We Don’t Really Know How Giancarlo Stanton Will Age

(Photo: Corn Farmer)
In the midst of a slow beginning to the offseason, the big slugger in Miami keeps hitting homers — at least when it comes to providing content. Even after I made the case for acquiring Giancarlo Stanton — particularly for a team like the Giants — and Craig Edwards pointed out how an opt-out lowers Stanton’s value, the NL MVP remains a source of inspiration. Because, while all of those posts regarding Stanton feature assumptions about his ability to produce years from now, none of them focus on how well or poorly he’ll age, specifically. How he ages, though, is super important to how one thinks about his contract. It’s a matter worth unpacking further, in other words.
Before we slice up the data to identify players comparable to Stanton, I thought it might just be interesting to look at the players who have aged the best and the worst since free agency began in 1974. To do this, I simply found all qualified players’ win totals before age 27 and compared those figures to their work after they turned that age.
The approach has some shortcomings that become more clear as you look at the players on the list, but it’s sufficient at least to sort players into two buckets. After removing active players, I took the top 35 by each sort to represent my worst and best agers. They represent the extremes, the top 5% in each case.
I wanted to see if any metrics specifically might reveal how these players age, so I used walk rate, strikeout rate, isolated slugging percentage, baserunning runs, and defensive runs to evaluate the two groups. I thought it would also be interesting to see how big and tall each group was, and how many games they averaged per full season going into their age-28 campaign.
Here are the two groups. And Giancarlo Stanton.
| Group | BB% | K% | ISO | BsR | Def | Height | Weight | Games/Season | WarDiff |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Bad Agers | 8.7% | 14.2% | 0.175 | 6 | 20 | 73 | 206 | 137 | 14 |
| Giancarlo Stanton | 11.8% | 27.7% | 0.286 | -3 | -15 | 78 | 245 | 127 | |
| Good Agers | 10.4% | 14.3% | 0.160 | 3 | 12 | 72 | 204 | 137 | -36 |
Good Agers = Bottom 35 by same metric.
Games/Season = Games per full season going into age-28 season.
Maybe the most remarkable thing about this form of analysis is how similar the two groups are. Both groups had above-average patience, contact, baserunning, defense, and power. There are a few differences, but they run counter to what you might expect, and don’t provide a good roadmap when it comes to Stanton.
Do the good agers have a better sense of the zone? They walk more! Stanton walks more. The good agers didn’t rely on power as much, though. Stanton’s best foot forward is his power. Is that bad? And while Stanton is no lumbering slouch, his speed and defense numbers don’t age up to either group… and it’s the bad agers who had better power and defense.
One thing you’ll notice as you go through the names on either list — here for your benefit — is that the poor agers often didn’t get a running start on their career. The fact that guys like David Ortiz, Jorge Posada, and Gary Sheffield had some trouble as younger player helped them by this analysis by suppressing their early career totals.
We could limit the pool to people more like Stanton, as much as that will kill the sample. Stanton is 14th among players since 1974 who had 4,000 plate appearances before they turned 28. Let’s look at the best agers in this bracket. Now we only have 53 in our sample, and we have to include active players or we’d really lose our comps.
| Group | BB% | K% | ISO | BsR | Def | Height | Weight | Games/Season | WarDiff |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Bad Agers | 10.6% | 17.8% | 0.219 | 10 | 28 | 74 | 223 | 148 | 22 |
| Giancarlo Stanton | 11.8% | 27.7% | 0.286 | -3 | -15 | 78 | 245 | 127 | |
| Good Agers | 9.9% | 12.8% | 0.165 | 16 | 47 | 73 | 199 | 151 | -18 |
Now the tide turns against Stanton. Better agers among players with 4,000 plate appearances before they turned 28 were shorter, lighter, played more games per season, made more contact, and relied less on power. But our sample of thousands has been reduced to 54, of which a good portion are still playing and can change the math on their particular baseball card.
And this is the problem with aging and comps in general. We can say, as Jeff Zimmerman has shown, that heavier players have aged poorly in the past, but do we know if that differentiates between the Adam Dunns and Pablo Sandovals of the world? Cal Ripken was once too big for his position, and he’s on our good list. Barry Bonds… well, now there’s another confounding factor when we try to analyze this sort of thing.
When you try to figure out how Stanton will age, there are as many different ways to attack the question as there are players out on the field, in a way. And while assigning each of his outcomes a likelihood is critical to how you much you want your team to go get him, it’s still a guessing game. Is he Paul O’Neill? Or Tom Brunansky?
With a phone full of pictures of pitchers' fingers, strange beers, and his two toddler sons, Eno Sarris can be found at the ballpark or a brewery most days. Read him here, writing about the A's or Giants at The Athletic, or about beer at October. Follow him on Twitter @enosarris if you can handle the sandwiches and inanity.
I dont know whether to criticize this article for saying nothing and lacking any real thesis, or compliment the article for being a very interesting and thorough read.
I guess I will do both.
The only reasons for not liking this article are (1) you think that how stanton will age isn’t an interesting question, or (2) you think this article is wrong,that it’s clear tjat stanton will age well. Or it’s clear that he will age well. I am no on both of these, so i like this article.
Compliment it because Eno recognizes there is nothing definitive to say, rather than trying to make the data fit a predetermined conclusion.
Good point. I will gladly take this nothing over an ESPN piece about how Giancarlo doesn’t hold a candle to Aaron Judge because Giancarlo doesn’t try as hard.
I think the biggest reasons for scepticism besides his size is his injury history. I know some of those were bad luck (like the face hit) but is there a history of players missing 30+ games several times until their mid 20s and then become durable for 5 plus years?
It doesn’t have to happen but I think betting on injuries to become less with age is often a bad bet.
However that is just gut feeling, are there studies on the stickiness of injury-proneness?
Btw I’m surprised that the word injury wasn’t mentioned once in the article, I do think if a player has 4 seasons with 40+ missed games at age 26 it should at least be considered.
In a sense, those two are the same issue. Conventional wisdom says that being 245 pounds as an outfielder doesn’t bode well for your hamstrings and knees.
Really though, the question of whether he’s actually prone to sharp decline or injury is not as important as this one: are you prepared to bet $285 million on it?
To your opening question, Paul Molitor comes to mind as someone who was very injury-prone in his 20s and very durable in his 30s.
That’s true, but Molitor was primarily a DH from age 34 on–over 1100 games.
Weren’t 2 of those seasons due to HBP?
Harper has had 3 seasons where he missed more than 40 games and he is only 24. I’d be just as worried as him. Teams that have the DH can worry less
I’m a little confused by the ending. Brunansky had a 5.6 BWAR when he was 21. He was never above 2.8 after that, and after 26 never above 1.9. Yes, he was a big guy but clearly his performance could imply he never had Stanton’s physical gifts, so why would we expect such a big dip for Stanton? O’Neill makes more sense.
you don’t need to eliminate “sparse” early career players entirely, just look at their full seasons.
It would be more work, but I really think this could change if you used BB+%/K+%. So normalize it to league levels. K% has gone nuts the past couple of years, so Stanton’s 27% is much less worse than it would have been in the 1980s.
One year per year seems virtually certain. Unless you know of plans to send Stanton on a near-lightspeed journey that no one else is aware of. (Or at least it hasn’t shown up on MLB Trade Rumors.)
I believe Bill James developed a theory many years ago that appeared to be borne out by the evidence that young position players with “young player” skills tend to age better, and young position players with “old player” skills tend to age worse.
The idea was that a young player with power and good strike zone judgment who was slow with weak defensive skills would decline more quickly, while a young player who was fast with strong defensive skills but did not necessarily have power or exceptional strike zone judgment was more likely to improve with age.
This makes sense if a certain minimal level of athleticism, speed, and defensive skill is necessary to keep you in the league (and give you to time to learn to hit major league pitching). The DH is an exception, but a DH has to be an exceptional hitter to have much value.
This standard would seem to place Giancarlo Stanton near the middle of the pack in aging curve, as he has some speed and some defensive skill. I think a more interesting question the article didn’t really speak to was how exceptionally large and powerful sluggers age. The 6’7″ Frank Howard had his best years well into his 30s, but that’s a sample of 1. Based on the title, I thought this article was going to discuss how a player of Giancarlo Stanton’s stature and athleticism has almost no historical comparisons.
I think Dave Winfield is a good historical comparison to Stanton in terms of size and athleticism. Winfield aged well as a hitter. From age 36-42 Winfield hit .280/.351/.473, 125 OPS+.
And Winfield’s defense declined such that, even with a very good bat, he was still only a 2 WAR player at that stage of his career as a DH/below average RF. (He had only 2 seasons out of 8 after age 35 that were 2+ WAR, but those seasons were worth 4 and 5 WAR).
That’s one of the top outcomes one could hope for.
The photographer has a great name
As with a conversation this summer speculating on the relative futures of Aaron Judge and Cody Bellinger, it may be helpful to look at big man comps for Stanton:
Dave Winfield – peak WAR – 7.8/age 29 – last 3+ WAR season – age 40
“Hondo” (Frank Howard) – peak WAR – 5.6/age 33 – last 3+ WAR season – age 35
Tony Clark – peak WAR – 3.3/age 26 – last 3+ WAR season – age 33
Dave Kingman- peak WAR – 3.7/age 30 – last 3+ WAR season – age 30
All in all they don’t age too badly since they still have power. The more athletic end of the spectrum, represented by incredible 3 sport athlete Dave Winfield, ages very well.
This article took the exact opposite approach I would have to investigate this question. I would have attempted to cluster players by body type, ISO, BB%, and BABIP, G/season(as proxy for health), and overall PA. Then I would’ve looked at which cluster Stanton belongs in, or the closest cluster to him. Then I would’ve compared aging curves for each of the clusters. I think that would’ve revealed some very different results. It’s a very similar methodology to the similar study that looked only at body type when projecting how Prince Fielder would age a few years back when he signed with the Rangers, and oft-cited when Panda was a free agent.
I linked to Zimmerman’s study on heavy players, so that approach is represented. I thought it would be interesting to take the opposite approach, which has a much higher ‘n.’ if you really focused on body type, you’d be looking at about five players that have looked like Stanton. Not sure that’s the best way to go either.
We don’t really know how anyone will age.
no one ever confused me for a risk taker, but i say that betting $200M+ on an athlete aging well into their mid/late 30s is probably not an enticing proposition.
How do you not adjust K and BB rates? 1974 was quite different than 2017. I am afraid this is biased in favor of an era that had more contact than todays and so Stanton becomes an outlier when compared to populations of both eras.
On this basis Babe Ruth has a huge contact hitter by todays standatds despite his K rate dwarfing those who played with him