We Tried Tracker Trade Deadline Edition: The Red Sox Win Again
A lot has happened in the past week. When times were simpler, back when the Phillies signed David Robertson three lifetimes and somehow only two weeks ago, I raised the possibility that we might bring back the We Tried tracker for the trade deadline. It wasn’t a sure thing, because the trade deadline isn’t really the time for We Trieds. They tend to happen over the offseason, when news is slow and multiple teams are bidding on free agents – which is why Robertson had so many reported suitors – rather than when teams are trying to swing trades. Loose lips can sink the many relationships involved in trades, and in the aftermath of the draft and deadline, everyone’s too busy to reach out to a reporter with an unattributed attempt to assure fans they made an effort. At least that’s how it normally works. This deadline featured a record-setting number of trades, and a surprising number of We Trieds to go along with all the actual action.
I’m sure I didn’t catch every We Tried, mostly because I spent the entirety of the deadline with my head down writing up transactions, listening to intense film scores in order to push me to write faster. I didn’t have much time to comb headlines and social media, but I did have help from some friends. I offer special thanks to readers JD, Elizabeth, Joel, and Fox Mulder Bat Flip for sending We Trieds my way. If you’re aware of any that I missed, as always, you can let me know on Bluesky or by email at WeTriedTracker@gmail.com.
Matt Trueblood of North Side Baseball (among other outlets) reported that the Cubs were “interested in” Kyle Finnegan. Mark Polishuk of MLB Trade Rumors wrote that the Cubs and Yankees both checked in on MacKenzie Gore, while Jon Heyman of the New York Post reported that the Padres “made a real run” at Gore, calling them “maybe the most aggressive pursuer.” Bob Nightengale of USA Today reported that the Twins asked about Christian Walker while negotiating the Carlos Correa deal. When the Yankees traded for David Bednar, Jeff Wilson of Rangers Today reported that the Rangers “miss[ed] out on a guy they’ve liked for a while.” Dan Hayes of The Athletic reported that four teams pursued Chris Paddack. The Tigers got him, while Heyman reported that the Rays were “also in on” Paddack, and Nightengale reported that the pitcher was “also being pursued” by the Yankees. Who was the fourth team? We may never know.
That’s a lot of effort. Keegan Matheson, who covers the Blue Jays for MLB.com, might have summed up the situation best. He wrote that the Jays “have been in on all of the big relievers who have moved (Duran, Helsley, Bednar), but everyone’s in on everyone. It doesn’t matter much.” That’s one recipe for a chaotic deadline: Everyone’s in on everyone. That said, as much as I appreciate the great job that Matheson does, I couldn’t disagree more about how much it matters. Some of us are in it for the love of the game. Some of us have read our catechism, so we know that a sin of thought is every bit as real as a sin of deed. You can keep your real transactions. Today, we’re interested in the heart of man.
There’s a crucial difference between a team being in on a player and the knowledge of that interest making its way to the public. The journey can happen in a million different ways, but that information changes the story. If it didn’t, neither reporters nor their sources would consider this whole practice worthwhile, and we’d have nothing to track. We can learn from We Trieds, and that brings us to the Red Sox.
Based on recent history, the Red Sox were widely expected to lead all of baseball in We Trieds over the offseason. Even though they did make a whole bunch of real moves, they still managed to exceed those high expectations. They blew every other team out of the water with 13 We Trieds. As it turns out, Craig Breslow and company weren’t done.
Leading up to the deadline, the Red Sox certainly looked like they were in position to buy once again. Our Playoff Odds had the Red Sox with a 60% chance of making the postseason. Only the Rangers, at 43%, were closer to a coin flip, which is to say that Boston was one of the two teams for whom upgrades could have made the biggest possible impact. The Red Sox had a big payroll. They had maybe the best assemblage of young talent to deal from. They had serious needs, with one of the worst backup catcher situations in the league, and injuries to their first baseman, second baseman, and too many pitchers to count. Lastly, they had the Rafael Devers trade hanging over them. If they miss the playoffs, this will go down as The Year The Red Sox Traded Their Best Player And Missed The Playoffs (Again). That’s a narrative no chief baseball officer wants on his shoulders. It seemed like a recipe for big additions, but it didn’t go down that way.
The Red Sox made only marginal upgrades, adding Dustin May’s 4.85 ERA to the rotation and lefty Steven Matz’s 3.38 ERA to the bullpen. Alex Speier of the Boston Globe made a keen observation after talking to Boston players about the underwhelming moves. “On Friday, they spoke — while complimentary of May and Matz — almost as if the deadline results were a layer of adversity they must overcome.” Said Trevor Story, “Like we’ve said all year, we know we’re a resilient crew.” Said Rob Refsnyder, “Ultimately, it doesn’t really matter what Bres did or didn’t do.”
Unsurprisingly, the Red Sox once again led the league in We Trieds. Ken Rosenthal and Jen McCaffrey of The Athletic reported that the Sox were “in the mix” for Eugenio Suárez. Jared Carrabis of the “Section 10” podcast “was told the Red Sox offered more for [Josh] Naylor than the Mariners did.” Rob Bradford of WEEI got confirmation that the Red Sox made various offers for Joe Ryan that included multiple top-10 prospects in the organization. Tim Healey of the Boston Globe had them linked to Dylan Cease and Merrill Kelly. Chris Cotillo of MassLive was told that the Red Sox were “in the mix but not aggressors” for Jhoan Duran. We may never solve the mystery of the fourth team in on Paddack, but we can rest assured it wasn’t the Red Sox. If they had been in on him, we would’ve heard about it.
The surprising thing was that the Red Sox didn’t just leave it there. Breslow has faced criticisms both from fans and prospective trade partners, and he went with a classic the-best-defense-is-a-good-offense approach. He invited manager Alex Cora into the front office to see what things were like on deadline day. He sought out players in the clubhouse in order to explain how and why he made the moves he did. He held a Zoom call with reporters on Thursday, appeared in the NESN booth during Saturday’s game, and met with reporters in person on Sunday.
“We’re happy with the guys we brought in, with Steven and Dustin, but we also pursued real impact players that we felt like could improve our team in ‘25 and beyond,” Breslow said during the Zoom call. “We were uncomfortably aggressive in trying to pursue them in the players we were trying to put into deals. Ultimately, it wasn’t from a lack of effort.” Breslow said every minor leaguer was on the table in trade talks: “I don’t think this was about an unwillingness to include guys or anything like that. Teams have to like our players in order for that to happen.” He reiterated that last sentiment during Saturday’s game, that other teams didn’t value Boston’s prospects highly enough to get deals done. This is way beyond getting a few We Trieds into the media. This is pushing a story.
That story seems simple enough. The Red Sox have their idea of what their prospects are worth, and they stand by it when a prospective trade partner disagrees, which (and this isn’t part of the story) seems to happen an awful lot. “It wasn’t from a lack of trying to be as aggressive as possible [or] from an unwillingness to get uncomfortable,” Breslow said. The obvious takeaway is that their conceptions of both value and discomfort may not match with those of the other 29 teams. The Red Sox really are trying. It’s just that they seem to be trying a little bit differently than the rest of the league, which means they end up committing a lot more sins of omission than sins of commission. And for reasons I’m not sure we’ll ever understand, they really want us to know about it.
If the four games since the deadline are any indicator, the Red Sox may also have the last laugh. They just swept the Astros, and then beat the Royals on Monday night, extending their winning streak to six games. This hot stretch pushed them ahead of the Yankees for the first Wild Card spot, dropped them to three games back in the division, and raised their Playoff Odds to 78.7%. No deadline deal is guaranteed to make a major impact, or even a positive impact for that matter, and the Red Sox could end up being the proof of that. They’re more or less rolling with what they had. It’s starting to look like it will work out just fine, but either way, don’t say they didn’t try to do more.
Davy Andrews is a Brooklyn-based musician and a writer at FanGraphs. He can be found on Bluesky @davyandrewsdavy.bsky.social.
I think Breslow is still learning how to be a GM at the trading/interpersonal level, but he seems to have a vision and path and is making moves and improving pieces of the team. Hopefully he keeps learning. I’d love Laurila to sit down with him this offseason and find out what he learned over the course of the year.
I would love to know a little more about how he views defense and versatility, given the earlier defensive woes.
I also want to know why Alcala is still on the team… there’s nobody in AAA better?
I think you may be right about the learning curve. His track record is pretty mixed so far but I agree that he has a vision and a plan, and I think he’s got an unusual combination of playing experience and analytical skill.
Right? Like it’s such a hard, weird job I don’t know how anybody could be really good at it off the bat, especially after doing a different job for 20+ years. It combines analytics, decision-making, interpersonal skills, public relations skills, and lots of stress. Every GM makes mistakes, hopefully they just don’t make the same one too often.
Breslow has done a lot of very good things, especially on the pitching side but his interpersonal skills are clearly bad.
Maybe it would be different if he worked for a franchise known for its stability but he doesn’t. He really should get some coaching on this and in the interim delegate a lot of the interpersonal stuff to other front office members who aren’t likely to quit or hang up the phone on him.
Even his record on pitching is mixed. Trading Sale was a disaster, Buehler hasn’t worked out, Giolito is good now but overall not a good signing, getting Priester was great, dealing Priester not so much last year’s deadline deals for Sims and Garcia didn’t work out, etc. etc.
Not that all of those were all Breslow’s fault, and he has some successes so far too. I’m cautiously optimistic but the jury is still out.
To me, the pitching development/pipeline is much more important than individual moves like that.
It’s clear their pitching infrastructure has improved quite a bit, especially in the minors. Only real dud there imo was bueheler. Giolito has been good, Priester/sale the process of moving was fine (and I don’t think Priester is this good, esp not in Fenway). Sale also wasn’t really even his. He came in and Sale hasn’t been good in years, was making 30mil on an expiring, and the 24 Sox were not supposed to be any good, so they got off the contract for a solid prospect. One of those moves were the process made sense, but results didn’t. To me, not maximizing Sale is more Bloom issue, than Breslow.
Breslow’s hits:
We’ll See or Neutral:
Bad:
I might be missing some moves but I think these are the main ones. On the whole, I’d say the guy is doing a great job!
I’d put the Sandoval and Giolito moves both in the hit column right now. And the Devers move.
I thought the Red Sox had a pretty experienced front office which has been together for a long time, throughout all the general managers.
Maybe? Eddie Romero is still there. He was very important in the signing of all of those great international prospects and he’s been around for something like 20 years.
But aside from him, I don’t know who is still around.
More importantly, they’ve been a total drama factory. The turnover alone is crazy. Cherington lasted about four years. Dombrowski lasted four years. Bloom lasted about four years. Francona’s departure was messy. Bobby Valentine was a disaster. Alex Cora quit rather than be fired after the sign stealing scandal, and then was rehired a year later once his suspension was up. David Price got in a feud with Dennis Eckersley. Trading Mookie Betts. Everything with Rafael Devers. I’m probably leaving things out, and some level of this is normal but not this much.
And then there’s the perception that the Red Sox don’t spend what it takes. Some and maybe even most of this is overblown, because Red Sox fandom has a…strong personality. But it is true that the Red Sox make more money than almost any team in MLB–definitely Top 5, potentially as high as #3– and seem to be extremely concerned with going over the tax line. John Henry usually doesn’t help that when he speaks. He is also known as one of the biggest hardliners in CBA negotations, along with Moreno and Reinsdorf (they almost derailed Manfred’s bid for commissioner). And there seems to be a problem with Kennedy and Henry overruling the POBO at various times, such as with Bregman.
Does this seem like a good place for a POBO who has communication issues? Maybe if he worked for the Rangers or Giants or Cardinals things would be a little easier for him. But this is a hard job!
They axed a lot of their long time scouts this off-season including those that were responsible for their top young players.
That stinks to hear
Having a big picture plan puts him ahead of a lot of executives, but I think it remains to be seen how well Breslow learns from his mistakes.
I thought that was the biggest problem with Chaim Bloom – he kept trying to master the small deals and gaining a fraction of an edge in every transaction. It works great when you can steal an occasional Wilyer Abreu in a trade or sign and fix a michael wacha, but there are too many missed opportunities and too much playing time going to bad players. I think it’s tough to recognize those missed opportunities as mistakes.
Hopefully Breslow’s big mistakes are easier to learn from than Bloom’s series of missed opportunities.
I think the Red Sox front office has imposed some pretty tricky limitations on both Bloom and Breslow. They seem extremely risk averse when it comes to the longer deals it takes to secure impact players. As a result, a big chunk of the payroll each year is taken up by short-term reclamation projects, especially starting pitchers. I don’t think it’s a coincidence that that practice has continued from Bloom to Breslow.
I see it very differently. What was the Devers deal if it wasn’t a long term deal to secure an impact player? I think they recognized it as a mistake and were able to get out from under before it was too late. With today’s signing of Anthony the Red Sox have 3 very important young players, Rafaela and Bello also, locked up into the 2030’s at what appears to be excellent value. Duran is under control through 2029. It is clear that signing young players on the way up is a much better approach than having to pay for past performance to aging players on the way down. It is hard to imagine handling the Xander Bogaerts and Rafael Devers situations any better than the Red Sox did. They understood Bogaerts, a great Red Sox player, was already slipping and not worth anything close to what he received from San Diego while getting some of Devers most productive years at a reasonable rate before the contract reaches its peak then relieving themselves of the end of the contract is exactly the right approach. Even if the return is nothing more than some empty uniforms, which unfortunately looks like it might be the case, Tibbs is already gone for May, yikes!, Hicks should be Designated tomorrow and Harrison has allowed 39 hits in 31 innings in AAA the money saved still makes the deal okay. I agree that the pitching plan is hard to understand but the reality is that every team is tearing their hair out trying to figure out what to do in a market that seems to have no solution. Sign Corbin Burnes, I don’t think so, or how about $67 for million for 3 years of Luis Severino, not with confederate money. I can’t believe that signing injured pitchers who won’t pitch for a year before finding out if their arms have been reattached successfully is a sound plan.
You got your wish, Alcala is gone. They needed another RH RP more than Matz unless they are moving Fitts to the bullpen asap. Can’t bank on Slaten given it’s a shoulder injury.
They replaced him with Isiah Campbell, so it feels more like a monkey paw curling…
I hope both Alcala and Campbell can turn it around. They didn’t make it to the big leagues without a lot of hard work.
Don’t be fooled by the overcompensation of Massachusetts electorate, there is a reason why certain good players want to go to nyc and not Boston
Maybe it will go down as the year the Red Sox somehow unloaded the Rafael Devers contract.
Red Sox fans would never remember anything like this fondly. Red Sox fans are like elephants, they hold grudges and never forget anything.
what are you talking about??? Red Sox fans are watching great baseball every night. This stretch pretty much started since the trade. I barely even remember Devers.
Really? Are you sure you’re a Red Sox fan? This is not my experience with them at all.
But it is great to hear that perhaps Red Sox Nation has a more positive outlook on life.
Maybe.
It’s been a fun ride but let’s not kid ourselves. We’ll all be miserable soon!
Yes, 100%. The main reason Devers gets brought up nowadays is to laugh at his stats in San Francisco; no one is still complaining about the trade.
I realize the Devers trade was mostly to dump a contract, but it is a bit funny that they just trade tibbs immediately
Yes, the team is good. The people you’re talking to must not be watching. 26-15 since the trade.
It’s more that the general Boston fan base is just much, much less engaged with the Red Sox than they were before Kennedy’s tenure.
I can get good seats to tonight’s game for $60.
I haven’t seen Celtics tickets that cheap in a few years.
Exactly. Everything they have done since the Mookie trade has lead to a lot of disengagement and frankly distrust. Not in the players but in team leadership . You can only say the same excuses for so long until people stop believing them.
1000%.
Just to add context to the Celtics thing – during the IT years, I could get playoff tickets for $40.
I can do more than repeat exactly what you said!
Hey! I am a Red Sox fan! And… um… you’re not wrong.
They’ve clearly forgotten 86 years of losing amidst all of their mindless complaining about ownership the past few years.
They’ve also clearly moved on from Devers.
Most of the Red Sox fans I have talked to seem OK with the Devers trade actually. I was very upset at first, but I can’t do anything about it, and the team seems to be playing well and having fun. Cora’s been able to mix and match lineups well.
More people seem upset that the Red Sox didn’t get Joe Ryan (though I think the price would be crazy for a year where we’re playing with house money). Maybe the Red Sox will try again for him in the offseason.
The piece that hasn’t resolved itself to me is the interpersonal side of things that allowed the Devers situation to get so bad, and I don’t know where that’s at now. Hopefully that was a learning experience.
If they keep playing well, the Red Sox may win the narrative and Devers will just be remembered as “the prima donna who refused to play first base”. Fair or not.
This is absolutely true – to a large portion of the fanbase, the trade will be viewed not based on how a person felt at the time of the trade, but rather on how the teams perform in the immediate aftermath of it.
And fair or not to pin these things entirely (or even largely) on Devers, the Sox have been mostly killing it since the trade, while the Giants have fallen nearly out of playoff contention.
As a truly bonafide, dyed in the wool Red Sox fan since 1948, that is, most definitely, the final memory I will have of Rafael Devers career in Boston
It’s kind of like the “Nomar was the problem in 2004” angle. It might be true, but the line didn’t become prevalent until after the fact. Sox make the playoffs and win a round or two, and the Devers was destructive internally will become gospel
Semi-related note: The moment at which I realized the Boston Red Sox held the city together was when I was on a T car and strangers were debating whether it was time to trade Nomar. It was passionate but civil.
It occurred to me that the only times I had ever seen strangers interact with each other in Boston without screaming or the threat of violence was when it involved the Red Sox.
(Or when it was, IDK, people taking orders at Anna’s Taqueria but those sorts of commercial transactions are different, and not all of them were free of screaming and threatened violence either)
“the prima donna who refused to play first base”.
That’s what he was.
who is she?
Finally some others are starting to see the reality of the Devers trade. It can be seen as a trade in which one team achieved addition by subtraction and the other suffered from subtraction by addition. The trade can be viewed as a strange combination in which one team, the Red Sox, was universally seen as weakening their present team and the other team, the Giants, was seen as significantly strengthening their club. Let us look at the records of the two teams since that fateful June 15th. Which side should I look at first? The Red Sox were floundering at 37-36 and have gone a snazzy 26-15 since, with absolutely no help from any of the players they received, while Giants were sporting a solid 41-31 mark. Their record since the trade is the exact opposite at 15-26 and Devers is barely performing at replacement level. Why is the obvious question and a possible answer might be that Devers was a growing problem throughout the organization and in the clubhouse. That is pure conjecture on my part but it appears that the club is now a tightly knit group with a couple of real clubhouse leaders in Bregman and Crochet. Devers was also blocking Anthony who has replaced him in the lineup with barely a bump in the road. It was my belief when the trade was made that Devers could not have gone to a stadium that was less conducive to his hitting approach. Fenway was perfect for his opposite field power and Pac Bell is just the opposite. That huge pile of money should be very helpful to the Red Sox in future contract negotiations and may be a Pujols type albatross around the Giants neck.
I don’t blame SF’s struggles since his arrival on Devers. But I absolutely think it was addition by subtraction for Boston.
Agree 100%. Getting rid of Devers clearly improved the clubhouse atmosphere. And even if you don’t put much stock in things like that, Devers has a not great contract. In my opinion, he had (slightly) negative trade value. He’s no Mookie.
Apparently the Twins wanted Jarren Duran for Joe Ryan, but for some reason that never came up. Probably because the Twins were busy dealing everyone else and they didn’t even bother pursuing something that seemed less likely with everything else going on.
That would have been a fair deal at the deadline IMO. Not totally sure in the offseason. It probably is fair but it is one less playoff run for the pitcher.
Joe Ryan for Duran maybe would have made sense on paper, but Jarren is such a key part of the clubhouse culture that it would probably feel like more of a slap in the face to Red Sox nation than the Devers trade. He’s the guy who got the home run Wally head made, always tries to turn singles into doubles, and makes great catches.
It would be a very cold, calculated trade, which wouldn’t help Breslow’s rep.
Okay, are they going to trade Abreu instead? He was the other name mentioned in the report, and he’s such a perfect fit for that right field there.
What about Roman Anthony? Is he just going to DH? He’s also +3 in the outfield.
Would they cut Yoshida to do have some of these guys play more DH? (Or swap him for an equally bad contract?)
Will they sit Rafaela occasionally against right handed pitching? You can sort of kind of have Rafaela and Abreu split time in a loose platoon, since Abreu is platoon only. You could have Anthony play LF and put Duran in CF on those days where you sit Rafaela, and Anthony in RF on days that Abreu sits. But it’s not a great idea to take Rafaela out of CF ever.
There’s about 2100 PAs to go around in the outfield in any given season. If you have Abreu in a strict platoon, he only would get 450 right? If you assume you’re only going to rest Duran and Anthony about 50 PAs worth, that would leave only 350 for Rafaela. Maybe if you assume all of Abreu, Duran, and Anthony get hurt for a little bit you can knock off another 150 PAs, that would only leave 500 for Rafaela. Which doesn’t seem like a lot, considering that he’s been the most valuable position player for the team this year overall (although Bregman probably would have been if healthy).
I guess that is doable, but it might be more doable if you cut Yoshida, so various outfielders can rest up on DH when all four are healthy. Makes it a lot easier when there is no primary DH, or the player who gets the most time there is also the backup catcher, or something like that. Like, IDK maybe Yainer Diaz or Ryan Jeffers.
Or are they just going to keep playing Rafaela in the infield? Because that is probably the worst idea of all.
Maybe they do something in the offseason? You’re right that there are a ton of outfielders right now (which is why I was OK with the May trade, even if it was an overpay) but so far it has been working, and they have been winning games.
I think they’re playing for next year, so they don’t really need to trade anyone from the major league roster at this year’s trade deadline. Plus, Ryan is a FA in 2028, so he could realistically be a part of the Twins’ plans for the next couple years.
Why rush, when you can ride the vibes of this season and think through some next steps based on how the year ends?
Imo the best way to split the playing time is Anthony/Duran/Rafaela/Abreu rotate between the 3 OF spots + DH
They would need to trade Yoshida, but that’s probably the best combo of versatility/depth
How much do they give up to trade Yoshida?
Probably have to pay down the whole contact. That or use him as a bench bat.
They aren’t going to trade Yoshida unless they trade for a player whose deal is $37M underwater.
And since Kris Bryant and Anthony Rendon are even more useless than Yoshida you can rule them out. Maybe Keibert Ruiz, but the main benefit of him is that his salary is spread out over a longer period of time.
I sincerely doubt the White Sox would be willing to trade Benintendi for him, since his deal is less than $37M in total. Or the A’s and Severino, since he still has some value and Yoshida doesn’t.
Maybe they can teach Anthony Santander to play first base?
They’re probably going to have to cut Yoshida.
Yoshida has 2/37 left on his deal, so it’s not so big which is a plus. Other plus is that he has hit RHP well which is nice skill and his projections are still nice.
If he gets back to hitting righties, I think they could find someone to take him for like… 2/20, maybe? If he doesn’t hit, it will be much harder and they might have to pay it down 90% or something
If he can bring his season line up to league average then he is probably in the range of what Tommy Pham signed for this past offseason. If not, he might not get a major league contract. I would be surprised if he had any value at all.
They’ll address the OF logjam this offseason. Probably by moving Duran then if they can’t dump Yoshida’s contract.
I can’t believe I’m saying this but I wouldn’t have screwed with the clubhouse culture this year by moving Duran for Ryan in season.
I think I can speak for most of Red Sox Nation when I say that we were in constant fear, bordering on terror, at the thought that Duran was going to be traded. You nailed it with your comment about his importance to the clubhouse culture. He is a joy to watch as he goes full throttle on every play and all true members of the clan love it!
Yeah, seems pretty fair, and if anything a good deal for the Red Sox. Duran’s really good but pitchers like Ryan just don’t become available often. I am curious, though, why they would want to acquire three years of Duran while dealing two years of their top starter. One seems like a win now move, the other a rebuilding move.
It seems fair, but why would MIN make the trade? Their goal seemed to be to cut payroll and build for 2027. This trade wouldn’t really fit the rest of their moves.
I wonder if they were anlso asking the Red Sox to take back Correa and his big contract.
Who knows? It’s entirely possible that the source in the Twins office wasn’t entirely in on the plan and someone higher up would have vetoed it.
I keep hearing this but it doesn’t make sense for the Twins to make that offer and it doesn’t make sense for the Red Sox to refuse so I have a hard time believing it.
I would argue this is because the sports media will not shut up about it. They have been pandering to the fan base for years by rage baiting about supposed front office incompetence. For a while it was just the Boston media, but the national outlets have also realized that bashing Sox ownership and GMs will drive engagement.
Breslow has done a good job and, provided he feels there is a good internal solution at 1B (likely), there was nothing wrong with his deadline. He could have aimed higher than May, but the price for better starters was inflated. There is a reason many of them did not move.
Thanks for joining the chat Mr. Breslow!
Breslow should buy a membership
He tried.
TBYSF!
Someone mentioned in the comments section that they are trying out The Password at 1B in the minors. Which would be amazing because they already have outfielders at 2B (a terrible decision) and DH, plus Campbell who is more likely to be an outfielder than not. And basically all of these guys are center field capable except Yoshida.
I am puzzled by teams that consider positions optional. Sometimes it works out but the Red Sox clearly have way too many outfielders and too few infielders and it’s crazy to me that this has persisted for this long.
There’s value in positional flexibility, but, not everyone is Ben Zobrist. The sheer number of reps it takes to be average at a position, let alone good is mindboggling. Some guys can cover it with athleticism, reflexes or just a deep understanding of the game, but most can’t.
I want Rafaela in CF full time, too, but using him at 2B may make more sense than it appears. Duran, for whatever reason, has much better in CF than he’s played in left. If that’s a real difference then having Anthony in LF and Duran in CF isn’t that huge of a downgrade from having Duran in LF and Rafaela in CF.
Also, it seems likely that Campbell is headed for 1B, not the outfield, right? He’s played 18 games at 1B, 10 at 2B, and 5 at DH since being sent down. Password hasn’t played any 1B yet.
The Red Sox should never have messed with what was working.
Rafaela as CF this season: 117 wRC+, 854 innings in CF at +17 FRV, 3.8 fWAR
Rafaela as 2B this season: -20 wRC+, 75 innings at 2B at -2 FRV, -0.5 fWAR
I don’t know what the plan is with Campbell. 1B is the only place where might have a spot to play on this roster. Which wouldn’t be bad at all if he can hit at a 120 wRC+ level.
He and The Password are the most obvious pieces of trade bait on this team.
I wouldn’t put too much stock in his 35 PA as 2B this year. Last year, in a much larger sample, he hit better as a SS than he did as an OF.
After Campbell proved beyond a reasonable doubt that he wasn’t a 2nd baseman, or a major league caliber player for that matter, earlier I have followed him closely at Worcester. He was at least as bad for the first six weeks then, starting on July 19th has gone on a tear that has lifted his average from .186 to .271 and is on a 13 game hitting. As far as trade bait goes the roster, as constructed, is a mess. Yoshida might as well be DFA. The four starting outfielders are all quality players. Duran is a star, even if his stats are down some. Rafaela is already a great defender, as is Abreu, and they both provide numerous offensive contributions with continued development very possible. So where does Anthony play? Rafaela should never play 2nd and when he does it keeps two good hitters on the pine in Gonzalez and Refsnyder. It seemed certain that a move would be made at the deadline but nothing happened of consequence. Mayer looks like he has what it takes and if Campbell gets back in the mix then The Red Sox should be in a strong position to pick up some pitching without damaging the lineup in the off-season.
Do we think Campbell can hit enough to support playing first base?
I didn’t like a lot of what I saw even during his promising first few weeks but he has put together a red-hot streak in Worcester so I am, as I always am, a believer in what, not how, and will wait and see if he has regained his ability to hit that he showed in 2024.
Maybe the athletes they tend to target as prospects are athletic enough that they don’t want to convert them to 1B until the last minute. I recall that Longenhagen has mentioned a few times now that the Red Sox backfields are full of defensive back types.
And given how their players with bigger frames have tended to turn out, health-wise especially, I don’t really blame them.
Not to mention they also have Romy Gonzalez, who really should be a 1B/DH short-side platoon bat, moonlighting at 2B here and there.
To be honest, what were they supposed to do? They were not trading Anthony, it’s good they didn’t trade Abreu/Rafaela bc their value only went up. Duran has a ton of control.
Plus, Casas/Campell was a perfectly fine right side of the infield to start the year… but Casas got hurt and Campbell struggled. Then Devers refused to play 1B. Then Mayer got hurt.
So unless they sold low on an OF, and/or were not willing to give PT to Casas/Campbell I’m not sure what the solution was
They have so many guys, so they need to play other positions to fit them in right now
Having too many good outfielders is what happens when Duran, who was seen as a flop explodes, a player like Abreu, a modestly ranked prospect, turns out to be so much more than anticipated and Anthony, a compensatory pick after the 2nd round, at #79, becomes baseball’s #1 prospect. I actually think this has happened very quickly and sorting it out isn’t as easy at it might appear. A quick look at the Orioles failure to build a team that would be strong for years out of what appeared to be a large stable full of top prospects makes that clear. My cynicism runs deep and I can’t resist a smug chuckle when Kyle Stowers turns out to be the best of the bunch even if a different Trevor Rogers has emerged from behind the curtain. The Red Sox look to be in a similar position as the Orioles were just a couple of years ago. I hope Breslow does a better job than Elias has done.
Breslow simply was unwilling to include outfielders from the big league roster in the packages that he was willing to include multiple prospects. That’s why The Joe Ryan Trade That Wasn’t, happened. There’s also speculation in other non-Ryan we-tried instances that teams asked for Abreu or Duran.
The Sox have played really, really well over their last 20 games or so. I’d like to say with Joe Ryan they’d be even better the rest of the way, but then again Jarren Duran has been hot during this run and a big reason why they’re swimming among the mixture of teams churning in the playoff blender. I wonder how close Bres was to trading the Password (who has legit star potential but is at a position of redundancy) or Arias (who is the prospect I’d be most reluctant to move)
The story I saw from Rosenthal said that the Red Sox didn’t include Major League outfielders in their proposal to the Twins, not that they refused to include them when asked. Are there sources saying that’s what happened?
Why would the Twins want Major League OFs when they are trading their ace and rebuilding?
If the OFs are off the table, Campbell would need to be headliner for Ryan, and who knows whether the Twins like him enough to make that move. Once you’re past him, the Red Sox aren’t going to have a package that nets Ryan, even with an interesting farm system.
The whole “we offered top 100 prospects” thing is weird to me. I mean, great, but that’s not going to get you Joe Ryan.
Also worth noting — the Twins aren’t rebuilding in a tear-it-down sense. They should have a good and deep rotation next year if they hold onto Ryan. They aren’t looking for a pile of prospects, and you can see that in some of their returns (Roden, Outman).
The ideal scenario for Twins fans would be a new owner coming in and supplementing that with some FA bats; it sure ain’t happening under the current ownership.
Top hundred prospects are usually what get these deals done, right? They gave up Teel and Montgomery plus two other pieces for Crochet.
What I’m asking is whether they were off the table or not.
My point is team-specific: I don’t think that’s what the Twins were or are looking for if they move Ryan.
For the White Sox, sure — they stink right now and need as many bets on prospects as they can get.
The Twins, despite their fire sale, aren’t in the same spot. They moved expiring deals and relievers, they have a good rotation and a bunch of holes on offense to fill, and believe they can build a bullpen.
To your question — based on the reporting it doesn’t sound like the Red Sox seriously engaged on deals with Duran, Abreu, or Anthony involved.
All four of the Red Sox major league quality outfielders carry significant value. Anthony is untouchable, Duran, who survived the deadline, is playing at his 2024 level, or even better, Rafaela, already with 4.1 bWAR, has too much potential to be traded so that leaves Abreu. He brings Gold Glove defense, one of the best and most accurate arms I have seen, along with big power. There should be plenty of ammo for Breslow to use to get some real value in return this winter.
I bet the twins were trying to package Ryan with correa, without paying down Correa’s contract.
They may have asked for Abreu. He’s on a pre-arb deal and under control longer than Duran. That would fit with what they seem to be doing.
During a chat with Ben he said the Red Sox should have accepted the fact that they couldn’t get fair value for Abreu and included him in the package for either Ryan or Keller. Very reluctantly, because I love Abreu’s game, (last night’s throw is the reason why) I agreed and thought Abreu, along with a top prospect, Arias or Garcia, should have been enough. Breslow didn’t appear to agree. At least they didn’t trade for Alcantara.
Toronto was determined to not be mentioned in this article like their AL East brethren and perhaps overpaid in several deals at the deadline to make sure it didn’t happen.
I think Boston did well to avoid that. Their roster is weirdly constructed, sure, but they have a ton of talent, and selling low on that talent just to balance the roster would be shortsighted.
Yeah, it’s better to have too much talent than too little
Unfortunately until they allow a team to play 11-13 men at the same time it becomes advantageous to give up excess. but blocked, value for something tangible in return even if that return is not comparable to what is sent away. This is where the Red Sox are now with four very valuable outfielders while having to send Buehler out there every fifth day.
They have been lucky on the injury front. Younger guys tend to get injured less, but it isn’t out of the realm of possibility that 2 starting outfielders are on the IL
Breslow seems like a rigid thinker. I can be a rigid thinker, so maybe I’m projecting.
As a Guardians fan, I would love for them to be at least mentioned in one of these We Tried articles instead of them holding on to all of their prospects until they run out options and 40 man space.
Guardians are the store-brand version of the Brewers. Brewers are forever churning out 2.0-2.5 WAR guys, but with Cleveland it’s 1.5-2.0 WAR guys. It makes a surprisingly big difference. Guardians really need to try a few consolidation trades because their never ending stream of below average regulars is not getting them anywhere.
At least they are trying…supposedly…
-Signed, Pirates fans
I’m sick and tired of all these baseball articles linking to the catechism….
So, four teams were in on Paddack. That means the Tigers were the only ones willing to help the Twins salary dump by taking on the HUGE 3 million dollar contract of Randy Dobnak. That meant that the Twins received a much lesser prospect in return, which puts the lie to their statement that these trades weren’t about getting rid of salaries.
Just putting a note here that with all the high fives going around for getting rid of Devers, doing practically nothing at the deadline, and getting a great streak going with surprising output from a variety of previously condemned players… let’s revisit all this in a month. I think the lack of added support over the trade deadline bites them, whether it be before the playoffs or in the first round.
It’s going to bite them no later than the moment they have to play a game 4.
The thing is we have a bunch of good prospects in the AAA. Campbell if he reincarnates to his April level, Mayer if healthy, Tolle who’s the same height as Crochett and has untouchable fastball, Sandlin throws 101 mph from the pen, the power hitting Password at 1B or OF.
They WILL be our deadline additions. Other teams don’t have this many young players nearing the MLB so they had to overpay in the deadline trades.
“was told the Red Sox offered more for Josh Naylor than the Mariners did”
That’s interesting. Wonder what it was.
Still should have bought O’Hearn.