What If Patrick Corbin Were a Trendsetter?

To whatever extent people are concerned about the slow free-agent market, it didn’t have any meaningful effect on Patrick Corbin. After his breakout 2018 season with the Diamondbacks, he signed a six-year contract with the Nationals worth $140 million. That value is more than twice as high as the next-biggest free-agent deal, and while two players will eventually blow the Corbin contract out of the water, he did well for himself, considering it wasn’t that long ago that he lost his spot in the rotation.

Think about the lessons one might learn from the Corbin experience. Very generally, one might observe that perseverance pays off. There’s also the understanding that the market pays for ceilings, even in the presence of risk. Corbin is something of a risky pitcher, but he also just pitched like an ace. Teams love that. Can’t get enough of it. And now, think about how Corbin pitched like an ace. There could be a lesson buried in there, as well. And it’s a lesson that, at least in theory, could alter the course of player development. Patrick Corbin might inspire a new trend.

I haven’t thought this all the way through. I haven’t had conversations about this with dozens of pitchers. This is only an idea, and maybe it’s a *bad* idea, but Corbin inspired it, because Corbin did it. There’s no one single reason, of course, why Corbin just pitched as well as he did, but I wrote about one thing a month ago. Most importantly, Corbin stayed healthy throughout. But there was a conspicuous change to his approach. Corbin basically gave up on his ineffective changeup. To take its place, he introduced a slower breaking ball. It was a breaking ball he liked to throw in the zone; it was a breaking ball he liked to throw early in the count.

Certain pitch-trackers identified the new weapon as a curve. There’s nothing unique about a fastball-slider-curveball lefty — you might look at teammate Robbie Ray, or you might look at, oh, I don’t know, Clayton Kershaw. But Corbin’s new pitch was different. It was clearly slower, but in terms of its movement patterns, the slow pitch looked like his regular, dependable, swing-and-miss slider. To put it another way, Corbin didn’t quite throw a new pitch. Rather, he threw a variation of a preexisting pitch. A pitch he liked! A pitch he’d thrown well forever.

What was Corbin’s secret to unlocking the slower breaking ball? Here’s an excerpt from an article by Todd Dybas:

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Enter the curveball. In essence, it’s just a slower slider. The speed gap — about nine mph — couples with an arm angle and release point that directly mimics his slider. He doesn’t even change the grip. Corbin just twists his wrist ever so slightly to slow the pitch and change its shape to the plate, providing a heftier vertical break.

And here’s an excerpt from an article by Nick Piecoro:

So that breaking ball – does he call it a curveball? A slow slider?

“I don’t know,” Corbin said. “I don’t really know what it is. It’s the same grip (as the slider). It’s just something else. Sometimes I’ll throw it harder or slower. I just mix speeds with it. It’s like two pitches. When I’m locating my fastball inside, too, it makes that pitch much better.”

I’ll say that this concept isn’t even brand-new. We’ve heard from pitchers like Rich Hill that they like to try to add and subtract from their curveball, so that it’s not always the same pitch every time. Changing speeds. So much of pitching is about changing speeds. But Corbin didn’t wind up throwing his slider on a gradient this season. The slider became two distinct pitches, and both of those excerpts above indicate he didn’t so much as change his grip. There was just a very subtle arm-action adjustment, and Corbin had something that worked in place of a changeup. He had a third pitch to throw to righties. He had the different look he’d been searching for for so long.

Here is an image of Corbin throwing a hard slider at 82 miles per hour:

Here is an image of Corbin throwing a slower slider at 76 miles per hour:

From what we’re able to see, these images are very similar. Now let’s make them move! Here’s Corbin throwing the slider at 82:

And here’s Corbin throwing the slider at 76:

It would be convenient to have a selection of videos from high-speed cameras placed in center field. I don’t have those videos. These videos took long enough to track down. We can’t identify every single little detail. But, we can consider it a given that Corbin is using the same grip for both pitches. We know the pitches move in very similar ways. The slower one just drops more, mostly on account of gravity. The slower one is slowed down by just the slightest little flick of the wrist.

Here’s where I’m trying to get to with this: Corbin had trouble developing a reliable changeup. So, eventually, he came up with a workaround. Robbie Ray also came up with a workaround a few years back, but that was by bringing back a curveball he’d kept in his back pocket. Ray reintroduced a different pitch. Corbin modified his second pitch. He’d always loved his second pitch — the slider had always been his best weapon. We hear so often about how pitchers want to have three pitches, especially if they want to be starters. But guys commonly run into trouble trying to find a good changeup. Guys commonly run into trouble trying to find a good curveball. Among secondary pitches, the slider is king:

Nearly half of all pitchers last season threw a slider at least 20% of the time. Pitch usage is a pretty good proxy for pitch quality, or for pitch confidence. You don’t throw a slider 20% of the time if you don’t think your slider’s any good. There are so many pitchers floating around the minors, or floating around in major-league bullpens, who throw a fastball and a slider. They’re held back by the lack of a third pitch. According to baseball convention, those pitchers try to learn changeups. If that fails, perhaps those pitchers try to learn curveballs. But what if those pitchers were to follow in Corbin’s footsteps? What if some number of fastball/slider pitchers simply tried to throw a second, slower slider?

There’s no guarantee it would work. There’s no guarantee anything would work. Pitching is hard, a lot harder than 2018 Patrick Corbin made it look. But I think the big selling point here is that Corbin kept the same grip, and almost the same arm action. At least intuitively, it seems like it would be easier to modify a slider than to try to learn a changeup or curveball. It all still takes time and repetition, but for a fastball/slider pitcher, the slider grip and release ought to be familiar. Then you just try to learn how to slow it down by 5-10 ticks. It seems to me like a worthwhile experiment, because if we’re going to have this flood of guys showing up throwing sliders like half of the time, they might as well see what else they can do. There’s no shortage of professional pitchers who like to throw sliders. So maybe you start from that foundation, instead of trying to force what’s traditional.

A few weeks ago, Tyson Ross rather quietly signed a contract with the Tigers. Tyson Ross has been pretty good when he’s been able to stay healthy. Health is always priority No. 1. Can’t do much without it. But thinking about Ross for a moment — he’s always leaned very heavily on his slider. At its peak, it was one of the best sliders in baseball. But Ross has never really had a good third pitch. He hasn’t had success with a changeup or cutter. And so lefties have hit him far better than righties. Now, it’s possible, if not probable, that Ross just isn’t going to learn a third weapon. Again, this is all much tougher than it seems when it’s written in a paragraph. But what if Ross attempted a second slider? A slower slider, using the exact same grip? It’s the same grip he’s always trusted. There would just be a little wrist turn at the end. Hardly something to notice. What if it worked? What if it were easier to pick up than a changeup or a cutter?

Everyone’s idea of pitching is different. Everyone’s fingers are different. Some guys eventually learn their third pitches. Sometimes those pitches are great. It’s just that, by way of Patrick Corbin, a light has been shined on another path forward. The changeup is there, if you can learn it. The cutter or curveball is there, if you can learn it. Lots of guys have already learned sliders. They just might not have learned how much can be done with them. Corbin found out. So did his opponents.





Jeff made Lookout Landing a thing, but he does not still write there about the Mariners. He does write here, sometimes about the Mariners, but usually not.

21 Comments
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BFR44Member since 2025
7 years ago

Jack Flaherty for the Cardinals pitches with his 4 seam and slider a lot like this, but from the right side.

Mark Davidson
7 years ago
Reply to  BFR44

But his curveball is pretty different from his slider, at least by the fact that he uses a no-seam knuckle curve grip

merizobeach
7 years ago

Sometimes the obvious isn’t actually obvious until the first guy points it out.

On another, much more well-trodden topic, Jeff continues to be the foremost reason why I come to this site.

Jetsy Extrano
7 years ago
Reply to  merizobeach

And just one of these eye-opening looks has to pay off to be worth eight figures. Some jerkass team is going to hire Jeff and that’s the end of an era.

pilldomMember since 2024
7 years ago

You mentioning Tyson Ross has me thinking of Joe Ross now. Will be interesting to see if Corbin can give him a hand in developing a second slider. Much like his brother he is limited right now by the fact he only has two pitches. One of those pitches just so happens to be a wipe out slider though.

jfrank12
7 years ago
Reply to  pilldom

This was a smart thought.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
7 years ago

The other trend I think we’ve been seeing: Guys coming back with cutters. Marco Gonzales was on his way out of the league before he came back with a cutter. So was Anibal Sanchez, and Sanchez dropped his slider altogether. I think getting creative with the slider is one thing we might see, but I wonder if pitchers are feeling like cutters are something they can pick up.

mbs2001
7 years ago

Carlos Rodon did this throughout college and into the minors because he had such good control of his sliders break and velocity ( 70+ was the lowest grade). The problem was this was all he threw and with him being in his early 20s with injury concerns and some discomfort, the Sox pushed him towards a changeup.

After arthroscopic surgery in his throwing shoulder this off season he came back in June and felt healthy for the first time since sophomore year in college. A month after being activated he gave up 2 runs or less in 8 out of 9 starts (the other he gave up 3). If he hadn’t gotten rocked in his last 2 starts his era would be low 3s, and he still ended up with 2.0 WAR in 20 starts.

Rodon has one of the best sliders in baseball and seems like a guy who could benefit from the “trend” that Corbin took to another level.

Good stuff Jeff.

Jetsy Extrano
7 years ago

Hands up if you can pick up a thing he’s doing with the wrist? Better eyes than me.

What are the mechanics whereby a tweak like that slows it down so much? Makes me appreciate how hard it must be to perfect the mechanics in the other direction for your last 3 mph.

CampingJosh
7 years ago
Reply to  Jetsy Extrano

My guess would be that Corbin’s added wrist action simply limits how hard he is able to flick his wrist at release. That would make the velocity change much more repeatable than if he’s simply trying to take something off of the pitch.
But that is just a guess. I can’t see anything from the gifs.

Kyle Sharamitaro
7 years ago
Reply to  Jetsy Extrano

I watched at least 10 times… I can’t see anything

Sn0wman
7 years ago

I’m not picking up the different wrist action, but it does appear to my eyes that the harder pitch leaves more directly from his hand, while the slower one leaves somewhat more above the hand. As Jeff said, the angles aren’t perfect, and I may be seeing something that isn’t there, but if not I’d guess that’s the immediate, right out of the hand effect of the wrist action.

Trotter76Member since 2018
7 years ago
Reply to  Jetsy Extrano

I’m no pitching coach, but to my eyes the hard slider has a hard downward press on the seams (tight spin), while the soft one he seems to spin it more with less pressure, giving it more of a hump rather than a wipeout. I’d be interested to see the spin rate on these two pitches. I’d think the hard one would have significantly more RPMs.

Mark Davidson
7 years ago
Reply to  Jetsy Extrano

No matter what pitch you throw, your hand will pronate. In the curveball video, there is an ever slight resistance to the pronation. Maybe resistance isn’t the right word, but there is an effort to supinate in there that is absent in the slider video.

I think.

Kyle Sharamitaro
7 years ago

Great idea Jeff! I can’t say I’ve thought of it this way, and now that you have laid it out such as you have, I don’t know why we didn’t think of this before!

Dominikk85Member since 2020
7 years ago

Maybe Josh hader does it and wins the CY:)

OddBall Herrera
7 years ago

I think this implicates the work on tunneling Eno Sarris (and I’m sure others) have been doing, in the sense that you get a great deal of benefit from pitches that look the same yet behave even slightly differently, even if said pitches individually aren’t particularly elite.

Pesach
7 years ago

Jeff, how can you write a whole piece on Corbin without mentioning his historically low percentage of pitches in the zone?

TheGarrettCooperFanClub
7 years ago

jeff sullivan: one of the very best

Llewdor
7 years ago

Changing speeds on what it otherwise the same pitch is hardly new. Jamie Moyer threw his changeup and all kinds of different speeds (all slow, but many different slows).