Where the Cubs Go With Jorge Soler

There’s not a single thing the Cubs need to do. They’re outstanding right now, and at a time when people can still buy Christmas presents without expedited shipping, the roster could be considered complete. Probably, the Cubs will come out of this offseason as NL Central favorites. From there, they could remain favorites, but I don’t want to spook any fans who might’ve become increasingly superstitious.

The Cubs could be considered complete, and in right field, they line up to have a 24-year-old Jorge Soler, a player they control through 2020, a player who, in 2014, was one of the three best hitters in the minor leagues, alongside two current teammates. Soler is dynamic and exciting and the sort of player any team would love to have in the system. Yet these rumors persist, trying to send Soler elsewhere. There’s enough smoke you sense there might be a flame: Soler might be on the move any day now. The Cubs would probably prefer a bit more certainty. Which means there are the potential makings here of a major trade.

This is going to be a big year for Soler, no matter where he’s playing. The facts of the matter are these: he had a better 2014 than 2015. He’s unusually powerful and unusually strikeout-prone, and he could head down some very different paths. In the regular season, somehow, he was out-slugged by Tommy La Stella. Then he reached in his first nine plate appearances of the playoffs. Soler can look like different players on different days, and because of the power and whiffs, he’s one of those boom-or-bust types. Teams lose their patience as those players get older. Peak Soler could reach as high as Giancarlo Stanton. Perhaps he resembles Matt Kemp or Marcell Ozuna in certain ways. And the downside looks like Dayan Viciedo. One year from now, Soler could have a lot more value, or an awful lot less.

He’s under control for a long time. Before this past season, he was the Baseball America No. 12 overall prospect, between Noah Syndergaard and Miguel Sano. It would be reasonable to think of Soler as still a prospect, with similarities to Javier Baez. Perhaps it’s not a coincidence both Soler and Baez have been included in countless trade rumors. Might be they’re not the Cubs’ kinds of players. Might be the Cubs like them fine, but think other teams might like them more. The Cubs could prefer less risk, and they obviously want to win right now.

I want to focus on where Soler could go. Again, one route is he goes nowhere. If the Cubs don’t trade him, he’s the right fielder, and he’s talented, and that’s the path of least resistance. If they decide they like his upside enough, he could bat 500 times, and he could break out. I don’t know if this is the most likely course, but I do know it’s the least interesting to discuss in December. What’s more interesting? Trades! Not so much trades like this:

You Aren't a FanGraphs Member
It looks like you aren't yet a FanGraphs Member (or aren't logged in). We aren't mad, just disappointed.
We get it. You want to read this article. But before we let you get back to it, we'd like to point out a few of the good reasons why you should become a Member.
1. Ad Free viewing! We won't bug you with this ad, or any other.
2. Unlimited articles! Non-Members only get to read 10 free articles a month. Members never get cut off.
3. Dark mode and Classic mode!
4. Custom player page dashboards! Choose the player cards you want, in the order you want them.
5. One-click data exports! Export our projections and leaderboards for your personal projects.
6. Remove the photos on the home page! (Honestly, this doesn't sound so great to us, but some people wanted it, and we like to give our Members what they want.)
7. Even more Steamer projections! We have handedness, percentile, and context neutral projections available for Members only.
8. Get FanGraphs Walk-Off, a customized year end review! Find out exactly how you used FanGraphs this year, and how that compares to other Members. Don't be a victim of FOMO.
9. A weekly mailbag column, exclusively for Members.
10. Help support FanGraphs and our entire staff! Our Members provide us with critical resources to improve the site and deliver new features!
We hope you'll consider a Membership today, for yourself or as a gift! And we realize this has been an awfully long sales pitch, so we've also removed all the other ads in this article. We didn't want to overdo it.

The Cubs’ current focus is on trades for relievers, according to major-league sources — not high-end types such as the Yankees’ Andrew Miller, but middle-inning and setup options who would provide additional depth.

More like trades like this:

If the Cubs were to trade Soler, most likely they’d get either a center fielder or a starting pitcher with 3+ years of control. They’re comfortable enough with the idea of Jason Heyward playing center, hence his acquisition, but there’s some risk in paying a guy a lot of money and then moving him up the defensive spectrum. It’s time to speculate, with an incomplete list of targets. Emphasis on incomplete. These are some of the names that could make sense for Chicago.

One fit you might think of right away is Cleveland. They’re looking for outfielders, and both Carlos Carrasco and Danny Salazar are under control five years. But there are issues: Soler might not be their type, and Carrasco and Salazar have recently been much better, and the need is more for a center-field type. Baez might make more sense as an Indians target, as he could theoretically move to center. Any package for Carrasco or Salazar would need to be steep, given what Shelby Miller fetched.

Tampa Bay has a few options. Jake Odorizzi has four years of control. Alex Cobb has just two, and he’ll miss a lot of 2016. Matt Moore has options through 2019, though he’s disappointed. Drew Smyly has three years of control; Erasmo Ramirez has four. Here, Baez might again be the better fit, as the Rays have a full outfield, but they’re not necessarily set at DH. You could see an attempted deal for Odorizzi, but as with the Indians, you wonder if Soler is the Rays’ type. If he doesn’t hit for consistent power, he’s not much of anything, and with power comes relatively steeper arbitration prices.

It might get more interesting if you look at the White Sox; Soler might be more their kind of player, and Jose Quintana is controlled five seasons. Soler for Quintana, obviously, couldn’t work straight up, but if the White Sox like Soler’s foundational skills, then he’d be a centerpiece. The problem for the moment is the White Sox have a full outfield, with Avisail Garcia in right. Garcia might be too similar to Soler; there’s big raw talent, and a lack of consistent results. Maybe that would scare the White Sox off.

When you get to the Braves, you think about Julio Teheran, who’s been the subject of countless trade rumors himself. Teheran could fit in a few ways: he’s shown good talent before, and he could be controlled through 2020. Yet Teheran took a big step back last season, and has major problems against lefties. Teheran, right now, is less exciting than Soler. He was still probably the better player in 2015, but Teheran might not be enough of an improvement for the Cubs to see something as worthwhile.

Now shift perspective and think about center fielders. Yeah, the Cubs could just sign one, like Denard Span. Absolutely. But that’s boring, as far as this post is concerned, so imagine some potential trades. There’s the possibility of a fit with Boston, who has Jackie Bradley, but also Mookie Betts. Bradley has the same amount of control as Soler does, and you get the sense the Cubs would believe in Bradley’s defensive metrics. If the Red Sox are still willing to think about moving Bradley, the Cubs could sell a player big on tools. This can’t be dismissed, unless the Red Sox just think they’re done.

A bold maneuver could see the Cubs try to sell Soler to the Reds for Billy Hamilton. In this exchange, the Reds would have to give up something extra. Again, Hamilton is a plus center fielder, but the Reds wouldn’t mind trading him for a power bat, as they have needs almost everywhere. It’s pretty hard to see past Hamilton’s awful offensive performance. The Cubs could conceivably tolerate it, with their strength elsewhere. They could bat Hamilton ninth and let him accumulate his value in center and occasionally on the bases. It wouldn’t be an immediately popular move, but it would be a fascinating move.

And through all this, I’ve ignored the obvious. The obvious move: Ender Inciarte. The Cubs seem like they’re in contact. It’s apparent they’d trust Inciarte’s defensive numbers, and since the Braves aren’t about to contend, they could deal with playing Michael Bourn until Mallex Smith were to arrive. This move would bump Hector Olivera back to third base, but the Braves right now don’t have a real third baseman. Inciarte, like Soler, is controlled through 2020. The Braves probably like Inciarte fine, but they might drool over Soler’s potential.

There’s another way it makes sense: as a defense-first player with a lot relying on his legs, Inciarte has arguably peaked. He might never be more valuable. Soler is a bat-first player, still a prospect in a way, and he’s still looking to get to his ceiling. Though both outfielders are young and talented, Inciarte fits the Cubs better, while Soler is a better match for the Braves’ timeline. Of course there’s no guarantee Soler hits, but Inciarte needs to be an elite defender if he wants to continue starting long-term.

Inciarte would require more than Soler, but maybe not by all that much. The Cubs have prospects they could stomach dealing, and Inciarte would introduce to the lineup a contact bat, lessening the overall strikeout-proneness. That’s something that greatly hurt the Cubs in the NLCS. An issue, without question, is that Soler is right-handed and Inciarte is left-handed, and such a swap would make the Cubs awful lefty-heavy. But they’re not completely left-handed, and they play in a right-handed division, anyway. Handedness is one of the last things to worry about.

The main draw of acquiring Inciarte is that it’s like indirectly adding a starting pitcher. Let’s say that Heyward is a +15 corner outfielder, and a +5 center fielder. Let’s also say that Soler is a -5 corner outfielder. Now let’s say Inciarte is a +10 center fielder. The Heyward/Soler combination, by these numbers, would come out to an average defensive value. Meanwhile, Inciarte/Heyward would be +25. That’s 25 runs of run prevention, which is like the difference between a decent starting pitcher and an ace. It doesn’t have the same individual-game effect as an ace, but it looks the same over a regular season, and it helps the back-end starters and middle relievers. Trading for Inciarte isn’t just about trading for a different skillset. It’s about reducing the runs allowed, with maybe only a slight reduction in runs scored. The Cubs are going to score a lot of runs.

I don’t know what the Cubs are going to do, and I don’t know what the Braves are demanding for Inciarte in addition to Soler. Maybe they’re asking too much, and maybe because of that, this just can’t work. Maybe the Braves don’t love Soler as much as you could think. The Cubs, thankfully for them, have no shortage of options to explore. Including keeping Soler for themselves. As I said at the beginning, they’re awesome, as I write this. They don’t need anything. They could use upgrades, though. And the more I think about Inciarte, the more I like it for both sides. Some people root for players. Some people root for teams. Right now, I think I’m rooting for a trade.





Jeff made Lookout Landing a thing, but he does not still write there about the Mariners. He does write here, sometimes about the Mariners, but usually not.

82 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
cornflake5000
10 years ago

I know projections show the Cubs having one of the better rotations, but I’d feel a lot better if they could add a young #3 with #2 upside. They have enough depth to get through the regular season, but we saw what happens when you only have two dependable starters. Arrieta really tired down at the end. Lester can be run on. I get not spending $200m on another starter, but they have the resources to make sure depth is not a problem.

Dave
10 years ago
Reply to  cornflake5000

“I know projections show the Cubs having one of the better rotations”

Really? I think they have a ton of questions and the potential for things to go very wrong. Age, middling back end, Arrieta shot all his bullets last year, etc.

cornflake5000
10 years ago
Reply to  Dave
CircleChange11
10 years ago
Reply to  Dave

I agree with Dave.

As a Cardinal fan, the Cubs starting rotation is what gives me hope that the Cards can still win the Central.

Not that the cardinals don’t have concerns. But, Arietta isn’t going to put up another season like last year (duh) and they will experience more injuries than last year (again, duh), and if a few things go against them like W-L in 1-run and/or extra inning Games, bullpen regression/volatility, then you can see where they want to add quality depth.

StL survived a ton of injuries last year and and thrived due to depth. Not that the Cubs copy everything the cardinals do (before someone suggests that’s what I am saying), but I’m sure it illustrated to teams in the central how you can survive injuries with depth.

We heard a couple of years ago that StL might have too much pitching. Ha. Well, you do until you don’t. The atrition rate is pretty high.

Drew7
10 years ago
Reply to  CircleChange11

I feel like STL has (so far) a lot less depth in the rotation than The Cubs.

circlechange11
10 years ago
Reply to  CircleChange11

I’m not saying I don;t have concerns with StL’s starting rotation. There’s legit concerns, pretty much top to bottom.

Tom
10 years ago
Reply to  CircleChange11

Funny but I just had a conversation like this on twitter. Both of us are cub fans. He was doing the old ws is ours thing. I pointed out to him my worries about pitching injurys and depth. Of course he is young and way to confident to actually know.
I guess I will have to give him another 30 yrs to understand it is not that easy. We do have a hole still. We do have to hope to have some luck again in 16. Oh well.

cornflake5000
10 years ago
Reply to  Dave

By the way, did you read my *whole* comment, or just the first line?

Dave
10 years ago
Reply to  cornflake5000

I did, and ANY team would benefit from a “young #3, with #2 upside”. The Cubs may not get that however. I’m not saying the Cubs won’t be very good, their lineup is insane and will score enough runs for them to win a lot of games. But, if I was a Cubs fan I would be a bit worried that the rotation won’t hold up their end of the deal.

cornflake5000
10 years ago
Reply to  cornflake5000

Dude… that’s what I said… I read elsewhere on this site that they projected to have one of the top rotations, but I felt better if they added some depth. I watched as they rode two starters (with Arrieta struggling) through the playoffs and felt like they needed to add two guys. Lackey is nice depth, and they may not need an ace, but I do feel like they need to add a talented guy. If they’re not going to buy one, with their resources, they have the talent to give up what it costs to get a younger guy. My whole entire point was that I didn’t think they had enough.

cornflake5000
10 years ago
Reply to  cornflake5000

I’d like to apologize if my comments are coming off as bitchy. Wasn’t my intention.

recovering pedant
10 years ago
Reply to  cornflake5000

It turns out you probably should have left off that initial phrase. What you appear to have intended as conciliatory appears to have been misread by others as your premise, which unfortunately led to them not reading your comment because they assumed they would disagree with you. Ah, communication. Next time, we’ll all do better.

UpNort
10 years ago
Reply to  cornflake5000

Reading Comprehension for teh win!!??!!?!?!

Desert Rat
10 years ago
Reply to  cornflake5000

Would it make more sense to see what Schwarber can fetch? He did have the better showing last year, and has obvious struggles in the OF. He should be able to fetch a young starter who can be a difference maker. Or is he basically untouchable?

Chill
10 years ago
Reply to  Desert Rat

I gotta think he’s untouchable. He hit a pair of post season homers out of the building!!! Neither of those moon shots was his farthest of the post season! That was reserved for the missile he launched off Matt Harvey. Holy Cow!!! He’s 23. He might still stick at catcher, at least as a personal caddy for one of their starters ( if I was in the Cubs rotation I would beg Maddon to pair me with Schwarber. Sit back and watch the laser show:). I think Schwarber is probably as close to untouchable as they come. Maddon loves versatility. Theo loves winning in the post season, especially with mighty lefty power bats leading the way. My guess is that Schwarber is staying.

Jason B
10 years ago
Reply to  Chill

I think Schwarber would be eminently moveable for the right price, his value may never be higher than it is now (like Inciarte). He may get exposed somewhat after some more exposure, and I’m not sure that “poor OF/possible C” would qualify as being versatile.

I don’t intend that to say that I’m totally down on him, think he sucks, etc., just that there is some downside or bust potential there.

Daniel
10 years ago

I think the Cubs and Braves match up well for a bigger deal. Soler+Baez for Inciarte+Teheran. Maybe add a lesser prospect to even things up.

jdbolickMember since 2016
10 years ago
Reply to  Daniel

I think Soler is plenty for Inciarte, but if the above rumors are correct that the Braves want more, adding Teheran and Baez swings the trade wildly in Chicago’s favor. Frankly I’m surprised that the Cubs are pursuing Inciarte given that he’s hopeless against left-handed pitching.

Rangers
10 years ago
Reply to  jdbolick

I fail to understand why the Cubs would trade Soler straight up for Inciarte; let alone “Soler plus” for Inciarte.

Soler had a 147 wRC+ in his rookie season. Obviously a small sample size, but he has rare raw potential. Inciarte seems to be a good defensive player with below average hitting/average base running (perhaps below average considering his age/position).

Hollywood Hills
10 years ago
Reply to  Rangers

“I fail to understand why the Cubs would trade Soler straight up for Inciarte”

ˆTHISˆ

I would want the whole package the Braves just brought back for Miller except they can keep the pitcher and I would substitute Tehran.

Dansby Swanson, Inciarte and Tehran for Soler.

Anyone who doesn’t see that as a correct trade should be watching football. Soler is a monster talent.

Put Schwarber behind the plate. Mike Piazza couldn’t catch, but he did for most of his career.

L. Ron Hoyabembe
10 years ago
Reply to  Rangers

I liked you more when you were wailing about felony fraud.

BFChris
10 years ago
Reply to  Rangers

Are you serious?

No way Soler fetches Sawnson/Teheran/Inciarte much less straight up. For that kind of package … it’d be Soler/Russell/Contreas/Baez.

Cubs are the ones asking, Braves have a commodity Cubs want. Cubs pay what Braves want or no go.

Nate
10 years ago

What about Odubel Herrera? The Phillies, like the Braves, fit more with Soler’s developmental timeline, and Herrera is roughly an equivalent player to Inciarte. Plus, the Phillies have a surfeit of defensively-gifted CF prospects, so parting with Herrera wouldn’t hurt all that much, especially given Soler’s potential.

Timber
10 years ago
Reply to  Nate

I was thinking something similar, although I think a deal based around Baez makes more sense for the Phillies. The problem?…Herrera is a Rule 5 pick with BABIP inflated offensive stats and only one year in CF to judge defensive value from. It might take another year of similar production to prove he is more than a flash in the pan.

here goes nothing
10 years ago

I’m sitting tight if I’m the Cubs. Why not wait it out? You’ve got a team that is looking pretty good. If Soler is a wild card, I think they have the cushion now to wait and see what he’s worth. Not that I’m not a fan, but Inciarte seems much more likely to have peaked already. The Jackie Bradley Jr deal might make some sense to me from both sides though.

Chill
10 years ago

Well said. I agree that the Cubs can and likely should be patient at this point. I also agree that JBJ/Soler makes some sense for both teams for a lot of reasons. As a sox fan I would very much miss watching JBJ play defense. He’s a treat to root for.

cornflake5000
10 years ago
Reply to  Chill

Ok, you can keep JBJ, we’ll take Betts.

WerthlessMember since 2020
10 years ago

Hamilton, Inciarte, Herrera… a 2-3 WAR CFs
Soler, projected at 1.2 WAR, with significant variance

What is being described, in an OF for OF exchange, is a trade that lowers variance. That is not what a large payroll organization generally does, but a small budget organization already in contention may do that. The Cubs can afford to play this lottery ticket, and then just pick up an OF mid-season if it’s not working out. Steamer agrees that the future values of Inciarte and Herrera are not certain, either.

Yes Soler might be viewed as a prospect, but he’s a prospect that has struggled for a full year at the MLB level. A prospect who has struggled for a full year is worth less than a prospect in AA who has hit at every level, and still has full team control. Soler has 1 less year of control, and a full year of replacement-level play under his belt. I doubt that Soler fetches any near-elite starter like Carrasco, Quintana… and even Odorizzi would be a stretch IMO.

The offensive bar is high at the corner outfield position if the player does not field the position well, nor add value on the bases. I think the Cubbs would do well to trade Soler for a 3 WAR CF, but they may find that the market is not nearly as robust for him as it was last year. Teams seem to be valuing defense more.

Jaguaretepo
10 years ago
Reply to  Werthless

While the offensive bar is high for corner OF, Soler has fought off injuries throughout his career (one of the major criticisms of him), and 2015 was no exception. If he can manage to fix his nagging injury issues (which the Cubs have already addressed by changing his workout regime, for one) Soler could prove a very valuable commodity.

Saying a player has hit at every level is one thing, what Soler did in the minors (in limited play) was downright unfair. He hit on par with Bryant, which is really saying something. And while he has been rightfully criticized for his play in RF, he still has a very dangerous arm. There are just so many tools, and the Cubs are the perfect team to take a chance on the high upside.

state the obvious
10 years ago

im for someone in center other than heyward. because whoever is in center will be shading left a ton with schwarber out there, a plus defender in center and elite defender in right means they can actually stomach schwarber out there everyday.

Kevin
10 years ago

What about swapping Soler for Rusney Castillo? Both guy stock is down quite a bit, and are under control for a long time, but have very different skillsets. Castillo can move to CF for CHC where he probably belongs, reducing the need for his bat to be anything other than decent. Soler can move to LF in Fenway where his bad D shouldn’t be as much of a problem as it would in RF.

Big difference between the two is Castillo is older and more expensive. Who is the more valuable player between them, right now? Which team says no?

Chill
10 years ago
Reply to  Kevin

I think the Cubs say no. Castillo really hasn’t shown much in the show yet. He has shown flashes and some defensive metrics like him, but color me skeptical. He’s owed a good chunk of money, he’s not young by any stretch and he too has been beset with nagging injuries. I think the jury is still out on how Rusney profiles as a major leaguer. The same is true of Soler, the difference being that Soler’s advantages, youth and power, can’t be taught. I think Soler is far more valuable than Castillo at this point. From the rs perspective I would love this trade. From the Cubs perspective not so much.

Brett W
10 years ago

Kiermaier?

jonkkMember since 2016
10 years ago
Reply to  Brett W

I’ve thought a trade with TB that nets Kiermaier and a SP (Cobb or whomever) would be pretty sweet.

Jross
10 years ago
Reply to  Brett W

No way. Dumb proposal

Stan
10 years ago

Royals need an OF that isn’t expensive. Wondering if there is a match there?

However the Royals only depth is in the bullpen, and the Cubs have a nice little thing going there already.

state the obvious
10 years ago
Reply to  Stan

no, because dyson would have to be going back to chicago in that scenario, or ventura, both are win now teams.

ShauncoreMember since 2019
10 years ago

Why would the Royals trade Ventura for Soler straight up?

Meanwhile Dyson for Soler would be swell for KC as the Royals are 100% committed to not using him in a full time role. He’s essentially a late-inning replacement/pinch runner. Dayton Moore has mentioned giving Dyson more time but we’ll believe that when we see that as he’s kept a 3-win player (Dyson) on the bench previously.

state the obvious
10 years ago
Reply to  Shauncore

i never said they would, those would just be the only 2 players on the royals that would interest the cubs. sal perez as well obviously but that would take them moving montero.

state the obvious
10 years ago
Reply to  Shauncore

obviously more pieces each side as well i should add, like dyson and herrera for soler and hammel.

That Guy
10 years ago

The Cubs would spin circles for Dyson. As would most MLB teams.

ShauncoreMember since 2019
10 years ago
Reply to  That Guy

It only takes one team and on GM to stupidly undervalue an asset…

Chris K
10 years ago

As the article kindof obliquely notes, I look at Soler and see almost no daylight from Avisail Garcia, yet the former is valued as some manner of valuable trade chip while the other is at risk of being outrighted. Similar age, similar solid offensive production in the minors, similar poor defense notwithstanding plus tools, similar inability to do much in the Show. Soler walks a little more, but strikes out more, too. They’re wash baserunners. I really don’t know what the Cubs can expect to get for him, but if the market seems to value him as highly as everyone seems to think it does then they’d be right to trade him ASAP.

If the White Sox proposed Avi as the basis for a Carrasco trade people would be laughing their faces off. And rightly so.

state the obvious
10 years ago
Reply to  Chris K

garcia is older and never really had his power show in game ever. soler also draws more walks. add in the fact that soler really does hit the ball hard, check last years exit velocity’s

DrunkenSuperman
10 years ago
Reply to  Chris K

That seems to come from only looking at statlines. Scouting has been much more optimistic on Soler, one only needs to look at their historical prospect rankings.

Kloo
10 years ago

Watching the Cubs all year I noticed that Soler and Addison both made major adjustments with their swings. Before the All Star break they were both getting their front foot down too early and spinning off the ball. If you watch Soler’s swings in the postseason you can see a slight leg kick that puts him in a much better position to hit. With that being said Soler still has health issues but his swing seems to be figured out, he absolutely mashed in the postseason and next year should be his coming out party.

Kershawshank Redemption
10 years ago

Does anyone else find it surprising that the author feels Inciarte > Soler straight up?

state the obvious
10 years ago

no, right now inciarte is the better player by a wide margin, soler has the potential to be a monster but is not atm and they both come with the same control, inciarte will also be cheaper thru arb as his skillset isn’t payed as highly that way.

cornflake5000
10 years ago

When the Cubs signed Soler they gave him a 9 year MLB contract, his numbers are set… Enciarte will cost more once he reaches arbitration.

The Dude
10 years ago
Reply to  cornflake5000

There’s a weird clause in his contract that allows him to opt into arbitration once he reaches enough service time that he would be eligible if he was a normal prospect, which will happen after the 2016 season.

cornflake5000
10 years ago
Reply to  cornflake5000

Did not know that, thanks!

YoYo
10 years ago

Inciarte is a good fit, but the front office might still have belief in Albert Almora. In fact, Almora has put up the same kind of numbers as Inciarte did in the minors, while being roughly 1.5 years younger than Inciarte at each level. Almora is reportedly a + or ++ defender in CF, so they may already have a guy that can fill in as early as 2017 (or even 2016 with injuries to the MLB team). This reduces the attractiveness of Inciarte and gives the Cubs another year for Soler to build up his trade value.

jdbolickMember since 2016
10 years ago
Reply to  YoYo

Almora is definitely getting lost in the shuffle. I long argued that he was overrated back when billed as a top prospect, yet the Cubs really only need an above average glove in center who won’t be a disaster at the plate. Whether or not he can achieve that remains to be seen, but the fact that he’s better against left-handed pitching works in his favor given the lineup’s weakness there.

j
10 years ago

Maddon takes advantage of platoon splits as much as anyone. Getting a right handed hitting defensive CF like a Jake Marisnick, accepting the strike outs that accompany, will eliminate most of the overall defensive concerns without costing an upper end prospect.

The Soler for Inciarte trade only happens if expanded to add Teheran to the Cubs and more pieces to the Braves.

Drew7
10 years ago

As a Cubs fan, it seems weird labeling Soler a high-strikeout guy – he ran rates routinely in the high-teens/low 20’s in the minors (along w/ >10% BB). He always seemed to separate himself in that way from Baez/Bryant.

Ben G
10 years ago

I say keep him at least until the trade deadline at least or maybe another year. By then they’ll know what they have in Almora and if they need a CF at all in the first place. Also, Soler could build some of that trade value back up

The Dude
10 years ago
Reply to  Ben G

Or, just as likely, Soler ends up a bust, and the Cubs will never get a significant return from him.

ANMCASTRO
10 years ago
Reply to  The Dude

Power arms bust more often than hitting. Injured also. Have we not forgotten Mark Prior, Kerry Wood, Andrew Cashner. 3 foolproof power arms. 2 were injured all the time and Cashner despite all his great stuff never developed into the pitcher he should have been because some guys have great stuff and never learn how to use it pitch properly. Let’s not be fools and rush in to the world of fragile power pitching. If we do, let us proceed with caution. Soler is only making $3 million. If he were a free agent today, he’d bring home a lot more than that. A first cheap 30/100 RBI threat shouldn’t be traded away for the latest power pitching flavor of the month.

state the obvious
10 years ago
Reply to  ANMCASTRO

the RBI line doesn’t matter, he is a potential 30 homer bat but has not shown that much in game right now, more liners than long fly’s. there are plenty of guys with 60+ raw.

state the obvious
10 years ago
Reply to  The Dude

not just as likely, him busting would just not be improving at this point, hes still above replacement level. that being said there is a chance that happens.

Mike
10 years ago

Braves need to shed 2 from 40-man roster (note Flowers and Bonifacio still have yet to be added). So I look for the Braves to package some deadwood from their 40-man (Swisher, etc) in a deal w/ the Cubs.

fjtorres
10 years ago
Reply to  Mike

Inciarte and Swisher (at full cost) for Soler plus low A pitcher? 😉

Might even make some sense for the Cubbies if Maddon can squeeze some value out of Swisher.

TKDC
10 years ago
Reply to  fjtorres

The Braves are only paying $5 million for Swisher. And I really don’t see them being able to effectively use that $5 million in 2016 so they should want to maximize return.

E L
10 years ago
Reply to  Mike

The Cubs are looking to contend and don’t have room for other teams’ deadwood on their 40 man.

The Braves might be hopped up enough on the return on Miller to expect a similar heist in each deal, but if both sides of Soler-Inciarte believe the other should be the one to kick in extra assets to make the exchange even, no deal is going to happen.

The Cubs are under no pressure to make a deal and thus don’t have to overpay.

ANMCASTRO
10 years ago

Keep Soler until the trade deadline. Some team will overpay for him then because you’re correct, the Cubs don’t “need” to do anything. Thus, far St. Louis is only worse and the Pirates best hope is to sign Scott Kazmir. The Cubs, as they are now, are still better than both those teams. The Cubs only lost the division by less than a handful of games. If they had Bryant, Schwarber, and Baez up for the full season then they probably would have overtaken the Cards and Pirates. If they had had John Lackey, same could be said. The Cubs don’t “need” to do anything until the deadline when they can decide if they want another arm for the playoffs and during the deadline is when some team will overpay.

Also, let’s STOP calling all these names being thrown around “young.” I think it’s pure silliness how a player is “young” at 28 and “old” at 30. Sorry but logic and hard truths cut both ways. Tyson Ross is 28 and will be 29 in April- 1 year from “old.” Carlos Carrasco is 28 and will be 29 in March- 1 year from “old.” The only guy who intrigues me a little bit is Danny Salazar who has amazing stuff yet reminds me of Kerry Wood/Matt Garza 2.0

Hitting and good hitting is expensive and rare. Young power arms waiting to get injured or bust are much more common. I wouldn’t trade Soler unless I’m absolutely blown away by some desperate team at the deadline.

Adam S
10 years ago

As I Cubs fan, I hope they sit tight. I think you’re selling low on Baez and Soler at this point. I agree from a trade Inciarte > Soler. I think Soler is the better player over the next two years not to mention what happens after that.

Baseball Guy
10 years ago

I could see Soler being sold for Charlie Blackmon, then the Rockies using Soler in RF for when they trade Cargo for pitching. Lots of moving parts, so probably won’t work, but theoretically makes sense.

state the obvious
10 years ago
Reply to  Baseball Guy

lol, blackmon is going sideways not up, and that assuming soler doesn’t really improve.

JonnySquid
10 years ago

As a Cubs fan I must agree with the Cards fan a a thing or two. Toe to toe the Cards have a better Starting 5 than the Cubs. However we all know that Starting 5 will be different in 6-8 months.

As a cynical Cubs fan they did get REALLY lucky with injuries last year. So now that they’re the “favorite” Arrieta will need TJ around June, Lackey will disappoint, Heyward, Rizzo or Bryant will go down and the Cubs will be what they always are…the Cubs.

But here’s another option for the Cubs: wait on another SP or CF until the season THEN trade. The buy low philosophy of Theo works well, and has proven to find talent with SP at the most unlikely of places.

By doing this the Cubs COULD get a better deal by opening up more opportunities during the season to teams that may not be sellers right now. Plus I find it hilarious when we write off prospects such as Soler. I wouldn’t trade Soler. He MAY be another Viciedo…but I think it’s much more likely he grows into his swing and abilities more and be ones more of a Cespedes. We get so jumpy when someone doesn’t pan out to become Bryce Harper or Mike Trout @ 21 or 22.

The Cubs WILL have injuries. Keeping Soler and Baez would add depth and flexibility and and in season bargaining chip as well. Plus they could see how Heyward works out in CF.

cicero sonny
10 years ago
Reply to  JonnySquid

Johnnysquid, you make a lot of sense.I am a long suffering Cub fan. I really like what Theo is doing. I really hope he reads these ideas.One thingthat irks me is the phrase “with that being said.” is really someone who has no idea what to say. And with that being said (lol) i will shut up and listen to you guys.

Footroo
10 years ago

I know it would be to a division rival, but what about trading soler to the Brewers for lucroy? The crew clearly isn’t going anywhere this year and the Cubs could certainly use lucroys skill set this year and next. Seems like a win win to me.

E L
10 years ago
Reply to  Footroo

Trading Soler for Lucroy recreates a hole in CF/RF and creates a playing time logjam at catcher with Montero/Lucroy/Ross/Schwarber that would make it difficult to get full value, while also blocking Willson Contreras. There’s no match there from the Cubs’ side.

RoyHobbs
10 years ago

If you’re the Cubs and are talking with the White Sox, why not see where a Schwarber for Sale trade goes? Sure, cubs fans will go apeshit over this thought. But 2 things, you have to give up something valuable to get something valuable, and Schwarber belongs in the AL as a DH anyway.

Richie
10 years ago
Reply to  RoyHobbs

Cub fans would go “apeshit” over trading Schwarber for Sale?!? Wow. I didn’t think any fanbase could be THAT stupid.

Greg
10 years ago
Reply to  RoyHobbs

I’m a Cubs fan and I would trade Schwarber plus my left testy for Chris Sale.

Jason B
10 years ago
Reply to  RoyHobbs

Yeah they sure would go “apesh!t” but not the way you think. It would be “HOLY COW WHERE DO WE SIGN DO IT DO IT DO IT”

(as you can already see from the first two responses)

cornflake5000
10 years ago
Reply to  Jason B

Do it now!!! I’d even throw in some more so it it doesn’t look like the Cubs are robbing them.

Yinka Double Dare
10 years ago
Reply to  RoyHobbs

Uh, the fans that would go apeshit over that are the Sox fans. A conversation about Sale would start with Bryant. Schwarber plus Soler or Baez probably doesn’t even get you Quintana.

Eric
10 years ago

The Cubs are not going to trade Jorge Soler for Inciarte. Never gonna happen. Soler has middle of the order power potential. Inciarte is a good fielder who has a future as a platoon outfielder.

Chill
10 years ago

It’s incredible how Inciarte was regarded when folks were parsing the Shelby Miller trade compared to now as he is discussed in a hypothetical Cubs trade. A week ago Inciarte was worth more than Miller. Now he is a platoon outfielder who has peaked defensively. Hmmmm. I think the goal posts are moving.

Vladimir Putin
10 years ago

This article is a provocation.

osfib
10 years ago

Jose Quintana has proven to be an elite SP; whether you look over the past 2 or 3 years, he ranks 9th in fWAR among SPs. The White Sox have 5 years left of control at a ridiculously low salary.

Rick Hahn should get fired if Soler was the centerpiece of the return package for Quintana.