Will King Felix Reach Cooperstown?

Felix Hernandez appears unburdened by his legacy in this freely available image.
(Photo: Keith Allison)

Felix Hernandez’s 2018 season got off to a rough start, as he was drilled on the right arm by a line drive in his February 26 appearance against the Cubs. The Mariners say he’ll miss just one Cactus League start, but on the heels of two subpar, injury-shortened seasons, M’s fans can be forgiven for curling up into the fetal position.

Hernandez took the hill just 16 times in 2017 due to shoulder bursitis and was lit up for a 4.36 ERA and career-worst 5.02 FIP; his 17 homers allowed in 86.2 innings was more than he served up in four of his eight 200-plus inning seasons. His 2016 campaign, which was shortened to 25 starts by a right calf strain, featured a less-than-inspiring 3.82 ERA and 4.63 FIP, as well. His recent decline probably owes something to eroding velocity. Via Pitch Info, his four-seamer has averaged around 91 mph in the past two years, down from a high of 96 in 2008 and 93.6 as recently as 2014. The story is similar for his sinker. He’s not missing as many bats as he used to, and his home-run rate is soaring along with those of just about every other pitcher in baseball. In short, he looks more peasant than king.

All of this was on my mind when a reader brought up Hernandez’s chances at reaching the Hall of Fame in my March 1 chat. In recent months, I’ve written several times about the progress towards Cooperstown of several active and recently retired starting pitchers, including those who took the hill last October (Zack Greinke, Clayton Kershaw, CC Sabathia, and Justin Verlander), the late Roy Halladay, and 2018 BBWAA first-time candidate Johan Santana, with coming candidates such as Mark Buehrle, Tim Hudson, and Andy Pettitte in the mix, as well. Within those discussions, Hernandez has often seemed like an afterthought — though, to be fair, the soon-to-be-32-year-old righty has generally been the youngest pitcher in the discussion save for Kershaw.

Those discussions generally center around my JAWS (Jaffe WAR Score) system. For the uninitiated, JAWS uses a player’s career Wins Above Replacement total — the Baseball-Reference version, which is based upon actual runs allowed, rather than the FanGraphs version, which is driven by FIP* — and his seven-year peak total to compare each candidate to the players at his position who are already enshrined. A player’s JAWS is simply the average of the two numbers, while the positional standards are the averages of the Hall of Famers classified at the position (a classification based on value, not games played, and so Ernie Banks counts as a shortstop, etc). You can read about the system, which I’ve been using to analyze Hall of Fame balloting since 2004, in more detail here.

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*As I’ve said several times since joining the FanGraphs fold, JAWS will continue to use B-Ref’s version of WAR (I’ll call it rWAR here) as its basis, as has been the case since the 2013 election cycle, and will refer to B-Ref’s normalization metrics (OPS+ and ERA+) as well so as not to mix apples and oranges. B-Ref’s exemplary handling of JAWS has made for a great partnership, and given the volume of Hall-related coverage I have in circulation from SI.com and my book, The Cooperstown Casebook, I have no desire to (further) confuse anybody wading into the waters of advanced stat-based Hall of Fame analysis.

Before turning to the advanced stats, let’s consider the basics. Hernandez, who arrived in the majors at the tender age of 19 in 2005, has a career won-loss record of 160-114 with an ERA of 3.20 (125 ERA+) and 2,342 strikeouts in 2,502.1 innings. He’s got six All-Star appearances, two ERA titles, a Cy Young, and a pair of second-place finishes in 2009 and -14. He’s never pitched in the playoffs, as the Mariners now possess the longest postseason drought in the major North American team sports, having not played in an October series since 2001.

Hernandez scores just 69 on the Bill James Hall of Fame Monitor, a metric that gives credit for awards, league leads, milestones, and postseason performance — things that have historically tended to appeal to Hall voters. A score of 100 indicates “a good possibility” of making the Hall of Fame, and understandably, Hernandez isn’t there yet. It’s worth remembering that, among post-World War II starting pitchers, only Sandy Koufax has been elected without reaching 200 wins, and he had a lot more going for him than most pitchers in terms of “the other stuff.” His five ERA titles, four strikeout titles, three Cy Youngs, and World Series dominance crunch down to a 227 Hall of Fame Monitor score, which ranks 15th all-time and outdoes several 300-game winners, including two-time Cy Young recipients Tom Glavine and Gaylord Perry. (Both score 177.)

As for the advanced metrics, here’s a look at the current Hall standard for starting pitchers (of which there are 63, including the just-elected Jack Morris), as well as the top active and recently retired candidates:

Active and Recently Retired Pitchers
Name Career Peak JAWS Yrs W ERA+
AVG HOF SP 73.5 50.0 61.7
Roy Halladay 64.7 50.6 57.6 1998-2013 203 131
Clayton Kershaw 59.4 48.7 54.1 2008-2017* 144 161
Zack Greinke 60.7 46.1 53.4 2004-2017* 172 123
CC Sabathia 61.5 40.4 51.0 2001-2017* 237 117
Justin Verlander 56.6 43.5 50.0 2005-2017* 188 124
Tim Hudson 58.7 38.4 48.5 1999-2015 222 120
Johan Santana 51.4 44.8 48.1 2000-2012 139 136
Andy Pettitte 60.8 34.1 47.5 1995-2013 256 117
Mark Buehrle 58.5 35.8 47.1 2000-2015 214 117
Cole Hamels 54.0 38.4 46.2 2006-2017* 147 124
Felix Hernandez 52.4 38.4 45.4 2005-2017* 160 125
Roy Oswalt 50.2 40.1 45.1 2001-2013 163 127
Max Scherzer 45.6 41.7 43.7 2008-2017* 141 127
*Active

Hernandez’s 52.4 rWAR ranks 97th all-time among starters, ahead of just 13 in the Hall of Fame. Obviously, he’s got a chance to build upon that if he stays healthy, but of bigger concern from a Hall standpoint is his very modest peak score, which is tied with Hudson and Hamels for the 111th best in history and better than just 12 enshrined starters. Besides his 7.1-rWAR Cy Young-winning 2010 season, he has just three others above 5.0, fewer than post-1969 non-Hall of Famers such as David Cone (seven); Rick Reuschel (six); Kevin Appier, Kevin Brown, Mark Langston, Bret Saberhagen, Dave Stieb, and Oswalt (five apiece). That the last of his 5.0-rWAR seasons was in 2014 and that the last of his seven peak seasons was in -15 (4.4), both rate as concerns. In the past two years, he’s totaled just 2.4 rWAR.

To have a solid shot at a Hall of Fame berth, Felix has to get back to pitching at an All-Star level for a few years. A trio of seasons of exactly 5.0 rWAR would supersede his lesser peak seasons of 4.7 (2012), 4.4 (2015), and 3.9 (2007), pushing his line to 67.4/40.4/53.7. That JAWS would rank 62nd all-time, still ahead of just 20 of the 63 enshrined starters. With a few solidly productive seasons after that, Hernandez could approach or surpass relatively recent BBWAA selections (emphasis on the word relatively, as I’m going back to the 1980s) such as Don Drysdale (56.0 JAWS), Juan Marichal (57.5), and Jim Palmer (58.7), by which time he’d probably have surpassed 200 wins and 3,000 strikeouts.

In pondering the remainder of Hernandez’s career, one has to wonder about the mileage that he’s put upon his arm and the rest of his body. With the help of the B-Ref Play Index, I found 23 post-World War II pitchers who tossed at least 2,500 innings through their age-31 seasons, of whom two (Hernandez and CC Sabathia) are active. The other 21 pitchers averaged 1,106 innings from age 32 onward, with nine of them pitching their way into the Hall of Fame — all with at least 957.1 innings or more in that second leg of their careers (Bert Blyleven, Steve Carlton, Fergie Jenkins, Greg Maddux, Juan Marichal, Jim Palmer, Robin Roberts, Tom Seaver, Don Sutton).

What stands out about that list is that only Maddux pitched after 1992, the dawn of a high-offense era during which starting-pitcher workloads have been significantly reduced. In fact, Sabathia and Hernandez are the only other post-1992 pitchers worked so hard in the first legs of their careers, and while the former has totaled 752.2 innings from age 32 onward (he’s heading into his age-37 season), he’s been a slightly below-average pitcher during that span, with a 96 ERA+ and a total of 6.6 rWAR, most of it concentrated in the last two seasons after a stretch marked by injuries and underperformance. Sound familiar? Sabathia has at least come out on the other side, with a gaudy win total. (He trails only Bartolo Colon (240) among active pitchers and has 49 more than the next active player, Verlander.)

Now, I don’t care much about pitcher win totals, but they do figure quite prominently into Hall of Fame voting. Since the 1991 election of Jenkins, the writers have elected just three pitchers with fewer than 300 wins — namely Blyleven (287 wins, 16th in JAWS), Pedro Martinez (219 wins, 21st in JAWS), and John Smoltz (213 wins, 58th in JAWS due largely to time spent as a closer). In December, the Modern Baseball Era Committee added Jack Morris (254 wins, 164th in JAWS; don’t even get me started). Still on the outside looking in are Mike Mussina (270 wins, 28th in JAWS), Curt Schilling (216 wins, 27th in JAWS), and Roger Clemens (354 wins, third in JAWS, lagging electorally due to his PED connections), all of whom are trending towards eventual election, albeit slowly.

Of course, the writers have also elected just three other starters who debuted after 1969, all 300-game winners (Glavine, Maddux, and Randy Johnson). Amid a general decline in levels of representation from more recent decades, the ratio of starters to position players has gotten significantly out of whack, and it will continue to be so if and when the ballot’s aforementioned trio of starters is eventually enshrined:

Position Players vs. Starters in Hall of Fame
Debut Year Pos SP Pos:SP
1871-1969 127 56 2.27
1970-on 29 7 4.14
Total 156 63 2.48
Totals include only those elected for their major-league playing careers (not as managers, executives, pioneers, or Negro Leaguers). Also not included are Monte Ward, who split his career between pitching and position playing, and the six relievers elected through the 2018 cycle.

As I explored in the aforementioned Halladay and Santana pieces, at some point, Hall voters will have to reckon with what I call the “workload constraint era,” with its five-man rotation, pitch counts, times-through-the-order concerns, and de facto innings caps. The milestones and thick resumés by which voters have been guided previously have begun to look quite different from starters of past decades, and the coming lack of 300-win pitchers will require a mental recalibration of sorts.

Unless he’s forced to retire sooner rather than later, Hernandez — whose contract runs through 2019, albeit with an injury-triggered conditional option for 2020 — won’t be at the vanguard of that reckoning. Halladay, Sabathia, Verlander (who’s now 35), and Greinke (now 34) will likely reach the ballot ahead of him, with win totals perhaps in the low 200s and career/peak/JAWS lines short of the standards but still the best of their era. If Hernandez is to occupy a prominent spot in that discussion, he’ll need to regain his momentum through some combination of better health and reinvention, or he’ll risk becoming one of the many great hurlers who fell by the wayside en route to Cooperstown. Here’s hoping he bounces back.





Brooklyn-based Jay Jaffe is a senior writer for FanGraphs, the author of The Cooperstown Casebook (Thomas Dunne Books, 2017) and the creator of the JAWS (Jaffe WAR Score) metric for Hall of Fame analysis. He founded the Futility Infielder website (2001), was a columnist for Baseball Prospectus (2005-2012) and a contributing writer for Sports Illustrated (2012-2018). He has been a recurring guest on MLB Network and a member of the BBWAA since 2011, and a Hall of Fame voter since 2021. Follow him on BlueSky @jayjaffe.bsky.social.

43 Comments
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Ryan DCMember since 2016
8 years ago

If Kevin Brown couldn’t get elected, a bunch of these guys are going to have to wait for the veteran’s committee (or whatever they’re calling it now) while the BBWAA adjusts to new benchmarks for pitcher performance.

Ryan DCMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  Jay Jaffe

I guess the pitcher usage constraints era overlaps enough with the PED era that separating them out will be difficult (for those who played before the testing regime was implemented). Are there any other recent snubs you would point to that demonstrate the BBWAA’s difficulty in adjusting to the new reality?

RonnieDobbs
8 years ago
Reply to  Ryan DC

What is the pitcher usage constraints era?

RonnieDobbs
8 years ago
Reply to  RonnieDobbs

Thanks everyone!

RonnieDobbs
8 years ago
Reply to  Jay Jaffe

I also think of Brown as a PED guy, which means his chances are 0% just based on that alone. I am not anti-PED at all, but I know how those folks vote at this time.

PC1970Member since 2024
8 years ago
Reply to  Jay Jaffe

He was also considered a grade A Asshole when he played. Maybe it shouldn’t mean much, but, it does. A guy like that probably needs a statistical case beyond argument. Think Steve Carlton.

BTW, not saying this is fair, but, it’s the reality.

TKDCMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  PC1970

Eh, it’s not exactly unfair.

PC1970Member since 2024
8 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

That’s fair. & you know, it probably effected his career stats anyway. If a guy is a jerk, as soon as he’s not great, you’re not keeping him around. So, he doesn’t get a chance for a role like CC Sabbathia has now where he can add 2-3 years of league average/slightly above average #’s to his resume & get the bump from that & media attention when he hits say 250 wins or whatever.. & you also don’t get those warm & fuzzy stories about him mentoring the young guys.

For a borderline guy, that can make a difference.

RonnieDobbs
8 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

I think it is extremely unfair. We see it all the time – the gap in perception and reality as to what a person is in and out of the spotlight. Remember when Bill Cosby was a good guy? We don’t know anything about what these people are.

PC1970Member since 2024
8 years ago
Reply to  RonnieDobbs

Maybe it is..maybe not. I think it depends what his “asshole” tendencies entailed. If he’s disruptive to the team, causing strife in the clubhouse, dividing the team (think of all the stuff said about Dick Allen when he played) that DOES detract from his overall case as he’s actively hurting the team. If he’s just a dick to reporters, who cares?

I do agree with you on how little we really know. For example, I had a friend that was around the periphery of the Yankee teams from late 2000’s-early 2010’s & he says A-Rod was generally much more liked, interacted more with other players, was more helpful to young players, etc. than Jeter, who was kind of this “Captain Jete’s” up on a pedestal figure. You would never expect that from what we hear in the media, but, he swears it is true.

Bob Warja
8 years ago
Reply to  Jay Jaffe

I know for a fact there are already players in the HoF who used PEDs. (You will just have to take my word on that, it’s from a former player I know which you can choose to believe or not). Problem with using that as a criteria is you just don’t know who did and who did not. I do believe more than half of the pitchers and hitters used, including some already enshrined, so it’s unfair to leave him out based on that. There are valid reasons why Kevin Brown is not in the Hall, but that shouldn’t be one of them.

PC1970Member since 2024
8 years ago
Reply to  Bob Warja

I wouldn’t keep him out solely due to PED’s. But, if his case is borderline even with PED usage, I think it’s safe to wonder how much PED’s even helped him get to borderline status.

I think it’s the same reason Bonds & Clemens get 50% of the vote while Sosa, Sheffield, etc get 10%. Bonds & Clemens were HOF caliber even without PED’s, Sosa & Sheffield were borderline even with them.

BipMember since 2016
8 years ago

So, unless he has a career rejuvination–still possible given his age–I don’t think he makes it, and by the common WARs, he doesn’t look quite qualified. However, take a look at him by BP’s DRA WAR. It is remarkable. By that measure, he’s already a lock. If it’s to be believed, he was really the best pitcher in baseball during the time that Kershaw was the unquestioned title-holder.

BenZobrist4MVP
8 years ago
Reply to  Bip

Does anyone know why Baseball Prospectus rates him so much higher than Fangraphs and Baseball Reference?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
8 years ago
Reply to  BenZobrist4MVP

DRA really is a different beast. Fangraphs is based on FIP, which is really simple. BR basically just takes runs allowed and adjusts it based on fielding and park effects, which would be good except fielding and park effects are the two things we measure worst (and I don’t have a ton of faith in the specific metrics BR uses).

DRA is way more complicated and involves running a mixed model with all kinds of random effects and a ton of variables followed by a ridiculously complicated algorithm to assign interactions between the inputs and assess nonlinear relationships. This means you can’t calculate it unless you have R or ready to go on your computer. It also means determining what goes into any single predicted value is not easy.

My guess is this: Because Felix was a ground ball pitcher in a stadium that suppressed fly ball power, DRA finds that the park factor for him in particular isn’t working very well. It also wouldn’t rely on K/BB as much as FIP.

RonnieDobbs
8 years ago

I think he is borderline case. That term gets used too frequently by most people, but I really do think he is as close as it gets. A hitter of his caliber would make it, but pitchers have a tough time making it these days. He really was a TOR guy for seven consecutive years. Then again, his peak is not close to that of Johan Santana, who may get snubbed. I would vote him in, but the voters have created some silly benchmarks where every starting pitcher is going to have a nearly impossible time gaining entry. I would even go as far as to say that the twilight of a pitcher’s career is the most important factor in their HOF case. Its almost like the SP criteria are more about snubs than what they did on the field – we snubbed this guy, so we need to snub these as well. In any case, the HOF does not include the HR, hits leaders or the guy with 7 Cy Young awards – so who cares who is in it?

Anonymous
8 years ago
Reply to  RonnieDobbs

Two of those guys should get in eventually.

khaaan
8 years ago

Jay!!! We all know what JAWS is… do you go to Fangraphs at all?

nice article otherwise 🙂

khaaan
8 years ago
Reply to  Jay Jaffe

Sorry, that was meant to be friendly teasing. You do excellent work.

tb.25
8 years ago

I see two scenarios in which the King enters the hall.

Either he improves and can garner a good amount of WAR through the rest of his career, or the voters realize they’ve been foolish and lower the modern-day SP bar. That’d bring him from a long-shot to perhaps a 50-50, or higher if he does well plus that happens.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
8 years ago

Greinke has a surprisingly strong case per JAWS.

Greinke, Verlander, and Sabathia are going to be interesting test cases.

tyke
8 years ago

Hall of Stats (http://www.hallofstats.com/player/hernafe02) has him at a 99, with 100 being an average HOFer. That ranks him 95th among pitchers and 266th all-time (and 4th in Mariners history). The 5 closest comps to him accoring to HoS are Jimmy Key, Kevin Appier, Justin Verlander, Ron Guidry, and Brad Radke. That feels right to me?

tyke
8 years ago
Reply to  tyke

In other words, definitely not a shoo-in, and he definitely doesn’t stand a chance to get in, unless like Jay says, he strings together a number of solid campaigns and hits 200+ W. But if you squint at the stats, he’s a definitely a candidate, especially if you’re a “Big Hall” guy.

Kevbot034
8 years ago
Reply to  tyke

Justin Verlander is in the same tier as Brad Radke? That’s interesting to me. I guess Radke was better than I gave credit for.

Mike NMN
8 years ago

For a long while we looked down on pitchers like Sutton and Perry because we thought they were mostly compliers. I wonder whether, with the emphasis on fewer innings pitched, whether we might revisit the “compiler” classification? At least they held up.
I’m also a believer in both Mussina and Schilling. A Hall that has Morris, certainly has room for those two.

ThomServo
8 years ago

The lack of strong candidates in coming years will lower the bar- not sure if that’ll be enough for Hernandez, but should make it interesting.

IMO Clemens, Bonds, Arod and Ortiz all get elected in 2020 (Bonds & Clemens 10th year, and the first upcoming election where there is truly no one to elect by current standards if not a caught PED user). Budging on PEDs will likely happen before lowering statistical standards I’d guess (though Morris, Vlad and Hoffman cases might argue otherwise).

After the PED ban is over, Pettitte is likely to get elected imo- too many WS trophies and too popular not to, he’s the pitcher counterpart to Ortiz in some ways. Pettitte’s induction (as well as Halladay’s) should provide a lower reference point for some modern players.

I’d also guess that Goodin, Santana, Kaat and Rueschel will probably get in via the Eras committee fairly soon, with the others mentioned by Jay having a good shot as well. Brown will also likely get in once the PED ban is over, though I think he rubbed writers wrong as well so might not be first in line despite his performance.

Between the vote and the committees, not too many guys with 60+ WAR are going to be left given that the HOF seems to want 3+ players enshrined per year.

PC1970Member since 2024
8 years ago
Reply to  ThomServo

I could maybe see Kaat getting in at some point.

I don’t think Gooden, Santana & Reuschel have a prayer. Gooden is as known for his lost promise & drug issues than his unbelievable 1st 3 years. Santana is years away from even being debated. Reuschel, while a sabr favorite, wasn’t considered a great pitcher when he actually pitched. I grew up in the 70’s-80’s & no one thought he was a HOF type player while he played. Only got CY votes 3x (2 3rd, 1 8th), only made 3 AS teams. Kind of the Bobby Grich of pitchers, I guess. I wonder if the new stats friendly voters will even remember him actually playing.

3cardmontyMember since 2025
8 years ago

He’s one of my all-time favorite players but he’s just short right now by the numbers and would need a Verlander-esque renaissance to stand a chance.

PC1970Member since 2024
8 years ago

In this era, if starting pitchers are pitching less innings, shouldn’t there be less starting pitchers in the HOF? Obviously, benchmarks like 300 wins are not feasible, but, as workloads have gone done 25-30% from the 1970’s-80’s (& even more from older periods), the starting pitcher effect on the game is lessened along with it, right?

I am sure there is a middle ground somewhere, but, I don’t think the 2.27 position player to SP ratio should hold if starting pitchers are pitching way less innings, getting pulled after 5-6 innings. Obviously, the best of the best should always get in, but, you’re not going to get huge compilers like Early Wynn, Don Sutton, Gaylord Perry, etc. in this era. The game has changed, SP’s role has changed with it, so the HOF probably should consider less SP’s going forward.

Mean Mr. Mustard
8 years ago
Reply to  PC1970

I would suspect that pitchers pitching less innings going forward would not necessarily mean that there will be less pitchers in the Hall, but that the review process will skew more heavily towards peak performance rather than career totals – in essence, starting pitchers will begin to be judged more like relievers.
Or we could just do away with the designation of starter/reliever (for the purpose of Hall voting) and look at all pitchers equally on a rate basis rather than on compilation.

PC1970Member since 2024
8 years ago

I was thinking more along the lines of your 2nd paragraph. At starters pitch less innings, someone is going to pick up the slack. If you had a guy was dominant in a postseason Andrew Miller/McCullers role or a 70’s “fireman
role for years in the regular season, say 50 games a year, 100 innings a year for years & years. Should they get in?

I think so. The game is heading that way. Problem is the voters. Are they smart enough to look away from saves & wins to give that type of pitcher credit?

Mean Mr. Mustard
8 years ago
Reply to  PC1970

Eventually the voters will have to; otherwise, it becomes a Hall of Famous Batters.

kid
8 years ago

How is the HOF going to adjust to the a) reduced performance and b) shortened careers now that PEDs are (largely) eradicated? 500 career HR feels almost untouchable for modern hitters, now that we start considering them in the “decline” phase as soon as they hit 30 years of age. For pitchers, outside of Kershaw, it’s tough to even entertain the idea of anyone hitting the older statistical milestones.

In Felix’ case my knee-jerk reaction is that he’s short of the HOF. If his ’16 & ’17 seasons were 3.5-5 WAR instead of 1.0 & 0.4 WAR, and he put together a solid ’18 & ’19, I’d be leaning towards the Hall. But the former didn’t happen, and the latter is looking unlikely; so for me, he has neither the longevity argument (sustained excellence), nor the “Peak Performance” argument (multiple seasons as arguably a top-5 player), not to mention the statistical shortcomings (he was primarily an innings-eater who didn’t win a lot of games or register a lot of strikeouts, etc).

stever20Member since 2017
8 years ago

would seem insane to have thought this I think even 2 years ago but man it’s realistic as anything I think now that he’s not a shoo-in for Cooperstown.

I think he’s one that the homer surge has really hurt. After 2008-2014 every year being in the top 8 in fewest HR/9 innings- his numbers last 3 years- 59 hr in 441.2 innings- 1.2 per 9(compared to 7 prior years with 113 hr in 1595 innings- 0.6 hr/9).
2008-2014- 3rd best in MLB for guys with at least 1000 IP (0.64 hr/9)
2015-2017- 29th worst in MLB for guys with at least 400 IP (1.20 hr/9)

booj11
8 years ago

Can’t imagine a group that let Santana fall off would see much merit in Felix’s resume. I certainly don’t.

stever20Member since 2017
8 years ago
Reply to  booj11

Hernandez has made already 89 more starts than Santana did. With about 475 more innings. I think that makes at least some difference. If Felix can bounce back with 2 more really good years he’d be about 900 more innings than Santana and about 150 more starts. That’s a pretty huge gap there.

booj11
8 years ago
Reply to  stever20

That’s a lot of ‘ifs’ to create a gap from…unceremoniously falling off the ballot without ever meriting consideration (not that I’m defending the BBWA on Santana–far from it). I was not commenting as a comp necessarily but as an indication for the height of the bar.

(I was trying to be predictive of the writers before, but my personal opinion here is that HOF voters give far too much credence to longevity. Limping along as a moderately effective starter until his mid-thirties damages my perception of Hernandez more than it helps.)

stever20Member since 2017
8 years ago
Reply to  booj11

My point was though that Hernandez already has a pretty big 89 start/475 inning lead right now. And even more importantly- he’s still active. It’s like in college basketball- you’d rather be the team who is still playing this week- with a chance to improve their resume, over somoene who is finished. Their resumes as of right now are close, but King Felix still has a shot to improve his. And if he does, he’ll have the longevity piece that Santana didn’t have that turned off voters to him.

68FCMember since 2020
8 years ago

It’s worth considering that Felix probably won’t be on the ballot for another 10-12 years since he probably can stick around in the majors for another 5 years or so even if he doesn’t bounce back much. By then the voters will have changed hopefully into a group that doesn’t value wins as heavily and understands that modern pitchers are used differently than they were in 1940.

Bob Warja
8 years ago

It’s not a crazy question at all. Yet despite the unfortunate election of Jack Morris, I just think the King falls short of the Crown unless he has a renaissance in his later years. (Yes, I know he’s just turning 32, but he’s an old 32, so I only give him 3-4 more decent years). He does have a solid FIP of 3.35, could get close to 3,000 Ks, and I’m sure that some silly writers still look at win totals and he will reach 200…on second thought, he has a chance. If I had to bet, I’d say close but no cigar Mr. Clinton.