Yankees’, Angels’ Battles With StubHub Heating Up
When Major League Baseball renewed its partnership with StubHub last winter, the Yankees and Angels opted out. Instead, each of those teams created its own ticket resale marketplace in partnership with TicketMaster. Like many teams, the Yankees and Angels were unhappy about the MLB/StubHub arrangement, which often results in tickets selling on StubHub for prices well below face value. Those secondary-market sales then undercut a team’s ability to sell additional tickets at face value. The Yankees asked MLB to negotiate a price floor in the new MLB/StubHub contract. When that didn’t happen, the Yankees and Angels went their own way with the TicketMaster Ticket Exchange.
What has that meant for fans holding Yankees and Angels tickets?
If you purchase Yankees tickets and you want to sell your tickets and transfer them electronically, you must do so using the team’s Ticket Exchange. StubHub isn’t authorized by the Yankees to allow the print-at-home option for ticket buyers.
If you purchase Angels tickets and want to to sell your tickets and transfer them in any manner, you must do so using the team’s Ticket Exchange. According to the Angels, the team can void any ticket “should any person sell or offer this ticket for resale,” and resale in any forum other than on the team-authorized Ticketmaster site “is prohibited.”
Note: As several readers have noted, it appears you can download and print tickets from StubHub for Yankees and Angels games within 48 hours of the game’s start time. Beyond 48 hours, StubHub lists UPS as the only delivery option.
These ticket re-sale restrictions have prompted several responses from StubHub and its allies.
In New York, StubHub opened a store near Yankee Stadium so that ticket sellers and ticket buyers would have a secure location for the physical transfer of tickets once the electronic sale transaction had been completed. The Yankees responded by suing StubHub for violating New York’s anti-scalping law, which prohibits the sale of tickets within 1,500 feet of an event venue. The trial court in the Bronx agreed with the Yankees, granted a temporary restraining order, and shut down the StubHub store front. On the day the court was to consider a more permanent ban on the StubHub location, the parties reached a confidential settlement.
The fate of the store front just steps from Yankee Stadium is unclear. Lawyers for the Bronx Bombers said after the settlement was reached that fans would not be permitted to pick up tickets at that location that had been purchased online. StubHub didn’t comment on the settlement per se, but pointed out that it had opened a second location — outside the no-scalping zone — where fans can pick up tickets purchased through the online re-seller. That pick-up center is located in a Payless ShoeSource store in the Bronx Terminal Market. The parties are to submit the settlement agreement to the court by May 7.
In California, StubHub’s taken its fight to the state legislature. Dr. Richard Pan, an assembly member from the Sacramento area, introduced a bill to amend provisions of the state’s Business & Professions Code which regulate ticket re-sellers. The bill would, among other things, prohibit any ticket issuer in the state from placing restrictions on the transferability of an event ticket or “otherwise prohibit a person from reselling the event ticket on an online marketplace not owned by the ticket issuer or its authorized agent.” The bill has four co-authors — two members of the Assembly and two state Senators.
Dr. Pan issued the following statement in response to an inquiry on his support for the proposed legislation:
Concerts and sporting events are part of what binds communities together, and our ability to attend these special events with the people we care about shouldn’t cost us yet another fee. By protecting our right to own the tickets we bought so we can freely use them, at the time and manner in which we choose, we can make sure that having an extra ticket means one more friend can attend the game or the show.
That statement doesn’t make a ton of sense. StubHub charges a hefty fee on any ticket transaction. Indeed, according to Dr. Pan’s office, the bill is supported by StubHub, as well as consumer groups and transportation associations. The Assembly Art and Entertainment Committee will hold a hearing on the bill today (Tuesday, April 23) at 9:00 a.m. According to the Los Angeles Times, the Angels will send a representative to the hearing, as will the Dodgers, Padres, A’s and Giants. It’s worth noting, though, that the four other California-based teams not only participate in the MLB/StubHub arrangement but also allow fans to electronically transfer tickets to friends without a fee.
According to Fan Freedom, an organization that claims to speak for the rights of ticket holders, similar bills are pending in Florida, Texas, New Jersey and Minnesota. Like the California bill, these other proposals seek to create a clear property right in an event ticket, such that the purchaser can sell, transfer or do anything else she chooses with the ticket. These broad provisions are aimed at more than the restrictions the Angels impose on their tickets. The real battleground is on electronic-only tickets, where the ticket information resides only on the purchaser’s credit card and only the purchaser can use tickets. Concert and other event venues have moved toward these electronic-only tickets for a variety of reasons, not the least of which is to limit the secondary market.
The MLB/StubHub contract will be in effect through the end of the 2017 season, unless the parties agree to modify it sooner. Ticket technology will undoubtedly evolve over the next four years. That will present challenges for StubHub and MLB teams seeking greater control over their ticket sales and the secondary market.
Wendy writes about sports and the business of sports. She's been published most recently by Vice Sports, Deadspin and NewYorker.com. You can find her work at wendythurm.pressfolios.com and follow her on Twitter @hangingsliders.
I heard an interview with Lon Trost, the Yankees’ COO not too long ago who said that within 48 hours before game time the Yankees do allow people to buy print at home on StubHub. If so, I would imagine that really undercuts their position. Do the Angels do the same?
Kevin, you beat me to it. I haven’t tried it yet, so I can’t confirm, but Trost clearly said that you can print at home starting 48 hours before the game and ending 3 hours before the game.
If this is true, I would downgrade the Yankees-Stubhub disagreement from “kerfluffle” to “squabble”.
StubHub shuts down sales 2 hours before the game anyway, so is it really just a matter of getting your tickets and printing them 1 hour earlier?
I was very confused when reading this article, since last Sunday I went to the Yankees/Orioles game after buying the tickets on Stubhub and printing them that day. So it’s definitely possible.
I’m confused too, because when I was in LA a couple of weeks ago, I bought a ticket to the A’s-Angels game from Stubhub at 11pm the night before the game, and printed it from the hotel.
I’ve noted this in the article. There does appear to be a 48 hour window when downloading and printing is possible for Yankees and Angels tickets on StubHub.
The Yankees don’t allow season ticket holders to obtain PDF files of their tickets until 48 hours before the game; otherwise they would just download PDFs of all their tickets and then list them on StubHub. They do have to allow PDF access at some point, though, because it’s a convenience that ticketholders have become accustomed to. So at the 48 hour mark the PDFs become available, the season ticket holder can upload them to StubHub, and then electronic transfer is available to the buyer. StubHub may have some means of facilitating listings in advance of the 48 hour window, with the stipulation that you can’t get your tickets until the 48 hour window arrives and the seller uploads the PDFs. I don’t know who assumes the risk if the seller doesn’t come through, though.
My sister and I have four upper deck tickets in the Sunday package (16 games). We try to find friends or family who want to go, but if there isn’t anyone interested, it’s nice to be able to recoup something from StubHub, even if it isn’t face value. We’re listing on the Ticket Exchange site now, but the site is far less convenient than StubHub (the interface is awful and they provide you with almost no data about comparable sales), plus no one I know has even heard of the site, much less shops for tickets there. I have a feeling we’re not going to get anything for our extra tickets this year, which is going to encourage us – lifetime fans, longtime ticketholders – to drop the extra seats and maybe the entire package.
I think the Yankees are shooting themselves in the foot, but needless to say they haven’t asked my opinion about it.
Does the Angels restriction apply to in person resale, for instance, at the staidum the day of the game? If so, wow. Thanks for yet another interesting article!
So first the Yankees didn’t like StubHub because people were selling tickets well above face value [ie buying tickets from the Yankees and reselling for a profit]. Now they don’t like StubHub because people are selling tickets *below* face value??
To me it sounds more like the Yankees problem is that the way they price their tickets is wrong. If they are doing it right, the tickets shouldn’t often have enough extra resale value to make it profitable to buy and resell the tickets *and* ticket holders shouldn’t have to slash prices to move tickets either…
The Yankees are definitely upset about that, but I think they are more upset about the secondary market leading to less tickets being sold, which has been quite the eye sore watching games. Obviously the team is making less $ because of this also. Dynamic pricing would probably help…..
the yankees have been having record attendance (3 million +) for 14 straight years. the reason there are empty seats behind home plate is because they cost $1,700/game!! what stubhub has exposed is the fair market price for yankees tickets, and it’s nowhere near what the face value is. that’s what upsets the yankees.
Remember “empty” does not mean “unsold”.
A lot of those seats behind home plate are empty because:
1) the price of those seats entails you to unlimited food in the comfort of the restaurant accessed from that section. many people are just sitting in the restaurant eating and watching the game on TV. might seem odd to diehard baseball fans like us, but this is what people want I guess.
2) the seats are purchase by corporations, who write them off as the cost of entertaining clients. They purchase them in advance and then may or may not actually go the game. And if they do go, they may only sit outside (see #1) for a few innings or show up late/leave early.
We can argue the merits of this arrangement all day, but I would be surprised to learn the Yankees are simply losing money on these seats because they refuse to adjust prices.
you’re right about the yankees not losing money on these seats, but that’s exactly my point. guys that would show up to games can’t come close to affording these seats and the seats remain empty for most of the game. there are plenty of yankee fans that would pack those seats for $300-$400/per game (which is what those seats go for on stubhub). those empty seats are an embarrassment for the yanks.
Don’t disagree. The question is, is it better for the Yankees to sell the seats for $1700 and have it look bad on TV or sell them for $400 and have it look good?
Like I said, we could debate the merits of this all day, and I would probably fall more towards your side of the debate as a “normal” fan.
But the yankees, like all teams, are in the business of making money and I would guess until their current setup is no longer making money (which will probably happen at some point), I don’t expect a change.
i remember going to games in the late 80’s and early 90’s with only 15,000 or so in the stadium. i think that we are very far away from that, but i just don’t want to hear the yankee organization complaining how stubhub is destroying the ticket market. they averaged 45,00+ last year, what more do they want? who cares what fans resell their tickets for. they’ve already paid full price upfront!
One of the problems is the stadium doesn’t adjust prices based on the opponent. When I had season tickets, you could sell the opening series and series against the Red Sox or Yankees for large profits, but you’d take a loss on a midweek game against the Twins.
Perhaps teams should consider LOWERING ticket prices if no one wants to pay face value and buy tickets from the team (which almost always come with their own variety of “service” charges and “convenience” fees). Getting more fans through the gate, even at a slightly lower price, is going to boost revenues through additional purchases at the concession/apparel stands.
A secondary market like StubHub is essentially a free market where prices can fluctuate based on demand, instead of being fixed by a team. All of the tickets on StubHub were purchased originally from the team at face value. The fact that many tickets are going for less than face value speaks to the value of the product/experience (it’s not worth as much as the organization thinks it is).
If MLB teams protect their tickets from secondary markets, I hypothesize attendance will noticeably decline around the league.
Stubhub’s the only reason why my HDTV hasn’t completely taken me out of attending live sporting events.
+1
Can’t beat buying Cubs or White Sox tickets for $6/each the afternoon of the game and then getting to sit pretty much anywhere except the front sections since only 10,000 people are there.
Please happen to Fenway…Please happen to Fenway…
… You know that means your team would suck, right?
Yeah, I do. I could live with that. I have lost interest in them due to ownership practices over the last few years and really just want to watch good MLB baseball games without being crowded and paying a ton for a seat. i could live with the Sox being awful for a while if it cleared out the Pinkhats.
Stubhub’s the only reason my 32″ CRT hasn’t completely taken me out of attending live sporting events.
I was planning on going to a game in Yankee Stadium this year but then realized that tickets for a middle of July game against the Twins (probably not contenders at that time) were going for $100 for the 300 level and $175 for the 200 level. I have quite poor eyesight so prefer at least somewhere in the 200 level to make the game even worth going to. Needless to say my wife and I are not going to go to a game at Yankee Stadium this year and instead we may go see them play at the much more reasonable Orioles Park at Cameden Yards.
And prices were pretty consistent across the Yankees Ticket Exchange (which has a terrible 2000-esque interface) and Stubhub.
Try closer to game day – they will drop considerably by then.
Peter, there are plenty of tickets in the 200 level for less than $75 and many tickets in the 300 level for under $50:
http://www.stubhub.com/new-york-yankees-tickets/yankees-vs-twins-7-13-2013-4168644/
I’m with everyone who says to wait until day-of or close to it. Last-minute tickets were cheap last year:
Sat field level down the left field line [front row!] for Toronto last fall for $70. Yelled ‘testicles’ to Ichiro in Japanese.
Sat 200 level for boston [block of 7 seats] for $30 a ticket after fees for game 161 (Rauuuuul!)
Sat field-level for ALCS game 1 (right field stands.. Kid who caught Raul’s homer was 3 rows in front of us) for $54 a ticket after fees.
I’m thinking about catching one of the Houston games.. Field level seats can be found in the $45-80 range yet again this year.
I’m not sure how hard you’re looking. Almost no Yankee tickets sell for face value anymore.
Wendy, any idea how setting a ticket price floor isn’t collusion? While I certainly don’t pretend to know anything about the law, that just reeks. But it must be legal somehow.
In any case, I’ve pretty exclusively bought tickets from StubHub for years now. I don’t even check tickets from official sources anymore.
(and there is a price floor–the minimum listing price is three dollars, and then three dollars in fees)
man Wendy is such a great addition to this website. nobody else can do what she does
I second this.`
So if StubHub or other sites were to go away, wouldn’t that cause teams to lose more money, since anyone buying tickets would pretty much have to absolutely make sure they were going to the game? I think teams would see a loss in season ticket packages sold if fans didn’t think they could resell a portion of their games.
FIFA has a real strict resell policy (your name is actually printed on your ticket for the world cup, and it has to match your passport), but that’s a huge event that sells out quickly every year. Can’t imagine this “non-transferrable” ticket working for 81 games a year.
I don’t understand why tickets aren’t subject to the first sale doctrine just like any other good. If I purchase a t-shirt, I am free to sell that t-shirt for any price I want. Why can’t I do that with tickets?
I don’t know this for certain, but I would guess that the difference is that unlike a good (such as t-shirt) in which you acquire fee simple ownership, a ticket is just a revocable license, and the team can define the terms on which it will or will not revoke that license. This is the same reason you are often unable to resell digital music (you have only purchased a license and resale is against the licensing agreement).
JBruin is correct about the revocable license with respect to tickets. What the legislation in these states would need to do is create a property interest in the ticket that can be transferred. The digital music example is actually a copyright issue and governed by copyright law, which allows a ‘first sale’ under the doctrine of the same name but of course does not allow copying or duplication. A recent decision preventing this for digital music was based on the technical fact that a copy always has to be made for digital music to be transferred, even if the original copy is destroyed. (The court did not explicitly use it as a basis for its decision, but underlying the decision seemed to be a strong skepticism that any company/software system/authority could successfully administer the doctrine with digital music — there seemed to be an assumption that this would be abused by those with the technical acumen to save a digital copy in such a way as to be undetected, thereby selling a piece of digital music while saving it for themselves.)
The reason why the settlement is confidential is because it is likely an agreement that benefits the ticket holders.
It is a story of greed.
Did anyone ever see some of the tickets Stubhub sold last year? You could buy 12 tickets together in the last section in the upper deck at Yankee Stadium. So how does Stubhub acquire the tickets, or who are they being re-sold by? No season ticket holder buys 12 season tickets together in the last section. You could move closer by 6-7 sections for the same price.
The only way 12 tickets together in the last section of Yankee Stadium could be listed, is if the NY Yankees themselves listed them through a proxie. What that did was to gut the secondary market for the regular NYY season ticket holder. The benefit goes to the NYY, for whom it much more beneficial to sell a seat for $5 than to have it go empty, because of the $30-40 spent on concessions. Think through the logic.
This is a short-term plan though. Once fans realize tickets are available for $5, they will stop paying full price for tickets and just wait to buy them on the secondary market. That is a very bad long-term strategy for the Yankees.
No, because the Yankees then control the secondary market, and have reinflated the prices of good seats in comparison to the nose bleeds. The people it hurts are the season ticket holders who are trying to sell their extra tickets and can’t, because they aren’t allowed to sufficiently lower the price.
If season ticket holders decide that this is too onerous (I probably would if I had season tickets), the season ticket market will eventually bottom out, leaving the Yankees in complete control of a real time dynamic pricing scheme for all of their tickets, all of the time. This would allow them to completely optimize the price for every single ticket sold. The best case scenario for us consumers is that this succeeds and all tickets end up being bought by people who plan on attending that game, leading to full stadiums, but the loss of the season ticket. The worst case scenario is that the team would start to miss all the guaranteed and up-front season ticket money, and turn the entire stadium into luxury boxes…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A0RbRdrl3Aw
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