ZiPS Time Warp: Dustin Pedroia
By the time Dustin Pedroia officially announced his retirement early this month, it was already apparent that he’d never return to the Red Sox as a full-time player. One of the last active members of the 2007 championship team — Jon Lester is still kicking around, and I don’t believe Clay Buchholz has officially retired — his run ended prematurely thanks to the consequences of a 2017 knee injury. This was no random injury, either; it was the result of a collision at second with Manny Machado buckling Pedroia’s knee on a high-spikes slide. This wasn’t Machado’s first (or last) questionable slide as a baserunner, but the results here were worse than they looked initially. Pedroia played through pain for the rest of the 2017 season, missing most of August with continued inflammation, then had a procedure after the 2017 season to restore missing cartilage to his knee.
At the time, the belief was that Pedroia would be able to return in 2018, though not likely at the start of the season. Instead, he only totaled nine more games in what ended up being the rest of his career, with continual cycles of the knee feeling better followed by significant setbacks. More operations were required, and while he theoretically could have returned in 2020, he never got anywhere near returning to the field, and after the Red Sox agreed to pay him his full 2021 salary, he walked off into the sunset.
My colleague Brendan Gawlowski has already covered Pedroia’s retirement and what he meant to Red Sox fans and to baseball as a whole. Here, I’m using the ZiPS time machine once again to take a look at the bittersweet what-ifs.
In terms of making the Hall of Fame, Pedroia finishes tantalizingly close to induction on merit. In terms of Jay Jaffe’s JAWS, which balances peak and career WAR, he ranks 20th in baseball history among second basemen. The problem is that the number of Hall of Fame voters who vote based on WAR measures isn’t enough to ensure any player’s induction, and his traditional stats are meager by Hall standards. Perhaps if his injury had been a sudden one not traditionally connected with baseball, such as Kirby Puckett’s glaucoma, it would have given him a chance at a voting boost, but I expect that with 1,800 career hits, it’s going to be an uphill battle. (There are arguably more deserving second basemen on the outside of the Hall looking in than any other position, with Lou Whitaker, Bobby Grich, Willie Randolph, and Jeff Kent also likely snubs, at least in my eyes. Chase Utley won’t have an easy path to 75%, and Ian Kinsler will likely be one-and-done.)
Before we set our time machine to 2017 and give Pedroia a gentler descent path to his career, let’s briefly start at the beginning. Drafted in the second round in 2004 out of Arizona, he was extraordinarily polished for a player of his age, hitting a combined .357/.435/.535 at two levels after his late-season debut. There was no fluke here: He hit .293/.385/.452 in the high minors in 2005, and a .305/.384/.426 line for Triple-A Pawtucket earned him a trip to the majors just over two years after being drafted. His initial cup of coffee was missing the cream and sugar, but projections were through the roof for the 2006 season. I didn’t do a ZiPS Top 100 prospect list at the time, but his rest-of-career projection entering that season would have ranked him second on that year’s list.
ZiPS and PECOTA loved Pedroia going into the season on the strength of some pretty sweet minor league translations. I can’t vouch for what translations BP was using at the time, but his ZiPS MLEs (zMLE) for 2004 to ’06 were borderline unreal.
| Year | BA | OBP | SLG | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | SO | SB | DR |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2004 | .291 | .353 | .442 | 165 | 28 | 48 | 12 | 2 | 3 | 24 | 13 | 7 | 2 | 3 |
| 2005 | .277 | .349 | .398 | 477 | 64 | 132 | 28 | 3 | 8 | 64 | 44 | 42 | 6 | 7 |
| 2006 | .299 | .362 | .409 | 435 | 50 | 130 | 32 | 2 | 4 | 46 | 37 | 26 | 1 | 5 |
A player already translating as hitting close to .300 and playing an adroit (Pedroit?) second base? A 94/75 walk-to-strikeout ratio? I am a huge fan and would like to subscribe to your newsletter. None of these seasons would have looked particularly odd in the career that Pedroia eventually had, though with not as much power as he developed.
For the 2006 season, ZiPS projected a .275/.343/.403 line with nine home runs. I didn’t calculate WAR at this time, but I get about 2.1 WAR for his projection. ZiPS was less sophisticated at the time and didn’t make career projections for another year, so let’s take a brief stop and project Pedroia’s career entering the 2006 season using the latest ZiPS model and perfect knowledge of league offensive levels.
| Year | BA | OBP | SLG | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | SO | SB | OPS+ | DR | WAR |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2005 | .191 | .258 | .303 | 89 | 5 | 17 | 4 | 0 | 2 | 7 | 7 | 7 | 0 | 42 | -2 | -1.0 |
| 2006 | .287 | .352 | .437 | 478 | 69 | 137 | 36 | 6 | 8 | 59 | 40 | 37 | 6 | 101 | 6 | 3.1 |
| 2007 | .306 | .375 | .469 | 461 | 74 | 141 | 36 | 6 | 9 | 65 | 42 | 34 | 6 | 111 | 6 | 3.9 |
| 2008 | .288 | .367 | .469 | 465 | 74 | 134 | 40 | 7 | 10 | 65 | 50 | 37 | 6 | 114 | 7 | 3.9 |
| 2009 | .286 | .365 | .480 | 465 | 76 | 133 | 37 | 10 | 11 | 69 | 50 | 40 | 6 | 115 | 7 | 4.0 |
| 2010 | .285 | .366 | .464 | 463 | 74 | 132 | 34 | 8 | 11 | 67 | 51 | 43 | 6 | 121 | 7 | 3.8 |
| 2011 | .294 | .371 | .468 | 459 | 78 | 135 | 34 | 8 | 10 | 71 | 48 | 43 | 5 | 124 | 7 | 3.9 |
| 2012 | .289 | .367 | .483 | 447 | 70 | 129 | 33 | 9 | 12 | 63 | 47 | 46 | 5 | 126 | 6 | 3.9 |
| 2013 | .278 | .357 | .448 | 431 | 69 | 120 | 29 | 7 | 10 | 61 | 45 | 43 | 5 | 115 | 5 | 3.0 |
| 2014 | .270 | .352 | .443 | 418 | 57 | 113 | 30 | 9 | 8 | 50 | 45 | 40 | 4 | 122 | 4 | 2.7 |
| 2015 | .277 | .350 | .446 | 401 | 63 | 111 | 25 | 8 | 9 | 57 | 37 | 36 | 4 | 113 | 4 | 2.5 |
| 2016 | .273 | .350 | .441 | 381 | 62 | 104 | 23 | 7 | 9 | 55 | 38 | 35 | 3 | 106 | 2 | 2.2 |
| 2017 | .267 | .345 | .420 | 348 | 49 | 93 | 19 | 5 | 8 | 44 | 35 | 31 | 2 | 100 | 1 | 1.7 |
| 2018 | .258 | .334 | .387 | 318 | 47 | 82 | 18 | 1 | 7 | 39 | 30 | 28 | 2 | 94 | 0 | 1.0 |
| 2019 | .250 | .328 | .389 | 280 | 42 | 70 | 16 | 1 | 7 | 35 | 27 | 24 | 1 | 86 | -1 | 0.7 |
| 2020 | .243 | .313 | .358 | 218 | 28 | 53 | 11 | 1 | 4 | 23 | 18 | 16 | 1 | 81 | -2 | 0.0 |
| 2021 | .240 | .307 | .351 | 171 | 21 | 41 | 8 | 1 | 3 | 17 | 13 | 12 | 1 | 74 | -3 | -0.2 |
| Total | .277 | .353 | .442 | 6293 | 958 | 1745 | 433 | 94 | 138 | 847 | 623 | 552 | 63 | 109 | 55 | 39.1 |
In the end, the projection came shockingly close to what actually happened, with the OBP and SLG both very close and only two homers off the eventual result. I wish that career projection were this accurate typically, but unfortunately, they’re not! ZiPS didn’t see Pedroia’s power peak as high, and he was even better defensively, but the projected version wasn’t that different from the real one.
There were always injuries, most notably a two-year period in 2014 and ’15 when he was hampered by thumb and hamstring injuries. But neither of these maladies significantly altered the course of his career, and he put up a vintage Pedroia year in 2016, collecting 4.9 WAR and setting a new career-high in batting average at .318. Now 33, this is the perfect time for us to re-project the rest of his baseball years, now without that collision at second.
| Year | BA | OBP | SLG | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | SO | SB | OPS+ | WAR |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2006 | .191 | .258 | .303 | 89 | 5 | 17 | 4 | 0 | 2 | 7 | 7 | 7 | 0 | 42 | -1.0 |
| 2007 | .317 | .380 | .442 | 520 | 86 | 165 | 39 | 1 | 8 | 50 | 47 | 42 | 7 | 112 | 3.7 |
| 2008 | .326 | .376 | .493 | 653 | 118 | 213 | 54 | 2 | 17 | 83 | 50 | 52 | 20 | 123 | 6.4 |
| 2009 | .296 | .371 | .447 | 626 | 115 | 185 | 48 | 1 | 15 | 72 | 74 | 45 | 20 | 110 | 4.7 |
| 2010 | .288 | .367 | .493 | 302 | 53 | 87 | 24 | 1 | 12 | 41 | 37 | 38 | 9 | 127 | 3.2 |
| 2011 | .307 | .387 | .474 | 635 | 102 | 195 | 37 | 3 | 21 | 91 | 86 | 85 | 26 | 131 | 7.9 |
| 2012 | .290 | .347 | .449 | 563 | 81 | 163 | 39 | 3 | 15 | 65 | 48 | 60 | 20 | 114 | 4.3 |
| 2013 | .301 | .372 | .415 | 641 | 91 | 193 | 42 | 2 | 9 | 84 | 73 | 75 | 17 | 115 | 4.9 |
| 2014 | .278 | .337 | .376 | 551 | 72 | 153 | 33 | 0 | 7 | 53 | 51 | 75 | 6 | 99 | 3.8 |
| 2015 | .291 | .356 | .441 | 381 | 46 | 111 | 19 | 1 | 12 | 42 | 38 | 51 | 2 | 112 | 2.3 |
| 2016 | .318 | .376 | .449 | 633 | 105 | 201 | 36 | 1 | 15 | 74 | 61 | 73 | 7 | 117 | 4.9 |
| 2017 | .293 | .354 | .414 | 553 | 79 | 162 | 29 | 1 | 12 | 60 | 53 | 71 | 7 | 101 | 3.5 |
| 2018 | .279 | .339 | .403 | 509 | 75 | 142 | 28 | 1 | 11 | 58 | 47 | 64 | 6 | 100 | 2.6 |
| 2019 | .273 | .335 | .396 | 480 | 72 | 131 | 27 | 1 | 10 | 55 | 46 | 61 | 5 | 90 | 2.2 |
| 2020 | .267 | .322 | .377 | 416 | 54 | 111 | 20 | 1 | 8 | 41 | 35 | 45 | 4 | 88 | 1.3 |
| 2021 | .265 | .313 | .360 | 378 | 46 | 100 | 16 | 1 | 6 | 35 | 27 | 38 | 4 | 78 | 0.7 |
| 2022 | .258 | .303 | .351 | 248 | 28 | 64 | 9 | 1 | 4 | 22 | 16 | 23 | 2 | 71 | 0.1 |
| Year | BA | OBP | SLG | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | SO | SB | OPS+ | WAR |
| ZiPS RoC | .275 | .332 | .389 | 2584 | 354 | 710 | 129 | 6 | 51 | 271 | 224 | 302 | 28 | 91 | 10.4 |
| Actual | .279 | .356 | .371 | 437 | 48 | 122 | 19 | 0 | 7 | 63 | 52 | 51 | 4 | 92 | 1.4 |
| Year | BA | OBP | SLG | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | SO | SB | OPS+ | WAR |
| ZiPS Career | .293 | .355 | .427 | 8178 | 1228 | 2393 | 504 | 21 | 184 | 933 | 796 | 905 | 162 | 107 | 55.5 |
| Actual | .299 | .365 | .439 | 6031 | 922 | 1805 | 394 | 15 | 140 | 725 | 624 | 654 | 138 | 113 | 46.6 |
A longer decline doesn’t drastically change the result and even lowers some of the rate stats, but it also gives Pedroia some time to amass better counting stats. Nearly 2,500 hits looks a lot better than 1,800; combine that with his reputation and rings, and it gives him at least a fighting chance on the ballot. I think this version of Pedroia still has trouble hitting 75%, but I think he’d at least have a better Veterans Committee case down the road. He had a fine career, just not as much of it as everyone would have hoped.
For a long time, it appeared that there was at least a chance that someday, we’d get a joint Pedroia/Robinson Canó induction year. Now, the odds of this look much longer with both Pedroia’s shortened career and Canó’s two PED-related suspensions. This trip through time was less tragic than some other cases, such as Tony Conigliaro’s, but that doesn’t mean it wouldn’t have been cool if the fates had been a tad kinder here.
Dan Szymborski is a senior writer for FanGraphs and the developer of the ZiPS projection system. He was a writer for ESPN.com from 2010-2018, a regular guest on a number of radio shows and podcasts, and a voting BBWAA member. He also maintains a terrible Twitter account at @DSzymborski.
I don’t want to be reminded again of dirty Machado. My guess that the simulation didn’t change much did turn out to be correct.
Note: The minor league chart has Pedroia with 7 SO in 165 AB in 2004. Should it be 17?
Believe it or not, nope, 7!
thanks. just thought it looked odd.
Machado is the first major player that came to “my” team (Dodgers) whom I only knew from highlights and stats (hadn’t heard anything about personality etc)
I went from being highly excited to mildly disturbed. There’s just something dark about him. The same way ARod was in his late career
Agreed. I know there’s a lot of hothead competitors in the sport, but some of Machado’s actions have been disturbingly violent.
With any other player, I don’t think people would’ve even been that angry about the Pedroia slide. It’s an intense one, but you could see how it’s an accident from the right angle. But the guy also threw a bat at Josh Donaldson and damn near tried to break Jesus Aguilar’s ankle on a routine grounder. There’s an air of cruelty there that is hard to stomach.
I’m not even sure if this is a controversial opinion, but Machado is more likely to end up in the Hall of Fame than Pedroia, right?
Almost 1300 hits and 223 home runs through age 27 probably puts him on pace for at least 2000 and 400. He’s at 36 WAR and should clear 50 at least.
I’m not sure how much his reputation will hurt him, but it seems like an example of fate being rather unkind.
You’re comparing a 0% case to a >0% case
You’re a 100% right. Pedroia just misses the minimum WAR that seems to be required to be considered now (example : Chase Utley was viewed as a similar player for grit, effort, intelligence – but Utley has 13 more BWAR putting him right below the average HOF 2B his play style and success will make up for being slightly below the established HOF 2B standard)
By the way the last 13 WAR of Utleys career came after his age 33 season. Pedroia basically lost his post 33 seasons.
Man, I know Pedroia is not exactly universally beloved, but he was so fun to watch both in the field and at the plate, and it’s just such a bummer his injuries did him in prematurely.
Man, I really enjoy this series
BTW the Machado slide doesn’t look anywhere near as egregious looking back…The way I’ve heard it described you’d think he basically attacked Pedroia:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbAYcXPhIUE
It wasn’t the most violent collision, but it is truly an egregious slide. Pedroia is in full extension out towards left Field, and the knee where Machado hits him is at least a foot or two beyond second base. Truly truly egregious.
Eh, I think that he’s so far out towards LF – off balance too since he’s stretching to catch a mediocre at best throw – is a big part of why things played out like they did
But if he’s far out to left field and off balance, there’s no legitimate baseball reason to try to take him out. And of course, there’s no reason for his foot to be that high off the ground.
He didn’t try to take him out and the leg goes up due to the slide. What is even to be gained from *assuming* Machado wanted to take him out? What’s the end game to something like that anyway? What insanity….
I agree. The slide was egregious. For me not because he slid too far, but because the spikes were very high. That’s very dangerous, and there’s no reason for them to be that high. He also didn’t do much to avoid the strike even though he seems to be looking right at what was going on.
But as far as the injury to Pedroia, it doesn’t look at first watch that it should turn out to be so serious. It doesn’t look like he was hit that hard or that he was in such a vulnerable position, the back of his leg initially being turned towards the slide and his knee being bent. But after I watched a few times and paid close attention to Pedroia’s movements I think it was a dynamic thing where Pedroia was actually moving the side of his knee directly against the force being applied by Machado right at the moment of contact, by twisting his body, lifting himself upwards, and straightening his leg.
I mainly remember watching it in slow motion, because that’s how we tend to see it replayed now (I do anyways). But if you look at the very beginning of the clip above, he comes in pretty hard and fast. And of course he goes way past the bag.
Machado has a bad reputation and Pedroia is a scrappy redass. One guy was always going to get the benefit of the doubt over the other.
He and David Wright had such painful exits from the big leagues. I think each will get their due from the HOF Veterans Committee when the time comes.
Nugget: career batting average fell under .300 in final season after going 2 for 20.
This really does suggest that, as lousy as it was that he got injured and his career cut short, it didn’t have a huge impact on his career length/HOF case. He ends up with a WAR in the mid-50s. Yes, 2,300 hits looks a lot nicer but that’s really the only big bump he gets.
I guess 1,200 runs looks a lot better too.
Machado is a douche.
I have to say that watching him on TV he always seemed to be a high injury risk player going all out all the time.
So, it was t the career it could have been, but what a great flash of performance and team success he was a part of.
Pedroia is/was memorable as a player on the field. Even some players with twice as much WAR didn’t leave as bright of an impression
Regardless of his performance or HoF merits, he certainly was a distinctive personality — and baseball needs those.
During the 2007 postseason I was at friend’s house (wow, remember when you could just casually go over to a friend’s house?) and we had the game on but the TV was muted. His teenaged daughter, who had zero interest in sports, wandered through the room and asked “Who is that angry little bald man?” It was Pedroia, of course, hanging off the dugout rail while yelling something at the ump, or the other team, or perhaps the fates themselves.
And that was our name for him for the rest of his career.