ZiPS Time Warp: Ted Williams
Ted Williams isn’t the typical beneficiary of a trip in the ZiPS time machine. After all, anyone who has the slightest interest in baseball — and many who don’t — know his name, even if they aren’t familiar with every last one of his accomplishments. Williams typified the cerebral, scientific hitter in the same way that Babe Ruth created the archetype of the larger-than-life slugger. The mercurial Ruth likely would have had considerably more trouble adapting to today’s game, but I’m of the opinion that the Splendid Splinter would actually thrive in a world where offense is looked at more as science than myth made true. Perhaps the best modern comparison for Williams is Joey Votto if the latter somehow got a hold of a genie’s lamp.
The list of Williams’ accomplishments is far too lengthy to run down in complete fashion, so we’ll settle for a sampling. He’s first all-time in on-base percentage and second in slugging percentage. He’s the most recent player to hit .400, and a two-time Triple Crown winnner. Ted finished with a .344 batting average, 521 homers, 2,654 hits, and enough black ink in his stats that he could have started his own newspaper.
But Williams’ career was also marked by long absences from the game. He was drafted after Pearl Harbor, initially receiving a deferment because he was his mother’s sole support. He played through the 1942 season, but enlisted in the Navy reserve after its conclusion and served for the next three years.
In terms of baseball, those were prime seasons of his career lost. The 1943-1945 stretch represented his age-24 through age-26 seasons, years when a lot of Hall of Famers turn in some of their most eye-popping campaigns. Taking a look at the list of Hall of Fame hitters through those ages sorted by WAR, there are some truly gigantic numbers involved:
| Name | WAR |
|---|---|
| Babe Ruth | 36.5 |
| Mickey Mantle | 31.7 |
| Rogers Hornsby | 31.5 |
| Jimmie Foxx | 30.0 |
| Lou Gehrig | 29.5 |
| Tris Speaker | 28.5 |
| Ty Cobb | 27.3 |
| Joe DiMaggio | 25.7 |
| Mike Schmidt | 25.7 |
| Ron Santo | 24.8 |
| Willie Mays | 24.4 |
| Eddie Collins | 24.1 |
| Rickey Henderson | 22.3 |
| Johnny Bench | 22.1 |
| Hank Aaron | 22.0 |
| Ralph Kiner | 21.8 |
| Frank Robinson | 21.6 |
| Arky Vaughan | 21.0 |
| Johnny Mize | 20.8 |
| Frank Thomas | 20.4 |
| Mel Ott | 20.4 |
| Frank Baker | 20.4 |
| Lou Boudreau | 20.4 |
| Joe Cronin | 20.3 |
| Robin Yount | 20.3 |
Every hitter in the Hall of Fame who was allowed to play in major league baseball put up something in those seasons. They averaged just under five wins per season, and 123 of the 153 hitters put up at least 10 WAR. (For those who are curious, Sam Rice, an extremely late-bloomer, only collected 1.3 WAR during these ages.)
In 1952, Williams did it all again. Activated for the Korean War, he played in just six games that season, reporting for training in May. That stint in the armed forces was a shorter one and Williams returned for the end of the 1953 season, wreaking a terrible vengeance on pitchers while hitting .407/.509/.901 with 13 homers in 37 games. He was his usual self in 1954, but injuries took a toll. Slowed down by a broken collarbone in the spring, the 35-year-old announced that 1954 would be his final season. The Red Sox offered him the manager job, which he declined.
But his retirement was entwined with a messy divorce and he returned to the Red Sox in May 1955. Almost every player in history would envy his decline phase. From 1955 until his retirement in 1960, Williams hit .336/.470/.623. His final 1.096 OPS suggests he could have stayed around even longer, but he finished his career in style, hitting one last Fenway dinger off Orioles pitcher Jack Fisher.
As baseball fans, we can’t help but wonder what Teddy Ballgame could have done with more ballgames. There are a few ways to look at this, so I’ll start with this easiest.
Here’s how hitters throughout baseball history rank if we take out the stats generated during their ages-24-26 and 33-34 seasons. Suffice it to say, Williams shoots up the charts. Overall, Williams and Stan Musial are the only two players in the top 25 for WAR who went to war, though Joe DiMaggio likely makes the top 25 without World War II:
| Name | WAR |
|---|---|
| Ted Williams | 127.8 |
| Barry Bonds | 127.7 |
| Babe Ruth | 113.6 |
| Ty Cobb | 112.2 |
| Willie Mays | 104.3 |
| Honus Wagner | 100.6 |
| Stan Musial | 100.4 |
| Hank Aaron | 99.9 |
| Tris Speaker | 89.1 |
| Rogers Hornsby | 87.4 |
| Joe Morgan | 84.3 |
| Eddie Collins | 84.1 |
| Mel Ott | 80.8 |
| Alex Rodriguez | 78.3 |
| Mickey Mantle | 74.8 |
| Rickey Henderson | 73.7 |
| Cap Anson | 72.4 |
| Nap Lajoie | 72.2 |
| Carl Yastrzemski | 71.5 |
| Frank Robinson | 70.5 |
| Eddie Mathews | 69.4 |
| Lou Gehrig | 68.6 |
| Cal Ripken | 68.0 |
| Jimmie Foxx | 66.9 |
| Mike Schmidt | 66.8 |
But that’s not entirely fair to the others, is it? After all, they actually put up those seasons! Plus, I have a projection system, for an occasion just such as this. For this part of the Time Warp, I asked ZiPS to project Williams, with 1942 being the jumping-off point from reality:
| Year | BA | OBP | SLG | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | SO | OPS+ | WAR |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1943 | .347 | .492 | .580 | 505 | 131 | 175 | 30 | 5 | 26 | 92 | 141 | 47 | 221 | 11.3 |
| 1944 | .360 | .495 | .596 | 495 | 171 | 178 | 31 | 7 | 24 | 118 | 130 | 45 | 223 | 10.6 |
| 1945 | .349 | .498 | .577 | 487 | 136 | 170 | 30 | 6 | 23 | 94 | 142 | 45 | 218 | 10.3 |
| 1946 | .354 | .510 | .681 | 480 | 177 | 170 | 30 | 8 | 37 | 120 | 150 | 54 | 233 | 12.5 |
| 1947 | .350 | .518 | .675 | 468 | 157 | 164 | 28 | 8 | 36 | 107 | 160 | 47 | 231 | 11.5 |
| 1948 | .346 | .525 | .643 | 459 | 183 | 159 | 27 | 8 | 31 | 121 | 169 | 42 | 215 | 10.8 |
| 1949 | .343 | .530 | .668 | 452 | 176 | 155 | 26 | 8 | 35 | 117 | 177 | 40 | 219 | 11.1 |
| 1950 | .353 | .529 | .735 | 445 | 191 | 157 | 26 | 9 | 42 | 126 | 163 | 40 | 217 | 11.2 |
| 1951 | .345 | .507 | .673 | 441 | 144 | 152 | 24 | 8 | 35 | 97 | 142 | 39 | 210 | 10.0 |
| 1952 | .321 | .474 | .601 | 439 | 119 | 141 | 20 | 8 | 29 | 81 | 125 | 41 | 196 | 8.6 |
| 1953 | .326 | .465 | .612 | 436 | 110 | 142 | 19 | 8 | 30 | 75 | 111 | 38 | 189 | 7.3 |
| 1954 | .320 | .458 | .578 | 403 | 96 | 129 | 16 | 8 | 24 | 65 | 100 | 33 | 177 | 7.5 |
| 1955 | .308 | .440 | .509 | 373 | 90 | 115 | 13 | 1 | 20 | 58 | 86 | 31 | 153 | 5.1 |
| 1956 | .308 | .433 | .506 | 344 | 79 | 106 | 12 | 1 | 18 | 49 | 74 | 27 | 140 | 4.3 |
| 1957 | .290 | .394 | .438 | 317 | 64 | 92 | 9 | 1 | 12 | 41 | 52 | 24 | 129 | 2.2 |
| 1958 | .285 | .375 | .423 | 291 | 53 | 83 | 8 | 1 | 10 | 33 | 40 | 21 | 119 | 1.3 |
| 1959 | .277 | .365 | .386 | 267 | 48 | 74 | 6 | 1 | 7 | 30 | 35 | 18 | 107 | 0.3 |
| 1960 | .271 | .350 | .367 | 229 | 34 | 62 | 5 | 1 | 5 | 22 | 27 | 15 | 96 | -0.3 |
| Year | BA | OBP | SLG | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | SO | OPS+ | WAR |
| ZiPS RoC | .331 | .478 | .588 | 7331 | 2159 | 2424 | 360 | 97 | 444 | 1446 | 2024 | 647 | 194 | 135.5 |
| Actual | .340 | .482 | .631 | 5602 | 1257 | 1905 | 371 | 38 | 394 | 1324 | 1526 | 513 | 191 | 94.0 |
| Year | BA | OBP | SLG | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | SO | OPS+ | WAR |
| ZiPS Career | .336 | .479 | .600 | 9435 | 2700 | 3173 | 514 | 130 | 571 | 1961 | 2519 | 843 | 194 | 171.9 |
| Actual | .344 | .482 | .634 | 7706 | 1798 | 2654 | 525 | 71 | 521 | 1839 | 2021 | 709 | 188 | 130.4 |
ZiPS actually didn’t do too terribly projecting Ted! The computer in 1942 didn’t know just how good he’d still be in 1960; 18 years is a really long time to project a player out. Williams now passes the 3,000-hit mark and adds 50 home runs. The extra playing time is enough to get him to 171.9 wins, pushing him past Ruth at the top of the leaderboard.
And it still rips Williams off a bit. In truth, we’re not looking for a career projection for Ted Williams, just one for 1943-1945 and 1952-1953. We actually know he was awesome in 1960, so why give him ZiPS’ prediction for 1960? Using projections instead of reality gives him a few better performances in the mid-40s, but he loses more from not getting credit for his amazingly gentle decline.
But never fear. One of the projects I had time to work on during our sad baseball interregnum this year was an addition to ZiPS to make it able to do things backwards. So to fill in Ted’s war years, I ask ZiPS to project what performances from 1943 to 1945 are most likely to lead to his actual results from 1946 to 1951. I then repeat the process for 1952 and 1953.
| Year | BA | OBP | SLG | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | SO | OPS+ | WAR |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1939 | .327 | .436 | .609 | 565 | 131 | 185 | 44 | 11 | 31 | 145 | 107 | 64 | 160 | 7.1 |
| 1940 | .344 | .442 | .594 | 561 | 134 | 193 | 43 | 14 | 23 | 113 | 96 | 54 | 162 | 6.7 |
| 1941 | .406 | .553 | .735 | 456 | 135 | 185 | 33 | 3 | 37 | 120 | 147 | 27 | 235 | 11.0 |
| 1942 | .356 | .499 | .648 | 522 | 141 | 186 | 34 | 5 | 36 | 137 | 145 | 51 | 216 | 11.6 |
| 1943 | .353 | .495 | .565 | 519 | 144 | 183 | 35 | 6 | 21 | 109 | 142 | 42 | 206 | 10.2 |
| 1944 | .349 | .494 | .581 | 516 | 142 | 180 | 37 | 7 | 23 | 120 | 144 | 40 | 207 | 10.5 |
| 1945 | .341 | .489 | .604 | 513 | 140 | 175 | 39 | 9 | 26 | 125 | 144 | 40 | 212 | 10.8 |
| 1946 | .342 | .497 | .667 | 514 | 142 | 176 | 37 | 8 | 38 | 123 | 156 | 44 | 215 | 11.8 |
| 1947 | .343 | .499 | .634 | 528 | 125 | 181 | 40 | 9 | 32 | 114 | 162 | 47 | 205 | 10.5 |
| 1948 | .369 | .497 | .615 | 509 | 124 | 188 | 44 | 3 | 25 | 127 | 126 | 41 | 189 | 8.5 |
| 1949 | .343 | .490 | .650 | 566 | 150 | 194 | 39 | 3 | 43 | 159 | 162 | 48 | 191 | 9.9 |
| 1950 | .317 | .452 | .647 | 334 | 82 | 106 | 24 | 1 | 28 | 97 | 82 | 21 | 168 | 4.3 |
| 1951 | .318 | .464 | .556 | 531 | 109 | 169 | 28 | 4 | 30 | 126 | 144 | 45 | 164 | 7.1 |
| 1952 | .351 | .495 | .661 | 433 | 96 | 152 | 26 | 3 | 34 | 112 | 123 | 33 | 210 | 9.4 |
| 1953 | .364 | .506 | .723 | 390 | 86 | 142 | 23 | 3 | 37 | 101 | 112 | 30 | 224 | 8.8 |
| 1954 | .345 | .513 | .635 | 386 | 93 | 133 | 23 | 1 | 29 | 89 | 136 | 32 | 201 | 8.4 |
| 1955 | .356 | .496 | .703 | 320 | 77 | 114 | 21 | 3 | 28 | 83 | 91 | 24 | 209 | 7.1 |
| 1956 | .345 | .479 | .605 | 400 | 71 | 138 | 28 | 2 | 24 | 82 | 102 | 39 | 172 | 6.3 |
| 1957 | .388 | .526 | .731 | 420 | 96 | 163 | 28 | 1 | 38 | 87 | 119 | 43 | 233 | 9.4 |
| 1958 | .328 | .458 | .584 | 411 | 81 | 135 | 23 | 2 | 26 | 85 | 98 | 49 | 179 | 4.5 |
| 1959 | .254 | .372 | .419 | 272 | 32 | 69 | 15 | 0 | 10 | 43 | 52 | 27 | 114 | 0.0 |
| 1960 | .316 | .451 | .645 | 310 | 56 | 98 | 15 | 0 | 29 | 72 | 75 | 41 | 190 | 3.4 |
| Year | BA | OBP | SLG | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | SO | OPS+ | WAR |
| Total | .345 | .485 | .628 | 9976 | 2387 | 3445 | 679 | 98 | 648 | 2369 | 2665 | 882 | 195 | 177.3 |
This time, we get Ted an extra 800 or so hits and more than a hundred extra homers. He even gets an additional point of batting average, finishing at .345. First in career WAR, the walk record, and a top 10 ranking for homers and hits feels a bit more representative of the feats of arguably the best pure hitter baseball has ever seen, doesn’t it?
Dan Szymborski is a senior writer for FanGraphs and the developer of the ZiPS projection system. He was a writer for ESPN.com from 2010-2018, a regular guest on a number of radio shows and podcasts, and a voting BBWAA member. He also maintains a terrible Twitter account at @DSzymborski.
>One of the projects I had time to work on during our sad baseball interregnum this year was an addition to ZiPS to make it able to do things backwards.
Well that’s certainly an eye opening thought. That’s really impressive of you.
I enjoy your shakedown tests of ZIPS. And will certainly follow along with this series as long as you’re doing them!
I’d love to see SPiZ do a backwards projection on Ichiro’s pre-MLB years.
That is a great idea actually. I was thinking something like Rich Hill… A late arrival…
But the textbook example would be Ichiro…
Mr. Dan Szymborski actually did a ZiPS for Ichiro back in 2009.
https://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/oracle/discussion/zips_career_projections_derek_jeter_ichiro_suzuki_and_dickie_thon/
Mr Szymborksi did a second Ichiro ZiPS in 2011. Ichiro could have challenged Pete Rose’s career hit record had he entered the majors at age 20-21.
https://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/oracle/discussion/zips_record_watch_ichiro_suzuki
It strikes me as very counter-intuitive that ZIPS would project Williams for LESS power in his prime years of 1943-45. After 37 and 36 home runs in 1941 and 1942, ZIPS essentially projects Williams to lose ONE THIRD of his demonstrated power even as he is entering his prime years. Williams then actually hit 38 homes runs upon his return in 1946, which casts even more suspicion on ZIPS in my mind.
Did 1943-1945 ZIPS Williams face regular MLB pitching? Or did ZIPS know that MLB talent was diluted by the war? If the latter, I’d expect Williams’ power numbers to be even higher given less overall pitching talent in those years.
So yeah – the “fill in the blanks” ZIPS approach projects Williams for more than 100 additional home runs, but I’d think it should be even higher.
League offense was way down during the war years, much of it has been speculated from the lesser-quality baseballs used during this period. It’s not just a player pool thing either as offensive levels from players who didn’t go also declined. ZiPS uses the actual league levels of offense.
Was league offense down…or was Ted Williams simply not present! 🙂
In considering what he would have done if he was not off to war, we have to consider what baseball he would have been playing . First scenario is that there was no war, in which case, it is reasonable to expect his missing seasons would have been comparable to those before and after the war. Second scenario, there was a war but Williams stayed home and got to face weaker wartime pitching. I know wartime league offense was down, but it I suspect that a lot of players in their prime years were at war. And Williams led the league in ’42 with 36 HRs in a semi-war year — I would suspect more of the same from ’42-’45. Either way, I think Zips is shorting Teddie.
When I was a wee lad I was fishing with my grandfather and his buddy. As we drifted along my grandfather’s buddy said “look at those two guys sitting on the bank. That’s Ted Williams and Bobby Doerr.” I waved, they waved back.
There goes Ted Williams, the greatest hitter who ever lived.
It looks like Williams would have been first all time in runs scored and runs batted in as well. His position in hits (third) and home runs (second) would have been even more impressive when he retired as well.
Joey is a somewhat decent comp to Williams but Votto’s home run power isn’t in Williams class.
With 679 career home runs I wonder if Williams comes back in 1961 to chase Ruth’s 714 home runs or at least clear 700 home runs?
I’m fine with you tossing Joey Votto’s name out there in the intro, but I’ve long been of the opinion that Wade Boggs would be the closest approximation (as a hitter) if he’d had any power.
On a side note Frank Thomas was often called the “right handed Ted Williams” or the “closest hitter to Ted Williams”.
From 1990-1997 the Big Hurt hit per 162 G:
.330/.452/.600, 182 OPS+, 39 HR, 129 RBI, 119 R, 38 doubles, 191 H, 133 BB
That’s some Ted Williams type hitting right there.
I should note that it’s been 12 years since Thomas was in the majors and 21 for Boggs (sorry for making you feel old, it certainly makes me feel old that 1980 was closer to Ted’s career than 2020 to Boggs). Front offices have changed a lot in the last decade!
We are old, Dan. Haha. And that’s ok. I’m the same age as Frank Thomas. When he debuted in 1990 I remember he was a revelation. I’m a huge baseball history buff. I obsessively read all the baseball history books I could get my hands on. And growing up as a kid in the late 1970’s and early 1980’s I often wondered why the current stars couldn’t put up the huge numbers that the old time stars did? No one it seemed could hit for tremendous power, hit for high averages, and drawing a huge number of walks. Mike Schmidt and George Brett were my guys but why couldn’t Schmidt hit .340-.350 like Jimmie Foxx? Or why couldn’t George Brett hit 40 home runs? Obviously, this was before I started reading the Bill James Annual Baseball Abstracts and began to understand park effects, improvement in league quality, and the increasing strikeout rates. So when Frank Thomas arrived on the scene in 1990 I was simply amazed. Here was a hitter who hit like Ted Williams! I truly hope we’ll see another Ted Williams or Frank Thomas like hitter someday.
Yeah, I didn’t bring up Thomas (who was a favorite, see below response to Dan’s response) because of the handedness, but he was pretty close to the same, right down to the occasional surliness with reporters and indifference to defense.
To get a Wade Boggs comparison, you gotta prove you can drink 64 beers on a cross-country flight.
“May he rest in peace.”
Do it for Boss Hogg!
Wade Boggs would roll in his grave if he could see your behavior.
And eat a chicken before every game.
I’m with Adam C (coincidentally, I’m Adam M) in the olds, though not quite as. Summer of 1988 was the first year I got a pack of baseball cards at the tender age of not-quite-eleven. Weird, since I’d been playing organized baseball since about six and my grade school years were filled with baseball biographies and compendiums checked out from the library.
I, too, was mesmerized by Frank Thomas – his size, obviously, but his prowess at the plate from the very beginning. I remember reading multiple articles in Beckett and various other sources about he and Robin Ventura learning the refinements of their swings from Walt Hriniak who studied at the feet of Charlie Lau.
That 1994 year was one for the ages, or should have been. Matt Williams threatening Maris, the race between Bagwell and Thomas for best hitter alive. The early 90’s were an interesting time to live in Houston, baseball-wise.
Boggs is a legend!
The article mentioned Sam Rice, so I have to bring this up: If Sam Rice’s parents had gone to visit his wife one day, rather than the other way around, Rice would almost certainly be in the top 5 all time in career hits.
On April 21, 1912, 22-year-old Rice was playing a game for the independent Galesburg Pavers of the Central Association; he was an outfielder/pitcher who was a better hitter than pitcher. Rice’s wife took their two children, aged 3 years and 18 months, to visit Rice’s parents in Indiana, 20 miles away from Rice’s home. While they were visiting, a tornado hit Rice’s parents’ home, killing Rice’s wife, both of Rice’s children, Rice’s mother, Rice’s father, and Rice’s two younger sisters. Understandably, the loss of SEVEN immediate family members at once sent Rice into a horrific depression, which it took him years to recover from. As a result of his depression and resultant lack of focus, he was only able to really start his major league career at age 27, in 1917. After being drafted into military service in 1918 during World War I and missing almost the entire season, he would go on to be a productive player well into his 40’s, retiring at age 44 with a total of 2,987 hits, despite only having one full season before age 29. He later remarked that he had no idea that he was so close to having 3,000 hits for his career, and would have hung on longer to reach the milestone if he’d been aware of it.
Absent Rice’s depression, it’s likely that he would have made the major leagues for good in 1913 rather than 1917. Assuming (and this part is a bit murky) that he had immediately started out as an outfielder rather than a pitcher, a rough ballpark estimate that he’d have gotten 177 hits per year from 1913-1916 (which is what he got in 1917) would leave his career hit total at 3,633. That would have placed him second all-time to Ty Cobb at his retirement, and would currently have him in 4th place all-time, behind Pete Rose, Ty Cobb, and Hank Aaron, and in a virtual tie with Stan Musial.
Neat story, but it’s a huge amount of psychological projection required to believe this narrative.
Psychological inference from “killing Rice’s wife, both of Rice’s children, Rice’s mother, Rice’s father, and Rice’s two younger sisters” is not such rocket science.
Sam Rice looks like a great one for a retro-ZIPS.
What in the world are you talking about? Rice was so despondent after his entire family died that he stopped playing baseball and wandered the country doing odd jobs for a year before enlisting in the navy. He only got back into baseball by playing on the ship team for the battleship he was stationed on after not playing at all for almost 2 years.
Nearby army mate, as the company anticipates potential battle while waiting in France: “I’ve heard this war is hell. I wonder whether we’ll be able to manage afterwards, if it’s as bad as they say”.
Rice, with a sigh: “Maybe. But I’ve seen worse. Life must go on…”
My god, look at the runs projections. The first projection gives him 5 seasons of 170+ runs! Also, it was Yaz who was the last Triple Crown winner for so long, not Ted.
Can you run this for Mays? He lost two years for his 21-22 age seasons for military service and had 10.3 fWAR upon his return (10.5 bWAR). He might be pushed over Williams under the same assumption.
Wow this was an amazing article! Ted Williams-the greatest baseball player to ever live and no one will change my mind. I’m 28 years old. Wish I couldve seen him play…
Could you do a ZiPS projection for Matt Murton after the 2006 season as he was benched in favor of Cliff Floyd and Alfonso Soriano?
I have made this point, without the projections, MANY times on reddit. Maybe now some of the non-believers will accept Ted as the one true GOAT.
I mean, he was maybe the greatest hitter of all time, but he was by his own admission an indifferent fielder and the numbers bear that out. Contrary to popular belief, Babe Ruth was a passably decent outfielder until the last few years of his career, helped out by a plus-plus arm.
on reddit
Found the problem.
I’ve fantasized about this specific article for years, so thanks for that.
So, taking Williams’s actual career, and replacing the five war years with the average of the two ZiPS projections, I get 127.8 actual WAR + 48.9 projected WAR = 176.7. That’d be the most offensive WAR of all time, although Ruth’s pitching career still puts him over with 180.8 total.
Williams essentially lost as much WAR to military service as Jim Rice put up in his whole career.