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Pitching IS the Trademark of Braves Organization

Late last week, I posted a scouting report on Atlanta Braves third-base prospect Edward Salcedo. I received several comments voicing concern over the lack of hitters throughout the organization’s minor-league levels.

But as much as I understand the frustration (I certainly don’t enjoy watching a starting lineup full of non-prospects and organizational players), I’d urge readers to adopt a more big-picture view of the Braves organizational philosophy. And it’s really quite a brilliant strategy: leverage the ability to develop arms better than anybody else to fill needs at the big-league level. After all, ultimately it’s about World Series rings and not how many sluggers an organization has on its Double-A roster, isn’t it?

At the trade deadline, I was shocked that the Braves were able to acquire Michael Bourn without dealing a single “key” prospect. Sure, Paul Clemens (SP), Brett Oberholtzer (SP), Juan Abreu (RP) and Jordan Schafer (CF) might all wind up being big-leaguers in some capacity. but Michael Bourn is a top-flight center fielder who posted the second-highest WAR at the position between 2009 to 2011. For me, the sum of the parts who were dealt for Bourn didn’t equal one of the better center fielders in baseball.

Two years earlier, the Braves’ first attempt to acquire its center fielder of the future failed miserably — though it fit the Braves’ organizational M.O. at the time. Nate McLouth, fresh off a 3.9 WAR in 2008 with the Pittsburgh Pirates, was dealt in the midst of his second consecutive 3+ WAR campaign for a solid, but not spectacular package of prospects that included Charlie Morton (SP), Jeff Locke (SP) and Gorkys Hernandez (CF). In essence, the difference between Bourn and McLouth on paper was the addition of a hard-throwing reliever in Abreu to offset the difference in WAR.

Go back even further, Tim Hudson was acquired from the Athletics for two pitching prospects and an outfielder as well. The key piece in that deal was Dan Meyer, who was expected to fill the roles of Mark Mulder or Barry Zito.

After all, the Atlanta Braves is an organization capable of winning a World Series next season. And with the likes of Julio Teheran, Randall Delgado, Arodys Vizcaino and Mike Minor, the trade possibilities are limitless should Atlanta target a player and decide they have to have him. Of course that scenario already backfired once with the Mark Teixeira deal, but that’s beside the point. Arms equal trade leverage and Atlanta has enough pitching to throw its weight around.

If the Cincinnati Reds are serious about dealing Joey Votto, Frank Wren’s number is on Walt Jocketty’s speed dial. If Atlanta thought Jose Reyes was the missing piece and worth having at any cost, a deal most likely would have been made. Had the Braves coveted Adrian Gonzalez, a Freeman, Teheran and Vizcaino package would have crushed anything the Boston Red Sox could have offered, in terms of prospects. For me, the Braves are baseball’s most powerful organization.

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For that reason, the fact the Braves don’t really have any top-flight hitting prospects isn’t that important. If Atlanta has a need at the big-league level, the pitching prospects are there to fix holes while a handful of potential regulars (Tyler Pastornicky, Edward Salcedo, Christian Bethancourt and Andrelton Simmons) marinate in the minors. The next wave might not be as exciting as Freddie Freeman or Jason Heyward, but average regulars at minimum salaries still provide tremendous value.

It’s easy to point to the aging Braves and assume the window of opportunity for World Series contention is closing. But that would be missing the point, because the Braves are a very healthy organization.

Throughout the off-season, my reports on Atlanta’s hitting prospects will be cast in a grim light — which is valid when viewed on a one-off basis. But the ultimate indicator of success or failure is whether a team contends for — and wins — World Series rings. The Braves should be in the mix for years to come. In writing about prospects, I find myself less interested in standings and more impressed with who’s on a team’s top-20 prospects list. The realities of Major League Baseball couldn’t be further from the truth.





Mike Newman is the Owner/Managing Editor ofROTOscouting, a subscription site focused on baseball scouting, baseball prospects and fantasy baseball. Follow me onTwitter. Likeus on Facebook.Subscribeto my YouTube Channel.

82 Comments
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JD
15 years ago

Michael Bourn sucks.

Signed,

wOBA and wRC+

Telo
15 years ago
Reply to  JD

A CF with a 115 wRC+ gives me a semi. Dunno about you.

JD
15 years ago
Reply to  Telo

I guess with the game becoming less offensive overall he doesn’t quite suck but his 98 career wRC+ and sub .90 ISO take away some of the ‘semi’ potential, for me anyway. UZR hated him this year but it might be an outlier looking at his career.

Telo
15 years ago
Reply to  Telo

Though I will say he looks to be about a wRC+ 100 true talent, assuming a 340-345 babip.

And even so, 4 WAR looks like a lock in 2012, under team control. Sign me up.

JD
15 years ago
Reply to  Telo

He is in the same class overall as BJ Upton, Adam Jones, Peter Bourjos and Cameron Maybin – I’d take those four over him.

I guess CF has become that weak where he is considered a ‘top-flight’ talent at the position.

Gone are Beltran, T.Hunter, Edmonds, V.Wells, Sizemore etc.

Telo
15 years ago
Reply to  Telo

I’m taking Bourn all day over Upton and Jones, and probably over Maybin as well.

Jackson
15 years ago
Reply to  Telo

The only person I’d maybe take over Bourn from that list is Upton…and thats a big maybe cause he had a subpar 2011. Michael Bourn is one of the best, if not the best centerfielders in the game, plain and simple.

DavidCEisen
15 years ago
Reply to  Telo

Bourn is very good, but he is hardly on the same level as Kemp, Ellsbury, and Granderson. He is also below Victorino, Hamilton, and McCutchen. Centerfield as a position is probably the strongest its been in a long time.

SKob
15 years ago
Reply to  Telo

DavidCEisen, you best not be talkin bout D-fense!

That list contains a few atrocities in CF! Offensively I would argue Granderson is streaky and fluky, while Victorino might not be as valuable. So I would call him top 5 with some true offensive superstars as the only ones he looks up to!

No way I like Upton, Jones, Bourjos, or Maybin better!

Louis
15 years ago
Reply to  JD

WAR disagrees.

Adam
15 years ago
Reply to  JD

Leaving aside the fact that defense and baserunning help win games too, Bourn has been an above-average hitter in CF over the past three seasons.

JD
15 years ago
Reply to  Adam

Sorry, the Braves didn’t make the playoffs so he isn’t valuable.

cs3
15 years ago
Reply to  Mike Newman

The Cardinals concur.

SKob
15 years ago
Reply to  Mike Newman

There was very little merrit to that Cardinals comment. It’s not like he imploded like McClouth did.

SKob
15 years ago
Reply to  Mike Newman

There was very little merrit to that Cardinals comment. It’s not like he imploded like McClouth did.

Telo
15 years ago

Is there a secret to the recent minor league pitching success? Talent evaluation? Development? Luck? All three? Why not hitters? In any case, I’d certainly feel great about my team going forward if I were a Braves fan.

Anon21
15 years ago
Reply to  Telo

Certainly I think their player development of pitching prospects is off the charts. To take one example, they basically lucked into acquiring Brandon Beachy, but it was the minor league coaching staff that developed him into a Major League caliber starting pitcher.

david
15 years ago
Reply to  Telo

Why have they not developed hitters?

Just to be certain, you’re asking that about the team that has a pair of 22-year-olds with 8.2 rWAR already at the major league level?

Part of the reason they don’t have any top flight hitters at the upper level of their system is that Freeman and Heyward beat high school classmates who will populate this offseason’s top 100 lists to the majors by 1-2 years.

MC
15 years ago

Yeah I’m not a big fan of Michael Bourn either. I do like Rick Ankiel though who would be much cheaper. If Ankiel can hit like .245-.260 he could be quite a valuable player IMO, at least defensively. Bourn doesn’t have enough power.

Rob
15 years ago
Reply to  MC

I really hope this post was intended as a joke. I want no part of what Rick Ankiel is selling.

Dang
15 years ago
Reply to  MC

You have to be joking, I’ve loved Ankiel since he was pitching for the Cards, but let’s be honest he’s not very good. ATL had him last year, had an option they declined and never tried to resign him. There’s a long list of reasons why. Outside of the rocket God gave him for a left arm, his defense isn’t anything to get excited about

Ryan
15 years ago
Reply to  MC

A guy who has league average production with the bat who plays one of the toughest positions as good as anyone on the planet and also leads in stolen bases (with an 80% clip, no less)…..PASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

MC
15 years ago
Reply to  MC

No I was not joking about Ankiel. I said he *could* be a bargain for the right price, i.e. .5M-1.5M a year, if he can hit like .245-.260. So there are some if’s in there. But basically he has a terrific arm, good speed, good defender. Basically I think he’s a good defensive outfielder b/c of his arm. Finally, he usually hits better against righties than lefties, so I think he could be a somewhat valuable platoon player, esp. given his great arm.

Obviously Bourn is a much better player than Ankiel, but I was merely saying that the price for Ankiel would probably be so low or is so low now, that he would be a very cheap player with some nice upside if he can improve his offense a little bit.

I never said that Ankiel was better than Bourn or that Bourn’s not a good player. But Bourn is not #1 on my list of center fielders; he’s just not my type of player and that’s my opinion, take it or leave it.

Wood
15 years ago

I don’t know that I would call the Braves “aging”. Just the opposite, really. I think most people argue that the Braves’ World Series window is just now opening. Other than that, good points.

shred the gnar
15 years ago
Reply to  Wood

Exactly what I was thinking.

Anon21
15 years ago
Reply to  Wood

They fielded an oldish infield last season, but I wouldn’t expect that situation to last past 2012. Indeed, Pastornicky might get the starting SS job out of spring training, which would lower the age of their position player group pretty significantly. And, as Mike points out, they’ve got an embarrassment of young pitching riches; Hudson will be the only post-arb pitcher in their 2012 rotation, and 2 or 3 of their starters will be in either their rookie or second years of ML experience.

TK
15 years ago
Reply to  Wood

Projecting a team past the next 3 years is pretty foolish, and the Braves look good for the next 3 years, so I’m not sure I understand this “window closing” talk either.

Tommy
15 years ago
Reply to  Mike Newman

We all hope Lowe retires, we have a replacement for Chipper in Prado and I believe we can find a left fielder. We do have potential replacements for Agon. Uggla and McCann will be tough, the hope is that we can find someone at second and Bethancourt can become a major league catcher. We also have the pitching to replace Hudson

blurba
15 years ago
Reply to  Mike Newman

Look at how young their ‘pen is. Now look at how young their rotation is getting. The next wave of arms is kind of what you’re article is about, and they’re all more or less ready for the bigs. Given the team’s aversion to free agent signings I would think the mostly likely scenario would involve the team finding room on the club for most of those young arms. Almost all of their positions are filled for next season, so it’d have to be an absolute perfect OFer coming their way in order for them to let go of their big pitching prospects.

Hudson’s 36, but it’s rare for a MLB rotation to not have a veteran, and while Lowe is 38, Wren’s already said he won’t be in the rotation. Chipper is obviously old, but the rest of the group doesn’t really qualify. Uggla will be 31, which isn’t young, but it’s hard to call him old. Even if Gonzo is on the team, I would expect him to be a back-up by mid-season, due to Pastornicky’s break-out this past year at AAA. That’d mean they’d have 2/3 of their lineup with guys in their 20’s, most of them early to mid 20’s. This team is absolutely getting younger.

Antonio Bananas`
15 years ago
Reply to  Mike Newman

Lowe and Chipper, yes. Gonzo will be gone and is part time, they have pretty much only right side infield prospects, so those won’t be hard to fill. I don’t think Uggla is going to be “aging” for at least 3 more years considering he’s a big guy so getting spiked won’t (or shouldn’t) hurt him as much. McCann, yea, catchers age more but McCann doesn’t get injured very often.

On the flip side you have two 22 year olds, and they could probably produce an entire pitching staff (not just rotation) of guys under 27. When I look at a team, I look at guys pre-prime, guys in their prime, and guys post-prime. For the next 3-5 years, the Braves have a roster of mostly guys either pre-prime or in their prime.

If you wanna talk about old, why is no one talking about the Cardinals? Jon Jay and Allen Craig are called “young players” by the media here and they’re like 26 and 27, which means they probably won’t get a whole lot better than they are now. Carp, Pujols, Holliday, Berk, even Waino are all either post-prime or in the late stages of their prime. Pretty sure they extended Furcal too.

The difference between the Braves and Cards is prospect. The Cards have been bottom 5-10 the past few years depending on who you believe. The Braves have the prospects to replace through either a direct call up or by trade. Cards don’t. Shelby Miller is really all they have as far as “super prospects” go.

I wouldn’t call the Braves a “powerful” organization though simply because they are middle-bottom half in payroll. Ted needs to buy the team back.

JT Grace
15 years ago
Reply to  Wood

I was getting ready to post the same thing. Lowe will likely be gone next year leaving Hudson as the ONLY above 28 pitcher on the staff. The rotation is full of young starters and the pen is full of young relievers. The offense features Heyward 22, Freeman 22, McCann 28, and Prado 28. If Gonzalez is replaced by the age 21 Pastornicky that makes them even younger. Uggla isn’t young….but he isn’t old either. Chipper is the only truly “old guy” on the offense….and Prado is a good back-up for him. The team just needs to get a good young 4th outfielder and they will be set next season.

Jonathan Seok
15 years ago

I don’t really consider the Braves to bad at developing hitters. After all, in the last two years they have produced both Heyward and Freeman. How many orgs in the past two years have put a pair of bats as good as them on the field in the past two years??? Royals maybe? Its the mix of old age and trades/roster/free agency moves that have not worked out as plan that’s sunk Braves hitting not the farm (see Gonzalez, Uggla (during the 1st half), Jones, McLouth, K. Johnson, Kawakami, Lowe).

Rob
15 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan Seok

While there are questions about both of them of them after this past season, SF has produced Posey and Belt over the past couple of years. Probably wouldn’t take the two over Heyward and Freeman, but if you threw in Sandoval it’s suddenly a conversation at least.

Adam
15 years ago
Reply to  Jonathan Seok

Yeah, that’s the thing: the Braves in 2012 will graduate their third position-player starter in three years (Pastornicky). That’s not bad when you consider how much value they’re getting from their homegrown pitching talents (Hanson, Beachy, Minor, Medlen, Teheran, Vizcaino, and Delgado, as well as Venters and Kimbrel).

Nitram Odarp
15 years ago
Reply to  Adam

Pastornicky is far from a guarantee to be a starter, especially if we’re restricting the conversation to just next year.

Louis
15 years ago

To be fair, the Tex deal was before Wren was calling the shots.

Antonio Bananas`
15 years ago
Reply to  Mike Newman

The deal is bad in hindsight. How many times do 3/4 prospects turn out as good as Andrus, Feliz, and now Matt Harrison have turned out? Salty was expendable, Tex COULD have brought them a World Series. If only 1 of those prospects pan out (which is typically the case) and the Braves win the World Series (which was a decent possibility), then that trade doesn’t look so bad.

That said, I’m now a Rangers fan because I follow the Braves and their system. Everytime I see the Rangers, I day dream about having Andrus on the infield and Feliz in the pen along with Kimbrel and Venters.

Brandon
15 years ago

I love what Wren is doing in Atlanta.Even though we choked this year, I am very hopeful for the future… we just need to try and get one solid bat this offseason.

Thomas
15 years ago

this is totally off topic, but I had a friend who is a brain surgeon and went to Harvard tell me that Westmoreland will probably play next year and have the same career he would if he hadn’t gotten injured, if this is true, I find this extremely interesting, as he is a total beast, has an unlimited power ceiling, blazing speed, great defense, I think he would be a top 5 prospect now if not for the surgery as i think he has a legit chance to go 30-30 with 15 UZR defense, and maybe 7 WAR

Zach Kolodin
15 years ago

“After all, the Atlanta Braves is an organization capable of winning a World Series next season.”
“But that would be missing the point, because the Braves are a very healthy organization.”

Which is the correct usage here? “The Braves are…” or “The Braves is…”? This has always boggled my mind (especially as a fan of the Red Sox, whose individual players are Red Sox, not Red Sock(s)).

Rob
15 years ago
Reply to  Zach Kolodin

The Braves organization “is”. The Braves “are”.

Neuter Your Dogma
15 years ago

“For me, the Braves are baseball’s most powerful organization.”

Only if they spend more.

David WiersMember since 2016
15 years ago

What can you tell us of what you know about the Braves pitchers work out routines? I know as “recently” as 2004, they did not incorporate long toss the way Rick Peterson did. I only remember this from Tim Hudson emphatically saying it in Aces. Do the Braves do anything viewed as unconventional by the rest of baseball in preparing their minor league pitchers?

Nitram Odarp
15 years ago
Reply to  David Wiers

They seem to place a lot of emphasis on changeup development and generally discourage the usage of the slider until, especially among their pitchers age 20 and younger.

Antonio Bananas`
15 years ago
Reply to  Nitram Odarp

I wonder if having Glavine in the office has anything to do with that. It was either him or Maddux or Smoltz who said “hitting is about timing, pitching is about disrupting timing”. Which would make sense with the changeup.

What I’m wondering is, with all the pitching prospects, how many really pan out. I think Atlanta sometimes gets their own prospects overrated on purpose in order to trade for them and steal a deal.

Another strenght the Braves seem to have is evaluating their own talent better than anyone else.

Sandy Kazmir
15 years ago

The Rays do the same exact thing and I’d argue that they’ve done it better. If you have arms you can get the other stuff.

Antonio Bananas`
15 years ago
Reply to  Sandy Kazmir

I agree, and everyone is on the Rays’ nuts for being amazing. You rarely hear people here (or anywhere) call Wren “one of the best GMs in the game”. It’s always Friedman and Anthopolous and every once in a while someone who is still impressed with Epstein’s ability to consistently win with a consistently top 4 payroll.

Phantom Stranger
15 years ago

It’s no secret around MLB that Atlanta’s minor league systems prepare pitchers for the big leagues more than other systems. The instruction on how to pitch and what to expect is just superior to most other teams. While they do draft well, it’s not like they have a monopoly on picking great talent year after year. They just do more with the talent they do draft than others.

It’s their system that has led to them souring on certain high-ceiling pitching talents. It doesn’t matter how talented you are, if you do not follow their philosophies you are going to be traded or released.

CircleChange11
15 years ago

For me, the Braves are baseball’s most powerful organization.

Said this before myself. I don’t understand why they are not focused on more and really studied.

nik
15 years ago
Reply to  CircleChange11

What’s so powerful about 6 straight years of not winning your division?

Louis
15 years ago
Reply to  nik

^ Phillies fan.

Antonio Bananas`
15 years ago
Reply to  nik

What’s so powerful about being the Yankees of the NL, buying 3/4 of your “amazing rotation” and not even getting out of the first round. I mean, the Braves and Phillies both won the same number of playoff series this year. Difference is, in 3 years, the Phillies will have a Cubs-like (old and expensive) roster.

TK
15 years ago
Reply to  nik

when you said “phillies fan” I think what you meant was “pathetic troll”

GMH
15 years ago

Is the perception of Atlanta’s ability to develop young arms greater than the reality? For example, Dan Meyer was a bust. He was a first-round pick, and Oakland ended up granting his release a few years after trading for him. He had one productive year (fluke) in 2009 with the Marlins as a LOOGY, and then he fell apart. He likely will never pitch in the Major Leagues again. Charlie Morton isn’t exactly mowing down NL hitters, and the clock on Jeff Locke’s development is ticking: he’s almost 24, he still hasn’t been able to command a secondary pitch, and he doesn’t have an overpowering fastball.

It makes me wonder if the following is true: Atlanta doesn’t seem to part with any good young pitchers, so other teams should be wary. If Frank Wren is willing to trade a pitcher from his farm system, he probably has made the determination that the dog won’t hunt.

obsessivegiantscompulsive
15 years ago
Reply to  GMH

Good point, I was thinking the same too.

A national columnist wrote something similar to this about the Giants after the Wheeler trade, about how our prospect pitchers that get traded rarely do much of anything after leaving the SF organization.

Tomas
15 years ago

Ballparks certainly help

Adam
15 years ago
Reply to  GMH

Well, they did part with Adam Wainwright.

CircleChange11
15 years ago
Reply to  Adam

… for a player that put up a 9 WAR season, leading the team to 96 Wins.

Thanks for Wainwright though.

Adam
15 years ago
Reply to  Adam

He said: Atlanta doesn’t seem to part with any good young pitchers, so other teams should be wary.

Is this true? No.

Not only did the Braves trade Wainwright, but they also dealt Harrison and Feliz in the Tex deal. Harrison would have been one of the Braves’ best pitchers this season. Morton, meanwhile, provided more value for less cost this season than McLouth did during his entire tenure with the Braves, and he wasn’t even the centerpiece of that deal. Years ago, the Braves also traded Jason Schmidt. And so on. As Mike points out, most young pitchers flame out. Only a few don’t, and so it has been with the young arms Atlanta has traded: most never made it while a few of them have succeeded to varying degrees.

GMH
15 years ago
Reply to  Mike Newman

Adam:

I am amused that you referenced Jason Schmidt, who was traded in 1996 to complete a multi-player deal to acquire Denny Neagle. When you have to go all the way back to 1996 to counter my argument – when Frank Wren was helping to build a World Series winner in Miami – then you have added weight to my argument.

Mike:

You wrote, “The fact is the vast majority of pitchers flame out and never make it in the first place for a variety of reasons.”

I agree; I would be a fool to disagree with that statement. But your core argument in this article is that Atlanta is better than other teams at developing young pitchers. Therefore, if your assertion is true, Atlanta should have far fewer pitchers “flame out.” So I’m not sure why you are using one of the truths of baseball – the extreme difficulty of projecting pitching prospects – to counter my argument that the perception of the Braves is greater than the reality.

The Braves drafted Charlie Morton out of high school in the third round. That isn’t exactly “coming out of nowhere.” Morton’s 2011 numbers were horribly skewed because the dude didn’t give up homers. An astute sabermetrics observer would compare 2011 to Morton’s previous work and conclude that 2011 was probably an anomaly. Morton’s ERA is likely to balloon when he regresses to the mean and gives up homers at a rate more in line with probability. Plus, Morton gets killed by lefties, which is an all too common limitation for righthanded sinker/slider pitchers. Unless he develops a great change up, Morton will not be in a MLB starting rotation for very long.

Ultimately, I’m not persuaded that the Braves actually do a better job than other organizations in developing young pitchers. But I believe that there is a perception by other organizations that this is true. I belileve this perception is largely due to the Smoltz and Glavine effect (plus Maddux, although he was already a Cy Young winner when the Braves signed him as a FA). And so the perception goes, A team that had three future Hall of Famers mowing hitters down for so many years must know something about developing pitchers, right? It couldn’t just be that the Braves were blessed by the Pitchers Fairy, i.e. good fortune.

In other words, it may be that the Braves should be commended for keeping Smoltz, Glavine, and Maddux content to stay in Atlanta for their prime years rather than anything the organization did to make them better pitchers.

Tomas
15 years ago
Reply to  Mike Newman

Braves have a knack for over valuing prospects. I remember a guy named Jose Capellan. This guy could throw 100mph, and was a very highly touted prospect. They trade him to the Brewers for Dan Kolb(who at the time was a successful closer). The guy was awful, and after bouncing around with a few organizations he was signed by a Korean professional baseball club.

Franceour, Boyer,are examples of guys with hype that haven’t lived up to it, Heyward better get it together or he’ll be next(mlb network was already putting him in the hall of fame.)

Julio Teheran has been compared to Pedro Martinez. I just don’t believe how good they say this prospects are anymore. The hype they put on them is enormous

Adam
15 years ago
Reply to  Mike Newman

I am amused that you referenced Jason Schmidt, who was traded in 1996 to complete a multi-player deal to acquire Denny Neagle. When you have to go all the way back to 1996 to counter my argument – when Frank Wren was helping to build a World Series winner in Miami – then you have added weight to my argument.

And yet you didn’t address any of the other names I mentioned, so I guess you’re hiding behind clever sarcasm instead of addressing the main point. The fact is, many of the young arms the Braves trade don’t pan out; a few, as is always the case, do. Like with everyone. There is no magic here. To be sure, as a Braves fan I wish there was: I’d love for all of the young guys Atlanta trades never to come back to bite them again. But as I have watched Wainwright dominate the NL for a few years, and as I watch the Rangers play in their second straight World Series, I can’t help but feel that somehow the Braves haven’t mastered the art of soothsaying.

Or is your point that Frank Wren specifically is the sneaky one other GMs should avoid, but not Schuerholz? If so, I’d say we’re dealing with what folks around here call “small sample size.”

Kampfer
15 years ago

The Braves must have some crazy good pitching coaches throughout their whole minor league system. They produce good, fantasy-relevant pitching in bunches like they grow on trees in Atlanta. And almost every single one of them have both high ceiling AND floor.

Efrim
15 years ago

Of course, if the Braves wanted to make a trade with the Rays, they probably just wouldn’t match up because they both have an immense amount of pitching.

I think it’s still a concern that they haven’t drafted well in terms of bats.

KDL
15 years ago
Reply to  Efrim

If the Braves and Rays have essentially the same strengths…why would they be looking to trade with each other in the first place.
Also there ARE 28 other teams…so, I’m not sure not being able to trade with the Rays is a serious flaw of the Braves organization.

Tomas
15 years ago

I would trade Jurrjens or Hanson before I touched the other guys. All they really need is a short term SS until Pastornicky takes over. That is off course, if Heyward and Prado bounce back from sub-par seasons. Maybe improve the bench and sign one left handed reliever.

Only if they had 7-10 million to spend(which they don’t).

Kris
15 years ago
Reply to  Tomas

The Braves should have some decent money to spend this off-season. With McLouth ($7 million), Gonzalez ($2.5 million), Linebrink ($2 million) and Kawakami ($7.3 million) coming off the books that should free up some cash even if payroll stays at ~$90 million. There will be some pay increases, and McLouth’s $1.5 million buyout but nothing major. If they can somehow dump Lowe (I know big if) and a portion of his $15 million dollar salary that’ll free up even more cash to get an impact bat and another arm for the ‘pen.

JT Grace
15 years ago
Reply to  Kris

Most of the money they save from losing McLouth, KK etc. will be eaten by the arb raises due for JJ, EOF, Prado, Bourn…as well as the contractual raises due for McCann and Uggla.

Antonio Bananas`
15 years ago
Reply to  Kris

Think I read somewhere they have 10-15 million to spend. I think it was on the Braves site with an interview with Wren in fact. I could be crazy, but it’d be awesome.

Maybe they can get out of Lowe’s contract by claiming he intentionally threw the season. How else do you explain his horrendous season? (don’t come back with FIP, BABIP, GB%, etc, it’s a joke)

Tomas
15 years ago
Reply to  Kris

Jurrjens a 3 million raise, Uggla 4 million, McCann 2 million, Prado 2.5 million, Bourn 2 million, Medlen 400k and O’flaherty 2 million. + some buyouts Nate Mclouth 1.25 million, Eric Hinske 100k. That’s about 17.25 million in raises(guessing arb raises).

McLouth ($7 million), Gonzalez ($2.5 million), Linebrink ($2 million), Sherril (1.2 million), Moylan (2 million), Hinske (1.35 million) and Kawakami ($7.3 million). That’s 23.35 million.

So essentially if payroll stays the same(which is the general consensus) you have a total of 6.1 million more or less to sign a starting SS, a backup middle infielder, a quality pinch hitter, and hopefully a left handed reliever.

That’s why I want them to trade Jurrjens, or dump some salary with Derek Lowe.