Calculating WAR Using RE24

On August 7, Randy Arozarena slashed a double to right. He came into second base at a trot, so evidently safe that he didn’t need to sweat it. As the camera focused on him, he turned and hyped up the dugout. There was nowhere else to look; there had been no runners on base and thus no other action to follow.
Things weren’t so sunny 10 days later. Arozarena batted with two on and two out, and a double would have been absolutely glorious. The runners would be off on contact, which meant the difference between a double and an out was two-plus runs — the two that would actually score, plus some chance of Arozarena himself scoring. But Arozarena struck out on a 1-2 slider from Bailey Falter, and the inning ended.
Advanced statistics don’t assess the value of a play in just one way. You can think about these two moments extremely differently depending on which metric you’d prefer to use. Our main offensive statistic, wRC+, ignores context on purpose. It works out the average value of a home run across all home runs hit in the majors in a given year, and uses that as the value for every home run. It does the same for every offensive outcome, in fact.
Win Probability Added zooms all the way in and focuses on how much a team’s chances of winning the game change on every single play. That double was huge at the time; the Mariners trailed by a run in the eighth inning, and Arozarena’s hit instantly put the tying run in scoring position. It was the second-most-positive offensive event the Mariners recorded all day, trailing only Cal Raleigh’s two-run blast that accounted for all the team’s scoring. Water is wet, candy is delicious, and the Mariners can’t score.
RE24 gets talked about less, but it’s an equally reasonable way of assigning offensive credit. It works off of base/out states. There are 24 of them: eight different ways runners can be arrayed on the bases across zero, one, or two outs. There’s intuitive appeal to this way of doing things. A deep fly out with one out and a man on third is really valuable, while the same ball with no one on or with two outs is just like a strikeout. Batters change behaviors based on the situation. Why wouldn’t we credit them for their ability to do that?
I’m not here to tell you which of these options you should prefer. I am here to tell you that I decided to use RE24 to power WAR and see how much our perception of hitters would change if we focused on what they did to affect the base/out state instead of treating their offense with pure context neutrality.
Using Arozarena wasn’t an idle starting point. He’s actually the hitter most affected by this switch, losing a whopping 1.67 WAR in this new way of looking at things. If you’re looking for a reason why, it’s pretty simple. With the bases empty, he’s hitting .231/.356/.426, comfortably above average. With runners on, he’s hitting .189/.296/.321. He’s batting only .125 with a runner on second base, the times when hits are most valuable.
On the other side of the ledger, Brandon Nimmo is having a solid season no matter how you look at it. His offense is down slightly from his career level, but it’s still above average, and he’s on pace to end up with 20-25 homers and an enviable OBP. If you consider the base/out context of his hits, things are much better than that. His WAR improves by 1.5 if you replace context-neutral offense with RE24. He’s the reverse Arozarena, in other words. With a runner on second, he’s batting .310. He walks quite a bit when there’s no one on base, but gets more aggressive when a hit would be most potent. He’s hitting singles when they’re most valuable.
In other words, the smoothing function performed by wRC+ specifically says that all singles are the same, but RE24 notes that they aren’t. It’s pretty clear to me that wRC+ does a good job of explaining the most elemental things about what make up a player’s offense, the things least likely to change; variation in base/out states is out of a hitter’s control, and their approach is pretty similar in many situations. Variance swamps signal; hitting a grand slam doesn’t tell us that much more about a player than hitting a solo home run, but RE24 counts them incredibly differently.
On the other hand, WAR isn’t all about understanding the stable parts of a hitter’s profile. If you want to use WAR to understand talent level, I think that wRC+ is the gold standard. You could use a different context-neutral statistic if you’d prefer – DRC+ or OPS+ or whatnot – but looking at things stripped of context does a great job of cutting through noise and focusing on key skills.
Let’s put it another way. I looked at the 2022 and 2023 seasons and took every hitter who batted at least 400 times in both years. I converted RE24 to a rate statistic (it’s a counting statistic by nature) by dividing by the number of plate appearances, then compared how internally consistent each statistic was. Of the variation in year two wRC+, 28.6% could be explained by year one variation. Only 15.9% of the variation in year two RE24/PA could be explained by year one variation. In other words, wRC+ is far more predictive of itself in the future.
This makes good sense, for the reasons I outlined above. It also explains why we use it as our marquee offensive statistic: It does a good job of showing which hitters are the best in a stable way. Context-neutral statistics have been part of baseball since the very beginning. Every single part of a slash line is context-neutral, and home run and stolen base totals are too. No one would ask how many home runs a player hit in each base/out state and try to use that to project their future home run rate in varying base/out states; they’d ask how many bombs the guy hit, period. The argument for wRC+ is pretty obvious.
But if you’re concerned not with talent level but with what happened in the past, the arguments for RE24 get better. Yes, in the long run, singles are worth about 0.71 runs more than making an out, but with a runner on second and two outs, they’re pretty obviously worth more than that. To evaluate what actually happened, which plays were of value to a team not for their predictive power of future outcomes but for what they did in the past, you probably have to consider context.
Another way of thinking about it is that at the team level, RE24 does a much better job of predicting run scoring than wRC+ (or Off, our measure of offensive value, because for inscrutable database reasons RE24 includes stolen bases and times caught stealing). More specifically, team RE24 has a 0.89 r-squared to team runs scored; almost all of the variation is explained by variation in RE24. Offensive runs still does a good job, at 0.79, but obviously including the context helps sharpen the correlation.
What does this all matter? In some sense, it doesn’t matter at all. You can say whatever you want statistically; it doesn’t change how the games are actually played. What statistic you prefer doesn’t make the outcome different. A lot of what we do here at FanGraphs is about predicting the future, whether it’s prospect rankings, trade value, or our analysis of player breakouts and breakdowns. For things like that, context-neutral statistics just provide more predictive power.
When you’re analyzing past value, though, I think you can make an argument for subbing in RE24 (or WPA if you’d prefer — I’ve actually made that argument before). Sure, in the long run Arozarena’s general level of offense will help increase run scoring, but in 2024, his actual results haven’t done so. From RE24’s perspective, he’s actually been below replacement level, if you account for how much of his positive production has come when it’s less important and how many bad outcomes have happened with runners aboard. Nimmo’s having a down year in terms of his true talent, but in terms of actual delivered value to the Mets offense this season, he’s been exceptional.
One of the cool things about WAR is that it’s just a skeleton that you can modify how you’d like. Different measure of offensive runs produced? Throw it in. Different defensive system? Sure, it can handle it. New positional adjustments? I promise you, WAR still works in a broad sense even if you think the first base adjustment is wrong.
This is a great example of that. If you want to use WAR to say who the best players are, our calculation of it is well adjusted for just that. You could improve it! You could overweight outcomes that are sticky and indicative of batter skill, and down-weight things where variance is king, like BABIP and, to some extent, defense. For the most part, though, our calculation of WAR is built around answering the question of who’s the best.
“Who’s helped their team the most” is a different question, but you can make WAR answer that too. You just need to swap in some new metrics, and again, it’s pretty easy to do so. RE24 is a good one, which is why I’m using it as an example today, but the key part is that you should make your version of WAR do what you want it to do, because it really can do pretty much anything.
I don’t want to leave you with that preachy paragraph, so let’s throw some lists in to close things out. Here are the 10 hitters whose WAR would increase by the most using RE24 in place of wRC+:
| Player | PA | WAR | RE24-WAR | Diff |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Brandon Nimmo | 537 | 2.77 | 4.27 | 1.49 |
| Spencer Steer | 532 | 1.67 | 3.09 | 1.42 |
| Vinnie Pasquantino | 531 | 1.44 | 2.68 | 1.25 |
| José Ramírez | 548 | 4.76 | 5.93 | 1.17 |
| Adley Rutschman | 520 | 2.83 | 3.93 | 1.11 |
| Corey Seager | 506 | 3.81 | 4.89 | 1.08 |
| Joey Meneses | 313 | -0.93 | 0.03 | 0.96 |
| Bobby Witt Jr. | 573 | 8.96 | 9.88 | 0.92 |
| TJ Friedl | 221 | 0.18 | 1.04 | 0.86 |
| Jake McCarthy | 374 | 3.02 | 3.84 | 0.83 |
And here are the 10 whose WAR would decline by the most:
| Player | PA | WAR | RE24-WAR | Diff |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Randy Arozarena | 519 | 1.23 | -0.44 | -1.67 |
| Adolis García | 517 | 0.04 | -1.41 | -1.45 |
| JJ Bleday | 517 | 2.45 | 1.05 | -1.40 |
| Tyler O’Neill | 363 | 2.19 | 0.85 | -1.35 |
| Colton Cowser | 446 | 3.32 | 2.00 | -1.32 |
| Paul Goldschmidt | 530 | 0.15 | -1.17 | -1.32 |
| Christopher Morel | 513 | -0.39 | -1.61 | -1.23 |
| Orlando Arcia | 479 | 0.86 | -0.37 | -1.23 |
| Jose Siri | 381 | 1.73 | 0.51 | -1.22 |
| Oneil Cruz | 479 | 3.09 | 1.90 | -1.19 |
And here are the top 10 overall players in terms of RE24-WAR:
| Player | PA | WAR | RE24-WAR | Diff |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Bobby Witt Jr. | 573 | 8.96 | 9.88 | 0.92 |
| Aaron Judge | 577 | 9.61 | 9.27 | -0.34 |
| Juan Soto | 583 | 7.78 | 8.00 | 0.22 |
| Francisco Lindor | 598 | 6.54 | 6.49 | -0.05 |
| José Ramírez | 548 | 4.76 | 5.93 | 1.17 |
| Gunnar Henderson | 588 | 6.74 | 5.93 | -0.81 |
| Ketel Marte | 500 | 5.39 | 5.76 | 0.37 |
| Shohei Ohtani | 587 | 6.26 | 5.69 | -0.57 |
| Jarren Duran | 592 | 6.03 | 5.54 | -0.49 |
| Corey Seager | 506 | 3.81 | 4.89 | 1.08 |
Lastly, as befits one of my janky statistical looks, here’s a complete leaderboard as of the games of August 25. You can do this on your own with a bit of Excel manipulation if you’d prefer to learn to fish, but hey, I might as well provide it for you in any case. Whatever your opinion on RE24 or any particular offensive statistic, I think that understanding how they work, and seeing how that theory looks when applied to the current season, is always worthwhile.
Ben is a writer at FanGraphs. He can be found on Bluesky @benclemens.
So Witt and Lindor are MVP? OK that sounds fine.
Love it! RE24 is great. It’s slightly different than the standard offensive WAR measurement, so it tells us something slightly different. It tells us a bit more about how much a single player is involved in the overall run production, while something like wRAA tells us more about the individual offensive production. It’s a subtle difference and there’s an argument that it makes more sense for awards seasons like this.
It’s also a much superior statistic to WPA for purposes like these. WPA is designed to measure how exciting a play is, and it does that very well. But because it is designed to calculate the excitement of a play in a specific moment, it’s weighting the value based on how important it seems at the time it occurred rather than how important it actually was. RE24 is more conservative by weighting it with base states but not based on inning, but because of that it’s not introducing all sorts of error into it.
RE24 is great. We need more articles about this stat.
I like it too. However it has similar flaws you are pointing out with WPA. You might ask WPA, why is a ninth-inning close-game home run worth more than a first inning home run? But you might ask RE24, if I got a bases-empty double, then you got a double, why’s your double better than my double? In both cases the answer is context.
It would seem a little odd to go basically just halfway with context. RE24 accounts for situation, but not for score. A two-out grand slam is the highest value for RE24, but if that is in a blowout, it matters less than a sac fly that walks off the game.
If I were to consider context for awarding the MVP, and my opinion is it should be minimally considered, I think WPA does a more complete job.
But even better is Championship Probability Added. Bobby Witt and Jurickson Profar are MVP!
I think that relies on too much projection. It also removes it from being a regular season award.
It also leaves out defense but it elevates Jurickson Profar so it must be awesome.
Nothing about Profar, since he was a prospect, has ever been awesome.
You clearly haven’t watched the Padres this year. He’s been fantastic.
My only gripe with using WPA is how much it’s influenced by the later innings of games. A 2 run home run in a game won by one run is worth just as much whether it comes in the third inning or ninth inning, but the ninth inning HR would carry a much higher WPA.
This is the problem with WPA, and it’s a really big one. If you were to calculate WPA retrospectively after the game was over it would be somewhat useful as a context-dependent measure of value. But that’s not really the point of WPA–the point of WPA is to quantitatively measure the excitement fans feel at different points in the game.
How would one even retrospectively calculate WPA?
If the winning team wins 4-3, are all 4 runs counted equally? If they win 5-3, is the 5th run worthless? Are all runs from the losing team worthless?
Am I overlooking some simple approach?
I say the best way to do it is to just look at how much each play increased the likelihood of scoring, based on the base-out states while ignoring the score.
I’m not sure I understand.
Is your point that there’s no good way to do it, so we might as well just stick with RE24 and forget about WPA?
Because I could possibly get on board with that. Just not sure if that’s what you’re saying
Yeah, that’s exactly what I’m saying – I just worded it in a pretentious way, haha
Retrospective WPA is kind of antithetical to the whole idea of WPA, but I think the stat you would be searching for would basically be RE24, reweighted.
I think you would have to take the RE24 contributions from each game and reweight based on the winning margin and total runs scored in a typical game vs that game. Maybe it gets a little more complicated than that, but something along those lines.
Either way, I’m guessing that with enough games, the reweighted RE24 would just trend toward actual RE24, maybe just differing a bit based on the run environment from year to year or a team’s overall strength in runs scored and runs allowed. So probably you end up with basically RE24.
Well sure, the current construction of WPA. It would be a pretty different stat. But maybe capturing what WPA might seem to at first glance?
I don’t understand your reworked idea fully. Why does it matter what scoring is like in typical games? To figure out how much each event figured on the game under question’s actual scoring?
And how the weighting handle bigger margins? If a team wins 4-1 or 8-1, do the 3rd and 4th runs matter less in the latter game than the first one? Even though we know after the fact that the opposing team only scored 1?
Why would NewRE24 move towards regular RE24? Because the main differences are mostly noisy things that will regress towards league averages? Does current WPA move towards RE24?
This is really interesting–the idea that if you used a “fixed” version of WPA it would look roughly the same as RE24. If so, then that’s even more evidence that RE24 is the stat we need for context-dependent value.
I think 2wins87 gave a more coherent answer than the one I was about to give. Weighting by margin of victory / loss is the important difference from current RE24 calculation. But, in general:
Yes, 4 solo homers by the winning team in a game won 4-3 should count the same amount. Same base state, same contribution to winning, etc. Maybe some differences by number of outs, I haven’t thought through whether that would matter yet.
But also, 5 solo homers in a 5-3 game would still be counted equally. Just each one would be worth slightly less.
This sounds a lot like WPA/LI.
Which I don’t like.
I can’t fully articulate why I don’t like it, though. It just feels off. Feels too punishing of high leverage and too rewarding of low leverage… And also too similar to RE24 while being far more difficult to explain.
However, I would love to see WPA / sqrt(LI).
My gut tells me this would be a nice balance of both.
So I guess I don’t get why each solo HR in the 5-3 game should retroactively be treated the same. You already know that the other team only scored 3.
I’m on board with the 4 solo HRs case. Though how do you count every other event in the game?
Events in late and close games have larger contributions to WPA not because they are exciting but because of how probability actually works. The purpose of WPA is not to quantify excitement but to accurately describe the change in likelihood of winning a game based only on the current state, assuming that the rest of the game is unknowable, but probabilistic in nature.
The value of a play in WPA is well calibrated to the actual results of how the same situations have played out before, with some smoothing of course.
WPA is prone to huge variation and lacks predictiveness because it is the most situational compared to RE24 or runs created, but that is also why it is the most descriptive of individual contributions to actual results. I think it can be fair to argue that it introduces too much situational randomness, so it is better to also consider RE24 and WAR and other quantifications of value, but there is nothing inaccurate about it mathematically.
Or epistemologically…unless we want to argue predetermination vs the probabilistic nature of reality, which is another question.
You’re talking about the mechanics. Nothing you’ve said is wrong. It’s good for betting for the purposes you mention. But it’s also not really a defense of it in terms of “value.”
I am just going to quote this here:
See: https://www.insidethebook.com/ee/index.php/site/article/wpa_is_wpa_is_not/
I would take it to 2wins87’s logic but push it to this extreme. Only count positive contributions (using re24) towards runs that actually scored, in games that your team actually won. But I’d also weight that based on the actual score (if you win 1-0, batters overall should get less of the credit than if you win 13-12).
Essentially the idea is, which contributes more to winning a baseball game: hitting a bases empty triple that never comes around to score, or hitting into a run-scoring double play that scores your team’s only run?
This would be the ultimate context-dependent metric that measures true contributions to winning, rather than WPA which measures changes in probability (which as sadtrombone described is more of a feeling/storytelling metric, not really a contribution metric).
I think this metric would highlight really cool/interesting outliers where a players’ performance had an outsized influence on team success.
Are you factoring in margin of victory? Or just the fact that the team won?
My thinking is it would be credit would be distributed between offense and defense based on the score. Then for hitters, portions of the ‘offense’ credit would be distributed based on RE24 contributions to each run scored.
So if a team won 8-1, I would weigh two probabilities against each other l: the probability that a team wins a game in which they score 8 runs vs. the probability they win a game in which they allow 1 run (in 9 innings). It gets slightly more complicated in shutouts and extra innings, but the general logic can still be applied.
This is definitely a much smarter way than I would have said it, but I think it nails it.
In MVP races you hear voters and other media people talk about how this person just always came through in the big moments.
Well, if that’s what you care about for whatever reason, you should at least be able to quantify it.
WPA also thinks that sacrificing in the ghost runner in the tenth is more valuable than a homer in the first, in a game that ends 1-0
Yeah, these are all good points and why I prefer to mostly just look at offensive value.
Ben (or Dave or anyone), any comment on the fact that RE24 in aggregate appears to be broken for the last three years? If you use your own leaderboards and plot league RE24, you’ll see it was in the 0-100 range for all of the 2000s through 2020, shot up to 150ish in 2021, and has been a bit below -200 the last two years, and now is done to nearly -700 already. (I realize that a huge chunk of that -700 is the White Sox, but still, there appears to be something screwy going on, and I don’t think it’s the run environment alone because 2014 didn’t look too different from 2013 or 2015.)
Note that whatever it is seems to be localized to RE24 and not WPA; WPA is clearly affected by the run environment as batter WPA is much lower than past years, but that makes sense if the WPA model is calibrated to an environment that isn’t as dreadful for scoring runs as 2024 has been.
Looks like Bobby Witt Jr. is the MVP of the American League this year. Congrats to the youngster.
I want to love this. (And I do as a fun article and talking point).
But RE24 is to a degree dependent and reflective of the batter’s teammates and lineup position. IE Aaron Judge would have less RE24 than current if he batted leadoff. Bobby Witt would have even more RE24 if he batted after Juan Soto.
So you’re saying Witt is a lot better than Judge!
Yeahhhhhh…that’s not how RE24 works – it’s not RBI.
The first step is “What’s the average outcome in this situation” (ie, a runner on second and one out) – grounding out to short then creates far more negative value than usual, walking create less positive value, etc.
It expands the difference from average.
So if Verdugo was batting after Juan Soto his RE24 would decrease. But if Witt was batting after Juan Soto his RE24 would increase.
It seems to me the key is that RE24 measures not just your performance, but also the situations you are placed in, the opportunities you are presented. If you have 2 guys who hit 20 homers, batter A always hits solo homers, batter B always hits grand slams, if I am understanding it correctly batter B would get a lot more credit. But, couldn’t this be corrected, by looking at each players performance in different game states and then applying that performance to the frequency of those game states at the MLB level, not at the level the player happened to experience that season? And I agree that including score into the game state would be a huge addition. Right now if there are players who are exceptionally good at situational hitting, singling with the bases loaded down by 1 run as opposed to striking out trying to hit a grand slam it feels like it doesn’t get measured.
Also, I know I want this is what I want to see, so maybe it is altering my perception, but it feels like RE24-WAR seems to penalize three true outcomes type players which to me indicates it is on the right track.
Ryan Howard was an RE24 hero, haha!
Not sure if you’re being serious or sarcastic, but for fun I ran some numbers…
His RE24 did consistently outperform his wRAA. Every year in which he had at least 350PA (9).
But I posit that the guy who preceded him, Bobby Abreu, is actually the real RE24 hero. His RE24 not only consistently outperformed his wRAA, but did so by huge margins (9 times by double digits!)
I would love to see what his WAR becomes using RE24. This could really enhance his HOF case.
Again…not quite how it works.
In this hypothetical, Juan Soto would be on-base in 36% of Witt’s PA (gotta account for those 37 HR).
Witt makes an out 60% of the time.
If those outs are disproportionately timed to when Soto’s on base ahead of him, he’ll take a bath relative to his wRAA – making the second out of the inning with the bases empty is only a -.15 penalty.
Making it with a runner on first is –.275, based on the 2010-15 chart.
A better who performs better than average with runners on base (as Witt has been) is going to increase RE24 with more PA with runners on base.
(Don’t overthink it)
Judge’s wRC+ is 24 points higher with men on base, yet his RE24 is 4 runs lower than his OFF.
Judge’s wRC+ is 12 points higher with Runners on Base, not 24. (225->237)
Still, That is interesting.
But the difference is fairly small.
Judge is significantly above average with runners on base and as expected his RE24 leads the league by a lot.
My point still stands: if Judge sees more PA with runners on base he will increase his RE24.
Why is his RE24 lower than expected?
GDP are considered regular outs by wRC+ but huge negatives to RE24. Judge has 19. Witt has 3.
SF are considered regular outs by wRC+ but positives to RE24. Judge has 2, Witt has 7.
Maybe he had a HR with a runner on third and then GDP with bases loaded.
Also the Outs are not significant in wRC+ but are significant in RE24. A HR with 0 outs and a K with 2 outs would net a smaller total value than a k with 0 outs and a HR with 2 outs. But BOTH OUTCOMES NET MORE RE24 VALUE with Runners on Base.
I’m guessing that’s due to walks inflating his wRC+ with runners on base while walks won’t really move the needle as much for RE24.
Thought on this more and I will concede your point that batting behind Soto seems to have minimal impact on Judge’s RE24.
Probably because he has an extremely high number of GDP relative to his wRC+ (Judge would probably benefit more from a big bat behind him).
However, Witt would definitely benefit from having more runners in front.
Yes. This is an extremely underappreciated point about all “context-inclusive” measures of performance — that “context” is a team creation. The game state when he comes to bat isn’t an individual player’s doing, but RE24 does give him a measure of credit for it. It’s certainly arguable that the team share is small and variable enough to come out in the wash over a full season most of the time, and it’s also arguable that having done the best you can with the situations you were given, retrospectively, is what it means to be “valuable to your team” for award purposes, but it does at a minimum mean that these measures are in some sense fundamentally non-comparable to truly individual ones.
And last night Arozarena hit a 3-run homer against his former team for a 4-1 lead in a 5-1 win.
There’s not really any reason to believe that differences between wRAA and RE24 are sticky from year to year, or even month to month. I certainly wouldn’t worry about his performance going forward for that reason.
For fun I decided to test this with Jose Ramirez (whom I had imagined to be consistently better with runners on base).
Season -> wRAA, RE24, PA (difference)
2016 -> 18.6, 22.78, 618 (4.18)
2017 -> 41.2, 31.7, 645 (-9.5)
2018 -> 43.7, 52.74, 698 (9.04)
2019 -> 6.8, 13.19, 542 (6.39)
2020 -> 20.3, 22.38, 254 (2.08)*
2021 -> 30.2, 41.53, 636 (11.33)
2022 -> 28.8, 42.19, 685 (13.39)
2023 -> 15.8, 13.59, 691 (-2.21)
2024 -> 24.2, 40.45, 557 (16.25)
Conclusion: Jose Ramirez consistently over performs his situation. Except for when he doesn’t. [shrug]
Also for fun, I looked at the top 10 in largest difference between RE24 and wRAA for each season between 2000-2024.
Bobby Abreu appears 5 times.
5 other players appear 4 times: Freddie Freeman, Paul Goldschmidt, Adrian Gonzalez, Joe Mauer, and Ichiro Suzuki.
The largest difference was Freddie Freeman in 2013.
…and just have to point out that 2004 Barry Bonds had RE24 of 128.94!!! :O
Related to this–when exactly do the leaderboards / player pages get updated? Because I think the numbers on the leaderboard and player profiles this morning are the same as the ones last night. I wouldn’t have noticed except for the fact that I was looking at Arozarena’s page last night.
The suspended game really did a number on us.
Awesome stuff, Ben! Definitely my offensive input of choice for MVP discussions.
I’d also add that it *really* gets to the crux of reliever value, by accounting for inherited runners in a “fair” way.
Except it doesn’t compare relievers to other relievers. It compares them to all pitchers. That seems to penalize starters in my view.
The only “penalty” to starters occurs if they leave mid-inning with a bunch of runners on.
Which, y’know, they should be penalized for, even if the reliever bails them out.
Otherwise, it’s just WAA rather than WAR and can be converted into WAR accordingly.
The penalty to starters is that their job is much harder and they don’t get credit for pitching a bunch of innings with an average leverage index. They’re compared with relievers who get to go all out for 1 inning.
Relievers get double credit for pitching in high leverage situations and also being compared with starters who have a much harder job.
Cripes.
The next time a starter comes into the game with the bases loaded and one out will be the first time I worry about relievers getting “double credit” for getting out of that situation.
This is a terrific article, and one that really gets you thinking about what aspects of game situations aren’t taken into account by our traditional versions of WAR. A few people in the comments have already talked about the score and the inning, which clearly matter.
Another aspect a metric could take into account is quality of opponent. Facing Colorado is a lot easier than facing Philadelphia. A hit off Brandon Crawford shouldn’t count the same as a hit off Chris Sale. Is there a version of WAR that weighs all of the above?
Maybe start with the expected outcome of each pitch based on velocity, movement, and location, then compare to actual outcome
I wonder what percentage of “true expected outcome” these 3 factors actually capture
(I know this is only meant as a start, and I agree that it seems like a good one)
Sale makes fewer mistakes than Crawford, but when he makes mistakes they are probably just as easy to destroy. Pitcher should not matter. Unless you want to modify by quality of each pitch and I hope you don’t, the stat is fine.
can’t use RE24 for war because if you are on a bad team with runners never getting on base it will under value you, and the opposite if you are on one of the best hitting teams it will over value you.
same with wpa stats
Not how it’s calculated – every failure is amplified when you have runners on base, as well.
Hope everyone here knows how its calculated.
Scenario 1: Juan Soto strikes out, Aaron Judge homers.
Scenario 2: Juan Soto walks, Aaron Judge homers.
By RE24-WAR, Judge is more valuable in Scenario 2 than Scenario 1. Personally, I think this doesn’t make sense. The team scores more runs in Scenario 2, but this is exclusively due to Soto, who got on base instead of striking out. This is why Soto’s WAR would go up while Judge’s would stay the same.
I think RE24-WAR is interesting, but I prefer ordinary WAR as a measure of individual player value.
WAR also thinks that a strikeout with 1 out and a runner on third is exactly the same as a fly out to deep center.
Give me wRAA-WAR for “true talent” eight days a week, but if we’re talking “How much did he help his team score runs,” it’s RE24.
The biggest issue with comparing players using RE24-WAR seems like it would be the frequency distribution of game states. If you are batting behind Juan Soto you will see a lot more game states with men on base and the corresponding opportunity to benefit from that than if you are betting behind Austin Hedges. But it seems to me if you normalized against the overall distribution of game states, you could give Judge’s RE24-WAR a haircut for getting to bat behind Soto, and give Gabriel Arias a boost if he was batting behind Hedges all the time. RE24-WAR is affected by differences in opportunities presented to players, but that seems like that is something that can be controlled and adjusted for. And then you would have a better measure of production that captures the fact that a strikeout is often not as good as other types of outs that advance runners.
Exactly. Only way to use RE24 is when you are comparing against your own team. You can’t compare against other teams.
This simply is not true.
RE24 explicitly accounts for the increase in run-expectancy when people are on base.
Like, it’s the core concept of the stat, haha
…but you also get a lot more opportunities to suffer from it.
If you make the first out with the bases empty, you get -.218 RE24.
If you make the first out with a man on second, you get -.424 RE24.
Parenthetically, this is basically what that stupid machine-learning-based “probability” widget in the corner of the AppleTV+ broadcasts does. Plus a lot of other variables thrown into the mix for maximum overfitting, of course. You have to accurately model the batter’s skill for hitting on Tuesdays in the fifth inning.
Weird with how Arozarena performs in the playoffs.
as I am w the nba doing per game avgs per 36/m (once a threshold is met) WAR/PA could be a thing
WAR/PA favors great defenders with weak bats if they are pinch hit for frequently.
Agree. There 100% needs to be a War/PA stat, or a normalized War beside the total war column.
Also another change i would recommend but i’m not sure how to do it exactly is rankings by position. For example, Adley R has 2.9 war and is a C…everyone wrongly think hes one of the best catchers due to his war total.
The reality is his WRC+ is only 86 when hes Catching and his defense is mid with hiim just totaling 1.4 war at C ranking 20th best. HIs incredible DH skills is where he gets his value.
Hes a top 10 DH and mediocre to bad catcher according to war calcs here at FG.
BB-Ref has WAR per 162G and, when you do the average sum thing, per 650 PA. I really like WAR/650 PA, and I think it serves a similar purpose to what you’re describing.
Yeah, I love WAR/650
And the MVP case for Witt grows…
This stat brings Javy Baez up to replacement level this year!
This is absolutely AWESOME and I love to see it! RE24 is a great stat that really threads the needle between tradition and sabermetrics. RE24-WAR totally passed the smell test for me, too.
A thing I particularly love about RE24 (tho it’s a bug as much as a feature) is that it mimics RBI & productive outs insofar as it reflects run probability added, but doesn’t go as far as WPA does. RE24 is, in a certain sense, SABR-RBI.
Obviously, these stats are capturing the value contributed based on opportunity, which is heavily influenced by (and created by!) a player’s teammates. But for awards like MVP, I’m interested in who made the most of their opportunities and, to a different extent, how much that impacted the pennant race. (Similarly, I look *first* to RA9-WAR for something like the CYA.)
Beautifully said!
Definitely looking forward to the day Tango gives us pitcher-specific RAA numbers on Baseball Savant (we know he has them from the Snell v Strider article, last year!)
Danke!
Huge same wrt RAA!
TBH the thing I’m waiting/looking for is a new Baseball Gauge style “create a WAR” model where the user can toggle different inputs (batting runs, runs created, RE24, xwOBA-based, etc.) with (maybe this is spicy) but context-weighted defense as an option.
Essentially everything from contextWAR to vacuumWar.
Regarding being able to sub in and out statistics in WAR to change positional adjustments / offensive statistic choice / whatever, it would be cool if there was a WAR workshop tool on the site where users could play around with adjusting WAR to their desired preferences