Can the White Sox Lose 120 Games?

Patrick Gorski-USA TODAY Sports

Tuesday, April 2 was a good day for the Chicago White Sox. A solid seven-inning start from Garrett Crochet gave the team a lead into the late innings and the bullpen managed to preserve the win. This win, the first of the season, moved to Sox to a 1-4 record, a .200 winning percentage. That’s not an impressive start to the season by any means, but that 1-4 record represents the high-water mark of the month-old 2024 season for the Pale Hose. At no point in the last three weeks have the White Sox had a seasonal winning percentage better than .200, and the four-game losing streak to begin the year is their shortest losing streak so far. Whenever a team that’s projected to be terrible starts the season even worse than expected, we instinctually invoke the 1962 Mets, who set the record for the most losses in a season, at 120. We’re at that point with these White Sox.

What’s striking about Chicago’s start is that in some ways, it’s not even particularly unlucky. Yes, Yoán Moncada and Luis Robert Jr. are out for significant stretches of time, but the projected WAR for their missed playing time so far is a bit under one win. The team’s had only two other IL stints since the start of the season and both injured players, reliever John Brebbia and slugger Eloy Jiménez, returned quickly. Other than Moncada and Robert, the Sox are fielding largely the lineup, rotation, and bullpen that they intended to when the season began. They’re only about a single win worse than their Pythagorean record, and in their three wins, they outscored their opponents by a total of four runs, meaning they were just a few bad breaks from being in the 1988 Orioles territory of dreadful starts.

Chicago’s pitching, at least, hasn’t been completely hopeless. Don’t get me wrong, the White Sox staff ranks at or near the bottom of the league in ERA, FIP, and the various spins on these numbers, but the bullpen has been sort of average, and there have been at least flashes of competence from some of the starters. Crochet’s ERA is ugly, but his peripheral stats are much better and the reasons he’s struggled (homer rate, BABIP) are two of the most volatile stats in existence. Erick Fedde has looked a lot better than he did before his stint in Korea and was terrific on Tuesday, striking out 11 Twins in a 6-5 walk-off loss for the Sox. No, it’s not the pitching that’s the primary offender right now; it’s the offense.

The White Sox have been cosplaying as a Deadball era team, hitting .189/.263/.292 and scoring barely over two runs per game. To put that into context, they have a 62 wRC+ as a team, a mark that has never been maintained for a full season by any big league club; the worst hitting team over a full season was the 1920 Philadelphia A’s, with a 68 wRC+. Even if we look at just the first 24 games of a season, the White Sox lineup is among the most inept since 1901.

Fewest Runs Scored in First 24 Games
Year Team Runs W L BA OBP SLG OPS+
1907 Brooklyn Superbas 36 3 20 .180 .258 .226 57
1909 Washington Nationals 43 6 17 .190 .252 .232 55
2004 Montreal Expos 45 5 19 .210 .260 .292 51
1972 Milwaukee Brewers 49 8 16 .185 .245 .274 61
1910 Cleveland Naps 52 12 10 .200 .268 .257 63
2024 Chicago White Sox 53 3 21 .189 .263 .292 62
1943 Chicago White Sox 53 10 14 .225 .296 .277 72
2003 Detroit Tigers 55 3 21 .182 .255 .257 41
1966 Kansas City Athletics 55 8 16 .196 .258 .261 56
1910 Chicago White Sox 55 8 16 .202 .270 .235 63
1908 Brooklyn Superbas 55 8 16 .215 .261 .277 75
1907 St. Louis Cardinals 55 5 19 .228 .276 .272 75
1905 Boston Nationals 55 8 15 .221 .273 .258 60
1968 Los Angeles Dodgers 56 12 12 .210 .264 .279 77
1954 Baltimore Orioles 56 10 14 .210 .265 .282 59
1909 Chicago White Sox 56 11 12 .193 .264 .227 57
1988 Baltimore Orioles 57 1 23 .208 .279 .296 64
1947 Washington Nationals 57 10 14 .243 .314 .303 76
1942 Chicago White Sox 57 5 19 .211 .275 .278 63
1910 St. Louis Browns 57 4 19 .203 .277 .263 74
1909 New York Giants 57 10 14 .207 .284 .262 68
1968 Chicago White Sox 59 9 15 .217 .270 .313 81
1972 California Angels 60 9 15 .243 .299 .326 99
1971 Milwaukee Brewers 60 11 13 .211 .283 .298 71
1919 St. Louis Cardinals 60 6 18 .225 .282 .288 59
SOURCE: Baseball-Reference

Teams were shut out an average of 10.3 times last year; these White Sox have been shut out eight times, meaning they’ve already been shut out half as many times as the offense that led the majors in shutouts last season, the Oakland A’s. Chicago is more than a third of the way toward matching the 2019 Marlins and 2022 Tigers for the highest single-season total of shutouts in the wild-card era, with 22. Let’s catch up quickly on the current AL Central projections in ZiPS.

ZiPS Median Projected AL Central (Through 4/24)
Team W L GB Pct Div% WC% Playoff% WS Win% 80th 20th
Cleveland Guardians 89 73 .549 55.2% 18.0% 73.3% 4.9% 96.9 82.0
Minnesota Twins 84 78 5 .519 20.9% 20.7% 41.6% 2.9% 90.3 74.9
Kansas City Royals 81 81 8 .500 14.2% 18.6% 32.8% 1.2% 88.1 73.4
Detroit Tigers 80 82 9 .494 9.7% 14.6% 24.3% 0.8% 85.9 71.2
Chicago White Sox 54 108 35 .333 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 61.8 47.2

The White Sox are hopelessly out of the race in a division where “showing up for the season” is basically all it takes to contend. Their current 80th percentile projection to finish the season is about 10 wins worse than the 20th percentile projection for any other team. That 20th percentile projection of 47.2 wins would amount to 115 losses, tantalizingly close to 120. Let’s get the exact distribution of the South Siders’ results.

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ZiPS Projected Wins Through 4/24, White Sox
Percentile Wins
1% 36.1
5% 40.8
10% 43.5
20% 47.2
30% 49.8
40% 52.2
50% 54.4
60% 56.6
70% 59.1
80% 61.8
90% 65.5
95% 68.4
99% 73.6

ZiPS currently gives the White Sox an 8.1% chance of winning 42 or fewer games. When I projected the A’s last year, they came out with only a 5.2% shot at finishing that poorly. Congratulations?

The 2024 White Sox are fairly likely to set franchise records for futility. The current projections give them a 43% chance to have the worst winning percentage in franchise history, a mark currently held by the 1932 club, at .325.

It’s also hard to see where the White Sox would get surges of improvement outside of a regression toward the mean. At the earliest, Moncada is still a few months away from returning. ZiPS is already assuming that Robert’s IL stint will be much shorter and he’ll come back and play as he was expected to coming into the season. There are no hotshot prospects expected to make an impact this year, and the big league roster looks an awful lot like a Triple-A team at the moment, full of fringy veterans.

And don’t forget: The White Sox could get even worse than this come trade season. Moncada’s likely going to return too late to be tradeable at the deadline, but everyone else should be available. I’m including Robert; next season is his last under his base contract before the team option years, and I can’t envision this franchise turning things around before he hits free agency. If 2023 wasn’t sufficient notice that the team’s competitive window has been slammed shut and locked, it’s clear now that the whole thing has been bricked over.

It’s tragic – in a baseball sense – that the fans endured a seven-year rebuild only to have the win-now phase amount to only two seasons, one of them severely shortened by the pandemic. And unlike teams that can claim to have suffered an extraordinary series of unfortunate events, this tale is largely one the White Sox wrote for themselves. Coming off a 93-win season in 2021 in which they lapped the division, finishing in first by 13 games, the White Sox suddenly stopped acting like contenders. Rather than addressing their weaknesses, they simply added a couple of relievers (Kendall Graveman and Joe Kelly) and called it an offseason. Despite getting no offensive contributions from second base, the outfielder corners, and designated hitter in 2021, the team’s big position player move was bringing back Leury García on a three-year contract.

Demosthenes, an Athenian politician of the fourth century BC, once wrote that “the easiest thing of all is to deceive one’s self; for what a man wishes he generally believes to be true.” This comes from one his speeches (the Olynthiacs) in which he urged military support of Olynthus, attacked by Philip II of Macedon in 349 BC. And it’s a fitting quote for the White Sox, a team that has largely been run with decisions based on things they want to be true, rather than things that are actually so.

The White Sox wanted to address the second base hole, a problem for years, by just going with whatever utility guys they had on hand. They wanted Andrew Vaughn to hit in the majors in 2021, despite his struggles at High-A ball in 2019 and the cancellation of the minor leagues in 2020. They wanted Tony La Russa to manage the team to glory, and Jiménez to turn into prime José Bautista, and Moncada to stay healthy. The wish list goes on and on.

The end result is that the Sox squandered a position in which they had many advantages. They were a team at the top of the division with a payroll that was tens of millions of dollars from the luxury tax threshold. They had much of their young core a long way from free agency and the financial potential of playing in one of the country’s largest media markets. They played in the weakest division in baseball. Now they’re the worst team in that division.

The White Sox are too far gone, with problems that run too deep to be papered over by a few personnel changes and a handful of hires to their notoriously tiny analytics department. At this point, it feels like the only way for the franchise to turn things around is to clean house. That includes Jerry Reinsdorf, the team’s owner, who by all indications is a large part of the current dysfunction, but who by all indications has no intention of selling the team. So, can the White Sox lose 120 games? Sure. But maybe the better question is this: What would it matter if they did?





Dan Szymborski is a senior writer for FanGraphs and the developer of the ZiPS projection system. He was a writer for ESPN.com from 2010-2018, a regular guest on a number of radio shows and podcasts, and a voting BBWAA member. He also maintains a terrible Twitter account at @DSzymborski.

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kipsoothMember since 2019
2 years ago

Hope we lose every fucking game so Reinsdorf can be associated with the worst team in modern history. Fuck that guy.

Last edited 2 years ago by kipsooth
soddingjunkmailMember since 2016
2 years ago

Dan,
If you’re doing “Can team X do Y?” articles, I’d love to see a “Can the Orioles or Braves score 1,000 runs this year?” projection. They both have historically good offenses, and have gotten off to great starts. Given the rarity of the accomplishment, it might be fun.

RobM
2 years ago

The Braves certainly have a historically good offense. I feel like the claim for the O’s is more projection, although it’s a projection I expect they’ll achieve eventually with some more growth from their younger hitters.

EonADSMember since 2024
2 years ago

Reinsdorf is a POS. I’m almost hoping the Bulls have to blow up what little is left of their core after flunking out of the Play-In this season in the NBA, in addition to the White Sox. I don’t want to cause major depression for the city of Chicago, but god dayumn. That man deserves to pass on remembered as a perennial loser who squandered nearly every piece of talent that ever entered his orgs. He’s super lucky MJ and Pippen were willing to stick around due to NBA culture at the time.

Lanidrac
2 years ago
Reply to  EonADS

Maybe it’s an age thing? Sure, he sucks now, but his Bulls were still the best team in the NBA in the ’90s with 6 Championships, white his White Sox finally won the World Series again in 2005. Surely he deserves some credit for those accomplishments?

EonADSMember since 2024
2 years ago
Reply to  Lanidrac

Nah. He’s the one who destroyed the core of that ’05 Sox team, and the construction of the 90’s Bulls were entirely due to now much-maligned GM Jerry Krause. He had to convince Reinsdorf to allow almost all of his choices, from building around Jordan rather than trying to replace Reggie Theus, to acquiring Pippen in a draft-day trade, to signing Rodman, to getting Horace Grant to letting Grant walk later as he slowed down. Everything that made that team successful came from him and Phil Jackson, along with (obviously) the guys on the floor making it work in real time. The Bulls were good in the mid-80’s largely because of MJ (and Pippen towards the tail end of the decade), but Reinsdorf and his cronies couldn’t build around him worth crap.

Last edited 2 years ago by EonADS
lacslyer
2 years ago
Reply to  Lanidrac

Nah, when you go from being the most successful NBA franchise of the 90s to consistently bottom of the league payroll after you let the best player in the league walk away you deserve jack shit.

scotth855Member since 2020
2 years ago

Here’s hoping we get another legendary rant from Berto from the west side about this year’s White Sox.

ZonkMember since 2016
2 years ago

White Sox just lost again, 3-22 now….one step closer

nelliseMember since 2024
2 years ago
Reply to  Zonk

They were swept in 4 games by a team coming into the series at 7-13.

They should at least win tomorrow because this season has gone like this:
4 losses -> win -> 5 losses -> win -> 6 losses -> win -> 7 losses

bernardgilkeyhasaposseMember since 2019
2 years ago
Reply to  nellise

well, now I am hoping the season follows like an LSAT logic problem

macseriesMember since 2022
2 years ago

baseball tends to be more like reading comprehension for better or worse

PhilMember since 2016
2 years ago
Reply to  nellise

So now it’s going to be 8 losses in a row

MikeSMember since 2020
2 years ago

The White Sox are a very well rounded team. They can lose to you in a lot of different ways. Sure, their best at simply not scoring runs which is an excellent way to lose. But they can also lose with bad starting pitching, bad relief pitching and (somewhat surprisingly) bad defense. About the only way they don’t lose is through bad baserunning, but that’s mostly because they don’t really get baserunners.

szakylMember since 2024
2 years ago

99th percentile is only 74 wins. I didn’t think it was possible for a .500 season to be impossible this early in a season.

TKDCMember since 2016
2 years ago
Reply to  szakyl

I want to know what the 1 in a million win total would be? Maybe 81 wins?

RobertMember since 2017
2 years ago

Looking at the table the thing that most stood out to me was the White Sox as a franchise have SIX entries on this list. No one else has more than 2.

olethrosMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  Robert

That and for the most part it’s either pre-expansion teams, a few expansion teams in their early years, the final season of the Expos when they were being actively sabotaged, and a couple of execrable (and likely ownership sabotaged) teams post 1980. It’s like the Pale Hose have been intentionally shitty for most of their existence. Fully half of that list is from 1920 or earlier.

formerly matt wMember since 2025
2 years ago
Reply to  Robert

Technically I think two franchises are tied with 3, the Superbas and Dodgers are the same franchise, as are the St. Louis Browns and the Orioles. But the Expos are not the same franchise as the Washington Nationals that are on the chart.

Sleepy
2 years ago

Heading into today’s games, the A’s (who are being actively sabotaged by their owner and running a payroll 25% lower than any other team), per wRC+, have the 5th-worst offense in baseball.

And, somehow, the A’s are closer to a Top 12 offense than they are to the White Sox.

MikeD
2 years ago

Why yes, Dan, yes they can.

I will now go and read your article. : -)

Doug LampertMember since 2016
2 years ago
Reply to  MikeD

Will Dan’s article defy Betteridge’s Law Of Headlines?

fjtorres
2 years ago

“The White Sox could get even worse than this come trade season. ”

Could? Could?

What do bad teams with a decent to good bullpen do at the deadline?

The thing is the Sox can not possibly be this bad over a full season. At some point they *have* to get better…
…by dumpster diving, if nothing else…
…but come august, they will give back some of those gains.

120 losses is too many for any contemporary to achieve unless they are *intentionally* doing it, MAJOR LEAGUE (or Oakland) style.

The Sox will get better and at some point they’ll play an injury-ravaged team in a slump and avoid 120 losses. But 116? That’s the number to fear. 😁

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago

I am doubtful that they are going to put up as bad a run differential as the A’s did last year, which was something like the second worst run differential in MLB history. They’re going to get Robert back, they might not trade him or Crochet or Fedde because the White Sox are delusional, and the rest of the lineup has nowhere to go but up. These guys are probably not worse than the A’s were last year (who were impossibly bad) and that team had a Pythagorean record of 49 wins.

But this is a phenomenally bad team, and it’s exciting to see that there’s a chance that they could make a run at history-making futility. The worst team I can remember was that 2003 Tigers team that only won 43 games. I have been waiting and hoping for a while that I would get to see something at that level again. Losing 120 games would be something fascinating, a lot of things have to go wrong for that to happen.

RobM
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

To start this badly means they will almost assuredly be sellers, and if they’re sellers, they might get worse since their farm system isn’t going to make them better. I basically agree with your premise, but I’m not all that confident. The Mets have held that record for long enough. Some team in the age of tanking is likely going to eclipse them. Maybe this is the team.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  RobM

I just don’t have faith that even this would shake them out of their delusions of competence.

I also think they will be selling low on Robert if they trade at the deadline, so I don’t think they will do it. Which might be the only thing I would agree with.

Chili Davis Eyes
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Yeah I’m not sure they’ll be selling anything of value come the trade deadline. The fact that they moved Cease before the season started seems like a positive (?) sign, but they are also like the AL version of the Rockies, in that their primary organizational philosophies seem to be “our players are better than everyone else thinks” and “squint real hard and you’ll see it”.

PC1970Member since 2024
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

The 2003 Tigers were truly awful. Product of years of terrible decisions & they brought in Dombrowski in 2002 & he tore it down. They had some young pitching (Bonderman, Nate Robertson) & a couple guys that lasted til the 2006 resurgence.(Inge,Craig Monroe)..but, not a fun season.

They also had a 49 win Pythagorean record (It’s gonna take bad luck plus a bad team to get to 120 losses) & they won like their last 6 games or something to avoid 120 losses. Heck, Detroit had THREE Rule 5 guys (all relievers) last the entire season.

At least CWS has Robert, Moncada, Jimenez, so they could have a few decent bats if those guys can ever remain healthy. Detroit had Dimitri Young & a bunch of nothing.

I know I’ve said this before, but, CWS is going to have to limit Crochet, too. 25 innings last year, less than 100 from 2020-2023. Really a reliever his entire career, even in college. Would be stupid to pitch him 170 innings in the hopes of avoiding an embarrassing season..but, they may be what they do!

LMOTFOTEMember since 2017
2 years ago
Reply to  PC1970

Dombrowski went on to have one of the best trade dealing and free agent signing rebuilds of all time. 2006 season was worth the pain of 2003. Poor White Sox fans because I sure don’t see that happening for them.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago

That thing about the White Sox wishcasting is a great aside, too. Never heard it put that way before but they’re definitely good at lying to themselves. They’ve done a lot of things that only make sense if you’re projecting that player at their 80th percentile outcome.

steex
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

This is definitely a front office that believes every dead cat bounce is dependable reanimation. And, of course, they’re willing to overlook current performance entirely if an acquisiton finally allows them to “get their man” based on interest a decade earlier.

SolerPower35
2 years ago
Reply to  steex

100%. This is also a perfect description of how the Bulls operate. The team president came out to say the team was very competitive and exactly where they wanted to be after doing nothing at the trade deadline when the team was 24-27. They have not made a trade involving a player since August 2021.

Seems like they basically try to be cheap/lazy for as long as possible and then make up for it (in their minds) by signing some guys in their 30s who were fringe all stars years ago.

TheGarrettCooperFanClub
2 years ago
Reply to  SolerPower35

They have not made a trade involving a player since August 2021.

That’s even more bizarre with how frequent trades are in NBA.

gettwobrute79Member since 2026
2 years ago

Not that this matters much for the Pale Hose this season but,..are they pushed out of the lottery for 2025 because they’re a revenue sharing payer? I think they draft fifth this coming draft, so I wasn’t sure if they (like Washington) get elbowed out of the lottery the year after they’re in.

Mike
2 years ago
Reply to  gettwobrute79

Yes, they can finish with the worst record and draft no higher than 10th next year

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  gettwobrute79

The rule is that if you are a revenue sharing payer you cannot be selected in back-to-back lotteries. So unless someone else does worse than them, they will select 10th next year.

For revenue recipients you can’t be picked more than two years in a row. The A’s, Pirates, and Tigers will be ineligible as a result, plus . Which will probably be okay for the Pirates and Tigers (since they both look like .500ish teams) and the Athletics will be probably picking 11th, just after the White Sox.

Not that the White Sox or A’s deserve any tears or anything here, but if either team was actually well-run you could see how it would be unfair. I kind of think the lottery should probably be for only the top 3 or 4 picks, since the White Sox this year (and the A’s last year) were just outside of the elite picks and now they’ll be much further back. But the White Sox and the A’s don’t deserve any part of our sympathy, so I don’t care.

gettwobrute79Member since 2026
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I’d think both the Bucs and Tigers would be eligible to draft in the top six in 2025 since Pittsburgh picks ninth and Detroit picks 11th in 2024. I thought Oakland would be the only team ineligible.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  gettwobrute79

Maybe? The rules around this are arcane enough that I re-read it again and now I don’t understand it again.

gettwobrute79Member since 2026
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I also don’t know if it was spelled out if the previous year or two of the draft results mattered for the lottery. I’d guess no, since Pittsburgh picked 1 and 4 before the new CBA took effect, then won the first lottery last year. Who knows, but we’ll find out for sure in December!

Lanidrac
2 years ago

If you’re going to reference the 1962 Mets, please clarify them as having the most losses by any MODERN MLB team. The 1899 Cleveland Spiders were still worse by both winning percentage and total losses with their 20-134 record. Yes, there were heavy extenuating circumstances, so I do agree with referencing the modern loss record instead as the one to beat (or you could go for the next worst winning percentage by the 1890 Pittsburgh Alleghenys or the modern worst winning percentage by the 1916 Philedalphia Athletics), but the 1899 Spiders are still in the record books as the worst team in MLB history.

Last edited 2 years ago by Lanidrac
nelliseMember since 2024
2 years ago
Reply to  Lanidrac

I don’t think there’s much lost by not mentioning the Spiders. That was a major league team in name only as the owners took all the good players to their new team and they played 112 games on the road.

The 1962 Mets, 2003 Tigers and this year’s White Sox were all supposed to be competing under normal circumstances (even if the Mets team should even get a little bit of a pass being an expansion team that year).

Lanidrac
2 years ago
Reply to  nellise

As I said, I agree that the ’62 Mets are the ones to beat. (Then again, they were a first year expansion team back when the expansion rules were even more unfavorable, so is that really competing under normal circumstances?)

Anyway, I just think it should be more accurately clarified.

nelliseMember since 2024
2 years ago
Reply to  Lanidrac

I wondered about how much of a pass the Mets should get as an expansion team, but there were other expansion teams around the same time who weren’t nearly so bad: in 1961 the Angels and Senators came into the AL with 91 and 100 losses; in 1962 the Mets came in with Houston and Houston lost 96. The 1969 expansion teams had 93, 98, 110, and 110 losses. The 90s expansion teams didn’t lose over 100 their first year.

So the Mets really were in a class of their own.

Lanidrac
2 years ago
Reply to  nellise

You left out the 1977 expansion teams, who lost 98 and 107 games.

Anyway, 110 losses is still extremely bad despite not being quite as bad as the Mets.

The expansion rules were more favorable in the ’90s.

Last edited 2 years ago by Lanidrac
LMOTFOTEMember since 2017
2 years ago
Reply to  nellise

If I recall, the Astros went after prospects who hadn’t gotten enough chances yet and the Mets went after too many players past their prime thinking their fans would prefer watching players they knew.

LightenUpFGMember since 2018
2 years ago

I do find it very strange that hitters like Benintendi and Vaughn aren’t at least hitting .250, Benintendi especially. Something else seems to be going on here. How likely is it that everyone is having a cold start?

nelliseMember since 2024
2 years ago
Reply to  LightenUpFG

Benintendi really struggled at the end of last season too, almost to the same extent: .561 OPS in September, hitting .207. Maybe he tried to change something and it broke him completely. But that doesn’t explain his almost complete lack of interest in fielding.

sandwiches4everMember since 2019
2 years ago
Reply to  nellise

That doesn’t appear to be new — last year he ran a -11 OAA, and had a -14 run value when you account for the -4 runs his arm “added”.

Max Power
2 years ago

Good thing they hired Getz, an outside GM would’ve taken a year to get familiarized with the organization and they didn’t want to wait around for a year before competing…

Then Getz says it’s going to take time to build up because he has to get familiarized with everything, despite being there since 2017 and running the most critical department in the organization…

I’ve heard (very dumb) media people talking about the fact that Getz inherited Grifol and after this season he’ll get to hire his own guy. Newsflash: Getz was the reason they hired Grifol, they’re good friends from Getz’s time in KC and who the hell else was going to hire an assistant from what was at the time one of the worst teams in baseball and had been one of the worst teams for half-a-decade?

Baller McCheese (burner account)Member since 2015
2 years ago

Not defending what the Sox are now, but I think your take on the Sox’ 21/22 offseason is looking at it with too much hindsight. That was a team that everyone thought would waltz into the playoffs in 2022 – more FanGraphs writers thought they’d be in the playoffs than any other team in the AL (https://blogs.fangraphs.com/fangraphs-2022-staff-predictions/). They addressed their obvious weaknesses in the offseason, and were setting themselves up for the playoffs (i.e., you can never have too many high leverage bullpen arms). Their failure was colossal in 2022, but it was on the field.

Shalesh
2 years ago

Great comment. Their payroll was $190M on Forbes-reported revenue of $276. The luxury tax threshold was $230M. The average team spends about 44% of its revenues on player payroll and spends another 44% on stadium, sales and administrative expenses, thus leaving 12% profit. Spending 80% of revenues on payroll is not realistic. Maybe the Forbes-reported number is low though since I can’t see how the White Sox are a revenue-sharer at that number.

In 2022, the White Sox finished 11 games behind Cleveland. Even had they spent the extra $40M that Szymborski insists they should have, you can’t get 11 wins for that money. Add another $15M of waste like Leury Garcia, you still can’t get 11 wins. A better manager than LaRussa adds maybe 1 win since the 2022 team already outperformed their Pythagorean run differential.

You could say then that the managerial failure was that they didn’t sell off the team at the 2022 ASB. Problem is that Moncada, Grandal, and Jimenez already had no trade value. Maybe they could have traded Lynn, Giolito, and especially Hendrix. Cease and Robert had too much control to receive a fair return.

nelliseMember since 2024
2 years ago
Reply to  Shalesh

They also let Rodon walk without a QO after 2021 which even at the time seemed wrong.

Last edited 2 years ago by nellise
Baller McCheese (burner account)Member since 2015
2 years ago
Reply to  nellise

Yeah, this was the common refrain at the time but it made sense from the perspective that they were building their team for the playoffs, not the regular season. It didn’t work out well, but it was the right move at the time.

They were already five starters deep. And again, on paper they didn’t need Rodon to get into the playoffs. It would have been luxury for the regular season that they didn’t need and could spend that money elsewhere.

In the end Rodon signed (late) for about the QO amount. Teams were not jumping to offer him a contract or make a trade. I’m sure Boras knew Rodon’s value going into it all. If there was a draft pick associated with it, he might have just accepted the QO.

Since just offering the QO meant that the Sox might have had to have signed him, that would have been money they’d need to allocate from other parts of their offseason plan in order to be prepared. They had been aggressive that offseason, even though it was just for a couple relievers, and may not have gotten their guys if they had to wait on whether Rodon accepted the QO or not.

And lastly, based on his track record, he was not a good bet to be healthy come the playoffs. Since he was shut down before the end of the season by the Giants, he would have been useless in the playoffs. The Sox knew his health the best, and if that was a bet they made, they were right.

Again, the 2022 season did not work out for the Sox. But the potential cost of a Rodon QO playing out a certain way outweighed the draft pick benefit, in regard to the playoffs. In a way it was the Sox seeing that timeframe as their window and being aggressive.

Baller McCheese (burner account)Member since 2015
2 years ago
Reply to  Shalesh

Yes. So much of the discourse was that could/should have signed [x superstar] and, like, yeah, sure, but also that’s not the way it works.

Right or wrong, I think they always saw their window as going a few years past 2022. Their more likely path to success was going to be that 2022 was just a detour and everyone could come back healthy in 2023 to compete, as opposed to blowing it up.

dangledangleMember since 2024
2 years ago

Can fangraphs do a reverse race for the likleyhood of breaking the 120 loss barrier? The Marlins seem too be in the running there as well.

res
2 years ago

An awful lot of White Sox teams on that list of historic futility.