Cardinals Acquire Nolan Arenado in Blockbuster Trade
For years, rumors have connected Nolan Arenado and the St. Louis Cardinals. Some of it was wishcasting — Cardinals fans have spent the last 25 years expecting (and often seeing) trades for unhappy superstars, and Arenado sure seemed unhappy. Some of it was actual interest — the Cardinals have been in the superstar trade market and the Rockies have been in the move-Arenado market at various points. Today, it’s happening: per The Athletic’s Ken Rosenthal, Arenado has been traded to the Cardinals for five players: Austin Gomber, Mateo Gil, Tony Locey, Elehuris Montero, and Jake Sommers.
The sticking point in any Arenado trade was always going to be capitalism. That’s painting with a broad brush, so let’s rephrase: there’s no doubt that Arenado is one of the best players in the game, but the vagaries of his contract and the math of surplus value combined to limit a potential return. Remember when Giancarlo Stanton got traded to the Yankees for essentially nothing? This would be like that, only potentially even worse.
Arenado is due $199 million over the next six years. That’s a large contract, as befits a player of his stature. If you value one win above replacement at around $8 million (my best estimate at present, though the error bars are huge given the pandemic), Arenado would need to produce roughly 25 WAR over the next six years to break even. We’ve got ZiPS forecasts for the next five of those years:
| Year | BA | OBP | SLG | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | SO | SB | OPS+ | DR | WAR |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2021 | .262 | .331 | .471 | 546 | 78 | 143 | 27 | 3 | 27 | 83 | 57 | 91 | 2 | 112 | 10 | 4.0 |
| 2022 | .259 | .326 | .461 | 514 | 71 | 133 | 26 | 3 | 24 | 75 | 53 | 84 | 2 | 109 | 9 | 3.4 |
| 2023 | .256 | .322 | .443 | 492 | 66 | 126 | 25 | 2 | 21 | 69 | 49 | 78 | 2 | 103 | 8 | 2.9 |
| 2024 | .254 | .318 | .431 | 469 | 60 | 119 | 22 | 2 | 19 | 62 | 45 | 71 | 2 | 99 | 7 | 2.4 |
| 2025 | .248 | .309 | .410 | 444 | 54 | 110 | 20 | 2 | 16 | 55 | 40 | 64 | 2 | 91 | 6 | 1.7 |
The numbers fall a little short, which is why finding a trading partner for Arenado has proved so elusive even as rumors of his availability persisted. That doesn’t even take into account a player option that would allow him to become a free agent after the 2021 season; it’s hard to trade a lot for a player who might not be on your team in a year’s time.
Those are the reasons that Arenado was a strange piece to fit in a trade. The counter? Arenado is an awesome player! He’s Nolan Arenado, for crying out loud. Over the last five years, he’s been the seventh-best position player in the game. At 29, he’s not a spring chicken anymore, but he’s still one of the best third basemen out there. Every single team in baseball would be improved by adding him, even if they had to shift a few pieces around to fit him in.
This weird dichotomy — excellent player, middling trade chip — explains the strangeness of this deal. Though the terms of the deal aren’t final, the Rockies are reportedly sending roughly $50 million to the Cardinals as part of the trade, and Arenado has agreed to defer some of his compensation to further sweeten the financial pot for St. Louis. The Cardinals gave Arenado an extra opt-out and an extra year reported at $15 million in exchange. There are all kinds of wild financial things going on in this deal, but let’s skip all that for now and focus on what St. Louis is getting on the field.
The highlight of this trade is pretty clear: the Cardinals just got a new best player on their team. The NL Central is up for grabs this year, and the four teams with a realistic shot at it have spent the offseason doing a whole lot of nothing. Adam Wainwright, who signed earlier this week, was the first player the Cardinals inked to a major league contract all offseason.
Adding Arenado changes that. Slash lines are a silly way of thinking about production for Rockies players, but even if you adjust his line for park effects, Arenado’s career .293/.349/.541 batting line is 18% better than average. Even with a little age-related decline baked in, that gives him the second-best offensive projection on the team, behind only fellow NL West transplant Paul Goldschmidt.
While Goldschmidt plays the least demanding position on the field, Arenado is a better defender than hitter. He’s won a Gold Glove in every year of his career, and this isn’t a case of reputation outstripping production; DRS thinks he’s been worth a whopping 120 runs above average in his career, a full 30 runs better than his closest competition at the position. UZR is inherently more conservative, but it also thinks he’s been the best third-base defender in the game. Even Outs Above Average concurs, the rare time that every advanced defensive metric is in agreement.
In 2021, Arenado represents a huge upgrade from incumbent Matt Carpenter. Carpenter has been below average with the bat in each of the last two seasons, and while he’s improved defensively, did you see what I just wrote about Arenado in the field? This isn’t close, and it isn’t close to being close.
Even if the Cardinals get absolutely nothing out of Carpenter — he’ll be first in line if the NL has a DH, and can also back up first and third base — we now project the Cardinals as favorites in the Central. That’s not the end of the story when you’re trading for a player with so many years remaining on his contract, but it’s a good start.
How those future years look is a decidedly murkier question than it was this time last year. Arenado played through the entire 2020 season with an injured left shoulder, and his offense suffered. He posted his lowest OBP and SLG since his rookie year, before his offensive breakout. The culprit? A complete lack of power on contact. His xwOBACON (expected production on contact) was in the bottom 10% of the league, and was the worst of his career by 98 points. wOBA is scaled to OBP, so uh, 98 points is pretty bad!
Every other metric you might care to look at agreed: the power simply wasn’t there. Have a favorite contact quality metric? He set a new career low in it. His 5.4% barrel rate was below average. His hard-hit rate was his worst since 2014 and also below average. Expected slugging? You guessed it — worst of his career. Home runs per fly ball? Worst since 2013. Oof.
That power outage obscured a few marginal improvements. Arenado has always been a free swinger, but he reined in his aggression somewhat, upped his contact rate, and struck out only 10% of the time, the lowest number in his already-contact-happy career. It wasn’t some short-season fluke, either; his swinging strike rate was also a career low. You just couldn’t tell because he was avoiding strikeouts only to loft a fly ball to shallow left field.
Even counting the improved plate discipline, however, Arenado’s lost 2020 weighed on his projections. To figure out how heavily, Dan Szymborski did a little ZiPS magic. He replaced Arenado’s actual 2020 with his 2019 statistics, then re-ran his projections with those inputs. That hypothetical world adds back a lot of the shine that Arenado recently lost:
| Year | BA | OBP | SLG | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | SO | SB | OPS+ | DR | WAR |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2021 | .271 | .344 | .501 | 565 | 86 | 153 | 28 | 3 | 32 | 92 | 63 | 100 | 3 | 123 | 9 | 5.0 |
| 2022 | .269 | .340 | .487 | 536 | 79 | 144 | 27 | 3 | 28 | 84 | 58 | 93 | 2 | 119 | 8 | 4.3 |
| 2023 | .264 | .334 | .468 | 515 | 73 | 136 | 26 | 2 | 25 | 77 | 54 | 88 | 2 | 113 | 7 | 3.6 |
| 2024 | .259 | .328 | .449 | 490 | 67 | 127 | 23 | 2 | 22 | 69 | 50 | 81 | 2 | 106 | 6 | 2.9 |
| 2025 | .254 | .319 | .430 | 465 | 60 | 118 | 21 | 2 | 19 | 62 | 44 | 73 | 2 | 99 | 5 | 2.1 |
To show what an outsize effect Arenado’s 2020 had on his future projections, take a look at ZiPS’ percentile estimates for 2021:
| Percentile | BA | OBP | SLG | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | SO | SB | OPS+ | WAR |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 90% | .279 | .357 | .561 | 537 | 85 | 150 | 31 | 6 | 36 | 97 | 66 | 75 | 3 | 141 | 6.1 |
| 80% | .269 | .344 | .517 | 540 | 82 | 145 | 30 | 4 | 32 | 90 | 63 | 81 | 2 | 127 | 5.1 |
| 70% | .266 | .341 | .501 | 541 | 80 | 144 | 29 | 4 | 30 | 89 | 62 | 85 | 2 | 122 | 4.8 |
| 60% | .263 | .336 | .490 | 543 | 79 | 143 | 28 | 4 | 29 | 86 | 60 | 88 | 2 | 118 | 4.4 |
| 50% | .262 | .331 | .471 | 546 | 78 | 143 | 27 | 3 | 27 | 83 | 57 | 91 | 2 | 112 | 4.0 |
| 40% | .258 | .326 | .459 | 547 | 77 | 141 | 26 | 3 | 26 | 81 | 56 | 95 | 1 | 108 | 3.6 |
| 30% | .255 | .321 | .444 | 549 | 75 | 140 | 26 | 3 | 24 | 78 | 54 | 99 | 1 | 103 | 3.3 |
| 20% | .253 | .318 | .435 | 550 | 73 | 139 | 25 | 3 | 23 | 75 | 53 | 105 | 1 | 100 | 3.0 |
| 10% | .249 | .310 | .408 | 554 | 72 | 138 | 24 | 2 | 20 | 72 | 49 | 116 | 1 | 91 | 2.3 |
It would take an 80th percentile outcome just to equal that 2020-agnostic projection. In other words, if you think that Arenado’s shoulder injury both caused his decline and is fully healed, ZiPS might be underselling him considerably. That’s not how real life works — 2020 did happen, and injuries take a toll — but it’s reasonable to think that the shoulder injury might be having an outsized impact on the projections, at least enough to shade him up slightly in your mind.
With that out of the way — the Cardinals got a new best player in a competitive division, and how well he ages is up in the air — let’s talk about the convoluted financial dealings that made this trade work. The Rockies are sending roughly $50 million to St. Louis to defray part of Arenado’s salary. That makes it a six-year, $149 million contract from St. Louis’s perspective — or it would, if there weren’t even more strangeness afoot.
As part of the deal, Arenado agreed to defer an unspecified amount of his salary. That lowers the present value of the contract for St. Louis and potentially helps them with cash flow considerations. Given that their biggest investment in recent years hasn’t been a player but instead a real estate development surrounding Busch Stadium, a little cash leeway might come in handy.
In exchange for deferring his salary, Arenado got two carrots. First, he now has a second opt-out in the deal after the 2022 season. Why he added a second one instead of merely moving the first back I have no clue, but giving the market an extra year to recover before deciding whether to seek a new contract makes sense. This year has provided little clarity on the free agent market, and next year at this time there may be a brand-new CBA. An extra year to survey the field — and potentially to rebuild his value — could make a world of difference.
If he decides not to opt out, he’ll have an extra year on the contract, at a rate of $15 million. I haven’t heard this specifically, but my guess is that the extra year and the opt out were necessary to get the player’s union to sign off on this deal. A player agreeing to defer money on an existing contract might set a bad precedent, so an extra option and year evened the scales.
Complicated enough for you? Whatever you think of that new arrangement, the Cardinals thought that it made Arenado attractive enough to surrender a sampler platter of controllable pitching and intriguing lottery tickets, though none of the team’s top tier of prospects are on the move — this isn’t the premium platter with caviar and oysters by any means.
Austin Gomber has pitched 100 solid innings in the majors, and profiles as a back-of-the-rotation starter or long reliever. He throws a slider and curve both set up by a decent four-seam fastball, but his middling velocity doesn’t give him much margin for error. Locey, who was a starter at Georgia, is a likely reliever unless he develops a third pitch and a little command. He could be solid in that role, however; he was touching the upper 90s even as a starter and features a plus breaking ball.
Past that, we’re getting into speculative territory. Gil hasn’t made it out of rookie ball yet, but scouts like his bat speed and his defensive versatility. Montero looked like a potential fast-riser before 2019, when he tried Double-A and was overmatched as well as injured. He’s strong and has the agility for third base, but his swing-first swing-second approach got exposed and might require a retool. Jake Sommers — well, I honestly don’t know that much about Jake Sommers. He was a mid-round senior sign out of UWM in 2019, where he bounced back and forth between starting and relieving.
Eric Longenhagen will cover these prospects in more detail, but the upshot is that while there are a lot of bodies here, none of them are showstoppers. You could say that the Rockies went for quantity over quality in their return, but I think that misstates it. In reality, they washed their hands of Arenado to get rid of his contract, and received some token prospects in return so that they could tell their fans it wasn’t a purely financial decision.
What’s the big picture of this trade? For the Rockies, it’s an unmitigated disaster. Arenado was supposed to be the team’s generational star. They managed to sign him to an extension, gave him an opt out so that he could leave if he didn’t care for the direction the team was headed in, and promptly headed in the wrong direction. They also gave him enough money that they started to worry he wouldn’t opt out, leaving them on the hook for a star’s salary without a good team around him.
Bob Nightengale reported that the Rockies will now pivot to extension talks with Trevor Story. I have to imagine that Story’s response would be short, laughter-filled, and dismissive. He’s a free agent after this year, and while there’s some number that he wouldn’t say no to and a crowded shortstop market waiting for him, it’s clear from the way this trade went down that the team feels burdened by heavy financial commitments. I can’t see a future where Story stays in Colorado in the aftermath of this teardown.
As for the Cardinals, they turned a handful of minor leaguers into literally Nolan Arenado. It might not be pretty in five years, but aging is unpredictable, and with Colorado kicking in a full quarter of the contract, it’s not even a particularly bad rate. There are really no two ways to put it: this is a phenomenal deal for St. Louis.
Whatever the financial backdrop of baseball, whatever the surplus valuation calculations that fill teams’ ledgers, star power still matters. If you want to win the World Series, you need stars. If you want to be an exciting team, you need stars. The Cardinals, for all their ability to develop average players out of sawdust and hope, have been sorely lacking in the showstopper department of late, Goldschmidt notwithstanding. With patience and persistence, however, they got their target. While the financial fallout is still unclear, speaking (for the first and only time in this article) as a Cardinals fan, let me tell you this: I don’t care. This was a tremendous deal for the Red Birds, and I guarantee you that the other teams in the NL Central are unhappy tonight.
This article has been edited to reflect the final group of players headed to Colorado, which was made official Monday, February 1.
Ben is a writer at FanGraphs. He can be found on Bluesky @benclemens.
Thanks for this late-night write up! I think you hit the nail on the head – it’s an “unmitigated disaster” for the Rockies.
The organization is a joke. They feel like the final holdout in terms of front offices that haven’t evolved past 2003. People I’ve known in or around that organization all but confirm the same thing.
It’s just a shame. Colorado always does well when it comes to attendance. Denver is an awesome city. And they were just competitive 2-3 seasons ago. You extend the best player you’ve ever developed to a very reasonable deal, and trash talk him publicly shortly thereafter. Is it that hard to keep your biggest star happy? It didn’t take long to know that his departure was inevitable. And they’re best option when they did finally trade him also necessitated giving away $50 million only to get back one MLB-ready arm with 100 innings under his belt and some lottery tickets without much of a ceiling?
I’ll just never get how incompetent that owner and front office are. A lot of trends in baseball lately are gross. Guys like Mookie Betts and Francisco Lindor were shown the door by the team who developed them for short-term financial gain. Only a handful of teams are even trying to win. But this? This is Colorado doing Colorado things. It’s the least surprising news ever. We could’ve all predicted they’d ship out Arenado and get nothing back. What’s the plan now? The farm is terrible, the player development process is a mess, the big league team will get shellacked in their division, and now they’ve traded a generational talent. With Trevor Story likely next to go, what’s the vision?
That team needs serious help and I hope for the sake of their fans, that maybe the Rockies can join us in 2021 and establish some kind of framework or structure for future success. This team as is just exists, and that’s not good enough anymore.
The front office has been horrible. But it’s not because of this deal. It’s because of Blackmon, Desmond, Murphy, Davis. There’s no world where the Rockies are competitive with the Dodgers and Padres in the next 3 years with or without Arenado. By the time they’d be relevant again, Arenado is in his late 30s and this contract is even further underwater. It does make sense to trade him, Marquez, and Story.
Now I think the return was lackluster. They probably could have taken on Fowler’s contract and gotten Gorman. Or gotten younger prospects. Because the fact is the $8m/WAR math breaks down when you are talking about elite guys (it’s exponential not linear). But this was probably still an under water contract and were talking about getting a pile of 45s for cash rather than what a fair return for Arenado is
It’s true that this deal is a lot less bad than the Blackmon, Desmond, Davis deals, but that’s not saying much. The Rockies have spent their money very badly. I can’t think of a single free agent deal that wasn’t the equivalent of lighting money on fire, and they didn’t get a discount with Arenado or Blackmon on the extensions.
As far as the return goes, I don’t think they’d get Gorman, and I don’t think they’d get a pile of 45s (I think most, if not all of these guys, are 40s). First of all, I think Fowler has a no-trade clause himself, so that would add another layer to the whole thing. Second, I think the attraction for the Cardinals is that they don’t have to give up anyone who is or ever would project to be a major contributor. If the deal involves giving up a real contributor or a potential contributor then I don’t think the Cardinals make this deal.
Yeah, while Fowler is overpaid, he’s still one of the 3 best outfielders the Cardinals have right now (considering they now need Edman mostly at 2B), and there’s not a lot of talent behind those 3 unless O’Neill and/or Thomas can step up in a big way.
The Rockies are a case study in failed opportunity cost. They had a decent chance to be a really good team, but they couldn’t develop a first baseman and had one of the worst producing outfields in baseball. Those should be the two easiest things for a team in Colorado to do.
I agree on this point. The choice wasn’t “be competitive or trade Arenado”. The choice was “Shell out a bunch of money so you can finish at best 3rd in your division, or start planning for 2024” The team as is isn’t making a dent except by wild luck, so pick up some lottery pieces, develop your guys, take your lumps in the media for rebuilding , and try to hit the right window.
Yes, WAR/dollars is by no means linear, but the $8M per WAR calculation is for the star level players (maybe even a little higher for superstars like Arenado). It’s the guys putting up 3 WAR or less who are worth a lot less than $8M/WAR. You can still argue the return was underwhelming, but it’s not because Arenado was overpaid in the first place except maybe in the last couple years of the contract.
I partly, but do not entirely agree. Here’s where I disagree: The contract was underwater. If he was healthy they might get something good back if they ate that much of the contract, but with the injury the headliner was always going to look like Austin Gomber. If they “had” to trade him, this was as good as they were going to get.
But I still don’t like the deal. I would have traded Story and Marquez and dared him to opt-out after he had a shot to rebuild his value, or at least, traded him when he was healthy. The Rockies have actually done okay on trades.
So I do think this comes down to: Did they “have” to trade him? And while it’s hard to tell who is at fault, the answer in this situation usually comes back to the ownership. Trading Story and Marquez would cut the same amount of costs in 2021, set them up better for future success, and would probably give them a shot to exit the contract completely and/or get some value back for him. But they’re talking about pivoting to extending Story, which sounds totally nonsensical and further makes me think this is an ownership thing.
I can’t imagine Story wanting to sign an extension seeing where the Rockies are headed currently, and how they only recently signed Arenado to a long extension, only to sell him at a discount a couple years later. Perhaps they’ll use the “savings” from moving Arenado to make a huge offer to Story that he may decide he can’t refuse, but I’d look to move on if I was in his position. The Rockies, knowing that, should look to trade Story now for prospects and start a full-on rebuild. Question is, what team could they even trade him to at this moment? He’s a rental. Only a contending team would pay for that rental, and we just had multiple SS’s either get traded and/or signed as free agents with several teams. Clubs have already locked in their SS’s as ST camps are set to open in a couple weeks. They waited too long if they were entertaining trading Story now. That may indicate they really are going to try and sign Story, but it takes two to tango, and one of the partners may not have happy feet currently.
The market for Story a year from now will be high. At this moment, however, it appears to be limited.
Right.
A one year rental SS *now*?
Most contenders and pretenders have made their moves already.
Who remains?
The Reds should at least be talking about Story.
Sure. Any team that looks to contend and needs a SS should be at the top of the list. The Reds and the A’s are at the top of that list. The challenge is I can’t see either team paying his $18.5M salary in 2021, plus paying the prospect cost to acquire him knowing it’s a one-year rental. That gets back to my original point about timing. He’s a talented player who teams would want, but timing may be the Rockies downfall here.
Timing.
Exactly.
In December they could’ve moved all three.
But now most of the contenders and pretenders are set at SS.
If tge Reds were pretending to comoete they wouldn’t be looking to move Gray and/or Castillo.
And does anybody really see Oakland spending $18M on a rental?
Last week Philly might’ve taken Story but they gave a Didi a two year deal.
So, who remains?
Texas? They’re sort-of rebuilding after moving Lynn.
If they do find a taker it would be a pure salary dump with nithing even close to fair value back.
The Cardinals could really use an upgrade at SS! DeJong is not a championship-caliber player. Maybe the Rockies would take Rob Kaminsky in exchange? 😉
Yes, trading Arenado while keeping Story would be hugely idiotic. Unfortunately they have now waited until most of the SS needy teams are set for the start of the season. Maybe the Angels blow them away, otherwise it’s the trade deadline.
Who says he’s still not healthy? I thought all indications were that his shoulder should be fine. There’s always a chance for a setback, but his health shouldn’t be a major contributing factor on the trade return.
not a rockies fan by any stretch. from a neutral perspective, their farm system and player development *at the minor league level* seems to have been extraordinary – just since 2015, all of the following is talent that has been on the rockies roster and is entirely or predominantly home grown: lemahieu, story, arenado, blackmon, gonzalez, dahl, marquez, chatwood, freeland, senzatela, gray, mcmahon, hampson, tulowitzki.
that’s sort of insane! there are eight all-star (or close enough) players in there and the rest are at least solid MLB roster guys.
the free agent signings and front office work (inclusive of further development of players at the mlb level and their medical team – maybe its in the beer and high altitude, but that team has been like a mash unit) has been mindbendingly bad – look at their history during the last half decade alone; as has been pointed out elsewhere, they haven’t made a single “good” free agent signing, period.
that said, while the quality of the talent they got back from the cardinals can be argued, i think this is actually a smart time to cut bait on arenado. i know home/road splits aren’t as much as they used to be, but his are legitimately brutal and the shoulder injury last year seemed to sap his power and bat speed. his swing path coming around from the load position seemed substantially different than previous years. were i the cardinals, i’d be very concerned about having now having a third based matched set with goldschmidt.
…I think the Cardinals would be quite pleased to see a matching stat line of .304/.417/.466 to pair with Goldy.
that’s just last year – .270/.364/.473 for goldschmidt since joining st. loo (for 52mm).
2019 was easily Goldy’s worst full season to date (yet still significantly above-average) and likely a fluke. I wouldn’t expect him to fall back to that level for at least a couple more years.
i’d be more willing to throw out 2020 vs. 2019. goldie’s batting average and obp declined five straight seasons prior to 2020, and his slugging and obp declined three straight seasons prior to 2020, with his bb rate declining and his strikeouts increasing as well overall.
he’s slower, he’s hitting fewer doubles (as well as home runs), he’s striking out more, and his defense has slipped substantially.
don’t get me wrong – he’s still a fine first baseman, and i think his ‘downside’ is 2019ish – .250-260 with good power numbers shielding an overall decline and probably made to look better by a reasonably well-stocked lineup. goldschmidt is still one of the better options in the nl for a 1b-only guy, but that’s more telling of his lack of optionality from a positional perspective than anything else – all things considered, 26mm for that level of production is a LOT in today’s market.
i’m not crapping on goldschmidt – i think he’s been a fantastic player, but the cardinals are paying for his downside. i’d be a bit leery of arenado for the same reasons. all that said, the cardinals got a steal of a deal, i’m just not sure as to how much of a steal it’ll actually end up being.
Either Ben has a very good at-home espresso maker, or as a Cardinals fan he’s had substantial parts of this article pre-written for the past 15 months.
So part of the secret is that when something like this looks like it might happen, the authors do a “pre-write” where they get as much done as they can before it happens. So Dan did not run those projections last night; Ben probably said “hey, I’m working a pre-write for this, can you run these different scenarios?” at some point in December.
What’s impressive about this article is that the pre-written part is probably less than half of the article. Between the prospects and the weird restructuring of the contract (and, to a lesser extent, the destination itself) there are certain things he could not have predicted. So yeah, it’s a little of both, but there’s a lot here!
I actually only started pre-writing at about 4 pm yesterday, but I did have a good idea of how I’d write about an Arenado deal. I think Dan ran that all bespoke, though. ZiPS is just awesome.
I see you post on literally every article on this website.
Do you pre-write your responses to the authors’ pre-writes?
No I just have a lot of downtime when my code is running.
Has someone confirmed whether Colorado doesn’t have to pay the full $50M if Arenado opts-out? It would be pure Rockies to have forgotten to include that clause and end up paying the Cardinals $50M for Arenado to pay for just one season for them.
The Cardinals have had a few trades where they targeted some weird thing like that to make it a much better deal than it looks at first glance. Makes me think of the heist that was the Joe Kelly+Allen Craig for John Lackey+some minor league dude, where they got rid of a very bad Craig and gained half a season of Lackey at whatever cost, and a whole season at league minimum, for the price of one mediocre but promising swingman.
To me, it would not make sense for the bulk of the added money to go to the Cards if Arenado opts out. It could also be prohibited by MLB rules. Even without the money going over if Arenado opts out, this deal works for the Cards unless Arenado turns into a pumpkin. If Arenado is amazing, even at a high salary, he will be worth a poo poo platter of middling prospects for one or two season. If Arenado is good but not great, he doesn’t opt out, but he’s still likely to be well worth the portion of his contract the Cards will pay with the rest paid by Colorado.
I wondered about this too — seems bizarre if it can end up where the Rockies end up paying about $15M more to not have Arenado than to have had him for a year.
Usually the cash in trades like this is paid out over the length of the deal, not immediate. So it would be $50M paid out over 5 years ($10M per year or however they decided to structure it). If he opts out I would assume the Rockies only have to pay for the years he played on that specific contract. I.e. If he opted out but re-signed they would not have to pay the remainder.
Well, trying very, very hard to see some good in this for the Rox, perhaps they’ll finally give guys like Rodgers full seasons to show what they can do. I’m not saying that is going to lead anywhere, just that Colorado has done a poor job in my view of putting talent into MLB situations enough to fairly evaluate (much less showcase those guys to inevitably trade them). I’m fully open to anybody’s insight who knows more about the Rockies, so if their young players like Rodgers are just terrible then please let me know.
The Rockies outlook is bad right now, but it was bad before the trade, too. Whether or not they kept Arenado, there was no realistic path to being a competitor in the NL West in 2021 or 2022. Even if the injury turns out to be a fluke, the way those contracts are structured, the value is front loaded. By the time they could conceivably surround Arenado with a good supporting cast, he would be in his decline phase anyway.
Now again, this is not the kind of massive haul that kick starts a rebuild and puts them on the path to contention, but that’s because Arenado’s trade value was limited by his contract. He just wasn’t a particularly valuable asset considering the contract.
I’m at the point of finding a new team to root for after how the ownership and front office have broken the team.
If I was looking for a new team to root for (which I’m not), I’d pick the Twins. Hard to root for teams that are super rich or constrained, and the Twins are smart enough not to give you quite as many headaches as the Mariners would.
Actually, the Cardinals kind of fit that definition too; they’re a Top 10 MLB team in terms of revenues, but the market size is a lot smaller than every other team in the Top 15, so they punch above their weight.
But then he’d be a Cardinals fan, you see. That’s not something we should encourage.
The Cardinals can make fans out of crushed Rockies fans and hope, too.
Well, the Cardinals used to cater to the Rocky Mountain region (among other places) back when they (and the Browns) were the furthest team west, so why not?
This is fair. Cardinals are a good team to be a fan of, but it is not good to be a Cardinals fan.
So, I recommend the Twins.
My rubric for alt-teams is other league/other division. So moving from NL West I would look for AL Central or AL East. Tampa Bay could be fun. The Blue Jays, too, but they’re homeless right now. But I think the Twins are an awesome pick from the AL Central…. though you’re rolling the dice on a franchise that just keeps losing in the post-season! The Cleveland Baseball Team might be a decent option too. Or the W Sox?
FWIW re: STL, you could always take the less annoying Missouri team, the Royals. They’re the most recent victors of all teams mentioned, but that’s all anyone can say about them I guess
You could be a Pirates fan
As a Pirates fan living in CO….I’ll be watching the Padres
“let’s skip all that for now and focus on what St. Louis is getting on the field.”
Answer: We have no idea! He put up six wins in his last full season, is coming off a terrible partial season likely due to a shoulder injury, which might be completely healed and he’ll bounce back to his old self or he might not bounce back, he’s at the age when players start to decline anyway, and on top of that, his home park makes it very difficult to imagine how he’ll play in a new place (and home / road splits don’t always make sense because some players just play better at home no matter what their home park is like). There’s are so many question marks here!
I do think this might work, but Arenado has to be healthy. Your guess is as good as mine about that (and better than mine if you’re a physical therapist). If he’s a 5-win player in 2021, then shelling out $25M at the beginning sounds pretty good! That’s obviously a good world. For the Cardinals. It could probably be okay if Arenado is a 4-win player in 2021.
So what exactly did he do to that shoulder? How bad is it? What’s the recovery look like? A 4-win Arenado in 2021 is good enough to make it worth it, and a 5-win Arenado in 2021 is a very good deal. A 3-win Arenado is not very good for them.
The other thing is that he can’t use the first opt-out; that would be really bad but I also don’t think it’s going to happen. Yes there’s a huge difference between paying $50M for two years and 7.5-9.5 wins and $25M for 4-5 wins. But I don’t think he is exercising either opt-out, and the second opt-out is an easy giveaway because Arenado is not turning down making over $30M for his decline years, and if he does, then I think the Cards will happily go on their way. The only reason to think he might opt out is that the Cardinals have often gotten guys in trades, showed them how great it is to play in St. Louis, and then they want to stay. But there won’t be many (or any) fans in the stadiums in 2021 so it’s hard to know how that will work. Still, I think he’s going to be St. Louis for the next six years, no matter what else happens.
Agreed. Arendao will be in St. Louis for the next 6 years. I really can’t see a scenario where he opts out. If he does, that means he had an amazing year or two (7+ wins per season), otherwise, his contract is already over market rate. And if that were to happen, I’m pretty sure the Cardinals are good with the final outcome as they essentially gave up nothing to get a superstar at a discounted rate.
Everyone seems to think this is a steal for the cardinals, but even the optimistic no injury zips adds up to about 20.5 war over 7 years. Cardinals will pay $149 + $15m (plus value of prospects and players, say they are worth another $5m) = $169/7= $8.6m per WAR minus the deferrals, which with such low inflation must be more of a tax or cash flow thing.
Isn’t that basically Arenado’s free agent value and what you would guess for a year like this? Especially with so much WAR coming from defense? And yes, nonlinearity for stars and all. And I still like the deal, I just don’t see Colorado being fleeced.
I don’t think it’s a “steal” as much as it is a solid baseball move. I don’t think the Rockies got ripped off or anything. But it is true that anytime you sign someone to a massive contract and then have to pay it down to get little in return two years later, that means you probably screwed up somewhere.
The Rockies suck, but they also got dealt kind of a rough hand. That contract seemed reasonably OK when they signed it (the early opt out was problematic). It’s hard to blame them for the general market decrease in $/win or Arenado’s shoulder injury, and those are really why the contract is so underwater.
Of course if they had constructed a competent team he wouldn’t be so hell bent on getting out of there, and that’s definitely on the Rockies.
The Nats were asked to benchmark Rendon’s extension/contract against Arenado’s and said, no, that’s not a good baseline. I wish they had signed Rendon instead of Stras, but the $50m tells you the Nats had a good sense of the overpay and how it would poison negotiations with Rendon.
I had been a season ticket holder since inception (1993), but finally pulled the plug…this trade vindicates my decision.
It’s obvious that Monfort has no motivation to invest $$ to improve the Rockies team. He only cares about saving money, and is taking Rockies fanbase for granted. He thinks fans will attend Rockies game regardless of how terrible the team will be in Y2021 and for the next few years to come, because Coors Field is a great place to see baseball. We shall see.
No way Trevor Story will be with this team after he opts for free agency…likely he’ll also be traded by year end…sad for the Rockies and the true fans.
He has spent a LOT of money trying to improve the team. Just very, very badly.
First off, great write up Ben! But I have a question. How are the ZIPS listed here different than the actual player page?
Are the ones you used already park adjusted?
Yeah, Dan re-runs the projections in new home parks, which explains the variation.
This guy will go the way of Todd Helton, Vinny Castilla, etc. A product of Coors field
Look up his splits.
Even with the “Coors effect” boosting home and depressing away performance, his floor looks something like .250 with 30HRs. With his defense that’s pretty good.
Biggest drop will almost certainly be the triples.
Well Todd Helton never left Colorado.
Arenado could be Carlos Gonzalez and be a complete Coors Creation, or he could be Matt Holliday and hit wherever he plays. Luckily, we’ll have a definitive answer
Almost assuredly the latter. As is, his career SLG on the road is just a tick under .500. His stats do not indicate he’s a Coors creation. He’s more likely someone who is dealing with the Coors effect. His home stats will decrease, but his road stats will increase. His production will look a bit different, but we’re still looking at something like a .265, 35 HR production with elite defense.
We won’t really know if he was a Coors Field creation if he plays worse elsewhere, because he is of an age where players tend to decline. It’s a bit of the reverse of the old adage that players couldn’t handle playing in New York, but conveniently the players that “couldn’t handle New York” were always veterans on the wrong side of 30. But the common refrain was that somehow the NY spotlight was what got to them, when really it seems likely it was Father Time.
But then there was Whitson.
This is the exact kind of fact-based analysis I’d expect from Milton Friedman.
He’s a 29 yr old GG defender whose floor is “best player on your team.” Jeez.
This is a very good reply to anything with Milton Friedman’s name attached to it. The invisible hand of Coors Field is magic but like, only when that supports the conclusion Milton already arrived at. In conclusion: tax cuts for the rich. Goodnight!
When did Fangraphs become so overtly political? I gifted friends memberships when the pandemic started in hopes of helping it stay afloat, but I completely regret that now. I wouldn’t mind this place just ceasing to exist. Every post and its comments are filled with political commentary. There are plenty of other places online for that. Let’s stick to baseball here.
“I wouldn’t mind this place just ceasing to exist.”
A) Just calling for a website to cease and a lot of people to be out of work because you don’t like the commentary (from some commenters, who the site authors have zero control over)? That says something about you that is…less-than-good.
B) Can you easily scroll past when things turn political? You can. I’ll be glad to show how.
C) If it is so, so bothersome, why come back? Why put yourself through that?
Do you have a background in economics?
If by “the way of Todd Helton” you mean Hall of Famer, sure?
Whatever….the guy never hit another home run after he left Coors.
TIL that Todd Helton is a “product of Coors Field”. Who knew?
Congratulations, you did it, the absolute stupidest “COORZ” take of all time.
We can lambaste the Rockies front office for previous decisions and it would be completely warranted, however, trading Arenado was the correct decision right now. This team was bad with our without Arenado. What I don’t understand is the players they are getting in return. Now without Arenado, it’s clear this team needs to commit to a full rebuild. Instead of getting players like Gomber and Woodruff, they should be getting more players than look like Torres. Getting low ceiling, MLB ready talent is going to do nothing but prolong the rebuild. They would be much better off getting a bunch of 40 FV low minors guys with high ceilings. They would be wise to move Story next. He’s very unlikely to resign and should be able to bring in a few solid prospects. They need to start laying down the framework or a plan to compete in 2023/2024.
The problem with your premise is you’re thinking logically. And the Rockies don’t do that, as we all know. This is what happens when you have an owner who doesn’t know how baseball works making important baseball decisions.
In the context of what the previous contracts created, yes.
But in the alternate reality where they didn’t waste all that money and at bats, they wouldn’t have to make a trade at all. He wouldn’t have asked.
I said this earlier, but I would have traded Story and Marquez instead. If Arenado opted in, he would have lost the no-trade protection under the previous deal (I think),it would have been a year or two before he got 10-5 rights, and he would have been a year removed from injury. It could have blown up for them, I guess, if he didn’t recover and didn’t hit well, but even if he matches the ZiPs projection as of now (4 wins) you could trade him for better prospects or eating less money. So I would have taken that chance.
The Rockies manage their prospects very poorly.
“…and I guarantee you that the other teams in the NL Central are unhappy tonight.”
This implies someone (anyone) else in the NL Central is trying to win right now. Which they are not.
They might be thinking that under *those* terms they could’ve gotten him.
True–this is good news for the Pirates who appear to be aiming for ’23 and beyond. The Cards adding Arenado makes it more likely the Pirates get a higher draft pick, and by the time the Pirates are ready to contend Arenado won’t be much of a factor.
Well, they were hoping that the Cardinals were also not trying to compete, thus leaving open the chance (aside from the Pirates) of winning the division semi-randomly by default.
The one thing this team is missing is another playoff-worthy starter, along with Flaherty. The perfect fit was probably old friend Lance Lynn, but he’s clearly not available now. Bauer, I guess, but the idea of Bauer on the Cardinals seems odd. And unfortunately, because they play in the same division as the Reds and Cubs it seems unlikely they could get Hendricks or Gray; it’s certainly possible, just less likely. Maybe they could follow up with a trade for German Marquez. Joe Musgrove isn’t on that level but he would have been a good fit, too.
In the old days, Billy Beane would’ve worked a three way deal to get something for the A’s. Maybe Carpenter and some high minors talent.
They’ve got Flaherty, Kim, Mikolas, Wainwright, and Martinez. The big question mark is Martinez, the others I think are the steady high-floor types the Cardinals have become known for. Ponce, Cabrera, Gant, and Reyes could all potentially be stretched out as well if Martinez can’t get it together. (In fact it would not shock me if Martinez gets traded in-season.) And they’re also getting Hicks back. I think they’ll be just fine pitching wise.
The real question in my mind is whether the outfield can hit well enough. I feel good about Carlson breaking out, but Bader/Fowler/O’Neill/Thomas….man there’s a lot of downside risk there on offense. The bottom third of that lineup is potentially pretty ugly, even if the top looks worlds better with the addition of Arenado and subtraction of Carpenter.
They’ve got plenty of depth in the rotation, but generally in the playoffs you want some higher-end pitchers in those first three slots. This was why the Yankees stockpiled all those high-end guys who have been hurt lately. In the NL, you’d be going up against some of the following rotations:
-Buehler, Kershaw, Urias, and maybe Price or May
-Darvish, Snell, Lamet, and maybe Musgrove
-deGrom, Carrasco, Stroman, and maybe Syndergaard
-Fried, Soroka, Morton, and maybe Anderson
Would you feel comfortable rolling with a Flaherty, Kim, and Mikolas as your top 3? Against any of those other team? It’s the #22 rotation by Depth Charts, so there’s a lot of room to improve–but only with another guy like Marquez, Gray, Hendricks, etc. Taijuan Walker would be a bit of a waste for them.
I think the Cards are banking on at least one of Martinez, Reyes, and Liberatore to be an impact arm by October. If just one of them pops then Flaherty-MrPop-Mikolas is a perfectly fine top-3 to go into a short series with, esp since their pen and overall depth are really strong.
If Mikolas and/or Martinez can rebound back to what they were a couple of years ago, then they are those other higher-end starters. Kim has a chance to be that, as well, and Wainwright can still pitch a big game every now and then, while Reyes is one of the best 6th starter options out there. I’d be quite comfortable running them out against any NL rotation other than the Dodgers or Padres.
I wish them luck, but there are big question marks all over that rotation. Even Flaherty was downright awful last year. Below replacement Probably just an injury-related fluke. Wainwright is 40 and whatever you get from him is gravy, but this not a 60 game season any longer. Kim was better in MLB than he ever was in Korea, which … yeah I don’t think so. The peripherals scream regression. Only Mikolas kind of is what he is, which is a mid-rotation stalwart. And unless I’ve added wrong, that’s 4, not 5. CMart is another source of huge uncertainty if they turn him back into a starter. If he succeeds he might be the first to ever go from starter to reliever back to starter again.
Combine that with an awful outfield, and yeah, I’m not seeing a dominant team. In that division, though, it may be enough. Still think the Cubs are favored.
John Smoltz. Not saying CMart is Smoltz but he’s also younger than when Smoltz changed and and changed back.
Are you looking at the right stats for Flaherty? He had an xFIP of 3.42. One or two bad games can totally kill a pitcher’s ERA when said pitcher only throws 40 IP. I think you’re right about the other pitchers, and yes, Arenado probably doesn’t make this a 90-win team, but there’s nothing to suggest Flaherty was bad or will be bad this season.
The outfield is somewhat concerning, but it’s not awful. Fowler is still an average player, Bader added back some offense last year which made him above-average when combined with his excellent defense, and Carlson had that promising late season breakout that makes him an early favorite for 2021 NL Rookie of the Year.
While behind them right now are just some AAAA guys, but there are reasons why O’Neill and Thomas were highly regardless prospects, and one or both of them could still potentially break out. There’s also a small chance for Carpenter to rebound and take over the every day role at 2B (assuming no DH), thus allowing Edman more playing time in the OF.
It’s just that Bader and Fowler missed significant time last season (compared to the 58 games that were played), Carlson was terrible at the beginning and then sent down before having his breakout, and they got almost nothing from anyone else like O’Neill and Thomas save for the limited games that Edman played OF.
So yes, there are still question marks in the OF, but it’s in better shape than most people give it credit for.
Maybe next year. The Cards have btw/ $45M to $75M coming off the books after this season, including contracts with Wainwright, Martinez (club option) and Kim. Outside of the usual names for the rotation, there have been rumors that Alex Reyes will get a chance in the rotation, and Liberatore later in the year. I think they sort through what they have this season and based upon how the Arenado deal was structured, they don’t appear to want to spend next year’s surplus this year.
I agree and am surprised Marquez wasn’t part of this deal. Could have gotten better prospects AND potentially paid less $. But honestly, I like your previous plan better- trading Story and German and forcing his hand. That would have been a truly outside the box way of going about a tear down, trading the better cheaper pieces first instead of the disgruntled star. But not to beat a dead horse, Rockies front office doesn’t think that way.
Whoops boy, I really didn’t fully and actually expect Arenado to land somewhere else, especially for a team that didn’t pick up Kolten Wong’s reasonable option, but I guess the cash sent does help.
This Rockies front office might as well tank.
Interesting point about not picking up Wong’s option, which I thought at the time was a significant mistake. They must have seen this trade coming a long way away.
That said, I’m not as high on this trade for St. Louis as some, in light of that organization’s propensity for spinning minor-league flax into major-league gold. All it takes is one of the trade chips way overperforming (which I see Gomber in particular as capable of doing) and this trade looks a lot better for Colorado in the long run than it does now. Problem is, the Colorado organization has not been nearly as good at developing middling prospects as the Cardinals have, so in all likelihood, we’ll never know how that might have worked out. Back on the Cardinals side: which would be better for the team, 2 and maybe 5 years of Arenado, or 2 more years of Wong and those same trade chips to develop in their usual inscrutable way? The last clause there being the thing that gets me wondering.
But if the Cardinals are going to always do that “spin go out of flax” thing, they should trading in some f those chips for the guys they can’t develop. Arenado is better than anyone they’ve developed on the position side since at least Carpenter, and probably going back to Pujols. They’ve made their living turning guys into solidly above average regulars, but most of those dudes too out at 4 wins, not project for it
It’s 1, 2, or 7 years of Arenado Vs. 1 year of Wong plus the trade chips.
As for the answer, even if Gomber develops into an above-average starter for Colorado for the next 6 or more years, I’d still rather have Arenado unless he opts out after just 1 year in St. Louis. You have to give up something to get something, after all, and I don’t mind trades where both teams win unless the other team beats my team in the playoffs with the help of their side of the trade.
To be fair, the Cardinals wouldn’t have been able to do this had they not saved that $12.5M by declining Wong’s option. Mozeliak and Girsch said declining his option was a matter of increasing payroll flexibility for their offseason moves, and they turned out to be telling the truth.
Thank you for this on a Saturday. Always been frustrated that FG won’t cover huge stories on weekends (I.e. Hank Aaron), when leisure reading time is its highest and every other site does cover (often just not as well as FG would/could). Really appreciate breaking the rule for something like this. Site should see a nice traffic bump this weekend because of it too. Well done, Sir Clemens. Appreciate you.
Thanks! It was honestly not so bad, although my weekly (via Google Meet) poker game might disagree — I spent a lot of time half-playing while I researched this one. Sorry, guys!
Hey Ben, what site are you using for your game? I’m trying pokernow.club and liking it so far, but if I’m to set up a weekly game, it needs to have a tournament mode where it combines tables as players fall out.
Donkhouse. It’s great, honestly the best imitation of a home game I’ve ever seen.
Has that always been the case regarding not covering big stories on the weekend? I thought maybe it was simply related to this “lovely” year that just passed where they likely had to cut back as site visits decreased and thus ad revenue cratered as baseball ground to a halt. I figured maybe they simply gave their writers the weekends off until things normalize again, hopefully, throughout 2021. Even this offseason had to be a significant challenge as very little was happening for two months.
At first blush, I agree with you – I am Fangraphs starved some weekends.
On the other hand, Fangraphs has given me countless hours/days/weeks/months of content for… oh wow… 10+ years? I can’t really be mad.
Excellent article. This is Fangraphs at it’s best. Objective with no stone left unturned.
I’m starting to think that Bridich guy is not a very good GM…
Probably the worst gm in baseball now that the Mets dumped Brodie
I still would like to remind everyone that Jon Daniels is also (un)deserving, because he’s had a decade to fix the player development issues and he just hasn’t. Brdich’s problems are more obvious because they happen in a flash, while development problems are so slow they’re difficult to notice.
I feel like every other front office is clearly ahead of both the Rockies and Rangers.
Is it the GM’s job to fix player development, though? That seems to be the fault of the scouts and Minor League coaches (and to a degree the Major League coaches).
We’ll never really know if BVW could have been a good GM. Much of what he did was likely driven at the request of the former ownership. That said, he’s likely back where he belongs on the agent side, where he can now bring a more enlightened perspective on the needs of the front office when negotiating deals. That may make him an even better agent, something he was already good at to begin with.
That describes Bridich too, to be fair.
BVW’s drafts got high reviews, although we haven’t seen them bear fruit yet.
I can’t believe I’m saying this, and I know the answer is, “No, and maybe lie down for a second,” but the Dodgers overpay *in retrocontext* for Betts? Or are the Rockies really that bad?
I don’t understand what you’re asking. Are you talking about the trade for Betts or the extension?
The Dodgers deal for Betts was never as skewed (against the BoSox), in terms of value per $, as it was made out to be. People were just mad about the BoSox not wanting to pay luxury tax for a team that was unlikely to be competitive with or without Betts (and they were 100% correct about their competitive chances in 2020), so they went a little hyperbolic.
There is something to be said that fandom isn’t *only* about winning championships – having great players who are great, friendly people (like Betts) be stalwarts of a franchise has value to fans. Someone you can rally around, always think fondly of, etc. is great, even if the “$ per WAR” is not great.
This very much applies to Arenado too, which is why we’re seeing Rockies fans hurt as well. Sure, maybe it was a good baseball-results-only move, but I don’t think that’s the only thing that matters to fans – at least not to me.
I agree with this, I live in Colorado and can tell you that this trade is going to make the Rockies lose a solid percentage of fans for life. There are a lot of casual fans who this will drive away. Attendance will probably still be decent because people go to games to party but TV viewership and merchandise sales will definitely drop noticeably for a couple years at least
There is, but there’s also something to be said for winning. And this trade will make the Red Sox win more over a 3-5 year window than they otherwise would have.
Mookie was much younger than Arenado.
Rockies are the next gamestop
TO THE MOON!!
Everyone here bashing the Rockies is forgetting this team was interpolated to win 94 games in 2020! Sure it will go down a bit this season but it’ll probably still be around 90 wins, just ask Dick Monfort.
Trading Arenado is rather obviously the correct move, but it’s the decisions that got to this point are what the bashing is for
Am I the only person who thinks both teams did poorly here? Obviously the Rockies are a mess, but the Cardinals just committed 7yrs/$165 (including the 1/$15 they added to the back-end and minus $50M from Col) to a 30 year old coming off a 76 wRC+. I know he had a shoulder injury; but the best predictor of future injuries is past injuries, and there are no guarantees he goes back to the Arenado of prior years as he moves into his 30s.
I just highly doubt Arenado gets 7/165 this off season as a free agent. Why not sign Springer (146 wRC+ last year) for 6/150 and keep your three prospects? Or maybe spend a similar $ amount to what Arenado will earn in 2021 and save your money for next years great free agent class … Quintana/Minor/La Stella (~$24M in 2021) or go the super bullpen route of Iglesias/May/Quintana (also ~$24M in 2021 dollars). Lots of better ways to spend $165M than on a 30 year old coming off a terrible year in my opinion. Think the Cardinals could have done much better.
As a St. Louis fan I’d much rather have Arenado’s upside than watch the front office try and build a “super bullpen.” Recent history says evaluating free agent relievers ain’t their strong suit.
Brett Cecil + Luke Gregerson + Greg Holland + Andrew Miller = 211 innings and a collective sub-replacement level 5.20 ERA. All that, for $70MM (so far) and a first round draft pick as Holland compensation. Bleccch.
All big trades/signings come with substantial risk, obviously. But Arenado was one of the most durable players in MLB from 2015-2019 — led all batters in total bases over that half decade — so it’s a reasonable wager that he’ll return to being his reliable self, in my opinion. My admittedly biased opinion.
The drawback in the trade is surrendering a pitcher with a 3.47 ERA as an MLB starter, and a sub-2.00 ERA in 2020. Austin Gomber has a non-trivial chance to be another Marco Gonzales type mis-evaluation by the St. Louis front office. Heaven knows what effect Coors will have on him, but there’s mid-rotation potential there.
With Dakota Hudson out for the season, plus the losses of Gomber, Wong, and last year’s second-best hitter on the team (Brad Miller), the Cardinals are still not division favorites by my lights. I’d put their over/under at ~86 games, same as the Cubs. Reds and Brewers maybe 83 or so.
Not sure it’s fair to say a team shouldn’t sign free agents just because there have been poor signings in the past. Doesn’t every team miss on some free agents? Also, the expensive Cardinal relievers you reference (Brett Cecil / Andrew Miller) signed for 4 & 3yrs respectively. Good RPs can be had for 1 or 2yr deals this off-season, so there is substantially less risk than in those past instances.
Even Cleveland mznaged to exorcise their ghosts and signed a competent OF.
(That rates as a miraclr, I know, but yeah. Even the cheapes of owners has to let go of past bad outcomes.)
How so? Even without Gomber, the Cardinals have a better pitching staff than any of the other 3 teams. Yeah, they lost Hudson, but they’re getting Mikolas, Martinez, and Hicks back after they missed most or all of last season.
Meanwhile, adding Arenado plus a whole season of Carlson (while they don’t really need Brad Miller if there’s no DH this season) gives them a decent offense with only the Cubs having a significantly better one.
Yes, you are.
This deal has a lot more risk than you usually get when you trade for a big star. The shoulder is the big one, but there’s also the question of how his offense translates outside of Coors.
I’m not sure how I feel about the Arenado / Springer comparison. Springer himself hasn’t been all that durable, and he’ll probably have to move to a corner at some point. I think that Arenado is worth a little bit more than Springer, but not much, and so it’s probably 50/50 which one you’d rather have (I don’t really see the players the Cardinals gave up as a big deal; giving up your 2nd rounder or whatever for Springer cuts into that anyway).
Completely agree. I don’t like this at all for the Cards. The Springer example was the perfect argument. Same age, also plays a position of need, no return needed.
Ummm, Springer is actually 1 yr 7 months older which is significant.
No return needed except more money than they can currently spend.
Besides, replacing Carpenter in the lineup is better than replacing Fowler, who is still a decent player.
First of all, the chances of Arenado remaining a below-average hitter are very small.
Second, players don’t usually decline that much until they reach their mid-30s. Getting a guy for his age 30-36 seasons isn’t bad, even if the last couple of years aren’t that good. It worked out with Holliday.
Third, the Cardinals could only make this deal due to the $50M from Colorado and the added deferred salary. They wouldn’t be able to afford Springer’s salary in their 2021 payroll.
Fourth, building a “super bullpen” would’ve been pointless when they already have a great bullpen and needed more offense to truly compete.
What are the chances that both Story and Marquez are gone by the start of the season?
Story: High
Marquez: Someone’s gotta blow the Rockies away. Rockies actually have a pretty damn decent rotation, adding Gomber to the back end now. With some depth. They probably won’t lose 100 games, or very close, unless it’s because the Dodgers and Padres are so good that they beat the Rox 15 times each.
whoops, wrong reply.
Marquez more likely than Story.
Who has a bigger market *today* a one year SS or a ywo year 3-4 WAR starter with two years? Lots of teams could use Marquez; most contenders and pretenders already made their moves. Who remains?
If the Rox are to rebuild they’ll get more for Marquez.
I’m kind of hoping the Angels dangle Jo Adell as the headliner for either Luis Castillo or German Marquez.
Twins could trade for Marquez or Castillo as well, if they were willing to part with Royce Lewis. Possible!
The Cards could really use Marquez too, although the Rockies would have to be high on some combination of Reyes, Helsley, Liberatore, Genesis Cabrera, and Tyler O’Neill. Possible. Not as likely as the first two. Maybe the Blue Jays would be interested too.
I have no idea about Story. Logic would dictate “no”, but if the Rockies really do think they can extend him, they might hold on to him long enough that everyone who would have traded for him moved on. It’s partially happened already.
Marquez for Keibert Ruiz and Kody Hoese, who says no
The cardinals got Arenado, $50mil, and deferred salary for the equivalent of fringy starter/bullpen piece and a corner outfield project with like a 2 WAR ceiling? Maybe some other spare parts? Absolutely masterpiece by Mozeilak and Girsh
I think STL will be wishing they could undo this trade in 2022. On paper this looks like a strong move to try and win a division nobody seems interested to win, but between Arenado and Goldschmidt contracts STL will be in deep doo-doo in a couple years.
The Arenado/Goldschmidt contracts will sting at some point, but there is SO MUCH player payroll coming off the books after 2021 or 2022, I can’t envision a budget squeeze in the foreseeable future. Basically half the current payroll will be shed over the next 24 months.
Fowler, gone after 2021.
Andrew Miller, same.
Carlos Martinez, same.
That’s 40 million right there.
And Matt Carpenter, Adam Wainwright, and Yadi Molina will depart after either this year or next. That’ll be another 40 million, or nearly so. (And it’s not like there’ll be a ton of production to replace. In 2020 the six guys just cited combined for a grand total of -0.1 bWAR.)
If either Knizner or Herrera pans out they don’t need a catcher. There are 3 or 4 reasonable possibilities to replace Wainwright’s contributions by mid-2022. And relief arms like the current versions of Miller and Martinez can come from anywhere — pacific rim signings, Spring Training NRIs, failed starters, etc.
Depending on how Arenado’s deferred money is structured, they may have the flexibility to sign Jack Flaherty and even one other guy to nine-figure deals over the next few years.
This feels like the Cardinals are betting on their player development to subsidize these big contracts. And that’s exactly what saber-minded Cardinals fans have been clamoring for for years, here and at Viva El Birdos: if you know you can basically always rely on churning out quality depth (2-3 win guys), you should absolutely take big shots like this. The biggest free agent the team has signed in the paat decade who didn’t play for the team was…. Dexter Fowler? Johnny Peralta? Carlos Beltrán, in 2012, for a 2 year deal?
The Cardinals always rely on creating high quality depth, and they probably always will. If they weren’t going to spend $40 million a year on someone like Betts or Lindor, spending $25 million on Arenado bests the hell out of spending $30 million on two of Fowler/Mike Leake/Brett Cecil. We can argue all we want about the constraints the FO chooses to work under, but they do a good job of working within those constraints.
Um, Beltran was a great signing, and while Fowler hasn’t worked out as hoped he’s still put up decent value aside from 2018.
Well, if Molina returns, he’s not getting paid anywhere near as much as he was per season on his previous deal, so the savings won’t be that much once he retires. Also, there’s no way Carpenter’s option gets picked up. It could very well be another rotation spot where they need to replace Martinez (as well as Kim if neither are resigned), although the Cardinals still have a bunch of depth in that area even without Gomber, plus Hudson will be back next season.
Otherwise, great analysis.
I certainly wouldn’t call Gomber “fringy,” but otherwise I agree.
Everyone is ignoring the elephant in the room: that Arenado takes horrible at bats. His approach is going to age very poorly. He’s a very slight drop in physical ability away from being an even more immovable contract when he’s only putting up an .800 OPS in 2022.
Nolan career road 263/322/471
Arenado 2021 ZiPS 262/331/471
Dan has to be trolling us, right?
Arenado’s peak value from 2015-2019 was essentially built on three pillars – playing time (6th in PAs), power (6th in ISO+) and defense (+75 DRS, 5th & +30.2 UZR, 13th). Playing time & power have legit questions after 2020, but I was most interested in how the glove might age, mostly as an excuse to look up Adrian Beltre.
From the first season with both DRS/UZR tracked in 2003 through Adrian’s age 29 season in 2008 he posted +105 DRS/+84.5 UZR in 7,857 innings compared to +120 DRS/+56.4 UZR in 9,225 innings for Nolan through age 29.
Over his age 30-36 seasons, Beltre posted +67 DRS/+54.4 UZR over 8,135 innings afield. Adjusted for innings, it looks Adrian’s defense, while still obviously awesome, was around 38% less so. Assuming a similar decline for Arenado would put the over under on his DRS /UZR around +74/+35 for the duration of his contract.
Ok, but why do we think that Arenado’s defense will age like Beltre’s? Especially after this shoulder injury.
Arenado posted +15 DRS/+8.5 UZR in an injury & pandemic shortened 2020, his defense hasn’t shown the same decline as of yet that the shouder injury allegedly caused to his power output.
I don’t see where anybody said Arenado’s defense would age like Beltre’s, I see an over under was arrived at using Adrian’s rate of decline as a template.
I’d take the under, personally, so I don’t think Nolan’s defense will age as well as Beltre’s.
You cannot be completely oblivious to the fact that Beltre is one of the ultimate outlier when it comes to aging.
You cannot be completely oblivious to the fact that Arenado is one of the ultimate outlier when it comes to playing third base.
Gold glove caliber fielders don’t tend to age as badly on defense as fielders who were merely around average during their peaks.
Deferred payments, a chunk of cash, and middling prospects (although I really like Torres) make this a relatively small risk, but man, that shoulder injury worries me. I remember watching Scott Rolen going from elite bat to around league-average after his shoulder injuries added up, and he was better than Arenado with the stick. We also just saw a shoulder injury prevent Ozuna from being more than a decent player before he took off in Atlanta. It’s a worthwhile gamble, and elite defense helps lift his floor, so let’s see.
Anyway, Edman isn’t Wong, but he’s still very good with the glove (7 DRS and 8.7 UZR/150 in 250 IP at the keystone)…that’s an incredible infield defense. With GG-caliber players in left and center field, STL will be the premier spot for watching defense.
I don’t see how this deal is an “unmitigated disaster” for the Rox.
If we use the included ZIPS numbers, adding say 1.3 WAR for year six, and the writer’s own guess at $8MM/WAR on the FA Market, the Rox are faced with two unpalatable options:
1. Pay $196MM for what ZIPS says is 15.7 WAR (including year six at my 1.3). 15.7*(8MM each) = $125.6MM in value. That’s an overpay of $70.4MM on average, with much uncertainty. Arenado could be better, or could be worse.
2. Put $50MM in a bag and burn it. Get some magic beans back which will likely amount to nothing. You can give up on the magic means at any time, and you might give up too late or too soon, who knows, so for purposes of argument let’s call this a totally lost $50MM with zero return, with much certainty.
The Rox chose the smaller loss with more certainty. Hardly an “unmitigated disaster”.
Underwater contracts have a way of being lousy. Who knew?
Who do you prefer? Springer for 6/150M or Arenado for 6/150M? It’s interesting these two contracts work out to be about the same.
Arenado for sure, but the Cardinals are also giving up some value in Gomber and prospects
Springer projects a higher WAR. Very close though.
Yeah, but they also gain value by keeping Fowler in the lineup over Carpenter.
Actually, it’s Arenado for 7 years and about $164M, but it’s still an interesting comparison.
The Cardinals future success depends entirely on the rotation now. Whether it’s a prospect matching 90% outcome: Liberatore, Thompson, Cabrera or Oviedo. The Cardinals rotation has Flaherty but needs someone else to counter other rotations in the playoffs.
That’s where Mikolas comes in, plus they get Hudson back next year. Also, don’t forget about Reyes.
I don’t say that often but after trading arenado the rockies really should tank big time. Padres and dodgers likely are too good anyway for them the next 3-4 years and especially so without the rockies best player.
So the best they can do now is trading anyone with less than 4 years of team control and build a top5 system in the game. If they trade story, marquez, gray and freeland that should immediately give them a top5 farm system (which now is currently very bad). Add two top4 overall picks and they would have a super farm like we have seen in the last years with the braves, cubs, rays, padres and white sox.
Still need to convert that to mlb success but it would be a start against those monster teams.
Nah, I never like tanking. Rebuilding teams should still spend some decent money on low to mid tier free agents on short-term contracts so that those guys have more options for jobs, they don’t overexpose some of their prospects before they’re ready, and so their fans don’t have to watch a disaster of a team that loses 100+ games multiple years in a row.
I’m not saying they can’t sign a cheaper free agent but the situation is pretty clear:
-padres and dodgers have a way better farm (colorado is really bad)
-padres and dodgers have way better mlb team
-at least the dodgers have way more money
So the question is how do the rockies overtake them at least in one of those.
After trading arenado it is save to say they are not improving their mlb team and they won’t outspend the dodgers anytime soon
This means they just have to build a great farm
The Angels are signing Cobb. Beat that.
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I think Austin Gomber will be a pleasant surprise for quite a few Rockies fans (as long as Coors Field doesn’t ruin him). The other players in the deal may just be lottery tickets, but Gomber is a legitimate MLB starter who would’ve been the Cardinals’ 4th starter in the playoffs last year had they made it past the first round..
This might not be as good for the Cardinals as you might think. NA’s career home road OPS split is close to 200 points. That’s not good when he will only be playing a few games a year in the spacious hitters’ paradice known as Coors Field.