Chris Coghlan, the Takeout Slide Rule, and Catcher Collisions
Injuries are an unfortunate part of most physical activities, and Major League Baseball is no exception. Players tear hamstrings running, their ACLs changing directions, and hurt their shoulders and elbows throwing. To the extent possible, those involved in the game do their very best to prevent injuries. Trainers and teams go to great lengths to strengthen and stretch out players so as many injuries as possible can be prevented. Innings and pitches are monitored to try to keep pitchers healthy.
Often, we might feel like throwing our arms up in the air and declare that prevention is impossible, but teams generally try to keep their players healthy. Whether the incentive is to achieve a greater moral good or keep valuable employees productive is debatable, but whenever an injury occurs that might be prevented, it draws attention. The attention does not focus entirely on the actual injury suffered, but whether it is possible to prevent similar future injuries. Chris Coghlan’s slide on a double play — a slide which resulted in a season-ending injury to Jung-ho Kang — is an example of the type of play and injury that spurs debate.
The takeout slide has long been part of baseball. Grant Brisbee evaluates them from time to time when discussing the unwritten rules of baseball, and has cited, for example, Hal McRae’s practice of merely running over the fielder at second base without even attempting to slide. After McRae, umpires tightened up enforcement of the rules, which read (7.09(f)):
(f) If, in the judgment of the umpire, a batter-runner willfully and deliberately interferes with a batted ball or a fielder in the act of fielding a batted ball, with the obvious intent to break up a double play, the ball is dead; the umpire shall call the batter-runner out for interference and shall also call out the runner who had advanced closest to the home plate regardless where the double play might have been possible. In no event shall bases be run because of such interference.
Edit: Rule 6.05(m) is more applicable in this situation (H/T @betterrulebook), which reads,”A preceding runner shall, in the umpire?s judgment, intentionally interfere with a fielder who is attempting to catch a thrown ball or to throw a ball in an attempt to complete any play: Rule 6.05(m) Comment: The objective of this rule is to penalize the offensive team for deliberate, unwarranted, unsportsmanlike action by the runner in leaving the baseline for the obvious purpose of crashing the pivot man on a double play, rather than trying to reach the base. Obviously this is an umpire?s judgment play”
As a matter of practical application, players are generally allowed to take out the fielder so long as they are within an arms length of the bag when they slide. Under the current application of the rule, Coghlan’s slide was legal. Still, as the image below shows Coghlan was pretty far out of the baseline and that his leg was fairly high. (The image hopefully isn’t too cringeworthy — the worse, side-angle footage was purposely avoided.).
The intent of the slide is not to injure an opponent, but for to compel him to leave his feet so that any throw to first does not have the force necessary to get the runner out. It does not always work.
Although the intent of the slide might not be to cause injury, due to the nature of the play, the risk of injury is present on all takeout slides, and it does happen, both to fielders and runners. Coghlan’s slide was pretty far from the bag, but no farther than Kang himself has previously slid — and compare the height of Coghlan’s legs above to Adrian Beltre’s on this play:
This is not to say that Beltre is a dirty player or that Kang is to blame for his injury, but only to point out that, at the moment, these actions are an accepted part of baseball. While all will not agree, it seems reasonable that if injuries could be prevented without ruining the fabric of the game, rules should be implemented to do the same. The recent lesson here comes from the rules surrounding catcher collisions.
Back before the 2014 season — following a notable injury to star Buster Posey and amidst increasing awareness to concussions throughout all sports — Major League Baseball instituted experimental rules to help prevent catcher collisions. The rules touched on the main causes of catcher collisions — that is, catchers blocking home plate without the ball and runners mauling catchers regardless of their position in relation to the plate. To address these issues, MLB created two main rules:
• A runner may not run out of a direct line to the plate in order to initiate contact with the catcher, or any player, covering the plate. If he does, the umpire can call him out even if the player taking the throw loses possession of the ball.
• The catcher may not block the pathway of a runner attempting to score unless he has possession of the ball. If the catcher blocks the runner before he has the ball, the umpire may call the runner safe.
It is important to note that MLB did not actually outlaw collisions at home plate. They addressed the principal causes of collisions, instructed teams on the same, and while the rule did cause some confusion in its first year, the rule appears to be by and large successful.
Unfortunately for our concern regarding the takeout slide, the same factors at home plate do not exist at a force at second base. Where the catcher can get in front of the plate once he has the ball, at second base, almost all takeout slides occur after the fielder has the ball. This makes the second option, arguably the more important and successful of the rules, untenable for takeout slides.
The first change does make a lot of sense. Others have called for changes in past years or discussed the potential for changes, and Mike Bates requested today that the first rule above also apply to the takeout slide. Colleges have already taken action. Below is Rule 8, Section 4 for NCAA baseball:
SECTION 4. The intent of the force-play-slide rule is to ensure the safety of all players. This is a safety and an interference rule. Whether the defense could have completed the double play has no bearing on the applicability of this rule. This rule pertains to a force-play situation at any base, regardless of the number of outs.
a. On any force play, the runner must slide on the ground before the base and in a direct line between the two bases. It is permissible for the slider’s momentum to carry him through the base in the baseline extended (see diagram).
Exception—A runner need not slide directly into a base as long as the runner slides or runs in a direction away from the fielder to avoid making contact or altering the play of the fielder. Interference shall not be called.
1) “On the ground” means either a head-first slide or a slide with one leg and buttock on the ground before the base.
2) “Directly into a base” means the runner’s entire body (feet, legs, trunk and arms) must stay in a straight line between the bases.
The NCAA rule goes on with a chart and explains that the runner’s momentum can carry him through the bag, that pop-up slides are legal, and that the penalty for violating the rule with or without contact is declaring both the runner and batter out. The above rule only applies to force outs so those players attempting to go for a double or steal a base can still try to avoid tags by moving their bodies wide of the bag and reaching out with their arms like on this Jason Heyward steal.
This rule will not eliminate the risk of injury entirely. The Beltre slide from above would likely still be legal. The Brett Lawrie play from earlier in the year would likely still be legal, but if it meant an automatic out, players would likely stop the type of takeout slide that hurt Kang, and it could also help prevent runner injuries as well considering the plays of Neil Walker (here) and Peter Bourjos (here). The takeout slide is not going to be eliminated, but it will not even be altered without a change to the rules. The outside the baseline, legs out swipe serves no purpose for the runner other than to impede the thrower after the out is made. Potentially injurious plays should be prevented if they have virtually no effect on how the game is played. Telling players to slide directly into the bag is an easy fix and hardly affects the game at all.
Craig Edwards can be found on twitter @craigjedwards.
When I saw the play live, in real time, I thought it was a clean play, and maybe its the angle, but that GIF looks pretty bad. It appears as though Coughlin can barely reach the bag, and that’s where I think his slide went too far. I’m not sure I’d want to see things go so far as you make a player slide directly into the base, but I think the NCAA rule makes allowance for the option to slide away from the defender. Can’t really make an argument against MLB adopting the NCAA rule…
Bruce Bochy could have Buster Posey start at shortstop today and the rule would be changed by tomorrow.
That GIF looks like he could totally touch the bag. There’s nothing out of the ordinary with that slide.
You’re right there is nothing out of the ordinary about the play, but that’s not the issue. Does it make sense to take this type of slide out of the game? Yes it does, you could still slide to avoid the tag, you can still do a pop up slide, slide all you want, but don’t slide away from the bag and into the defender causing injuries for the sake of a potential throwing error, even if you are within arms reach.
Coghlan’s slide wasn’t even close to the bag, and he had been forced out well in advance of his slide. Kang was several feet from second base. Coghlan actually directed his foot at Kang’s shin and his knee at Kang’s knee.
I have not seen a slide this vicious in years. This strikes me as something out of the Ty Cobb playbook, or from the 1890s Baltimore Orioles.
I am probably wrong, and I assume I am in the minority on this. Admittedly I am a biased Pirates fan. But in my view Coghlan was either trying to injure Kang or he had had such a brutally callous disregard for Kang’s safety that he should be held accountable.
The Bucs are now going to play the Cubs in the playoffs without their All-Star caliber shortstop. Coghlan and the Cubs are the direct beneficiaries of Coghlan’s brutal, reckless (or possibly intentional) slide.
This should be easy to stop. I have no idea why MLB won’t make this kind of thing go away.
You are either letting your emotions color your opinion or you have seriously not watched very much baseball. This type of slide occurs all the time.
Coughlan was way closer to the bag than Kang was on the linked play, so basically the complaint would be what? The intensity of the slide? Exactly how high was his leg?
Under the current rules, Coughlan did exactly what he was supposed to do.
All that said, I’d be fine with the college rule. It isn’t discussed in the article, but I assume it has not been the cause of much controversy?
Wait, do you seriously think that Coghlan didn’t “willfully and deliberately interferes with a batted ball or a fielder in the act of fielding a batted ball, with the obvious intent to break up a double play”
I know can’t prove intention like you can prove that a eclidean triangle has 180 degeres of interior angles, but what more could you want for a case that’s open and shut on the video evidence. Umpires should call crap like that and the rules give them the power to do so.
Kang was not fielding a batted ball, he was receiving a throw. There is a difference.
So the ball being thrown to him had not been batted?
In any event, rule 7.0d(d) seems to cover the situation:
“It is interference by a batter or a runner when –… (d)Any batter or runner who has just been put out hinders or impedes any following play being made on a runner. Such runner shall be declared out for the interference of his teammate;”
So he interfered and the umpires didn’t call it, and they should have.
@Chris “Kang was not fielding a batted ball, he was receiving a throw. There is a difference.
That difference is of zero consequence for this rule. You and your 12 disciplines are silly for making a meaningless distinction.
Don’t cherry-pick the rulebook. Continue reading 7.09(d) and you see the MLB specifically comments on it: “If the batter or a runner continues to advance after he has been put out, he shall not by that act alone be considered as confusing, hindering or impeding the fielders.” Coglan continued to advance, and he slid in the basepath–both are legal actions. Coglan simply didn’t break rule 7.09(d) as the MLB interprets it.
TKDC: Yes. Kang went further out of his way to take out his target than Coghlan did.
Why was there a different outcome? Kang forgot to try and jump up to avoid Coghlan’s legs. Had he done that, we wouldn’t be talking about this play.
This type of slide does occur all of the time. In fact, if anything, most of these “takeout” slides are fairly tame by the standards of previous eras. Have you ever seen Hal McRae of the Royals (there may be some YouTube videos on his most vicious slides, IDK) go after an infielder? I have. He not only went out of the baseline to go after an infielder, but did it with such force as to make you wonder if he aspired to be a rugby player.
Every generation defines what is acceptable in any sport. And the rules are the rules—though the unwritten rules often supercede the written rules. Coghlan broke the rule—he’s not the first to do so—and he wasn’t punished for it. Right now, the men in black don’t appear to be any more inclined to toss out a baserunner for going out of the baseline to break up a double play than they were 40-50 years ago.
There will have to be direction from the top to change this, with a rule similar to the college rule mentioned in this article. Until then, we will continue to see these kind of plays occur. And injuries will happen from time to time.
Perhaps I’m a contrarian; perhaps I’m just an old fart. But to me, one of the most exciting plays in baseball is seeing a shortstop adroitly jump over a baserunner who is attempting to break up a double play and throwing the ball to first with enough zip to complete the double play.
Outlaw this type of slide and IMO you eliminate one of the most exciting and athletic–even balletic–plays in the game.
Kang didn’t jump up because he had just released the ball. What makes Coghlan’s “slide’ more dangerous is that he was still in the air when he hit Kang high, on the knee. Kang’s slide was wider, but had been on his butt for a while and swept the fielder’s ankles.
“Exactly what he was supposed to” – I think you meant “exactly at the outermost reach of what the rule is designed for”. He didn’t have to do it that way, right?
What he did is what is generally allowed by the umpires and is helpful to his team’s goal of winning the game. If it matters, it is also well within the unwritten rules of baseball, too (unlike the Holiday “slide”).
If he slides directly towards the base and he gets back to the dugout after the Pirates complete a double play, and he says “Well, I didn’t slide further out because there was a small chance I might injure the fielder,” I imagine the coaches and teammates would be quite befuddled.
That’s how it is and how it will be until the rule is changed.
“I have not seen a slide this vicious in years. This strikes me as something out of the Ty Cobb playbook, or from the 1890s Baltimore Orioles.”
Do you watch baseball? This slide wasn’t vicious at all. It was intentional, sure. But that is completely in the rules. He wasn’t trying to hurt Kang, he was trying to mess up the throw. This wasn’t the Holiday “slide,” it was just a a player trying to break up a double play.
If this actually was a vicious slide, we would actually not be able to talk about changing the rules. If it had been something outside the ordinary there would be more calls to punish the player. As mentioned above Coghlan did exactly what any onther major league player would have done. And that is probably why the rule needs to be changed. Players can still play the game hard and not slide at runners. This isn’t a contact sport and we should try to take those moments of contact out of the game.
I don’t watch baseball for the violence, we have other games for that, it is unnecessary.
I watch baseball constantly and rarely see slides like this and they’re all bad and unnecessary.
Actually, what’s in the rules is that the umpire can call a dead ball situation for this, calling the batter out for interefernce and the lead remaining batter-runner or batter out in the play. Umpires appear to be ignoring this rule, as it does not say they “may” call the batter out for this, but that they will call him out for that. However, they don’t. Somehow, because we can’t prove that the umpires know what the runners are doing, we pretend like the rules don’t tell the umpires what to do in a situation like this.
Also, I’ve seen a lot of take out slides that missed. Lots of players don’t appear to regard going this far from the base path as “what they’re supposed to do.”
I thought this was pretty brutal (Matt Holiday into Marco Scutaro):
http://m.mlb.com/news/article/39854216/
Oof, that was brutal
That’s not a slide. That’s unwarranted violence. I don’t know if there’s a non-combat sport in which that’s allowed.
There should at least be a requirement that a slide is a slide, that you hit the ground before reaching the base. Slide through it? Okay, I guess. But leaping into a player’s legs on the other side of the base? That’s not cool.
Another one from our friend Matt Holliday, into Starlin Castro in 2011. His left hand is several feet above the bag, and he sticks his spikes right in the air five feet to the right of the bag to trip Castro: http://m.mlb.com/chc/video/v17460093/chcstl-freese-ties-the-game-with-an-rbi-grounder/?c_id=chc
At the very least, the umpires should be calling a dead ball on these plays and extra baserunners (Pujols in the play above) should not get to run home while one of the defenders is writhing in pain, unable to move.
Not a vicious slide? His legs are flying away from the base, high in the air (where, FYI, there is no base), which caused the injury to Jang. And yeah, it did benefit his team greatly.
That’s why I’ve been for a rule for decades now, eye for an eye, if there is an injury like this from intentional (and we can have a panel decide on that) actions like this, the other team loses a player for the same period of time that the injured player is out for that season.
I watch a lot of baseball. It is not vicious compared to past plays but that’s like saying that anything under Ty Cobb’s intentional spiking is not vicious, the point is not that there hasn’t been more vicious slides, the point is that this slide, viewed solely as a play, was vicious and intentional.
If it was not intentional, then why was he sliding away from the base? Why was his leg high in the air? And he didn’t even look like he could even touch the base with his outreached arm.
Saying that it’s legal with the current rules is a cop out. It was legal within the rules when Cobb was spiking players, that didn’t make it right. That’s why they changed the rules.
Nah, the slide yesterday wasn’t all that vicious. Here is an example of a vicious slide: http://m.mlb.com/video/?content_id=4715163
So, all these examples of defense less middle infielders getting absolutely clobbered and some still wonder why we’re asking for changes?
“I have not seen a slide this vicious in years.”
Then you simply don’t watch much baseball. There are many dozen slides exactly like this if not more egregious (kang himself went further out of his way to take out a fielder earlier this year https://twitter.com/MyKBO/status/644726472209362944).
seems like a no brainer. And the fact that Belte’s leg was up on a direct slide has no bearing on whether Coghlan’s should have been. It’s hard to put too much on a single slow mo replay, but if you did give it the full Zapruder treatment you might say Coghlan actually moved his leg in an attempt to make as much contact with Kang as possible. It would definitely be a red card if they were playing soccer.
The issue with Coghlan’s slide yesterday is that it was too late. He hit Kang’s knee and the ground the same time. On the Beltre slide he’d been down for a few feet but left his leg up. Coghlan’s slide was really more like an illegal slide tackle in soccer.
True, but Coghlan and Beltre’s knees hit the ground at nearly the same place (in distance from first to second, not home plate to outfield). The difference was Kang’s positioning
and Coghlan’s positioning, given that he was way outside the base path
no he was in the base line
*way to the right of where Beltre was
Kang was much further off the bag, Beltre slid right into the bag, get your eyes checked. Both were high slides right at the knee.
Coghlan’s slide was not late. It only appears that way, because Kang came across and IN FRONT OF the bag in order to make the throw. He did nothing to protect himself in this situation, and actually had a collision on the play before with Schwarber as well. His throw needs to be made in the air as a matter of protecting himself.
I understand that much of the debate is “why should he have to protect himself?” but just because some people disagree with the spirit and interpretation of the rules, doesn’t mean that he shouldn’t have been worried about self-preservation.
When I first heard about the injury I thought it was just an unfortunate play. After watching the replays, to me it was a blatantly dirty slide. Coghlan went way outside the base line and lifted his right leg to make contact with Kang’s leg.
I’m unable to register on FanGraphs, it gives an error but doesn’t say what the error is. Can someone please respond to my customer support contact?
Maybe teams should go back to teaching their middle infielders the old school way. Come across the bag and throw sidearm to get those runners down. You hit one runner right between the eyes and those takeout slides will stop. Heck, you just get the *reputation* that you always throw sidearm and low and those takeout slides will stop.
This is what we were taught in high school where I played second base, albeit very poorly and usually only in blowouts. If the runner doesn’t want to get down, give him a reason to get down. I have a few scars on my shins and calves from being cleated, so it made sense when I was 16, now it kinda makes me a little sick that I would do that and that an adult would teach me to do it.
I would be in favor of the NCAA rule.
That was a cheap, dirty slide. When do Chicago and Pittsburgh play again? I bet Coghlan takes one in the back.
The 25th through 27th at Wrigley Field, almost certainly followed by the Wild Card game on October 7th.
This has the potential to become truly ugly over the next three weeks. Intense rivalries are often good for baseball, but my spider sense* tells me this is going to become a black eye for the sport, worse than Kang’s injury is already.
* 1899 Cleveland Spiders sense, to be precise. It alerts me when something in baseball is liable to become a disaster.
And now we also have the Holliday/Rizzo beanings…man, the Cubs aren’t making any friends.
The Holliday “beaning” was an 85 mph pitch that clearly got away from Haren, in a 1-run game.
And then the Cubs’ asshole of a manager chose to go all macho-revenge about it, and compare a ball that didn’t even hit Rizzo to one that hit Holliday in the head. I’m sure 85mph fastballs don’t hurt.
I think it might be helpful to make the rule more explicit about what the umpire can interpret as intending to break up the play. In particular, in two of the videos above, the player putting out the runner is not on the bag. Kang took a large step away from the bag after putting Coghlan out and still got hit and hurt. That’s problematic. In the Beltre slide, it’s would almost have been impossible for him to have completely avoided a collision, regardless of his intention because the Angel (can’t tell who) is still on second base.
This is probably imperfect, but something like this is the start of a good rule:
“If in a force double play situation, after putting a base runner out in a force play, a fielder moves out of the line of the base path, a runner who collides with him shall be judged to willfully and deliberately have interfered to break up a double play, in the manner described in rule 7.09(f). Contact not forceful enough to interfere with the player’s handling of the play shall not be considered a collision under these rules.”
Obviously, this can’t cover every case, but it offers fielders a measure of protection and describes a (fairly) objective measure of the circumstance in which the intent should be judged real.
Yup. Honestly the problem I have with it and that makes it more on the dirty side is that his feet aren’t directed at the bag at all. Even if he’s out of the basepath for whatever reason he should be sliding towards the bag, here he’s clearly sliding towards the fielder who has already made an effort to leave him a sliding lane directly to the base. I have no problem with a runner coming into the base and hitting a player who is standing on it, no problem with the player having to jump, but let’s suppose Kang had jumped, would we accept a “slide” that was really just a kung fu flying side kick? Probably not. Kang made an effort to get out of the way, if this isn’t illegal now, the rule should be rewritten to make it illegal. And possibly even to result in an ejection. There’s no excuse for deliberately going after the fielder who has gotten out of your path to the base.
I’d love to know where they have takeout for slide rules. Last time I broke one, I had to dine in to get a replacement.
You have to jump to avoid a sliding player. Kind of been that way for 100 plus years.
First, no one has ever been required to jump to avoid the player. There have been more shortstops than not who were not capable of doing that. You would never have seen an aging Cal Ripken or Derek Jeter attempt that, for instance. Second, Kang sidestepped the bag to avoid Coghlan rather than jumping (which he probably can’t do anyway). That should be enough.
Can you imagine Ozzie Smith staying stationary like that? You either have enough time to throw and then jump, or you jump and throw, or you just avoid and don’t make the throw. That’s kind of the range of Kang’s options there to avoid the slide. In this instance, it looks like it was either avoid and make no throw, or do what he did.
Usually the threat of takeout slides alters middle infielder’s behaviors without anyone getting hurt. I guess middle infielders unfortunately need a reminder that they can’t just stand there. Unless the rules change of course
Which is the crux of the problem, right? We’re talking about a play where what’s at stake is, what, a 10-25% lower chance of recording the second out on a DP? And we’re fine with that cost/benefit context allowing behavior that could result in serious injury if the fielder doesn’t quickly and deftly take preventative measures?
A catcher collision at home plate always has an actual run at stake. We’re all fine with changing a few rules on those for player safety, even though the cost/benefit is fundamentally higher. So let’s just consider what we’re really talking about and be as rational and smart in this situation as well, no?
that argument can cut the other way. Catchers will block the plate and collisions will occur because a run is directly at stake. At second base, the middle infielder doesn’t need to directly prevent that run (at first base).
The middle infielder’s first thought should be avoiding the slide.
There’s a reason the Ozzie gif is in the article. He’s one of the few shortstops who could jump like that. Frankly I was presuming that the author included that gif just to eliminate any silly discussion of how a shortstop should be able to just avoid the baserunner, when really it take incredible athleticism to do that.
Yep. Kang had the play in front of him. Why didn’t he jump? It’s not like the Holliday slide where the infielder has no chance to avoid the incoming baserunner—Kang wasn’t blind-sided.
The timing of the throw, stepping on the bag and releasing the ball to get the second out don’t always align to even make a jump possible. In the Kendrick GIF, you can see him almost decide not to jump and just wear it. Who knows why. Maybe he figured Beltre wasn’t going to hurt him and he didn’t need to, maybe that’s not what he was thinking at all. Also, I’m not sure why jumping is being thought of as safe. You might not tear an ACL, but if you come down awkwardly after a collision, a torn rotator cuff maybe?
Or you jump your knee right in their jaw, that will stop people trying takeout slides getting flattened by a flying knee.
The leg that go hit was about five feet from the base path. Kang tags the base, steps well out of the base path and cocks to throw when he gets hit. If you’re standing on the base, fine, you have to jump, but when you’ve already gotten well out of the path, you shouldn’t have throw in the air instead of planting. After, trying to make a player do that would be a good example of deliberately attempting to interfere to break up a double play.
the runner is allowed to slide if he can still reach the base. Middle infielders know this.
The runner can’t simply stop his slide, especially during this play
Do you honestly think Coughlin was sliding for the base?
Your answer to this question is relevant to my deciding whether or not to take your opinion seriously.
Read again, Coghlan was obviously not sliding for the base, but he was about within arm’s reach of the bag.
That is considered legal at this time.
Intent does not play a role.
It’s interference:
7.09 It is interference by a batter or a runner when —
(d) Any batter or runner who has just been put out hinders or impedes any following play being made on a runner. Such runner shall be declared out for the interference of his teammate;
Coghlan was out and deliberately collided with Kang. That’s not arguable. 7.09d says if you hinder a player making a play after being put out, it’s interference. All we really need a clarificaiton distinguishing actions that are the result of the players choices before being put out and choices that obviously occur after that fact (such as slidding in a manner that causes him to collide with a play far outside the basepath.)
Agreed. Kang made the play at 2B, and he got several feet away from the bag. Coghlan’s slide was so far off the base line that it was absurd.
If Coghlan is allowed to do this, why not just change the rule to allow runners to carry their bats with them and hit the fielders like pinatas?
Nobody can read Coghlan’s mind. But he and his team will be facing the Bucs in the playoffs in a couple of weeks, and now the Bucs will have a replacement level shortstop instead of an All Star caliber one. This play was fucking preposterous. The only thing more preposterous would be failing to adequately punish Coghlan and the Cubs.
MLB should start by forcing an All Star caliber Cub to sit out any playoff games against the Pirates.
Carrying the bat with you? I’m amazed A-Rod hasn’t tried that.
I think if you look at it in context, what we’re talking about with plays like this is a baserunner who has necessarily already been forced out at second base blatantly attempting to interfere with the ongoing play.
Player safety is one thing, and I agree that if you emphasize that aim, you should probably change the rule to limit unnecessary contact…but what about interference? The NCAA explicitly states the rule is for both safety and interference.
Essentially, an effort to play “good, hard baseball” as of right now dictates that once you’ve been forced out at 2B, you are compelled to become an agent of chaos on the basepaths. That seems pretty incongruous with a sport that often rules a runner out for running too close to the in-play side of the baseline on a bunt for “interference” and has any number of other rules protecting fielder’s safety and/or ability to make plays without interference from a runner or batter. Why all the sudden in this situation is the standard that the runner only be able to possibly reach the base at the end of his slide?
The execution of the breakup slide can vary from one showing intent just to make yourself an obstacle that the fielder has to move over or around to one that allows outright malicious behavior not condoned in any other part of the game. We don’t know what Coghlan wanted to do, but isn’t it possibly that he wanted to smash into Kang when he saw the opportunity to do so? If that was his aim, doesn’t the rule allow him the plausible deniability that he was just making a good, hard baseball play?
The solution is simple: allow the fielder at 2B to kick the living crap out of the sliding player’s head. If the runner is allowed to use the threat of physical harm to prevent a good throw, then there is no reason why the fielder should not be allowed the same to ensure a good throw.
Or just ban take out slides.
This is kind of a recipe for escalation rather than solution.
Of course, I don’t think its meant as a realistic solution, just an attempt to point out how dumb the current rule is.
or just allow take out slides within touching distance of the base. Players need to operate under the rules and alter their behavior. Part of being an eite middle infielder is making these double play turns.
That said, I wouldn’t be against a rule change, but I don’t think Coghlan did anything wrong under the current rules.
Basically you should never slide into the fielder unless they are directly on the bag. That should be the rule.
that’s not a very clear definition, “directly on the bag”, especially when the base line between first and second is not always the same
It does not need to be perfectly clear in this case… Coughlan was far outside the base line under any reasonable definition.
Coughlan’s slide was absurd. Why not let Coghlan get up from his slide and body slam Kang just to make sure he misses the playoffs?
There is no way you watch baseball regularly. Coghlan’s slide was far from absurd it was routine. The outcome was unfortunate to say the least and I think more should e done to eliminate take out slides but there was nothing out of the ordinary here.
It’s routine to take out a fielder who’s like five feet away from the sliding line of an incoming runner? Bullshit.
If players are allowed to slide-tackle the second baseman to make him drop the ball, then they should also be allowed to plow over the first baseman. I don’t see any difference between this play and Alex Rodriguez slapping the ball out of the glove.
I had this thought as well, though not specifically about A-rod.
Some lower levels and every rec league require sliding for the base with automatic ejection if you don’t, and it’s just not a problem enforcing it. But moronic mlb keeps ancient moronic rules whose only purpose is to incentivize that kind of dangerous collision, and Kang is yet another victim. If you can even call him a victim, because this is *exactly* what mlb was asking to have happen by keeping those idiot rules on the books. Change here was obvious to almost everybody except mlb long ago, and maybe they’ll finally get their heads out of their asses on the issue before any more knees get shredded.
I’m unable to register on FanGraphs, it gives an error but doesn’t say what the error is. Can someone please respond to my customer support contact?
Dirty play. Kang had tagged and gotten 4 feet clear. I feel bad for the Pirates and their fans. Great rookie year for kang, terrible they lose him in the playoffs bs Coghlan plants his shin in Kangs 4 plus feet away long after he was out. As a HS and Legion player, CC if not thrown put immediately would be drilled or fight ensued. Clearly dirty ImO
Well, he plays in the majors, so a different set of rules apply.
If you hate coughlans slide, hate kangs slide too. No difference outside of the twin infielder was able to skip around Kang
What’s the first lesson they teach kids in kindergarten? Two wrongs don’t make a right. Just because Kang also had a terrible slide that put another player at risk doesn’t mean that Coghlan needed to do it, too.
just because the twin infeilder avoided injury doesnt mean he wasnt at risk. lets not be shortsighted.
Of course he was at risk. Kang was wrong here. I’m not defending him. I’m saying it’s a dangerous, unnecessary play that has less justification behind it than running over the catcher. It’s bush league, and it’s only our American mentality that normalizes this behavior. There is no excuse, none whatsoever, to justify sliding like that. Coaches that teach this garbage ought to be ashamed of themselves.
Kang being on the ground at the time of his slide is a big difference between the plays. Coghlan hit him in mid-air.
due to a late throw.
This is huge point. Coghlan basically had his entire momentum crash into Kang’s panted leg. The videos from the sides show him slide in time to have the mass of his body actually hitting dirt only about a foot, maybe 2, from the bag, as far as I can tell. And he clearly sticks his leg out at the last moment to make maximum contact.
This was a terribly dirty slide. There are at least five things to consider on this play.
1. Coghlan slid WAY out of the base path, not even in the same ZIP code as second base
2. He went in with his leg up
3. He went in knee-on-knee
4. He went in right at Kang’s plant leg
5. Kyle Schwarber did the EXACT same thing three pitches prior, but Kang got out of the way of that one
I don’t think Coghlan intentionally tried to hurt him, but I do think he intentionally did something that exponentially raised the risk of injury to a fellow player. The pathetic thing is that we call this “hardnosed baseball” and adults actually teach this garbage to children. It’s disgraceful. Again, I don’t think Coghlan TRIED to injure him in the same way that someone who texts and drives isn’t TRYING to cause an accident. Regardless of what one’s intention is, the action the person is engaging in is dangerous. And, make no mistake about it, in this case it was absolutely unnecessary.
From where I’m sitting, the only thing more disgraceful than this play is the fact that so many people are going to such great lengths to justify it on the basis of it being “good” and “hardnosed” and “tradition” and that we’ve done it that way for 100 years. Coghlan went right at his plant knee. In the NFL, that’s a 15 yard penalty and possible ejection. In the NHL it’s a penalty (not sure what as I’m not much of an NHL fan, but I think it’s a 10 minute game misconduct). As someone else above said, in soccer that’s at least a yellow card, probably a red card.
And the, today, Joe Maddon has the audacity to get upset at the Cardinals for throwing at Anthony Rizzo. Joe Maddon can take his sanctimonious it and stick it where the sun don’t shine.
Yes, I’m riled up about this play.
Maddon also made a joke about Kang’s injury being planar fasciitis. That’s pretty bad to me.
The actual injury, if you’re curious, is torn MCL, torn meniscus, and fractured tibial plateau. That’s brutal. I don’t even like when people get called “soft” or “injury prone,” so making jokes about other players’ [extremely painful] misfortunes is a non-starter for me.
Classless.
he didnt go in with he leg up, the throw to 2nd was late.. coughlan was jumping into his slide.. he was getting his legs in postion to slide for the same spot kang was stepping into his throw. both legs are moving for the same spot at practically the same time. coghlan has no idea how he is gonna come off the bag. its a bang bang play.. so trying to get his leg in position to slide his foot gets hung up on kangs leg. again unfortunate – but coghlans leg only looks high cuz it gets caught up on Kang leg as he is stepping into coghlan. i dont think coghlan can know kang is gonna step towards him and react as he is going into his slide
No. Not even close. First, the throw wasn’t late. Coghlan was out by a country mile, as Kang had no need to go the “neighborhood play,” and was standing four feet wide of second base when Coghlan did this crap. Second, his leg is a good foot and a half off the ground. I don’t know how you define “up,” but in my dictionary, that’s “up.”
No, it only comes up that high after his foot bounces off Kang’s foot.
Sweetbutter, you say it all. Change the rule, change the rule, change the rule. Then, players like Coghlan cannot and managers like Maddon cannot fall back on the excuse of plays like this being part of the game and its history.
I have a few major problems with takeout slides in general. The obvious one is that they’re dangerous, and unnecessarily dangerous, but that’s just added motivation for their removal. They should be removed in general because they are inconsistent with everything else in baseball in two major ways.
1. Under no other circumstance can a baserunner who has already been put out have an affect on the play. This is an exception to the rule that a put-out baserunner is to get out of the way and allow the rest of the play to occur without his influence.
2. There is no other situation or location on the field where a baserunner may prevent a fielder from completing a defensive play by contacting him. Making a throw is a baseball play. You can’t run into a shortstop while he’s trying to make a throw after fielding a batted ball, nor a first baseman who is trying to catch a throw and record a put-out, why should you be able to contact a middle infielder making the turn?
On the danger side, there is always a danger when two players contact each other, but here, that contact is at the most vulnerable part of the fielder’s body while the fielder is in one of his two most vulnerable positions. When catching a ball, a fielder is focused entirely on the ball, and is thus unable to focus on a runner, making him vulnerable (plus getting hit in the face with a ball is not good, and being contacted would yield that result sometimes), and that’s obvious. When throwing the ball, the fielder’s front leg is planted in the ground and the weight is on it. Being contacted there allows very little give and yields precisely the sorts of injuries as the ones Kang sustained. If a fielder jumps and is still contacted, he may also flip forward and sustain a head and/or neck injury. Hitting players whose feet are not on the ground is even illegal in rugby for that reason.
It’s pointlessly really dangerous, difficult to fully avoid all danger, and it’s inconsistent with other rules in baseball. Why is it allowed?
Effect, not affect. Should have proofread.
Balls.
pretty damned lame.
I can’t believe there even needs to be a discussion on this. This slide is no different than hundreds of other slides just like it every season in baseball. Unfortunately, a very good rookie player was injured as a result. That doesn’t change the fact that it is a normal and certainly not dirty play.
To suggest it was dirty is just foolish. Coghlan had left his feet before Kang even had the ball and unfortunately it was a slow hit ball, Kang had to wait on the throw and he had no momentum to clear the bag and stepped right into the slide. If he side steps the slide, no one gives the play a second thought. It was a combination of things that ended up leading to an unfortunate injury.
I would be interested to hear from some middle infielders on this. If MLB were to put in a rule mandating all slides at 2B be directly at the bag, the neighborhood play would be removed. I think the neighborhood play does more for middle infield safety (and getting outs) than a slide rule would. Not sure they’d trade one for the other, especially when injuries from plays at 2B are so rare.
No need to make a big deal out of an unfortunate accident. That already happened once and has turned every play at the plate into a clusterf— with a two minute long replay review to figure out where the catcher was standing.
It also needs to be noted that Chris Coghlan was not being held on at first base because the bases were loaded. He started the play slightly behind the bag, rather than in a straight line from 1st to 2nd because it creates an easier angle to go 1st to 3rd. Because of that, the base line created by his starting point took him to the outfield side of the bag.
Again, just one thing in a series of unfortunate coincidences that led to a bad outcome. It sucks and is a byproduct of the archaic “play the right way” attitude that still exists but we don’t need to vilify a guy for it and we certainly don’t need an entire country (and quite a few Pirates fans) making death threats to a player. It ain’t that serious folks, it’s just baseball.
It’s a discussion we need to have because this type of play is common, accepted, and apparently legal. Those are problems. This type of play shouldn’t be common. It doesn’t need to be common. Removing it wouldn’t affect the actual baseball game. And I’m not speculating; this has been removed in various other leagues with no notable change in the game save for it being safer as a result.
So it’s an unnecessary risk. Why does it exist if it’s both unnecessary and dangerous? There is so little to gain from these slides and so much to lose. It’s just poor risk management.
The play is nothing more than an illustration of the risks of these slides; a datum among data. This shouldn’t be the tipping point, because it already should have tipped a long time ago. But if it starts up the conversation again, good.
I agree with your first sentence. There shouldn’t need to be a discussion on this. It should have already been removed.
I don’t disagree, but the comments section took a turn from a potential slide rule to was the play dirty/malicious/intentional, which was the point of my post. Nothing about the play was dirty, malicious or intentional and the fact that people actually believe it was is fascinating to me because it happens daily. Had Kang avoided the slide, no one even gives a second look to that play. It doesn’t even get a replay on the broadcast. Unfortunately that wasn’t the case.
As for the need for a rule, I can’t argue with that at all. However, IF a slide rule mandating runners slide directly to the base is created, it would be at the sacrifice of the neighborhood play. As someone who played a lot of shortstop, I would personally rather have the flexibility and safety created by the neighborhood play. With the neighborhood play I have much more control over my own body position and in turn my own safety, regardless of where a runner is coming from. Taking that away is a far bigger threat to middle infield safety than any slide rule could prevent.
Again, unfortunate series of events came together and led to a bad injury but hastily reacting to it with rules and personal accusations is a mistake. The “Buster Posey” rule has been an unmitigated disaster since it began, made worse by replay. No one can even define the rule and it just leads to confusion and awkward plays at the plate, which are far more likely to cause injury than a collision.
The Buster Posey rule is only a disaster because the umpires have been terrible at enforcing what is actually pretty clear language, probably from misguided sense of tradition.
And the neighborhood play is also a stupid rule. It isn’t necessary if runners can’t hunt you down because you won’t have to get that far away from the bag. Again, other leagues have been a good example of how well this works.
When we are in a century that preaches “player safety”, this seems like a pretty no brainer for a rule change. I don’t think CC’s slide was malicious, but it was absolutely intentional, and I think those two ideas are different. He is also not close to the bag, and if you argue he is, I can set an eye appointment for you later. IMO sliding with your feet perpendicular to the bag after you have been out by about 20 feet is far from sliding in the direction for the bag. It was blatant interference, and had Kang not successfully turned the DP, I think the Pirates would have had an argument for interference and had the out at First recorded due to the interference. For the guys saying “Kang should jump”… Kang is getting paid to throw runners out, not to play hopscotch over aimless runners on the basepaths. The unfortunate part of the injury is he plants his foot right before contact, which means he was in the act of making the throw and planting his foot and changing direction in .003 seconds is not humanly possible
It was a hard aggressive play, and we love those in baseball, but when teams are investing millions of dollars / year into these players, there needs to be a greater protection. Imagine a guy of Trout’s caliber being involved in a play like this in a few years when the Angels are paying him $30M+ a year… we will all be screaming bloody murder if he gets hurt. It’s time the MLB gets a bit smarter about player safety and the investment they have into these players. Change the rule to what the NCAA has it, make it simple and smart, and make it happen this year before someone with a higher profile name gets abused on a play like this. Just because it has happened in the past doesn’t mean it is deemed right and appropriate for the present and future of the game
“For the guys saying “Kang should jump”… Kang is getting paid to throw runners out, not to play hopscotch over aimless runners on the basepaths.”
Isn’t there a flip side to this though? Chris Coghlan is getting paid to help his team score runs, which breaking up a double play certainly would have helped do as the Cubs would have ended up with a run in and a runner on 3rd and 1 out had he been successful.
It was just a situation of two players with different jobs ending up in bad positions because of a number of different variables. Slow hit grounder to the 2B’s left, even slower turn and throw by Walker, Kang was in a bad position to receive the throw stretching like a 1B (lack of agility/poor footwork at SS was the big knock on him out of KBO), Coghlan was coming from an awkward angle because he wasn’t being held on at 1B and started just behind the bag rather than in line with it, Coghlan had his legs out and unfortunately Kang’s leg replanted right as Coghlan made contact.
There was certainly nothing malicious, Coghlan had left his feet before Kang had even picked up his left leg and turned to replant and throw. Coghlan had no way of knowing that would happen, especially just unfortunate coincidences piling together and leading to a serious injury.
We already had MLB overreact to a star caliber franchise player being injured via collision and the home plate collision rule has been absolutely atrocious since it began. No one can even define what blocking the plate is because it is so haphazardly enforced. Hastily jumping in with a second base collision rule will only lead to more confusion and possibly game and season altering plays, not to mention do very little to prevent injuries around 2B.
Kang should have jumped like most shortstops would in that situation. Furthermore, no one is noting how bad Neil Walker’s throws are to second base. That has a big part to do with this as well. Coglhan’s slide was not dirty. It was hard but not with the intention to hurt. Better shortstops would have avoided the slide by jumping.
They only jump if they are on or behind the bag and can’t get away from the bag, Kang was well off the bag
On Kangs slide he slid directly into the bag feet low, and then kind of rolled over perhaps to avoid the leaping SS who may have spiked his face if he did not. I don’t think he was as far off the bag at the end as Coghlan.
This is not the first time for Coghlan, he ended Iwamuras career on a similar play. They teach you to go for the planted knee to injure in football, so I expect he played some football. Can’t get away with that stuff with a QB now.
Middle IF’ers are very vulnerable since they are in the act of throwing, like a QB, and unlike catchers who are also well equipped with padding. Thats why there is a neighborhood rule. But if runners chase him off the bag and kick at their knees….
Any reasonable person can see that the Coghlan slide should not be allowed.
My take, as a fan of an AL team with no dog in this race, is that Coghlan’s slide was within the bounds of accepted baseball practice. He was still close enough to the bag to be able to reach it.
Still, I think what the article is saying is that accepted baseball practice should be changed to avoid the chance for injuries like this. I would agree. Jonathan Schoop missed much of the year – and it could have been worse – due to a takeout slide in Boston early in the season, and that definitely had a bad effect on the Orioles’ season. It happens too much to middle infielders.
I know it is common practice to be reactionary but I’m not sure people are fully thinking through a potential direct slide rule. If you mandate all runners slide directly to the bag, you’re putting players on a collision course at a fixed point in space where it is far more likely for injury to occur. Having that rule at the high school and college level is one thing, having it in MLB where players are significantly larger and faster is entirely different.
Mandating every runner go straight into the bag is going to create far more opportunities for contact than we have now. 99.9% of runners veer off or initiate very light nuisance contact to disrupt a play, that the .1% that happened today resulted in a devastating injury should not lead to drastic changes. Would the rule have helped Kang? Yes. But it would also put many other middle infielders at risk on different types of plays. What happened in the Beltre gif and what happened with Brett Lawrie earlier in the year would only happen more often because you have more and more runners sliding hard directly into the bag and putting two players on a collision course at a single point rather than giving the runner the option to veer off course in their slide.
I’m all for protecting players but mandating direct slides is not the way to do it. You’re going to get more players hurt. Instead, just make Rule 6.04/5 a point of emphasis and treat it just like an intentionally hit batter if it happens. Rule both the runner and batter out, eject the runner, eject the manager, suspend the runner for 5 games (10 if the opposing player is injured). Anything more is just going to create far more problems than it solves.
I was at this game and from the stands I was able to see the intent was to break the play up. The baserunner lower half went to the right. That and add in the variables Kang was about a foot plus off the bad and secondly Coghlans made what was obviously a late decission to break up the play. Just equaled disaster for Kang and my Pirates. I do not believe that there was any intent other than to break up the double play, however in “real time,” from the crowd, Coghlan left the base line. Umpires botched it but not calling up the rule and I do feel for his reckless actions, Coghlan, should have been sent to the showers.
Why isn’t Coghlan wearing a ball in his ear? Slide was legal, but a tad late and he came in higher than necessary. Double play still turned but player lost for the season.Next Cub series with Cards, Cub pitcher Haren beans Holliday and Maddon gets pissed when Cards retaliate by hitting Rizzo who crowds plate anyway. Disappointed that Hurdle did not retaliate as Cards did.
A direct slide rule would be a great idea, yes, but I’m only seeing a couple mentions of the fact that Coghlan was already out and had no business, as someone who has been officially removed from the play, doing anything that affected the play. This rule was quoted elsewhere, above, but bears repeating
7.0 It is interference by a batter or a runner when… (d)Any batter or runner who has just been put out hinders or impedes any following play being made on a runner. Such runner shall be declared out for the interference of his teammate
If Coghlan were completing a slide that he began when he wasn’t yet out – if it were a bang-bang play – that would be one thing. But Coghlan was out before he even began the slide. He had no business sliding, at all, much less aiming for Kang’s legs.
Accident. Injuries happen. Major League sports have danger in them. (Or used to.) We should be asking the PLAYERS what they think about the level of danger in their game, not the fans. It seems that every time an incident like this happens, all the fans are upset and the players understand that sports involve adrenaline, physical prowess, and competition. This also brings danger.
I’ll preface this by saying that I am a Cardinals fan and Matt Holliday is one of the worst and most well-known “Takeout Slide Artists”.
These slides should be done away with. Players should be required to slide “feet/hands directly to the bag” … unless, “avoiding a tag”.
The “takeout slide” is more risk than reward, and quite frankly, encourages more “players policing themselves”.
Before we start talking the machismo of baseball and how it would be making it sissified … lets also recall other things that made “baseball for sissies”: [1] not allowing players to slide “spikes high” or [2] try and kick the ball out the mitt, [3] batters wearing hard helmets, [4] reducing the brushback and beanbrawls, etc.
The take out slide has always been pretty ridiculous. The most ridiculous part is that the players sliding is already out when he slides (and usually out by a mile). I have no idea why a player that is out is allowed to try and interfere with the play.
If I hit an infield pop up with a man on third then rounded first and crushed the infielder who caught it so the guy on 3rd base can tag up and go home, not only would the play not stand but I would probably be suspended and chastised by everyone imaginable. But its essentially the same logic behind the take out slide.
Collisions are and will always be part of the equation in baseball games. There is no way to avoid all of them. However, there are collisions which have no part of any good, clean baseball game. This is one of them.
Not a vicious slide? His legs are flying away from the base, high in the air (where, FYI, there is no base), which caused the injury to Jang. I think umpires should be allowed to throw out players for such egregious running, and that the league should be allowed to suspend such players.
If it was not intentional, then why was he sliding away from the base? He already knew he was out, the rules specifically says that once out, he is not to interfere with the play, so he was clearly intentionally doing that. Plus, why was his leg high in the air if he weren’t trying to injure the other player? Someone notes the similarity with drunk drivers, well, we hold drunk drivers accountable for the accidents that they cause and could cause. And he didn’t even look like he could even touch the base with his outreached arm.
Saying that it’s legal with the current rules is a cop out. It was legal within the rules when Cobb was spiking players, that didn’t make it right. That’s why they changed the rules.
I hate that the homeplate rule is called the Posey Rule by newbies. How about Carlos Santana the year before, I felt just as bad about his injury as well, because I’m a baseball fan and it does our game no good, especially when football and basketball is grabbing most of the young fans away, baseball is graying sports fan base, that’s not going to be good for our game.
Or how about the Ray Fosse rule? This stuff has been happening forever in our game, our great young catchers who look like they have a lot of potential, get run over and severely injured. If Trout had gotten injured here (lucky for him he’s in the OF), there would be no question about a rule change.
Or how about Bryce Harper? He was a catcher once, what if he was run over by a football style hit (commentator from the NFL said that the hit on Posey is outlawed by the NFL, showing how vicious that hit was, and the player would have been suspended for such a hit) and was no longer the same.
And now Jang. Or Holliday and Scutaro. Or the history of all these stupid slides (and yes, Jang did one too, don’t make it right). I don’t think it’s fair to put up Ozzie Smith as an example of escaping danger, he was a unique and great player, he could do things that other can’t (like him doing a standing head flip). And sometimes fielders are caught off position, while the runner is the opposing team, they are all part of the same players union, they should be for longer healthier careers for their players.
It’s ridiculous saying that Coughlan was off first and thus was running in that lane. Even little kids know that a straight line to the base is the shortest path to the base, else he’s being stupid and adding time to get to 2B. He was clearly trying to slide into the fielder.
I agree that you can’t really legislate that runners has to slide into second. I also don’t want more runners sliding in headfirst, I’ve seen so many injuries happen, jammed fingers and such. But like I first stated, you can’t avoid collisions always.
What you can avoid are runners who slide wildly off to the side where there is no base but is a fielder. Plays like that should be easy to outlaw and punish because they are so egregious.
Just because players have been playing like this does not mean that they should, else we should return to the lousy mitts they all started playing with over 100 years ago and allow players to spike each other with their sharpened spikes intended to draw blood. Or how about getting rid of the live ball and return to the dead ball era. There were a lot of people who didn’t like losing that tradition of the deadball era, where you earn your runs, not get them with home runs so often. Another feature of the deadball era is that the crowds are expected to return the foul ball (and HR) back because the teams need it to continue playing, think that will go over well with the fans today.
Or if you want to go there, non-white players wasn’t allowed to play until Jackie Robinson. (FYI, I’m non-white)
So just because there was a tradition of “the way the game was played” does not mean that it was the right thing to do. Do the right thing, put in simple rules (and these rules exist already in amateur leagues already, so it’s not like they haven’t played under these rules before) to protect the players. Unless you think that losing All-Star caliber players from the league is the right way to keep current fans and to gain more fans.
No discussion of plays at 2B can be complete without reference to Bill Madlock taking out Tony Fernandez in 1987.
See the link. I don’t know how to paste a picture oe gif.
http://www.bluejayhunter.com/2011/05/acid-flashback-friday-bill-madlock.html
Wow – that one is on a whole different level. I’m not sure that would be a legal tackle in the NFL since it might be called for targeting the knees.
Although the slide itself wasn’t dirty, it was reckless on Coughlan’s part. Part of me wants to place part of the blame on Jung Ho as well. He’s probably not used to having base runners take him out as in the KBO this is not an acceptable play. Also Jung Ho needs to realize that he needs to jump out of the way and avoid Coughlan’s hit.
It was bad just like drunk driving, even when they don’t kill anyone or damage anything, is bad. He wasn’t sliding to avoid the tag – heck, he was already out – and the base was nowhere near his feet, there was no reason other than to take out the fielder.
And when someone tries a crazy “out there” slide like that, they risk harm to both the fielder and themselves, but more to the fielder, since they can prepare themselves, much like the drunk is more of a danger to other things than to themselves. Punishing the drunks don’t solve the problem, but at least we keep them off the road for a while.
And Jung is aware of take out slides because one of the big issues for commenters above is that Jung HIMSELF did a takeout slide earlier in the season. (again, two wrongs do not make a right)
If you look carefully at the slo-mo gif, he had just got the ball and was setting himself in order to make the throw. He might have also thought that being out that far protected him, but the former Marlin (same team that busted Buster’s leg…) went as far out as he could with his body to reach him.
Coughlan’s feet were nowhere near the base and he wasn’t trying to avoid a tag, there was no good solid baseball reason for him to be sliding out that far off the bag other than to break up the double play.
It is just stupid to put our best players out there at the mercy of random acts of violence, we lose our best players that way, and what does the game gain from allowing these stupid takeout slides? Collisions can’t be avoided, as slides at the base happens all the time, but slides like these where he’s not sliding into anything other than the fielder can be.