Chris Sale’s Abridged Cy Young Case
When Chris Sale started for the American League in the 2018 All-Star Game, he was in the midst not only of a fabulous season that was worthy of the honor, but quite probably the best stretch produced by any starter this year. A year after he became the first AL pitcher to notch 300 strikeouts in a season since the turn of the millennium, it appeared that the 29-year-old lefty, an All-Star and Cy Young vote recipient every year since 2012, might finally take home the hardware that had eluded him in the previous six seasons. Alas, shoulder inflammation sent Sale to the disabled list on July 31 and has limited him to just one start since. While he still leads the league in a host of key categories, it seems entirely possible that his missed time could cost him the award he deserves.
Sale missed two starts in his first stint on the DL. Upon returning, he threw five innings of one-hit shutout ball against the Orioles, striking out 12 — his 11th double-digit game of the year — despite throwing just 68 pitches, 19 fewer than any of his other outings this season. Though he has since said that his shoulder feels “like Paul Bunyan’s ox” and recently declared, “There was never any major issue with my shoulder… This wasn’t something that happened on a single pitch or a mechanical issue or anything,” he returned to the DL after that start. He has been throwing bullpen sessions lately, and while the Red Sox have not announced when he will make his next start, manager Alex Cora said this past weekend that “he might become an ‘opener’ for one or two starts” during the team’s September 7-16 homestand. “We’re not worried, he’s in good spirits, he should be fine,” added Cora.
Sale has been more than fine this year, he has been flat out, ass-kicking dominant. In 23 starts totaling 146 innings, he owns the league’s lowest ERA (1.97) and FIP (1.95) among qualifiers, and his numbers look even better when you consider that he calls Fenway Park home. Though he’s made just nine of his 23 starts there this year, his 0.05 edge in ERA over second-ranked Blake Snell becomes a five-point edge via ERA- (44 to 49); meanwhile, his 0.42 edge in FIP over second-ranked Trevor Bauer is a nine-point edge via FIP- (47 to 56). Sale additionally owns the league’s highest pitching WAR, “whether you prefer the FIP-driven variety (6.1), our version based on runs allowed (6.7), or Baseball-Reference’s own metric (6.5). He has the majors’ highest strikeout rate (38.7%) and K-BB% (32.9 points) among starters despite toiling in the DH league.
Beyond the overall numbers, Sale has authored the season’s most impressive stretch of pitching. Beginning with his June 8 start — an eight-inning, one-run loss to the White Sox — and lasting through the All-Star break and his first trip to the DL, he has allowed two runs or fewer in each of his last 10 starts. In that span, he has allowed just five runs in 65 innings, without a homer allowed, and with an insane 109:12 strikeout-to-walk ratio. Only once within that stretch (on June 19 against the Twins) did he actually allow two runs in a game; since then, he has allowed one run in 44 innings while holding batters to a .145/.193/.191 line.
Neither Sale’s streak of seven games allowing one run or fewer nor his 10 games allowing two runs or fewer are the longest in the majors this season. Setting aside the work of Rays opener Ryne Stanek, Mets ace Jacob deGrom went eight games on the one-run-or-fewer front from April 21 through June 2, but his streak included abbreviated back-to-back starts from which he was removed for precautionary reasons, a four-inning appearance against the Braves on May 2 during which he hyperextended his right elbow while swinging and then a one-inning one against the Phillies in his return from the 10-day DL on May 13, during which he threw 45 pitches. Comparing the two streaks:
| Pitcher | GS | IP | H | BB | SO | HR | ERA | FIP |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| deGrom | 8 | 47.1 | 33 | 15 | 68 | 1 | 0.57 | 1.63 |
| Sale | 7 | 44.0 | 22 | 6 | 79 | 0 | 0.20 | 0.17 |
Both impressive, but I think we can agree that Sale has the upper hand in that one; if his FIP were spare change, you wouldn’t even bother to fish it out of the couch cushions. As for the two-runs-or-fewer streak, Stanek again notwithstanding, Justin Verlander had a longer one (11 games from April 9 to June 2) and Michael Wacha one of the same length (April 20 to June 9), but Sale carries the day with his rate stats:
| Pitcher | GS | IP | H | BB | SO | HR | ERA | FIP |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Verlander | 11 | 75.2 | 36 | 14 | 90 | 3 | 1.07 | 1.96 |
| Sale | 10 | 65.0 | 33 | 12 | 109 | 0 | 0.69 | 0.58 |
| Wacha | 10 | 62.0 | 41 | 20 | 55 | 3 | 1.74 | 2.97 |
Within that longer stretch, Sale reached double-digits in strikeouts eight times, including an MLB season-high five in a row from June 19 through July 11.
All of the above, the league leads and the spectacular stretches, are enough to convince me that Sale would be worthy of a Cy Young vote (if I had one) if the season ended today, despite the fact that 29 other AL starters have higher innings totals, including plausible candidates Corey Kluber (193.1), Verlander (188.0), Gerrit Cole (176.1), Luis Severino (173.2), and even Bauer (168.0), who has been sidelined by a stress fracture in his right leg since mid-August. Sale’s got the best rate stats of the bunch, hands down, and his sweep on both WAR fronts confirms that even when his less-than-perfect attendance is taken into consideration, he’s tops:
| Rk | Pitcher | Team | IP | fWAR | bWAR | Avg |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Chris Sale | Red Sox | 146.0 | 6.1 | 6.5 | 6.3 |
| 2 | Trevor Bauer | Indians | 166.0 | 6.0 | 5.7 | 5.9 |
| 3 | Corey Kluber | Indians | 193.1 | 4.9 | 5.8 | 5.4 |
| 4 | Justin Verlander | Astros | 188.0 | 5.3 | 4.7 | 5.0 |
| 5 | Gerrit Cole | Astros | 176.1 | 5.6 | 4.2 | 4.9 |
| 6 | Blake Snell | Rays | 151.2 | 3.0 | 5.8 | 4.4 |
| 7 | Luis Severino | Yankees | 173.2 | 4.8 | 4.0 | 4.4 |
| 8 | Mike Clevinger | Indians | 176.1 | 3.9 | 4.5 | 4.2 |
Which doesn’t necessarily mean that he’ll win. Given an AL East lead that expanded from five games to 9.5 games over the course of Sale’s last two starts, and still sits at the latter, the Red Sox have had the luxury of taking their time for him to return. Assuming that the team stays in a five-man rotation and doesn’t skip a fifth starter due to off-days, a look at the Red Sox’ schedule suggests that he could squeeze five starts into the rest of the month by pitching on September 7, 13, 19, 24 and 30 — the last day of the season, with the Division Series opener not until Friday, October 5 — but it seems highly unlikely that Sox will tax him to that extent. So figure it’s four starts; in our depth charts, we’ve estimated 21 remaining innings, which comes out to a bit more than five per turn. Seems reasonable.
That would bring Sale’s innings total to 167, which is enough to qualify for the ERA title, but historically, not enough to win a Cy Young. Since the award was introduced in 1956, only once in a non-strike season has a starter won with fewer than 200 innings: Clayton Kershaw with 198.1 in 2014, a year where he nonetheless led the NL in ERA, FIP, strikeouts, and both flavors of WAR. Granted, the industry-wide trend towards fewer innings from starting pitchers has been felt even at the award-winning level. You can see the trend via this chart (data courtesy of Baseball-Reference’s Dan Hirsch), which illustrates the average number of innings by the two winners or, in cases where only one award was given (1956-66 and in the seven years from 1977 to 2003 where a reliever won), the lone winner among starters. Of course I’ve omitted the 1981 and 1994 strike seasons:

Last year saw a sharp drop-off, as both Kluber (203.2) and Max Scherzer (200.2) barely nosed over the 200-inning threshold. Kershaw aside, no other previous full-season winner had thrown fewer than 2012 AL winner David Price’s 211 innings, and only five other times had a pitcher thrown fewer than 220, two of them in the slightly shortened 1995 season that produced the visible dip above.
We’ve already seen a recent precedent that works against Sale in the form of Kershaw’s 2016 and 2017 seasons, both shortened by back injuries. In the former, he posted a remarkable 1.69 ERA and 1.80 FIP, both of which would have led the league if he weren’t 13 innings short of qualifying. Kershaw led the majors with 6.5 fWAR that year, 0.8 more than Scherzer, but Mad Max led the NL in wins (20), strikeouts (284), and bWAR (6.3 to Kershaw’s runner-up 5.8). The voting wasn’t even close, as Scherzer garnered 25 out of 30 first-place votes; Kershaw, with two first-place votes, finished fifth. The Dodgers ace did throw enough innings in 2017 (175) to qualify for the ERA title, and he led the league with a 2.31 mark as well as with 18 wins. Scherzer had 16 wins, a 2.51 ERA, and the better FIP of the two (2.90 to 3.07) as well as sizable advantages in both fWAR (6.2 to 4.6) and bWAR (7.1 to 4.9). He received 27 first-place votes and won, Kershaw received the other three and finished second.
We obviously don’t know yet whether Sale will maintain his leads in the aforementioned rate stats — somebody going bananas with four great starts could narrow his ERA and FIP leads, and perhaps overtake him in WAR — but with just 12 wins, he isn’t going to catch Kluber (18), and likewise with respect to Verlander or Cole in strikeouts (248 and 243, respectively, to Sale’s 219). Here it’s worth considering the recent history of Cy Young winners and the categories in which they led the league:
| Pitcher | Yr | W | ERA | K | K/9 | IP | FIP | bWAR | fWAR |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Johan Santana | 2006 AL | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | |||
| Brandon Webb | 2006 NL | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | |||
| CC Sabathia | 2007 AL | 1 | 1 | ||||||
| Jake Peavy | 2007 NL | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | |||
| Cliff Lee | 2008 AL | 1 | 1 | 1 | |||||
| Tim Lincecum | 2008 NL | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | |||
| Zack Greinke | 2009 AL | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | ||||
| Tim Lincecum | 2009 NL | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | |||
| Felix Hernandez | 2010 AL | 1 | 1 | 1 | |||||
| Roy Halladay | 2010 NL | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | ||||
| Justin Verlander | 2011 AL | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | ||
| Clayton Kershaw | 2011 NL | 1 | 1 | 1 | |||||
| David Price | 2012 AL | 1 | 1 | ||||||
| R.A. Dickey | 2012 NL | 1 | 1 | ||||||
| Max Scherzer | 2013 AL | 1 | 1 | ||||||
| Clayton Kershaw | 2013 NL | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | ||||
| Corey Kluber | 2014 AL | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | ||||
| Clayton Kershaw | 2014 NL | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | ||
| Dallas Keuchel | 2015 AL | 1 | 1 | 1 | |||||
| Jake Arrieta | 2015 NL | 1 | |||||||
| Rick Porcello | 2016 AL | 1 | 1 | ||||||
| Max Scherzer | 2016 NL | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | ||||
| Corey Kluber | 2017 AL | 1 | 1 | 1 | |||||
| Max Scherzer | 2017 NL | 1 | 1 | 1 | |||||
| Total | 16 | 7 | 9 | 5 | 8 | 9 | 16 | 16 |
If a pitcher tied for the league lead with one or more other pitchers, I still gave him full credit in this context. I cut things off at 2006 in part because 2005 NL winner Chris Carpenter was the first pitcher working backwards who did not lead the league in one of these categories and, in part, because that was the earliest reference to FIP that I found in an admittedly hasty few minutes of research; WAR had not yet been introduced on either FanGraphs (2008) or B-Ref (2010). Including those here isn’t to say that voters were looking at advanced metrics, but knowing them does help our understanding of which awards were more justified than others. As you can see, over this stretch, the award-winners led their respective leagues in either flavor of WAR exactly as often as they did in wins, with ERA, FIP, strikeout totals, and strikeout rate apparently less influential. But for all of the attention that surrounded Greinke’s 2009 and Hernandez’s 2010 awards with relatively low win totals (16 and 13, respectively), it certainly doesn’t appear as though the W is becoming less influential in the voting, given that 13 of the last 16 award-winners have gone to the wins leaders.
Thus, if Sale goes on to win, it would rate as a significant event in the recent history of the voting. And for all of my hand-wringing, there is hope that he will carry the day. Last week, Richard Justice polled the BBWAA members within MLB.com and revealed that 30 out of 31 gave their first-place “votes” to Sale. These are not necessarily the writers who will be voting for the award, but some will come from that pool. Donning my Nate Silver cap for a moment, electorally speaking, it might best be understood as a poll of registered (if not “likely”) voters within one sizable state, enough to offer some promise for the candidate but not enough to predict victory. Still, if that poll (which also put deGrom ahead of Scherzer despite the latter’s 16-to-8 advantage in wins) is representative, I think the result will satisfy many a stathead.
Brooklyn-based Jay Jaffe is a senior writer for FanGraphs, the author of The Cooperstown Casebook (Thomas Dunne Books, 2017) and the creator of the JAWS (Jaffe WAR Score) metric for Hall of Fame analysis. He founded the Futility Infielder website (2001), was a columnist for Baseball Prospectus (2005-2012) and a contributing writer for Sports Illustrated (2012-2018). He has been a recurring guest on MLB Network and a member of the BBWAA since 2011, and a Hall of Fame voter since 2021. Follow him on BlueSky @jayjaffe.bsky.social.
There’s potential for the NL & AL Cy Young awards and the AL ROY to be historic in terms of the changing tide of player valuation.
What do you mean in reference to the AL ROY?
Otani deserves to win it
Ohtani hasn’t played enough.
How do you figure? He’s second in batting WAR behind Joey Wendle and has had easily the best offensive performance of any rookie. Add in his 1.0 WAR from pitching and he is easily the leader in rookie WAR.
255 ABs. It’s September. Where is your shame? If Trout is gonna get looked over, Ohtani should, pure and simple. End of debate.
NL/AL Cy Youngs in terms of ditching Wins
AL ROY in terms of multi-positional phenom & aggregating contributions from both sides of the ball.
“Hello ?”
– Felix Hernandez
Gotta be Kluber if not Sale?
Snell has a real shot. He could finish with a sub 1.90 ERA and 20 wins.
But his team won’t make the playoffs, and his team is the Rays.
That didn’t stop David Price in 2012. Team missed the playoffs, and his team was the Rays.
Snell’s only thrown a few more innings than Sale so far and is well behind the other guys in that regard too
Part of that is Snell’s next start is tonight- and then after that everyone will have 4 starts left. Snell will have at least 10 more innings than Sale after tonight- and by end of the season he could easily have over 20 more innings than Sale.
Sure but he’s at least 40 innings behind Kluber. My point is that the thing that’s a negative for Sale is also a negative for Snell. If Sale comes back for a couple starts and Snell ends up like 10 innings ahead of Sale, there’s not really any argument for Snell over Sale. But if you’re not voting for Sale because of innings, then Snell has the same issue
He was going into tonight 5.2 innings ahead of Sale but 41.2 innings behind Kluber. He’s got 4 shutout innings so far. Could easily leave tonight a good 12-13 innings up on Sale and only 34-35 innings behind Kluber. And odds are pretty strong that he’ll be able to gain more innings on Sale while probably also gain on Kluber some.
As far as your claim that there’s no argument for Snell over Sale- Snell could easily finish with a better ERA than Sale and have 20 wins and have 20+ more innings than Sale does. To a lot of traditional voters, that matters.
Why would you think Snell would gain innings on Kluber? Kluber’s averaging 6.67 innings per start, Snell’s averaging 5.8.
Snell’s 11 innings up on Sale, after today’s start. Sale’s supposed to be activated tuesday and throw a couple innings, so that will be down to 9 when Snell pitches next. Would assume the Red Sox will be working Sale back to a full workload for the playoffs after that, so doubtful Snell picks up any additional innings on Sale beyond that time … he probably ends up with 10-15 innings more than Sale? Kluber and Verlander likely end the year with about 40 innings on Snell and 50 on Sale.
Cy Young voters definitely don’t ignore things like FIP and strikeouts, or WHIP, like even the most traditional guys seem to look at WHIP, and Sale is crushing Snell in those categories. Unless Sale gets lit up the rest of the year I don’t see how you’d possibly argue for Snell over Sale based on Snell having a few more innings. A 10-15 inning gap at the end of the year is pretty negligible. A 40-50 innings gap is harder to ignore.
Personally I’d vote for Sale … if a reliever can get the Cy Young, ever, then Sale should be able to get one even though he’s going to have way fewer innings pitched than Kluber, Verlander and Cole. If Bauer hadn’t also been hurt it would’ve been his to lose after Sale was shelved … but the only other guy who had a truly exceptional year was Snell, just him averaging less than 6 innings per start and not being as good as Sale on a per-inning basis in every meaningful category kills it for him.
Sale would have 3 starts after Tuesday. Snell would have 4 starts after Tuesday. So while Sale goes 2 next start, Snell goes 5-7. So another 3-4 inning advantage there…..
Also, they say that they’re going to build an inning at a time…
so Tuesday 2 innings
Sunday 3 innings
Fri 21 4 innings
Wed 26 5 innings
that would put him at 14 innings, or 160 for the entire season. IMO devastating for him to get the award. I just think a lot of voters will look at a guy who isn’t qualified for the ERA/rate titles and basically cross that guy off the list.
Snell though could easily add up another 24 innings giving him 181 for the season. I could see Snell gain some innings on Kluber only because Kluber may see a start or two cut short to rest him for the playoffs.
Also would say that probably in todays era, it’s close to impossible for a relief pitcher to win the award. So your last point is pretty close to a moot one now.
IP is more of a tie-breaker if pitchers are in the same ERA neighborhood
Snell is 3/4 run per game better right now.
Still a ways to go but right now Snell has it over Kluber, while Sale has it over both of them.
If Sale is done for the year and Snell & Kluber pitch 3 more games like they’ve pitched all year, Snell should get it.
Not that I think he will
IP becomes a pretty significant issue when there’s a huge gap though. Like right now despite the ERA, Kluber and Snell are tied in bWAR, mainly because Kluber’s thrown a lot more innings. Kinda my point with Snell vs Sale though, that in that case the innings isn’t going to be hugely different between those two, but Sale’s got him beat in ERA, with a large advantage in k/9, bb/9, WHIP, FIP … so you’re not going to look at Snell having a few more innings than Sale as a tiebreaker, because they’re not tied in the other categories, Sale’s ahead by a lot.
Sale has got to come back and perform though. He’s got a very minimal ERA lead now. 2 runs in 2 innings and the lead is gone.
Also, to a lot of voters, 160 innings which is where Sale will be at is just going to be too far. 180 on the other hand is at least a lot more acceptable- and would still by the way be setting a pretty good new mark.
Very doubtful they abbreviate Kluber’s starts. Kluber throwing 90-100 pitches is usually 7 innings.
If Kluber gets his third Cy, that gives a big boost to his HOF chances, despite the late career start.
Looking at the remaining schedule for Boston….
He’s throwing a bullpen session tomorrow- Sep 8.
So go 5 days from there for 1st start. That’s Sep 13 vs Toronto. Most likely an opener type of thing, like 2 innings from what they’ve said
Sep 18 @ Yankees
Sep 23 @ Cleveland
Sep 28 Yankees
They might be able to make his schedule a bit eaier replacing the 23rd start with a start on the 24th vs Baltimore- then pushing back last start a day.
So for him to get 21 more innings, with an opener type of start, he’d have to get 19 innings in other 3 starts. That’s a real stretch.
I think bare minimum he’s got to get to 162 innings, or 16 more. But he’s also got to pitch well in those innings. If he goes even 8 runs in 16 innings- his ERA is up to 2.22. He also can’t have one of Kluber, Verlander, or really even Snell go crazy last 4 starts of the season with something like 3 runs in 27 innings. Snell would be at a 1.86 ERA(178.2 ip), Verlander would be at a 2.51 ERA(215 ip), and Kluber at a 2.53 ERA(220.1 ip) ….
Verlander would be the likely one to go on a tear, methinks.
Pile up innings and strikeouts.
Kluber might but I suspect his last two starts will be spaced out and short to protect him for the post season. Plus, if Bauer makes it back Cleveland might go six man to lighten the loads and see more of Plutko.
Kluber is going to get 4 starts though still. Starts on Sep 10 and 16, and then 2 more in the final 2 weeks of the season. So he could easily get those 27 innings….
Also looking at last year- they had him do a short start last one of the year- 5 innings and only 81 pitches. And we saw how he was in the playoffs. I could see them going the other way and leave it normal for Kluber and have him be coming into the playoffs very normal.
Verlander may be very interesting though. His last 4 starts- Detroit, Arizona, Angels, and Orioles. It would be real easy to see him just decimate those 4 teams.
That was my thinking, yes.
Sale is unlikely to pitch the additional 16 innings he needs to qualify for the ERA title, or even if he does, Snell could outpitch him down the stretch and win that title. Either way, if Snell wins the ERA title and leads the league in wins and DOESN’T win the Cy Young, that combination would be unprecedented (and unfortunate).
Just last year Kershaw led the NL in Wins and ERA and didn’t win the award. Largely due to 25 fewer innings.
This one would be different because Snell would have roughly 15-20 more innings than Sale does.
Also would hardly say that it’s unlikely that Sale gets the 16 innings. Just 1 2 inning opener stint followed by 3 5 inning starts gets him 17 innings.
Thanks for that correction about Kershaw last season.
We’ll see about Sale’s innings for the rest of the season. I suspect the BoSox won’t let him go five innings, or maybe will allow it only once. The last time he went five innings he wound up back on the DL. They’ll probably stick with “openers” until the playoffs.
I think the Sox almost have to do it to make sure they know what they have for the playoffs. They don’t want the first time he goes even 5 innings being game 1 of the LDS where a loss puts them needing to win a game in NY to just get back to Boston for a 5th game.
Actually Mike Boddicker pulled off the feat in 1984, finishing 4th in the AL Cy Young vote despite leading the AL in wins and ERA.
That was the year Willie Hernandez won the award with Dan Quisenberry finishing 2nd.
Bert Blyleven also finished ahead of Boddicker even though he had one fewer win and a slightly worse ERA.
I’m reminded of the 2003 Cy Young race between Halladay and Pedro. Halladay threw 266 innings of 3.25 ERA ball, Pedro 186.2 innings at a 2.22 ERA. Two very different ways to get there, but their WAR were nearly identical: Halladay with 7.0 fWAR/8.1 rWAR, Pedro at 7.4 fWAR, 8.0 rWAR. But Halladay won 22 games and Pedro only 14 so naturally Doc won it running away. Things have changed since 2003, but I’m not sure they’ve changed enough for a guy with 160-something innings to win the Cy.
Halladay/Pedro 2003 Halladay threw 42% more innings
Kluber/Sale 2018 current- Kluber thrown 32% more innings current
if it gets to 220 vs 160- 38% more innings
I guess question for me is with the MLB.com writers, are they typically the more advanced metrics folks?
Looking at last years Cy Young voters- 5 AL voters were from MLB.com and 7 NL voters were from MLB.com
MVP- 5 AL from mlb.com, NL- 8 from mlb.com
Mgr of year- 8 AL from mlb.com NL- 4 from mlb.com
ROY- 3 AL from mlb.com NL- 2 from mlb.com
so would say the MLB.com voters will only form at the most 1/4 of the electorate.
He deserves it. He’s easily the best pitcher in either league and even though hell end up missing 7 starts, that’s like denying the MVP his trophy despite being easily the best offensive and defensive player with insane numbers but only having 500 at bats on a first-place team
Just last year that happened….
Mike Trout had 507 PA’s but missed a lot of time due to his hand injury. He finished 4th in the MVP voting and didn’t get a single first or 2nd place vote.
I think this is going to be a race that we truly don’t know until the award is given out. Especially if he only goes another 10-15 innings and doesn’t even qualify for the ERA title.
I think his problem will be he’s going to either be 1st or like 4th/5th. I think others like Kluber/Verlander will have almost as many 1st place votes- BUT gets a lot of 2nd/3rd place votes as well.
Probably an unpopular opinion, but I don’t think he’s actually hurt. I think the club has just made a conscious decision to try trading Sale’s potential CY for a potential WS win, given Sale’s propensity to fade down the stretch. That said, I would not want to be around Chris Sale if the Sox have an early round playoff exit. Throwing away your chance at the award and not having it pay off? I would hide the scissors.
This isn’t really unpopular, it’s widely suspected that it’s the case and Sale’s comments essentially confirm it.
Highly unlikely. The value of Sale’s 2019 option is partially dependent on how he performs in Cy Young voting.
To wit:
“2019 option increases $2.5M with a Cy Young in 2013-18 or $1.5M with a 2nd,3rd place finish in Cy Young vote in 2013-18.”
He already has the $1.5 million locked in. But that bonus increases to $2.5 million if he wins the Cy Young this year.
If the Red Sox were deliberately sitting him and potentially costing him $1 million, both Sale and the union would be screaming bloody murder.
This definitely adds a wrinkle, but in my mind Sale is on it too (hence his calm disposition lately), so he wouldn’t raise the issue to the union. Maybe the elevated chance at a WS win is worth $1 to him? I mean, I already think he’s willing to throw away his chance at the Cy, and I would think most pitchers already in MLB would care more about winning a Cy Young than an extra million bucks.
I think it’s reasonable to assume that the Red Sox would just make up the $1 million difference in that case. It’s chump change for an Ace you have aspirations to re-sign.
I’m not sure how these things work (Sheryl Ring Likely would) but my guess it that those sorts of shenanigans would expose the Red Sox to a potential grievance case. And any sort of under the table agreement would likely be prohibited by the CBA.
not to mention what you’re thinking, but also the fact that the Red Sox are a luxury tax team….
One reason I disagree with Sale winning the Cy as that he has historically faded in August and September. This is a year-long award and, although injuries have been a factor for him, I still think it should be considered. Sale likely would have had a better case last year had he not performed significantly worse from August onward. While he has yet to show any signs of fading this year, I still cannot shake the feeling that he would not be handling the extended workload as well had he not gotten injured. For me, I would choose Snell or Kluber simply because of their longevity this season.
A lot of awards voters place a lot of value on suiting up.
There’s no telling how heavily they’ll weigh rate stats vs counting stats.
Should be interesting both for the Cy and the ROY.
As far as the ROY- Ohtani has right now only 110 fewer at bats than Torres does. More than made up for with the pitching of course. So I don’t think the suiting up angle has anywhere near as much in the ROY as it does the Cy Young Race.
I wasn’t thinking Gleyber.
There’s other rookies out there, healthy, playing, and recently hot.
Just like with the Cy the next weeks might swing what looks close now.
To be clear: I’m not saying Otani isn’t the most talented p!ayer to debut in the AL this year or that Sale doesn’t have a good shot at the Cy.
What I am saying is that voted awards have a subjective component that brings in the voter’s value system, preferences, and biases. We see this in HOF voting (the “rule of 2000” ), Gold Glove awards, MVP and Cy voters leaving top players off their ballots entirely, etc.
Rational analytical thought might say a given player is a clear winner but a voter or two might have different ideas and in a close matchup that could be enough to swing the outcome.
A player might be penalized for short outings, DL stints, being a DH… It doesn’t have to be rational; it just needs to be part of the voter’s value system.
So you’d vote against him not cuz he hurt but because of his past…?
Not out of the question that some sportswriter might think that if he wasn’t on the DL he’d be gassed and knock him down a notch for it. Especially if he favors a hometown candidate.
Trying to guess what old school voters might do is risky business. Their trzck records are…spotty…
I think one way to deal with this issue is to add the rates and stats of the average AL starting pitcher to Sale’s rates to get to however many innings is fair. 180? 190? Or perhaps do it for every pitcher to get them to match the league leader in innings.
If Sale + 30 average innings is still best, he deserves it.
I don’t think it’s fair to assume Sale’s next 30 innings would be just as good as he had been all year. At the very least, there would likely be some regression.
Otherwise, why not give it to someone who had 15 great starts? Or 10?
Thing is if you add 40 innings to him at league average- he would have a 2.47 ERA. If Kluber or Verlander had a really good finishing kick they could be around 2.50. So then you get to should the guy who performed the entire season get it then? I think a lot of the traditional voters would say yes to that.
I think a guy with only 150-160 innings is going to be a step way too far with the traditional voters.
I’m talking about every rate, though, not just ERA (which is fickle and not that indicative of how they pitched). What would his K/9 be? His BB/9? His WHIP and xFIP? Obviously it’s a lot of work to actually do this for every pitcher who is potentially in the running, which is why I think it’s ok to eyeball it for cases like this.
If you add 45-50 innings of average AL starting pitcher (8.15 K/9, 3 BB/9, 4.41 ERA), Sale’s still probably leading or almost leading in K/9 and has a good mid 2’s BB/9 with a 2.60 ERA or so.
You can do the same with Snell and Bauer (though their non-ERA rates are not as competitive).
I think that puts Sale neck and neck with Verlander, Cole, and Kluber (assuming they don’t make big improvements).
So that’s a long-winded way of saying that I think if the season ended right now, I’d have a hard time choosing between Sale, Verlander, Cole, and Kluber (and would easily dismiss Bauer and Snell). I think that’s the only way I can make up for the missed time.
that might be how you would look at it. But I don’t think a lot of the voters would look at it. If Sale doesn’t get to 162 innings, I really don’t think he’s got a chance at all. Kershaw in ’16 had a year MUCH better than what Sale has- but had 147 innings pitched. He was on only 11 of the 30 ballots. Of those 11 ballots, he was top 3 in only 3 of those. To a lot of the voters, the innings that Sale has will totally DQ him- they won’t even consider him.
I’m not trying to predict what they will do, just how I would deal with it.
My method gives fair consideration for everyone but also doesn’t reward someone for 110 or 90 or whatever awesome innings.
I’m trying to predict what the voters will do. I just think the voters look at the innings number for Sale and for a lot of the voters he is off their list totally…
And like I said- the #1 votes will probably be pretty close to equal. But for Sale the big problem is where he’s #1 for voters- guys like Kluber or Verlander will be #2 and #3. For voters that vote Kluber or Verlander- odds are real good that those voters 2nd pick will be also either Kluber or Verlander.
This is basically what WAR/WAA does, no? If Sale plus a replacement pitcher to match Kluber’s innings is still better than Kluber, that would theoretically just mean that Sale has more WAR than Kluber.
Not trying to knock your methodology, but I think you’re reinventing the wheel a bit here.
Right, but that’s Kluber right now. Sale plus replacement pitcher might mean his WAR is still 6.1 with far worse rates. Cole is already at 5.7 and Verlander is 5.3, with Kluber at 4.9. At least one of them is likely to pass Sale.
If you want to just go by pure WAR, that’s fine too. By that method, Sale is also likely to not be first.
Can we give the AL award to Trout for being dominant before hitting the DL too?
Nope. He’s not a Red Sock. That’s the sort of intellectual dishonesty used to promote RS players, facts be damned.
Chris Sale going eight innings, giving up one run, and losing a game in which the White Sox are playing is really just nostalgia.
Failed to mention Edwin Diaz candidacy. Compared to other relief Cy Young award winners in history, and aside from the insane season that Eric Gagne had in 2003, he blows away the competition.
In any other season, Diaz very well might be leading the charge for this award. I agree that Sale deserves the award but Diaz is not that far behind.
so the Tango Cy Young Tracker going into tonight:
Snell 76.5
Verlander 75.8
Bauer 75.4
Sale 74.9
Kluber 74.7
Snell looks like he’ll gain some ground tonight even- right now it’s a 1.5 point start and could get higher.
Snell got the win tonight so with that it’s a 2.5 point start. Right now he’s got 79 points and a good 3.2 point lead over Verlander. Sale is 4th.
This tracker is supposedly very accurate with what the voters have done recently. So wouldn’t totally discount Snell by any stretch.
I think the Porcello debacle taught the voters not to go primarily by ERA.
I don’t think how guys perform after their Cy Young season impacts voters in the least. Nor really should it quite frankly.
The debacle is that Verlander was better in every aspect (K/9, K-BB%, ERA, starts, innings, WHIP) except for wins. Even if Porcello were dominant since then, he didn’t deserve it that year.
Just looking- Porcello beat him in FIP the WHIP was 1.001 to 1.009 so no big deal at all there, and had a lot fewer walks. So no it wasn’t every stat that he was better than him.
Walk rate by itself doesn’t mean anything. K%-BB% is what matters, where Verlander had a clear lead.
Sale as of right now, but he needs at least 6 more quality innings to win it. Something to show the writers that he probably could have and would have had more quality IP if the race wasn’t a walk over.
If not and Snell rolls of 3 more 6+/2- starts, it’s Snell, unless Kluber gets his ERA within a half run of him.
Sale needs the 16 innings to get to the 162 IMO.
Kluber(or Verlander) could easily get within half run of Snell.
Snell right now at 2.06
Kluber 2.75
Verlander 2.73
Wow with the Red Sox doing the opener strategy with Sale we get cheated out of 2 incredible matchups….
he’s scheduled to open on Sunday the 16th vs Mets, who are starting deGrom
he’s then scheduled to open on Saturday the 22nd vs Indians, who are starting Kluber
such a shame that he’ll only get supposedly 3 and 4 innings in those games.
Like a hitter sitting out the last few games to win the batting title, I guess. Sale the Stealth candidate.
“It certainly doesn’t appear as though the W is becoming less influential in the voting, given that 13 of the last 16 award-winners have gone to the wins leaders.”
I think this is actually a misleading read of the situation.
Only two pitchers on the table above won the Cy while leading the league in wins without leading in at least one of the two WAR metrics.
Meanwhile, eight pitchers won the Cy without leading in wins.
a lot of that was from 2007-2010. Since 2011, only 3 times did the Cy Young winner not lead the league in wins.
Also, since 2011, only twice did the winner not lead in either ERA or wins. Dickey in 2012 and Scherzer last year. Dickey in 2012 did win 20 games. Scherzer had 25 more innings than Kershaw.
I was going to make that exact point. Leading in wins have generally come as a consequence of leading in WAR so it’s misleading to say that there is proof the writers are using Wins as a primary determinate.
One thing kind of interesting….
Jay omitted the strike years of 1981 and 1994…..
but I went to look….
1981
Valenzuela 192.1 IP won NL Cy Young. Rollie Fingers won AL Cy Young as a reliever
1994
Maddux 202 IP won NL Cy Young, Cone 171.2 IP won AL Cy Young
So no starting pitcher has won a Cy Young with fewer than 170 innings. and only Cone won it with fewer than 190….
I just think the suiting up part is going to impact a lot of the voters.
The next 3 days pretty big.
tonight- Verlander and Kluber pitch vs Detroit and Tampa respectively
tomorrow- Sale does his first 2 inning opener vs Mets
Wednesday- Snell pitches vs Indians
After this, these 4 have only 3 more starts left(though I suppose for Verlander and Kluber they could get a 4th one on last day of season to stay on track for 1st LDS start).
Is there more value in Sale being an “opener” or just coming in to the game in a high leverage situation to a mostly average Sox bullpen (Kimbrel not included)?