Corbin Burnes’ Masterful Season Deserves a Cy Young Finish

Saturday afternoon, Corbin Burnes made several uncharacteristic missteps. He walked Max Muncy on five pitches, only the 34th walk he’d issued all year. The next batter, Justin Turner, deposited a 3-1 cutter into the left field stands for a three-run home run, only the seventh Burnes had allowed all season.

He pitched another inning without incident, then — back in the lead in the ERA race after briefly falling behind Max Scherzer — came out of the game for good, his regular season now complete. That ineffective outing might worry Brewers fans for the playoffs, but it also emphasized how spectacular the rest of his year has been. Surrendering a walk and a home run? It happens to everyone — batters hit 5,944 homers this season, third-most in history, and walked roughly 9% of the time they came to the plate. But it doesn’t happen to Burnes — and that’s why he deserves to win the NL Cy Young this year.

There’s no single criteria for the most outstanding pitcher in the National League, but in my eyes, Burnes has claims on several axes, and no real warts. More than that, his 2021 season is a towering achievement, one that we’ll hear about in 20 years when we talk about the best pitching seasons in history.

Let’s start with something simple: the ERA crown. No starter with 100 innings pitched had a lower ERA than Burnes this year. None had a lower RA9, either; if you’re looking for a pitcher who stopped opponents from scoring, you couldn’t find a better ace than Burnes. He didn’t do it in a cavernous home stadium, either; American Family Field (ugh), where he made 15 of his 28 starts, is a marginal hitter’s park, particularly when it comes to home runs.

About those home runs: it’s comical how few Burnes allowed. The seven he surrendered work out to 0.38 homers per nine innings, the best mark among starters with 100 innings pitched (limiting statistics to qualifying pitchers in this season of light workloads undersells how thoroughly Burnes trounced the competition). Only Miami’s Trevor Rogers came close — and among other Cy Young contenders, Burnes sticks out like a sore thumb:

HR/9 Leaders, 2021 Starters
Player IP HR HR/9 HR to match
Corbin Burnes 167 7 0.38
Trevor Rogers 133 6 0.41 1
Logan Webb 148.1 9 0.55 4
Zack Wheeler 213.1 16 0.68 6
Antonio Senzatela 156.2 12 0.69 6
Lance McCullers Jr. 162.1 13 0.72 7
Nathan Eovaldi 182.1 15 0.74 7
Adrian Houser 142.1 12 0.76 8
Charlie Morton 185.2 16 0.78 8
Framber Valdez 134.2 12 0.80 8

That “HR to match” column denotes how many homers Burnes would have to give up — without recording another out — to fall behind that player in HR/9. With a respectful tip of the cap to Antonio Senzatela, who calls Coors Field home, Burnes suppressed home runs better than anyone else in baseball, and even Rogers, with the benefit of fewer innings (more randomness) in a pitcher’s park, couldn’t keep up.

You Aren't a FanGraphs Member
It looks like you aren't yet a FanGraphs Member (or aren't logged in). We aren't mad, just disappointed.
We get it. You want to read this article. But before we let you get back to it, we'd like to point out a few of the good reasons why you should become a Member.
1. Ad Free viewing! We won't bug you with this ad, or any other.
2. Unlimited articles! Non-Members only get to read 10 free articles a month. Members never get cut off.
3. Dark mode and Classic mode!
4. Custom player page dashboards! Choose the player cards you want, in the order you want them.
5. One-click data exports! Export our projections and leaderboards for your personal projects.
6. Remove the photos on the home page! (Honestly, this doesn't sound so great to us, but some people wanted it, and we like to give our Members what they want.)
7. Even more Steamer projections! We have handedness, percentile, and context neutral projections available for Members only.
8. Get FanGraphs Walk-Off, a customized year end review! Find out exactly how you used FanGraphs this year, and how that compares to other Members. Don't be a victim of FOMO.
9. A weekly mailbag column, exclusively for Members.
10. Help support FanGraphs and our entire staff! Our Members provide us with critical resources to improve the site and deliver new features!
We hope you'll consider a Membership today, for yourself or as a gift! And we realize this has been an awfully long sales pitch, so we've also removed all the other ads in this article. We didn't want to overdo it.

Pitching is about more than a low ERA and few home runs allowed, though that’s a lot of the game. Strikeouts have always been the mark of a great pitcher, and as the league strikes out more and more, running the highest strikeout rate in the game has gotten progressively harder. As recently as 2010, Jon Lester’s 26.1% strikeout rate led baseball. This year, that would be 18th. If you want to stand out these days, you need to strike out a lot of hitters.

Despite the tougher competition, Burnes stands alone here as well. He’s the major league strikeout rate champion this year with a 35.6% mark. Excluding 2020, that’s the fifth-best full-season mark since 1999, and you might have heard of the guys in front of him: 2019 Gerrit Cole, 1999 Pedro Martinez, 2001 Randy Johnson, and 2017 Chris Sale. Sure, a rising strikeout tide lifts all starters, but Burnes still stands ahead of the rest of his 2021 competitors.

The least home runs, the most strikeouts — what are you going to tell me next, that Burnes walked the fewest batters in baseball too? Not quite, but it’s only by a narrow margin. Burnes walked 5.2% of the batters he faced this year — 11th-best among starters who pitched 100 innings. Even if we limit it to qualified pitchers, he ranks third, behind Nathan Eovaldi and Julio Urías. What a bum! He didn’t even lead the league in all three FIP categories — though he might have if it weren’t for a relatively wild September, where he walked 7.2% of the batters he faced.

It’s easy, if you want to, to paint Burnes’ season as a triumph of FIP. Fielding Independent Pitching refers to the outcomes that fielders don’t influence — strikeouts, walks, HBPs, and home runs. As we covered above, Burnes stands out in all three categories, which makes his place on the 1969-present FIP leaderboard unsurprising:

Best FIP Seasons, ’69-present
Player Year FIP ERA
Pedro Martinez 1999 1.39 2.07
Corbin Burnes 2021 1.63 2.43
Dwight Gooden 1984 1.69 2.60
Clayton Kershaw 2014 1.81 1.77
Tom Seaver 1971 1.93 1.76
Jacob deGrom 2018 1.99 1.70
Clayton Kershaw 2015 1.99 2.13
Matt Harvey 2013 2.00 2.27
Steve Carlton 1972 2.01 1.97
Shane Bieber 2020 2.07 1.63

Martinez’s season is widely considered to be the greatest since the mound was lowered. It’s hardly surprising that Burnes couldn’t match up to him, but in the class of “every season other than the greatest of all time,” he more than holds his own. Given that Martinez’s 1999 season isn’t eligible for the 2021 NL Cy Young award, that’s hardly relevant.

The most strikeouts. The lowest ERA. The fewest home runs allowed, and nearly the fewest walks allowed. Burnes has an overwhelming rate-based argument — none of his closest competitors bested him in even a single category. Scherzer came close — with a near-identical walk rate and a 34.1% strikeout rate that was second in baseball — but allowed 23 home runs instead of seven, an HR/9 mark three times higher than Burnes’s.

If you want to make a case against Burnes, it can only be about volume. After all, he led the league in ERA and RA9, even disregarding the historically dominant peripheral numbers. It’s definitely true that Burnes carried a lighter workload than some of his closest competitors:

Cy Young Candidates, IP and WAR
Player IP ERA FIP WAR rWAR
Corbin Burnes 167 2.43 1.63 7.5 6.3
Zack Wheeler 213.1 2.78 2.59 7.3 6.7
Walker Buehler 207.2 2.47 3.15 5.5 7.4
Max Scherzer 179.1 2.46 2.97 5.4 6.7
Brandon Woodruff 179.1 2.56 2.96 4.7 6.4

Given that his ERA lead is less commanding than his FIP-based margin, that puts Burnes in a pack with the rest of his competitors, rather than alone out front. If you’re subscribing purely to a WAR-based evaluation of pitchers, that leaves Burnes and Wheeler in a rough tie at the top, assuming a blend between FIP-based and RA9-based WAR.

Personally, I don’t think that WAR is the proper framework for a Cy Young vote, and I don’t even think it should be controversial. If Burnes had pitched another 20 innings of exactly league-average baseball, his WAR would increase. That’s just how it works — league average is better than replacement level, and every inning of work where you beat that low baseline accrues value. But an extra 0.2 WAR in exchange for a much higher ERA — 2.62 in this hypothetical case — wouldn’t flatter Burnes’s case at all. It’s fairly clear to me that adding average innings to a Cy Young level pitcher should make their case worse, not better.

Given that, I prefer to look at innings pitched as more tiebreaker than criteria. Is there some minimum bar to clear? Absolutely! If Burnes had pitched only 120 innings with his current rate numbers, I don’t think you could credibly have him in the award conversation. At that level, he’d fall far short of the bar when it comes to total contributions, enough so that his 2021 season wouldn’t feel like a full year’s work.

This is clearly not that. Twenty-eight starts doesn’t fall far short of a 32-start full season. Burnes missed two turns due to a COVID diagnosis earlier this year, and the Brewers have used a six-man rotation more often than not this year, which works out to roughly one fewer start every two months.

You could look at each pitcher’s contributions relative to average rather than to replacement level if you preferred to account for playing time that way — again, it’s not my preferred method. Here, Burnes is again in the thick of things when it comes to run prevention, and ahead of the pack if you blend our two versions of WAR (or WAA):

Cy Young Candidates, IP and WAA
Player IP ERA FIP fWAA rWAA Blend
Corbin Burnes 167 2.43 1.63 5.8 4.6 5.2
Zack Wheeler 213.1 2.78 2.59 5.1 4.5 4.8
Walker Buehler 207.2 2.47 3.15 3.4 5.3 4.4
Max Scherzer 179.1 2.46 2.97 3.6 4.9 4.2
Brandon Woodruff 179.1 2.56 2.96 2.9 4.6 3.7

I still think this framework misses the point. If Burnes threw 20 more innings of 4 ERA baseball, he’d improve his marks relative to average — and again, would look worse as a Cy Young candidate. Burnes has pretty clearly been the most outstanding pitcher in baseball when he pitches — again, he has the ERA title, strikeout title, home run title, and missed the walk title by very little. Whether you care about the runs that actually scored or the events that he exerts the greatest control over, he’s been the best in the business. Doing it over 28 starts of 5.96 innings per start — as opposed to 33 starts of 6.29 innings per start, the numbers Walker Buehler has put up — doesn’t sound like much of a difference to me at all.

If you accept that “best” makes more sense as a rate judgment than a celebration of counting statistics, Burnes is a slam-dunk candidate. Even if you don’t, though — even if you prioritize raw numbers — I still think he has the best case.

Prefer Buehler to Burnes? Buehler has fewer strikeouts — 212 against Burnes’ 234 — despite pitching 40 more innings. Prefer Wheeler? Wheeler muscled his way to 213.1 innings — and 13 more strikeouts. He also surrendered nine more home runs, and his ERA-, which accounts for his tough home stadium, was nine points higher, which means Burnes was 9% better relative to league average — in the rate statistic that least flatters Burnes. Max Scherzer? He barely pitched more innings than Burnes, had a worse ERA and FIP, didn’t go deeper into starts, and gave up three times as many bombs.

If you only took a brief glance at the NL Cy Young race, it would be a nearly impossible web to untangle. Five pitchers — seven, really, because Urías and Kevin Gausman had wonderful seasons as well — all have standout numbers. Dig a little deeper, though, and it’s a false equivalence. They have similar-ish numbers, but only if you don’t think on it too long. Burnes laps the field in the most impressive numbers. He’s neck-and-neck in total value accrued, even with fewer innings logged. There’s no one who does so well in both categories — and that sells him short, because his mastery of strikeouts, walks, and home runs over a full season’s work puts him in rare historical air.

I don’t have a vote this year — I’m not a BBWAA member, and the San Francisco chapter isn’t exactly an easy place to get a vote even if I were. If I did have one, though, I’d place Burnes first on the ballot and feel great about it. I’d have Scherzer, who was Burnes-esque except for the homers, second. After that, I’d place Wheeler third, Buehler fourth, and Urías fifth, though I wouldn’t quibble with someone for mixing Woodruff in there somewhere.

One last thing — I’ve heard a few people mention the defense behind Burnes as a reason that his ERA is less impressive than it first appears. Don’t buy the hype. Whatever your view of their overall defense, per Baseball Savant, the Brewers actually cost him three outs relative to average with their play behind him. Meanwhile, Wheeler has gained nine outs from his defense, Buehler has gained five, Scherzer has gained two, and Woodruff has gained four.

We had the pleasure of watching one of the great pitching performances of our era this year. A run at the FIP triple crown, league-leading run prevention numbers, and sheer “here is my cutter, you won’t hit it” dominance at every turn — he did it all. Watching a Burnes start felt like a rare treat every time out, and hitting a homer off of him — or even drawing a walk — seemed like a rare achievement. This season will live on in the record books — and I think it should live on in a chunk of metal on Burnes’ shelf, as well.





Ben is a writer at FanGraphs. He can be found on Bluesky @benclemens.

111 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
mariodegenzgz
4 years ago

Yeah, I don’t agree whatsoever, and there’s a lot here. First and foremost, FIP doesn’t mean a thing to me when it comes to assessing past value. The Cy Young award is not about projecting for the following seasons, it’s about rewarding the results achieved in the season that was just completed, and FIP based ERA for pitchers is a ridiculous notion imo. I mean, for example, fWAR says Burnes’ 2021 is over a full win better than Verlander’s 2011, which is just… LMAO. A pitcher’s job isn’t to strike guys out, limit walks and limit homers, it’s about pitching as many innings as possible while allowing as few runs as possible. If that’s done through a super low BABIP, home run or sequencing luck, then guess what? It still counts the same in a CY race. This is about results, plain and simple.

The next thing is the difference in innings pitched between Burnes and Wheeler (who’d be my pick) is very, very significant. 45 more innings is damn near 8 more starts’ worth, or a whole reliever if you want to look at it that way. Also, the value of a workhorse starter goes far beyond the stats he puts up while on the mound; he keeps the bullpen fresher, usually keeps the bad arms from seeing the mound on his good starts, etc.

167.0 IP is just not enough. People are going to say “well, the Brewers run a six-man rotation and Burnes missed time with COVID, that’s not his fault!” and sure, it’s not his fault, but it sharply decreases how valuable he can be. Individual pitchers have never mattered less throughout the history of baseball, and Burnes is the most clear example of this whole phenomenon. I mean, we’re judging guys purely on rate stats now? These are starting pitchers, not relievers!

I’d easily go with Wheeler as my NL CY. He’s been outstanding on a rate basis and worked more than anybody else, which I give him a huge plus for considering how little starters pitch right now. Buehler would be number 2, then Scherzer/Burnes, then the rest. Waino better get some votes as well!

willbun
4 years ago
Reply to  mariodegenzgz

FIP isn’t *strictly* predictive; it’s descriptive as well. A key difference between ERA and FIP is in the name. FIP is fielding-independent, while ERA doesn’t even attempt to isolate pitcher performance. Much of ERA is on the pitcher’s performance, but much of it is on the defense’s performance as well. The Cy Young award should honor the best pitcher, not the best pitcher/defense combination.

mariodegenzgz
4 years ago
Reply to  willbun

1. FIP completely ignores balls in play, which is ridiculous.
2. ERA being fielding dependent doesn’t matter in a CY race. If I’m projecting for who to sign as a GM? Sure, FIP will be more related to performance. But in a results based award? I couldn’t care less, because the pitcher did his job, which is to have as few runs cross home plate while he’s on the mound as humanly possible, however it’s done.

willbun
4 years ago
Reply to  mariodegenzgz

The job of having as few runs cross home plate as humanly possible is a job shared by the pitcher and the defense.

Imagine a 1-2-3 Cardinals/Reds inning in which India lined out to Sosa, Arenado threw out Castellanos at first after an incredible diving stop, and Votto flew out to Bader. No runs were scored. If I’m a Cardinals fan, I’d be happy with that result. But we disagree on whether or not the pitcher did their job.

(Please forgive me if my imaginary scenario doesn’t make sense, given a typical Reds batting order.)

mariodegenzgz
4 years ago
Reply to  willbun

The job was done very well, because fielders exist for a reason. This ain’t golf lmao. Here are two imaginary starts:

A: 6.0 IP, 4 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 1 BB, 10 K, 0 HR
B: 8.0 IP, 8 H, 1 R, 1 ER, 1 BB, 3 K, 1 HR

Which start do you think is better?

willbun
4 years ago
Reply to  mariodegenzgz

To answer your question, I think Start A is better. From the perspective of pitcher performance, 10 K’s over 6 innings is more impressive than 3 K’s over 8 innings. The pnly aspect of Start B that is superior to Start A is IP. If the purpose of this comparison was to suggest that B > A because of the lower ERA, then I disagree with you per my above comments. If the purpose of this comparison was to suggest that IP should be a significant factor in awards voting, then I’m not sure how that’s relevant to our discussion on ERA and FIP.

Imagine a four-person group assignment in school. Three of the four people crushed the assignment with hard work, insightful research, and clear presentation. The fourth person partied while the other three worked, and that person didn’t speak at all during the presentation. The result was an A, but I wouldn’t say that fourth person did their job well, even if the result was an A.

Per your argument, why not give the Cy Young to Urias because he leads in pitcher wins? The job of winning games was done very well, because the other players on your team exist for a reason, right? If you’re not sold on that idea because a pitcher can’t control his team’s offense, then you’re already isolating performance, but in my opinion, you’re not isolating enough.

mariodegenzgz
4 years ago
Reply to  willbun

In other words, what you’re saying is every time a batter puts the ball in play, a pitcher has not done his job. I disagree completely, so I’ll leave this here.

SucramRenrutMember since 2017
4 years ago
Reply to  mariodegenzgz

A

mariodegenzgz
4 years ago
Reply to  SucramRenrut

How is A better? Pitcher B allowed the same amount of runs and got six more outs.

mytablesaremycorn
4 years ago
Reply to  mariodegenzgz

Who pitched 33% more innings than Burnes while giving up the same number of runs?

mytablesaremycorn
4 years ago
Reply to  mariodegenzgz

Construct an A and B where A has an equal or lower era (which is necessary for your larger argument) please

bing bong enjoyer
4 years ago
Reply to  mariodegenzgz

Easily A. Pitcher B allowed 4 more baserunners, and potentially gave seven more the opportunity to get on base. Getting lucky that your pitcher didn’t allow 4 to 11 more baserunners than another pitcher does not make for a better pitching performance one bit.

drewsylvaniaMember since 2019🏆 MVP
4 years ago
Reply to  mariodegenzgz

Dude, this is a Cy Young vote. Which is about…how good a pitcher is, not how good the fielders behind him are.

You’re all over the place with what you’re arguing.

mariodegenzgz
4 years ago
Reply to  drewsylvania

You can’t separate one from the other. Even the biggest strikeout aces still allow the ball to be put in play over half the time. To use a metric that removes over half the events that happen to a pitcher is laughable. And again, any stat that says Burnes’ 2021 is well ahead of Verlander’s 2011 is flat out laughable.

drewsylvaniaMember since 2019🏆 MVP
4 years ago
Reply to  mariodegenzgz

No, your doubling down on ignorance is what’s laughable.

mariodegenzgz
4 years ago
Reply to  drewsylvania

Verlander pitched 251.0 innings of 2.40 ERA (172 ERA+) and 0.92 WHIP. Burnes pitched 167.0 innings of 2.43 ERA (176 ERA+) and 0.94 WHIP.

In what universe is Burnes’ season even in the same ballpark as Verlander’s? JV got 252 more batters out with the same rate stats!!

bing bong enjoyer
4 years ago
Reply to  mariodegenzgz

Not even close to the same rate stats unless you’re cherrypicking overall rate stats – Burnes has less than half the HR rate, a 25+% boost in K rate, a massive advantage in swinging strike rate and a lower percentage of XBH on hits he does give up. Way way way more dominant.

mariodegenzgz
4 years ago

“More dominant” yet Verlander allowed fewer baserunners and the ERA+ is virtually identical. Verlander also averaged like 116 pitches and 7.3 innings per start. Burnes went over 110 once in 28 starts and below 6 innings per start.

It’s just very funny to me how Burnes had a historical season on the peripheral side and he still couldn’t manage 6 IP per start despite it. Part of that is on Counsell and the Brewers handling him like a delicate piece of clothing, of course, although with how much of a max effort guy he is it may be warranted.

hughduffy
4 years ago
Reply to  mariodegenzgz

Burnes has a HIGH TTO penalty.
34.2 IP, 4.41 ERA, .312/.365/.440 allowed.

Left of Centerfield
4 years ago

But would Burnes have been “way way way more dominant”, had he pitched 251 innings as Verlander did? Remember, Burnes was throwing fewer innings per start AND taking more days off between starts. His “degree of difficulty” was simply a lot lower than Verlander’s.

johnforthegiants
4 years ago

Yes, this is a legitimate question and criticism.

johnforthegiants
4 years ago
Reply to  drewsylvania

It isn’t ignorance, it’s stupidity.

hughduffy
4 years ago
Reply to  willbun

The best pitchers use the defense behind them to make outs. The Cy Young award should honor the best pitcher, no matter how they get guys out. The most important thing is getting outs. If you’ve got Andruw Jones in center field, make use of him. If you’ve got vacuum cleaners in the infield, make use of them.

drewsylvaniaMember since 2019🏆 MVP
4 years ago
Reply to  mariodegenzgz

You need to go back and reread the article, also review FIP.

Ukranian to Vietnamese to French is back
4 years ago
Reply to  mariodegenzgz

I don’t agree with anything, and a lot is happening here. First of all, the FIP menu does not make sense when calculating past costs. Young said that it does not refer to the design for the upcoming season, it is an award gained during the season that has just ended, and the rough FIP for pitchers is one term, FIFI. I mean, for example, fVAR says Burns is 2021. It’s a completely better win than Verlander 2011. Only this year … LOOK. Binh’s job is not to overdo it, but to deliver as many unions as possible, while allowing as few as possible. If it was done with a super short child, running home or a pure chance, guess what? It is always important in the CI race. We are talking about results, simple, easy to understand.

The next thing is that the difference in height between Burns and Wheeler (that would be my choice) is very, very big. half of 45 is almost the beginning of the eighth or all the relief if you want to see it that way. Also, the value of a novice workaholic exceeds the statistics he sees a lot like an embankment, keeps the music cool, often doesn’t allow the bad guys to see the dam when I’m off to a good start, and so on.

An IP address of 167.0 is simply not enough. People will say, “Yes, Brevers has one of six male rotations and it burns time with COVID, it’s not his fault! And that’s certainly not his fault, but this is it. They’ve greatly reduced their own value. The pitchers have never been more important in the history of baseball, and Burn is a great example of this phenomenon. I mean, we’re not guessing now. Human prices based on betting statistics? This is the original set, not for the gearbox!

I could easily have chosen to be Wheeler, my primary assistant. He is exceptional in betting and works more than anyone else, which gives him a huge advantage considering how few shoes he has now. The central attribute will be number 2, then bright diamonds / flashing, then the rest. Vineau is also better to get votes!

mariodegenzgz
4 years ago

Idk what this is, but it’s funny. Good stuff

Ukranian to Vietnamese to French is back
4 years ago
Reply to  mariodegenzgz

{looks like you may be new here. I take all kinds of comments and run them through some layers of translation before going back to English again. I post the best ones on here from time to time – most of them come from either long, colorfully stated comments (like yours), or ones so poorly written that the translation actually makes just as much sense as the original 😉

– Serb}

FunFella13Member since 2016
4 years ago

Contributes nothing to the discussion and is only used on comments that are critical of the article, seemingly as a means of “dunking” on the person by making them sound dumber than the original comment.

drewsylvaniaMember since 2019🏆 MVP
4 years ago
Reply to  FunFella13

In this case, it was hard to sound dumber.

Look It Up
4 years ago
Reply to  FunFella13

You sure know how to have fun, fella.

BarryZitoBarChords
4 years ago

The last two paragraphs are priceless!

Left of Centerfield
4 years ago

I’m quite concerned as to why Wheeler has so few shoes…

dl80Member since 2020
4 years ago

Don’t worry too much; he’s working more to presumably buy replacements.

Jason BMember since 2017
4 years ago

DON’T LET THE BAD GUYS SEE THE DAM!!!

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  mariodegenzgz

This fundamentally misunderstands why FIP is predictive. It is predictive because it captures the pitcher’s contribution better than ERA or RA9.

It’s very likely that xERA is better for this purpose if we can trust the batted ball measurements (I think we can, but we can debate it) and I personally like SIERA because it gives extra boosts to ground-ball pitchers (who are shortchanged by FIP). But judging the pitcher based on ERA is a bet that we can mentally or mechanically adjust based on defensive contributions and if you want to defend the proposition that we measure defense accurately enough to do that, good luck to you.

Member since 2017
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I agree that xERA is probably better for this kind of discussion, Burnes lead the league in that also (2.01 to Wheeler’s 2.78).
I don’t know the math behind SIERA that well, but Burnes lead the league there too (2.61, Wheeler is 4th with 3.18).

To me the guy who goes up there and never gets teed up, almost never gives up the free base, and strikes the other team out like crazy is the Ace-iest pitcher in the conversation.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to 

Yeah there is really no argument that Burnes was best on a rate basis. He leads in every single one. The only question is whether it was enough to compensate for the lack of innings.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  mariodegenzgz

Just going to to throw this out here too, since I suspect it will eventually be required:
This related to why we trust hitter BABIP more than pitcher BABIP. It is because the hitter is constantly hitting into different defenses. Pitchers are always pitching behind the same (or at least very similar) defenses. We never get to observe them under a different condition (at least not in a single year).

sbf21
4 years ago
Reply to  mariodegenzgz

I agree 100%. Wheeler is the clear pick. Can’t believe all the down votes.

Sometimes I think a lot of the people commenting here should skip the actual games and just play endless simulations so the real world doesn’t intrude upon their firmly held belief in the numbers. My lord, some nerve the Mariners had winning 90 games when they should be under .500. And how dare the Yankees edge out the Jays when they should be well behind them.

Jason BMember since 2017
4 years ago
Reply to  sbf21

Those…those seem to be rather disingenuous arguments. Some people were cheering for the Mariners specifically BECAUSE of their poor run differential. And people want the Yankees to finish behind the Jays because it’s the GD Yankees…

johnforthegiants
4 years ago
Reply to  mariodegenzgz

FIP is a more accurate evaluation than ERA FOR THE PRESENT. The whole point of relating FIP to future ERA is not to predict future ERA but rather to show that FIP is a more accurate evaluation FOR THE PRESENT.

airforce21oneMember since 2026
4 years ago
Reply to  mariodegenzgz

It’s hard to take someone seriously when I keep reading “LMAO”.

Thanks for the layman’s view on baseball analytics, I guess.

Spahn_and_Sain
4 years ago
Reply to  airforce21one

It stands for LayMan’s Analytic Outupt?

viceroyMember since 2020
4 years ago

Respectfully disagree. To me the Cy Young should go to the Ace-iest pitcher, who combines per inning excellence with volume; someone who can dominate, put a game on their back, and save the bullpen. Especially in a year where most pitchers are limited, volume is a bigger factor to me than strikeouts or homeruns given up, as the goal at the end of the day is to limit runs and help the team win at a much greater probability than a set of bullpen arms. Wheeler’s 3 CGs, 2SHO and WAR lead help solidify his claim to the award. Additionally, if you look at the first time through the order he actually had a lower FIP than Burnes did.

Do I think he should be rewarded that his bullpen was bad and the team desparate? No, but he did prove that he could be that durable and reliable Ace, which Burnes didn’t need to do, and it’s conceivable that an extra inning or 2 per start could have easily led to some bad luck, home run regression or less effective innings. But that’s speculation, so it’s better to look at what we do have – which is essentially an extra 5 or 6 games pitched by Wheeler at only slightly worse quality per inning.

My ballot (not that anybody asked) would be Wheeler, Buehler, Burnes, Scherzer, Gausman. With honorable mention to Woodruff and Waino

archibaldcrane
4 years ago
Reply to  viceroy

Burnes had more 9+K, 0 walk, 0 run starts this season than any pitcher ever has in MLB history.

joe_schlabotnik
4 years ago
Reply to  viceroy

totally agree, also, I think people apply expected stats to pitchers way too heavily. Call me old school but i think ERA is still… a good stat? If you pitch a ton of innings and don’t allow runs to score, your team is better. If expected stats say otherwise, and you still give up tons of runs, your team is worse off for it. I just think were ending a weird place if voters rely more on “what could have been” than what actually happened. A good example is Bryce ‘s 2015 mvp season. He absolutely mashed and outpaced his xwOBA. Who cares? He did it for a whole season! and he ended up being a unanimous MVP. Under this logic perhaps a hitter with less results, but better expected stats could have won, or got some votes. Why don’t people apply the same xStats rigor to hitters? It seems the argument is lopsided towards pitchers. (and im glad hitters are still mostly spared from this).
Im sure bob gibson got super lucky in his ERA record season. That makes it even cooler that he managed to do it for that long, over that many innings pitched, and get away with having a 1.12 era. Can we allow for there to be some magic in baseball?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago

I just knew someone was going to bring this up.

The difference is that Harper plays against a lot of different defenses and the pitchers play behind the same defense every night. We know that Harper’s offensive contributions in 2015 were not because the Phillies ran out a defense featuring Cody Asche, Ryan Howard, Darin Ruf, Jeff Franceour, and so many others because he only played against the Phillies occasionally in 2015. But if you want to assess how good Aaron Nola is in 2021 you don’t have that luxury because the sample size of Nola without that defense behind him is so small as if to meaningless. Some people try to get around this by adjusting for defense but good luck with that.

In technical terms, this is a correlated errors problem. The error associated with defensive abilities is not systematically correlated with a hitter’s production over the course of a 162 game season but pitching performance almost always is.

joe_schlabotnik
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

thats interesting and thanks for the heads up on the correlated errors, but it doesn’t really do anything to change the way I feel about this.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago

Never mind then.

johnforthegiants
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

What you’re writing is correct but batters’ results are affected a lot by BABIP luck. There are formulas for correcting for batters’ BABIP luck based on contact data but as far as I know, Fangraphs Off and WAR calculations don’t use them but simply take all a batter’s results at face value. That isn’t consistent with the idea of using FIP rather than ERA–Fangraphs basically evaluates pitchers based on performance but batters based on results.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago

Over the course of a season you would expect the errors to mostly average out. Every so often you get guys who are truly exceptionally lucky, and hitter BABIP is not necessarily all that predictive of future BABIP exploits. But for the most part, you can attribute hitter BABIP to the hitter.

johnforthegiants
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

They generally even out over the course of a season but not necessarily. Last year Mike Yastrzemski’s BABIP was .370; in 2019 it was .325; this year it was .254. There’s no way even half of that was due to his contact data; in fact his IFFB% went DOWN this year from 12.1% to 9.5%. His luck has just taken a radical downturn. On the other hand Steven Duggar (.355), Buster Posey (.349), and Brandon Crawford (.334) have had BABIPs way higher than their career averages this year and there doesn’t seem to be any reason to attribute this to any reason other than luck.

diamonddores
4 years ago

would Burnes be short on innings if he had gotten vaccinated?

jankees1991
4 years ago
Reply to  diamonddores

What a ridiculous comment. Do you actually know if he wasn’t vaccinated, as opposed to a breakthrough case? Moreover, who cares? It’s an unfortunate circumstance either way.

hughduffy
4 years ago
Reply to  jankees1991

Burnes was placed on the COVID IL on 4/29/2021, and stayed there for two weeks.
Burnes said he opted against getting vaccinated for personal reasons.

si.or.noMember since 2017
4 years ago
Reply to  jankees1991

Not that ridiculous. Assuming the vaccination reduces likelihood of infection (and, dear god, please don’t debate this), he could’ve gotten maybe 2-3 more starts in. But maybe that would’ve been negated by the Brewers handling of his innings totals.

So there is a chance that his non-vaccination affects his Cy Young chances!

Neils-Henning Orsted Joc Pederson
4 years ago

Excellent piece, Ben. But hasn’t the voting closed on all baseball awards? A persuasion piece of such thoroughness and eloquence should perhaps have been posted three or four days ago. (Admittedly, then all of the stats would exclude everyone’s final 2021 start, so there’s obviously a tradeoff there.)

jankees1991
4 years ago

Do you think voters are perusing Fangraphs articles to make their decision? Most likely either their minds are already made up, they vote based on gut feeling, or they’ve done their research way ahead of time anyway.

cowdiscipleMember since 2016
4 years ago
Reply to  jankees1991

I would say yes, it seems likely? Baseball writers read baseball content. I imagine most BBWAA writers have read at least some FanGraphs pieces, and it’s probably reasonable to suppose a fair number are pretty regular readers.

kylerkelton
4 years ago

He had an amazing season and is an amazing pitcher but it’s just hard for me to get past the volume. Just not enough innings to be the Cy Young, in my opinion. The lowest innings total for a Cy Young winner (not counting relievers and 2020) is Blake Snell with 180 2/3. And he had a microscopic ERA. Which gets me to my next point…
FIP doesn’t mean much to me for Cy Young. I love FIP as a stat but awards are about actual runs not theoretical runs. Of course Burnes has the lowest ERA among qualified starters BUT his ERA and RA/9 is not all that different from Buehler who did it with MUCH more (40 innings) volume.

Dmjn53
4 years ago
Reply to  kylerkelton

I would counter that by saying he gave more value in 167 innings than any other pitcher did with more innings.

There’s a clear 1A and 1B with Burnes and Wheeler here. Whoever’s 3rd is a distant 3rd. If Wheeler wins because of volume here I won’t complain, but I don’t buy the volume argument because you can rather easily produce more value in less innings than a lesser pitcher would in less innings.

kylerkelton
4 years ago
Reply to  Dmjn53

Jacob deGrom gave more value than anyone ever in 92 innings so why not him?

Dmjn53
4 years ago
Reply to  kylerkelton

Because deGrom gave the 6th most value in the NL. Burnes was 1st

kylerkelton
4 years ago
Reply to  Dmjn53

Value is largely subjective and can be measured in different ways. By bWAR Wheeler provided the most value. By Baseball Prospectus WARP it was also Wheeler. By Clay Davenport’s WARP it was Wheeler. By FG WPA it was Scherzer. By B-Ref WPA it was Hader. By Run Expectancy Wins on by FG and B-Ref you get Buehler. Some old head would say that Urias had the most wins so he was most valuable lol. You could make your own measure and you might get someone else. By my own measure I might get someone else.

Go Wess Young Man
4 years ago

Very thorough post Ben and your reasoning is excellent.I must ,however,disagree.I too feel that the innings argument is persuasive.When you pitch dozens of innings less than your primary competition for CY Young award, it is very relevant regarding your value to your team.There is no argument here that Burnes had an incredibly successful year but Wheeler had a much worse bullpen and staff backing him up.I bet he was called upon to pitch more often and longer with the possible weariness that could have effected all of his stats.For me,Wheeler,Buehler,then Scherzer and Burnes would be my order for CY Young.

tung_twista
4 years ago

Very good arguments, some of which almost convinced me but at the end of the day, I disagree.
Part of the reason is that, it was much tougher to be a Phillies starter than a Brewers starter.
Not only because of defense and ballpark you mentioned, but also because of relievers.
We are familiar with times-through-the-order penalty.

Wheeler
1st 287PA OPS .431
2nd 287PA OPS .586
3rd 247PA OPS .699
4th 27PA OPS 1.137

Burnes
1st 252PA OPS .438
2nd 243PA OPS .424
3rd 156PA OPS .811
4th 5PA OPS .800

32% of Wheeler’s PA was against hitters who’ve seen him twice before compared to 25% for Burnes.
Wheeler had several games where he would have been taken out with a half competent bullpen but was kept in because Girardi (not unreasonably) thought tired Wheeler is better than, say, Hector Neris or Ian Kennedy.
For an extreme example, take away the 27.1IP of Inning 7-9 from Wheeler and his ERA drops down from 2.78 to 2.32.
That is not to say we should ignore Wheeler getting shellacked in late innings, but those inning differences do mean much more than just four more starts and should be taken into consideration.

Alternative way to look at things:
Wheeler pitched 100+ pitches in 17 out of 32 starts
and 110+ pitches in 4 starts.
Burnes pitched 100+ pitches in 6 out of 28 starts
and 110+ pitches in 1 start.

tung_twista
4 years ago
Reply to  tung_twista

There is an additional factor in favor of Wheeler.
Inherited runners.

Wheeler left 14 runners for the bullpen, 6 of which scored.
Burnes left 15 runners for the bullpen, 3 of which scored.

Now, you might say not all men on base are equal, and you would be absolutely right.
Taking a closer look at the outs and baserunner situation,
4.3 of Wheeler’s inherited runners were expected to score and 6 did.
(Notable blow: Twice, he left with 12- 2 outs, only for both runners to score. Both times.
notable save: Once, he left with 12- 0 out and none of them scored)
7.7 of Burnes’s inherited runners were expected to score and 3 did.
(Notable blow: -2- 1 out and the runner scored.
Notable save: Bases loaded, once with 0 outs, once with 1 out, no runner scored.)

If you adjust their ER to (expected ER with average bullpen)
you end with Burnes at 2.68 and Wheeler at 2.71.
Much closer than 2.43 and 2.78.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago

I don’t know about FIP exactly–it’s useful in a lot of ways but xERA and SIERA are probably better. But even then, he’s first in xERA by something like 75 points over Wheeler, and 30 points over Scherzer in SIERA. There’s really not much argument against the idea that he’s been the best pitcher on a rate basis this year and by a lot.

Is it enough to offset the innings? I don’t know. A lot of pitchers look better if they don’t go through the order as much, and taking the ball is an important part of production. If you swap out FIP for xERA what does a wins-above-replacement like measure look like? I’m going to guess that it will nudge Wheeler ahead by a little bit, so I’d probably go with him first and Burnes at #2. But if Burnes is still ahead I’d take him instead.

hughduffy
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

If Burnes makes 30-33 starts, I don’t think it’s an issue. He averaged just under 6 IP/GS, so he would have ended up around 180-198 IP, which is reasonable.

The RA9-WAR favors Buehler over Wheeler, Scherzer, Woodruff, or Burnes, in that order.

archibaldcrane
4 years ago

Corbin Burnes had 5 starts this season with 9+ strikeouts, 0 walks, and 0 runs allowed.

That sets the MLB record for starts in a season, 3 others have ever done it 4x.

He’s done it 7 times in his career. MLB career record is 14.

grandbranyanMember since 2017
4 years ago

The difference between Burnes & Wheeler was 46 IP | 21 ER | 46 H | 13 K | 12 BB | 9 HR.

Looks like a 1980’s reliever stat line.

MorlandMember since 2020
4 years ago

I have no problem with Burnes winning the Cy Young. Don’t dismiss the fact that some pitchers averaged a third of inning more per start however. Every additional out means less work for the bullpen and means that you’re likely to need only your best relivers to finish the game. Every additional out means less of a need to bring in one more reliever. Each additional reliever brought in provides the possibility that that individual may not have it that night and might cost his team the game. A pitcher who averages more innings per game than most starters provides a definite benefit to his team. A starter who does that while pitching with superb numbers in all the measurables is definitely worthy of the Cy Young award. The reason for this debate is that there are at least half a dozen pitchers who fit that statement this year in the NL.

tomerafan
4 years ago

Stats alone shouldn’t determine awards and neither should the “eye test.” But they have to be considered together.

I watch a lot of baseball. Too much, in my wife’s estimation, for someone who enjoys the sport as a hobby rather than a career. And both the stats and my eyes tell me that Corbin Burnes was the best pitcher in the NL for the full season, and it’s not close.

Wheeler was good and durable. Scherzer found a second gear after his trade. And there was a time when I thought it was Buehler’s to lose.

But this was Burnes’s season, and he was the best pitcher in the NL from his ridiculous start of the season to the end, on a playoff team that exceeded expectations. Every single stat except IP backs it up. To me, since he is ERA-title qualified, that means that someone else with more innings has to be dominating in those extra innings to win. Wheeler was darn good. But he was nowhere near as dominating as Burnes, by the stats or the eye test.

tomerafan
4 years ago

Also, the innings talk on Burnes is silly. Especially after the 2020 COVID season where I expected a lot of pitchers in 2021 to get some rest and have some lower innings totals. If Burnes had pitched 28 starts in a row with that stat line and then was shut down for the playoffs given his huge innings increase year over year, would anyone be arguing that he didn’t have enough innings? The guy was the most dominant pitcher in the NL from beginning to end of the season and you think he doesn’t deserve the act Young award because of the way his pennant winning team handled a 6 man staff in a COVID season and relied on a dominant back of the bullpen? Then the winner better be someone who puts up a line like deGrom in 2018, not Wheeler in 2021.

AlbyMember since 2017
4 years ago

Adding average innings to a Cy Young-level performance is exactly why Wheeler’s numbers aren’t better — and they were added because the Philadelphia bullpen, unlike Milwaukee’s, couldn’t be trusted.

Baseball games are 9 innings long, not however long Burnes can go tonight, and real aces — Scherzer, for example — provide quality AND quantity.

tomerafan
4 years ago
Reply to  Alby

Punishing a dominant player for the management strategy of their franchise is the most head-scratching rationale I’ve heard yet.

“Your team has the best 8th AND 9th inning guys in the league and since your manager chooses to use them, you’re clearly not as good a pitcher as a guy on a team with a dumpster fire of a bullpen. Even though you led your team to the playoffs and they didn’t.”

LMFAO.

Some of you seem to forget that there are actual baseball games played that generate the underlying stats and the stats don’t exist in some vacuum. And in real live baseball games in 2021, Corbin Burnes was the best pitcher in the NL.

marinmccoveysMember since 2026
4 years ago

I agree with this piece. My full awards: NL MVP Trea Turner (although I wouldn’t argue with Tatis, Harper, or Soto. Posey deserves sleeper consideration: nobody was better per game played, except maybe Tatis), AL MVP Ohtani, NL CY Burnes (yes he was so dominant that makes up for the IP difference with Wheeler), and AL CY Cole (I understand the cases though for Rodon, Ray and Eovaldi). NL NL MOY is Kapler (sorry, there is NO reasonable debate there, none). AL MOY is Cash, although Servais has a case. The NL West divisional race was also the greatest divisional race of all time.

sbf21
4 years ago

Burnes had an excellent season. An outstanding season. Zach Wheeler should be the Cy Young winner in the NL.

46 more innings pitched. An ERA within 0.35 of Burnes. Easy choice for me.

bluerum29
4 years ago

Burnes pitched great this year. He just wasn’t CY Young material. Innings pitched for a starter is one of the top elements especially with the amount of pressure put on bullpens now a days. The longer the starter can go, the more significant a contribution they are giving.
Burnes would not make my top 5 list for the award.

MorboTheAnnihilator
4 years ago

Sorry, Ben but I have to pick a nit. Apologies if it’s a rather large one.

I buy most of your argument but not this: “Brewers actually cost him three outs relative to average with their play behind him. … and Woodruff has gained four.”

They pitch for the same team; it’s the same defense. All defensive metrics are basically crap and while OAA is the least crap in my opinion. If any of them tell me that the SAME TEAM has a 7 out differential between two pitcher over the course of one season I’m going to laugh in it’s and your face.

The rest of your argument was good, but in trying counter a fairly innocuous point(most good pitching season benefit to some degree from the defense) you made your whole argument weaker. Don’t put your weakest argument last, just don’t use it, or at the very least bury it in the middle where it will be forgotten.

Nit over. Loved the piece otherwise

Ball in Glove
4 years ago

It’s not the same defense daily. In one of Burnes starts that I attended this year, Jace Peterson was playing 2B, instead of Kolten Wong. Jace missed a slightly difficult popup on the right side that Wong would have caught easily. This was ruled a hit and the Pirates scored 2 runs because of that one out not being made… subtracting from his ERA dominance 🙂

This is a small sample size anecdote that can help explain how defense can be different for pitchers on the same team, based on the daily lineups, defensive positioning and some batted ball luck.

Olinkapo
4 years ago

Boy oh boy was this close for me.
But give me Wheeler.

Burnes was certainly better on a per inning basis, but I wasn’t sure it was enough to make up for the forty-five additional innings Wheeler provided and a significant edge in innings per start to Wheeler…

Wheeler’s tougher schedule sealed the deal for me

Using **end of season** wOBA as my team batting quality proxy,

The average team Wheeler faced had a .3164 wOBA
It was .3126 for Burnes.

17 of Wheeler’s 32 starts (53%) came against top 10 MLB offenses (.320+ wOBA)
7 of Burnes’ 28 starts (25%) came against those teams.

Wheeler generated his roughly 7.5 WAR in a tougher pitcher’s park, facing a tougher schedule, being asked to face batters a third and fourth time more often, and — if I have game log right — without missing a single start.

Burnes generated his roughly 7.5 WAR in the better pitcher’s park, facing a weaker slate of opponents, being relieved of the third time through the order more often, got an extra day of rest more often, and missed multiple starts due to COVID…for which he had opted against getting the vaccine.

(Whether that very last point is relevant, I suppose, is a matter of personal taste. If a player goes on the injured list for an injury he actively made more likely through personal behavior/decisions, I’m absolutely not willing to give him the same pass on the missed time I’d give to most injuries. In this sense, Burnes’ missed time is closer to Devin William’s wallpunching act than, say, Chris Bassitt’s comebacker.)

In any event, it is awfully close for me and I can see great arguments for both. I’ll take Wheeler’s season for Cy, though.

Cheers…

Xerostomia
4 years ago

Burns should get severely penalized for pitching 40-50 less inning than Wheeler or Buehler. That is almost 20-25% less pitching. Matters most at the end of the season when everyone is wearing down.

I think WAA should be a significant factor. bbref has Wheeler and 5.8, Buehler at 4.9 and Burns at 4.1. That is a significant difference.

bly
4 years ago

1999 was amazing! You may want to link to the Pedro Martinez who pitched that year.

bly
4 years ago

To me, this is the year we find out how much CYA voters believe in FIP.

mikejuntMember
4 years ago

I think Burnes has the best case, but I do think it’s fairly close. One thing, though, that I do think its worth considering even as someone who largely uses FIP to evaluate pitchers, is that there are some questions on the extremes that are worth considering.

Over the last 5 years or so we have seen the a number of elite seasons by power pitchers go through their seasons allowing almost all of their runs to score via solo home runs. Gerritt Cole and Justin Verlander have both done that a few times, and Max Scherzer is similar. FIP, conceptually, doesn’t really account for pitchers who limit baserunners so effectively that their home runs allowed are almost always worth 1 run and not the 1.6 or so that home runs tend to average in run value.

I am not really sure that this phenomenon existed in baseball prior to the last few years as pitchers strikeout rates start to approach the 11-12-13 per 9 innings mark, which is essential in reducing balls in play to the point that, when accompanied with few walks, this effect can happen. Verlander and Cole were deserving Cy Young candidates (and winners). I do not think it makes sense to overly penalize Scherzer for succeeding via this same model – it is clearly something that, in fact, pitchers of a certain caliber can sustain.

The other thing to consider is something that was true in 2020 with Burnes, and remains true to a lesser extent this year:

Burnes, for 2 seasons now, has been very fortunate when he DOES allow a Barrelled ball. In 2020, Burnes allowed 9 Barrels, and somehow only one of them was a home run – his wOBA was .555 points better than his expected wOBA on those Barreled balls.

Here in 2021, Burnes has only allowed 12 Barrels – a testament to how much better he’s been. But even then, there remains a substantial (though smaller) gap of .226 points of wOBA between his expected outcomes and his actual. Whether this is park stuff (though ..Miller ..or whatever it’s called now, Park, is regarded as a HR-friendly place), or defense (Jackie Bradley?), I can’t say. But on the 12 Barrels he’s allowed, batters facing Burnes are 7-12 with 2 doubles and 5 home runs and 5 flyouts. That is .. not what you would expect from a Barrelled ball.

Burnes HR suppression is notable, but I do think it’s worth considering that it is such an extreme outlier that, almost by definition, it must be partly the product of good fortune as well as good pitching.

Just for fun, I took a look at the 5 barreled outs. There’s one fantastic Lorenzo Cain catch (stealing a double, not a HR), but mostly they’re just crushed balls to dead center that are caught at or against the wall. When you are dealing with such a small number of events, it’s pretty easy for the random spray angle of the baseball to work out in your favor. I do not think Burnes’ HR suppression is a sustainable skill, at least not to the extreme we see.

Tom Tango did one of his serial head-to-head poll series for the NL Cy last night and Burnes narrowly edged Scherzer. I think that’s probably about right: I think I’d vote for him, but it’s pretty close.

BROD
4 years ago

Another stupid article by Ben Clemens? Don’t understand how this guy has stayed in the job.

– 2021 DRS –
Wheeler +5
Burnes -2

Here is a newsflash for you: Burnes sucks at controlling the running game.

The fact that his FIP-based WAR tells you that Burnes (7.6 fWAR) was almost as good as Ohtani (8.1) this season is beyond even a joke.

Yeah, I know that WAR heavily penalizes Ohtani for being a two-way player, but still the fact of the matter is that FIP is a garbage stat.

Xerostomia
4 years ago
Reply to  BROD

Another example of FIP as a poor indicator was Brandon Webb 2006-2007-2008. FIP consistently above 3, low SO/9.

I think many would agree that Webb was a ‘pretty good’ pitcher non the less.

Cave Dameron
4 years ago
Reply to  BROD

I wouldn’t have guessed that Wheeler had one of the best defenses behind him when he pitched, but he did. 2021 Outs Above Average, per Statcast:
Wheeler’s defense when he pitched: +8 outs, +6 runs prevented
Burnes: -3 OAA, -2 runs prevented

BROD
4 years ago
Reply to  Cave Dameron

Are you dumb, stupid or dumb? Your point is completely irrelevant to the discussion.

Go to Google and type in “Brewers’ Corbin Burnes Deserves To Edge Phillies’ Zack Wheeler For NL Cy Young”.

Burnes (-2 DRS) posted a 40.3 TRPAA (Tru Pitching Runs Above Average) this year while Wheeler (+5 DRS) had a 39.6 TRPAA.

Does that need more explanation?

Jason BMember since 2017
4 years ago
Reply to  BROD

SO AGGRESSIVE in your disagreement…

Cave Dameron
4 years ago
Reply to  BROD

It’s so irrelevant that the writer edited their article to include this information?

It’s just as relevant as your point, since you were attempting to provide some input of how defense is valuable and can impact the runs scored when a pitcher is pitching. If you want to do that for the pitcher’s individual defense then that’s good, but why not do it for the whole team?

It’s not irrelevant to point out that a common talking point of this comment section (Phillies defense being much worse than the Brewers) becomes less certain when you look deeper into it. DRS agrees with that statement but OAA does not.

By team OAA the Brewers are at -14, and the Phillies are at -15. And when broken down further to each specific pitcher then Statcast says that it was Wheeler that actually benefitted from good defense behind him +8 outs and Burnes was actually hurt by defense at -3 outs.

Of course DRS tells a different story with Brewers at +57 DRS and the Phillies at -52. DRS doesn’t attempt to separate for specific pitchers so you don’t know how good each defense actually was behind each pitcher.

There’s some conflicting conclusions depending on whether you use DRS or OAA, but it’s definitely not irrelevant to use actual defensive stats on a stats-based website. It’s literally what you did too.

BROD
4 years ago
Reply to  Cave Dameron

The above metric (TPRAA) removes defense from the equation, you moron.

BROD
4 years ago
Reply to  BROD

Expected ERA (xERA)

Definition

Expected ERA, or xERA, is a simple 1:1 translation of Expected Weighted On-Base Average (xwOBA), converted to the ERA scale. xwOBA takes into account the amount of contact (strikeouts, walks, hit by pitch) and the quality of that contact (exit velocity and launch angle), in an attempt to credit the pitcher or hitter for the moment of contact, not for what might happen to that contact thanks to other factors like ballpark, weather, or defense.

Bryan FischerMember since 2021
4 years ago

An excellent article. Thank you.

johnforthegiants
4 years ago

If I’m considering whether I’d rather have Burnes or Wheeler pitching for my team given their stats this year, a big consideration has to be what kind of pitching I’d get for the 46.1 innings that Wheeler pitched but Burnes didn’t, and that’s going to depend on the quality of the rest of my staff. If I’ve got the Orioles, for example, and the FIPs of my top 5 starters are 4.61, 4.60, 5.24, 5.74, and 5.52, with the extra innings going to the worst of that crew, the difference between Burnes and Wheeler looks less important. The other issue is that this article refers only to FIP, not xFIP, and the difference between Burnes and Wheeler in xFIP is much less (2.30 vs. 2.84, a difference of .54, as opposed to the .96 difference in FIP). This is presumably because Burnes has a really low HR/FB% (6.1%, as opposed to Wheeler’s 10.8%). If xFIP rather than FIP is considered and the rest of the pitching staff isn’t very high quality, I could definitely imagine preferring to have Wheeler as opposed to Burnes. The question is whether Burnes’ HR/FB% is luck or the product of something about his pitching. To be sure, Burnes’ contact data (24.8% hard-hit) suggest that he should have a low HR/FB%–but on the other hand, Wheeler’s contact data are even better (22.4% hard-hit), so it’s difficult to see how Burnes’ 4.7% lower HR/FB% is due to something about his pitching which is superior to Wheeler’s.

uptheirons
4 years ago

This is all academic. Who votes for the CYA? Not Fangraphs writers and readers. Julio Urias is the only 20 game winner in baseball 20-3, 2.96 ERA, 195 Ks. All solid to great traditional stats. He did it for a team that won 106 games despite the injuries and Bauer situation. That’s a great storyline. CYA voters are sportswriters, after all.
Yes, DeGrom won with 10, and 11 wins, but he was head and shoulders above the competition. Burnes was great, but not that much greater than Scherzer, Buehler, Woodruff and Wheeler. No NL pitcher has won 20 since 2016. In that year, Porcello won because of his 20-win season. Many would argue that the voters have evolved since then, but 20 wins does have a cachet that a sub- 2.00 FIP does not, that a 33% K rate does not. It’s a good round number traditionally used to denote an ace. It doesn’t require math, doesn’t require an understanding of analytics. There has been a definite reaction against analytics among the BBWAA — see the Baines and Morris HOF election. The old guard has not died off yet. Don’t be surprised if Julio gets the award.

arandomguyontheinternet
4 years ago

“No starter with 100 innings pitched had a lower ERA than Burnes this year.”

Ranger Suarez is a starting pitcher with over 100 innings with a better era than Burnes. Dark horse Phillies candidate coming from the opposite direction!

frankMember since 2016
4 years ago

Correct, Ranger pitched 106 IP with a 1.36 ERA. He was extremely lucky (3.21 xERA), but still an amazing story …. Looking forward to seeing his projections next spring.

arandomguyontheinternet
4 years ago
Reply to  frank

Definitely lucky…especially with that defense.

darren
4 years ago

“About those home runs: it’s comical how few Burnes allowed. The seven he surrendered work out to 0.38 homers per nine innings, the best mark among starters with 100 innings pitched (limiting statistics to qualifying pitchers in this season of light workloads undersells how thoroughly Burnes trounced the competition). Only Miami’s Trevor Rogers came close — and among other Cy Young contenders, Burnes sticks out like a sore thumb:”

Limiting to starters eliminates Ranger Suarez, who gave up just 4 HR in 106 IP (1 in 65.2 as a starter). Suarez also had a better ERA and RA/9. than Burnes. There are, of course, good reasons to differentiate between starters and relievers in such comparisons. Starters have to pitch effectively for longer spans within a game and they have to withstand a larger workload over the course of a season. So it would be unfair to compare Suaraz’s rate stats Burnes’s.

Unfortunately, the same argument applies to comparing Burnes to Wheeler, to a lesser but still important degree. As aptly demonstrated by earlier posts, Wheeler pitches deeper into games meaning that a) he has to conserve energy/pace himself in early innings and b) he faces a lineup for the 3rd and fourth time far more often than Burnes does. And he also to hold up to more appearances and more total innings over the course of the full season than Burnes does.

All of this makes for an interesting debate, not the slam dunk that you’re presenting in the article. Similarly, I cannot imagine we will be talking about this among the best pitching seasons ever…. ever.

darren
4 years ago

To match Wheeler’s ERA and IP, Burnes would have to pitch an additional 46.1 IP at a 4.07 ERA. That’s hard to do–4.07 is lower than the league average ERA. Only 27 NL starters who threw 100+ IP were able to do that. Considering this difference a tiebreaker sounds like a bad idea.

ichiro262Member since 2024
4 years ago

It’s called the Cy Young Award, not the “most valuable pitcher award” or the “best pitcher award” or the “ace-iest pitcher award” or the “pitcher you’d want for a one-game playoff award”. Cy Young led the league in Innings Pitched and ERA twice each. He led the league in FIP 7 times. Corbin Burnes is Cy Young. I rest my case.

uptheirons
4 years ago
Reply to  ichiro262

Cy Young is the all time leader in Wins and innings Pitched.
He led the league in wins 5 times.
So by your test, Wheeler or Urias is Cy Young.

He gave up 19 HR in 1894 — 3% of all HRs given up in MLB that season.

ichiro262Member since 2024
4 years ago
Reply to  uptheirons

The Cy Young award is a single-season award, not a lifetime achievement award. He’s also the career leader for losses and earned runs, so if we were going in that direction then Patrick Corbin would be a better Cy candidate.

Also, 7 is more than 5, so it still seems like Burnes’ FIP title is a better qualification.

On a side note, Cy Young led the league in BB/9 a whopping 14 times(!), so Nathan Eovaldi should probably win the AL Cy. But Burnes is still the best pick for the NL.

Spahn_and_Sain
4 years ago
Reply to  ichiro262

Great point! Split the difference and give the CYA to both Corbin and Burnes!

Ball in Glove
4 years ago

This post will not provide snazzy stats. It is looking at the game logs of Burnes vs Wheeler. I get the feeling from the pro-Wheeler extra IP camp that giving your team the best chance to win is what a SP should do.

Starts with =4 earned runs allowed – Burnes = 5 or 15% of his starts, Wheeler = 9 or 28% of his starts

Burnes clearly gave his team more solid opportunities to win games and fewer opportunities to lose (shutdown vs blowup starts).

I think Burnes is the clear winner of the Cy Young based on the rate stats and the results listed above.

Olinkapo
4 years ago
Reply to  Ball in Glove

Starts with = 4+ earned runs allowed
Burnes = 5 or 15% of his starts
* Burnes Innings Pitched in Those Starts:
6.0, 6.0, 5.33, 5.0, 4.0

Wheeler = 9 or 28% of his starts
* Wheeler Innings Pitched in Those Starts:
8.0, 7.33, 7.0, 6.66, 6.0, 6.0, 6.0, 5.66, 5.66

rob71
4 years ago

A few things missing from the article:

1. He tied the record for most strikeouts in a row (10 against the Cubs with no worse than a 2-2 count on 41 pitches and not allowing any walks for the game)
2. Set a record (later surpassed by Gerrit Cole) by striking out 58 straight batters without allowing a walk
3. Pitched 8 innings of a combined no-hitter
4. SIERA tries to take a further step than FIP by attempting to quantity the types of balls-in-play and show why the pitcher is successful; Burnes leads in that

https://library.fangraphs.com/pitching/siera/

1. Burnes: 2.61
2. Scherzer: 2.90
3. Cole: 2.93
4. Wheeler: 3.18
5. Ray: 3.22
.
.
13. Urias: 3.64
.
.
19. Buehler: 3.73

idliaminMember since 2024
4 years ago

In a just world, where hope and joy weren’t merely illusions to distract ourselves from our dystopian hellscape, we wouldn’t be having this debate. Instead, Jacob deGrom would have been healthy all year, and we’d be debating whether he (and his, I dunno, 11+ WAR?) should also be the unanimous MVP, and whether his utter dominance during what’ll likely be a relatively short career should make him a HoFer.

However, let’s say that we didn’t live in Hell, and Jake had made 10-12 more fully healthy, typical deGrom starts, and finished with roughly the same innings total as Burnes (who, coincidentally, was Jake’s final mound opponent of the season, on July 7th), I wonder how the quality-versus-quantity debate would go. I can see both sides with Burnes vs. Wheeler, but 2021 deGrom was SO much more dominant than everyone else, that I’m curious whether that difference would make a difference, if you will.

chewbaccaMember since 2019
4 years ago

Dang, you GOTTA love this stuff! It keeps blokes like me off of the streets and doing something somewhat productive😎. Relativity and quantum mechanics were the baseball analytics of the 20th century. If Schrodinger, Maxwell, Heisenberg and the other Albert had these metadata, we’d have a unified theory of physics. Someone would have even determined how life evolved from non living matter.