Fernando Tatis Jr. and the Padres, Together Forever
In 2021, Fernando Tatis Jr. is one of the Padres’ brightest stars. In 2031, he’ll presumably also be one of the Padres’ brightest stars, because he just signed a 14-year, $340 million extension to remain in San Diego, as Dennis Lin and Ken Rosenthal first reported.
That’s a lot of years, and a lot of money, and don’t you worry, we’ll have some ZiPS projections and some calculations of dollars per WAR and an explanation of how the arbitration system impacts this deal. First, though, here’s Tatis having fun:
With that important message out of the way, let’s get down to business. Tatis is one of the best players in baseball right this minute, and he turned 22 a month ago. When he broke into the majors in 2019, he truly broke in. His .317/.379/.590 line was scintillating, and also too short; a stress reaction in his back limited him to only 84 games.
What he did in those games also felt like it might be fleeting. That batting line is spicy, but it was buttressed by a .410 BABIP. Tatis hit the crap out of the ball — his 12.8% barrel rate and 115.9 mph maximum exit velocity were both elite — but no one runs a .410 BABIP forever. Statcast’s xBA, which estimates batting average based on angle and exit velocity, pegged him for a .339 BABIP. xwOBA, which estimates wOBA based on the same data, thought he was a good but not great hitter.
Why the negativity? His strikeout rate was a scary 29.6%, he didn’t walk enough (8.1%), and the granular metrics made those look real. His 15.6% swinging strike rate was the 13th-worst among players who batted as much as he did, and none of the hitters below him on the list had the same kind of success. He also struggled defensively, though mainly with errors — he certainly looked to have the range to stick at shortstop.
In 2020, Tatis basically printed those last two paragraphs, wadded them into a paper ball, and hit them 600 feet to the opposite field. He got better at everything — legitimately, everything! — and did it in a way that looks sustainable. The strikeouts? He slashed them from 29.6% to 23.7%. The walks? Up from 8.1% to 10.5%. He chased less, made more contact, and cut his swinging strike rate to a respectable 12.5%.
Remember that excellent 12.8% barrel rate? His 19.5% barrel rate in 2020 was not only the best mark in the big leagues, but also the ninth-highest mark ever posted (minimum 150 batted balls) in the Statcast era. The guys in front of him? Joey Gallo (twice), Aaron Judge (twice), Miguel Sanó (twice), Giancarlo Stanton, and Nelson Cruz. Five of the biggest boppers in the majors, and a shortstop. Preposterous!
Amusingly, the only thing that fell off was that unsustainable BABIP. In 2019, Tatis delivered a .410 BABIP off of an expected .339 mark. In 2020, his BABIP fell to .308, but his expected BABIP rose to .358. That’s right — Tatis significantly underperformed his underlying batted ball output in 2020, and still managed a 149 wRC+.
Oh yeah, his defense got much better too. He was the second-worst defensive shortstop of 2019 per Statcast. In 2020, he was tied for the best. Even if you don’t quite believe the magnitude of that move, both DRS and UZR had him going from below average to above average, largely by committing fewer errors.
Before 2020 went all pear-shaped, ZiPS projected Tatis for 3.1 WAR. It also gave him a No. 1 comp of young Alex Rodriguez, so it was clearly a believer, but he’d only played a year in the major leagues, and the strikeouts were a concern. He nearly hit that 3.1 WAR projection — in a 60-game season. This year, ZiPS is drinking the Kool-Aid:
| Percentile | BA | OBP | SLG | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | SO | SB | OPS+ | WAR |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 90% | .299 | .385 | .640 | 455 | 97 | 136 | 25 | 8 | 38 | 112 | 58 | 113 | 43 | 172 | 7.1 |
| 80% | .292 | .378 | .605 | 456 | 96 | 133 | 24 | 7 | 35 | 107 | 57 | 122 | 34 | 162 | 6.4 |
| 70% | .290 | .374 | .581 | 458 | 94 | 133 | 23 | 7 | 32 | 100 | 55 | 128 | 29 | 155 | 5.9 |
| 60% | .288 | .370 | .558 | 459 | 92 | 132 | 22 | 6 | 30 | 98 | 54 | 133 | 28 | 148 | 5.5 |
| 50% | .284 | .365 | .547 | 461 | 89 | 131 | 22 | 6 | 28 | 94 | 52 | 136 | 24 | 142 | 5.2 |
| 40% | .284 | .363 | .530 | 462 | 89 | 131 | 21 | 6 | 27 | 92 | 51 | 142 | 25 | 141 | 5.0 |
| 30% | .280 | .357 | .513 | 464 | 88 | 130 | 20 | 5 | 26 | 89 | 49 | 148 | 21 | 133 | 4.5 |
| 20% | .277 | .353 | .495 | 465 | 87 | 129 | 19 | 5 | 24 | 87 | 48 | 154 | 19 | 128 | 4.2 |
| 10% | .269 | .340 | .465 | 469 | 86 | 126 | 18 | 4 | 22 | 82 | 44 | 165 | 16 | 116 | 3.4 |
Players who hit the majors at a young age tend to improve in their first few years, but not like this: his 10th-percentile forecast for 2021 is higher than his median forecast in 2020. He simply improved so many things that he already looks like one of the best players in the game, and he’s still only 22.
And ZiPS projects Tatis to remain near the top of the game for years to come:
| Year | BA | OBP | SLG | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | SO | SB | OPS+ | DR | WAR |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2021 | .284 | .365 | .547 | 461 | 89 | 131 | 22 | 6 | 28 | 94 | 52 | 136 | 24 | 142 | -2 | 5.1 |
| 2022 | .289 | .373 | .584 | 450 | 93 | 130 | 23 | 7 | 32 | 102 | 54 | 140 | 23 | 155 | -2 | 5.8 |
| 2023 | .290 | .377 | .588 | 452 | 95 | 131 | 22 | 7 | 33 | 105 | 57 | 144 | 23 | 157 | -2 | 6.0 |
| 2024 | .288 | .379 | .608 | 451 | 97 | 130 | 22 | 7 | 36 | 109 | 60 | 150 | 22 | 163 | -2 | 6.3 |
| 2025 | .287 | .379 | .605 | 443 | 96 | 127 | 22 | 7 | 35 | 108 | 60 | 148 | 22 | 162 | -3 | 6.1 |
| 2026 | .291 | .384 | .626 | 433 | 96 | 126 | 21 | 8 | 36 | 109 | 60 | 141 | 22 | 168 | -3 | 6.3 |
| 2027 | .292 | .384 | .625 | 421 | 93 | 123 | 21 | 7 | 35 | 106 | 58 | 130 | 20 | 168 | -4 | 6.0 |
| 2028 | .295 | .388 | .636 | 407 | 90 | 120 | 20 | 7 | 35 | 105 | 56 | 123 | 20 | 172 | -5 | 6.0 |
| 2029 | .294 | .385 | .637 | 391 | 86 | 115 | 18 | 7 | 34 | 100 | 52 | 116 | 18 | 171 | -6 | 5.5 |
| 2030 | .291 | .379 | .615 | 374 | 79 | 109 | 16 | 6 | 31 | 92 | 48 | 106 | 17 | 164 | -7 | 4.7 |
| 2031 | .287 | .371 | .590 | 356 | 71 | 102 | 15 | 6 | 27 | 82 | 43 | 96 | 15 | 156 | -9 | 3.9 |
| 2032 | .282 | .362 | .558 | 326 | 62 | 92 | 14 | 5 | 22 | 70 | 37 | 83 | 12 | 146 | -10 | 2.9 |
| 2033 | .278 | .353 | .495 | 299 | 53 | 83 | 12 | 1 | 17 | 57 | 31 | 71 | 9 | 128 | -11 | 1.6 |
| 2034 | .270 | .340 | .456 | 274 | 45 | 74 | 10 | 1 | 13 | 46 | 25 | 60 | 6 | 114 | -13 | 0.7 |
That’s nine consecutive years of projections above 5 WAR, and it’s actually more absurd than that. Take a look at the numbers, and you’ll notice he never projects for even 500 at-bats. If you think he’ll get to 550 on average, that’s an extra 1.5 WAR per year. I’m not saying 550 is a reasonable assumption — he’s yet to play a full season, and everyone gets hurt once in a while — but the point is that the rate of production ZiPS forecasts is Trout-ian.
The projected OPS+ numbers for mid-20s Tatis are staggering. The last shortstop to approach that level of consistent production was A-Rod. The last one before that? Literally Honus Wagner. You could make arguments for young Nomar Garciaparra or Rogers Hornsby when he moonlighted at short, but the fact that I have to reach back before integration for similar levels of production should tell you how ridiculous he is.
Some of that comes down to the fact that better offensive players are playing shortstop these days, but that’s only a tiny part of it. The world isn’t awash with hitters this good, let alone hitters this good who can actually field. Up-the-middle defenders who hit this well at this young an age are unicorns.
What does a unicorn cost? A billion dollars if you ask Silicon Valley, but $340 million in baseball. The 14 years of Tatis’s contract replace one year near the league minimum, three years of arbitration, and 10 years of free agency. To think through what the Padres have done here, we’ll have to think our way through those arbitration years and see what we have on the other end.
The first-year arbitration record is $11.5 million, set by Cody Bellinger after his MVP 2019 season. To that point in his career, he’d accrued 15.4 WAR, but more importantly for the baseball-card-stats driven process, he hit .278/.368/.559 with 111 home runs and 292 RBI to go along with that MVP award. If Tatis hits his projections for this year, he’ll take a .294/.370/.567 line into arbitration, but with only 67 homers and 192 RBI due to his curtailed playing time.
If he has an MVP award, he’ll likely have exceeded those numbers, which puts him in position to exceed Bellinger’s number — but he likely won’t have an NL MVP award, because they only give one of them out per year. Gambling odds place him at around one in eight to take home that particular trophy in 2021. Something along the lines of $10.5 million is a more reasonable estimate.
That second year of arbitration? The record there was also set by a reigning MVP — Mookie Betts got $20 million after his scintillating 2018, and he also conveniently received $10.5 million the year before. It would be foolhardy to project Tatis to reach those heights, though. Betts hit a what-c’mon-stop-lying .346/.438/.640 en route to 10.4 WAR in 2018, while we project Tatis to be coming off a .289/.373/.584 season. Francisco Lindor received $17.5 million with worse offense but better defense (and more playing time) than Tatis projects for, so let’s use that number.
Finally, there’s his last year of arbitration to consider. Betts received $27 million, besting Nolan Arenado’s $26 million. We’re off into speculative territory here, but that sounds good enough to me — $27 million it is. That works out to four years and $55.6 million, but that’s probably the high end. Arbitration relies on precedents, and it would be hard for Tatis to make significantly more than that, but players sometimes underperform their projections (shocking, I know). To account for that possibility, let’s lop off an unscientific $5.6 million and say that Tatis projects to earn about $50 million over the next four years (Kiley McDaniel arrived at the same estimate last month).
If that’s what the Padres expected to pay in exchange for four more years of Tatis, that means that this deal covers 10 new years and $290 million in new money. With ZiPS projections for those years in hand, I can tell you that the math works out to $6.6 million per projected WAR, a phenomenal rate for the Padres; it’s less per win than they paid Manny Machado, and they had to include a player option in his deal to sweeten the pot.
Does that mean I think that this deal is unfair to Tatis? Not at all. He might be receiving less for his services than a projection system thinks he should expect to make in four years, but he’s also getting it right now. Going through arbitration and hitting free agency would likely carry greater rewards, but there are also plenty of ways it could go wrong; heck, that back injury was less than two years ago.
It’s also extremely speculative to talk about the 43.7 WAR that ZiPS thinks Tatis will accrue from 2025 through 2034 when he’s compiled 6.5 WAR in his career so far. What he’s done at such a young age is nearly unprecedented, which explains the exuberant projections, but you can hardly blame someone for taking a Scrooge McDuck-level pile of money after 143 major league games. He could even ask for it in coins if he wanted to — I’m sure the Padres would oblige.
If Tatis posts a 4.5 WAR season this year, it would barely be a disappointment. But it might stunt his arbitration payout, and given that arbitration considers previous performance, there could be a cascading effect of shortfalls. And baseball might not be in the same financial place when he reaches free agency. Perhaps a CBA-related shutdown will change the nature of compensation. This is simply a safe decision to take a ludicrous sum of money.
Are the Padres losing out, then? Hardly. They’re essentially betting on math. Hitters this good this young don’t often flame out; 15 hitters have posted a 140 wRC+ or better through age 21 in at least 600 plate appearances. Nine are Hall of Famers, which might sound low, but that doesn’t count Shoeless Joe Jackson, Mike Trout, Albert Pujols, Juan Soto, or Tatis. The only player who hit those highs and faded away was Hal Trosky Sr., who accrued 29.1 WAR from 1933 through 1940 before his career was undone by debilitating migraines.
More specifically, the Padres are betting that talent and production stabilize quickly, or at least that the risk of failure isn’t particularly high. Could Tatis get hurt? Sure. Could he underperform for a year or two, which could have saved them some money in arbitration? Sure. If he plays as we expect him to, however, the Padres would hand him his arbitration money and then need to pay more for his free agency years. In essence, they’re fronting the risk of some unlikely tails in exchange for a discount on a long-term superstar.
If I can take off my analyst hat for a minute and put on my baseball hat (wow, that was convenient), I think this is a tremendous deal for everyone involved. Tatis got a life-changing contract that didn’t feel icky in the way that Ronald Acuña Jr.’s (or especially Ozzie Albies’s) deal did. This isn’t a contract that will make people cry foul about the unfairness of MLB’s economic model, and that’s unquestionably a good thing in my eyes. Arguing about whether Tatis should get $340 or $360 million is never going to be a compelling way of looking at the finances of the game, and that’s all to the good.
The Padres locked up a core piece and guaranteed a little certainty to do so at a discount. In doing so, they continued a blockbuster winter that solidified their ascent to one of the most exciting teams in the game. With Tatis in tow, they’ll remain exciting for years to come. The most dynamic player in the game, arguably the face of baseball, is now one of the highest paid players. There’s simply no way to look at this deal and come away disappointed — unless you play in the NL West or wanted to sign Tatis in four years. For people thus affected — sorry. For everyone else, it’s a great day.
Ben is a writer at FanGraphs. He can be found on Bluesky @benclemens.
In my dreams, I see Ted Williams & Tony Gwynn imitating Snoopy’s “Happy Dance” at this announcement; good for baseball, great for “Slam Diego!”
Biggest news coming out of Petco Park since, well, you know….
Man, your profile pic is something else.
Nice article, but you forgot to mention the name of his agent.
This is the straw that broke the camel’s back — I’m now officially a bandwagon-jumping Padres fan.
“Sorry we signed Eric Hosmer when you said not to, Cameron. Here’s something to make up for it.”
“The Padres locked up a core piece and guaranteed a little certainty to do so at a discount. ”
14 years and $340m is, “a little certainty”?
Cost certainty, yes. Performance certainty, t’aint such a thing.
You think a baseball blayer DESERVES $340 million? I suppose it is better than ownership hanging on to it.
Absolutely. He plays a popular sport at an elite level. People like you and me are willing to pay a lot of money and give up a lot of time to see him play. That generates a lot of money that will go somewhere and he is among the most deserving of it.
If you can figure out how to redirect the money to schoolteachers and paramedics instead of to baseball players, that would be better. Otherwise, deservingness rhetoric doesn’t make a lot of sense here.
@sadtrombone You’re really claiming that returning to the tax rates on the rich of the late 1930s through early 60s, of 91% nominal and 55% effective rates, is difficult to “figure out”?
There’s something that doesn’t make a lot of sense, here, and it isn’t the OP.
Wait till you see what Messi gets paid.
*Hint if you guessed 4 years $669m you’d still be too low.
Based on the revenue the sport generates, of course. I would like to see the players’ union insist on more pay for minor leaguers and younger arbitration eligible guys, though. The pay scale is way out of whack.
$168,980,000 is what Tatis will net after taxes. And that doesn’t consider what his agent will pull in. Cost himself a lot of money by signing in CA
Handle checks out
lol. thought experiment: if your screen name is john rocker-positive is there any chance you could come up with a reasonably articulated analytically-driven comment that wouldnt get downvoted?? discuss.
No, this site has become over run by the sjw/cancel culture type
Weird, I thought it was more that FG comments had a no-jerks culture.
I’ve been trying to change my handle for a while now. Not sure you can. Didn’t know Rocker did anything bad until recent. I just enjoyed watching him play as a kid and am admittedly terrible at naming things. Should’ve just said Kenny Lofton since he was my favorite player as a child but oh well
https://plus.fangraphs.com/my-account/edit-account/
Unless I’m missing something, should be able to change your display name there.
Can confirm, just did it now to test.
This display name is longer than I expected, but it is a fun one, so I’ll keep it, at least for now.
I love talking about states that have low or no income tax. It really is a great week for making that point.
Texas is certainly reaping the benefits.
California isn’t exactly able to keep the lights on
It’s all well and good but TX has super high property taxes instead of income taxes, it’s just a different tax strategy. Also, neither tax has anything to do with utilities. But you could still push big-government agenda in that direction if you wanted.
Doesn’t really have anything to do with this week, just like California’s lack of property tax for people (or their parents or grandparents) who bought houses cheap back in the day doesn’t have to do with their power issues. In either case, the expenses would end up increasing electric rates, not property or income tax, whether for a public, heavily regulated cost plus, or deregulated utility. Indeed, it’s the reluctance of the regulatory bodies to approve increases for ratepayers that prevents California’s grid upgrades as much as Texas when it comes to requiring effective insurance against weather events. (Things like logging to remove tinder or regulations against sprawl could also help, but aren’t expensive budget items and don’t require much in the way of taxes; the former is even profitable. CA could also stop keeping insurance companies from charging the true rate of fire risk to discourage building in dangerous eras, they do that for the same reason they don’t allow the rate increases.)
An interesting side conversation for me is the impact of the Tatis deal on companies like Big League Advance and their business model. Tatis traded a portion of his earnings for some up front security years ago, and this big of a payday is a real success for BLA and the many minor leaguers they invest in who don’t eventually make the majors.
Im still unsure on BLA as an organization. BLA isn’t some minor league advocate organization, it’s baseball’s version of angel investing. The model has some merits given the broken state of minor league wages but baseball shouldn’t be putting players in a position to need BLA’s money. The choice to accept BLA money should be based entirely on a players risk tolerance, not the fact they can’t afford to continue their training and live in the US without it because wages are so low in the low minors.
Also unsure why Tatis would take BLA money when he had an $800k signing bonus and his dad made big league money.
I would say this is a good deal for the Padres and a phenomenal deal for Tatis. The only comparison to this that we have is Acuna’s extension. Now, Acuna’s extension was too low, but Acuna’s extension is literally one-third of this.
The Padres win here too, since odds are they are getting him at a bit of a discount, but teams can much better absorb the low but real risk that Tatis injures himself so badly he can’t play like that again than the player can. But Tatis should be super-happy with this.
Think about it this way–if Tatis hit the free agent market as a consistent, 5-6 win player (which ZiPs basically agrees with) he’s going to get, what, $350M? $400M? If that $290M number is right (and it seems about right, maybe a shade low) then Tatis is trading $50-100M off his median outcome (which would make him approximately the 3rd-highest paid player in MLB) for the security that if he breaks every bone in his body he will be approximately the 10th-highest paid player in major league baseball.
The gap between this contract and Acuna’s is just staggering…
Albies obviously isn’t quite as good as acuna/tatis but that was staggering too, both need way better agents
I would have thought “market value” for a guy like Tatis or Acuna would be in between the two contracts. But when you look at Tatis’s contract it is a deal that makes sense for both sides, even if it clocks in a bit higher than I expected, while Acuna’s deal was about half of what I would have considered fair.
In a lot of free agent deals additional years are added to essentially lower the AAV. Harper is not going to be worth his pay when he is playing at age 40. One of the biggest strengths of this deal is that it gets all the great and good years and leaves out the fast decline. That’s worth a lot.
But really the deals shouldn’t be compared apples to apples. Acuña was 6 years from free agency. Tatis was 4 years from free agency. Acuña also still has his age 31-35 seasons to sell and if he’s really good and salaries keep going up, it’s not unreasonable to envision Acuña actually making more money in the end than Tatis.
Expecting Acuña to get 5 years, $240M ($48M AAV) going into his age 31 season is unreasonable.
The Albies and Acuna deals are embarrassing for MLB. Acuna gave up 4 FA years with AA winning the biggest bluff of his life by saying the team couldn’t get to the $100m Acuna wanted unless they had the 2 option years.
Braves would have been over the moon to get Acuna without the options on a straight 8 year $100m. And Acuna would have retained a boat load of earnings power by hitting FA at 29 not 31.
Dodgers vs Padres shaping up to be the new Yankees vs Red Sox. We really haven’t had that sustained rivalry on the west coast where BOTH teams were legit WS contenders. And it looks set to last for years!
This deal is fascinating on many levels. The widening gap between superstar contracts and other contracts is really, really concerning to me. Did anyone besides George Springer or J.T. Realmuto get more than two years this offseason? (Sorry – Bauer’s deal is 2 years in my mind) Teams are unwilling to take 4-5 year risk for anyone other than a perennial all-star, and are unwilling to take long-term risk for anyone other than a top-5 player in the game. The latter makes sense (there are so many unknown variables over a 10+ year time-frame) but the former is very concerning. So I guess I’m glad for Tatis Jr. and concerned for what this means for long-term labor at the center of baseball. (Does anyone think it will be good for clubhouses if half of teams have a long-term, $30M/year player and then a bunch of 1-2 year contracts?)
mccann got 4/40 and la stella got 3/18. mccann is a part time catcher and la stella has never had more than 400 PA in a season. there might be others but those two are definitely not stars and received multi year deals
Yes, agreed… I was being hyperbolic and could have been more accurate… but that’s four contracts of more than two years handed out in a single offseason. I wonder if there has ever been an offseason with so few 3+ year contracts or extensions handed out. AAV right now is in line with expectations, but contract length is very, very short.
You would need to look at the with FA quality and age included to draw any meaningful conclusions. This FA offseason didn’t have many good, young players.
It also ignores the extension market, which has become the unicorn private equity role w/in baseball. Also, with the pandemic shortened season, it’s tough to say whether this is a new pattern, or an outlier.
Lemahieu, Ozuna, Profar, Hendriks, La Stella and McCann all got at least 3 years. Certainly, the vast majority of the deals were 1-2 years, of course.
I’m not sure I see the issue with the shorter term contracts for non-elite veterans, though. They seem to be beneficial to both sides, which is why they keep getting signed. Generally speaking, we should expect teams to pay more in AAV to limit contract length and, therefore, long term risk. If that’s agreeable to both sides, I’m cool with it. In contrast, I think there’s still room for longer term deals at lower AAVs that work for both sides. Lemahieu and Aaron Hicks’ deals with the Yankees both look very much like that kind of deal to me. To a lesser extent, the Nationals deals with all their deferrals seem to work well enough for both sides.
Long-term contracts (call it 5+ years) often favor the player, greatly. There are exceptions, and Ozzie Albies head-scratcher deal will surely be one of them. By and large, though, over the life of long-term contracts, more players fail to provide true excess value than do provide true excess value. For a rough approximation of “true excess value,” one has to believe (as I do) that WAR is far from linear in terms of value, but rather is exponential, and that years of 1-2 WAR are worth far less than $8M/win especially at high-supply positions like corner OF and 1B, and especially given the incredibly low minimum salary for pre-arb players and the typical 1st and even 2nd year arb-salary.
I agree with you that “we should expect teams to pay more in AAV to limit contract length and, therefore, long term risk. ” Outside of a few deals, I don’t see that happening. Outside of the top, top contracts, we’re seeing shorter deals and similar AAV’s rather than shorter deals with higher AAV’s. I admittedly have not run data to prove it, but I think we’re also seeing position players with <2 WAR being devalued significantly. The free market component in me thinks it's a good thing that payroll is being optimized and that teams are realizing how bad mega-contracts often work out, and that <2 WAR players at many positions may, statistically, be replaced by minimum contracts. The consumer in me sees a future where I'm paying more and more for baseball each year while labor gets less of the pie (or where the pie is concentrated in a smaller number of labor-hands), which I think is bad for the long-term economic viability of the sport.
These are opinions, not facts, obviously, so your mileage may vary.
I agree with all of this, especially that 1-2 WAR players are not valued at anything near $8M/win. It’s weird and disheartening how all the context has been stripped away from that figure and how widely it continues to be misused.
DJ LeMahieu got 6 years, albeit at a low AAV.
Teams are finally realizing that have been paying much too much for a player’s declining years and will be attempting to recognize who their cornerstone players in the future are going to be, then signing these young players to long term extensions. If, as has been speculated, the MLBPA is going to be attempting to get to free agency sooner then that provides the owners much more incentive to tie up the core players with early career extensions. This deal may be the one that opens the flood gates to a rush of similar contracts. I am not talking about the modest deals with the likes of Singleton, Kingery, or White and definitely not the grotesque underpays that Acuna and Albies took but realistic deals which I think this one is. No one can look at it honestly and think that Tatis has been short-changed. There is lifetime security for the next 100 generations of his family and a few million more is not worth the risk of a career ending event. It has several distinct benefits for the teams also. Assuming the projections are correct, and the player performs as hoped which is, of course, the team’s risk, then total cost, over the player’s career, is down. That provides cost certainty and dramatically improves future planning. There is a non-financial benefit that I really approve of and that is providing team stability. As a dedicated Red Sox fan, one of the best parts of it was that the heart of the team, the stars, played all of their career with the Sox. Ted Williams was a constant during my early years, then came the dark ages, 1961-1966, followed by the Impossible Dream team of 1967 and the rise of Carl Yastrzemski, then Jim Rice, who played 100% of his games, and Dwight Evans who played 19 of his 20 seasons with the Red Sox. They were soon followed by Jason Varitek and, once he arrived he took over New England, the incomparable David Ortiz. Fans want, and need, these bulwarks to build their loyalty and attachment to the team. I hope these types of deals proliferate because I believe the present system is flawed. teams are pressured to bring great players up when they are around 20 but then are at risk of losing them just as they are entering their prime. Why not pay Fernando Tatis, Jr. 340 million at age 21 if you believe he is the player he is instead of losing him after his age 25 season? Is there risk, there is risk every time he goes on the field, but the odds favor the bold and that is a gamble where the odds are strongly on the side of both.
That’s just the reality of the current system. With most players hitting free agency at around 31-32, it just doesn’t make sense for teams to commit to paying for a players decline years, especially when the better orgs are able to develop their own 2 win players that make the league minimum
Your comments make sense to me and, also, to some degree, reflect the economic distribution in America. The haves continue to do quite well, the have nots, not so well.
Ok, I saw the title and I was expecting to get Rickrolled by the end of the piece!
“…feel icky” Who wrote this article, a 15 year-old girl?
I don’t agree with your phrasing but I am weirdly bothered by the term ‘icky’ when writers could just use ‘uncouth’ or really anything that fits the general tone of writing on this site better.
A garage? Ooh lade da a garage…
What do you call it Moe?
A car hole!
I have a hard time seeing $50 million as a reasonable estimation for Tatis going through arbitration. I feel like he’d need to win two MVPs to make that happen and that seems possible but unlikely. First, he is on the service time clock that allows for the least amount of playing time. Most guys have that extended first year that doesn’t count toward getting you to arbitration, but those numbers do count. Then, he missed half of 2019. 2020 is supposed to be prorated, so that won’t hurt him, but he is still looking at 2.5 seasons of playing first time through, then 3.5, 4.5, barring injury, when the guys who were setting records were mostly at a full season more when they set those marks. Then of course you add in that arbitration doesn’t even really reward position scarcity and defense the way it should, and I can’t see a reasonable estimation going above $40 million. My guess is this is how it was negotiated, too. $40 million for the team control years and then 10/$300 million for free agency years.
I think he’d see closer to 60 mill in arbitration, a lot of his comparatives got close to that. The one interesting factor is if the MLBPA actually grows a pair and is able to stave off 1 year of arbitration to let players hit FA earlier that is even more of a team friendly deal
Who? Who has gotten close to that in three years of arbitration while missing half a season?
Don’t know why this is downvoted, the $50M projection is clearly on the high end. The estimates the author uses are barely below the all-time records for each arb year.
Excellent point about the arbitration estimates. The extension estimate at $40 million for a 4 year buyout, and then 10 years at $30 million per year seems quite reasonable . Personally, I would not take on 14 years of upfront risk for a player with MLB experience of 143 games, even one with a start as great as Tatis. The best indicator of the future value of Tatis will come in the next season or two, as teams adjust to him, and he adjusts to the league. And for Preller to make a 14 year commitment without waiting at least another season seems unnecessary to me. But the uncertainty of upcoming CBA may have motivated both sides to make a deal now.
There might not have been a better time. Wait a season and you’re dealing with new comps from Lindor, Seager, Story, etc. If only one of those deals sets a salary precedent and even if Tatis merely has an All-Star caliber year, rather than play at MVP level, it’s likely the Padres would have to pay a lot more for a shorter contract, if Tatis would even have been willing to talk extension at that point, what with arb kicking in and free agency tantalizing close. Imagine Tatis actually improves in 2021 — his entire professional career indicates that’s possible. The Padres would likely have lost the chance to extend him at all. It’s like life and poker. No guarantees. Always some risk. But the Padres are shoving their chips with probability in their favor.
Are there any opt outs in the deal? If not, that is a huge miss by the agent.
He also got a no trade clause, which probably doesn’t have a lot of value in dollars but certainly has some psychological benefit. I’m curious to know how the money is structured/deferred–a lot of the big deals recently have had substantially lower NPV, so Tatis may have done even better than it initially seems. (Or maybe the full contract details emerge and he has lots of deferred money, too).
Edit: also, to be a homer for a minute, Soto is not ready to cede the title of best/most exciting young player in the game to Tatis Jr. just yet. After all, Soto’s got the best 5 year WAR projection in baseball….
Soto is not exciting in the way Tatis and Acuña are. Argue about best, but no way is Soto more exciting.
I think watching Soto hit like Ted Williams is pretty damn exciting, but to each his own.
Acuña is exciting to watch at the plate, on the bases, and even in the outfield (especially if he’d use a slightly bigger glove). Same with Tatis, though less so on the bases and more so in the field.
I know you’re just being a self described homer and Soto is an amazing player, but there’s a reason Griffey got his own baseball game and Frank Thomas hawks boner pills. All-around athleticism with lots of dingers is what most excites most fans.
Tatis is a pretty exciting on the bases. He’s scored from first on a single, scored from second multiple times on an infield single, successfully tagged up from third on pop-ups to second base multiple times, scored from third on a simple come-backer to the pitcher, successfully executed body-contorting slides as if he were in the Matrix, and generally plays with derring-do that requires fans to keep their eyes on him at all time. It’s this type of play that I think garners all the “most exciting” talk. I’d admit it doesn’t necessarily mean better, but it’s so much fun!
To me, Soto is the most exciting baseball player I’ve ever seen. But Acuña and Tatis certainly qualify as exciting too. Just my opinion. #JuanSotoThings.
It’s most exciting, not best. The main skill differences between Tatis/Acuna and Soto are speed and defense vs. plate discipline. Which is more exciting to most people, watching walks or watching stolen bases and diving catches?
It’s going to be really fun watching the two of them and Acuña battle it out for that distinction.
*mike trout kicks the dirt at his feet…*
“mookie betts looks on…*
If offense is your thing head and shoulders above everything else, yeah Soto’s pretty special. First player since Bonds’ final year in MLB to crack the .480 OBP he put up that year (let that sink in for a second…man Bonds was good).
If great offense from a guy who’ll also deliver highlights from a premium position are your thing, then yeah, Tatis and Acuna will probably excite you more. And if you like seeing unbridled joy and a player who looks like he truly loves what he does thrown in the mix, it’s hard to beat Tatis.
Great news though: we can and do have all 3!
I think Soto is the most charismatic player on the field and his enthusiasm and flare are palpable. The fact that his coaches, teammates, and scouts say he has off the charts baseball analytical intelligence is, I think, of particular appeal to a fangraphs audience. Very exciting to see this young crowd play, but it’s clear which one you want to watch when he’s up to bat.
Saw a tweet saying there is no deferred money in the deal. Unless it’s crazy backloaded (and we should note it does include a 10M signing bonus), Tatis’ deal is even better than it looks relative to the other 300M+ contracts. Good for him!
Amen!
James Shields says, “You’re welcome!”
Wouldn’t be the first time I heard him say that.
Under appreciated comment.
A great thing for baseball. I am happy for Tatis, the Padres, and the sport. Tatis has potential to become a true ambassador for the sport that we haven’t seen since Griffey. With that said, I’m going to put those contract years out of my mind because this deal has made me deal with crippling existentialism.
I love watching Tatis play and am happy for him, but am skeptical of this deal from the Padres’ perspective for similar reasons to Blackmon/Arenado extensions.
The most obvious alternative to ‘doing A today’ is not necessarily ‘not do A’, but rather ‘doing A tomorrow.’
The question is what kind of performance/extension could the Padres have received if they waited one more year?
Put it bluntly, if the Padres offer Tatis take-it-or-leave-it $340M/13 year extension at the end of this upcoming season, would Tatis accept it?
Anything short of Tatis winning the MVP, probably.
And even if he did, the price wouldn’t increase by that much.
However, the chances of Tatis underperforming, possibly due to injury/bad luck, and decreasing the price tag seems to be much higher in my opinion.
Of course, all business deals are risky and that also includes ‘choice to wait.’
But given my admittedly subjective assessment on the upside/downside of making this deal vs. waiting on it, I think Padres would have been better off waiting at least another year.
This was my initial thought as well. In some ways, it does seem like an unnecessary risk when they could wait a year or two and possibly sign him to a very similar deal. However, the more I think of it, I think the price is about right and now is the time to pull the trigger. As Ben mentioned, these projections are all built off of 450 AB seasons. I think averaging 550 ABs is pretty reasonable and that brings the price per win paid way down. Along those lines, it’s not all that unreasonable to think Tatis couldn’t put up a 650 AB, 7+ win season this year. If he did, that probably nets him another $50 M over the course of the deal. Lastly, salaries are down across the board. This is a whole ‘nother conversation but the Padres very well may be buying at a low point in the market. Not a bad time to sign a long term deal.
I upvoted both of you and now I don’t know which side to take. Good debate here.
So funny. I posted my own disagreement with the “team should have waited” post and yet I agree with you. Really good debate.
Completely disagree. Waiting another year might have made this deal impossible. New comps from star shortstops about to hit, plus new labor deal/possible business disruption make waiting extremely risky. I’d put the odds of those factors preventing a similar deal greater than Tatis regressing in performance or suffering a significant injury.
Since I have written two comments in support of the Padres acumen here I will respond. Where is the doubt about Tatis’s level of play? There is absolutely none! He is already #6 on the MLB Top 100 list. Trout got $426.5 M but that will run until he is almost 40. Betts $385M contract ends a week before his 40th birthday. The Padres are not paying for these late career years which will likely be worth far less than the 22-35 period of Tatis’s deal. Hindsight makes it clear that the Red Sox should have offered Betts something similar to what Tatis just received after his 2016 season when it was obvious to even Ray Charles that Mookie was a amazing player, as well as the face of the team. To take that further, there is still a lot of doubt whether Betts would have signed any long term contract with the Red Sox. If the Sox had made such an offer the cloud that has hung over their efforts to sign him or trade him would never have existed. If he passed on such an offer then the curtain would have been removed and the truth would have been revealed. Those are my ideas which make me think this is a great move by the Padres. If we accept that Tatis is on the same level as Betts, Trout, Soto, and Acuna then the Padres were certainly not wrong in making their move now. What could be gained by waiting, pocket change and a miniscule lessening of the risk involved, neither of which amounts to a hill of beans when an opportunity like this comes along.
The Padres have handled Fernando Tatis exactly the way they should to maximize his long term value to the franchise. This should be the goal of every team but it hasn’t been! Everyone only has to look at the nasty relationship that has developed between Kris Bryant and the Cubs to see that playing the service time game is a ridiculous way to develop trust, form a solid basis from which to continue and most certainly puts an additional strain on any and all future negotiations. The Padres did not play any games with service time and built a relationship that has manifested itself in the Padres locking in one of the generational talents of our time for the heart of his career. The Padres bucked this pervasive trend in baseball and treated Tatis professionally then did not wait 6 years, or even 4 or 5, to begin negotiations but perhaps using nothing more than the back of an envelope, that is all that is needed, figured out what Tatis would be worth over the course of his career and made him an offer that, while probably a little less than absolute maximum value, is eminently fair to Mr. Tatis. The odds favor the Padres getting full value but they are the ones taking the risk.
Wow, what a payday!
It almost makes me wonder if they looked up the record for Grand Slams in an inning (or RBis in an inning) and thought the “Jr.” had been left off like often happens with Cal Ripken.
It’s odd to hear so few analysts mention in other than passing the two 6-week periods Tatis, jr., missed in 2019.
Accurate comps will explicitly look at young players and other, similar cohorts who missed multiple significant periods to injury, particularly injury notorious for recurring.