Finding Comps for Other Signature Pitches
Yesterday, inspired by a morning chat participant, I drew some parallels between Felix Hernandez‘s changeup and Henderson Alvarez’s changeup. While Felix’s changeup is better than Alvarez’s changeup, in terms of its effectiveness, the actual pitches themselves aren’t too different; the pitchers just have different levels of command of them. I made use of the Baseball Prospectus PITCHf/x leaderboards to calculate good comps for Felix’s changeup, and Alvarez’s change came out in the lead by a wide margin. I considered just average velocity, horizontal movement, and vertical movement, and then I used z-scores to come up with a comparison rating.
I found the exercise fun enough to try again today. Yesterday, I found that Alvarez’s changeup is the best comp for Felix’s changeup, and Felix’s change is a signature pitch. How about some comps for some other signature pitches? That’s what you’re going to find below. Granted, I’ve selected just five signature pitches, and there are a whole lot more of them. That part of this was subjective and kind of random. But, there’s no turning back now. Those pitches examined:
- Clayton Kershaw’s slider
- Adam Wainwright’s cutter
- Sonny Gray’s curveball
- Cole Hamels‘ changeup
- Aroldis Chapman’s fastball
I considered 2014 only, and I compared just righties to righties and lefties to lefties, and starters to starters and relievers to relievers. I set a minimum of 50 pitches thrown, of the given pitch type. Remember that this isn’t necessarily giving you comparisons of pitch quality; just, pitch characteristics. This just looks at averages, so it doesn’t consider variability in velocity or movement, nor does it consider command. In some cases, a good pitch is compared to a good pitch. In other cases, not so much. But the results, at least, are interesting and fun. One last note: for comparison purposes, I combined sliders and cutters, because they’re thrown similarly and sometimes they’re hard to separate. Onward!
In the final column, comparison ratings. The closer to 0 a number is, the stronger the comp. The comparison rating is the sum of the z-score differences in velocity and both kinds of movement. Okay.
Kershaw slider
| Pitcher | Pitch | Velocity | Horizontal | Vertical | Comp Rating |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Clayton Kershaw | SL | 88.1 | 1.9 | 4.3 | – |
| Franklin Morales | CT | 87.6 | 0.7 | 3.6 | 1.1 |
| Felix Doubront | CT | 87.1 | 0.5 | 4.3 | 1.2 |
| Jon Lester | CT | 88.8 | -0.3 | 4.5 | 1.5 |
| David Price | CT | 87.9 | -0.7 | 3.7 | 1.7 |
| C.J. Wilson | CT | 88.5 | -0.9 | 4.5 | 1.8 |
(In the original version of this post, I made a calculation error in this section. That has been resolved! Sorry, Jorge de la Rosa!)
Kershaw:
Morales:
You see Kershaw getting compared to a lot of cutters. It’s kind of a cutter-y pitch, because of the velocity with which it’s thrown. By strictly slider labels, the closest comp belongs to Mike Minor, with a 2.0 comparison rating, which isn’t a comparison at all. Morales’ cutter is of interest, because it’s new-ish. Obviously, it’s not as good as Kershaw’s slider, at least as a component of his broader repertoire, but it used to be Morales threw a slider in the mid-80s. He was mostly fastball/curveball/offspeed. Last year he morphed the slider into a faster cutter, and the usage rate skyrocketed. So that’s a promising(?) thing about Franklin Morales. Franklin Morales remains a free agent!
Wainwright cutter
| Pitcher | Pitch | Velocity | Horizontal | Vertical | Comp Rating |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Adam Wainwright | CT | 87.3 | 3.3 | 4.6 | – |
| Yu Darvish | CT | 89.2 | 3.3 | 4.4 | 0.7 |
| Josh Tomlin | CT | 86.3 | 2.8 | 4.9 | 0.7 |
| Anibal Sanchez | SL | 87.6 | 3.6 | 3.3 | 0.8 |
| Andre Rienzo | CT | 87.7 | 2.6 | 4.1 | 0.8 |
| Trevor Bauer | CT | 87.3 | 2.6 | 3.4 | 0.9 |
Wainwright:
Darvish:
A big difference between Wainwright and Darvish: Wainwright threw his cutter about 30% of the time. Darvish, about 11%. Darvish, see, has almost too many pitches to choose from. It’s both the burden and the luxury of surplus. Tomlin, meanwhile, threw his cutter about 31% of the time, and despite his ERA, he generated some mighty encouraging peripherals. His cutter missed bats more often than Wainwright’s did. However, it also yielded a much higher slugging percentage. So Tomlin, perhaps, was more mistake-prone, but perhaps that’s also too simplistic. I don’t know!
Gray curveball
| Pitcher | Pitch | Velocity | Horizontal | Vertical | Comp Rating |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Sonny Gray | CU | 82.5 | 9.2 | -5.4 | – |
| Carlos Carrasco | CU | 81.3 | 6.7 | -5.4 | 1.7 |
| Marcus Stroman | CU | 83.5 | 8.9 | -2.2 | 1.7 |
| Jenrry Mejia | CU | 78.6 | 9.6 | -4.6 | 1.9 |
| Jose Fernandez | CU | 83.6 | 9.0 | -1.8 | 1.9 |
| Mike Leake | CU | 80.4 | 7.3 | -6.2 | 2.0 |
Gray:
Carrasco:
It’s not a real strong field of comps. I mean, the pitches themselves are good, but you’ll notice the comp ratings are weaker than in the previous tables. In that way, Gray has a more unusual curveball, and he certainly likes to throw it. He threw curves with more than a quarter of his pitches, making it his primary non-fastball weapon. Batters swung and missed a third of the time they tried to offer. Of note: between years, Gray kicked up his average curveball velocity by almost two ticks. He added an inch to the horizontal movement, and he reduced the vertical drop by three inches. Gray turned a good curveball into a sharper curveball, in other words.
Hamels changeup
| Pitcher | Pitch | Velocity | Horizontal | Vertical | Comp Rating |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Cole Hamels | CH | 85.0 | 9.2 | 6.2 | – |
| J.A. Happ | CH | 86.0 | 9.3 | 6.4 | 0.6 |
| Martin Perez | CH | 84.9 | 8.4 | 6.5 | 0.8 |
| Wandy Rodriguez | CH | 83.9 | 8.7 | 6.5 | 0.9 |
| Madison Bumgarner | CH | 84.4 | 8.3 | 5.7 | 1.1 |
| Joe Saunders | CH | 82.4 | 9.2 | 6.4 | 1.1 |
Hamels:
Happ:
Remember what I said about how this isn’t necessarily providing comps in terms of pitch quality? Yeah. Here’s the best indication of that. On average, Happ throws a changeup that’s very similar to Hamels’ changeup, but he throws it less, and it’s more inconsistent, and the command is inferior. Because Happ is inferior, see. But you see the promise, and with Happ’s rising velocity, you can understand why he was thought to be an offseason sleeper within the game. Hamels, by the way, threw 23% changeups. Happ, a little over 9%. Perez, 16%. Rodriguez, 14%. Bumgarner, 7%. Saunders, 13%. In this post, you see a comparison between Cole Hamels, the pitcher, and Joe Saunders, the pitcher.
Chapman fastball
| Pitcher | Pitch | Velocity | Horizontal | Vertical | Comp Rating |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Aroldis Chapman | FA | 101.2 | 3.7 | 11.1 | – |
| Danny Duffy | FA | 96.6 | 4.0 | 11.7 | 2.5 |
| Mike Dunn | FA | 95.9 | 4.5 | 10.6 | 2.9 |
| Justin Wilson | FA | 96.3 | 5.4 | 11.3 | 3.1 |
| Nick Hagadone | FA | 95.6 | 3.3 | 12.4 | 3.4 |
| Tim Collins | FA | 93.2 | 3.8 | 11.2 | 3.5 |
Chapman:
Duffy (as a reliever, not a starter):
Yeah, so, there’s nothing like it. Not that you needed to be told, but there is no good current comparison to Aroldis Chapman’s fastball. Not among lefties, not in the bullpen. It’s probably the game’s most extraordinary pitch, and this is why no one could touch Chapman’s changeup when he messed around with it last summer. Who can even think about a changeup when this is in a pitcher’s back pocket? Aroldis Chapman’s fastball is stupid. No, that’s not quite right. Let me try that again: Aroldis Chapman’s fastball makes all the other fastballs look stupid. Much better.
Jeff made Lookout Landing a thing, but he does not still write there about the Mariners. He does write here, sometimes about the Mariners, but usually not.










Great article, Jeff. Would love to see more like this, maybe one about Koji’s splitter?
As long as we’re making requests, I say hop in the time machine and compare somebody to Mariano.
RA Dickey’s knuckl…oh
I would love it if for the rest of this offseason, and the offseasons ahead, that this was a weekly article. I don’t know why, but there’s something satisfying about seeing JA Happ compared to Cole Hamels in some light (other than both being left handed starters and both being in the major leagues).
Is it possible to do this with hitters potentially too? Maybe less so, and perhaps less interesting, but looking at swing speed, swing plane, that sort of thing?
Unfortunately we don’t have that information. With pitchers, PITCHf/x makes it entirely too easy.
There wasnt a better example of a Cole Hamels changeup?
that’s literally the best one
Based only on the comps, Hamels may want to consider tweaking his changeup.
what this tells me is that Clayton Kershaw is totally wasted on LA’s horrible CF camera
Had to make a correction in the Kershaw slider section, so the post’s been updated. Replacing Jorge de la Rosa: a different 2014 Rockies pitcher.
* Clayton Kershaw‘s slider
* Adam Wainwright‘s cutter
* Sonny Gray‘s curveball
* Cole Hamels‘ changeup
* Aroldis Chapman‘s fastball
Put it all together and the resulting pitcher would be almost as good as Pedro Martinez was in his prime.
Kerhaw’s probably just about as good as Pedro in his prime. Not quite, because that was a hitter’s era, but pretty close.
Pedro’s best years: 11.9 WAR in ’99, 12.2 RA9 WAR in ’00
Clayton’s best years: 7.2 WAR in ’14, 8.8 RA9 WAR in ’13
Pedro’s best 3-year span: 27.6 WAR in ’99-’01, 30.3 RA9 in ’98-’00
Clayton’s best 3-year span: 19.2 WAR in ’12-’14, 23.5 RA9 in ’12-’14
quit messin’ with my brand, yo
Lol what?
The Bucco fan in me was hopin to see some Liriano slider/change and Morton curveball in here
I wonder if Happ worked on his changeup with Cole from their time together in Philly
My thought too. They are both lanky lefties who came up together in Philly, but Hamels has a less compact delivery, which likely allows the change to play up.
I know he throws the cutter more, but I’ve always thought of the curve as Wainwright’s signature. Not that they cutter isn’t great, but the curve is one that makes me sit back and just say ‘holy crap’.
Same with Kershaw.
That was my first thought on both of them as well.
Yeah I was really surprised, and kind of disappointed, to not see either of their curves.
What about comps for the various eephus pitches? Alvarez was already covered for his changeup, but you’d have to assume he’s up there too.
As a totally biased Blue Jays fan, what was most interesting to me in this article was the similarities between the curveballs of Stroman and Fernandez. Stroman’s curve really seems like more of a slurve, as outside of the velocity it looks a lot like his slider.
I know Fernandez’ breaking ball, nicknamed “The Defector”, is more of a hybrid pitch than a traditional curveball, too, so it’s very interesting to see the two so close in terms of velocity and movement.
When you did this exercise, what were the minimums for IP? Just qualified starters/relievers?
I’m wondering how Ken Giles’s fastball compares to Aroldis Chapman’s.
“I considered 2014 only, and I compared just righties to righties and lefties to lefties, and starters to starters and relievers to relievers. I set a minimum of 50 pitches thrown, of the given pitch type.”
Thanks, missed that.
Well, for the purposes of this article, they are quite different, as they move in different directions along the horizontal plane. I don’t have the baseball prospectus numbers, but the fangraphs numbers are as follows:
Chapman: 100.1, 4.3, 11.0
Giles: 97.2, -4.7, 9.9
It seems Giles is closer to a right handed Mike Dunn more so than a right handed Chapman.
I asked Mr. Sullivan on Twitter, but could someone help explain the comp rating/z-score business? I’m trying to do some calculations but I’m getting very bizarre numbers. If you could use the Chapman fastball table as an example it would be greatly appreciated!
Does the BP database go back far enough that you could compare Chapman to Joel Zumaya in his prime?