Fitting Eric Hosmer in San Diego
On Monday, the Red Sox agreed to terms with first baseman Mitch Moreland. It was meaningful news, for two reasons. One, this is the Red Sox we’re talking about, and it seems like everything the Red Sox do is always big news. But then, additionally, Moreland electing to re-sign would appear to take the Red Sox out of the running for free agent Eric Hosmer. And while I’m certainly not Hosmer’s agent, the market for his services apparently isn’t large.
It could get larger. Scott Boras will work hard to make it larger. It’s possible to see a team like, say, the Mets throwing their hat in the ring. Yet the Red Sox move increases the chances that Hosmer will stay in Kansas City. It also increases the chances that Hosmer will go to San Diego. The Padres, so far, have been the most closely-linked suitor. They seem deeply motivated to turn Hosmer into a part of their core. The Padres haven’t won more than 77 games since 2011.
It’s been a while since the Padres were good. It might still be a while until the Padres are good. Right now, they’re tentatively projected at 71-91, with no single player projected for 3 WAR. This past season, three teams from the Padres’ division made the playoffs. The season before, the fourth other team made the playoffs. What hope the Padres have is almost entirely tied up in the farm system. It is thought to be terrific. The Padres have done an impressive job of restocking, but it’ll take time until that translates into more major-league wins. I don’t think that could be questioned.
This is why Hosmer would feel like a weird investment. I don’t know if he’ll sign for $120 million over six years. I don’t know if he’ll sign for $175 million over eight years. I don’t know if he’ll sign for more than that. But what we know is that Hosmer is a free agent, and he’s going to get a huge guarantee. And as with virtually every free agent, you’d expect Hosmer’s best years to come at the front. Those are the seasons in which we can be least confident the Padres might be competitive.
You expect big-money free agents to sign with good teams. Those are the teams that can make the best use of them. Yet Hosmer might not have that choice to make. It’s possible he’ll end up choosing between a rebuilding situation in Kansas City and a rebuilding situation in San Diego. The Padres could be poised to offer more money. And this wouldn’t be an unprecedented outcome. Barry Zito signed with a Giants team coming off a 76-win season. Zack Greinke signed with a Diamondbacks team coming off a 79-win season. Robinson Cano signed with a Mariners team coming off a 71-win season. Jayson Werth signed with a Nationals team coming off a 69-win season. And, of course, Alex Rodriguez signed with a Rangers team coming off a 71-win season. Those contracts aren’t all success stories, not from the team perspective. But these things have happened before. Hosmer could be San Diego’s Werth, installed in advance of the competitive turn.
Just to re-state things: That still doesn’t seem efficient. Hosmer’s best years could go to a team in fourth or fifth place. Beyond that, Hosmer plays the same position as Wil Myers, the Padres’ only current long-term contract. Myers is capable of playing the outfield, but he hasn’t been very good at it before, and a position move could mean the exit of Jose Pirela. I don’t want to get too far into the weeds. The Padres’ organizational future doesn’t depend on Jose Pirela playing every day. But Hosmer isn’t even an obvious fit.
You probably already understand that Hosmer, as a player, is fascinating. I think too much is made of the perceived conflict here; even the advanced numbers think Hosmer was legitimately good in 2017. He was also legitimately good in 2015 and in 2013. I’m comfortable declaring that Hosmer is an above-average everyday player. He’s more athletic than the average first baseman, and as much as Hosmer’s game has hinted at a higher ceiling, he’s fine as is. Swings like this suggest Hosmer could turn into a force:
But even without any further development, Hosmer projects for a 121 wRC+. He’s coming off a 135 wRC+. Over the past three seasons, Hosmer ranks in just the 2nd percentile in terms of productivity to the pull side, but he ranks in the 68th percentile going back up the middle, and he ranks in the 98th percentile going the other way. There are similarities to, say, Christian Yelich and Joe Mauer. Hosmer is a good hitter who teases that he could be a great one.
At some point, you stop thinking about potential. Hosmer’s already batted more than 4,000 times in the majors. Yet this is where there’s another point in his favor — he turned only 28 at the end of October. Hosmer might still be entering his prime. Short of that, his decline could be several years off. Rare is the quality free agent who hits the market at Hosmer’s age, but it does open the door to somewhat unconventional suitors. The Padres could choose to think about Hosmer’s 2020, while paying him a couple years before that.
Big contracts always happen one at a time, and so, generally, they’re evaluated in isolation. It’s important to always keep the bigger context in mind. For the Padres, I think this evaluation would be mixed. They’re in position to have a lot of future financial flexibility; only Myers is on the books long-term, so their current 2019 commitments total $22.75 million. The Padres anticipate drawing a lot of their future value from arbitration and pre-arb players. But in recent years, the Padres have also topped out at a payroll of roughly $108 million, and you could have Myers and Hosmer earning more than 40% of that. Both Myers and Hosmer look to be good enough, but neither is a superstar. A Padres team with hopes of contending would need to be extremely efficient with what money it would have left.
If that means ownership would okay a higher payroll, that would be good news. Inefficiency doesn’t matter so much if you just have more money to play with. It’s just, the Padres will never be the Dodgers. Not in terms of what they can spend. The Dodgers can afford to make worse investments. The Padres have already hitched themselves to Myers, which makes proper evaluation of other commitments all the more critical.
Lastly, because it’s talked about too often to ignore, Hosmer is frequently credited with possessing strong leadership skills. He’s been the heart of the clubhouse in Kansas City, and he emerged in the national spotlight during the World Series runs. I don’t doubt that Hosmer has been one of the leaders of the Royals. What we don’t know is whether those traits are “sticky,” so to speak. A leader of one clubhouse might not be a leader in another. The Padres have a whole different group of players, players Hosmer hasn’t played alongside with for years. The Padres and Hosmer haven’t developed together, and interpersonal dynamics are never so easy to forecast. Maybe it helps that Hosmer has already seen one rebuild all the way through. Maybe he could help to guide the Padres, with his experience. Or maybe it wouldn’t work like that at all. Hosmer would definitely be the highest-paid player in the clubhouse. He could be respected, or he could be resented. Teams need leaders, but good luck knowing who the leaders will be.
The more I think about Hosmer, the more I feel like one of the “high guys” on him. I think he’s worthy of a lengthy commitment, and I think there’s upside in there, even beyond what Hosmer has already done. I’m encouraged by how hard he sometimes hits the ball, and I suspect his above-average athleticism will afford him a more graceful decline. That all being said, Hosmer, for me, falls short of being great, and the Padres as a suitor have two qualities that make them atypical. They’re a smaller-market operation, and they’re probably at least a couple years from being competitive. You don’t expect a team like that to wade in these waters. If the Padres were to end up with Hosmer, it would put that much more pressure on the farm system to churn out cheap and quality major-league talent. If the Padres could surround Hosmer and Myers with enough talented youth, there would be a contender, there. They’d just need to hope that the youth would come quickly, or that Hosmer’s decline would not.
Jeff made Lookout Landing a thing, but he does not still write there about the Mariners. He does write here, sometimes about the Mariners, but usually not.
With the Padres projected for roughly a 70 million dollar payroll I’d feel a lot better about hosmer contract if it was structured 35-30-15-15-15-15 this would make hosmer relatively cheap when the Padres really are ready to try to compete, he’d get 6/125 million which seems reasonable. If ownership did sign off to this idea as a Padres fan that doesn’t want hosmer I’d be fine with a deal like that
I was going to say something similar. A front loaded contract and/or one that gives a significant signing bonus makes a lot of sense.
Come July 2019, if Padres feel they still aren’t going to be in a position to win in 2020, they can try to unload Hosmer at the deadline or that offseason. Unless he implodes, shouldn’t have much trouble finding at least neutral money/prospect trade to unload him and if he is able to keep wRC in the 130’s, could even get a nice haul for him
And then of course if they do look like can compete in 2020, part of it is probably because Hosmer played well and then they can reap a below market salary on him from 2020 through end of contract
You realize the Padres could just “eat” the extra money when they want to trade him, right? If we’re distributing the 6/125 in some way, it’s smarter to delay payments as long as possible.
Now if we’re willing to adjust the 125M for NPV, then sure, there’s a chance that frontloading the contract makes sense for the Padres (if Hosmer overvalues the present value of a dollar)
While you are mathematically correct, i don’t think PV is the main decision criteria here. The Padres would want to front load the contract while they are paying everyone else (except Myers) minimum wage and then have the flexibility to pay arbitration and/or free agents when they are good (hopefully) in a couple of years. This way they won’t have to “eat” any salary; something they may not be able to do anyway because, as JS mentions in the article, they need to be hyper efficient with their spend in order to be competitive as a small market team.
yes but instead of paying Hosmer 10 extra million in the first year to save paying him that amount in a following year, they can just pay him the average amount, pocket the extra money, and let that money make extra money for them rather than Hosmer. I’m not sure you’re talking about the same PV as I was.
I’m pretty sure they’re not allowed to “pocket the money” without paying corporate income tax on it. Which more than washes out any npv gains.
Except that’s not how for-profit companies, including baseball teams, operate. They operate on annual budgets. So, maybe the Padres figure they can break even or make a little scratch fielding a bad team with Eric Hosmer on it for the next two years. Then when, hopefully, they are better, they can increase the budget in anticipation of the higher revenues that come from fielding a competitive team. So, in the early years, you pay Hosmer $30-MM or $40-MM on a total budget of $90-MM and then when the prospects are ready, the Padres can pay Hosmer $15-MM to $20-MM on a budget of say $150-MM (I don’t think the Padres ever sniff the salary cap) which gives them the flexibility to sign expensive free agents or to trade for veterans.
Well, not all baseball teams operate that way. Some seem to have that use-it-or-lose-it philosophy that other organizations have. Some, however, are perfectly content to hoard money when the team is young and spend it later when you are good. The cyclical approach is easily the better model but I’m getting the sense that a lot of teams do not operate that way.
If you have an owner who is finicky and operates on a strict annual budget then yes, you should front-load the contract. But if not, you’re always better off shoving money off into future years.
I could see the argument that it makes sense to frontload a risky player like Hosmer into a period when you have no competition for the money so hes less likely to hamstring you if he declines at the end.
Certainly the Matt Kemp contract would be a better asset if he was paid more early and less now in that fashion.
The Real McNulty is absolutely correct. People in various discussions keep treating MLB teams as if they’re NFL teams, where front-loading a contract makes sense because later on you might push up against a salary cap. But there isn’t a salary cap in baseball and the Padres are nowhere near the luxury tax. If a player has a back-loaded contract, the team can earn interest on the money saved. That’s the same concept behind deferred payments. A front-loaded contract would only make sense if teams were not allowed to pay down part of a contract in future trades.
Just don’t try to NPV with a hilariously high expected rate of return like the Mets. Only 18 more celebrations of Bobby Bonilla day to go.
Bobby Bonilla day might be the most entertaining part of being a Mets fan these days.
this makes sense only if Hosmer places a higher value on present money than the Padres do.
PV > FV
For equal sum of payments. The question is always how much more are you giving me later for not giving it to me now.
Bobby Bonilla’s people made the right decision on that FV.
“what we know is that Hosmer is a free agent, and he’s going to get a huge guarantee”
Do we for sure know that, though? We know Boras is often good at coming up with last-minute suitors to juice up a stagnant negotiation, and we know Hosmer probably deserves it, but it does kinda seem like a thin market for his services.
I wonder if they trade Naylor if Hosmer signs. Maybe we see a notable prospect-for-prospect swap. What’s Hosmer’s in game power rates at? A 60? Capable 1B bat, but in that park is that who you want at first? If they are looking to do something at 1B they should sign LoMo, allow him to accrue value and flip him at the deadline.
If Eric Hosmer has 60 game power, then Stanton and Judge have 120 game power.
Hosmer is sitting at 10 fWAR in 7 mostly full seasons. Talk of $175mm is patently absurd, and would go down as another Boras albatross.
I am 95% sure that if Hosmer gets anything like what Boras is asking for the team is going to seriously regret it.
Sure, but what’s really interesting to me is that the declining number of suitors along with the slow market may actually indicate that teams are resisting the Boras pitch here. It only takes one organization to cave and ruin things, but it would be nice to see teams hold the line and pay Hosmer appropriately.
FWIW, I really like what little I saw of Jose Pirela when the Padres came to Cleveland. A lot of solid contact and line drives; I’d much rather have him on my roster than Hosmer.
As a Reds fan, I can confirm that he looked anecdotally good. He had a two homer game against the Reds and I remember asking someone ‘who the hell is this Pirela guy?’ Turns out he went something like 14-32 against them in two series’.
Now – A LOT of dude wore out Reds pitching last year. But he looked legit.
As a Padres’ fan, my question is “Why the rush?” I expect management to understand this better than I, but why eat 2-4 years of productivity for seemingly no meaningful impact on playoff participation probability? It is the first question by the author and most readers and I still don’t have an answer. I guess it would be that they see him to be the best FA fit coming in the 2-4 years? Myers does not hit well enough to occupy 1B, so getting a 1B who does makes sense. But really the best fit over the next few years? Studious minds can create and assess that list but seems like a surprising outcome to me.
Why don’t we ever hear about potential Wil Myers trades? He’s not on an absurd contract and he’s still young, but he’s a weird fit for the Padres in terms of salary & window. I would think if they called up the Rockies and offered to solve their first base problem in exchange for McMahon they would at least think about it.
Cause he aint good
The whole thing is puzzling. It makes me wonder if the rationale is that some FA spending makes future FA targets feel like the team is serious about winning. Not to say that’s a sound approach to team building, but maybe San Diego feels like they’ve got more to spend on the FA in the years ahead. That seems to be the rationale offered for the Phillies signing Carlos Santana, and Werth before that, IIRC.
Everybody says they love and watch baseball here, i can’t tell. Just watch the next 2 seasons of Padres baseball and you will be proved wrong. Take your cherry picked stats and shive them up your ass. We won over 70 games last year with the 2nd lowest scoring offense…some of you cant see why this is awesome and shows a winning future…and for those people i do feel truly sorry…keep “watching and loving” baseball you non thinkers
Over 70 games? Wow
Check what vegas projected us for and now look at our actual record…you all are a bunch of cogs so i dont expect for you to know this…you see how it was one of the best in the league??
What was one of the best in the league? Your record? Has this comment already been translated by the guy below?
I see…your main problem is being illiterate
Yeah, I have no idea what this dude is raving about.
I like to imagine he’s the real AJ Preller letting his personality out since he can’t talk to his fellow GMs anymore.
“talk to his fellow GM’s” we have made several trades…so if there is anything is not making sense…it would be idiotic comments that don’t even have a quip undertone…do better…just wait til Farhan Zaidi doesn’t have a job…I guarantee Preller will be here long after you guys fire that FF.
“Check what vegas projected us for and now look at our actual record”
it is really amazing nobody understand this simple concept that transcends all sports…LOL
His point (I think) is that the Padres beat their projected record by more than just about anyone–that’s what he means by “best in the league.” I don’t put any stock into that and I doubt many here do, but at least there is a coherent ought there.
that’s great you don’t put any stock in it…that’s why casinos own people like you. Or that’s why you don’t sports gamble because you would suck major ass
This might actually be _really_ good satire/trolling. Apparently casinos own people who think that past results (especially those based on highly random processes) don’t guarantee future outcomes. That’s (potentially) really funny!
Everyone loves baseball and look here, I can’t tell. Just watch the next two Padres baseball season and prove it to you. I have your statue from the Commission, and to get them out of your ass. Last year, we have won more than 70 games with the second lowest score…, some I can’t see why the great and projection into the future … conquest, as well as for those of you I really … “search and” like baseball not to assume
Maybe your prop plane has flown up your ass?
I can’t help but think that Boras really overplayed his hand here. I know it’s customary in bargaining to overprice your product, and it only takes one buyer to bite, but front offices are getting smarter every year. If your initial asking price is a joke it will turn off potential buyers, and Boras’s reported pitches have been jokes.
You don’t think front offices were buying much stock in “prestige value” that he was pushing?
Or that Hosmer delivers playoff appearances to any team he’s on, disregarding the fact that he’s only been on one team and 4 out of his 6 seasons his team hasn’t made the playoffs (including the most recent two seasons).
People say this every year, and it usually doesn’t work out that way.
Teams are usually savvy enough to only care about the contracts that end up being signed, not the initial asking prices.
Under the new CBA, are the first ten picks in the amateur draft still protected from being used as compensation for a free agent with a QO? If so, this might be helping the Padres justify bringing in Hosmer while they are still solidly in rebuild mode.
Of course, they might also be spiffying up their team’s appearance in time to try to lure a certain upcoming free agent to take his talents to an MLB city close to his Vegas hometown.
No one loses their highest draft pick anymore. The most you can lose is your second highest, then third for another signing, etc.
I guess I don’t see the appeal for SD, unless he comes at a rational contract term and AAV. I know we can do the math on dollars/WAR, and then generously decide last year will be what’s he’s going to perform at for, say, the next four years, but how much of a difference does that really make to this particular team? Part of this is my bias against spending $20+ million on a 4 WAR player–is he really going to be a difference-maker? Maybe, if you have a 90 win team. But SD isn’t
Seems like the potential albatross — owing Hosmer $100M for 4 years when he’s a replacement level player — is the kind of thing small payroll teams should be incredibly adverse to.
“Hosmer was legitimately good in 2017. He was also legitimately good in 2015 and in 2013.”
“The Padres could choose to think about Hosmer’s 2020, while paying him a couple years before that.”
How very Padres it would be, to eyeball that off year in the middle of his pattern as their target.
Perhaps Hosmer could fix the Giants odd year struggles.
Hosmer’s year-to-year WAR swings are nuts: 1, -1.7, 3.2, 0, 3.5, -0.1, 4.1. I guess he’s due for a terrible year next year?
Whichever team is dumb enough to sign Hosmer for the money that ******* Boras is trying to extort for him will have just acquired the next Pujols.
It’s definitely a mistake for the Padres, forcing their only somewhat non-stinko player to switch positions (excluding Margot and Hedges’ glove). But it would be a mistake for anyone to sign this player. When you sign a free agent the point is you’re buying an expectation of a certain level of production. What is one buying with Hosmer? His 2017 production? Real value there. His 2016 production? Barely worth a roster spot. I don’t see why anyone would be interested in a gamble like that. Something is weird with Preller, and I’m a SD fan. 3 years in and this is his next big move? And ownership extended him? sigh…
With all I have read over the past few weeks I was beginning to think that Eric Hosmer was being projected to hit .225/.290/.333 in 2018 and play first base like Dick Stuart. Maybe I am wrong but I think he is a lot better player than Chris Davis, yes that Chris Davis, he of the $161M/7 contract, or Wil Myers, or even the latest version of Miggy. At last somebody is actually putting, in writing, that Eric Hosmer is a good player and 5 years at 20M per year is easily a fair value.