Freddie Freeman Might As Well Play Third Base
It’s difficult to overstate how much Freddie Freeman means to the Braves. He is, at present, the face of the franchise, and rather than trade Freeman, his general manager would sooner give his right arm. It’s not just that Freeman’s the best player on the Braves — Freeman is the Braves, for all intents and purposes. Although he isn’t Mike Trout, he’s the Braves’ Mike Trout, and the Angels aren’t going to trade Mike Trout. They’re going to cherish him, feature him, build around him, promote the hell out of him. The Braves have been going through a difficult stage. Freeman’s helped to keep them marketable.
Freeman’s great. He’s gotten some amount of MVP support in three separate years. He’s long been firmly entrenched as the Braves’ everyday first baseman, and there was never really any question about that. That is, until now. As soon as Freeman got injured, the team dealt for Matt Adams. Adams started to hit well almost immediately. Now it looks like a healthy Freeman could play third base in order to keep Adams in the lineup. What’s even weirder is, I think it makes sense?
Here’s a little video of third-base Freeman taking grounders and making throws. Freeman last played third base for five games in the Gulf Coast League in 2007. This tweet says Freeman wants to play third. We can also let Freeman speak for himself:
Freddie Freeman is serious about playing third base, saying that he originally suggested shifting to the hot corner to the Atlanta Braves a few weeks ago.
…
“I mentioned it and said I’d be willing to move over to third base to accommodate Matt, who’s been pretty spectacular for us,” Freeman said. “It really happened yesterday when I was walking to the field.“I said I’m completely on board with it, want to do it,” he said. “We got to keep Matt’s bat in the lineup, and I’ll do anything to win. So this is what we came to.”
It’s all fairly startling. Any midseason position switch is unusual, and it’s almost unheard of to have this taking place with someone as established as Freeman is. Because of Freeman’s standing, he could, if he wanted, put his foot down and insist on staying at his position. He’s more or less earned that right as the best player on the club. But this goes beyond Freeman being open-minded. This was seemingly Freeman’s idea. That’s an important point, and we’ll come back to it.
One thing we all need to acknowledge is there aren’t really stakes, here. Although the Braves aren’t horrible, they’re also not good. They’re nowhere close to first place in their division, and they’re even less close to occupying a wild-card spot. This year’s Braves aren’t going anywhere, so this isn’t going to make or break the season. The idea is to just be more competitive. Give the fans a little something extra. Go for 78 wins, instead of 75.
Is there an enhanced injury risk? My gut says, yeah, a little bit, just because, for Freeman, third base is less familiar. But there’s also a lesser chance of rolling an ankle on the bag, and third basemen don’t have to deal with so many baserunners. So maybe the injury risk is the same, or lower. It’s not a meaningful factor to me.
And what if Freeman suffers for taking on too much? This is where I think it’s relevant that Freeman came up with this idea himself. He’s volunteered to learn a new position, and although we can’t say for sure, I don’t know why we’d think this would have a negative effect on Freeman’s hitting. Freeman, before, was already splitting his time between offensive work and defensive work. Now he’s just changing sides of the infield, and although third base has its own idiosyncrasies he’ll need to absorb, it’s not like he’s a mailman becoming an astronaut.
It’s funny to be in a situation where we’re talking about Freddie Freeman moving to make room for Matt Adams. Just over a month ago, the Braves got Adams from the Cardinals, and it cost them practically nothing. Adams has hit, yes, but then, according to the numbers at Baseball Prospectus, the Braves version of Matt Adams has faced the third-easiest schedule of opposing pitchers in the game. It follows that Adams has been more successful because the average pitcher he’s seen is less successful, and we all know that Adams has overachieved. He’s going to regress, and his market value hasn’t gone that much up.
But still, Matt Adams isn’t a bad baseball player. He projects as something around an average baseball player. If you’re talking about moving Freeman to third, then the bulk of this comes down to Adams versus the other third-base possibilities. Let’s say Adams is average, or perhaps a hair worse. Rio Ruiz projects around replacement level. Johan Camargo projects around replacement level. Adonis Garcia, Jace Peterson, Danny Santana — they all project around replacement level. It’s not surprising the Braves have cycled through a bunch of replacement-level options; that’s the whole idea. Adams is a better player than each of them, so then all that’s left is wondering what this could mean for Freeman’s value.
Just looking at the general positional adjustments that feed into WAR, over the course of a full season there’s a 15-run difference between third base and first. That’s a good place to start. Freeman seems like he’s probably a +5-run first baseman, so a fair estimate would be that he’d be a -10-run third baseman. Could be better, could be worse, but that’s a simple expectation.
Here is a defensive highlight from last August:
Freeman makes a good throw, and you can hear the commentary — “Freeman’s got a cannon.” When Freeman was a draft prospect, reports said he had a plus arm. That was a while ago, but the video clip wasn’t a while ago, and Freeman does seem to have a good arm for a first baseman. Which makes it more conceivable he could work out at third. As further evidence, let’s make use of the Fan Scouting Report results. In this table, I’ve collected Freeman’s ratings from the last three years. I’ve also included the ratings for the average first baseman and the average third baseman.
| Player(s) | Instincts | First Step | Speed | Hands | Release | Arm Strength | Arm Accuracy | Overall |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Freddie Freeman | 57 | 33 | 28 | 69 | 59 | 60 | 60 | 53 |
| MLB 1B | 47 | 38 | 35 | 50 | 44 | 45 | 45 | 43 |
| MLB 3B | 56 | 53 | 48 | 53 | 54 | 59 | 54 | 54 |
The Fan Scouting Report is far from perfect, and it’s subject to its own biases, but you see that Freeman has ended up with a higher overall rating than the average first baseman. He’s been right there with the average third baseman. He’s much slower, with a worse first step, but the hands are good, and the arm could and should play. Perhaps Freeman would be more like a -5-run third baseman. Range might be less important than ever in this era of ever-present defensive shifts.
This kind of move is unusual. It’s rare for a player to try to move up the defensive spectrum. Several people have recalled Miguel Cabrera moving to third base for the Tigers, upon their signing Prince Fielder, and that is somewhat relevant. On the other hand, Cabrera already had plenty of prior third-base experience. A few years ago, the Angels briefly toyed with moving Mark Trumbo to third base. That didn’t last. He started eight games, and committed four errors. Trumbo and Freeman are far from being one and the same, but there’s not much in the way of true precedent. Freeman wants to try something that’s almost never done.
I just don’t think there’s too much to lose. The Braves aren’t going to make the World Series, no matter what. For Freeman and the Braves, this could unlock a new option, and it’s not like they have any superior third basemen hanging around. This certainly feels better than jamming Adams into an outfield corner, as the Cardinals tried. And it’s always worth remembering this could be temporary. It might not even ever happen at all, if someone comes calling with an offer of a quality prospect. Adams could get traded. Or, of course, Adams could get hurt. Or he could regress so severely the Braves don’t worry about losing his bat from the lineup so much anymore. Freeman’s not rejoining the team tomorrow, and you know what they say about baseball and predictions.
But as astonishing as this seems, I don’t see why the Braves wouldn’t just agree to let Freeman try third. I don’t think there’s a great deal of risk. I’m not sure how much there is to gain, either, but better to play Adams than to play those other guys. Those other guys aren’t likely to do anything good.
Jeff made Lookout Landing a thing, but he does not still write there about the Mariners. He does write here, sometimes about the Mariners, but usually not.
Move Colon to the outfield.
Great idea! He can cover the entire square footage while never moving, then put the other two OF in the infield.
I’m not an astronaut, and Freddie Freeman isn’t a third baseman.
Pithy, but nothing really wrong with this.
But are you a mailman?
No, he’s President of the Yankees
Might not have an immediate impact, but Freeman is 1b of the Braves present AND future. The other guys are the ones who will need to take over 3b, so the more time they have there, the better chance the Braves have of finding a stable option for the position. If this year is irrelevant, then the future should be first priority, not some weird experiment to let a player who is not part of the Braves future get a few more dollars added to his contract. Plus Freeman is a skilled first basemen, but not an athletic one. Third base requires much more athleticism because a throw is necessary after the ball is fielded and that transition is where athleticism comes in. As a Braves fan I hope I’m wrong and this works out fantastically, but I’m more than skeptical.
Ruiz *might* work out to be some kind of long-term option, but he’s not very good, and it won’t kill his projection to spend more time in the high minors. As much as it seems silly to force Matt Adams into the picture during a go-nowhere season, I just really don’t see too much risk. Plus, this will only boost Freeman’s already saintly local standing. What a selfless leader!
A lot of that depends on what you (or more importantly the Braves) think about the guys they’re running out there at 3B today. If they really ARE the future then you may have a point. If they aren’t, then nothing’s harmed by someone else manning the position.
Freeman is the star of the Braves present and future: him being at 1B is just where he fits, it isn’t what makes him a star. He’d be an even bigger star if he could manage a respectable 3B.
Do not taunt HappyFunBall.
“…it’s not like he’s a mailman becoming an astronaut.”
That may be the single best line I’ve ever read on Fangraphs. +10
Came down here just to post this. Glad to see it here already!
And it’s correct, because the only guy who’s gone from being a mailman to an astronaut is Stan Lee.
I’ve always wanted to see more players moved up the defensive spectrum, just to see what would happen. Sure, it blew up in the Padres’ face but it worked okay for the Mets with three corner outfielders. But imagine if you could cram Freddie Freeman at third, or Cody Bellinger at 2nd base, Adam Dunn in center field…I don’t have any idea if it’s a good idea but it is a fun idea.
One other note: Moving Cabrera and Trumbo to third base isn’t really fair to Freeman. Freeman’s more mobile than either one. And it allows the Braves to keep running Adams out there, who clearly agrees with his new home ballpark.
I definitely think SunTrust Park has at least something to do with Adams’ success. I certainly don’t think we could expect him to keep this pace up, but expecting slightly better than usual power numbers from Adams is reasonable.
What’s the most difficult position you would play peak-Bonds?
Depends how many Bonds I have
Bellinger has DRS and RangeR numbers in LF similar to Delino DeShields in similar innings. He’s been scratch in uzr due to terrible arm runs as he’s not an experienced OF.
He probably has the range to play CF. The only players with more RangeR than him in LF have double the innings
Scouts and the Dodgers org view Bellinger as a 70 field, perennial gold glove 1b however, like Goldschmidt. Its not clear he’d be more valuable as a scratch or below average defender at a harder position if he’s a 10 runs above average 1B.
Adam Dunn won a gold glove in Center… well sort of.
My favorite notgraphs
Glad you caught that one.
In real life, would it be worth it to get Adam Dunn’s bat in the lineup nine times? I don’t know, but don’t we run computer simulations all the time to test out policies? Let’s see what Freddie Freeman can do at third, and if it goes well maybe we can stick Rizzo in center.
What if we put 9 Adam Dunns against 9 Adam Dunns?!
It can work but usually there is at best mixed success. The A’s basically do with a of their position players:). It is a way to get extra production cheap but it also is a way to get a historically bad defense.
I also think it is worth a try and maybe it works in that case but generally mlb farm systems already try to keep you at the toughest position at all cost and most guys trying to play up in position suck in the field.
Mlb defense is hard, there is a reason why longenhagen often writes that many college 3b have to move to first or shortstops move to second or third.
Pujols,miggy and even Edgar all were 3b at some point and teams would have kept them there if they thought it worked. Sometimes a player can move to the right but for everyone who does it there are 10 who have to move to the left.
Pujols came to mind for me too. The Cards didn’t move him off because he couldn’t handle it… in his single full season there he rated well (about average per DRS and UZR). They moved him to LF because they acquired Scott Rolen and Tino Martinez was at 1B. After Tino left Pujols moved to first, where his reputation was good (he won a couple of Gold Gloves) altho the metrics didn’t love him.
That doesn’t tell us anything about Freeman, but I wouldn’t be shocked if he could manage -10 defense over a full season. If that’s the case then the Braves overall are better by a win or so with him there and league-average Adams at first then Freeman at first and someone replacement-level at 3B.
So it’s not a huge deal either way, but given where the Braves are at why not try it? They could continue building up Adams’ value for a trade, or keep him for a few years at cheap rates.
It seems to have gone out of fashion, but moving a big bat who played 1B, OF, or C to third base used to be a somewhat common occurrence. Among those who got switched to the position for an non-trivial amount of time: Jimmie Foxx, Carl Yastrzemski, Johnny Bench, Ted Simmons, Gil Hodges, Pedro Guerrero, BJ Surhoff.
They were mostly lousy hot-corner defenders, however, so perhaps it’s for good reason we don’t see it so much today. Still, I like the move for the Braves — it’s worth a shot.
I think Simmons’ duration at third could be considered trivial—two starts in 1976, during his prime, in which he made 3 errors in 7 chances, and then 11 starts in 1984, near the end of his days as a regular, in which he made 6 errors in 37 chances. He finished his 3b days with an additional 4 starts there over the next three seasons, handling his final 15 chances at the hot corner flawlessly. In all, 195 innings at 3rd, .847 fielding percentage, and a prorated -50 runs.
Pedro Guerrero: “First I pray to God that nobody hits the ball to me. Then I pray to God that no one hits the ball to Steve Sax.” Okay buddy, maybe we should put you somewhere else.
While I still think this is a questionable Idea by the Braves, at best, I am grateful for the article picking up on to two points. First point, as a Braves fan, I’ve known for years that Freddie had a cannon for an arm and always thought it was kind of a waste seeing as he was a 1B. Second point, I freaking love Freddie Freeman so much for being the one to put this out there in an effort to help the team. I still think it is a bad Idea, but I love his selflessness to move off of his position to help keep a good bat in the line-up.
The throw freeman makes to second on that play looks like a 50 arm to me on the scouting scale.
I’m wrong, I checked his fastball velocity according to perfect game and his is the same as other infielders whose arms rate as plus.
Also want to point out that in that video, he makes that throw on a quick turn, beats the runner (who had a head start) by two steps while delivering the ball to Swanson in the exact location that best sets him up to try to turn the double-play.
I agree about the video. That particular throw did not look fast, even if everything else about it was excellent.
Miguel Cabrera at 3B worked because he was the best hitter in baseball at the time. As things stand now, Freddie Freeman is the best hitter in baseball, and he may end up being 5-10 runs better than Cabrera was defensively at 3B. Cabrera was worth 7.5 WAR in his MVP 2013 season in spite of a -14.8 defensive rating. He ran a 193 wRC+ that year. Freddie Freeman currently has that beat by 10 points and POSSIBLY 10 runs on defense. If Freeman is even a 6 WAR 3B and Adams a 2 WAR 1B, that’s probably better than Freeman at 1B and whoever they put at 3B.
So what I’m understanding is in fantasy, one could conceivably have an infield of Rizzo at 2B and Freeman at 3B….
…and Machado at SS. Oh, the humanity!
Freeman’s playing the long-game… he wants to improve his HOF chances.
Bill James noted 40+ years ago now these shifts pretty much never work.
Certainly there have been no further data points since the 70s. Case closed.
(?)
Um…OK. What are the further data points in the last 40 years? I would say that James’ observation is probably still valid. Has baseball really changed that much since the 70s?
Freeman a -5 defender at 3b?
We see a -15 to -25 run delta between 1B and 3B defense for guys like Miggy and Pujols. Assuming we will see anything different with Freeman is being willingly naive.
Building around young pitching and the world’s worst corner defense seems….dumb.
This is not a great take, with all due respect.
1) they aren’t “building” around this. It’s clearly an experiment. Also, according to FG, Matt Adams is not nearly as bad as 1b as you seem to be saying.
2) you’re ignoring that Freeman profiles better than Cabrera or Pujols thanks to his arm. So we *should* assume it will be different. The question is whether it will be different enough to be worthwhile. We shall see.
OK, then you make a prediction on Freeman’s UZR/150 at 3B. I say -20.
What do you say? I will bump this thread at the end of the season.
I’d say he’s not unlikely to be as bad as -20, but that’s beside the point. The point is whether it’s a worthwhile experiment. The thing you might be missing is that there is essentially zero risk here, so for it to be silly, or a bad idea, there has to be a downside. Since there isn’t… what are you objecting to exactly?
If there’s a 1% chance he can be a passable 3b, it is worthwhile. Any time you have a greater than zero % chance of success with 0 risk/downside, you do it.
I get that this article is more concerned with the idea of Freeman’s move to third base; however, I would like to comment on the following: “He’s [Adams] going to regress, and his market value hasn’t gone that much up.”
Do we know that Adams is for sure going to regress? I mean, I obviously do not think he is going to sustain a 1 HR/ 12AB pace; however, couldn’t he be markedly better than he has been in the past? He lost a significant amount of weight prior to this season. This is also the first time in his career that he has gotten regular ABs (not to mention ABs vs. lefties). Instead of just assuming he is going to regress, maybe we should be looking at changes he’s made to mark the improvement? He’s only 28 years old and entering his peak years.
Nothing about Adams has changed since joining the Braves except for his HR/FB rate skyrocketing to 27%, which is double his career norm. Remove half of his HRs (5), convert them to 1 2B and 4 outs, and his line with the Braves is almost identical to his career line.
Matt Adams has not improved in any real way since becoming a Brave. Moving Freeman to clear a space for Adams is foolish. It is nowhere near the same scenario as moving Miggy to make room for Prince.
“Remove half of his HRs” …. remove half of any power hitter’s HR’s and their overall line will look quite different.
It was an attempt to show what his numbers would look like without the unsustainable HR/FB rate. Hard to grasp for some, I know…
23% HR/FB isn’t unsustainable. It is high for Adams given his career, but as we’ve seen with many guys over the last few years, you can learn to hit homers.
First of all, his hr/fb rate is 22.2, not 27%. So taking away half his HR’s is clearly the wrong adjustment.
Second of all, he is +2 over his career pull %, ditto his FB %, and is +4 on his career hard contact %. Those are not large changes but they do support a small power uptick.
Reading comprehension…it’s not for everyone I suppose. Allow me to paste what I actually wrote…
“Nothing about Adams has changed since joining the Braves except for his HR/FB rate skyrocketing to 27%”
I’ll leave it to you to figure out what you misread.
I literally pointed to changes, and you say nothing changed, while saying *I* can’t read. This is a pretty epic self own.
“Nothing about Adams has changed since joining the Braves except for his HR/FB rate”
– K% dropped from 32% with the Cards to 21% with the Braves (supported by a SwStr drop from 16% to 12%)
– Contact has jumped from 69% (Cards) to 76% (Braves)
– Hard hit% increased from 34% with the Cards to 42% with the Braves
– LD% has gone from 12% to 17% (LD% admittedly doesn’t stabilize forever, but this is what has happened)
Suggesting that nothing has changed is just foolish. Not saying that Adams will entirely keep up what he’s doing, but there are definitely changes besides his HR/FB rate.
xStats has Adams at an expected triple slash (for the year) of .288/.338/.566 based on his batted balls and plate discipline #s (along with an xBABIP of .316). His actual line is .293/.344/.575 (BABIP .327), which is as close as it gets (basically he’s gotten ‘lucky’ to the tune of 3 extra singles). His expected line included 12 homers, and he’s hit… 12 homers (although he’s only at 7 expected HRs in June and actually has 9, he was expected to have 2 in April and didn’t hit any).
To be clear, these expected #s are calculated by taking into account “the vertical and horizontal launch angles, exit velocities, batted ball distances, game time temperature, and ball park,” and then pairing that with actual plate discipline #s (K and BB rates). So Adams has earned his 12 HRs suggesting his 22% HR/FB for the year has been fairly deserved.
By the way, he did sustain a 22% HR/FB for the 2013 season (although only 319 PAs), and in that year he ran a 135 wRC+. Again not saying Adams will sustain this exact high level of production for the rest of the year, but it’s not like he’s gotten amazingly lucky and had the wind carry out 5 of his homers.
Yes, Adams is definitely going to regress, but this gambit is the only way the Braves even have a chance of flipping him for something later on. He has to play in order to accrue perceived value. If they can move him for anything useful, then Freeman’s swap was worthwhile.
They have Adams through next year. 2017 may be lost, but what if they think 2018 isn’t?
Conceivably have a boatload of pitching prospects come up. Swanson (shouldn’t) start as poorly. You have a 5-6 WAR 3B and a 2 WAR 1B.
My thoughts anyway. I think this is just Freeman being the ultimate team player and helping build up Adams as an asset to trade.
I never had a negative opinion of FF but I certainly have an overwhelmingly positive opinion of him.
It is great to see a player these days sacrifice to do what is best for the team.
That first quote block made me think not only is Freeman playing third base, he’s talking about himself in the third person. That would have been fun.
Rickey knows all about it.
“Don’t worry about Rickey talking to Rickey. Rickey says the things he needs to say to play the game the way he needs to play it. When the bat starts talking back, that’s what you need to put Rickey away.”
FWIW … Of the 50 other modern position players at least Freeman’s height (6′ 5″), only 2 ever played 100 games at 3B in a season — Troy Glaus and Kris Bryant, both listed at 6′ 5″.
Even if that reflects only prejudice, it shows that the prejudice is entrenched.
Another point is, we’ve all seen guys whose struggles at a new position seemed to affect their hitting, a la Sano last year.
But purely as a baseball fan, yeah, I’d love to see Freeman across the diamond, and there doesn’t seem to be much risk in trying it this year.