How’s My Driving?

I was hired to be FanGraphs’ Lead Prospect Analyst just after the 2016 Draft and took my first run at evaluating the entire minor leagues on my own the following winter. Enough time has now passed that many of the players from that era of prospecting have had big league careers transpire (or not). Hindsight allows me to have a pretty definitive idea of whether my call on a player was right or wrong in a binary sense, and gauge the gap between my evaluation and what the player ultimately became. Looking back allows me to assess my approach to grading and ranking players so that I might begin to establish some baselines of self-assessment and see how I perform compared to my peers at other publications. I spent time this offseason compiling the various Top 100 prospect rankings from seven years ago for the purposes of such a self-assessment. Below are the results of that exercise and my thoughts on them.
There are absolutely deeper avenues of retrospective analysis that can be done with prospect lists than what I have attempted below, approaches that could educate us about prospects themselves, and probably also about prospect writers. Before we get to a couple of big, fun tables and my notes, I want to quickly go over why I took the approach I did here, discuss its flaws, and posit other potential methods (while also including some thoughts about their limitations).
Below, I have compiled the 2017 Top 100 prospect rankings from the publications where it was basically at least one person’s full-time job to do this: FanGraphs, Baseball Prospectus, ESPN, MLB Pipeline, and Baseball America. Of course, more players from the 2017 rookie class than were ranked on Top 100 lists have turned into good players, and so I’ve also included players who might be thought of as collective whiffs, guys who produced enough that they clearly should have been on Top 100 lists by my measure of production (i.e., they performed like a 50-grade player or better). I’ve also included anyone who I graded as a 50, but who was ranked just outside the arbitrary 100-player cutoff.
My goal here was to reflect on my work, not to create metrics that measure these publications’ performance against one another, and so I haven’t done that; the Top 100 rankings are the only comparative aspect of this piece, which you’ll find next to one another in the table below. Everyone has their fair share of hits and misses; readers can get a sense of those on a case-by-case basis as they play with the table.
Eventually, someone could pool the lists and look at how the rankings correlate with WAR (either career WAR or WAR during a specific window of time, which is how I would do it) to compare everyone’s work, but I don’t believe quantitative analysis of this kind can be done on all the players who appeared on the 2017 rankings just yet. As you’ll see in the table below, a lot of the younger players from this prospect class are still in the early stages of their major league careers. As you’ll also see in the table, many of the guys who have had six- or seven-year big league tenures have had wild peaks and valleys in performance during that span. Folks inclined to do comparative analysis of this sort will want to wait and see how things pan out for guys like Ke’Bryan Hayes, Leody Taveras, and others like them before pursuing something like that. You can also really only do comparative analysis using rankings rather than grades, because while each publication tends to use the 20-to-80 scouting scale in some way, the approaches different people and publications take and the way the scale is applied varies pretty significantly from shop to shop (which I think is cool and good, by the way).
There’s nothing stopping me from looking at my own grades, though. So in that vein, career-to-date WAR for players who graduated from rookie status in 2017 (and only for those players) is included in the first table. In the second table further down the page, I go into deeper, more meaningful analysis of players from 2017’s prospect lists whose careers are now sufficiently long to do so, whose pre-free agency service time is complete. Part of my approach to forecasting players has been to focus on the window of service time prior to a player’s free agency, and now members of the rookie class of 2017 like Cody Bellinger, Matt Chapman, Jordan Montgomery, and others have played for long enough to be subject to this kind of analysis.
Why do I have this six-to-seven year cutoff? For one, I think it’s a fool’s errand to try to decide which of these guys is going to have a 15-year career (or more) when so few of them do. Teams also aren’t digging back into a free agent target’s scouting reports from seven years ago when he was at Double-A and using that information to decide whether or not to sign him, so why should a scouting report from when the player was at Double-A attempt to predict what kind of player he’ll be after he hits free agency? We should care about it as baseball fans, of course, but as a prospect analyst I believe I should not.
Here are our collective Top 100 lists:
| FG | MLB | BA | ESPN | BP | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Avg Rk | Grad Yr | Career WAR |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 2 | 2 | 17 | 5 | Yoán Moncada | INF | CHW | 21.7 | 5.4 | ’17 | 14.4 |
| 2 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 3 | Andrew Benintendi | OF | BOS | 22.6 | 1.6 | ’17 | 13 |
| 3 | 5 | 8 | 3 | 8 | Amed Rosario | SS | NYM | 21.2 | 5.4 | ’17 | 7.6 |
| 4 | 4 | 3 | 2 | 2 | Dansby Swanson | SS | ATL | 23.0 | 3.0 | ’17 | 21.2 |
| 5 | 10 | 6 | 9 | 6 | Austin Meadows | OF | PIT | 21.7 | 7.2 | ’18 | — |
| 6 | 6 | 4 | 10 | 1 | Alex Reyes | RHP | STL | 32.4 | 5.4 | ’18 | — |
| 7 | 3 | 5 | 4 | 15 | Gleyber Torres | SS | NYY | 20.1 | 6.8 | ’18 | — |
| 8 | 8 | 13 | 8 | 7 | Victor Robles | CF | WSN | 19.7 | 8.8 | ’19 | — |
| 9 | 7 | 12 | 5 | 4 | J.P. Crawford | SS | PHI | 22.1 | 7.4 | ’18 | — |
| 10 | 25 | 21 | 21 | 24 | Anderson Espinoza | RHP | SDP | 18.9 | 20.2 | N/A | — |
| 11 | 11 | 11 | 26 | 35 | Ozzie Albies | 2B | ATL | 20.1 | 18.8 | ’17 | 18.9 |
| 12 | 49 | 26 | 46 | 23 | Yadier Álvarez | RHP | LAD | 20.9 | 31.2 | N/A | — |
| 13 | 13 | 7 | 6 | 26 | Cody Bellinger | 1B | LAD | 21.6 | 13.0 | ’17 | 21.7 |
| 14 | 15 | 16 | 19 | 11 | Brendan Rodgers | SS | COL | 20.5 | 15.0 | ’20 | — |
| 15 | 14 | 14 | 12 | 9 | Eloy Jiménez | OF | CHC | 20.2 | 12.8 | ’19 | — |
| 16 | 18 | 27 | 38 | 12 | Lewis Brinson | CF | MIL | 22.7 | 22.2 | ’18 | — |
| 17 | 21 | 10 | 43 | 21 | Willy Adames | SS | TBR | 21.4 | 22.4 | ’18 | — |
| 18 | 20 | 15 | 37 | 28 | Francis Martes | RHP | HOU | 21.2 | 23.6 | ’17 | 0.2 |
| 19 | 12 | 25 | 13 | 10 | Lucas Giolito | RHP | CHW | 22.5 | 15.8 | ’17 | 14 |
| 20 | 30 | 42 | 34 | 41 | Corey Ray | OF | MIL | 22.4 | 33.4 | N/A | — |
| 21 | 16 | 32 | 7 | 36 | Michael Kopech | RHP | CHW | 20.8 | 22.4 | ’21 | — |
| 22 | 17 | 18 | 11 | 13 | Rafael Devers | 3B | BOS | 20.3 | 16.2 | ’17 | 21.2 |
| 23 | 23 | 24 | 24 | 18 | Manuel Margot | CF | SDP | 22.3 | 22.4 | ’17 | 9.7 |
| 24 | 34 | 20 | 48 | NR | Vladimir Guerrero Jr. | 3B | TOR | 17.9 | 31.5 | ’19 | — |
| 25 | 97 | 96 | 23 | 45 | Cal Quantrill | RHP | SDP | 22.0 | 57.2 | ’19 | — |
| 26 | 9 | 23 | 25 | 14 | Tyler Glasnow | RHP | PIT | 23.4 | 19.4 | ’17 | 9.8 |
| 27 | 19 | 17 | 30 | 56 | Mickey Moniak | OF | PHI | 18.7 | 29.8 | 22 | — |
| 28 | 45 | 31 | NR | 30 | Reynaldo López | RHP | CHW | 23.1 | 33.5 | ’17 | 9 |
| 29 | 41 | 43 | 20 | 29 | Jay Groome | LHP | BOS | 18.4 | 32.4 | N/A | — |
| 30 | 26 | 9 | 15 | 20 | Nick Senzel | 3B | CIN | 21.6 | 20.0 | ’19 | — |
| 31 | 51 | 46 | 83 | 46 | Riley Pint | RHP | COL | 19.2 | 51.4 | N/A | — |
| 32 | 72 | 41 | 45 | 33 | Jorge Alfaro | C | PHI | 23.6 | 44.6 | ’18 | — |
| 33 | 91 | 86 | 61 | 79 | Delvin Pérez | SS | STL | 18.2 | 70.0 | N/A | — |
| 34 | 24 | 39 | 27 | 16 | Clint Frazier | OF | NYY | 22.4 | 28.0 | ’17 | -0.7 |
| 35 | NR | 67 | 36 | 31 | Ronald Acuña Jr. | CF | ATL | 19.1 | 42.3 | ’18 | — |
| 36 | 31 | 30 | 54 | 22 | Brent Honeywell | RHP | TBR | 21.8 | 34.6 | ’23 | — |
| 37 | 40 | 28 | 18 | 34 | Francisco Mejía | C | CLE | 21.3 | 31.4 | ’19 | — |
| 38 | 29 | 34 | 68 | 70 | Kyle Lewis | OF | SEA | 21.6 | 47.8 | ’20 | — |
| 39 | NR | NR | 76 | 17 | Robert Gsellman | RHP | NYM | 23.5 | 44.0 | ’17 | 2.3 |
| 40 | 37 | 45 | 22 | 49 | Blake Rutherford | OF | NYY | 19.7 | 38.6 | N/A | — |
| 41 | 53 | 37 | 32 | 67 | Kolby Allard | LHP | ATL | 19.5 | 46.0 | ’19 | — |
| 42 | 61 | 58 | 31 | 66 | Alex Verdugo | CF | LAD | 20.7 | 51.6 | ’19 | — |
| 43 | 58 | 87 | 28 | 58 | James Kaprielian | RHP | NYY | 22.9 | 54.8 | ’21 | — |
| 44 | 33 | 29 | 73 | 38 | José De León | RHP | TBR | 24.5 | 43.4 | ’21 | — |
| 45 | 22 | 62 | NR | 80 | Bradley Zimmer | CF | CLE | 24.2 | 52.3 | ’17 | 2.9 |
| 46 | 48 | 22 | 16 | 27 | Mitch Keller | RHP | PIT | 20.8 | 31.8 | ’20 | — |
| 47 | 44 | 36 | 96 | 50 | Jeff Hoffman | RHP | COL | 24.1 | 54.6 | ’17 | 2.4 |
| 48 | 32 | 77 | 59 | 100 | Kevin Maitan | 3B | ATL | 17.0 | 63.2 | N/A | — |
| 49 | 55 | 47 | 35 | 73 | Leody Taveras | CF | TEX | 18.4 | 51.8 | ’21 | — |
| 50 | 27 | 35 | 14 | 25 | Josh Bell | 1B | PIT | 24.5 | 30.2 | ’17 | 8.7 |
| 51 | 28 | 63 | 63 | 54 | Ian Happ | 2B | CHC | 22.5 | 51.8 | ’17 | 14.2 |
| 52 | 73 | 53 | NR | NR | Germán Márquez | RHP | COL | 21.9 | 59.3 | ’17 | 17.4 |
| 53 | NR | NR | NR | 40 | Sandy Alcantara | RHP | STL | 21.4 | 46.5 | ’19 | — |
| 54 | 86 | 66 | 52 | 96 | Ian Anderson | RHP | ATL | 18.7 | 70.8 | ’21 | — |
| 55 | 57 | 68 | 85 | 55 | Triston McKenzie | RHP | CLE | 19.5 | 64.0 | ’21 | — |
| 56 | 74 | 61 | 82 | 88 | Matt Manning | RHP | DET | 19.0 | 72.2 | ’21 | — |
| 57 | 62 | 79 | 79 | 68 | Luis F. Ortiz | RHP | MIL | 21.4 | 69.0 | ’23 | — |
| 58 | 65 | 93 | 41 | 59 | Isan Díaz | 2B | MIL | 20.7 | 63.2 | ’19 | — |
| 59 | 38 | 33 | 71 | 19 | Josh Hader | LHP | MIL | 22.8 | 44.0 | ’17 | 11.3 |
| 60 | 43 | 76 | 42 | 71 | Braxton Garrett | LHP | MIA | 19.5 | 58.4 | ’22 | — |
| 61 | 46 | 90 | 44 | 63 | Aaron Judge | RF | NYY | 24.8 | 60.8 | ’17 | 41.4 |
| 62 | NR | NR | 50 | NR | Max Fried | LHP | ATL | 23.0 | 56.0 | ’18 | — |
| 63 | 35 | 19 | 57 | 37 | Kyle Tucker | OF | HOU | 20.0 | 42.2 | ’19 | — |
| 64 | 56 | NR | 75 | 39 | Yohander Méndez | LHP | TEX | 22.0 | 58.5 | N/A | — |
| 65 | 66 | 81 | 39 | 32 | Amir Garrett | LHP | CIN | 24.7 | 56.6 | ’17 | 0.3 |
| 66 | 50 | 60 | 53 | 48 | Nick Gordon | SS | MIN | 21.3 | 55.4 | ’21 | — |
| 67 | 52 | 40 | 56 | 47 | Franklin Barreto | SS | OAK | 20.9 | 52.4 | ’18 | — |
| 68 | 69 | 83 | 93 | 61 | A.J. Puk | LHP | OAK | 21.8 | 74.8 | ’22 | — |
| 69 | 89 | NR | NR | NR | Christian Arroyo | 3B | SFG | 21.7 | 79.0 | ’18 | — |
| 70 | NR | NR | 77 | NR | Luiz Gohara | LHP | ATL | 20.5 | 73.5 | N/A | — |
| 71 | NR | 84 | NR | NR | Jharel Cotton | RHP | OAK | 25.0 | 77.5 | ’17 | 0.7 |
| 72 | NR | NR | NR | NR | Matt Strahm | LHP | KCR | 25.2 | 72.0 | ’17 | 5.2 |
| 73 | 63 | 71 | 29 | NR | Dominic Smith | 1B | NYM | 21.6 | 59.0 | ’17 | -0.5 |
| 74 | 93 | NR | 40 | 94 | Walker Buehler | RHP | LAD | 22.5 | 75.3 | ’18 | — |
| 75 | 42 | 44 | NR | 92 | Hunter Renfroe | OF | SDP | 25.0 | 63.3 | ’17 | 9.9 |
| 76 | NR | 98 | 80 | NR | Adrian Morejon | LHP | SDP | 17.9 | 84.7 | ’20 | — |
| 77 | NR | 100 | 84 | NR | Justin Dunn | RHP | NYM | 21.4 | 87.0 | ’20 | — |
| 78 | NR | NR | 47 | NR | Fernando Tatis Jr. | 3B | SDP | 18.1 | 62.5 | ’19 | — |
| 79 | 70 | 59 | 55 | 93 | Anthony Alford | OF | TOR | 22.5 | 71.2 | ’20 | — |
| 80 | NR | 82 | 100 | NR | Brandon Woodruff | RHP | MIL | 24.0 | 87.3 | ’18 | — |
| 81 | 39 | 65 | 51 | 81 | Carson Kelly | C | STL | 22.5 | 63.4 | ’18 | — |
| 82 | NR | NR | NR | NR | Andrés Giménez | SS | NYM | 18.4 | 82.0 | ’20 | — |
| 83 | 59 | 55 | 33 | 65 | Kevin Newman | SS | PIT | 23.5 | 59.0 | ’19 | — |
| 84 | NR | NR | 70 | NR | Lucas Erceg | 3B | MIL | 21.8 | 77.0 | ’23! | — |
| 85 | 99 | 57 | 69 | 76 | Chance Sisco | C | BAL | 21.9 | 77.2 | ’18 | — |
| 86 | 88 | 89 | 62 | NR | Tyler Beede | RHP | SFG | 23.7 | 81.3 | ’19 | — |
| 87 | NR | NR | NR | NR | Dustin Fowler | CF | NYY | 22.1 | 87.0 | ’18 | — |
| 88 | NR | 88 | NR | NR | Anthony Banda | LHP | ARI | 23.5 | 88.0 | ’20 | — |
| 89 | 82 | 92 | NR | NR | Willie Calhoun | 2B | LAD | 22.2 | 87.7 | ’18 | — |
| 90 | 90 | 49 | 58 | 42 | Raimel Tapia | CF | COL | 23.0 | 65.8 | ’17 | 1.4 |
| 91 | 47 | 85 | NR | 43 | Jorge Mateo | SS | NYY | 21.6 | 66.5 | ’20 | — |
| 92 | NR | NR | 90 | 78 | Jahmai Jones | CF | LAA | 19.5 | 86.7 | N/A | — |
| 93 | 78 | 48 | NR | 64 | Michael Soroka | RHP | ATL | 19.5 | 70.8 | ’19 | — |
| 94 | 81 | 56 | 95 | 89 | Zack Collins | C | CHW | 22.0 | 83.0 | ’20 | — |
| 95 | NR | NR | NR | 57 | Juan Soto | OF | WSN | 18.3 | 76.0 | ’18 | — |
| 96 | 64 | 75 | 72 | 85 | Sean Reid-Foley | RHP | TOR | 21.4 | 78.4 | ’19 | — |
| 97 | 79 | 91 | 88 | 52 | Justus Sheffield | LHP | NYY | 20.7 | 81.4 | ’20 | — |
| 98 | 71 | NR | NR | NR | Carson Fulmer | RHP | CHW | 23.1 | 84.5 | ’18 | — |
| 99 | NR | NR | 74 | NR | Ke’Bryan Hayes | 3B | PIT | 20.0 | 86.5 | ’21 | — |
| 100 | 67 | NR | 49 | NR | Jesse Winker | OF | CIN | 23.5 | 72.0 | ’18 | — |
| 101 | NR | NR | 64 | 72 | Ariel Jurado | RHP | TEX | 21.0 | 79.0 | ’18 | — |
| 101 | NR | 54 | 66 | 84 | Franklin Pérez | RHP | HOU | 19.2 | 76.3 | N/A | — |
| 101 | 84 | NR | 78 | NR | Forrest Whitley | RHP | HOU | 19.4 | 87.7 | N/A | — |
| 101 | 80 | 78 | 81 | 44 | Sean Newcomb | LHP | ATL | 23.6 | 76.8 | ’17 | 2.9 |
| 101 | NR | NR | 89 | NR | Jack Flaherty | RHP | STL | 21.3 | 95.0 | ’18 | — |
| 101 | 92 | 99 | 91 | NR | Stephen Gonsalves | LHP | MIN | 22.6 | 95.8 | N/A | — |
| 101 | NR | NR | 92 | NR | Christin Stewart | OF | DET | 23.1 | 96.5 | ’19 | — |
| 101 | 98 | NR | 97 | NR | Alex Kirilloff | OF | MIN | 19.2 | 98.7 | ’21 | — |
| 101 | 100 | 94 | NR | NR | Matt Chapman | 3B | OAK | 23.8 | 98.3 | ’17 | 27.3 |
| 101 | NR | NR | NR | NR | Kyle Freeland | LHP | COL | 23.7 | 101.0 | ’17 | 12.4 |
| 101 | 95 | NR | NR | NR | Jeimer Candelario | 1B | CHC | 23.2 | 98.0 | ’17 | 11.5 |
| 101 | NR | NR | NR | 86 | Frankie Montas | RHP | OAK | 23.9 | 93.5 | ’17 | 9.6 |
| 101 | 68 | 50 | NR | NR | Luke Weaver | RHP | STL | 23.4 | 73.0 | ’17 | 6.9 |
| 101 | 54 | 51 | NR | 83 | David Paulino | RHP | HOU | 23.0 | 72.3 | ’17 | 0.1 |
| 101 | 36 | 38 | NR | 53 | Tyler O’Neill | OF | SEA | 21.6 | 57.0 | ’18 | — |
| 101 | 60 | 52 | NR | 62 | Erick Fedde | RHP | WSN | 23.9 | 68.8 | ’18 | — |
| 101 | NR | NR | NR | NR | Ramón Laureano | OF | HOU | 22.5 | 101.0 | ’18 | — |
| 101 | NR | NR | NR | NR | Greg Allen | OF | CLE | 23.9 | 101.0 | ’18 | — |
| 101 | NR | NR | NR | NR | Hunter Dozier | 3B | KCR | 25.4 | 101.0 | ’18 | — |
| 101 | NR | NR | NR | NR | Shed Long Jr. | 2B | CIN | 21.4 | 101.0 | ’19 | — |
| 101 | NR | NR | NR | NR | Aristides Aquino | OF | CIN | 22.8 | 101.0 | ’19 | — |
| 101 | NR | NR | NR | NR | Jacob Nix | RHP | SDP | 21.1 | 101.0 | ’19 | — |
| 101 | NR | NR | NR | NR | Bryan Reynolds | OF | SFG | 22.0 | 101.0 | ’19 | — |
| 101 | NR | NR | NR | NR | Dakota Hudson | RHP | STL | 22.4 | 101.0 | ’19 | — |
| 101 | NR | NR | NR | NR | Zack Burdi | RHP | CHW | 21.9 | 101.0 | ’21 | — |
| 101 | NR | NR | NR | NR | Marcos Diplán | RHP | MIL | 20.4 | 101.0 | ’21 | — |
| 101 | NR | NR | NR | NR | Jesús Sánchez | OF | TBR | 19.3 | 101.0 | ’21 | — |
| 101 | NR | NR | NR | NR | Cristian Pache | CF | ATL | 18.2 | 101.0 | ’22 | — |
| 101 | NR | NR | NR | NR | Cole Ragans | LHP | TEX | 19.1 | 101.0 | ’22 | — |
| 101 | NR | NR | NR | NR | Joey Wentz | LHP | ATL | 19.3 | 101.0 | ’23 | — |
| 101 | NR | NR | NR | 98 | Tyler Jay | LHP | MIN | 22.8 | 99.5 | N/A | — |
| 101 | NR | NR | NR | NR | Oscar De La Cruz | RHP | CHC | 21.9 | 101.0 | N/A | — |
| NR | NR | NR | 60 | 69 | Thomas Szapucki | LHP | NYM | 20.6 | 64.5 | N/A | — |
| NR | NR | NR | 65 | NR | Fernando Romero | RHP | MIN | 22.1 | 65.0 | ’18 | — |
| NR | NR | NR | 67 | 99 | Trent Grisham | OF | MIL | 20.2 | 83.0 | ’19 | — |
| NR | 77 | 97 | 86 | NR | Dylan Cease | RHP | CHC | 21.1 | 86.7 | ’19 | — |
| NR | NR | NR | 87 | NR | Kohl Stewart | RHP | MIN | 22.3 | 87.0 | ’19 | — |
| NR | NR | NR | 94 | NR | Luis Castillo | RHP | CIN | 24.1 | 94.0 | ’17 | 21.7 |
| NR | NR | NR | 98 | NR | Sam Travis | 1B | BOS | 23.4 | 98.0 | ’17 | -1.1 |
| NR | 87 | NR | 99 | NR | Robert Stephenson | RHP | CIN | 23.9 | 93.0 | ’17 | 2.1 |
| NR | NR | 69 | NR | NR | Cody Reed* | LHP | CIN | 23.8 | 69.0 | ’16 | — |
| NR | NR | 72 | NR | NR | A.J. Reed* | 1B | HOU | 23.7 | 72.0 | ’16 | — |
| NR | NR | NR | NR | NR | Matt Olson | 1B | OAK | 22.8 | NR | ’17 | 24.6 |
| NR | NR | NR | NR | NR | Brandon Nimmo | CF | NYM | 23.8 | NR | ’17 | 22 |
| NR | NR | NR | NR | NR | Jordan Montgomery | SP | NYY | 24.1 | NR | ’17 | 14.1 |
| NR | NR | NR | NR | NR | Yandy Díaz | 3B | CLE | 25.5 | NR | ’17 | 12.8 |
| NR | NR | NR | NR | NR | Teoscar Hernández | OF | TOR | 24.3 | NR | ’17 | 12.6 |
| NR | NR | NR | NR | NR | Rhys Hoskins | 1B | PHI | 23.9 | NR | ’17 | 11.6 |
| NR | NR | NR | NR | NR | Mitch Haniger | RF | SEA | 26.1 | NR | ’17 | 11.4 |
| NR | NR | NR | NR | NR | Marco Gonzales | SP | SEA | 25.0 | NR | ’17 | 10.2 |
| NR | NR | NR | NR | NR | Paul DeJong | SS | STL | 23.5 | NR | ’17 | 9.4 |
| NR | 76 | 64 | NR | 77 | Albert Almora Jr. | CF | CHC | 22.8 | 72.3 | ’17 | 2.1 |
| NR | NR | NR | NR | 101 | Tyler Wade | UTIL | NYY | 22.2 | 101.0 | ’17 | 0.2 |
| NR | 83 | NR | NR | NR | Derek Fisher | OF | HOU | 23.4 | 83.0 | ’17 | -0.4 |
| NR | NR | NR | NR | 51 | Nick Williams | OF | PHI | 23.4 | 51.0 | ’17 | -0.4 |
| NR | 75 | 70 | NR | NR | Jake Bauers | 1B | TBR | 21.3 | 72.5 | ’18 | — |
| NR | 94 | NR | NR | NR | Richard Urena | SS | TOR | 20.9 | 94.0 | ’18 | — |
| NR | NR | 73 | NR | NR | Lourdes Gurriel Jr. | UTIL | TOR | 23.3 | 73.0 | ’18 | — |
| NR | NR | NR | NR | 75 | Brett Phillips | OF | MIL | 22.7 | 75.0 | ’18 | — |
| NR | NR | 95 | NR | NR | Rowdy Tellez | 1B | TOR | 21.9 | 95.0 | ’19 | — |
| NR | 96 | NR | NR | NR | Bobby Bradley | 1B | CLE | 20.7 | 96.0 | ’21 | — |
| NR | NR | NR | NR | 82 | Albert Abreu | RHP | NYY | 21.3 | 82.0 | ’21 | — |
| NR | NR | NR | NR | 91 | Adonis Medina | RHP | PHI | 20.1 | 91.0 | ’22 | — |
| NR | 85 | NR | NR | 60 | Grant Holmes | RHP | OAK | 20.9 | 72.5 | N/A | — |
| NR | NR | NR | NR | 74 | Franklyn Kilome | RHP | PHI | 21.6 | 74.0 | N/A | — |
| NR | NR | 74 | NR | NR | Casey Gillaspie | 1B | TBR | 24.0 | 74.0 | N/A | — |
| NR | NR | 80 | NR | NR | Sixto Sánchez | RHP | PHI | 18.5 | 80.0 | N/A | — |
| NR | NR | NR | NR | 87 | Trevor Clifton | RHP | CHC | 21.7 | 87.0 | N/A | — |
| NR | NR | NR | NR | 90 | Yusniel Díaz | CF | LAD | 20.3 | 90.0 | N/A | — |
| NR | NR | NR | NR | 95 | Anderson Tejeda | SS | TEX | 18.8 | 95.0 | N/A | — |
| NR | NR | NR | NR | 97 | Alec Hansen | RHP | CHW | 22.3 | 97.0 | N/A | — |
! Erceg graduated in 2023 but as a pitcher.
Some thoughts on this table before we get to the next one: Sort the table by career WAR and, boy oh boy, this feels bad. As a group, we missed entirely on half of the top six players from this class. My 55 FV tier ran all the way back to 72nd overall, which is far too many guys graded that highly. There aren’t 70 guys in the minors at any given time who are going to be top 10 players at their position across my multi-year window, and that is essentially what I was saying with a 55 grade. I know there are readers who think I’m too pragmatic or even miserly with my projections, but at this stage I was handing out big grades to too many players. Now my 55 FV tier tends to run 20-30 players deep.
I was also not properly assessing the importance of health, proximity, and stability as it pertains to pitching prospects. There are far too many young, lower-level pitching prospects absolutely stuffed on my list. Contemporary approaches to pitcher deployment have teams spreading innings across more guys, which flattens the distribution of production across the league’s arms. Teams need a lot of pitchers to get through a big league season, but it’s rare for them to lean on any one guy enough to make him as valuable as the top hitters in the league. As such, I should have more pitchers than hitters on my team-by-team prospect lists, but the Top 100 and the peak of each team list should mostly be occupied by hitters. Modern, scientific approaches to developing pitchers also began to take hold around this time and pitchers’ collective ability to get better quickly exploded. In a way, this made guys who throw 95 and have a good slider surprisingly fungible. At this time, I was also nowhere near understanding the impact of fastball shape and angle, and it shows on this list. I also had not yet developed the list-making processes and data infrastructure that I now have in place in the background while I’m working on all of this stuff.
Let’s dive deeper into the rookie class from this season. Below are the players who exhausted their rookie eligibility in 2017 who were also on a Top 100 list (not just mine) that year with their career WAR, WAR rank among all qualified position players or pitchers since 2016 (to capture cups of coffee from the prior year), my projected FV grade from the time, and how I believe the player actually performed on the FV scale during his “window of evaluation.” Obviously, click through to the player pages for more stats, nerd. I’ve also included some players who haven’t graduated, but whose careers have stalled for one reason or another. In cases where a player quickly fell out of baseball entirely, they were given a “bust” designation; others who have hung around the upper levels of the minors have been given an “org” designation. I’ve also included thoughts on a couple of the notable collective whiffs:
| FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Yoán Moncada | INF | CHW | 21.7 | 14.4 | 83 | 70 | 50 | I had a scout I trust warn me that Moncada wasn’t a do-everything player and that ranking him this high was foolish. That turned out to be true (though that scout also thought Cristian Pache was going to be God-like), and Moncada has been a frustrating paragon of inconsistency since his debut. Most of Moncada’s output is tied up in his two big seasons in 2019 and 2021. He’s had strikeout problems and has only exceeded 20 homers once. He did do well enough that I won my podcast bet with Carson Cistulli that Moncada’s best year would exceed Gavin Cecchini’s career WAR, but I was so fixated on everything but his hit tool that I (and everyone but Keith, basically) over-projected him. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 2 | Andrew Benintendi | OF | BOS | 22.6 | 13 | 100 | 65 | 50 | Benintendi was high on everyone’s list largely because he was such a high-floored prospect, and indeed he became quite a good player very quickly. As a group we maybe should have cared more about his lack of size and strength, which capped his ceiling below that of the Devers and Bellinger types. This is an athlete whose physical peak came at age 23, and who has only had one above-average season since then, producing more like an average regular during the evaluation window. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 3 | Amed Rosario | SS | NYM | 21.2 | 7.6 | 193 | 65 | 45 | Rosario’s reckless approach undermined his fantastic natural feel to hit and held his offensive performance in the average-to-below range during his pre-free agency window. Unlike a lot of players from the 2017 rookie class, Rosario never had that huge season or two that would have made up for his couple of lackluster campaigns, including his 2023 walk year. He also isn’t an especially good defensive shortstop. Though I nailed his hit tool projection, I underrated the impact of Rosario’s free-swinging approach and over-projected his defense. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 4 | Dansby Swanson | SS | ATL | 23.0 | 21.2 | 38 | 65 | 60 | Tracking more like a 45- or 50-grade player until the shortened 2020 season, Swanson’s power leveled up in his late 20s, culminating in a monster contract year with the Braves in 2022. He didn’t quite hit the FV projected of him (had he hit for more power earlier in his career, like Matt Chapman, he would have), but he still became a star. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 10 | Anderson Espinoza | RHP | SDP | 18.9 | 0 | DNQ | 60 | 35+ | Right after this list was published, Espinoza suffered a rare series of injuries that prevented him from pitching again until 2021. He was probably over-projected independent of injury, and I can’t say I’d rank an A-ball arm this high again in part because Espinoza helped me learn my lesson. At the time (I was at Espinoza’s last spring outing before he started getting hurt over and over), he was showing three plus pitches and I was projecting that his command would improve enough for him to be an impact starter. His arm strength has been more average of late and his command never really arrived. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 11 | Ozzie Albies | 2B | ATL | 20.1 | 18.9 | 47 | 60 | 60 | This one was a bullseye, and Albies might have been one of the five most productive player from this rookie class had he had a healthy 2022. The way he did it was different than I projected, as I had a contact-oriented profile forecast for him. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 12 | Yadier Álvarez | RHP | LAD | 20.9 | 0 | DNQ | 60 | Bust | My very first day as a full-time baseball writer was spent at Camelback Ranch watching Reds and Dodgers prospects in extended spring training. That was the first time I saw Álvarez in person, and it was incredible. He was loose and fluid, incredibly projectable, and already sitting in the mid-to-upper 90s at 20 years old. He was much more talented and projectable than the typical college pitcher going near the top of the draft, and I lost my mind. I was not alone, as I became aware that there were several high-ranking executives who, either just before or just after he signed, had top-of-the-scale grades and projections on Yadi. The cracks in his command didn’t begin to show until the back half of 2017, after which cracks also showed in Álvarez’s coachability, to the point that the Dodgers had to discipline him. He barely pitched in the 2019-2021 window, elected free agency after the 2022 season and hasn’t been signed. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 13 | Cody Bellinger | 1B | LAD | 21.6 | 21.7 | 37 | 60 | 60 | With more than a third of his career output tied up in his incredible 2019 season, Bellinger was tracking like a 70 before he hurt his shoulder celebrating during Game 7 of the 2020 NLCS. Billed as a prospect with hit tool risk, Bellinger’s huge breakout came when he cut his K% into the teens. His career K% is close to the big league average, while Bellinger has gotten to all of the power and been every bit as great a defender as was projected. After two years of dour performance, he bounced back and made his prospect projection accurate with his big 2023. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 18 | Francis Martes | RHP | HOU | 21.2 | 0.2 | DNQ | 60 | Bust | In 2014, Houston traded Jarred Cosart, Enrique Hernández and Austin Wates to Miami for Martes, Colin Moran, and Jake Marisnick. Martes had a 2.73 FIP in a full season at Triple-A the year prior to this prospect ranking and looked like a slam dunk star. He struggled with walks but struck out nearly 40% of opposing hitters his rookie season. He had TJ the following year, then had a PED suspension in each of the next two years. He was released in 2021 and has been pitching in foreign leagues since then. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 19 | Lucas Giolito | RHP | CHW | 22.5 | 14 | 48 | 60 | 50 | Giolito had two or three seasons where he peaked as the Guy who everyone though he’d be, but it took a mechanical overhaul and the introduction of two new pitches for him to do it, including the changeup that would become his best offering by far. We have to take Giolito’s early-career, replacement-level struggles into account as we assess him here, as well as the little dip he’s experienced of late. He provides a great teaching moment in fastball/breaking ball interplay and utility, because his curveball was so big and cartoonishly loopy that big league hitters had no trouble identifying the pitch that had made so many high school and minor league hitters look like dorks. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 20 | Corey Ray | OF | MIL | 22.4 | 0 | DNQ | 60 | Org | I considered Ray to be the best prospect in the 2016 draft and for a minute, that felt correct. In 2017, Ray hit 34 homers and stole 61 bases while mostly playing at Double-A. He was striking out 30% of the time, however, and that should have been a clue that his hit tool was suspect enough to make his big league forecast feel precarious. There was a huge learning opportunity for me here regarding bat path. Ray’s swing was so long that he was constantly swinging underneath fastballs in the up-and-away portion of the strike zone. Righty fastballs often finish in that location, and if you’re a left-handed hitter with this particular hole in your swing, it tends to be a bad thing. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 22 | Rafael Devers | 3B | BOS | 20.3 | 21.2 | 38 | 55 | 60 | Three of Devers’ first four seasons were impressive for his age but only fairly productive compared to the rest of the league. As he’s become slightly more selective during the last few seasons, he’s leapt into a different stratosphere. Because he’s younger than a lot of other players from this class, Devers is more likely to continue to be a great player than guys whose decline phases are theoretically looming. But during his six-year window prior to free agency, he was a 60-grade player overall. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 23 | Manuel Margot | CF | SDP | 22.3 | 9.7 | 152 | 55 | 45 | Signed by Boston during the Obama administration, Margot turned out to be the best player San Diego got back in the 2015 Craig Kimbrel trade. He was evaluated as a do-it-all center fielder at this stage in his prospectdom, and while Margot has been a damn good big leaguer at times, he never developed the power required to match my projection for him and became a quintessential 45-grade player. Injuries have also been a consistent part of Margot’s career. After parts of four seasons in San Diego, he was traded to Tampa Bay for Emilio Pagán, and thereafter tended to platoon with guys like Josh Lowe and Kevin Kiermaier. He’s a career .255/.309/.385 hitter overall, but has been a .281/.341/.420 hitter against lefties and played plus defense at all three outfield positions, a contender’s part-time outfielder. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 26 | Tyler Glasnow | RHP | PIT | 23.4 | 9.8 | 104 | 55 | 55 | Injuries and inefficiency (especially early in his big league tenure) have marred Glasnow’s career to this point, and illustrate why pitchers tend to be ranked lower and more scarcely than hitters on Top 100 lists. On talent, Glasnow is a top 5-10 player from this rookie class, clearly, but fate has struck a cruel blow to his output and pitchers are more vulnerable to this kind of injury chaos. On actual production, he was not quite a 50. I think it’s fine to call this a collective “hit” for the group even though there’s a gap between our rankings and Glasnow’s production. His ability is undeniably special; he was properly evaluated. I’m not going to sit here and say the Pirates won the Chris Archer trade, but if part of the reason they parted with Glasnow, Shane Baz, and Austin Meadows was because they feared all three would have trouble staying healthy and productive, they were right about that part. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 28 | Reynaldo López | RHP | CHW | 23.1 | 9 | 112 | 55 | 45 | Signed by Washington, López was a Top 100 prospect when he was dealt as part of the Adam Eaton trade that helped push the 2019 Nationals across the finish line to immortality. The White Sox started López until his options ran out; in the two and a half seasons in which he’s been a full-time reliever, his fastball velocity has leapt and he’s become one of the steadier and more durable setup men in baseball. The two seasons in which López worked over 180 innings are carrying nearly half his WAR total (and he had an ERA over 5.00 in one of them). | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 29 | Jay Groome | LHP | BOS | 18.4 | 0 | DNQ | 55 | 35+ | At this point in my tenure at the site, I failed to appreciate how much time and risk should factor into the way these players are valued. Groome was an undeniably great talent in high school but every teenage pitcher is playing Russian Roulette with their ligaments every season for five years on their way to the big leagues, and Groome’s life was more complicated and volatile at home than I knew about. He was on San Diego’s 40-man last year and got roughed up at Triple-A. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 31 | Riley Pint | RHP | COL | 19.2 | 0 | DNQ | 55 | 35+ | Pint’s fastball shape was always going to cause it to play down a bit, but it’s still surprising that he’s only managed to pitch a third of a big league inning so far during his career given his combination of elite arm strength and breaking ball quality. There are people around baseball who think Pint would have turned out much better than this had he been developed by an org with a better track record of helping pitchers. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 33 | Delvin Pérez | SS | STL | 18.2 | 0 | DNQ | 55 | Org | Pérez looked like a potential five-tool shortstop in high school, but he failed a PED test prior to the draft and has never shown his pre-draft power in pro ball. He has kicked around the upper minors the last several seasons because of his defensive ability. I don’t think I’d totally move off of a similar high school player who tested positive today, but I certainly wouldn’t rank him 33rd overall. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 34 | Clint Frazier | OF | NYY | 22.4 | -0.7 | DNQ | 55 | 35+ | Monster bat speed wasn’t enough to make Frazier a successful big leaguer, and he has hopped around a couple different rosters during the back half of his evaluation window. In his best couple of seasons, Frazier hit for power in line with his projections, but his hit tool turned out to be more of a 30 than a 50. How were we all fooled so badly? The intoxicating smell of Frazier’s draft status definitely biased me for longer than was ideal, and he only K’d at a 21-22% clip in the several seasons leading up to his big league debut. Perhaps this is not the type of athlete we should be putting premium grades on; Frazier was more of a tightly wound, overly muscular stiff guy. He also is rumored to have struggled to fit into that Yankees clubhouse. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 39 | Robert Gsellman | RHP | NYM | 23.5 | 2.3 | 276 | 55 | 40 | When is an uptick in a player’s performance going to regress to their mean, and when is it actual development? Gsellman looked great in 2016, when he was throwing harder than ever before as a starter and pitched so well in the big leagues that he was one out away from losing rookie eligibility. His fastball lost a tick the next season and it wasn’t long before Gsellman was shifted into lower-leverage multi-inning relief. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 40 | Blake Rutherford | OF | NYY | 19.7 | 0 | DNQ | 55 | Org | Rutherford was an old-for-the-class high school prospect who got famous as an underclassman. His career is a lesson in adjusting draft evaluations due to age, and his low-ball swing was not built to hit for power in other parts of the zone. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 45 | Bradley Zimmer | CF | CLE | 24.2 | 2.9 | DNQ | 55 | 35+ | Zimmer’s speed and ability to play a passable center field kept him gainfully employed for a half decade while he struck out 35% of the time, far too much for him to get to his raw power and claim a stable role. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 47 | Jeff Hoffman | RHP | COL | 24.1 | 2.4 | 272 | 55 | 40 | Hoffman was a top five draft prospect at East Carolina until he blew out during his draft year. His style of pitching was ill-suited for Colorado and he struggled badly there for years before finding some stability in Cincinnati, especially after he was moved to the bullpen. In 2023, he had a three-tick velo spike in Philly and pitched like a good setup man, but throughout his pre-free agency years he was more like a fifth starter or low-leverage middle reliever. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 48 | Kevin Maitan | 3B | ATL | 17.0 | 0 | DNQ | 55 | Org | I saw Maitan in Florida the fall before this Top 100 list came out, and he was already noticeably heavier than he was as an amateur. There are scouts who always considered Maitan to be overrated, who hated his swing from the start and thought he wouldn’t hit. After he was made a free agent as part of Atlanta’s bonus packaging scandal, he got another multi-million dollar bonus from the Angels, and his issues continued to worsen in their org. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 50 | Josh Bell | 1B | PIT | 24.5 | 8.7 | 172 | 55 | 45 | Bell set a record for a second round bonus amount ($5 million) when the Pirates drafted him. He’s performed almost exactly as he was projected on offense but has fallen short from a WAR value standpoint. He’s a career .260/.347/.453 hitter who has played at least 143 games in each of the last six full seasons, and he’s hit at least 20 homers four times. Aside from the pandemic season, Bell has been an above-average offensive performer and has a career 114 wRC+, with strikeout, walk and SLG output in line with his scouting projections. But Bell’s terrible first base defense and the positional adjustment in WAR drags him way, way down to just under 9 WAR for his career. Bell has the seventh-lowest defensive adjustment in baseball since 2016, but he’s 37th in adjusted runs created during that span. Is our positional adjustment being too harsh on him? It feels like one of the best 50 hitters of the last seven years should feel good to have had on a Top 100 list, but Bell is a really terrible defender and there have been enough first baseman who’ve comfortably outslugged him since he debuted to consider him a little shy of average at the position. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 51 | Ian Happ | 2B | CHC | 22.5 | 14.2 | 87 | 55 | 50 | Happ was tracking like a 45-grade player until the 2022 season, when he cut his strikeout rate and had two 60-grade seasons at the end of his evaluation window even though he transitioned to left field full-time during that span. Happ was not a very good second base or center field defender, and I slightly over-projected his second base defense, which is the biggest reason for the glancing blow level of accuracy here. I think he was “ranked” in the correct spot, but his FV grade was a little too heavy because my premium FV tiers ran too deep at this time. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 52 | Germán Márquez | RHP | COL | 21.9 | 17.4 | 29 | 55 | 55 | Another hit, Márquez was actually tracking better than this before he ended his evaluation window with a mediocre 2022 and an injured 2023. Incredibly athletic despite his thicker build, Márquez was among the most productive hitting pitchers in baseball while NL hurlers were still tasked with swinging a bat. The Rockies stole him from Tampa Bay in a deal for Corey Dickerson. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 59 | Josh Hader | LHP | MIL | 22.8 | 11.3 | 79 | 55 | 55 | This is where using WAR as the guideline for assessing players in this way gets tricky. Hader has been one of the more dominant relievers in baseball for the last several years and all of us would rank him well above where he slots if we’re just looking at WAR. I’ve made a manual adjustment to his actual performance grade to reflect common sense. Ideally prospects like this (Kyle Harrison and Ricky Tiedemann are good 2024 examples) would be ranked near the back of my 55 FV tier, guys who might have relief risk but are nasty enough to be elite closers if they can’t start. I think it’s reasonable to prefer to have Hader’s career so far over those of Moncada, Happ, Montgomery, and probably even Márquez, but once we get up to Albies and the guys above him, it’s a little too rich. That 55 FV area feels like it was right. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 61 | Aaron Judge | RF | NYY | 24.8 | 41.4 | 6 | 55 | 80 | The apex player from this class, Judge generally occupied a spot in the middle third of our collective lists due to concerns about his strikeouts. He struck out at a 44% clip (!) during his September call-up prior to this offseason’s evaluation. Still, Judge had unique size, power, and athleticism, and his theoretical ceiling alone probably should have weighed heavier in the way he was pref’d at the time. Judge has routinely produced like a Hall of Fame player. He has two historic seasons (his rookie year and 2022) under his belt and probably would have had more if not for injuries, which have cost him 50 games or so in two of his last four seasons. I initially put a 70 on Judge’s performance, but came back here and retconned it in 2026 after a couple more years of context, and a change in my thinking about injuries and prorating performance to better align with the player’s talent. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 64 | Yohander Méndez | LHP | TEX | 22.0 | 0 | DNQ | 55 | 35+ | Méndez’s fastball velo from 2016 never really showed up again, as he sat mostly 92-93 mph in his 47 total big league innings. The injuries stacked up, and Méndez was also subject a team-imposed suspension at one point for seeking medical treatment outside the org. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 65 | Amir Garrett | LHP | CIN | 24.7 | 0.3 | 316 | 55 | 40 | What happened here? Garrett was moved to the bullpen after his rookie year and had three great seasons in relief before his command collapsed after the 2020 campaign. He basically had no shot of being a 55 as soon as he was ‘penned, but it looked like he’d be a nasty enough reliever to maybe be a 50. Instead, his final three years of the evaluation window were bad enough to dilute his performance into this range. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 70 | Luiz Gohara | LHP | ATL | 20.5 | 0 | DNQ | 55 | Bust | A lefty leviathan with, at the time, the hardest fastball of any starter in pro baseball, Gohara was jettisoned from Seattle along with several other talented players who had worn out their welcome through a perceived lack of effort. He pitched very well for the Braves in 2017, but his career came to an abrupt end after just shy of 50 career innings in part due to a shoulder injury that caused his comeback attempt with the Angels in 2020 to stall. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 71 | Jharel Cotton | RHP | OAK | 25.0 | 0.7 | DNQ | 55 | 35+ | I underappreciated the ways in which Cotton’s fastball was not going to play against big league hitters. He was shelled in his one full season as a starter, then quickly ‘penned and didn’t have the velo spike he would have needed to stick around. He was an up/down bulk reliever who is now playing in Japan. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 72 | Matt Strahm | LHP | KCR | 25.2 | 5.2 | 181 | 55 | 40+ | Projected as a mid-rotation starter, Strahm was never really given an opportunity to start by the Royals, and it wasn’t until his fourth big league season that the Padres gave it a try for a couple of months. Strahm thrived in a swingman role with Philadelphia in 2023, the best season of his career, but has mostly been a solid lefty middle reliever to this point. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 73 | Dominic Smith | 1B | NYM | 21.6 | -0.5 | 444 | 50 | 35+ | Aside from his white hot run in 2020, Smith has simply never had enough in-game power output to be considered a good everyday first baseman. His relatively low walk rates in the minors should have also been a sign that he wouldn’t clear the offensive bar at first base. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 75 | Hunter Renfroe | OF | SDP | 25.0 | 9.9 | 148 | 50 | 45 | Does Renfroe feel a little undervalued by WAR? He’s among the top 30 home run hitters in baseball since he debuted and his all-world arm changes the way runners make decisions on the basepaths in ways I don’t think are properly captured in his data. Then again, he is a low-OBP corner guy, reaching base at a .300 clip. Ideally this is a player for whom you have a lefty-hitting partner on your roster, which I think makes my forecast a little too bullish. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 90 | Raimel Tapia | CF | COL | 23.0 | 1.4 | 410 | 50 | 40 | Tapia was written up as a 60-hit/40-power center fielder but has performed like a 60-hit/30-power left fielder. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 101 | Franklin Pérez | RHP | HOU | 19.2 | 0 | DNQ | 50 | Injuries | Pérez dealt with severe injury perhaps more than any other prospect since I’ve started doing this job. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 101 | Sean Newcomb | LHP | ATL | 23.6 | 2.9 | 253 | 50 | 35+ | Young Nuke had command-driven relief risk but managed a strong first couple of big league seasons as a starter despite his poor command. The Braves decided to shift him into the bullpen in 2019, and Newcomb has remained a reliever while bouncing around to a few clubs (Cubs, Giants, A’s) the last several seasons. After a promising start, he has been more of an up/down reliever. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 101 | Matt Chapman | 3B | OAK | 23.8 | 27.3 | 23 | 50 | 65 | Another player whose minor league strikeout issues drastically altered his standing as a prospect, Chapman struck out at a 30% or greater clip as soon as he reached Double-A. In a sense, the concerns about his hit tool have been correct, and Chapman has run hot and cold for most of the last four seasons. But his elite defense and ability to get to his power have driven star-level production, especially during his first few campaigns. He’s performed like a 65-grade player, not quite consistent enough to be a true 70. He was under-ranked pretty badly on everyone’s lists. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 101 | Kyle Freeland | LHP | COL | 23.7 | 12.4 | 64 | 50 | 50 | Freeland had one huge 200-inning, 4-WAR season but has otherwise been a low-K backend starter with a 4.60 career FIP. From a WAR standpoint I hit on this projection, but if you wanted to argue that on talent Freeland is more like a no. 4/5 innings- eater than the mid-rotation types I try to rank on the 100, you probably could. He’s done this well in half a decade of pitching at Coors Field, so let’s give him the benefit of the doubt. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 101 | Jeimer Candelario | 1B | CHC | 23.2 | 11.5 | 118 | 50 | 50 | A somewhat inconsistent year-to-year performer, Candy’s huge walk year propelled his overall performance into 50-grade range. He’s now a .243/.325/.414 career hitter and has stayed at third base for longer than my graduation time scouting report anticipated. During Top 100 work every year, I have a “Stable Bat-Only” cluster of players who get compared to one another as the list gets made. Candy is a quintessential example of this archetype and a great barometer for what the bottom of that group should look like. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 101 | Frankie Montas | RHP | OAK | 23.9 | 9.6 | 106 | 50 | 50 | Remember that Frankie had a ton of relief risk as a prospect and it took him the better part of three big league seasons before he found his footing as a starter. Signed by Boston, he was traded to the White Sox as part of a package for Jake Peavy, then was sent to the Dodgers as part of a three-team swap centered around Todd Frazier, and then to Oakland with others for Josh Reddick and Rich Hill; he was eventually flipped to the Yankees at the 2022 deadline. Montas broke out at age 26 when he started throwing a splitter. He had three seasons as a dynamite mid-rotation type, though only two seasons with more than 100 innings pitched during his pre-free agency window, with some time lost to injury and some to a PED suspension. He produced right on the cusp of the 50 FV level in spite of persistent injury. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 101 | Luke Weaver | RHP | STL | 23.4 | 6.9 | 143 | 50 | 40 | Weaver was tracking like a 45 in his first three big league seasons, but he struggled to stay healthy after Arizona acquired him in the Paul Goldschmidt trade and hasn’t crested 1.0 WAR in a single season since 2019. He struggled to find a good breaking ball and ended up pitching like a backend starter. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 101 | David Paulino | RHP | HOU | 23.0 | 0.1 | DNQ | 50 | 35+ | Paulino had wrapped a season with 1.83 ERA at Double-A Corpus Christi prior to his ranking here. His 90 IP that year were by far the most he’s had in a single season of his career. He tested positive for PEDs in 2017 and has barely pitched in the big leagues since. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 101 | Tyler Jay | LHP | MIN | 22.8 | 0 | DNQ | 50 | Injuries | Jay dealt with many injuries and at a certain point his peak stuff never returned. After not pitching since 2019, he made a comeback with the Mets Triple-A affiliate in Syracuse late last year. He was only sitting 90-91 mph, but his slider is still pretty nasty. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| 101 | Oscar De La Cruz | RHP | CHC | 21.9 | 0 | DNQ | 50 | Injuries | …And a PED suspension | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| NR | Luis Castillo | RHP | CIN | 24.1 | 21.7 | 12 | 45 | 60 | This was a weird one. Castillo entered 2017 having made just three starts above A-ball, and he K’d just shy of 6.5 per 9 IP with the Marlins High-A affiliate throughout his time there in 2015 and 2016. At the time, it was very difficult to have a truly thorough understanding of mid-minors players who I hadn’t personally seen; as my ability to access video and source data and the thoughts of scouts has improved since 2017, I like to think I wouldn’t have under-projected Castillo’s changeup quality or command quite so badly if I had it to do today. I can see why his delivery made me think he had relief risk, but his command should have trumped that, and baseball has a better understanding now of the advantages lower-release pitchers like this have when it comes to missing bats at the top of the zone. Castillo has evolved and his slider usage now outpaces his changeup, which hasn’t missed bats nearly as often as it did during the early portion of his career. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| NR | Sam Travis | 1B | BOS | 23.4 | -1.1 | DNQ | 45 | Org | Travis simply didn’t have the physical tools to bang at anything close to the level of an average first baseman. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| NR | Robert Stephenson | RHP | CIN | 23.9 | 2.1 | 279 | 45 | 40 | The Reds shifted Stephenson into the bullpen half way through his rookie year and he struggled to find his footing until 2019. He’s been passed around the fringe of several rosters during the last few years, pitching especially well starting with when the Pirates pulled him off the scrap heap in 2022. In all, he’s performed like a pretty typical fastball/slider middle reliever. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| NR | Matt Olson | 1B | OAK | 22.8 | 24.6 | 27 | 40 | 65 | Yikes. Olson ended up having so much power that he’s third among first basemen in WAR since 2017. His blurb from the time overstates how bad the strikeout issues were in the minors. Upon reflection, this feels like I was looking for data to confirm apprehension I had about Olson’s unique swing, which not only turned out to be fine but is being copied by some other young hitters. Olson’s power makes every swing he takes a dangerous one, and he’s been awesome despite having one of the lower contact rates among first basemen. This is one of my all-time biggest misses and a rough unilateral whiff for the group. I only remember one person stumping for Olson at this time and it was former managing editor Dave Cameron. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| NR | Brandon Nimmo | CF | NYM | 23.8 | 22 | 35 | 45 | 60 | Aside from a 2018 season in which he showed an unusual amount of pop (owing perhaps to the juiced ball), Nimmo was tracking more like a 45-grade player until he cut his strikeout rate starting in 2020. He had three big-time seasons (four if you prorate his 2020 across an entire campaign) at the end of the evaluation window, as he traded OBP for power while remaining an average center field defender. I had a fourth outfielder grade on Nimmo and he turned into a star. I find some solace in knowing that it took a pretty significant mid-window adjustment for Nimmo to make a leap; my evaluation of his ability at the time was sound, but he changed in ways I didn’t anticipate. He’s a good reminder that prospects who play viable defense at a premium position, and who have a core offensive competency (in this case, on-base ability), tend to pan out. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| NR | Jordan Montgomery | SP | NYY | 24.1 | 14.1 | 46 | 45 | 50 | This one seemed like it was going to be a bullseye until Montgomery’s huge 2023. Injuries stymied his early-career output, but he was a very efficient innings-eating force for the last three seasons of his evaluation window, during which he began to throw harder even as his body seemingly backed up. My tool and pitch grades were too tightly clustered around 50 at this time, and with a more accurate evaluation of Montgomery’s stuff for the last half decade — 40-grade fastball, plus command of a plus changeup and plus curveball — I probably would have 50’d him. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| NR | Yandy Díaz | 3B | CLE | 25.5 | 12.8 | 103 | 45 | 50 | Until the last two seasons Yandy was performing in lockstep with my forecast from a value standpoint, but not really from a scouting point of view. I loved Díaz’s contact and OBP ability as a prospect, but I also thought the then-shortstop would be a great defensive third baseman. Instead, Díaz got super buff and transitioned from bad third baseman to fine first baseman. He’s performed like a nearly elite offensive player each of the past two seasons as he’s finally gotten to more of his power in games. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| NR | Teoscar Hernández | OF | TOR | 24.3 | 12.6 | 106 | 45 | 50 | Part of why Hernández wasn’t on the Top 100 was because he was such a bad defensive outfielder. The Astros traded him to Toronto in the middle of his 2017 graduation year as part of a package for Francisco Liriano. Hernández has performed like a 45-grade player with a monster three-year peak (when you prorate 2020) in the middle of his pre-free agency tenure. Remember when the Blue Jays played him in center field for half of the 2019 season? Teo’s plus-plus power helped him overcome 30-grade plate discipline and a below-average hit tool. He’s a great teaching case for guys like Tyler Soderstrom and Triston Casas: When there’s this much power, be patient. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| NR | Rhys Hoskins | 1B | PHI | 23.9 | 11.6 | 117 | 45 | 50 | When you prorate his performance so Hoskins isn’t penalized for his 2023 injury, he performed like an exactly average first baseman during his Phillies tenure thanks to his special power and above-average plate discipline. I severely over-projected Hoskins’ defense, which is probably more like a 30 than the half-assed 45 I dropped on him at the time. As with Teoscar, there was enough power and big league proximity here to merit stuffing Hoskins in the middle of the Top 100 despite his other issues. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| NR | Mitch Haniger | RF | SEA | 26.1 | 11.4 | 121 | 45 | 50 | Another player whose injuries limited his WAR output during the last half decade, Haniger had two or three really huge seasons in spite of pretty substantial splits, which were chief among the reasons he was evaluated as more of a platoon outfielder when he was a prospect. He broke late and was undervalued because of his age. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| NR | Marco Gonzales | SP | SEA | 25.0 | 10.2 | 93 | 40 | 45 | A classic command-oriented lefty with a plus changeup, Marco had two seasons with plus, All-Star WAR output and might have had a third if not for the pandemic. In fact, Gonzales’ rate stats in his 11 2020 starts were pretty easily the best of his career. A lot of his WAR generation comes from volume (including a 200-inning 2019 season), while his ERAs and FIPs were in the mid-4.00s, more in line with a no. 4/5 starter. But his WAR total here was probably robbed of what would have been a career-best season, so I’ve put my thumb on the scale just a little bit. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| NR | Paul DeJong | SS | STL | 23.5 | 9.4 | 155 | 45 | 45 | DeJong was sent straight to Double-A in his first full pro season and slugged .532 as a rookie the following year. An aggressive approach caught up with him over time and he ended his evaluation window with a .229/.299/.417 line befitting a slugging second division shortstop. This was a hit. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| NR | Albert Almora Jr. | CF | CHC | 22.8 | 2.1 | 387 | 45 | 40 | Almora had one full season’s worth of above-average offensive performance at the very start of his big league career. After that, his hitting fell off enough to consider him a glove-first fifth outfielder rather than a complementary regular type of fourth outfielder like Manuel Margot. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| NR | Tyler Wade | UTIL | NYY | 22.2 | 0.2 | DNQ | 45 | 40 | I had Wade projected as a premium utility guy and while he certainly developed rare defensive versatility, I over-projected his hit and power tools, which are more like 40/20 than the 55/30 I assigned him. The difference is Wade has been more like a low-end utility guy, a sixth infielder and fifth outfielder in one. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| NR | Derek Fisher | OF | HOU | 23.4 | -0.4 | DNQ | 45 | Org | Fisher had plus power and plus-plus speed, but he never developed feel to hit or enough feel for defense to play center field. The Blue Jays and Brewers gave him opportunities in his mid-20s to see if things would click, and they didn’t. I have a gap between Bradley Zimmer’s eval and Fisher’s even though they were similar offensive players because Zimmer’s center field defense gave him more roster utility. | FG Rank | Name | Pos | Org | 2017 Age | Career WAR | WAR Rank | FV Grade | Actual Grade |
| NR | Nick Williams | OF | PHI | 23.4 | -0.4 | DNQ | 45 | 35+ | Williams was traded from Texas to Philadelphia in the Cole Hamels deal (Hamels and Jake Diekman for Williams, Jorge Alfaro, Jerad Eickhoff, Matt Harrison, Alec Asher and Jake Thompson. Not great!). He was a hyper-aggressive, sweet-swinging corner outfielder with big power and poor defense. After a couple of fair offensive seasons in Philly during which his overall WAR output was limited by his defense, Williams’ performance tanked and he had such a bad 2019 that it put his entire career WAR under water. |
Eric Longenhagen is from Catasauqua, PA and currently lives in Tempe, AZ. He spent four years working for the Phillies Triple-A affiliate, two with Baseball Info Solutions and two contributing to prospect coverage at ESPN.com. Previous work can also be found at Sports On Earth, CrashburnAlley and Prospect Insider.
Numerous players who have accrued career WAR are null in that column (Vlad Jr, Eloy, Cease, Alcantara, etc.)
Yup – as noted in the piece, the WAR totals are only included for those players who graduated from rookie status in 2017.
Whoops, thanks – hastily read it as “since” 2017 rather than “in” 2017. Appreciate it.
And it seems that may have also led to no analysis of those players. Acuña Jr. another one.
Presumably they will be discussed in future columns discussing players who exhaust their rookie eligibility in later years…
It’s right in the article whose WAR totals are included and whose aren’t. But good news: if you want to know the other guys’ WAR totals clicking on their names the first time they appear in the article is free.
It is a bit confusing to include them in the same table rather than separately.
It could also be helpful to include prior years’ rankings as well. Especially for some top prospects, it’s painfully easy to see that they are elite in their last years. Analysis of Acuña going into 2017 would quite frankly be more interesting than analysis of him going into 2018.
I was (erroneously) offering what I thought was a table correction, not lamenting my inability to find their WAR elsewhere. Thanks.
No need to be an asshole
Look around for a mirror.
How exactly was I an asshole? Did I condescendingly tell someone a basic fact to feel superior, or was I simply mistaken about something?
Wonderful article. I always appreciate retrospectives from analysts like you! It’s a really tough job and its clear you’ve gotten better at it as the years have gone by.
Looking at the 2017 lists, it’s remarkable to think how far we’ve come since then. I think now we are very very careful about prospects that (1) have severe flaws in their hit tools despite their power and speed (Moncada, Rosario) or (2) don’t have power (e.g., Benintendi, Robles).
You want to know which picks look great? The guys whose carrying offensive tool was power, even if they had some issues with holes in their swing. Bellinger was ranked #13, Jimenez ranked #15 (although his career was wrecked by injuries), Devers was ranked #22, Aaron Judge was ranked #61, and Matt Chapman was tied for #101. Some others are Rhys Hoskins, Teoscar Hernandez, and Matt Olson. Acuna and Fernando Tatis Jr too, although they were still teenagers then.
How many of guys like that didn’t make it? AJ Reed? Rowdy Tellez? Bobby Bradley? Christin Stewart? But nobody was thinking they were going to make an impact anyway. Jury is still out on Alex Kiriloff and Tyler O’Neill, I guess. Hunter Renfroe goes up and down. Clint Frazier, but he was destroyed by concussions.
The lesson: Find guys with 70 or 80 grade raw power. Buy stock in James Wood, Junior Caminero, Wyatt Langford, and Brock Wilken. Coby Mayo and Jackson Chourio too, although I don’t think their power is quite as extreme . Keep your eye on Kevin Alcantara, Marco Luciano, Spencer Jones, and Owen Caissie–I’ve been skeptical of the of all of them, but you can never give up on raw power.
One must also consider the changing offensive environment. Prospects being evaluated in 2017 are done so based on their likely success in <=2016 hitting environments. Power is at more of a premium today than it was then.
It’s hard to predict both how a prospect will develop AND how the game will change
On the pitching side, and I think this lesson still hasn’t really been learned, is the value of command. It’s the most important tool there is and yet still consistently undervalued in comparison to the big fastball or big breaking ball.
I’m not so sure. German, Giolito, Glasnow, Montas, and Castillo are the only ones who made a big impact as a starter from that class and all of them were “stuff” guys except German. Kyle Freeland and Marco Gonzales were okay for a little while before it all fell apart.
I do think that we’ve learned at least a little bit about projecting on teenage pitchers, though. Jay Groome and Riley Pint were listed at #29 and #31 on that list having been picked that previous summer. Cal Quantrill was at #25. Anderson Espinosa was at #10. Kopech and Alvarez were also super high and were only 20. We have absolutely no idea what pitchers can do until they’re in high-A. At least. It’s probably more like AA.
Jordan Montgomery says hello…
It’s not meant to be a 2017 class-specific comment. Command is important no matter which class you’re in.
But either way, of all of those guys you mentioned (and other than Castillo it’s a very mixed bag of pitchers), the lowest FV they had for command was 45. German, Freehand, and Gonzales had 60s. Giolito was a 50. These were all guys who were projected to have acceptable to excellent command. And, of course, most of them only got good (Glasnow, Giolito, and Montas being great examples) after they harnessed their walk rate. Marquez was successful because he always had great command.
Compare it to someone like Forrest Whitley, who before he had other issues attained a higher prospect rating than any of those guys, yet is/was a 35/35. In the real world without a sea change in ability he was going to have issues being anything other than a power bullpen arm, yet was a consensus top-10 prospect because of the huge stuff.
I think everyone agrees that command is important. The main question is whether it’s easier to teach command to someone with hellacious stuff or whether it’s better to improve the stuff of a guy with good command. Whitley was tagged with a 55 command in 2018, and a 50 command in 2019.
My sense is that different teams have very different ideas of which is easier to do. The Guardians love taking guys with plus command and teaching them to throw their stuff nastier, with Shane Bieber being the most prominent example. For the Brewers, they like guys with nasty stuff and they want to teach them just enough command (Peralta was very much like this, Burnes was also more or less in this category).
The main problem is–at always has been–that pitchers break or develop the yips. Alex Reyes and Anderson Espinoza broke, Yadier Alvarez and Riley Pint got the yips, and Whitley had both. I think Francis Martes and Michael Kopech got busted on PEDs and then got hurt? Although Kopech’s PEDs bust happened early. Giolito’s career has been a rollercoaster. I think the main thing we’ve learned is that you can’t count on anything until pretty late in their development.
Meh. Delmon Young, Brandon Wood, Alex Gordon, Jesus Montero, Pedro Alvarez, Miguel Sano, Javier Baez, Wil Myers, Eric Hosmer, Moustakas etc, etc all had huge raw power too.
All types of players bust/underperform expectations
I don’t know how much of those guys actually had 70 or 80 grade raw power. It’s hard to say because the Fangraphs database doesn’t go back that far–if you have a BA subscription maybe you can see the scouting reports back then. And we also didn’t have the same sort of EV data back then.
I went back to MLB’s page, which isn’t ideal because they don’t break out power into raw and game. Sano and Gallo definitely had that raw power though (although you didn’t mention Gallo). Both of them had what you might consider fatally flawed hit tools. Baez also had that and it nearly worked despite him having a fatally-flawed hit tool. Gary Sanchez and Jorge Soler are listed as having 65 power, which in retrospect is pretty funny (both of them definitely have 70 raw, maybe more).
Gordon was definitely viewed as a guy with good power that played up because of his hit tool.
But Sano vs. Gallo is absolutely the crux of it – they’re similar offensive players, but Gallo’s still in the league because he’s not just a bat.
Justin Maxwell was deeply unlucky to play when he did – if he were 5 years younger, he’d have had a 10 year career.
Yeah, I’d take it a step further to say it’s about athletes with huge raw power (although Alex Gordon is an odd placement on this list, given that he was both an excellent player for many years and always viewed as a 25-30 guy with a top average, even at the peak of his prospect stock).
Wood is the only guy on that list who didn’t manage a 90+ wRC+.
But that isn’t true either. Jo Adell sucks, Lewis Brinson, Kyle Lewis, etc.
Alex Gordon was supposed to be the 2nd coming of George Brett and was an automatic out for the first few years of his career. Barely cracked league average for the careeer
A) I’m talking about the list you supplied, mate.
B) Lewis’s knees were already shot when he took a pitch to his bare skull…and he STILL has a career wRC+ over 90 to go with 2.3 WAR in 580 PA!
C) No one’s accused Adell of being good on the field or the bases…and Brinson was always a 60 power guy (MLB had him at 55 at the absolute peak of his prospect-dom)
D) Alex Gordon had a damn good career, regardless of idiotic expectations based on a single minor league season…which took place in an absolute bandbox by Texas League standards.
What what what and….what.
You said athletes with raw power. I gave you counter examples
Lewis can’t hit. Is a bust. Seems clear
Are we not talking about performance relative to expectations? Adell was consensus top 5. Is bad.
Gordon fell well short of offensive expectations. Again…was consensus top 5. Had nothing to do with one minor league season, lol. He was picked 2nd overall.
There is no teams in the history of ever who wouldn’t sign up for 32 war for the 1 pick, let alone the number 2. How can you say that is a bust? Getting 32 war career out of Harper would of been a bust, but lets go back in history and look at how many 1 picks came close to Alex Gordon’s career.
If you go back to 2010 (Harper year) we have Harper, and Cole, Correa (same war exactly as Gordon). That is it. Adley could get there. Swanson could get there. Calling Gordon a bust is just way out of bounds.
My son…if don’t understand that 32 WAR is a fucking outstanding career for a “consensus top 5” prospect, much less a guy who was “picked 2nd overall,” this interaction really isn’t worth my time.
That said…it certainly tracks with your not grokking that “the list you supplied” refers to the players you listed in your initial reply to ST.
Have a nice life, I guess?
Like every decade or so a Josh Hamilton or Bryce Harper is available and I guess getting 32 war out of them in their career would be considered a bust. But guess what? Only one of those two guys had as good of a career as Alex Gordon.
What part of ‘underperforming offensive expectations’ is so difficult to understand? He was billed as an elite hitter. Was far from that.
Feels a little like your fault for trusting someone who tells you that anyone is the 2nd coming of George Brett. I remember Gordon being among the most highly touted prospects in baseball, but not like the way people talked about Harper, for example.
Yeah, he was definitely in the Jay Bruce tier of “Top 5 Prospect.”
Not to mention…no one ever accused George Brett of being a massive power hitter, either!
He hit that home run that one time but then they called it an out because his bat was sticky so he murdered Enrico Palazzo but then they re-reviewed it and said “nah all good boss” and Enrico Palazzo came back from the dead and saved the queen by killing Reggie Jackson and then Elvis’s wife married Enrico Palazzo and OJ Simpson was there too before he killed that nice couple in Brentwood.
I am certain that’s exactly how it happened
It’s genuinely quite funny that yer man’s “proof” that Gordon was viewed as having “Elite Power” is that overzealous Royals fans called him “The Next George Brett.”
Brett was an 80 hit/55 power guy!
Enrico Palazzo did nothing wrong!
I see a few busts there. But then also multiple guys who didn’t come close to busting. Calling Baez, Gordon, Myers, Hosmer, Moustakas a bust is incorrect. 10-32+ war (Gordon) in the mlb isn’t busting.
“Bust/underperforming expectations”
Reading: helps
Just take the loss my guy
Not to mention that Gordon’s a perfect example of a guy whose middling raw power played up in college and the minors because of his hit tool, necessitating a change of approach when he got to Kauffman.
Spot on about the power, it really helps narrow down hitters who might have higher ceilings. The best thing to watch is their contact rates (zone and outside) along with the newer, popular EV90. Then it is a matter of finding their sea legs.
Guys with speed tools, it becomes a matter of how they utilize what power they use.
I think the thing I learned from this group is to not worry so much about a hole in the swing. Guys find a way to get the raw power to play when it’s this extreme. They might tone the swing down, like Bellinger, or find a way to just get the bat on the ball like Judge. Jackson Chourio is kind of in the Bellinger category, while James Wood is more in the Judge category (not in terms of actual success obviously, those guys had crazy seasons, just in terms of what they need to do). Caminero needs to figure out pitch selection. Langford is a little different, where he doesn’t have a hole in his swing at all. My only concerns with him are defensive.
Love the piece!
I will say that I think Frazier’s multiple catastrophic concussions may have played a slightly larger role in his hit falling off a cliff than his muscles or his long hair.
I’m also a bit confused by the scaling of the “Actual Grade” section – Monty and Happ are pretty firm 3-win players who land quite a bit closer to Chapman than Chapman does to Judge in terms of both total value and on a rate basis.
Not sure I can find a way to them being 50s, Dansby at 60, and Judge at 70, with Chapman at 65.
But that’s all nitpicks in an awesome, awesome piece!
If we are looking at things just in terms of value for the upcoming season, then I would agree. But Chapman has been much more valuable over his career than Montgomery or Happ. Chapman has 27.4 career WAR, Montgomery has 14.2 and Happ has 14.4.
Ah, okay – that means the table is off.
And even so…that makes it equidistant between Happ/Montgomery and Chapman/Judge.
Like I said, it’s definitely a nitpick, or even a knock on Chapman, who I do think is a 65!
I just think it should be 55 for Happ/Monty and 75 for Judge, based on the rest of the table.
Eric is grading these players based on his grade definitions, and no matter what you perceive as the WAR gap between the players, they are graded accurately. A 70 is a top 5 hitter; a 65 is a consistent all-star performer. Chapman has been a consistent all-star 3b performer; Happ and Montgomery are not close to that standard at their positions, and are merely above-average at them (55).
Judge at 70 instead of 75 is reasonable to me given his availability issues. Judge is probably a top 3 and not top 5 bat when available, but grouping him in the top 5 is reasonable given how much time he has missed over this span, as most of the competition for that title over this span (Soto, Betts, etc) have not missed so much time themselves.
I decided I wanted to follow this up by looking at the numbers. There are 6 position players to total at least 35 fWAR since the start of 2017. Here they are with their PA and fWAR totals:
Betts: 4160 / 43.7
Judge: 3524 / 42.0
Ramirez: 4151 / 39.7
Lindor: 4305 / 38.5
Trout: 2973 / 37.9
Freeman: 4308 / 36.8
Guys who got later starts are a bit lower (Soto is 15th). Chapman, incidentally, is 17th.
Happ is 73rd.
Chapman is properly valued at a 65.
Mate…re-read my comment.
I agreed that Chapman is a 65, haha!
My issue is with Happ and Montgomery being listed as 50s, rather than 55s.
…and that list of 35+ WAR players is damn good evidence that calling Judge as 75 is discounting him based on his availability issues.
His WAR is closer to Mookie’s than Ramirez’s, despite those two having essentially a season’s more PA!
For context on how bizarre the Monty grade is…Kyle Freeland is also a 50 on this. Which come on, is absolutely ridiculous even if he is pitching in Colorado.
In the Scouting Primer from a few years ago, 70 FV was defined as “Top 10 Player in Baseball” and 80 FV defined as “Top 5 Player in Baseball.”
Whether you start in 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, or 2022 through 2023, Judge and Mookie are the Top 2 position players in the game…and Shohei Ohtani is Shohei Ohtani.
Frazier also has a shit work ethic. I have several mutual friends with him, and he just doesn’t have what it takes. His potential was massive
Too muscular AND no work ethic…and none of it mattered until his brain got knocked to mush.
Frazier’s hitting took a significant turn south after the concussions. I believe that’s why everyone “missed” on his ranking.
“Normal” people can have lingering effects of concussions for weeks, months, or even years. Now, make your job require sub-second visual processing of a fast-moving, spinning projectile and the body coordination to apply force with a large stick.
Look at Anthony Rizzo last year; he was having his best season in multiple years until his concussion, and then he was just unplayably bad (in addition to the fact that, you know, he shouldn’t have been playing because he had a f***ing concussion).
Head injuries are no joke. I think it’s truly impossible to judge whether his physique or his attitude was the primary part of his story or it was the concussion. Likely, it’s some combination of the three, but I’d weigh the severe head injury (when he fell backwards into that wall, it was brutal to watch) as a larger factor.
All of this.
Kid may have been on track to being a “disappointing” Jay Bruce type when he broke his brain…but I’m not gonna dismiss the fact that he broke his brain when we talk about “work ethic,” either.
Kudos to you, Eric, for openly sharing your misses and thoughts behind them. And kudos to you for learning from it and evolving into the evaluator you are today. You are a HUGE reason why I pay my fangraphs’ dues every year!
The commentary was a great read – and serves as a reminder to us all just how much goes into evaluations and how at risk they are because of things outside of those your eye can control and decipher.
Injuries and individual player’s abilities to adapt and improve over the long haul, (or not, and ultimately implode a career) is nearly impossible to predict.
Awesome writeup!
Nice piece, always insightful to see people go back and assess what they got wrong and why. That said, I feel like it’s easy to inadvertently produce contradictory conclusions by looking at individual players.
Look at Corey Ray and Aaron Judge: you say that Ray’s K% should’ve been a red flag, but then for Judge say that the athletic tools should’ve bumped the evaluation up even though he struck out 44% of the time in his September callup. Judge was 3 years older and a giant physical outlier— if you had to bet on one of those prospects to get their Ks down, wouldn’t it have been Ray?
Leaving aside the fact that Judge had nearly double Ray’s BB/K in A+…that’s precisely where scouting comes in.
Even then, it’s important to look at the profiles beyond just the statline:
Judge grew up in Calabama (his town’s population just now cracked 2000 people!), then went to Fresno State (whose conference doesn’t play football) because Power 5 teams only wanted him for football.
Ray grew up in Chicago, where he went to a powerhouse baseball HS, then was a 3 year starter at Louisville.
Yeah…the scouts were saying Ray was a better prospect.
Yes. We learned this in the list at the top of the article.
The rest of the piece is about lessons learned based on the misevaluations from
7 years ago.
Fresno State’s conference doesn’t play football? Fresno St literally has had the #1 overall nfl draft pick.
Their baseball conference doesn’t, haha – fucking Wikipedia!
yes to me it just shows that baseball is subtle and we should be careful what we think we can learn from case studies. In multiple cases our author lamented missing on a player because he ignored K% issues in the minors, but then later laments missing on others because he weighted the player’s K% issues too highly. You can always come up with reasons to fit one narrative or another (“Oh this player’s K% issues mattered because they were unathletic, or because their swing was funny”), but man, this is why we’re so bad at this. We’re dealing with a system with an extremely low signal to noise ratio where we don’t get feedback on the outcomes of our evaluations until long after the fact. At the same time we are wired to see patterns everywhere and have trouble admitting when in truth there’s simply a pretty low limit on how much we can learn given all the uncertainties involved.
It would be really interesting to know if we’re actually any better at hitting on prospects than we were in the past. I’d guess that would overwhelmingly be the sentiment, and there are many narratives you could tell to support it, but I wonder. If I had to guess we are probably slightly better, but not as much as current confidence would support.
I said this before but I think the story here is that you can get away with way more when you have big time raw power. There’s a big difference between “power-speed” types with hit tool problems and “massive, gargantuan raw power” types with hit tool problems. Speed doesn’t really help you fix contact problems—see Corey Ray, Lewis Brinson, and Yoan Moncada. But if you don’t have to work for your power you can just focus on getting the bat on the ball instead.
That doesn’t mean that speed is irrelevant since there are plenty of lumbering behemoths who scouts rightly said would never amount to anything and they didn’t. Like Bobby Bradley or Jhailyn Ortiz or Dermis Garcia. But athleticism only seems to matter up to a certain point when you are running a high K rate. Being a 45 runner matters a lot compared to being a 30, but being a 60 runner probably doesn’t matter at all compared to being a 45.
There’s more that goes into it obviously, but a 60 runner has a better chance of sticking at CF or SS, where an iffy bat can still play. A 45 runner is probably doomed to a corner spot. Lots of guys, even one’s with big raw power, can’t hit enough to play at the bottom end of the defensive spectrum.
Yes, definitely it matters defensively. But not at the plate.
I think there’s one more thing I forgot. We are really good about quantifying raw power now. I still don’t know that I trust evaluations of hit tools and defense. Even if hit tool and defense are as (or more) important they are things that some guys are deceptively bad at (like Keston Hiura) and others can be much better at if they work hard enough (like George Springer).
My gut says it’s impossible to judge until a player hits a level where they’re failing. Only then can we tell if the player has the ability to make adjustments &/or is willing to put in the work to make changes to go back to succeeding.
It’s gotta be tough to be a stud amateur/lower level of minor’s player..which is probably 7-8 years of success & then get to a level where the opposition can finally exploit the flaw in your game that you may not have even realized existed.
This is one of those things that I think gets slightly underrated by “statheads” but is also massively overrated elsewhere.
So much failure is baked into the cake when talking about baseball. The best hitters are going to have 0-fer nights where they look terrible. The best pitchers are going to get rung up for a bunch of runs some nights. There is a lot of selection in even getting to the pros in terms of handling failure.
Does that mean that are outliers? Sure, and it definitely matters in results. But I think there are so so many cases where that is overblown. Maybe the reason a guy couldn’t succeed at that level was that he was simply overmatched.
Judge never played more than 66 games at any minor league level before AAA so he moved fast enough that he never really had a chance to adept to the new pitching levels and still struck out at a lower % then Ray who spent far more time at each level below AAA.
Judge A 234 ABs, 59 Ks= 25.51%
Judge A+ 233 ABs, 72 Ks=30.9%
Judge AA 250 ABs, 70 Ks= 28%
Ray only had 3 games at A level and probably should have spent more time there.
Ray A+ 680 ABs, 210 Ks=30.8%
Ray AA 724ABs, 241 Ks= 33.29%
With 2 to 3 times as many at bats at A+ & AA I think it is fair to see the K rates as a bigger red flag
Fair points but even here there’s some hindsight bias at play; remember, this is looking back at scouting reports written before the 2017 season.
At that point, Ray was a 22yo coming off a 250PA, 21 K% season in A+ and Judge was a 25yo with 30 K% in 580 AAA PA and a 44 K% in his callup.
Given what we know now, sure you can construct reasons why it should be expected that Judge would cut the K% and become a superstar while Ray wouldn’t ever make it. But that’s not really honest! There were red flags for both, and one guy figured things out and one guy didn’t. Sometimes that’s the way it goes.
That is fair I guess my biggest takeaway is K% matter but more then that the context for the K% matters and it would be interesting to see the differences in whiff % and chase % to compare players in the lower minors.
IZSwSt wasn’t publicly available at the time…and that’s kinda important, haha
…which statline are you looking at?
Judge didn’t have 580 PA in all of 2016!
In 2016, 24 year old Judge struck out 24% of the time at AAA, with a .48 K/BB and a 147 wRC+.
21 year old Ray struck out 21% of the time at A+ with a .37 K/BB and a 101 wRC+.
Think it’s total AAA AB (not PA, which it probably should be). Judge had 228 AB in AAA in 2015 and 352 AB in AAA in 2016.
…oh yeah, that’s the problem. Judge struck out in 30% of his ABs in AAA, but only 25.6% of his PA.
Yeah my mistake, thanks for correcting
Corey Ray brings to mind Dylan Cozens, who had a monster 2016 AA season at the age of 22 (40 HRs, 21 SBs, .276/.350/.591), was only 4 months older than Ray (though because of his late birthday 2016 was considered Ray’s age 21 season), and also had an elevated K-rate (31.7% that year, 10.4 BB%). They were even diagnosed with the same problem… a long lefty swing that hurt their ability to make contact.
Contrary to Ray, scouts/analysts correctly realized that Cozens’s propensity to whiff was going to be a problem – he didn’t make a single top 100 list in 2017. And they were right, he had a blah 2018 and then faded away. Ray meanwhile had just been drafted #5 overall, and put up a league average but punchless half season at A+, but was a #20 overall prospect.
They were very different players, with very different statures – Ray was listed at 6’0″/196 and Cozens at 6’6″/235. But it goes to show you how random and how much preconceptions (often tied to draft position) affect prospect rankings.
Well, over his minor league career, Ray ran a 30% K rate, .235 AVG, and .306 OBP. Judge was 25%, .277, and .371. So I think there was plenty of reason to think Judge had a better shot of overcoming his strikeouts than Ray did, even at the time. (And that’s setting aside Judge’s significant power advantage; the bar for being a productive hitter is a lot lower when you have obvious 70+ power.)
If anything, I think the novelty of Judge’s size was one of the big reasons so many evaluators undervalued him. For a guy who strikes out a lot, he’s an awfully good hitter with an awfully good eye (he also had a 12.5% BB% in the minors, compared to Ray’s 8.8%). I don’t think scouts just failed to notice those things, but I do think they underrated those signs because of his size. Some level of uncertainty for his future was certainly warranted, but it seems like a lot of folks just didn’t quite believe that Judge could be that good of a hitter.
Judge is tall, yes, but he is also just a massively-framed human. Dudes with that physique just hadn’t succeeded in MLB at all — frankly, because a lot of athletes with that physique are pushed into football or basketball.
Honestly, if he were adopted into another family, who’s to say whether he has the ability to turn down a full ride from Notre Dame to bet on baseball.
Which is why folks missed – baseball’s only frame of reference for a guy Judge’s size is Richie Sexson…but Judge is much closer to Antonio Gates, Lane Johnson, or Al Horford.
Looks like an insane amount of work here! And I love your work. Thanks
Love this article. I hope you have time to do this every year going forward.
I’ll be reading this article for a while, but wanted to share one bit of food for thought for whoever is creating/editing tables at Fangraphs…
It would be great if the rankings above were more easily sortable. Efforts to sort by ranking (or any field with NR or other wildcards) lead to a character-based order that’s a little confusing to read. If there’s a simple solution, it would be worth it.
We agree – we tried a bunch of stuff but no obvious solution presented itself. Will def keep noodling on it for future iterations.
Ke’Bryan Hayes shoutout. Everybody take a drink!
More seriously, I love this retro. Fantastic stuff!
This was an amazing article and it is fascinating to see the hits and misses. It is funny looking back at Victor Robles projected with a 65 future hit tool and Juan Soto with a 55 and Matt Olson a 40.
I believe Zimmerman looked at correlation of prospect hit tool and eventual hitting (average maybe) for Rotographs a year or 2 ago. Anyone still have that link? Basically, prospect hit tool grades did not line up well.
I wonder if in the past there’s been some body-type bias when it comes to estimating the hit tool.
Bah, I included too many links and got moderated! There’s a Zimmerman post from 2017: https://fantasy.fangraphs.com/prospect-scouting-stats-hitter-hit-tool/
and a Podhorzer post from 2020: https://fantasy.fangraphs.com/prospect-scouting-stats-hitter-hit-tool/
Curious if there was a conscious decision to not include Minor League Baseball’s rankings (John Sickel’s old site). He had ratings in 2017.
I get that the reason why he left baseball writing is quite sad but still seems like he should have been included. For those that don’t know the story, you can read more here but please note that it’s a very sad story with a trigger warning at the very top of the article.
https://www.patreon.com/posts/why-i-left-40823333
I do hope John’s doing well regardless of what he’s up to now. He was one of the good ones.
Thank you for sharing this, very sad story indeed.
You’re welcome. I had read John for years though I lost track of him when he moved to The Athletic and went behind a paywall (not his fault obviously). One day I decided to Google him and came across that article. He doesn’t seem to be active online anymore but I do hope he’s achieved some sense of peace. He deserves it.
I was a big Minor League Ball guy (YankeesEaglesWhat).
Was thrilled when he came to the Athletic…and obviously devastated when I learned that he was quitting and why.
I remember when I found out that he had abruptly quit. I googled around, figuring that it was just a case of burnout or that he had a health problem or something. I can’t say I could have ever guessed the real reason. Not if you gave me a hundred tries.
I never saw that post but wondered what happened to John (assumed it was just the normal SB Nation BS).
Good guy, hope he is thriving.
Thanks for sharing that. Devastating post but it’s good to know that, as he said, he has been able to make a good life for himself.
Minor League Ball was an incredible resource. Not just John’s rankings, but the Gameday articles where the community posted statlines, scouting reports, and discussions daily during the MiLB season
This was the startup year for my dynasty baseball league that is still going today – I drafted Corey Ray, Delvin Perez, and Luiz Gohara… but also Cody Bellinger, Max Fried, and Brandon Woodruff. Win some lose some, thanks for the help Eric
More discussion of Soto/Robles specifically would have been nice; I get that he accelerated at quite a pace, but it would have been a useful comparison point.
Also props on Alcantara — it definitely seems like he should have been Top 100 (retrospecting) and you had him there when three of the four others didn’t.
I think Wade should be a 35+ on actual performance, but that’s a minor quibble.
Just goes to show you what a crapshoot these rankings are. Lookin at this list, there is more total WAR from outside the top 100 than there is from 17′ players ranked in the top 50
The pitchers are the biggest crapshoot. Even the best pitchers from the FG Top 100 here have had up and down careers. Castillo, meanwhile, only made it onto one of the Top 100 lists.
There are many interesting valid takeaways you could take away from this article.
I do not think ‘these rankings are crapshoot’ by comparing WAR total by 17 players from the top 50 (which includes #34 Clint Frazier’s -0.7 WAR but not 13.4 WAR from #9 J.P. Crawford) and 20+ successful players from the total pool of several hundreds of prospects outside top 100 is one of them.
Actually, No. I was comparing the top 50 in this list up above FG top 100, vs the the guys on this exact same list outside of FG top 100. Its roughly the same amount of players. The 50 or so outside the top 100 ON THIS LIST……Didn’t think i’d have to write that out. But the ones on this list outside FG top 100 have more WAR than the top 50 on this list.
This is fantastic, thank you! Looking at this type of info is very interesting. I wonder if there is a way to add some of this info to the Board for past seasons. Could be complicated but would be really interesting
Aaron Judge has to be the biggest outlier in recent memory between what he was projected to be on the eve of his graduation to the majors and what he ended up being, right?
Depends what you mean by recent memory, and whether you’re counting guys who underperformed their predictions as well. Delmon Young has negative career fWAR. Trout outperformed any reasonable projection by like 5-7 WAR a year for his first seven years in the league. Albert Pujols was the #42 prospect per BA in 2001, and you could argue he’s the best first baseman ever. Ugueth Urbina tried to set some guys on fire; I bet no one had that on their bingo card.
For Trout though, by the eve of his graduation he was projected to be amazing. I remember a lot of discussion about whether the #1 prospect should be Trout, Harper, or, um, Matt Moore.
Another big outlier on the positive side is Marcus Semien, though I guess he was what people expected for a few years. Maybe more so José Ramirez, who I remember being projected as a glove-only shortstop when he graduated.
I take it back—Jose Ramirez is a far better example than Trout. I think most people had him as just a utility guy.
And it’s hard to blame them! Guy gets his value in really weird (beautifully fun to watch) ways. It’s really the outliers that make me love baseball so much.
I saw a write up recently and it was like punchless back up to your first backup infielder or something.
Yeah, I think that was back in the Mike Newman days?
I first heard about Ramirez in 2015, after his prospect days, when he got a bit of writeup in fantasy circles as a potential speed option with a bit of pop.
To add to that, another guy for this list is Jose Altuve. He had a great minor league career, but was also unranked due of his size.
Strider, who wasn’t even ranked, is another for that list.
Maybe I don’t fully understand prospect ranks, but to give Devers an actual grade of 60 seems low? If 60= Plus, and 70= Plus Plus, how is Devers not a 70? If we leave pitchers out of the equation at the very worst he is a top 10-25 player alive. That seems to me closer to a 70 (or higher) than a 60.
Roughly:
50 = 2 WAR baseline
55 = 3 WAR baseline
60 = 4 WAR baseline
65 = 5 WAR baseline
70 = 6 WAR baseline
75 = 7 WAR baseline
80 = 8 WAR baseline
Trout = Trout
Devers is obviously awesome…but he’s a 4 WAR guy who puts up 5 in a good year (2021) and 3 in a down year (2023).
50 is 2? I guess that makes better sense. Still feels weird to me that a top 20 player is 60 on a 20-80 baseline.
MLB average player always has been a 1.3 War Player. Not a 2.
learn something new everyday
But 50 means an average starter, which has always been 2, unless I’m mistaken.
Which I might be! I know FG and B-Ref aligned on replacement level several years ago.
Keep in mind that these are standard deviations above / below the mean, rather than just top quintile player or whatever.
Fantastic stuff! Very excited for prospect week!
Trade those prospects for proven talent clubs.
Probably the biggest lesson here, I’d say.
Dombo is good at GMing.
This FG list, specifically Atlanta’s representation, is the one I often cite when fans point to pitching prospects as unrealistic expectations. As a Bucs fan, I hear others daydreaming about a future rotation of Skenes, Chandler, Solometo, etc. Look at this Braves list: Allard, Anderson, Fried, Gohara, Sonoma, Newcomb, and Wentz were all 50’s or higher. That’s seven arms…of which only Fried has been effective. Anderson and Soroka were solid for a season or so until injuries sidelined them.
This list does little to change my recent epiphany that there is no such thing as a pitching prospect
TINSTAAPP
I banged the drum long and hard for Rafael Devers, who stood out as better than Moncada and Benintendi when I saw each of them play, but I’ve had more than my share of misses as well, so I enjoy pieces like this that look back on past mistakes and what can be learned from them.
Gosh what a memorable prospect pool. I was in a rebuild back in these days and threw myself at Alex Reyes, Victor Robles, and Yadier Alvarez thinking I had struck prospect gold….
And I didn’t expect to get this much closure on Yadier Alvarez today lol. I feel validated
Don’t worry, it took me a couple seasons to realize that Y. Alvarez hadn’t been traded by the Dodgers to the Astros, and that his arrival as one of the best young hitters in baseball hadn’t been foretold years prior.
This is a great analysis. I think teams should do retrospective analysis like this more often. Not for the purpose of guilting those who made wrong predictions, but to learn from possible mistakes and misjudgments made at the time of assessment.
I was bamboozled by the Corey Ray hype on this site.
Great, objective post-mortem Eric!! thank you!
It’s baffling that the best results from this list (Adames, Crawford, Woodruff. Eloy, Vladito) are further away from the majors.
We are meant to believe that prospect rankings improve with proximity to the majors but this list says otherwise…
Maybe we overrate the guys that are about to debut?
These days I think we do a bit, probably because salaries have gotten so high that having young players who can passably soak up IPs or ABs in the majors for a few hundred grand is really valuable, even if they aren’t great. In another thread a few weeks ago I complained about 24/25 year old 50s, dudes who are definitely going to make it to the majors and get higher grades because of that, but we all know aren’t going to be good.
Is it me or did ZIPS 2017 destroy all of these lists?
Probably. KATOH, back when it was a thing, definitely outperformed these rankings. But then smart people like Eric and Kiley figured out the things that KATOH was using to predict success and integrated it into their lists. (Also, the creator KATOH got hired by the Twins).
Katoh was good, but it was no fringe five.
Mookie Betts!
This is great, I’ve always wanted to see a retrospective look at how prospect grades play out (something NFL prospect gurus are usually too chicken s–t to do, because they suck at grading prospects).
I’d ask that this get taken one step farther – I expect you could fairly easily tie a FV to an “expected first X year WAR” value. In fact, it’s right here. Then you could get the rate at which your FVs meet or exceed the WAR you would expect from them given their initial FV. This might even help identify statistical clusters of players who regularly under or over perform their pre-draft expectations (ex: an easy one you already noted would be “guys whose arms fell off in AAA”). It obviously wouldn’t be this simple because prospects mature at different rates and such, but it’d be interesting to get a ‘hit rate’, and maybe there’s even a relationship between FV and hit rate (I would expect so!).
Or it may all just turn out to be too noisy. In which case, I don’t know, crochet a narwhal or something
Alex Reyes age is off. (By 10 years ?)
Loved this piece. I hope this becomes an annual article.
Also love your optimism seen by so many overgrades. It’s very human of you.
What a great piece. This is why Eric Longenhagen is a treasure. Thoughtful, incisive, honest.
Prospect analysis is inherently an incredibly inexact science. The number of variables in play are staggering. Amidst all the challenges and uncertainty, it’s cool to have Eric walk us through how he’s continuing to refine and improve his approach.
When you see how much work and care Eric puts into his analysis, it’s all the more hilarious/enraging to read the meathead “fans” who casually dismiss his analysis just because it doesn’t match their homer fandom or gut impressions.
Boy I remember all that Frances Martes and David Paulino love killing me in a dynasty Strat league. Simpler times. lol
Amazing and thoughtful post, I hope it becomes a yearly tradition during prospect week.
One question I’ve had for awhile, but have never thought to ask it until now. Has Eric ever addressed why his grades are usually lower than most other outlets I’ve seen? For instance, compare his rankings to the pipeline rankings and you’ll find that Eric’s 50 FV basically = mlb pipeline 55 FV. Is Eric just more pessimistic on prospects as a whole, or is this just a ‘translation error’ for lack of better word?
Based on the Grade Translations post from a couple years ago, his standards for pitchers are pretty high – it categorizes a “#2 starter” as 200 IP with a sub-3 ERA/FIP.
I do think it’s more about pessimism/realism than anything else, though – of the 63 graduates/washouts listed, only 23 of them have cracked 10 WAR.
Pipeline in particular has some grade inflation–you can see how MLB would want its official site to come down on the side of making fans happier.
A few reasons. The obvious one is that it’s because most prospects bust, and it’s harder to ignore here than in other places. But Kiley uses the same system and is a bit more positive on him.
Another reason is that he’s adjusted to the attrition rate of pitchers (which kind of double-counts with the surplus value calculations for pitchers being lower than for hitters anyway, so I’m not sure it makes sense).
And finally, Eric is just a really skeptical guy.
Great write-up; thanks! Lots of lessons learned noted throughout the article, so I’m curious what you think your (and the industry’s) biggest blind spots are present day?
Reds fan here….what happened with Senzel and Stephenson? Is Senzel considered a bust even though injuries took him out? He seemed to have a very good hit tool back in 2017-2018. Stephenson was supposed to be >= Homer Baily
I’d love seeing a blurb on each player. There are a number of great players that were omitted because they haven’t reached the end of their controllable years but there is a lot to learn from them as well. The same for those that haven’t done much even though they haven’t reached the end of team control. But as you noted for some players that took time to really break out that will sell some players short.
I’d also love to see what there profiles said at the time vra what they say now without having to look it up.
In terms of pitchers it would be great to break them down into profile types. Anderson Espinoza and Reynaldo Lopez for instance both had premium velocity we are talking 100mph. So power pitchers with command issues. What profile for pitchers is the most risky and what has the best results?
Both Espinoza and Groome were recovering from TJ and then were effectively injured for a huge portion of their time in the minors. Groome in particular barely pitched. It will be interesting to see how Espinoza does in Japan.
Also I need to note as a Red Sox fan that a lot of their trades look great in hindsight from a straight value standpoint of value.
Judge had an incredibly risky profile for a hitter. Many with a similar profile do not succeed because MLB pitchers are able to exploit players who struck out as much as he did.. There were some issues that were held against him, that he was too tall and their were questions considering his size what his future held in the outfield. Those obviously turned out to be unfounded. Also people over react to the results of a cup of coffee. I’m not sure how informative the stats from those at bats are. There is a ton of value in giving a player a look at MLB pitching and then go into the off-season with an idea for what they need to work on.
Cody Bellinger is also interesting, because he came up as a 1b, if he was seen as a possible gold glove CF what would his rank have been then? I’m a Cody Bellinger skeptic this off-season due to the shoulder injury and it’s result on his bat but if it wasn’t for that what would his grade have been then?
Dombrowski’s a really good GM!
This is such a good article. Prospect retrospectives are so good at putting current rankings/writeups into perspective.
Sorting on the rank is a little broken. It starts with 1 at top but when re-sorting it’ll put NR at top.
2017 was when I first started reading this site and I got properly familiar with a lot of these names from my OOTP saves at the time. So this was a great blast from the past in more ways than one. Good times all around for me personally back then.
Francis Martes’ link actually links to Francis Marte ftr