Giants Double Down On Risk, Sign Johnny Cueto
Last year, one of the worst second-half pitchers in baseball was Jeff Samardzija. There wasn’t really a drop-off in his stuff, though, so the Giants saw enough to sign him to a big free-agent contract. Another pitcher who struggled in the second half, a bit more famously, was Johnny Cueto, but again, the Giants saw enough to now sign him to a big free-agent contract, too:
Johnny Cueto’s deal with #SFGiants is for six years and $130M with an opt out after 2 years.
— Jerry Crasnick (@jcrasnick) December 14, 2015
In Nashville, I was talking to someone in a front office, and we discussed whether Cueto would end up with more than the Diamondbacks were said to have offered him. The word is that Cueto turned down six years and something around $120 million from Arizona. The Giants are giving him a little more, and an opt-out, so Cueto’s clearly doing fine. It’s a bigger deal, in a more pitcher-friendly environment. As risky as Cueto might seem, Jordan Zimmermann might have no fewer red flags, and he got five years and $110 million. Cueto deserves the extra season.
Cueto is obviously a tough nut to crack. People don’t love his durability, but he’s cleared 450 innings the last two seasons. He comes off as a higher-maintenance sort, but his results have mostly been outstanding, and he recently worked that World Series complete game. You don’t want to believe too much in the playoff-redemption narrative — Cueto had 10 walks, 19 strikeouts, and a 5.40 ERA. But the Giants aren’t signing Cueto because of his time in Kansas City. They’re signing him because of what he did with Cincinnati, and San Francisco should provide a favorable environment. What teams care about is run prevention, and Cueto has prevented runs better than the majority of starting pitchers for the last several years.
We’ll see if he continues to beat his peripherals. Over the last six years, between the ages of 24 – 29, Cueto’s ERA- has been better than his FIP- by 15 points. Here are the biggest such differences over the last 50 years, within that age window:
- Jim Palmer, 18 points
- Johnny Cueto, 15
- Dave Stieb, 15
- Catfish Hunter, 14
- Mike Torrez, 14
- Barry Zito, 14
From age-30 on, Palmer had a difference of 15 points. Stieb, 8 points. Hunter, 4 points. Torrez, -3 points. Zito, -3 points. So that’s not super encouraging, nor is the simple presence of Zito, who has some Cueto parallels. It’s a name that sends shivers.
But Johnny Cueto isn’t Barry Zito. Johnny Cueto isn’t anyone but Johnny Cueto, and last year his stuff didn’t fall apart, and he was awesome in the National League. Now he returns to the National League, with a good team and a good coaching staff in a friendly environment. The Giants recognize and accept the risk in the pitchers they’ve signed. Higher risk doesn’t mean a higher chance of this being a mistake, necessarily. It’s just about big upside and big downside. Presented the option of going big or going home, the Giants have leaped at the chance for the former.
Jeff made Lookout Landing a thing, but he does not still write there about the Mariners. He does write here, sometimes about the Mariners, but usually not.
He was a dud here in KC. Couldn’t hack it vs the AL Lineups. Also-rans like Boston and Baltimore were pulverizing him.
I wish the opt-out came after year three, so they had him for two even-numbered years. I’m not a Giants fan, but at this point I’m a fan of that streak.
Cueto’s instagram is worth at least one win per year. I like this deal for Giants.
The Giants really liked the Giants and are taking the risk on them.
What the heck are the Dodgers doing? Two of our rivals just got stronger and we are significantly weaker. They’d better get their butts in gear.
BTW, this goes out to all Giants fans. You can no longer play the “team of overachievers” card. You are now on track AGAIN to have one of the largest payrolls in baseball. If you win next year it will be because you paid for it.
The Giants have three rings in 6 years lol…you sound like a salty dodger fan since you have a horrible fornthouse that spends money like its water and has nothing to show for it…”because you paid for it”…every team signs big free agents to win a world series. calm down and get back to your 200+ million dollar team that cant even make it to the World Series
+1 for “fornthouse
“You can no longer play the ‘team of overachievers’ card. You are now on track AGAIN to have one of the largest payrolls in baseball.”
this, this, a thousand times this.
If by “paid for it” you’re implication is that they would have “bought a championship”, you would be wrong. Buying a championship is making trades and taking on salary and spending $$$ in FA on guys with name value, with no real plan.
The Giants had one glaring weakness last year, and that was the rotation. They were one man short most of the year, and lost one starter to retirement, one to the end of a contract, and another was non-tendered. They’ve gone out and signed a pair of arms (for a combined total roughly equivalent to Price & Grienke each received) to fill their need. That is not buying a championship. If the Mets, with their great rotation, went out and signed Grienke AND price, that would be closer to buying a championship.
“Buying a championship” is whatever critics and those who dislike a team and/or its front office want it to mean. If one wants it to mean that they signed free agents, then that’s what it means. If one wants it to mean that they traded for some hired gun at the trade deadline, then that’s what it means.
Basically, it’s a phrase used by those who dislike a franchise as a way of devaluing that team’s success. It’s subjective B.S. — an ad hominem people throw around to demean another team as so many do in your average political comment thread.
This is the same site that attacks organizations like the Giants and Royals for the anti Saber metric acquisitions. Both these teams have won the two most recent world series. If FanGraphs says this is a bad acquisition for the Giants, well it’s actually a great acquisition.
Of course, that wasn’t actually said in this article.
Be kind. He can’t read.
“Now he returns to the National League, with a good team and a good coaching staff in a friendly environment.”
That sounds like Jeff is saying several positive things about the Giants.
You’ve made it clear that you feel FanGraphs has no integrity, and you’re failing miserably at your attempt to make persuasive arguments. So maybe it’s time for you to move on?
what does the 2 year opt out say about the negotiations? Why would the giants waant to give him one?
It says the Giants were happy to sign him to a 2 year/$46M deal, and let him hit FA (and shed his contract) for what will go down as the biggest FA year in the history of baseball (how long it will stand is another matter). They can also trade him at the deadline in 2017 and get a better haul than a compensation pick.
Pete rose betting on baseball is like Michael Jackson diddling kids, everyone will forget about it when he’s dead.
Rose does not need to be reinstated, he just needs to be in The Hall of Fame where he earned a spot with his great play.
#FreePeteRose
They let guys who use drugs, rape women, lie, cheat and steal in to the hall of fame, but NOT Pete Rose? What a bunch of A holes that run baseball. Glad I’m NO longer a fan of it.
Not in the HOF: all-time home run leader, one of the great all-time pitchers with 7 Cy Young awards & all-time hits leader. This is a joke!
An even year means congratulations to Cueto on two rings in two years!
60 year Dodger fan. Front office inactivity, in light of other moves in division, questionable.
They won the division by 8 games last year. Greinke going to the D’Bags means less than if he had gone to the Giants. 8 games + a full season of Seager and possibly Urias. I don’t think Shark/Cueto makes up for that.
Perhaps not but a full season of Cueto/Shark/Pence/Panik/Pagan will.
Antonio Wow, the BLUE Cool Aide….. Tipping the bottle a bit much this off season? Wow, and you think the 8 games you won by are significant, when in fact it was a close call you experienced as the Giants were in it to the end with virtually zero pitching.
Giants had the #1 BA in the entire NL (4th in all of MLB) but horrible pitching (read run prevention). You believe you are superior, but were simply lucky, and Giants were even missing 2 bats to injury, and two (2) pitchers, and yet kept it a race.
Dodger had the #21 BA….(read below-average, bottom 1/3, 20 teams were better, and only 9 were worse) The Dodgers frankly are horrible. The only reason for the Division Title is Kershaw and Greinke and now you are left with JUST Kershaw. Do you feel Iwakuma will make up the difference of Greinke? Hillarious fallacy. Remember Giants actually had to FACE Greinke, and will continue to have to face him, BUT for the first time the Dodgers will have to try to contend WITHOUT him while actually having to try to hit AGAINST him.
Can you say EPIC failure will ensue? I can.
Grenike-less Dodgers are at least a -8 games this year, but more likely -10.
Turmoil ensues in Smogville among the Avoiders, and after yet another EPIC fail in 2016, Kershaw will happily exercise his Opt-out in 2017 for the pay-day he richly deserves and will play with an ACTUAL winner.
I can’t wait till 2017 for that hilarious day. Side note: 2016 will be fun to watch as well.
does AV realize the Dodgers won the division by 8 games with a rotation that was in shambles all season besides Greinke and Kershaw, without Puig for half a season, with Pederson struggling in the 2nd half, with Grandal playing with one shoulder for the 2nd half last season?
In 2016, they get a healthy Puig, a healthy Grandal, and Corey Seager for a full season.
Comparing wRC+ in 2015 – Giants – 107, Dodger – 106. wOBA – SFG – .318, LAD – .322.
The Dodgers lineup will be fine. The rotation has plenty of depth with Urias, De Leon and Cotton in AAA. Iwakuma is no slouch and came much cheaper than Cueto and Samardzija.
AV, I’m glad you specified that the Giants were missing “two (2)” pitchers. Also appreciate the explanation of what it means to have the #21st batting average in the majors, as I was pretty confused as to what the implications of that were.
Please, take your “analysis” back to the bleacher report and spare the rest of us.
Well they may be looking at it this way – (2016 projections)
LAD – 48.4 WAR
SFG – 39.5 WAR
ARI – 31.1 WAR
Its not really close at all by using steamer, which we know does better than our homer-driven opinions do.
Who’s your all-time favorite Dodger?
Oops, that question was addressed at Brian Odell.
Matt Carpenter.