POLL: Pitchers and the MVP
You knew what this was as soon as you saw it. The conversation’s popping back up again, and lots of people are weighing in, but I don’t think I’ve ever actually seen a reader poll on the topic. So here is a reader poll on the topic, for our collective edification.
Jeff made Lookout Landing a thing, but he does not still write there about the Mariners. He does write here, sometimes about the Mariners, but usually not.
Value is value is value.
Right, but then they need a Ted Williams award for hitters.
Absolutely. I wish we could have a value award, along with best pitcher/best position player awards. If we had a Cy Young for position players instead of pitchers, I would not be surprised if we saw pitchers winning MVP and only triple crown-winning position players and similar getting consideration.
Or, you know, attach some significance to the award that already exists.
Most Excellent Point.
-WORD-
We do. It’s called the Hank Aaron Award.
Technically that’s the best hitter. We need something that recognizes a player’s offensive and defensive ability.
Someone wake Cy Young the fuck up and let him know that he would have won a ton of Felix Hernandez Awards.
The joke so nice we used it twice!
I think a pitcher needs to have an historic, not just excellent year to win it. Verlander a few years back was undeserving IMO, got to much credit for “Wins”. As far as changing the name of the awards, wait a few years and we can keep MVP but also have a Kershaw and a Trout award. ya heard meh!
My problem in using WAR, and especially for pitchers, as an MVP selection tool is that it is telling us what should have happened, while I think the MVP award should honor what did happen.
RA9 war? And that doesn’t address why pitchers should be disadvantaged as compared to hitters; you can disagree with how value is calculated and still think pitchers should/shouldn’t be MVP candidates.
No version of WAR (including hitters) is what should have happened. WAR is what did happen.
They mean context. Two home runs by the same player in the same park are valued the same by WAR but not necessarily by WPA. Based on the way people talk about the MVP, there’s an argument to be made for using WPA as your barometer rather than WAR.
Of course pitchers should be, though I also think that they should be looked at through metrics that include any luck they might have had (We don’t say a hitter doesn’t deserve MVP for having an impossibly high BABIP, it should be the same with pitchers and a very low BABIP for example).
I have the same feeling towards pitchers winning the MVP as I do Goalies winning the MVP in hockey. That position (Pitcher/Goalie) is inherently more valuable then all the other positions. So to compare them head to head for awards is a bit unfair because IMHO, the goalie/pitcher should always win just based on the position they play. I would give up any position player over a number 1 pitcher/goalie.
And I was a pitcher in my younger days so it pains me to say that. 😉
But a goalie plays all game every game. A pitcher might give you ~7 innings per 5 games over the course of a season while a position player can play every game in a season.
With a five man rotation, the value ends up being the same. The most valuable player in the league by WAR is probably a position player slightly more often than a pitcher.
Position players put up that WAR over the course of 150ish games though. Pitchers put up their WAR in 30ish.
On a per inning played basis, pitchers are far, far more valuable.
Or maybe I have been awake for way to long haha.
Sure, but why would the MVP be given out on a per inning played basis?
Ideally I’d like MVP to be the best overall player and a best position player award equal in importance to the Cy Young award to be created. With the current circumstances I prefer MVP to always go to a position player. And no the Hank Aaron award does not count. No one cares about it and it is best hitter rather than best position player.
My boy Miguel Cabrera should win again. He’s on pace for 25+ HR’s, 115+ RBI, 100+ runs and hitting over .300 in a weak lineup with no protection.
I’ll name ten position players who are more deserving of AL MVP this year than Miguel Cabrera: Mike Trout, Alex Gordon, Michael Brantley, Robinson Cano, Ben Zobrist, Josh Donaldson, Kyle Seager, Jose Bautista, Jose Abreu & Adam Jones.
IMAO Zobrist? LOL.
Miggy has more hits, runs, doubles, sacrifice flys, hit by pitch, intentional walks, hr’s, rbi’s, higher average and higher slugging. Miggy does all that in a bad lineup and like I said with no protection.
Well Miggy really needs to invest in some Trojan, Durex, Lifestyles or Crowns.
I realize you are just trolling, but with defense factored in of course Zobrist has been much better than Cabrera.
A FanGraphs reader citing HR, RBI, Runs, AVG, and the line-up a guy hits in in a discussion over MVP….. Oh the irony
Guys, I am pretty sure he’s been sarcastic.
Especially considering Miggy is being protected this year by a guy with better numbers in basically every advanced statistical category.
It’s cool to have a poll, but the option “Yes, but only if they blow hitters away” seems like a bit of a cop-out. It should be a simple “Yes” or “No”.
Unintended double-entendre. I think he meant if the pitching candidate far excels the rest of the field, but it comes out sounding like he needs to throw 99 with a great off-speed pitch.
Guys, we need to start addressing off the field value. Derek Jeter not only provides a potent bat and brilliant defense, but was also one of the greatest ladies’ men of this generation, getting anyone and everyone he desired. His moves on and off the field make him this year’s Most Valuable Playa, and it’s not even close.
Something something gift baskets, something something Jeets?
I really think a better option would be “true if there is no overwhelming hitting candidates”
I’ll go with the obvious argument. The award is called the “Most Valuable Player”, not “Most Valuable Position Player”.
Pay attention to the Hank Aaron Award or add the Willie Mays award, whatever; but as long as you call THIS award the MVP every player should be considered equally eligible based on how well he plays and how valuable that play is.
I liked what mike petriello was saying about how a pitcher not playing everyday is an invalid point. This is due to hitters equating most of their value through their plate appearances of which they would have around 550-600 per year which is similar to the amount of hitters a starter faces over the season. However the amount of innings on defence is a point of which value is hard to compare. Thus I believe pitchers should be entitled to winning the MVP especially Hernandez and Kershaw this year, however it’s highly unlikely that they would vote against Trout’s season and the fact that Kershaw was injured for a while.
Until they get a separate award for hitters, I think MVP should be for position players only and Cy Young for pitchers only.
You can’t just exclude Adam Dunn from Cy Young consideration like that.