Intrigue on the High Cease: Padres Add Chicago Ace in Blockbuster

You truly cannot make this stuff up. Back in December, the Padres were involved in the biggest trade of the offseason, sending Juan Soto to the Yankees in return for a heaping helping of pitching prospects. It’s the kind of trade you make when you’ve missed out on your goal, a classic attempt to turn a bad situation into an OK one. When you trade one of the best handful of players in baseball for some dudes most people outside of New York have never heard of, it’s fairly easy to guess your team’s trajectory.
But, uh, don’t tell A.J. Preller that. On Wednesday, the Padres made their second blockbuster of the winter, this one headed in the opposite direction: They acquired Dylan Cease from the Chicago White Sox in exchange for Drew Thorpe, Jairo Iriarte, Samuel Zavala, and Steven Wilson, as Mark Feinsand first reported.
This is wild stuff. It’s so hard to get a player like Soto on your team; if you have him, and you’re trying to make the playoffs, there’s almost never a good reason to move him. If you do move him, you’re probably rebuilding, though, not turning around and using one of those same prospects you got in the first deal to add a new star. The Padres, man.
Let’s give San Diego the benefit of the doubt on this one, though, and try to walk through what the team is thinking here. It’s no secret that its pitching staff is in tatters. Three of its top five starters from last season – the top three by WAR, in fact – left in free agency, leaving only Yu Darvish and Joe Musgrove as holdovers. The Padres added Michael King, Randy Vásquez, Jhony Brito, and Thorpe in the Soto trade, and more or less planned on making them the back half of the rotation. Before the Cease trade, we were projecting that foursome to deliver 385 innings worth of starting pitching in addition to helping out the bullpen.
Astute baseball observers will note that most of those pitchers failed to make an impression on a Yankees team that barely broke .500. King looks like the real deal, but the rest of them might be more projects than quick fixes. That wasn’t exactly promising, considering San Diego went 82–80 last year and then got worse at the plate – no Soto – and on the mound.
Enter Cease, who brings significantly improves the rotation. Whether he’s an ace depends heavily on your definition of ace, but he’s inarguably a good starting pitcher. Over the past three years, he’s averaged 32 starts, 175 innings, and 4 WAR. That’s a top-10 pitching line, and his peripherals mostly match the headline numbers, so it’s not like he’s been doing it with smoke and mirrors.
That’s not to say that Cease always looks like an ace. He’s sort of a right-handed Blake Snell, all strikeouts and walks thanks to a killer slider and the deep counts that come with such a pitch. He complements that slider with a fast but not overpowering four-seamer; the pitch has played down throughout his career even as he’s done considerable work to change its shape, adding nearly three inches of vertical movement since his major league debut.
Every at-bat against Cease comes down to hitters trying their hardest to hit that fastball, because if they swing at his slider, they’ll likely go home unfulfilled. Barely half of the swings against his slider even make contact. Batters have had better luck against his curveball, which he simply can’t manipulate like the slider; it’s only there because he shouldn’t exactly throw only fastballs and sliders, and he rarely uses his changeup. The point is that Cease is good, and in a Snellian way, but not quite as good.
That’s not exactly faint praise. Snell just won the Cy Young, after all, and he’s been one of the best in the game for a while now, even if his games can be a chore to watch at times because of all the deep counts. By trading for Cease, the Padres have gotten their rotation back, roughly, to where it was last year, with a solid top five but not a ton of depth behind it.
One of the reasons there’s no depth is that they just sent a lot of it to the White Sox. Top-100 prospects Thorpe and Iriarte headline the return, and I’m going to borrow liberally from Eric Longenhagen and Tess Taruskin’s recent Top 100 post in describing them. Thorpe has bounced around the league this offseason specifically because he’s so desirable. He made his pro debut in 2023 and flat out wrecked opposing lineups with an untouchable changeup. He’s a command over stuff guy, changeup notwithstanding, with excellent control of the zone and an extensive arsenal of decent-but-not-great pitches. Eric and Tess compared him to Jeremy Hellickson and Marco Estrada, two guys who were above average pitchers at their peak despite underwhelming velocity and breaking balls. He has a solid floor because of that one elite pitch and good command; hitting his ceiling will probably involve finding another out pitch at some point.
Iriarte is more of a modern pitching prospect. He touches 100 with his fastball and throws a big sweeping slider that complements the fastball nicely. He’s a tall drink of water, listed at 6’2” and 160 pounds, and he boasts premium arm speed in a delivery that made Eric and Tess describe him as “like watching Slender Man throw 97.” He’s almost a reverse Thorpe. It’s easy to imagine how this might not work out, because he doesn’t have enough command at the moment; we’re just projecting improvement there based on his clear physical talent. If he can harness his two devastating pitches, though, watch out. In a brief cameo at Double-A last year, he threw 29.1 innings and struck out 51 batters. His stuff is no joke.
Zavala is a lot further off than the other two prospects in this deal. He turned 19 last July, and spent most of the season in the Cal League before a brief, rough stretch with High-A Fort Wayne. His surface numbers are impressive and he gets on base a ton, but per Eric, his contact rate and swing are reasons to worry. His swing path makes him susceptible to high fastballs, and he had some pretty anemic contact data in the first half of the year, though he rebounded a bit there as the season went on. Eric considers him a high-risk prospect, with plenty of talent but also plenty of questions yet to be answered about his swing.
(All three prospects will soon be added to the White Sox prospect report.)
That leaves Wilson, definitely the odd man out in the deal. The other three are guys the White Sox can hope will be part of their next contending team. Wilson has spent two straight years as a middle reliever in San Diego, which makes him rather less interesting. But I can see what the White Sox are doing here in getting Wilson as a throw-in. He has two very good pitches, a slider and a mid-90s fastball with a ton of riding action. He worked multiple innings at many of his relief stops in the minors, but the combination of starting late, missing reps due to the pandemic-canceled minor league season, and an IL stint in 2021 meant he never progressed past stretching out into starting.
If I were the Sox, I’d try to correct that right away, whether in the minors or the big leagues. It might not work out, but he really does have solid stuff; it’s just a matter of whether it will still play as a starter. Sure, fine, it’s also a matter of whether he has the stamina to handle starter workloads and whether he can develop a third pitch. And also, yes, he wasn’t even that great as a reliever, but we’re wish casting here, which is an appropriate thing to do for a team bottoming out as hard as Chicago seems to be.
So, did anyone “win” this trade? Did both teams? Did neither? I’m really struggling to wrap my head around the Padres side of things. They essentially swapped a year of Soto and two of Trent Grisham for two years each with King and Cease; the rest of the players that changed hands mostly offset, though Iriarte is the best of the bunch, so you can think of it as a tiebreaker in that direction. Maybe backup catcher Kyle Higashioka is the counterpoint to that tiebreaker, but in any case, the key parts moving are the major leaguers.
From a projection standpoint, those two sides stack up roughly equally, depending on what playing time you want to allocate to Grisham. I think it works out better than that for the Padres, because they badly needed starting pitching, but not that much better. Their outfield situation is truly dire; Jurickson Profar looked cooked last year en route to a -2 WAR season, and he’s their starting left fielder. Their starting center fielder is shortstop prospect Jackson Merrill, who first played the outfield in late 2023 and has 211 plate appearances above A-ball. José Azocar is prominently involved in the outfield plan. It’s ugly out there, is my point; San Diego has a ton of redundant depth in the infield, and yet it traded outfielders away.
Some of that is undoubtedly because the Padres are reducing salary, and Soto by far has the highest salary of any of the players involved in this web of trades. This trade also sets them up for a slightly longer window of contention; instead of a huge decline in team quality after 2024 when Soto would have become a free agent, along with shortstop Ha-Seong Kim, they have two seasons before they lose their two new pitchers.
I think this move makes the Padres better than they were at the beginning of the week, because I don’t think it made sense for them to pull off a soft rebuild when so many of their core players are in their prime and signed to expensive contracts, but they look like a worse team now than they were last season. Their roster doesn’t scream wait ‘til next year, but the Padres ended up treading water on the trade front, and they lost a ton of good players in free agency.
Maybe that’s just what they had to do to make payroll. We have them comfortably under the first CBT threshold with a projected $223 million luxury tax payroll this year, down from $280 million. After exceeding the tax threshold by a minuscule amount in 2022 and then blowing past it last year, they were due for some pretty steep penalties if they didn’t find some way to reduce their salary outlay. Perhaps some of this maneuvering is paying for Preller’s past misdeeds – that 2022 overage meant dollars over the threshold this year would’ve been taxed at a whopping 50%, as opposed to 30% if the team had come in under it that year — but that’s par for the course with him. He did a good job making the most of a sticky situation, but the Padres still probably won’t make the playoffs, considering they play in a tough division and our projections see them as a bottom-10 offense.
Again, though, that’s not this deal’s fault. If the Padres really couldn’t add salary, then Cease was the best option available to them, and they got him for a bunch of players who weren’t integral to their plans. I’m a big Thorpe fan in the limited video I’ve seen of him, and Iriarte and Zavala are both certainly interesting, but they’re risky profiles, and they certainly felt out of place on a team still trying to maximize its current window of contention, before Manny Machado and Xander Bogaerts lose steam. From that standpoint, trading the prospects makes sense.
The White Sox spent all winter loudly proclaiming that they’d only trade Cease for a haul, and in the end they accomplished that goal without really changing the trajectory of their franchise. The Reds shot down the biggest rumored offer for Cease, which would have included Rhett Lowder, Edwin Arroyo, and Connor Phillips, and this package from the Padres feels similar to me, perhaps even a bit better because the White Sox are getting two 50 FV guys in Iriarte and Thorpe instead of just one, Lowder. Eric and Tess are down on Zavala, but he’s certainly an interesting piece. And Wilson? He’s just a nice little add-on.
The thing is, just because this return is comparable to that one doesn’t mean it’s good. Every trade of a marquee player this year has made one thing clear: The return on stars just isn’t that high. Soto, Cease, and Corbin Burnes all got traded for prospect packages that were good but not great. No generational future talents changed hands in exchange for these All-Stars.
It’s possible that none of the guys the White Sox acquired will ever become average regulars for them. If it weren’t for Thorpe’s high floor, I’d call it quite likely, in fact. That isn’t where you want to be when trading someone this good. Cease himself came over to the White Sox, along with Eloy Jiménez, from the Cubs for Jose Quintana, who admittedly had 3 1/2 years of team control remaining instead of two. But trades like that don’t really happen anymore; teams don’t trade top-five prospects like Jiménez, period.
None of this means that the White Sox should have kept Cease. They’re going to be putrid this year, and they still would have been putrid even if they didn’t deal him. Building for the future is their best move at this point, and there probably wasn’t a bigger return coming down the pipeline. This is what they have. It’s just a bummer for White Sox fans that all they’re getting back for a great pitcher in his prime are some decent prospects and the ongoing discussion of whether the team will leave Chicago for a new stadium. It’s going to be a rough year on the South Side.
Ben is a writer at FanGraphs. He can be found on Bluesky @benclemens.
With the Padre’s need for a CF and the Sox rebuilding, when do they begin talks about a Louis Robert Jr. trade?
More importantly, what would that trade look like?
Would need 3x, maybe approaching 4x the value of this package. Robert is a 4 to 6 WAR hitter at a premium position (with excellent defense there) under team control for the next 4 years at an AAV of $16.88M. Would be like the entirety of the top of the SDP farm system.
There’s also no need to trade him. They might be competitive again before his team control runs out. That said, 3x to 4x this package seems a tad overwrought.
I am increasingly thinking that the White Sox may not be competitive for a while. This does not look like a quick turnaround.
That’s true though you might as well keep around a star and pretend you might contend in four years because the problem is current ownership and management and that seems unlikely to change soon.
I agree with this but that doesn’t mean the FO/Ownership feels that way. And there have been no rumors to suggest robert is even available at all
There’s probably $100 – $120M excess value on that contract over the next four years and with his defense, the only floor on him is his health.
That probably brings back something like a 60 and two 50’s, but getting a 60 instead of a 40+ is a pretty huge difference.
Sale got a 70, a 55, a 40, and an unrated Victor Diaz.
Eaton brought back a 60, a 55, and a 45.
Quintana returned a 60 and a 50.
If I had to guess, I’d say Robert’s value is somewhere in there.
They honestly don’t have enough left to get him without including Salas.
Nonsense….Snelling, Lesko, Head,+ etc could get it done, but there’s no way Preller would give up that much.
If that deal were available, Preller would have done it yesterday.
You’d need to add Merrill to that package for the Sox to pick up the phone.
You would..but, if SD has Robert, Merrill becomes extraneous, right?
I’m not sure that’s true. If they’d acquire Robert, wouldnt Merrill as a centerpiece going back be substantial? They’d obviously need a big second piece (Lesko or Snelling), but I think they could do that and make it work.
I think you’re probably looking at all three.
Eloy to the Padres would make more sense and be much cheaper. They don’t have a DH.
I still think that the Padres should call the Brewers. The Brewers have a couple of guys whose value depends on them being in CF (Mitchell, Wiemer) and who aren’t getting close to CF unless Chourio is hurt. If the Padres like either of them they should make a call.
They could offer Cronenberg
With the Padres’ financial situation I don’t think they would be interested in paying down 80% of the contract. But if they did that would probably be fair.
A world-class horror director for a ~2 WAR CF? If I’m the Brewers, I make that deal every day and twice on Sunday.
Pads could probably get Adames as an add on. They need themselves another shortstop.
If they could get Adames without giving up Merrill they could have shortstops at 7 positions.
I’m stretching a little bit on Machado and Cronenworth and Tatis playing shortstop at this point but when they were moved to their current positions they were still functional shortstops so I think I’m going to keep saying they are shortstops.
You can even stretch and just classify Profar in there too. He was a SS in the minors and got moved off the position when he reached the bigs because Andrus was already established there.
He even started 60 games at short in 2018 which puts him in a similar boat to Machado.
Blake Perkins likely won’t cost much given he is 6th on tue Brewers outfield DC and could be better than most of what the Padres have
The Padres don’t “need” a CFer but almost every team would loveto have robert. Of course loving to have him and actually paying the price for him are two different things. And given the lack of offseason Robert rumors I think it is safe to say White Sox wouldn’t trade him unless they are getting a haul where they rip off the other team. So we are talking like salas, merrill, lesko or snelling, and maybe someone like mazur. Padres wouldn’t do that.
Merrill has looked ok in CF and has hit well of course it is spring and the level of competition rises significantly in regular season but they seem very content going into this year with him as CFer. They’ve been rumored talking to pham and poking around the COF trade market (which I have no idea who is even available) so Robert seems incredibly unlikely.
Thank you for very smart instant analysis. At some point, the Padres will need to develop their own starting pitchers, but I guess that can has been kicked down the road again.
Snelling and Lesko say hi
The Athletic’s Dennis Lin (Padres’ senior writer) just wrote an article on this trade that included the following quote “Preller still paid what rival evaluators and team officials alike deemed a steep price.”
Maybe Sox fans shouldn’t be bummed out about receiving only decent prospects.
Seems pretty clear at this point the Yankees aren’t going to trade Jones or Dominguez. At the same time, you don’t trade for Soto and then dither when your ace gets hurt, so I have to think this means they’re in on Snell/Montgomery.
I 1000% would have been willing to do Jones/Hampton to beat this package.
Not worth it. I’d give up Hampton. But not Jones. I don’t think Cease is all that great really. Even 6 years of Hampton is tough to give up, but you have to give to get. I could see him having a 5 ERA midseason and everyone wondering what happened with him. If the Yankees aren’t going to run 400M payrolls, they’re going to have to keep some of their prospects. 300M doesn’t go as far as it used to. I’d feel differently if the Yankees didn’t trade like 4 starting pitchers to the Padres. Obviously other teams would be better positioned to make this trade which is why he went to the Padres.
Cease has been worth 11.8 rWAR and 12.6 fWAR over the last three years.
By any measure, he’s a damn good pitcher, even if people like to pick nits about him not a truly great one.
I’ll comfortably take two years of that 8 days a week over this year’s edition of Hayken Wesnichuck and a 23 year old Vandy product from a powerhouse SoCal HS…who’s coming off a 114 wRC+ and .32 K/BB in Hi-A.
Well, by ERA (I know, I know), he’s been just okay. 4.58 ERA last year and 3.91 in 2021. Of course in 2022, he actually *was* excellent by any measure.
And Hampton easily clears any pitching prospect the Yankees have had since probably Luis Severino. Scouting the statline is rough on Jones. Either way, this should be a moot point. The Yankees should just sign Snell or Montgomery. Why give up prospects when you print money? Wesneski and Waldichuk were decent prospects but fall well short of Hampton and Warren in my opinion.
A) Hampton doesn’t even “easily clear” Thorpe, haha.
B) It’s not just about “the statline” with Jones – Law didn’t have him on his list.
I hope Eric’s right, but he’s very much the high man on Jones
Just as a thought experiment, here are a couple recent batting lines from a Yankees CF prospect spending most of the season in Hi-A with a cameo in Somerset:
Player A: .277/.350/.469, 9.6 BB%, 27.7 K%, .365 wOBA, 122 wRC+.
Player B: .267/.336/.444, 9.1 BB%, 28.9 K%, .352 wOBA, 113 wRC+.
They clearly want another playoff-ready starter now. Snell or Montgomery make a ton of sense.
There are/will be other choices.
Unless the Nestor et al are deemed inadequate, they have a couple of months to look at other solutions.
If the Yanks were to panic and go for the Boras boys they woukd’ve done it *before* the Cole news became public.
Color me skeptical.
I don’t think so. Hal’s too cheap. I think they go with what they have in house for a couple months then re-evaluate at the deadline. They should sign Snell to a Bellinger type of deal. I definitely don’t give him 6 years or whatever at this point.
Is the (non-Rockie) NL West interesting again? It’s still probably the Dodgers by 5-10 games, but I’d be curious what % of playoff scenarios have the NL West sending the most teams to the postseason after this trade
Good deal for CHW it seems. High-floor top 100 pitcher, riskier high-ceiling top 100 pitcher, decent reliever, and a 19yo lottery ticket bat.
Iriarte’s stuff is some of the best I’ve ever seen, tbh. If anything, I think his current grades are understating just how nasty those pitches are because he just doesn’t locate them well. If he can even get to Cease’s level of command, he’ll be roughly the same caliber of pitcher imo. I think he actually needs to grow into his frame first. 6’2″ 160 lbs isn’t the worst I’ve seen from a young athlete (NBA two-way guy John Butler is 7’0″ 175 lbs), but he’s just not big enough to handle his own strength.
I’m there on Iriarte too. Amazing stuff, and those physical specs seem out of date. His lower half is extremely strong and he’s done some important work to build up the muscles supporting the shoulder, which is critical for a guy with his whippy arm action.
I thought his changeup looked decent by the end of the year and it seems like there’s a lag on that among pundits. It doesn’t have a lot of velo separation from his other pitches but it features splitterish parachute action as it nears the plate like a junior version of Jhoan Duran’s splinker.
So it’s big stuff and a starter’s mix with reasonable command gains needed. My hope is that CHW resists the urge to just dump him in the ‘pen and keeps developing him as a starter this year, though he’s pretty close to mlb-ready as a reliever.
Good deal for both teams. SD should go get Snell on the short term deal that must be out there. Add either Pham or Duvall and they’d be set
They can’t. Snell would push SD well over the luxury tax. Its not an option.
I think their best bet is Pham and hope the team overachieves (as opposed to 2023’s under achievement)
The White Sox got more than the Brewers did for Burnes, so I guess that sort of defines the market and makes this a good deal for Getz. It remains to be seen if they can develop these players, but that was going to be an issue with any prospects they pick up.
For two years as opposed to one the package should be better, but I would feel better for the WS if they got a decent position player in their haul.
Did they?
Depends on what you think of the players (duh), but I’m not so convinced.
For me Ortiz is the best asset in both deals — but I have a bias against pitching prospects that teams are willing to deal. I can see different FO’s ranking Hall, Thorpe, and Iriarte in various orders and preferring any one of the three. Zavala and the Comp pick are probably roughly equal.
Should also add — I don’t think these returns being roughly equal is a surprise. Cease is coming off of a down year and has more downside risk, and I don’t think its a surprise that the Orioles valued a bit more certainty and less control whereas the Padres targeted the player with an extra year of control given their window.
They did.
Of course there will be as many opinions on each prospect as there are people and, in the long run, a few will be “right” and most people will be “wrong.”
But the White Sox got two 50’s and a 40 while the Brewers got a 50 and a 45. Sitting here today, looking at those prospect valuations without making individual judgements about which valuations are right or wrong, nobody would choose a 50 and a 45 over two 50s and a 40.
I mean, you could argue that some minor transaction was an even better deal because you were really high on some unknown guy in the deal and maybe in 5 years he would be the next Mookie Betts and you could say you were “right” at the time, but that would be confirmation bias.
Is it just me, or does there seem to be a trend where most teams are unwilling to touch their top-5 prospects in *any* trade. They all hold onto them through the uncertainties of their development, for good or bad.
Could be my imagination, but I recall contending teams in the past trading highly ranked prospects for rentals. Two 50-grade arms not close to big-league-ready, one 40-grade teenage outfielder, and one average MLB reliever seems to me like a wicked amazing deal for 2 years of an ace pitcher at $8 mil AAV. Especially considering how far the cost of starting pitching has escalated this winter
I mean…Thorpe could be in the bigs by the end of this year?
There are a lot of teams that will decide which prospects they are willing to trade and then figure out who they can get for them. That’s the opposite direction of how we usually think of it. When a team like the Yankees or Dodgers or Orioles or Rays want to make an upgrade they don’t say “let’s go get Dylan Cease.” They say “Joey Ortiz doesn’t fit into our plans, either because we don’t believe in him or because he doesn’t fit what we’re trying to do right now. Let’s see what kind of pitching upgrade we can get for him.” I don’t think that maps perfectly onto “our top 3 prospects are untouchable” but you can see how it might lead to a similar outcome.
Ironically the Padres are in probably one of the teams that do things the way we imagine them, deciding they’re going to go after a big name and start haggling about the return.
Florial says “High.”
Cleveland says… “Uh…yup…sigh…”
The approach is real but it comes with big embarrassment potential.
(Names withheld to protect the guilty.)
Well, to be top five requires a large degree of talent and probability.
Why go to the trouble of finding and developing those players to move their six years of high ceiling present/future for short term gain when, yes, aiming for 85 wins gets you a wild card?
Any high ceiling talent moved is going to have risks, as evidenced by the CWS haul.
Especially if they are close to MLB ready.
I agree, but when the Padres traded for Soto they gave up their premium prospects at the time in Abrams, Gore, and Hassell. I think they’re only willing to trade the top 3 in certain scenarios.
James Wood might have been the most valuable prospect at the time. He certainly would be today.
Flags fly forever
I will dissent a little bit from the consensus and say that this was a good deal for the Padres and not terribly puzzling because they didn’t give up that much. I’m not a huge fan of Iriarte so I don’t think trading him away is a big deal. I like Thorpe a lot and think he might surprise people as a possible 3-win type (if things break right), but when your options are giving Blake Snell $200M or trading a good pitching prospect in Thorpe you probably trade a good pitching prospect. The roster is a lot more balanced than it was last year with a similar amount of production and they’re still in good shape for a wild card spot. The risk here is that the various declining metrics on Cease aren’t a blip and are the beginning of a trend but I think the chances of that are low enough that it’s an acceptable level of risk. This team was stuck in purgatory before and now they’re back in the playoff hunt.
Their outfield needs work but the Pads are still in the hunt. If nothing else because a good pitching staff and a still good infield helps a lot.
FWIW, my take is the trade may be fair but it is far from the franchise player haul the buzz of last month. Which was never realistic, anyway.
I like it on a slightly different basis insofar as I’m completely out on Thorpe. He was throwing his fastball in the high 80s the other day. I am full stop out on any right hander at that point. His changeup could deploy a parachute and tactical flares on the way to the plate and I couldn’t care less. And that’s after coming from the Yankees who notably get the most velocity out of their pitchers that they can, so I don’t think there’s anything hiding there. I mean, maybe he’s a passable and cheap fifth starter for a few years but I don’t think there’s a chance for anything more, so I’m totally fine giving him up. At least Iriarte has that upside. If he doesn’t pan out I wouldn’t surprised if the Sox don’t have anyone from this trade to help their next competitive team
I said this somewhere else in the comments but it’s possible the Padres got him into camp, didn’t like what they saw, and traded him onwards. He could just be warming up in terms of velocity and he will throw higher later. But if he really is sitting 89 for real in the regular season then he is going to go directly to the junkballer stage of his career, and that’s a tough way to make a living. You can do it, it’s just not a great sign.
Still I’m waiting to see what he looks like going forward. I liked him a lot before.
I’ve spent the last year being pretty down on Cease and agreeing that the purported asking price was insane. What they actually got is nowhere near where they seem to have started, and I think they likely hurt themselves a great deal by waiting so long. They eventually accepted reality that the market did not view Cease as they did.
And yet, this still seems light to me. I think Eric and Tess are a little higher on the prospects than consensus, which is skewing things a bit. I tend to agree with Kiley that this package is not obviously better than what the Brewers got for one year of Burnes. It makes total sense to me from Padres standpoint.
I am going to guess that DL Hall, Jairo Iriarte, and Drew Thorpe are going to draw a lot of polarized opinions. They’re all extreme prospects in one way or another, and they’re pitchers so there’s a lot of projection going on about those extremes (will the first two ever learn to throw strikes? Can Thorpe get guys out with a slow fastball?). But I have more confidence in Burnes than Cease so maybe it should be close.
I’m always worried about prospects that get traded multiple times. That several teams are willing to part with them doesn’t really inspire much confidence.
I have to admit that while I’m a huge fan of Thorpe, seeing him get dealt the moment the Padres see him in Spring Training is a huge red flag. Like, that they aren’t getting the guy they thought they were.
Or it could just be Preller, who doesn’t get attached to prospects, doing his thing.
I think Preller is in save his job mode. Not like Thorpe was a tippy top guy.
Agreed particularly since:
– Thorpe doesn’t throw hard
– Got pegged with a 35 FB which isn’t just a velo thing here. 45 CV, so essentially a 2-3 pitch arm
– Gave up his fair share of HRs in High A at 22. His best SP prospect season was his 2022 NCAA
– the 7% BBs were excellent but
not super mega ultra duper elite
– he went from two “win now” orgs to maybe the only open tanker
Seems like there’s at least some shot at RP and/or BOR SP rather than like Shane Bieber or Kyle Hendricks
A 4.5% in AA (admittedly in only 5 starts) is super duper elite, though.
We’re all free and brave enough to shrink everyone down to the most minute info just to get a quippy post in, thanks Disney things are going great, but it doesn’t actually move anything I said. It certainly doesn’t hurt that he threw 30 strong innings at AA as a 22 YO in his first season out of college, probably a good chunk of why a RHP with limited velo and mix is seen as a serious SP prospect, but even being prospect famous doesn’t have the power to turn mole hills into mountains
Came in a little hot here sorry
Isn’t almost any traded prospect going to come from a win-now org?
For the White Sox it is hard to know what other team offers they received so it’s hard to know if this was a win or not. The return feels underwhelming compared to some of the rumors flying around about the asks from the Reds, Yankees, and Orioles. But those asks may not have been attainable. Cease is coming off a down year, and the demand for him may have been overstated. The deals that were being discussed looked like franchise altering trades, and this isn’t that.
I think whether this is a good deal or not depends on what you think of Iriarte. I think Eric is really high on a likely reliever. If that’s the case, then getting one FV50 back isn’t that exciting, even one like Thorpe who I sometimes wonder if he should be more of an FV55. What you think of Iriarte matters because it seems like pitching prospects at the FV50 level are being valued much more highly—everyone is so desperate for pitching right now in their systems. If Iriarte is valued as an FV50 then I think this works. It has isn’t a trajectory-altering trade for the franchise like the Quintana or Sale trades, but it is the kind that might provide one or two good players for a contending team if other things are done correctly.
Spoiler alert, those other things will not be done correctly.
Maybe it’s just a matter of the Padres knowing that Soto wasn’t going to stay, whereas Cease will stick around for a bit.
There’s also the part where Soto + Grisham = $36.5M, while Cease + CF (likely Jackson Merrill) is making $8.75M, and the return for Soto fills a handful of holes at league minimum or close to it. Trading Soto wasn’t a white flag move, it was a financial decision for a team that’s operating at the fuzzy edge of their budget.
“It’s just a bummer…”
They traded him, too.
As a Sox fan I’m happy enough with this return. Obviously would’ve rather had a Spencer Jones type, but this is solid. Wasn’t worth risking an injury by carrying Cease to the deadline on a hopeless roster. Bannister loading up on the young arms.
Riffing on the last paragraph instead of the trade–I hadn’t heard about Reinsdorf’s threats to leave Chicago, but that’s appalling. Maybe the reason the White Sox are struggling is not because they need public money for a stadium, but because their owner is so goddamn cheap that their largest contract ever went to Andrew Benitendi, even though they play in one of the biggest cities in the country? I’m literally a Pirates fan and I can dunk on them over this!
Never forget: Fangraphs liked the Benintendi contract.
It’s not so much whether it was a good contract, it’s that every gotdam team in the majors except the A’s (if they count) has given out a bigger dollar value contract. Even the Pirates have given out two now.
Of all the threats to leave a city, the White Sox leaving Chicago might be the least threatening one of all. Not unless a group of owners from out of town buy it specifically to move it to their city.
The A’s leaving the San Francisco area is going to serve as a cautionary tale for the rest of the league. They get to keep their revenue sharing money but they are going to give up about as much in TV money. Moving the White Sox to Nashville will take money directly out of the other owners’ pockets and will still probably lead to a loss of revenue due to losing the Chicago TV deal. If the White Sox leave, the South Side of Chicago immediately becomes the best place to put an expansion team.
I think they’ve already quit pretending that leaving is a near-term threat. They’re now saying “we’re not going to leave, but the next owner might if you don’t give us $4B to develop this lot.”
Chicago’s response to that should be “we’ll risk it”.
It’s not even a near term threat. A Nashville ownership group would have to pay the premium for getting a team in Chicago only to give it up. Possible but not likely.
“Leaving Chicago” means leaving the city and moving to the suburbs which should have been done the last go-round. They’ll still be called the Chicago White Sox even if they play in Naperville (see: Cobb County Braves )
I really don’t see why Chicago would care about that either!
It seems to me that there is a market imbalance that someone should seriously be exploiting right now, and maybe the Padres, Orioles, and Yankees are doing just that. At least to my eyes, prospects are akin to peak speculation in markets right before a bubble bursts. Everyone seems to be hoarding these “assets” until they realize they weren’t all that great of an asset to begin with and could be put to better use by buying the “unsexy” blue chips.
I was thinking along these same lines. If a team doesn’t have to trade its best prospects for top (and affordable) players, then you’d think more teams would be looking to buy. Of course, in theory, such added demand should drive the prices back up … Unless every GM draws a similar line in the sand and the seller is stuck merely picking the best of underwhelming offers (albeit from more of them). That appears to be what happened here.
What can’t be overlooked is that nearly half the teams in the league rely almost entirely on building their teams through 6-year-controlled players to compete (or not) with sub-$150M payrolls in order to clear some annual profit. The Reds could’ve beat SD’s prospect offer but — TV contracts being what they are — the long-term risk faced by each was not equal (despite each team projecting similar 2024 win totals).
The Brewers wouldn’t have regretted trading away Devin Williams a month ago. But trading away Misiorowski for Cease, for example, could too likely lead to also being forced to swap their preferred “sustainable contention” approach for one of open and closed competitive windows. Teams that can still turn an annual profit with $200M payrolls hold clear and distinct leverage in such trades.
How are you evaluating a teams profit? I think nearly all teams are profitable generally and can support huge payrolls.
No one can say for sure, but the difference between $33M per year TV revenue (Brewers) and $334M per year (Dodgers) is known. Source for the latter: https://www.sportsbusinessjournal.com/SB-Blogs/Newsletter-Media/2023/12/11.aspx
The Reds’ TV deal is worth 130% of the Padres’ before the latter got dropped by DSG, FYI.
If a prospect you keep busts, that’s baseball. If a prospect you trade away becomes Tatis Jr., the hindsight judgment looks awful. These modern FOs are mostly so risk averse, cheap, and attached to $/WAR type surplus models that they’d rather play it safe in the hopes of winning 54% of their games. It’s easier to sell a “what if” future of prospects all panning out and being stars to fans rather than a present day of “we lost this trade badly.”
Preller at least goes for it, and while he has traded away a lot of eventually valuable prospects, they haven’t really been the ones you’d have expected, such as Ty France or David Bednar. Obviously the jury is still out on the Soto/Nationals guys, but I wouldn’t say he’s losing sleep over any of them aside from Woods right now.
Only one I think he’d truly regret is Fried in the TJU trade.
Trea Turner?
Also while he would not count as prospect, Grandal (and Eflin) for Kemp being only the 3rd worst trade of Preller’s first Padre offseason is mind blowing.
Oh, good call on that one.
The funny part is, Rick Hahn kept his job for like 7 years after trading Tatis.
I think teams are WAY overvaluing their prospects right now but that’s likely because of RSNs. We basically saw this play out this winter, granted not the greatest FA crop, but everyone other than Ohtani and Nola signed pretty short term deals (and Ohtani is a once in a generation FA and Nola signed with one of the larger market teams).
Sort of like how salary inflation now makes a contract like Bryce Harper’s so appealing whereas it was the market rate at the time, it seems like the prospect deflation in recent trades (as was posted, no one is trading their tippy top prospects these days) is making the Nationals original return for Soto look better and better.
Yes and no
This highlights for me why the Bogaerts and Machado deals were such bad ideas. The team is middling and expensive. It’s aging into bad and expensive. Trading Soto for Dylan Cease is a clear downgrade. Maybe the two signings were owner ordered but still
Gotta believe those moves were Seidler pushing in all his chips to get a WS ring before passing away. Maybe a bad idea, but a more laudable one than Nutting sucking on the revenue share teet with no plan to invest and be competitive.
nice username btw
I mean, they traded Soto for 2 years each of Mike King and Dylan Cease.
Once Seidler passed away, they weren’t going to be able to sign Soto with or without those deals on the books.
Zavala seems like a strong sub if they were looking for Spencer Jones from the Yankees. He doesn’t have the video game power potential but 14 HRs, .391 OBP, and an advanced approach from an 18 YO in full season ball with a shot at CF is impressive stuff. Seems like a breakout candidate with the po-tential to be a quality two way OF
It’s wild to me that none of the players sent to CHW is a middle infielder: the Padres (of course) are all shortstops, and the White Sox might have the worst middle infield in baseball and no relevant prospects coming to change that. If there’s any team that should take a chance on the Cronenworth bounceback, or see if Merrill can actually play short, it’s them.
Sure, dumping Cronenworth or trading Merrill would represent an “extra” cost to the Padres over what they did, but these things can be adjusted for with the rest of the package.
The Padres roster still makes no sense, and as a [checks] 42% chance to make the playoffs, they’re right at the point where that be the difference between them in or out.
The White Sox top prospect is literally a shortstop. They also drafted Gonzalez in the 1st rd in 2023. They also want to give shumake( former 1st) and Jose Rodriguez some run to see what’s there as well, sure they both low obp average pop guys but those can be solid pieces if they can play a decent ss.
Ah, I guess I was overly influenced by this site projecting him to 3B.
Padres are at the perfect point of the win curve where adding a 3 win/180 IP starter makes a ton of sense. Look at the projected WC teams. I don’t think it’s crazy to say they could beat out the Dbacks or division loser of Cubs/Reds for a WC2/3.
Seems obvious what the Padres were doing. Traded 1 year of Soto for 2 years of Cease/King, stayed under the luxury tax, while fielding a more complete team. If they kept Soto, they’d be over the tax and fielding a rotation of Yu, Musgrove, and spare parts. Article seems like it was quickly written up and then an editor made additions at the end about the monetary aspect of it all.
It’s not clear to me that this team is more competitive than Soto plus spare parts. For one thing they have zero outfielders. A team needs outfielders to catch the batted balls hit to the outfield.
Zero outfielders is a bit disingenuous considering Tatis won the PLATINUM GLOVE in RF last year (and isn’t exactly a bad hitter).
Hyperbole sure, but it still isn’t a “more complete team.” They added 2 pitchers and subtracted 2 OF. Maybe they lost 1-3 WAR and saved $40m in 2024. They need to undo the Bogaerts and/or Machado deals to get out of the expensive .500 team trap, eating whatever they have to while those guys are still good players
If you look at Cease/King for Soto (not exactly fair comparison since it’s 2 roster spots versus 1), Padres are looking at similar production at 40% of the cost. The outfield is sub-optimal, but they have the 2nd best RF in the game. We’ll see if Merrill can stick in CF and if Profar doesn’t work, there’s still Duvall (edit: lol) and Pham floating around.
I guess one could add Grisham for the 2nd roster spot with his production and salary. I can see why Preller thought he had to do it but it’s still an expensive .500 team.
The image of Duvall and Pham floating around and Duvall being scooped up by the Braves helicopter leaving Pham in the open sea is both amusing and heartbreaking
TBF, I am much more down on losing Grisham than Soto. If the calculus was Grisham for Higgy in the larger trade scenario, I would’ve much rather kept the former and found a passable 2nd C.
The team configuration is janky.. I could look past the Machado or Bogaerts contract, but not both. I’m going to be inconsolable if Kim doesn’t resign b/c of Cronenworth’s deal (although that would solve the issue of a low-power 2B playing out of position..) Still, there’s a lot of present value and depending how some of the new blood shakes out they can be in WC contention, I think.
They could theoretically add Kim in a Machado or Bogaerts trade to pay down less money.
They can definitely compete for a WC much like Arizona did.
Pham is out there. Straw can be had practically free.
Merril might pan out.
Trades are still doable.
Also note that whoever goes to LF is going to bat pretty low in the order. Tatis, Machado, et all should anchor a good enough offense and if not, Soto himself couldn’t save the season.
Priorities: locking down the rotation properly needed solving first on *this* team.
Love the Slender Man reference.
I’ve decided AJ Preller is just Jerry Dipoto with ADD.