It’s Rock Bottom for Shelby Miller

Shelby Miller just started his tenth game of the season. He has, to his name, all of one single quality start. It came a few weeks ago, in Atlanta, where Miller went to work against one of the worst team offenses in recent baseball history. Miller was removed after the six-inning minimum. He racked up one strikeout, to go with a pair of walks. He also hit a guy. That guy was Erick Aybar, who has a .423 OPS. In Miller’s one quality start, he was statistically bad. Then there are the nine other starts.

In an era of fair and balanced transactions, no offseason move got even a fraction of the criticism of Arizona’s Shelby Miller trade. Those opposed to the move believed the Diamondbacks overpaid for a non-elite starting pitcher. FanGraphs, of course, figured the Braves made out like bandits, and that also happened to be the industry consensus. But to be absolutely clear, no one back then thought that Miller was anything less than a legitimate No. 3. The criticism then had to do with Ender Inciarte and Dansby Swanson. If anything, there were indications Miller might’ve been on the verge of breaking out. At the moment, he’s a shell of himself. Miller has gone completely awry, and he and the Diamondbacks are suffering.

What does rock bottom look like for a big-league starting pitcher? I guess it would look like losing your job. Getting sent to the bullpen, or, worse, getting sent to the minors, or dropped outright. Miller, for the time being, remains a part of the Arizona rotation, but he’s at sort of a relative rock bottom. Tuesday, he was awful against the Pirates. Now here’s his season line, converted to percentile rankings in various important categories. This is out of all pitchers in the majors with at least 20 innings.

miller-percentile-ranks

Miller has been horrible across the board. People have been worried about Chris Archer, but at least he has his strikeouts. When people were worried about David Price, he had his strikeouts and walks under control. Miller hasn’t struck enough batters out. He’s walked entirely too many — he’s at 29, to go with 30 whiffs. And the batted balls have gotten pounded, so there hasn’t even been modest contact, which has previously been a Miller specialty. If you don’t like hard-hit rate, Statcast agrees that Miller has been hit hard. Everything bad you could imagine — statistically, it’s all been happening. Miller is completely wrong.

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It’s not necessarily his first time going through this. That provides some hope; Miller has scuffled before. Back in 2014, there was a 16-start stretch during which Miller had 45 walks and 59 strikeouts. His hard-hit rate was up, and Miller just appeared to be wonky. He got better from there; eventually, he was deemed worth the Arizona trade package. But Miller didn’t struggle like this. This is the lowest point. And what’s funny is, at a glance, it’s hard to see what’s going on. Here’s Miller from last year, when he was fine:

Here’s Miller from Tuesday, in a bad start in a bad month in a bad season:

One of those pitchers got a blockbuster trade return. One of those pitchers is living a nightmare. In case you ever lose perspective, this is how tough it is to be successful in the major leagues. Somewhere in here is the line between being a good starter and being one of the very worst starters at the level.

When something like this is happening, it’s not just a problem with pitch selection. And while Miller’s velocity is down, it’s not way down, and look at that Pirates clip above. Miller actually just had good velocity on Tuesday. He still got knocked around, suggesting a problem with location, suggesting a problem with mechanics. I don’t think that Miller is hurt. I’m sure he’s beat up, psychologically, and that can wear on a guy, but I assume Miller just doesn’t have his comfortable delivery.

It’s time to speculate about that! It’s time for an amateur dive into pitching mechanics. All the usual caveats apply here. What follows might very well not be insightful, but I feel enough like I might be on to something that I’m going forward with this. We’ll see Miller throwing fastballs in 2015 and 2016. On the left, last year; on the right, Tuesday. The angles are almost identical.

miller-comp-1-2

This is Miller at his maximum, I don’t know, reach-back. I’ve added some red lines to show how Miller collapses on his right leg. Everyone collapses on the back leg, but there is something here, something I observed in several other clips. The visual angle from last year is slightly obtuse. The visual angle from this year is slightly acute. That means that Miller is either collapsing more, or he’s collapsing earlier. Either one would be a meaningful change. Collapsing earlier would throw off his timing. Collapsing more would alter the plane, and change how Miller generates force.

Here’s the same set of pictures, but looking at something else:

miller-comp-1

Last year, Miller reached more behind his back. You don’t see that on the right — his hand and the ball are in front of his hip, visually, whereas on the left, there’s space between them and Miller’s butt. The left arm looks about the same, so it’s not an issue of full shoulder rotation. It’s more like partial rotation. Last year, there was more time for Miller’s arm to generate speed. In the image on the right, there’s just less distance to go between the ball and the eventual release point. Seems like it could be compensating for a timing problem.

Here’s our last image pair, showing Miller at release:

miller-comp-2

The release points themselves aren’t too dissimilar. Visually, you see the ball a little above home plate, to the right side. What’s different is how the ball is getting to the release point. Miller on the left has a lesser arm angle than Miller on the right. On the right, Miller is reaching higher, which could have to do with collapsing so low. It might be a way to try to regain lost height. Maybe this is just something that happens when Miller’s delivery is slightly rushed. If he’s collapsing early, that kicks everything off, and then the arm isn’t totally in sync. When the arm’s out of sync, the pitches are out of sync, and baseballs don’t go where they’re supposed to.

Mechanically, I’m an idiot. I don’t know Shelby Miller’s mechanics like Shelby Miller, nor do I know them like Miller’s coaches. They’ve been working on him for weeks, and they could have their own suspicions. What is evident is that Miller isn’t yet fixed. They’ll keep trying, but the season keeps going, and the numbers keep getting worse. You wonder if they could even get any worse.

That’s what’s known: performance-wise, Shelby Miller is at rock bottom. My guess is what’s featured above; I think his delivery might be off from the start, and that would leave him out of whack. If this is an issue with Miller’s right leg, that seems like the kind of thing that could and should be fixed. There’s not actually all that great a distance between this version of Shelby Miller and a successful one. You could forgive Miller if he feels like he’s a million miles away.





Jeff made Lookout Landing a thing, but he does not still write there about the Mariners. He does write here, sometimes about the Mariners, but usually not.

45 Comments
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LHPSU
10 years ago

Dansby Swanson in A+ and AA this year: .316/.409/.503 in 198 PAs, 25:23 BB:SO, 4 HRs, 10 of 12 on steals.

You’re welcome.

RonnieDobbs
10 years ago
Reply to  LHPSU

I am sure that they are feeling fine about moving Inciarte at his peak.

srpst23Member since 2025
10 years ago
Reply to  RonnieDobbs

Well even with only 0.2 WAR, Ender is worth almost a full win more than Shelby right now so….

RonnieDobbs
10 years ago
Reply to  srpst23

That doesn’t change that they sold him at his peak

JediHoyer
10 years ago
Reply to  RonnieDobbs

Babip 50 points below career, was hurt, most likely will add some baserunning and is already still a positive player?

Barnard
10 years ago
Reply to  LHPSU

I mean, I don’t think losing Dansby Swanson himself is necessarily that unfortunate because the Diamondbacks have a wealth of middle infielders in their system that are competent at the minimum. This all just looks especially bad because Miller has cratered.

JediHoyer
10 years ago
Reply to  Barnard

I’m sure glad the cubs didn’t think this way when they got russell after they already had castro and baez.

Barnard
10 years ago
Reply to  JediHoyer

Javier Baez is not that good to put it kindly and Starlin Castro was coming off a pretty bad season when they acquired Russell if I remember correctly. Not really a useful comparison

JediHoyer
10 years ago
Reply to  Barnard

Castro was in the midst of his best season, baez was a top 10 prospect at the time.

JediHoyer
10 years ago
Reply to  Barnard

http://www.baseballamerica.com/minors/midseason-top-50-injury-cant-knock-buxton-1/#feOPpfb7RQ7D1QyG.97
And if baez is not that good who are the wealth of middle infielders that are leaps and bounds better?

Barnard
10 years ago
Reply to  JediHoyer

Brandon Drury, Chris Owings, Jean Segura at the ML level. Jack Reinheimer in AAA. Jamie Westbrook & Ildemaro Vargas in AA.

My point wasn’t so much to knock Swanson down, more so just to state that the Diamondbacks dealt from a position of strength, and that the value of what they have in place should be accounted for when considering the future value they traded away. They just missed the ball on valuing Miller, and there’s no debating that.

JediHoyer
10 years ago
Reply to  Barnard

1) they acquired segura after the Miller trade, so counterintuitive to your point to include him
2) baez is 23, last year Owings was 23 for half the year and was -1.4 war.
3) drury is a 3b/of. Why include him up the middle? (again baez is younger as well)
4) reinhamer is also older than baez an has been an average aaa hitter
5) westbrook is the first interesting up the middle guy, he however is a second baseman.
6) vargas is 25 and still in AA.
In summation SS wasn’t a position of strength, and none of these guys are leaps and bounds better. Baez is only older than westbrook and had the best minors track record. Too early to dismiss that.

Barnard
10 years ago
Reply to  JediHoyer

1) not counterintuitive; I’m attempting to make the point that the loss of future value from trading Dansby is somewhat countered by the gained present/potential future value of what’s in place. Segura is in place and providing the D’backs value as of right now.
2) owings was worth ~2 WAR the previous two seasons before his 2015.
3) drury played 50% of his games at 2B in 2015; not as many this year but it’s not inconceivable to consider him as a MIF/utility guy overall.
4-6) okay

Didn’t mean to step on your toes about Javier Baez or start a debate about his future

JediHoyer
10 years ago
Reply to  Barnard

You said they traded Swanson from depth, including their starter whom they had to trade for after the fact does not make sense. He wasn’t in their depth chart when Swanson was dealt.

JediHoyer
10 years ago
Reply to  Barnard

Yeah it’s not about baez, I just don’t think their is depth at ss. And I thought the fact they traded for their ss after the fact was proof. Like if the rays traded keirnaeir then a month later decided to go get mike trout I don’t think you can include trout as them trading from depth.

rbemont
10 years ago
Reply to  JediHoyer

True. I think everyone around FO in MLB understands that if you can play MI at the professional level, then you can learn any other position if you have a quality MLB bat.

I think people involved in sabermetrics and scouting have known this for a long time, it’s nothing new. But, I do hear it talked about more frequently on MLB network … meaning that more casual fans should be aware of this and stockpiling “middle infield prospects” should never be viewed as a bad thing. It’s like saying “They have too many pitchers throwing 97+ in their system.”

——————————————-

At this point are we still looking at Baez as a prospect or long-term solution? To me, he seems like the guy that will always get included in trades because (1) he has some power and (2) enough GM/coaches are arrogant enough to think they are the one to “fix” (aka, the bad boyfriend scenario).

———————————————-

I feel the same way about Diaz & Peralta in StL. Move Diaz to 2B and get Wong some help in AA/AAA.

JediHoyer
10 years ago
Reply to  rbemont

I still feel he is a prospect, but right now there isn’t anywhere for him to get everyday at bats and he has shown value as a utility guy. He failed in 52 games as a 21 year old but has been worth .9 war in 61 games since. My point was mainly above average hitting shortstops are such a valuable commodity because they will most likely be pluses anywhere in the infield, possibly even c.f..

CosmoMember since 2020
10 years ago
Reply to  rbemont

Also a Cubs fan… RE: Baez… I haven’t paid attention to his offensive stats. I’ve heard he’s cut down on his Ks. He’s been playing outstanding defense at multiple positions and could be their best defensive infielder (this is by word of mouth, stats may not back it up) His ceiling is still there, but there’s also a chance he’s just a very good utility guy like Jedi says.

One of the things Cubs management did when they first called him up in ’14 was just let him play with no instruction. They wanted to give him 40 games or so to shock him. They let him fail because he has so much natural ability that he wasn’t really listening to coaching. He’s got the skills and he’s playing better, but I can’t honestly tell you he’ll be a star.

mike sixelMember since 2016
10 years ago

He’s been so bad, that he doesn’t qualify because he has so few innings. It’s an odd quirk that even though he has started this many games, he doesn’t show up on “leaderboards”……

SucramRenrut21 Turner
10 years ago

I also froze the vids after the follow through when his hand is near the ground and it looks like old Shelby was throwing more across his body. Perhaps that made it harder for batters to pick up his pitches, or led to more horizontal movement on his fastball?

Hurtlocker
10 years ago

Makes you wonder if he isn’t tipping his pitches and the league just figured it out? There is talk the Jeff Samardzija was tipping his pitches last year and the Giants fixed that, hence his success this year.

victorvran
10 years ago
Reply to  Hurtlocker

He has no control. I don’t think you need to be tipping your pitches to struggle when you can’t command any of your offspeed pitches for strikes and the other team can just sit on the fastball.

jrubyMember since 2016
10 years ago
Reply to  victorvran

And, from the other end, I don’t think the league figuring out some pitch-tipping info can account for a guy going this bad this fast without something more being horrible wrong

Johnston
10 years ago
Reply to  victorvran

I agree with Victor.

okreps
10 years ago
Reply to  victorvran

Yeah, the big difference I can see between Miller this year and Samardzija last year is that while Samardzija allowed much harder contact and also saw his K% dip and his contact rates spike, his BB% was very similar to the year before, suggesting that he was still controlling his pitches but hitters knew what was coming. As for Miller, he has similar trends in some numbers but his BB% has also spiked, suggesting that it’s the command that’s leading to his problems.

Klubot3000Member since 2017
10 years ago

Mr. Sullivan, I do love reading your stuff and appreciate you taking a stab at diagnosing what’s wrong with Mr. Miller. However, the angles in those two videos aren’t close enough to be able to draw the conclusions you’re talking about above. The part that stood out is where the top of his cap is relative to the plate (just off the edge of the left side in the ’15 still, on the inner third in the ’16 still conservatively 10 inches difference). Move the angle of that camera even a couple degrees to the right and his right hand is “reaching” as far back as last year. It’d be hard to distinguish that release point if the view angle was identical. He does look a bit softer on the drive leg in the first two stills, and I’m sure he’s trying like hell to pitch better. What seems even more shocking is the huge change in the mix of 2- and 4-seam fastballs he’s throwing when compared to last year. Going from 34% 2-seamers to 4% and having atrocious results might also be related, no?

SteveM
10 years ago
Reply to  Jeff Sullivan

You’re missing the most obvious difference that would be to blame for most of the problems; those uniforms. Melt them. Make them go away.

Goldsteins_Tool_Fedora
10 years ago
Reply to  Jeff Sullivan

I wonder if he is having shoulder issues.

Klubot3000Member since 2017
10 years ago
Reply to  Jeff Sullivan

Thanks, Jeff. That does look a lot closer!

Matt
10 years ago

Mechanics aside, is there a reason the Diamondbacks had Miller completely abandon his two seam fastball/sinker? I seem to remember an article here on Fangraphs during spring training that featured an interview with Miller specifically noting the use of his two seamer/sinker as being the reason for his success in Atlanta. It was his most used pitch last season according to Fangraphs’ pitchf/x listings and so far he’s thrown just 39 of them this year, his least used pitch.

The Braves getting him to use that two seam fastball is the reason he went from being a 40% GB to a 47% GB pitcher. Now he’s right back to being a 40% GB pitcher with that 7% allocated evenly back to line drives and fly balls. You really do not want to be a 60% LD+FB pitcher in Chase Field of all places. The Diamondbacks tried that with Ian Kennedy in a similarly idiotic trade that sent Max Scherzer to Detroit for Kennedy and Edwin Jackson. Take away one season of insane luck and Kennedy was barely average in Arizona.

Miller, without his two seam fastball, is basically four seam and cutter mixing in the occasional curve (which he can’t throw for strikes or get people to chase) and a changeup (which is just 2mph slower than his cutter and 6-7 slower than his four seam). None of the four pitches are even above average. He has always been a mostly fastball pitcher, but the two seamer was a great way for him to induce weak contact from both lefties and righties. Now for some reason it is gone.

It is obvious Miller is having major mechanical issues, there was a string of starts where he was cutting his pitching hand open because it was dragging on the mound during his follow through. The only way that would happen is by collapsing and overstriding, but that still doesn’t explain the change in pitch mix. Even if Miller were completely fixed mechanically, I don’t see how he can possibly get batters out consistently without that two seam fastball. You can make 60%+ LD+FB work in Busch Stadium or Turner Field, two of the least homer friendly parks in baseball but there is no way that can work in Arizona unless you’re also missing a ton of bats. Unless Arizona gets him throwing that two seamer again, I don’t see any hope.

BipMember since 2016
10 years ago
Reply to  Matt

Arizona does seem to have pretty bad “luck” with pitchers going there and suddenly being bad, or being bad with them and being good after they leave. Brandon McCarthy I think outright said that they messed with his pitch mix, and that the Yankees told him to go back to his old mix after they traded for him, and he was suddenly good again. Are there lessons not being learned in that organization?

rbemont
10 years ago
Reply to  Bip

Curt Schilling and Randy Johnson seemed to do okay, Dan Haren had his 2 best seasons there. Edwin Jackson did fine. Wade MIley, Ian Kennedy.

I don’t know if Arizona has more pitching under-performances than any other team.

JediHoyer
10 years ago
Reply to  rbemont

Brandon webb!

rbemont
10 years ago
Reply to  JediHoyer

Brandon Webb started his career with the DBacks … Bip was saying that pitchers got worse or had some “bad luck” when they came to Arizona … so I mentioned only pitchers that came to AZ and not only did okay, but excelled.

JediHoyer
10 years ago
Reply to  rbemont

I just like giving dudes shoutouts when they throw like 75% sinkers and still are great.

Matt
10 years ago
Reply to  rbemont

I think the issue with Arizona is that what they want their pitchers doing does not mesh well with the environment they are pitching in. A ~40% FB rate is typically the dividing line between a “fly ball” pitcher and not, Miller was a 40%+ FB pitcher in STL. ATL was able to fix that by getting him to use that two seamer and he became a legit ground ball pitcher that induced weak contact.

Arizona, under La Russa’s leadership, has him right back to doing the same stuff he was doing in St. Louis. In a homer suppressing park like Busch Stadium, you can get away with that. In Arizona, you get shelled. For some reason, Arizona took a working machine, hit it with a sledgehammer and are now wondering how the machine broke. It is not the first time. Brandon McCarthy is one, Ian Kennedy was not fine in Arizona at all. He’s an extreme FB pitcher who got away with some batted ball luck to put up that one good season and got shelled every other year.

That doesn’t mean pitchers can’t succeed in Arizona, plenty have, but Arizona doesn’t seem to understand *why* those pitchers succeed and why others don’t. Brandon Webb is a perfect example, he put up a 63% GB rate in Arizona by throwing a billion sinkers. Shelby Miller could potentially be that type of pitcher, the Braves had him on the way, but the Dbacks undid all of the advances he made. Miller isn’t the only one, look how many former top prospects the Dbacks sold low on or simply destroyed because they couldn’t develop arms. Bauer, Skaggs, Bradley, Corbin (TJS victim).

That said, Arizona is hardly the only team to do questionable things with the development of their pitchers, Baltimore comes to mind as an organization that does baffling things that go against common sense. Pitcher development is a crap shoot, Arizona just seems to throw snake eyes more than most.

rbemont
10 years ago
Reply to  Matt

Honestly, this was his “conflict” with the Cardinals strategy. The sum of Dave Duncan’s success could be summed up by “pounding the zone with 2-seamers and sinkers”. Whether it was woody williams, Chris Carpenter, Jeff Suppan, Joel Pineiro, etc. Don’t give up walks and get tons of grounders while reducing homers. The strategy/philosophy continued even after duncan was gone.

They wanted Miller to do something similar to what carpenter did as he made his transition from middling starter to dominant pitcher. Miller didn’t accept the premise and tried to continue to be the “Big Texas Right-Hander” that could blow people away.

The cardinals got frustrated with him because his strategy didn’t lead to success, but he didn’t seem to accept or be open to a change in philosophy. For the Cardinals, he was the pitching comparable to Colby Rasmus.

——————————————–

Pitching mechanic flaws are a lot like hitting mechanic flaws in that the variances deal with timing and specifically where the hands are when the front foot strikes the ground (heel drop for batters). Miller, moreso than other pitchers, seems to have more variances in his timing and basic mechanics. He’s not very repeatable, and therefore usually very inconsistent. He’s one of those guys that gets one thing ironed out, and starts a new variance.

CosmoMember since 2020
10 years ago
Reply to  rbemont

I’ve picked up the fact that you’re a Cardinals fan. I’ve watched from afar as they’ve had success turning middling starters into aces… and I’ve seen it enough to know it’s not just pixie dust, it’s a definite philosophy. My point is Carlos Martinez. I know he’s got great stuff, but he’s also had problems with lefties. I feel like he’s one of those guys if he was in another organization he could fail, but with the Cardinals there’s a pretty good chance of him being an ace.

The Ghost of Johnny Dickshot
10 years ago

I think his problem is those god awful grey uniforms.

RonnieDobbs
10 years ago

I am wondering why they aren’t sending him down or finding a reason to DL him. Why watch the train wreck every fifth day? He doesn’t give them much of a chance to win in his current state. The DBacks have to hope that this is fixable and it isn’t going to fix itself by trotting him out there every fifth day.

Goldsteins_Tool_Fedora
10 years ago

Seems like it was just yesterday it was a young Shelby listening to Taylor Swift on a bus.

Deacon DrakeMember since 2017
10 years ago

The leg drive issue can be for compensating any number of injuries. Collapsing does allow the pitcher to push and accelerate harder toward home plate, releasing the ball closer as well. All things being equal, the marginal gains can make a big difference for an average pitcher. Clearly all things are not equal here.

More than likely, he is collapsing to compensate for a lower body, back, or oblique injury… if it is any of those things, rest is probably the best bet for recovery and this would be seen as rock bottom.

Cannot comment on him dropping the 2-seamer, especially in Phoenix. Possible it wasn’t moving as much as it was in Atlanta.

edwhetstoneMember since 2016
10 years ago

Went down a Shelby Miller stat rabbit hole, and one thing jumped out: he’s faced 120 left-handed hitters, walked 20, and struck out 11. He’s faced 95 right-handed hitters, walked 9, and struck out 19.

It’s not like he’s killing it against right-handers (.267/.344/.482, 4.84 FIP, 1.48 WHIP), but man those splits are weird.

jsc1973
10 years ago

The part about the D-backs tinkering with his pitch selection and de-emphasizing the two-seam fastball reminds me of the experiment that the Red Sox apparently tried with Rick Porcello last year, when he started throwing more four-seamers up in the zone and paid for it with a ton of hard contact. That cost their pitching coach his job.

If that’s what the D-backs have tried to do with Shelby Miller, someone needs to knock it off. Not every pitcher can turn into Clayton Kershaw just by following his pitch selection pattern.