Jay Jaffe’s 2021 Hall of Fame Ballot

The following article is part of Jay Jaffe’s ongoing look at the candidates on the BBWAA 2021 Hall of Fame ballot. For a detailed introduction to this year’s ballot, and other candidates in the series, use the tool above; an introduction to JAWS can be found here. For a tentative schedule and a chance to fill out a Hall of Fame ballot for our crowdsourcing project, see here. All WAR figures refer to the Baseball-Reference version unless otherwise indicated.

By any measure, my first opportunity to cast an official Hall of Fame ballot has been a long time coming. It’s been 10 years since I was admitted to the Baseball Writers Association of America, 17 since I introduced the system that became JAWS, 19 since I first broke down a BBWAA Hall of Fame ballot (making this my 20th election covered), and 51 since I arrived on this planet, kicking and screaming. That paper ballot, the most long-awaited envelope I’ve received since I applied to college, arrived on November 18, and while I’ve mostly known whom I planned to include all along, I went through my full process, give or take a few one-and-done stragglers whom I’ll cover in early January — just as I’ve done with my virtual ballots in years past — before arriving at my final slate.

The irony in getting a ballot in this particular year is that by the standards of recent elections, it’s a dud. A total of 14 players have been elected in their first year of eligibility over the past seven cycles, but this year’s first-year crop has nobody of that caliber. And in the wake of three beloved players overcoming minimal early support to gain entry on their final tries — namely Tim Raines, Edgar Martinez, and Larry Walker — there’s much less in the way of impending drama. Which isn’t to say that from among this year’s 25 candidates there aren’t some worthy of following in that trio’s footsteps, with the voting body won over by the efforts of statheads such as myself, but the best of those are a few years away from reaching 75%. Meanwhile, the top four returning candidates are particularly polarizing, with only one really within striking distance during this cycle. We’ve had far more fun with this process in years past, and we’ll have more fun with it in the future, but this year, there’s far less sunshine and fewer lollipops to go around. How very 2020.

If there’s good news, it’s that with a record 22 candidates elected over those seven cycles, what was once a nearly unmanageable backlog has cleared up. Circa 2014, the ballot had 17 players who exceeded the JAWS standards at their respective positions, and 14 who had a JAWS of at least 50.0 (or 40.0 for catchers), thus requiring all but the most small-Hall-minded voters to perform some kind of triage to winnow the field down to 10 candidates who could fit on their ballots.

Even so, there’s still no such thing as a perfect ballot. With my annual exercise comes an acknowledgement of the numerous subjective choices that go into selecting even the most objectively-minded slate. How much leeway to grant if one is using WAR and JAWS? How much emphasis to put on postseason performance, awards, and less quantifiable considerations? Where to draw the line with performance-enhancing drugs? Should we weight the things we’ve learned about these players’ off-field lives that we can’t stomach? Perfection may be unattainable, but that’s not to say it’s not worth pursuing, and if we don’t get there… well, we do the best we can.

With that ample preamble out of the way, we turn to the actual slate. Here are the top 17 candidates on the ballot, the ones in serious consideration for those 10 precious spots (beyond the odd courtesy vote):

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Top 2021 Hall of Fame Candidates by JAWS Margin
Rk YoB Standards Career WAR Peak WAR JAWS Margin
Barry Bonds 9 3 162.8 72.7 117.7 64.1
Roger Clemens 9 3 139.2 65.9 102.6 41.0
Curt Schilling 9 2 79.5 48.6 64.1 2.5
Scott Rolen 4 3 70.1 43.6 56.9 1.2
Manny Ramirez 5 2 69.3 39.9 54.6 1.0
Todd Helton 3 1 61.8 46.6 54.2 -0.6
Andruw Jones 4 1 62.7 46.4 54.6 -3.4
Sammy Sosa 9 1 58.6 43.8 51.2 -6.0
Bobby Abreu 2 0 60.2 41.6 50.9 -6.3
Gary Sheffield 7 0 60.5 38.0 49.3 -7.9
Billy Wagner 6 0 27.7 19.8 23.7 -8.9
Jeff Kent 8 0 55.4 35.8 45.6 -11.4
Tim Hudson 1 0 57.9 38.3 48.1 -13.5
Mark Buehrle 1 0 59.1 35.8 47.4 -14.2
Andy Pettitte 3 0 60.2 34.1 47.2 -14.4
Torii Hunter 1 0 50.7 30.8 40.7 -17.3
Omar Vizquel 4 0 45.6 26.8 36.2 -19.1
SOURCE: Baseball-Reference
JAWS Margin = difference between individual player’s JAWS and position standard. Yellow shading = meets standard at position.

Of this year’s five candidates who exceed the JAWS standards, three top the career WAR and peak WAR standards as well (down from five last year). Two more top the career and JAWS standards but not the peak one, while three others top only the peak standards. Those tallies are represented in the “Standards” column in the table above, with the yellow squares highlighting the particular standards met. Among those who don’t meet any standards are three players I classify as “candidates of interest,” namely Abreu, Sheffield, and Wagner — players who fall shy on JAWS but about whom I remain particularly open-minded, for reasons explained below.

Three others are candidates who have garnered enough support from other voters to remain on the ballot for multiple years, but are along for the ride here as far as I’m concerned. If you want to know more about why Kent, Pettitte, and Vizquel don’t make my cut, I’ve got a few thousand words to that effect with regards to each. Likewise with regards to the three most prominent first-year candidates, Buehrle, Hudson, and Hunter.

That leaves 11 candidates competing for the 10 spots on my ballot. The easy thing to do would be to identify the one candidate I feel the least compelled to vote for and call it a day, but if you’ve been reading through the entire series, you know I’ve already singled two of them out, and have remained noncommittal on a couple of others. For the first time since I began this particular exercise in 2013, I’m not married to the idea that I need to use all 10 spots. Still, I’ll show my work.

First off, as I’ve said repeatedly throughout this series, when it comes to candidates connected to performance-enhancing drugs, I draw a line between those whose allegations date to the time when the game had no testing regimen or means of punishment (i.e., prior to 2004) and those that came afterwards. With no means of enforcing a paper ban, and with players flouting such a ban being rewarded left and right amid what was truly a complete institutional failure that implicated owners, the commissioner, and the players’ union as well as the players, I simply don’t think voters can apply a retroactive morality to say that a Bonds or a Clemens or a Sosa shouldn’t be in the Hall on that basis alone. I’ve done enough research to believe that this is a reasonable place to start, but it must be acknowledged that there’s no consensus within the electorate over how to handle the issue, and voters’ views on the topic range from “performance only” to “hang ’em high at the first hint of suspicion.” This issue alone is the biggest impediment to a perfect ballot; some of us, voter or bystander, will never agree on how to handle the problem, and no solution will please everybody.

But anyway, two spots on my ballot go to Bonds, the all-time home run leader, and Clemens, the best pitcher since World War II. As noted within my profiles of the gruesome twosome, the pair made big gains on the 2016 and ’17 ballots and surpassed the 50% mark in the latter year, but have since seen their momentum slowed, each gaining just 6.9% over the past three cycles to bring them into the 61% range. My ballot will make them 3-for-3 among first-time voters (including colleague David Laurila), but right now it appears that they’re not flipping enough “no” votes to “yes” votes to get to 75% by the end of next year’s cycle.

Based on that same line I’ve drawn, I have to cross Ramirez off my list. On a performance-only basis, he would get my vote, as he’s one of the greatest hitters of all time; his 154 OPS+ ranks 20th among players with at least 7,000 PA. Right now, I can’t get past the two failed tests, not when better players who never tested positive are being kept out.

If you read Monday’s installment of this series, you also know that I’ve crossed Schilling off of my list, a decision that did not come lightly. Yes, he’s 27th among starters in JAWS, and stands as the best postseason pitcher of his generation, with an outstanding strikeout rate and the best strikeout-to-walk ratio since the pitching distance moved to 60-foot-6. Voters have been swayed by my research, and I’ve included him on six out of eight virtual ballots, leaving him off only in 2014 and ’19 due to the limitations of space.

As I’ve painstakingly detailed, Schilling has spent the past half-decade finding ways to offend just about everybody. An abridged list: fired from his job as an ESPN analyst for “unacceptable” conduct stemming from his posting of an offensive Facebook meme about transgender bathroom laws; praised a photo showing a pro-Donald Trump t-shirt that advocated lynching (“Rope. Tree. Journalist. Some assembly required.”) by tweeting, “So much awesome here”; accused Orioles outfielder Adam Jones of lying about being subjected to racist taunts at Fenway Park; kept the company of white supremacists Paul Nehlen and Steve Bannon; shared numerous conspiracy theories including one suggesting that one of the survivors of the Parkland massacre was a paid crisis actor; devoted considerable attention over the past two months to parroting Donald Trump’s thoroughly discredited claims of election fraud, as well as at least one call for the President to declare martial law; and while amplifying a debunked claim that Dr. Anthony Fauci approved hydroxychloroquine as a cure for coronaviruses in 2005, called Dr. Fauci “a war criminal,” compared him to “the pile of steaming shit uncovered at Nuremberg and exposed 9/1/46,” and fostered fears of forced vaccinations.

That litany is so far beyond the pale that I refuse to put an X next to his name now that we’re playing for keeps. This isn’t about his politics (as Schilling so often claims), this is about his using his sizable platform to spread hatred, intolerance, and disinformation. His platform will only grow if and when he’s elected — and I thoroughly expect that he will be, if not this year then soon — and I want no part of that. It’s my ballot, and my protest.

Note here that I’m not invoking the so-called character clause, which I refuse to put any stock in on the grounds that it was introduced by a commissioner who spent his entire 24-year tenure enforcing the color line. Going down that particular road on a ballot that has, by my count, five players alleged to have committed domestic abuse, another player with multiple incidents involving driving under the influence of alcohol, and one with allegations of an affair with an underaged girl — I’m not about to apply some subjective weight regarding whose conduct is worse, or whether what we know about their misdeeds is enough to offset their numbers and other accomplishments. This is all ugly stuff, but sadly not outside the realm of what Hall of Famers and other athletes have done. To say that these candidates aren’t active threats to use their platforms to promote such behavior at least distinguishes them from Schilling… well, it’s not a great rationalization, but it’s the best I’ve got at the moment.

Moving on, the easiest to include from among the rest of the candidates is Rolen, who clears all three standards and ranks 10th among third basemen in JAWS. Last year, he surged from 17.2% to 35.3%, and at this point, with 66 ballots published in Ryan Thibodaux’s Ballot Tracker, he’s polling at 56.3%. An exceptional but under-appreciated player on both sides of the ball, he combined power and patience at the plate with some of the best glove work the hot corner has ever seen. Even in a career that contained numerous injuries and ended at age 37, he ranks third at the position both in fielding runs (+175) and in Gold Gloves (eight) and, depending upon your choice of metric, belongs among the top 10 or 20 hitters for the position as well. Particularly at an underrepresented spot — there are just 15 third basemen in the Hall, compared to 27 right fielders and 19 to 21 at every other position besides catcher — he merits enshrinement.

Here are the lightning-round summaries for three more candidates who get spots, all of whom have appeared on at least two of my recent virtual ballots, and all of whom have already posted net gains of at least 10 votes from among the first 65 voters to publish theirs:

Todd Helton (15th among first basemen in JAWS, 29.2% in 2020)
With Walker, his former teammate, elected last year, the road to Cooperstown became at least somewhat more clear for denizens of Coors Field, or at least this one. An exceptional hitter who served as the face of the Rockies’ franchise, Helton put up very big numbers in the first half of his career, numbers that hold up once we adjust for his park and league scoring environment. Injuries caused him to fade away, as he had just one good season out of his last four, but it’s not out of the question that his time at altitude had something to do with that. His peak score ranks 10th among first basemen, about four wins above the standard, and his JAWS is less than a point below it. After polling at 16.5% in his first year of eligibility, he gained substantial ground last year, and is at 49.3% thus far in the Tracker.

Billy Wagner (tied for 19th among relievers in JAWS, 31.7% in 2020)
The holder of the all-time records for strikeout rate and opponent batting average, albeit at just an 800-inning threshold, Wagner is short of the admittedly slapdash standard established by the eight enshrined relievers. Since I’ve never been entirely satisfied with how JAWS handles that small group, I’ve sought alternate ways to evaluate relievers by incorporating Win Probability Added (WPA) and situational or context-neutral wins (WPA/LI), both of which paint Wagner (and before him, Trevor Hoffman, who is tied with Wagner in JAWS) in a better light than WAR. When I combine those with career WAR, averaging the three stats, Wagner ranks sixth behind Rivera, Dennis Eckersley, Hoyt Wilhelm, Rich Gossage, and Hoffman, and ahead of Lee Smith, Bruce Sutter and Rollie Fingers — making him the best reliever outside the Hall. After his support nearly doubled from 16.7% in 2019, he’s at 43.7% so far.

Andruw Jones (11th among center fielders in JAWS, 19.4% in 2020)
If 2018 Hall of Fame honoree Chipper Jones was the Braves dynasty’s offensive cornerstone, Andruw Jones was its defensive one, an elite flychaser who won 10 Gold Gloves and ranks first at the position in fielding runs (+236). He could hit, too, bopping 434 career homers. His career collapsed at age 31, however; he played just 435 games over his final five seasons, disappearing from the majors at age 35, and so while he’s well above the peak standard, he’s short on the career one and in JAWS. I’m not so bothered by that, given his relative ranking and the fact that the standards in center and right field are a few points higher than every other position. I’ve included him in two of the three virtual ballots he’s been eligible for, and after gaining 11.9% last year, he appears poised for another significant jump, as he’s polling at 38.6% so far.

That’s six slots filled, and the only remaining candidates I’m considering are these three right fielders:

Sammy Sosa (18th among right fielders in JAWS, 13.9% in 2019)
A towering figure in baseball’s return from the strike, and just the sixth player to reach 600 home runs, he’s nonetheless below the bar in JAWS, but above 2018 honoree Vladimir Guerrero (21st at 50.3). That matters more to me than the report that he was on the supposedly anonymous 2003 survey test, which as noted above, belongs to the “Wild West” era before the game had a coherent PED policy. What’s more, commissioner Rob Manfred basically disavowed it in the context of celebrating David Ortiz, on the grounds that some disputed results were never resolved because the threshold to implement testing had been reached. That doesn’t mean Sosa was clean, but if MLB couldn’t penalize him, I’m not going to, which isn’t to say that I’m obligated to vote for him. After six straight years of single-digit vote shares, he received more support than ever in 2020, and is currently polling at 23.9%.

Bobby Abreu (20th among right fielders in JAWS, 5.5% in 2020)
A five-tool player with dazzling speed, a sweet left-handed stroke, and enough power to win a Home Run Derby, Abreu was a stathead favorite thanks to his otherworldly plate discipline. He posted on-base percentages of .400 or higher eight times (.395 for his career) thanks to his ability to take a walk (100 or more eight years in a row). Yet despite routinely reaching traditional seasonal plateaus — a .300 batting average (six times), 20 homers (nine times), 30 steals (six times), 100 runs scored and batted in (eight times apiece) — he was ridiculously underappreciated by the mainstream, making just two All-Star teams and winning one Gold Glove, and he barely scraped by in last year’s voting with 5.5%. He’s doing better so far this year (16.9%).

Gary Sheffield (23rd in JAWS, 30.5% in 2019)
There’s no denying Shef’s skill with the stick. His total of 561 batting runs above average (the offensive component of bWAR) ranks 29th all-time, while his 140 OPS+ is tied for 48th; he’s either alongside or ahead of numerous no-doubt Hall of Famers in those categories, and to that he added an aesthetic quality of sheer menace in the batter’s box thanks to his lightning-quick reflexes and violent swing. It’s his defense (-195 runs, second-lowest all time ahead of only Jeter), not his BALCO connection or his penchant for controversy — two areas that require some digging in order to get a full and fair picture — that kept me from putting too much stock in his candidacy, as it knocks him below 50 JAWS, and nearly eight points below the position standard. Yet I’m troubled by the extent to which those outlying defensive stats, which are largely estimates from the pre-batted-ball-type era, nuke Sheffield’s value, and that goes double when they’re compared to his defensive numbers via alternative methodologies. What’s more, it’s worth noting that 65% of his plate appearances came in the NL, where he didn’t have the chance to serve as a DH. Last year, I found room for him on my virtual ballot, and so did many actual voters, as he gained nearly 18 percentage points.

Collectively this trio went 1-for-15 on my virtual ballots, largely but not entirely due to crowds on the ballot. The lone vote went to the lowest-ranked player in terms of JAWS, though Sheffield is by far the best of the three offensively in terms of both OPS+ (Abreu and Sosa finished at 128) and batting runs (both are over 200 behind Sheffield). In terms of OPS+, he’s right on par with the two right fielders elected in recent years, Guerrero (140) and Walker (141) — but he maintained that clip over nearly 2,000 more PA than the former and nearly 3,000 PA more than the latter, so he’s over 100 batting runs ahead of each. I’m more comfortable voting for Sheffield at this point than I am Abreu or Sosa, but each of the trio has his merits.

There’s no perfect answer, but in a year where I have the room on my ballot to do so, I’ve decided to include all three. That brings me to nine slots plus a very conspicuous vacancy for the 10th. This is the first time since I began this exercise in 2013 that I’ve used fewer than 10 slots, but probably not the last.

While I wish this year’s election cycle could offer a consensus candidate who wasn’t polarizing, I’m not about to let the lack of one detract from the bigger picture. I’m gratified that after doing this for so long on the outside, I finally get to cast a ballot. Mind you, mine is just one vote among a group of about 400, and I know going in that it’s less impactful than the work I’ve done over the years that has swayed actual voters and has helped the likes of Raines, Walker, Martinez, Mike Mussina and others find homes in Cooperstown. Even so, it’s also symbolic.

In casting this ballot, I’m standing on the shoulders of giants in the field of baseball analysis, people who entered this industry without going through the traditional newspaper outlets and who either were never admitted to the BBWAA or for one reason or another didn’t last long enough within it to get a chance to vote. People such as John Thorn, Bill James, Rob Neyer, Joe Sheehan, and Steven Goldman were among those who opened my eyes to different ways of viewing baseball decades ago, and their thoughts on the Hall of Fame and its processes inevitably seeped into my own views of the institution and who’s worthy of admission. Which isn’t to say that all of my influences and mentors were weeded out along the way; Christina Kahrl, trailblazer that she is — and not just in the encouragement of self-consciously named acronyms — got her ballot two years ago, making her the only one of the five Baseball Prospectus founders to do so. That boggles my mind.

Anyway, it’s with gratitude to the people above, as well as to too many others to name — though I should also single out past BBWAA presidents La Velle E. Neal III, Jose de Jesus Ortiz, Susan Slusser, and Derrick Goold, all of whom helped me and my Hall expertise find a place within the organization after lobbing so many indelicate critiques from the outside — that I cast this ballot. It’s hardly perfect, but its arrival has served me as a light at the end of the tunnel of a difficult and often miserable year, and I’m glad I made it this far.





Brooklyn-based Jay Jaffe is a senior writer for FanGraphs, the author of The Cooperstown Casebook (Thomas Dunne Books, 2017) and the creator of the JAWS (Jaffe WAR Score) metric for Hall of Fame analysis. He founded the Futility Infielder website (2001), was a columnist for Baseball Prospectus (2005-2012) and a contributing writer for Sports Illustrated (2012-2018). He has been a recurring guest on MLB Network and a member of the BBWAA since 2011, and a Hall of Fame voter since 2021. Follow him on BlueSky @jayjaffe.bsky.social.

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scotth855Member since 2020
5 years ago

Great ballot, Jay.

drewsylvaniaMember since 2019
5 years ago

Cue ten posts misunderstanding Jay’s position on Schilling…

OddBall Herrera
5 years ago
Reply to  drewsylvania

What’s to misunderstand about it? It’s a short sighted, highly problematic position, unless you’re really ready for the double whammy of relitigating existing HOFers personal characteristics, and also making any and all public statements fair game for disqualification. By doing this you put yourself in the position where you’re either a hypocrite or you have to advocate for a HOF purge, because we’ve got domestic abusers, avowed racists, cheaters, etc. in there (read: people who did more than hurt feelings on Twitter). And then you have to deal with the fact that you’re almost certainly not going to be so open minded if a voter, following your example, refuses to vote for a player for strongly supporting abortion rights. I assure you, some feel more strongly about that than you do Schilling’s tweets!

Sure, it’s his ballot, and if a protest abstention on someone who clearly merits enshrinement on baseball achievement (celebrating which, one might say, is the whole point of the hall of fame) makes him sleep well at night, fine. I won’t shed a tear for Schilling, because he’s an ignorant twit. Hopefully though, as he said, Schilling is destined for the HoF with his imprimatur or not, because the minute the hall has massive gaps between its representation of the game and the public’s experience of it, it ceases to be relevant (this is also part of my argument for Clemens/Bonds). And also because I for one don’t believe we should strive towards a world whitewashed of everything we find distasteful, nor one where our personal reactions are the measure of all things.

OddBall Herrera
5 years ago

I should point out, I did notice that Mr Jaffe acknowledged the issue of past players in the HoF. However, this seems to be more of a post hoc rationalization, “I wanted to find a reason, and this is what I came up with”, than a true distinction. No one views Schilling as a thought leader, or at least anyone with discerning mental capacity, and his ‘larger platform’ upon enshrinement isn’t going to change that.

EonADSMember since 2024
5 years ago

Really? Because I’m sure that “no one views [Person] as a thought leader or at least anyone with discerning mental capacity” is exactly what a lot of people thought about Donald Trump prior to his election as POTUS. People are far more easily misled than we have ever allowed ourselves to believe.

While yes, there is a degree of hypocrisy in keeping Schilling out of the Hall, there’s also ample reason to do it. Simply weighing that reason or your own form of morality as greater than the potential for hypocrisy isn’t some horrifying crisis of morality, it’s just honesty. It’s something that people do literally all the time.

OddBall Herrera
5 years ago
Reply to  EonADS

I see where you are coming from, but I respectfully disagree. I simply believe in the value of objective standards, and that aspiring to systems that produce objective results has societal value, otherwise you simply create institutions that cater towards the most or the loudest, or you create a society of fragmented institutions that don’t speak to anyone but those of like mind. No one wants to go to the Hall of Famous and Socially Acceptable Baseball Players, they want to see the people who made the game great.

Now, I could see an argument that Schilling is so generationally and objectively obnoxious that this isn’t a subjective issue, so it’s a one off and not a precedent setter. Sure. But I have a distinct lack of trust that well intentioned exceptions will be let lie by the less scrupulous or more ideological.

I am probably guilty of making this about something other than baseball at this point though, so I will leave it there!

Jim ParksMember since 2019
5 years ago
Reply to  EonADS

It’s not honesty. It’s hypocrisy.

zwibi
5 years ago
Reply to  EonADS

Ah yes. The standard “but Trump!” rationalization.

The problem isnt keeping him out. Hes an idiot and will reap what he sows.

The problem is keeping him out while simultaneously voting for men who performed ACTUAL violence against women and ACTUAL statutory rape. The problem is this hypocrisy

When stupid memes bother you more than actual violence against women you need to wake the eff up.

Atticus123
5 years ago
Reply to  EonADS

He never justifies keeping Schilling out for his career which is why he is even in consideration. Its just a democratic activist vote like so many other sports journalists.

TKDCMember since 2016
5 years ago

Your analogy will make sense when and if a player is voted against for supporting an anti-abortion message. The thing is, you can’t come up with the “equivalent lefty position” to Schilling because his positions that are hurting him here are not really conservatives or right-leaning, they are just mean and evil. There have been plenty of very openly conservative players that have been easily enshrined. You call this short sighted, but you are the one that is refusing to open your eyes.

OddBall Herrera
5 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

“Your analogy will make sense when and if a player is voted against for supporting an anti-abortion message. ”

So the argument is that we shouldn’t discuss the implications of a practice until they are realized? This is not how good decisions are made. The point is that “mean and evil” is exactly how lots of people in this country describe a wide variety of opinions or behaviors, so using that as a standard is problematic and inevitably devolves into a question of who decides what counts as mean and evil enough.

And yes, plenty of openly conservative players have been enshrined, but I’m not sure how long I expect that to continue, because times are changing. For example, I can’t find the article anymore, but I do distinctly remember reading about how we should reevaluate Mariano Rivera’s HOF candidacy simply because of his support of Trump. 100% there are people out there who will take any opening they can to turn anything they can into a purity test, and unfortunately those peoples’ voices are only getting louder in our society.

Like I said earlier, I am not rushing to the defense of Schilling, and I’m willing to concede that ‘slippery slope’ arguments are in themselves only as good as the odds we go further down the slope, so to speak. I am simply speaking in support of the value of the objective standard.

Somewhat objective, of course, otherwise we wouldn’t go through a bickering ceremony about HoF voting every year! 🙂

Jim ParksMember since 2019
5 years ago
Reply to  drewsylvania

It’s a terrible position. Basically he is saying character matters only when I want it to matter which is illogical at best and hypocritical at worst. Curt Schilling won the Clemente, Branch Rickey, and Lou Gehrig awards during his playing career for his off field activities. Then he made a few tweets and public statements that Jay did not agree with. Jay’s justification is weak sauce, at least he does admit that.

bohknowsbmore
5 years ago
Reply to  Jim Parks

Well said, Jaffe and other FG writers are quickly turning into the “old school” writers they took issue with for basing their ballots on personal relationships with / against individual players.

TRad
5 years ago
Reply to  drewsylvania

What’s to understand?
Cheating is OK, saying things mr Jaffe doesn’t like is not OK.

docgooden85Member since 2018
5 years ago

Jay, today I learned we have the same handwriting. Thanks for your support of Andruw — for me what is the point of a HOF if it excludes the best ever defensive OF with 450 HRs to boot?

misterjohnnyMember since 2016
5 years ago

You are a petty man.

AlbyMember since 2025
5 years ago
Reply to  misterjohnny

Not me. I always rooted for the Allison brothers or Cale Yarborough.

Sleepy
5 years ago
Reply to  Alby

[audible laugh]

Greens
5 years ago
Reply to  misterjohnny

RIP tom

cowdiscipleMember since 2016
5 years ago
Reply to  misterjohnny

Ok, that’s far enough over the line to use the little flag.

docgooden85Member since 2018
5 years ago

The most fun thing about Sheffield was his incredible bat speed — while other hitters were trying to catch up to fastballs he was consistently having to slow himself down. He absolutely owned the first 15 feet of foul territory left of the 3B line with the kind of exit velocity to darken the underpants of any 3B coach. If those counted he would be Ruthian.

WARrior
5 years ago
Reply to  docgooden85

“darken the underpants”.

There’s a bright future for you in writing. Thanks for bringing a little smile to my morning.

MJA
5 years ago

You can claim you aren’t using the character clause but your explanation doesn’t really hold up outside of it. You are essentially deciding that people who beat women are acceptable to honor but not people who have bad tweets and horrendous political opinions must be barred.

BenZobrist4MVP
5 years ago
Reply to  MJA

I think he is saying that if Bonds, Clemens, Jones, etc. give a HoF speech, then that is unlikely to encourage others to commit domestic violence, while Schilling’s platform could encourage racism, violence against journalists, intolerance, etc. While one can certainly doubt the validity of either or both of those assumptions, there is a degree of logic in the line he is drawing.

MJA
5 years ago
Reply to  BenZobrist4MVP

There is but I’d argue it is very flimsy and weighs too heavy hypothetical violence compared to actual violence. We know which players on this ballot have literally committed violent acts on another and which have just posted tweets about it.

tomerafan
5 years ago
Reply to  MJA

Harbor certain thoughts but keep them silent: get a HOF vote because we’d never know.

Harbor certain thoughts and engage in social media: no HOF vote.

Physically abuse other human beings: HOF vote.

Damage the psyche of a teenage girl so much so that she ultimately takes her own life: HOF vote.

Again, Jay, I appreciate and commend your openness and transparency and respect your right to vote your ballot as you see fit… but this is really surprising.

I also find it incredibly interesting that journalists that I respect – including JayJaffe and Joe Posnanski – have reversed course on Schilling this year at a time when views on speech itself are changing in a way that I would think concern journalists. I used to think that journalists would live and die by the old Evelyn Beatrice Hall quote, “I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” To see journalists no longer uphold this line is troubling, not because I think Curt Schilling’s posts are ok but because you’re contributing to the slippery slope of judgement in an area that I used to believe was brightline. Punishing people for what they say rather than what they do has proven a very dangerous tool in many societies in the history of the world — far more dangerous than a misinformed tweet.

AlbyMember since 2025
5 years ago
Reply to  tomerafan

The problem with your line of thought is that keeping Curt Schilling out of the Hall of Fame is not “punishment” in any meaningful sense. Nobody’s considering legal punishment for him, which is all free speech covers.

Your little exercise in relative morality is just as judgmental as anything Jaffe wrote, BTW. Avail yourself of a mirror.

tomerafan
5 years ago
Reply to  Alby

I’m not in any way trying to be judgmental, of Jay or of any baseball player, and my point throughout these Hall of Fame discussions has been to state a personal preference and ideal that off-field issues should not impact Hall of Fame-worthiness precisely because I believe the only judgment involved in HOF voting should be the judgement of the player’s impact on the game itself. I hold this view precisely because I don’t believe in being judgmental of the relative moral implications of various off-field items, where the standards of morality (in absolute and relative terms) differ by individual and change over time.

Jim ParksMember since 2019
5 years ago
Reply to  Alby

The problem with your line of thought is it’s completely irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

r24j
5 years ago
Reply to  tomerafan

This is a really great comment.

quincy0191Member since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  tomerafan

This is an extremely subjective, unsubstantiated, and confused position with easy counterarguments.

Some people should be punished for what they say, and sometimes they are – shout fire in a crowded theater, see what happens – but most of those punishments shouldn’t be administered by the government. Society punishes people too, though, and while we absolutely get it wrong a lot, not doing it has led a huge segment of the population to believe that they have the right to say whatever they want free from consequence despite the consequences of their words on other people.

Your “non-judgmental” incredible interest notwithstanding, recognizing the right for someone to say something and suggesting they don’t are not at all the same thing. Jaffe and Posnanski can revise their positions on the impact of speech in the current era – and frankly would be remiss if they didn’t – without simultaneously holding there is a right to that speech. Again, there is no expectation that exercising legal rights absolves one of social repercussions, and there never has been. If anyone should know that or be up to date on it, it’s a professional writer.

tomerafan
5 years ago
Reply to  quincy0191

…recognizing the right for someone to say something and suggesting they don’t are not at all the same thing.

Where did I say – or suggest or even imply – that Jay Jaffe or Joe Posnanski don’t or shouldn’t speak their mind? I called it surprising and interesting that they changed their positions and shared why I find it troubling. I didn’t judge their position; I expressed my reaction to their position, which is quite literally one of surprise and interest.

TRad
5 years ago
Reply to  tomerafan

Why is it surprising? Mr.Jaffe and mr. Posnanski are all for politicizing sports. For them politics beat sport achievment all the time.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  MJA

Yeah.

I don’t begrudge anyone dropping Schilling, he’s an asshole, but besides clearing the low bar of “not beating up women,” he also does a TON of charity work – above and beyond the “normal” amount a pro athlete will do to burnish his brand.

Dude won the Clemente AND Gehrig awards, back in his playing days.

He’s the type of absurd, over the top, toxic asshole who’d give a stranger the shirt off his back in a blizzard.

He’s on my VB, but I entirely understand wanting to make him wait the full 10 years.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago

I’m at the point where if I were a voter, I’d be fine punting him to the Veteran’s Committee so I didn’t have to deal with it.

At that point, I don’t know if I would care. The bloody sock game was amazing but aside from that I’d just prefer not to think about him anymore.

TKDCMember since 2016
5 years ago

I’ll add, too, that I totally defend Jay’s choice but I did vote for Schilling on my VB. It’s interesting that many of the detractors here seem to claim that people like Jay are the ones guilty of browbeating and groupthink, when they are the actual guilty parties. It’s his vote and he spends more time considering it than probably 99% of the voters. And voting against Schilling for character reasons is not the popular choice here! Schilling got well over 50% of the vote last year and there are certainly more than a couple votes against him for other reasons, especially from the traditional voters: his win total, ERA, and zero Cy Young Awards, are to me stupid reasons to vote against him, but certainly not for some.

dodgerbleu
5 years ago
Reply to  BenZobrist4MVP

Violence against journalists 🙄

docgooden85Member since 2018
5 years ago
Reply to  dodgerbleu

Journalists are being murdered all over the world, kind of a big deal…whether you pay attention to it or not, it’s a problem.

EasyenoughMember since 2016
5 years ago
Reply to  dodgerbleu

Journalists are so important to American democracy that journalism itself is enshrined in the constitution. Encouraging violence against journalists is page one of the authoritarian’s playbook. Schilling normalized violence against a pillar of democracy.

JohnThackerMember since 2025
5 years ago
Reply to  BenZobrist4MVP

There is certainly a degree of logic– but it also seems to be more just a redefining of what he thinks the appropriate bounds of the character clause are, rather than “not invoking the so-called character clause.”

I think it’s a perfectly reasonable argument that this sort of character and morality is more important as a bar than others, but it seems disingenuous to pretend that it’s of an entirely different nature instead of a reapplication or retuning of the character clause.

Cube Jockey
5 years ago
Reply to  BenZobrist4MVP

This strikes me as a very odd argument. Basically, because election to the HOF gives the electee the forum for an induction speech, Schilling is not deserving. If there’s no HOF weekend and you just get a plaque in the museum, does that make a difference?

TKDCMember since 2016
5 years ago
Reply to  Cube Jockey

I have long thought that would be a good solution. Let Schilling in but don’t let him give a speech. It’s asinine to believe that he is somehow entitled to it. Free speech, even just the idea of it, outside of the First Amendment, does not require giving a hateful bigot a grand platform to express hateful bigotry (or settle scores).

Magician_531
5 years ago
Reply to  BenZobrist4MVP

The problem with this line of logic is, imho, that electing people who have committed domestic violence can increase (and there are even stats to show that things like this do in fact increase) domestic violence. It shows that we as a society accept it or at least are willing to look past it and honor people who commit it. This sends a bad message to people on the edge of darkness. And it also alienates victims and makes them feel terribly alone. Society praising abusers seriously hurts victims.

TRad
5 years ago
Reply to  MJA

Because everytinh is politics for mr Jaffe. So when a player dares to speak things which mr Jaffe abhores, he will make his revenge via ballot card. A hypocrite.

ZLSinger
5 years ago

After reading the Cooperstown Casebook, I can honestly say nobody deserves this honor more than Jay.

dukewinslowMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  ZLSinger

The way he wrote it I thought rob never had died and I missed it. Google says he’s still alive?!

timMember since 2017
5 years ago

Jay, Thanks for being so transparent and patient as you opened up our eyes to the HOF voting and player assessment. For me, your road has been educational and encouraged me to think about the sport I love differently. It is also refreshing to see, as you cast your first ballot, that personal opinion and emotion are a part of the decision making process. A sport played by frail humans should also be judged as such. Taking that away from the process makes it an exercise in numbers. And that is not why we truly love the game.

Ecofolux
5 years ago

You should remove A. Jones or Rolen and put in Schilling.

stakhanovitamix
5 years ago
Reply to  Ecofolux

Or maybe he should just vote for the people he selected himself, since he has clearly put an intense amount of intellectual and emotional energy into evaluating everyone. He’s earned the right to be a voter, and every voter gets to draw the lines where they see fit– that’s the point of elections.

AlbyMember since 2025
5 years ago
Reply to  Ecofolux

He has an open spot on his ballot. He doesn’t need to remove anyone, and your suggestions show that you’r a baseball moron.

Ecofolux
5 years ago
Reply to  Alby

I see now that he has an open spot, no need to remove anyone. But those of you questioning Schilling…..(Career) Schilling 79.8 WAR Rolen 69.9 WAR Jones 67.0 WAR Sheffield 62.1 WAR….numbers speak for themselves.

stakhanovitamix
5 years ago
Reply to  Ecofolux

If the numbers spoke for themselves, selection to the Hall wouldn’t depend on a vote. I think it’s important to have voters because they consider the unquantifiable. In the case of a guy like Schilling, they may decide that, in spite of great numbers, they don’t think he’s worthy of being rewarded or celebrated because of personal conduct concerns. There have doubtless been other cases where intangibles helped elect someone whose numbers were subpar. It’s not a perfect system, but I personally think it’s essential to have the safeguard of a collective conscience.

Ecofolux
5 years ago

Thank you for voicing your opinion in a decent manner, rather than just spamming the thumbs down button like some simp-coward. I hear what you’re saying about outside factors coming into play for HOF voters, I just think it’s far too arbitrary. I personally only care about the numbers and on-field legacy. I want Bonds, Clemens and Rose inducted as well…that’s another topic though compared to Schilling, which seems to be purely political. I appreciate your input.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  Ecofolux

Schilling’s issue isn’t about politics.

Jon Runyan was literally a GOP congressman. If he played baseball with Schilling’s numbers, he’d walk into the Hall…because he’s not an asshole.

Schilling’s getting the Dick Allen treatment because he’s an Aubrey Huff-level hateful shithead…and it’s genuinely insulting to those few remaining principled conservatives to lump them in with Schilling.

All that said…I’d absolutely put him in the Hall, and I’m a Yankees fan.

BenZobrist4MVP
5 years ago

Mariano Rivera is politically a very conservative Republican and even a Trump supporter. And he was elected unanimously. I’m pretty sure the resistance to Schilling is about more than his political persuasion.

Ecofolux
5 years ago
Reply to  BenZobrist4MVP

YES give me more thumbs downs!!!! I AM BECOMING A MARTYR!!!

MonkeyEpoxy
5 years ago
Reply to  Ecofolux

Imagine misunderstanding what a dildo is and represents and then bragging about getting hard.

That’s you.

Jim ParksMember since 2019
5 years ago

It is 100% about politics, don’t be hopelessly naive.

Jim ParksMember since 2019
5 years ago

But you are OK with wife beaters. That’s cool.

Jim ParksMember since 2019
5 years ago
Reply to  Alby

Schilling is far more qualified between the lines than either Jones or Rolen.

adambulldog
5 years ago

I agree with this ballot 100%, and in particular with your decision as regards the odious Schilling.

Psychic... Powerless...
5 years ago

Surprised your badge number is only three digits. They must recycle previously used numbers.

Psychic... Powerless...
5 years ago

Also, congrats on your first ballot! Must be incredibly gratifying.

Cave Dameron
5 years ago

Curt Schilling in schambles.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
5 years ago

Great ballot!

I kept Schilling (I’ve been scrupulously avoiding paying any attention to him this year – it’s been shitty enough without having to listen to Schilling’s blather), and didn’t include Helton, Sosa, or Abreu.

I did throw on Pettitte and Buehrle out of affection, knowing that they’re HoVG guys, though, so I can’t quibble your support of those three!

Really, really hope that Sheff doesn’t end up like Dick Allen, and the work you’ve done interrogating his BALCO involvement and his wonky defensive numbers has gone a long way towards that effort!

As always, thanks for this series, Jay!

You’re a mensch, and probably deserve a spot in the Hall yourself, someday soon.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
5 years ago

An addendum:

I wouldn’t put Sosa in the Hall, but there is absolutely no universe in which Manny Ramirez should be tracking ahead of him.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
5 years ago

If you think that Manny and his two positive tests (plus 2003) are more Hall-worthy than Sosa, don’t just downvote me – own it!

jdankoskyMember since 2017
5 years ago

Fantastic work. I wish all of those who cast these ballots “showed their work” in such a comprehensive and defendable way. Well done!

Elias AschMember since 2026
5 years ago

Congratulations on the ballot and thanks for sharing, Jay. Whether we agree or disagree on any given player matters way less than the fact that we would have a much better HoF if all voters were as thoughtful and transparent as you.

Paulll
5 years ago

“ This isn’t about his politics” after citing plenty of crazy stuff that Schilling says and that define his politic views. So yes it is about his politics. Be courageous and admit it. As a very liberal person, you can’t stand the craziness of the guy. You stand is very politic.
Beating your wife is ok for you, but parroting Trump’s hate speech is unacceptable.

AlbyMember since 2025
5 years ago
Reply to  Paulll

It’s obvious that reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit. Advocating violence isn’t a political view, it was once upon a time a crime, though in the age of Trump and stochastic terrorism people like you are just fine with it.

TRad
5 years ago
Reply to  Alby

It’s obvious that you’re just like mr.Jaffe – I don’t like XYZ view therefore I will not vote for him AND IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH POLITICS!

Hypocrisy of the highest sort.

nickolai
5 years ago

Kudos! Great rationale for your ballot selections, and while I don’t personally agree with all your choices, I appreciate the detailed thought process, explanations and transparency. I would love to see all voters disclose their ballots, if not explain their thought process like you did.

r24j
5 years ago

Jay, you’re right. It’s your ballot and your protest. You earned it. You’re a pioneer in regards to your work on the Hall of Fame. I appreciate how in-depth you’ve been and how thorough your explanation is.

But, I’m one of the people who thinks Schilling is a Hall of Famer. Ben said it in the podcast this week that “statistically, Curt Schilling is a Hall of Famer.” Yes, he’s a Nazi. Yes, he’s horrible. He’s vile. I am not one who would want to see him memorialized among his peers. It’d be uncomfortable.

But, once again we’re met with the evergreen argument of what’s okay and what’s not. And on the podcast again, Ben noted that we’re “not bound by the assholes of the past.” Fair. But, Andrew Jones gets a vote? Known domestic abuser. It’s one example of two VERY different offenses, but you have taken a stand that one offense is less significant than the other because one player is louder than the other. Omar Vizquel, Barry Bonds, etc all have a history. Yes, I know you touched on this, but it just feels like a broken process.

This is what bothers me and this is why I dislike journalists getting the majority ruling on the Hall of Fame. I believe there should be very valid input, but the process is too cloudy. To me, you either put in everyone based on their statistical output or omit everyone with “character” offenses off the field (except like, murderers). There’s no structure. Everyone has an opinion and there’s no precedent on what we’re allowing into the hall and what we’re not.

I’ll never defend Curt the human. He just introduces a very unprecedented argument into the Hall of Fame, where I think people are now taking liberties to take a moral stance against one person, but not another by hand selecting what they deem to be more offensive. Again, this isn’t a personal thing. You’ve earned your vote and are partaking in a system you have no rule in designing or rolling out. But, all this proves is how flawed the system is, when it should be quite a lot simpler.

FrodoBeck
5 years ago
Reply to  r24j

This is how I feel too. It’s the baseball hall of fame. It’s about baseball. When did that turn into a decision-making framework based around a writer’s moral viewpoints? It seems like a weird exercise in dancing around tough subjects, when, you know, it could just be about baseball.

Steroid conversations? Totally fair to have, it affects the game. Otherwise? Nah. Jay’s reasoning on Schilling seems like a bit of a copout to me, but I can see why others would disagree.

r24j
5 years ago
Reply to  FrodoBeck

Yeah, there’s just no justifying one abhorrent offense over the other that doesn’t come across as hypocritical. I had the same problem with David Laurila when he discussed his ballot (I forget if he has a vote or it was just an opinion piece), which had similar issues.

Who is Jay Jaffe (you can insert ANYONE’s name here, this is not a personal slight) to decree Curt Schilling is too dangerous to memorialize but not Omar Vizquel, Roger Clemens, Andruw Jones, or Barry Bonds? Jay may not feel this way, but he’s condoning other very notable offenses because they aren’t as loud and in your face as Schilling.

The voters are put in a difficult situation inside of a broken system. However, there should be general wherewithal to take a stance or don’t. You either strictly prohibit anyone with a problematic history from your ballot, or you include everyone who statistically belongs, behavior be damned. At the very least, until there is more defined protocol, I would appreciate consistency from voters across their ballot. Otherwise, they leave themselves open to very legitimate criticism (again, partially due to the busted voting system).

EasyenoughMember since 2016
5 years ago
Reply to  r24j

Jaffe is not “decreeing,” that’s what authoritarians do. Jaffe is merely voting. And even graciously opening himself to criticism by explaining his vote. This ballot is for journalists by definition. There are other paths to induction that do not pass through journalists or this ballot. It’s just the HOF. No one is taking anything away from Schilling’s accomplishments. They happened.

r24j
5 years ago
Reply to  Easyenough

If you want to dive deep into semantics, that’s your prerogative. I will clarify.

Actions speak louder than words. He doesn’t have to say he condones domestic abuse, but his vote (actions) indicates that he’s turning a blind eye to one candidate’s personal offenses, but also openly protesting another candidate for theirs. He said that he did not consider character clause in his ballot. The ballot he submitted says otherwise. It’s not a criticism, just a matter of fact.

I’m sure that, personally, a lot of these decisions weighed on him. He said as much on Effectively Wild this week. Clearly, this isn’t a process he takes lightly. I’m sure as a journalist, it’s not easy to vote for Curt Schilling. But, the stance he took leaves himself wide open for very legitimate criticism. It is not exclusive to Jay either. And like he took the time to explain his ballot (to which I already gave him credit for), I am taking time to offer my opinion on it.

The ballot takes a stance. It says that, “I’m uncomfortable allowing Curt Schilling a platform to spread misinformation and be memorialized for his violent, Nazi rhetoric.” Totally valid! I’ve already said that celebrating Curt is uncomfortable for all of us. But, the ballot also says, “While I’m taking a moral stance on this one issue, it is okay to allow domestic abusers, drunk drivers, and those who partook in relationships with minors on my ballot because those players aren’t as loud and brash about it.” Jay doesn’t need to say it. I’m sure he doesn’t personally believe that. But, the ballot is the ballot, and that’s what it says.

My personal opinion? It’s either all or okay or it’s not. Going back to my last comment – who are we to decide what offense is crossing the line and what can we can turn a blind eye to in 2020? This voting process is broken and leaves decisions that are far too heavy in the hands of journalists who all have different opinions on the matter. There needs to be precedent. And unfortunately, Schilling presents a very unorthodox case that opens voters and the process as a whole to criticism.

Tim
5 years ago

Just want to say again how much I enjoy reading The Cooperstown Casebook. I really believe every baseball fan should have a copy, and am very disappointed that the Hall of Fame has not chosen to sell the book in the bookstore . Thank you for your tremendous work.

zekepMember since 2025
5 years ago

Re: Schilling, others – those both in and outside the HoF – whose candidacy may be affected by the “character clause”…there are MANY pro athletes (especially the best ones) who are “bad” people. It comes with the territory of spending your formative years obsessed with winning every day of their lives. Most fans – and writers – don’t have to engage in that level of hyper-competition just to keep their jobs and validate their worth to themselves and others. Just recognize the greatness on the field and appreciate the often superhuman lengths they went to in order to achieve it.

olethrosMember since 2020
5 years ago

I got curious and it’s a very slow week at work so between 1936 and 2012 (the last year in which none of the top ten players are still on the ballot), the average number of players in the top ten eventually elected is 8.4. The fewest in any year was 4, in 1988. The players who didn’t make it are: Hank Gowdy, Johnny Vandermeer, Marty Marion, Allie Reynolds, Gil Hodges, Phil Cavarretta, Maury WIlls, Tony Oliva, Roger Maris, Harvey Kuenn, Lew Burdette, Mickey Lolich, Luis Tiant, Jim Kaat, Ken Boyer, Steve Garvey, Dick Allen, Tommy John, Dave Parker, Dale Murphy, Don Mattingly, Mark McGwire, and Fred McGriff. I’d wager that everyone reading this is at least marginally familiar with all but two or three of those players and at least four of them probably deserve plaques.

Hell, from 2013 to today, and assuming no one is elected this cycle, the average is still 5.25, with 2019 onward being the only years with 5 or fewer inductees from the top ten vote getters, and every player who was in the top ten since then is still on the ballot.

1955 is the first year for which one of the top ten was not eventually enshrined, it was not until 1968 that two missed out, 1971 was the first year with only 7/10 eventually inducted, 1986 was the first year with only 6, 1987 was the first year with 5, and the above mentioned 1988 was the only year with merely 4. I’m pretty sure that mid-80s lull was primarily the result of a host of players who had previously fallen below 5% being added back to the ballot

From this I conclude that pretty much any given HoF ballot will have a minimum of 5 qualified candidates, and that it is far more likely that there will be 7-10. At least until the BBWAA alters its voting procedures to include a minimum as well as a maximum or eliminates quantity requirements entirely in favor of a simple yes/no option for each player.

szsteinMember since 2019
5 years ago

You say “This isn’t about (Schilling’s) politics”, but it’s about all the gross things he has said and done. I fail to see the distinction – that *is* his politics. And there’s nothing wrong about you wanting to deny him a bigger platform to spread his hateful craziness.

Eephus PitchMember since 2016
5 years ago

I guess Shakespeare doesn’t qualify for the literary HoF, since he once wrote “Kill all the lawyers.” #CancelShakespeare

Tanned Tom
5 years ago

I have no problem with keeping scumbags out of the HOF. And let’s be real, if they keep Pete Rose out for being a jerk, then there is no way you should make allowances for Clemens and Bonds. Schilling is in his own league of assholery, and for many people just the thought of what his HOF speech would be like is enough to vote no.

olethrosMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  Tanned Tom

Rose is not out for “being a jerk.” Rose is out because he is literally banned from baseball for breaking the one and only sacred rule of the entire history of the game, and he knew good and goddamn well what the consequences were both when he broke that rule hundreds of times over more than a decade and when he partially admitted to his wrongdoing and accepted his ban.

MikeD
5 years ago
Reply to  olethros

The reason Rose is not in the HOF is in some ways a valid supporting argument for the election of suspected PED-enhanced players such as Bonds and Clemens to the HOF. Rose is not in the HOF because he’s on MLB’s ineligible list. MLB has made it clear Rose should not be elected to the HOF by making sure his name doesn’t even appear on the ballot. Bonds and Clemens are not on the ineligible list. They are up for vote and should be judged based on what they did on the playing field.

tpre8328
5 years ago

To say “well, it’s not a great rationalization, but it’s the best I’ve got at the moment” in regards to not voting for Schilling seems to translate as “I can’t justify it, but I do find mean tweets to be worse than wife-beating, pedophilia, and endangering the lives of everyone by drunk driving.” It’s certainly your right to hold the opinion that rhetorical violence is worse than actual violence and withhold a vote for Schilling accordingly. But it would come across as much more honest if you just said you don’t like his brand of politics and that, for you, that trumps everything else.

Bob DavisonMember since 2020
5 years ago

Next stop….the Football Hall of Fame?????

DannyMember since 2016
5 years ago

Jay, I simply cannot get past your Schilling logic – not because I disagree, but because you have twisted yourself into a pretzel to justify something you want to do in opposition to your longtime stance.

Either the character clause is meaningless because it can be (and has been) so arbitrarily applied OR it applies in this case and not in others (because he’s inciting violence in your view and that creates a special danger). I think you have to choose one – those are not compatible statements. Schilling’s particular conduct is irrelevant if the character clause is not invoked… it’s only worth writing about and parsing if you’re going to make it an issue for election.

Granted – I do disagree with your view. In general, I think society has gone a loooooong way towards turning words into actions (or in some case, the lack of action – I find “silence as violence” to be entirely illiberal and un-American as an idea) based on the preferences of the hearer. I think this to be absurd, dangerous, and unworkable, but I can respect your disagreement in what is a matter of opinion and values.

What I can’t respect – particularly because you are an excellent thinker and someone who clearly cares and thinks deeply about this process – is you throwing your hands up and saying, in effect, “eh, I’m done thinking about it, it’s my protest, and uh, I’m not using the character clause, I swear.” That’s not like you, and I think it’s a substantially bigger problem with your ballot than us just disagreeing on the content, which as you say, is what makes the process fun. If someone else seemed to be torturing their process to arrive at a result, this community would rightfully skewer them, and you’d write a cutting post about it. I love your work in general, but I don’t think you’re holding yourself to the same standard.

bohknowsbmore
5 years ago
Reply to  Danny

Fully agree with your final sentence. In some ways I think the FG staff and community has become exactly everything they’ve mocked “old school” writers for in the pat.

Richard L. Giovanoni
5 years ago

Using Statheads’ Player Batting Comparison (if that is not anathema on this site), Sammy Sosa was only .500 162WL% in his first five years. Comparing him to Bobby Abreu (.524) Manny Ramirez (.508), Gary Sheffield (.507), Jeff Kent (.503) and Torii Hunter (.503) – only Hunter at 87 had a worse OPS+ than Sosa’s 94 in their first five years in the MLB. Plus Sosa was the worst in clutch hitting at <2.7 and in ProdOut at 26.1%.

So suspected steroid use certainly helped Sosa the most – unless he was just a late-bloomer.

Schwartz
5 years ago

It’s funny how commenters are all “you don’t like CS’s politics and that’s why you’re not voting for him”, etc, etc, when most MLB players are conservative/Republican and not shy about it (see Mariano Rivera, etc).

The challenge here is to make it clear that his behavior is beyond politics and beyond the character clause. He’s in a class all by himself, because of his hate. He has so much hate to give, and doesn’t care who dies along the way.

He’s not a horrible Republican, he’s a horrible -person-. And there has to be a line in the sand on people like him. You’ve drawn the line well, but it’s going to take people a while to understand how this works. Change is hard, right?

Speaking of change, there is a valid argument that players accused of spousal abuse and other crimes might need to be disqualified from the HoF as well. That’s something I urge you to consider going forward.

r24j
5 years ago
Reply to  Schwartz

Your last paragraph summarizes my issue with this ballot. I feel like most people with common sense know this isn’t an anti-Republican argument about Schilling. I’ve been in a clubhouse setting for four years now and can count the amount of left-leaning ballplayers on one hand. He’s just an abhorrent and uniquely hateful individual. He doesn’t spread Republican rhetoric, he spreads Nazi rhetoric.

The problem stems from the fact that his ballot is turning a blind eye to those other issues, such as spousal abuse. To me, you can’t take the moral high ground on one case, but ignore the others. It needs to be consistent across the board, and like you, I hope Jay takes more of a consistent stance in future years.

Old Washington Senators FanMember since 2020
5 years ago

I really enjoy FanGraphs because it is normally an oasis from the acidity and absurdity of American social media and comment forums (sic).

However, the thread here has descended to that toxic level. I’m going to avoid reading Hall of Fame ballot articles in the future.

If the tone of this thread infects other articles on this site, I’m out.

Now, considering not renewing my membership in 2021.

olethrosMember since 2020
5 years ago

People like you are 100% responsible for the “tone of this thread” so the door’s that way, go ahead and let it smack you in the ass on your way out.

MikeD
5 years ago

I don’t view this thread as particularly toxic, especially considering the toxic personality being discussed. Oh, there’s exceptions littered throughout the thread, but most commenters are noting why they disagree with Jay’s position here and they’re doing it respectfully, often quite thoughtfully.

BFR44Member since 2025
5 years ago

Definitely think Schilling is a scumbag, but to say that the nonvote is not due to either politics OR the morality clause? How does that make any sense? What exactly is keeping him out then?

Everyone is free to moralize however they like, but at least admit to it when you do.

Eddie McKennaMember since 2020
5 years ago

What value does domestic violence hold

scooter262
5 years ago

I could not agree more on your leaving Schilling off the ballot. I am a Red Sox fan, and loved him when he helped break the curse. However, he is an abhorrent, despicable human being, and does not deserve the honor nor the platform that admittance to the HOF would allow him. Other voters have mentioned how off field behavior should not matter. But, as you say, his behavior is far beyond the pale, and leaves the character clause in the dust.

Jim ParksMember since 2019
5 years ago
Reply to  scooter262

But you are OK with wife beaters? An actual crime a thousand times worse than anything Schilling has ever done?

stratocaster
5 years ago
Reply to  Jim Parks

Nobody is saying they’re okay with wife beaters here that I have seen, Jay included. In fact, even those I’ve seen accused and convicted don’t typically encourage the behavior. That would be admitting that you’re a monster. Like it or not, Curt Schilling has promoted violence against others when he used social media to attack journalists. Violence is wrong regardless of who it is perpetrated against.

Jim ParksMember since 2019
5 years ago
Reply to  stratocaster

If you can’t see the difference between a tweet and committing actual violence against another person that I don’t see how you can discuss this rationally. In effect Jay is saying that it doesn’t matter, you could hit a baseball well so we’ll just overlook the violence you committed against another human being. It’s completely hypocritical.

nicktown
5 years ago

median WAR seems more fair when comparing HOF players

bleh
5 years ago

Well said about Schilling. I feel exactly the same as you and it’s nice to see a HOF voter say that. Hopefully enough more voters do the right thing. Nothing personal against Schilling who I otherwise like. Just think he is deeply misguided.

Mike NMN
5 years ago

Nice piece, really well-written, logically presented, and, while I don’t agree with a few of his choices or arguments, he makes them persuasively. I’m still a hard-liner about PED use, but Jay’s construct (before or after serious MLB policy) is reasonable. Schilling….he’s persuaded me with the ended “it’s my ballot” makes sense. It is his ballot, and if all the Schilling does is just too much for him (and, it’s a lot) then don’t vote for him. No player is guaranteed admittance.

Angelsjunky
5 years ago

I don’t really get your logic re: Manny. If you’re drawing a line between 2003 and 2004, the vast bulk of his value came to the left of the line: 46.8 before, 19.5 after. Presumably he roided throughout his career, but I’m not sure this is any different than Bonds and Clemens, it is just that Manny played longer after your line and, well, got caught doing so after. But I think all three are products of the time, and shouldn’t be penalized for it. It is hard taking seriously a Hall of Fame that honors Harold Baines and Tony Perez, but not Bonds, Clemens and Manny.

As for Schilling, I’d say basing your (non) vote on politics and character is exactly what you are doing. I agree he’s a monumental douche, and I understand your hesitancy to support him in any way, but my feeling is that the voters are responsible–and only responsible–for deciding on whether a player is worthy based upon his performance in the context of baseball–and baseball only. That’s why Schilling should be in, and Rose out, no matter how “deplorable” the Bloody-Socked One is as a human being.

IMO, of course.

JohnThackerMember since 2025
5 years ago

“Note here that I’m not invoking the so-called character clause, ”

I understand and largely agree with all your reasons for excluding Schilling, but it sure seems to me like you’re invoking the character clause. How is it anything else?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  JohnThacker

This is something I am also bothered by. It’s true that the character clause has never made a lot of sense but if someone says “I’m not invoking the character clause, I am just excluding him because I think he’s a bad person” that is even weaker than the character clause. Making up a new principle that is functionally the same as the character clause but has no precedent is not exactly a good way of doing this.

And I say this as a person who is utterly disgusted by Schilling and totally supports Jay’s decision to exclude him, even if his logic makes no sense.

jimcanuck
5 years ago

I strongly disagree with Schilling’s views, and some of what he has expressed approaches or may cross the bar into hate, and much of it is certainly dangerous misinformation, but I support his right to express his views until the law says otherwise.

I respect Jay’s stance on the matter, it is not unreasonable, and he has the right to cast a ballot as he sees fit. The problem with his basis for excluding Schilling is the silencing effect. Not voting for Schilling on this basis curtails free speech expression. And it will apply both ways. A baseball player expressing support for the green new deal and universal health care should not be punished by a HOF voter with opposing views. Likewise for Schilling’s expressing views on the opposite end of the spectrum including ‘assholery’ views.

If one wants a free society with full freedom of expression, the HOF vote should necessarily be based on baseball performance only, adjusted for cheating.

cowdiscipleMember since 2016
5 years ago
Reply to  jimcanuck

I don’t entirely disagree, but the Green New Deal and universal health care are not reasonable equivalents to Schilling’s views.

I am in fact struggling to come up with any, and the ones that occur are not appropriate even as hypothetical examples.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  cowdisciple

There is virtually no equivalent to Schilling’s views on the left in United States politics. You have to go to actual communist parties in other countries to get there, although about a third go much worse than Schilling (the “re-education camps”) and about another third aren’t as bad as Schilling (the ones that are actually democratic socialists but haven’t changed their names, like the big communist party in France).

jimcanuck
5 years ago
Reply to  cowdisciple

Not intended to be reasonable equivalents. I am talking about the chilling effect, where potential HOF’er baseball players do not express their views to avoid a potential voter backlash in the future. Even comments in support of transgender could get a backlash from very conservative HOF voters in the future.

Josh78
5 years ago

Better than 90 percent of the other ballots I’ve seen this year but still I would have expected better from Jaffe.

Fredchuckdave
5 years ago

Didn’t notice the public ballot check mark thing before, interesting that it’s right there on the ballot.

marchandman34Member since 2020
5 years ago

“Since I’ve never been entirely satisfied with how JAWS handles that small group, I’ve sought alternate ways to evaluate relievers by incorporating Win Probability Added (WPA) and situational or context-neutral wins (WPA/LI), both of which paint Wagner (and before him, Trevor Hoffman, who is tied with Wagner in JAWS) in a better light than WAR. When I combine those with career WAR, averaging the three stats, Wagner ranks sixth behind Rivera, Dennis Eckersley, Hoyt Wilhelm, Rich Gossage, and Hoffman, and ahead of Lee Smith, Bruce Sutter and Rollie Fingers — making him the best reliever outside the Hall.”

Relief pitching is extremely valuable, a good point on where Wagner ranks vis a vis others, but should Hoffman, Smith, Sutter, and Fingers even be in the hall?

Looking at Baseball-Reference as it’s the basis of JAWS, WAR/WAA/WPA/Playoff WPA

Pettitte, Hudson, Wagner:
AP: 60.2/27.2/24.2/3.51
TH: 58.1/29.3/29.8/0.53
BW: 27.7/19.7/29.1/-.87

Wagner competes in WPA, but he’s dwarfed otherwise.

For the readers, would you take Pettitte/Hudson at 9/10 and drop Wagner?

Sosa was so woeful in late game hitting that I’d bump him along with Wagner for Pettitte/Hudson.

BUT, Jay, excellent ballot, your series is a joy ever year, happy holidays!

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  marchandman34

I put both Pettitte and Wagner on my VB, but Wagner is clearly ahead of him.

Wagner is one of the greatest, most dominant relievers in history.

Pettitte was a very good pitcher for a long time, whom I’m only voting for out of personal affection.

marchandman34Member since 2020
5 years ago

Thanks for the response Cool, what’s your bullet point for Wagner > Pettitte/Hudson?

Agree that Wagner was awesome, but I’ll take the guys with 2x the wins above replacement and roughly equal WPA totals.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  marchandman34

Honestly, it’s Dan Shaugnessy’s “Most feared” argument – Wagner’s probably the best, most dominant, non-Mo reliever of this century.

Pettitte and Hudson were good #2 starters who played for a long, long time.

avega1988
5 years ago

Keeping Schilling out, while allowing domestic abusers and child rapists in, is blatantly political and hypocritical.

Many others on here have made that point very articulately and I won’t repeat their arguments. I am posting only since I wanted to be another data point for those of you (including the author) scrolling through and wondering what readers think.

sterling62Member since 2020
5 years ago

Jay is extremely knowledgeable on this topic, and the system is set up to allow him to vote as he sees fit. And I appreciate his transparency in disclosing his ballot and explaining his thought process.
However, Jay should just admit he is using the character clause to exclude Schilling from his ballot. His twisted logic is just dishonest to himself and the readers.
Amazingly, Jay does not invoke the character clause for players like Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, and Sheffield who clearly cheated on the playing field. And off the field some were physically abusive, lied to Congress, and/or committed crimes of perjury and obstruction of justice. Yet he excludes Schilling for comments or tweets he made off the field on non-baseball topics.
Judging from the articles and responses, I am one of the very few conservatives that participates on this website. I don’t approve of some of Schilling’s comments, but many are made in jest and others are based on his political views. One of the things that makes sports great, is that people from all backgrounds and ideologies can enjoy the competition, escape from everyday life, and watch the beautiful game played by spectacular athletes. I have been to countless MLB games, and undoubtedly the vast majority of the fans are Democrat voters. But the only blue vote that mattered was the Dodger blue vote. Hopefully, in the future, Jay bases his vote on what happened on the field. But in the end it is his vote.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  sterling62

The evidence for Sheffield intentionally cheating on the playing field is a lot less than the evidence for Schilling being a hateful shitbag.

…and I’d put Schilling in the Hall, haha.

bluerum29
5 years ago
Reply to  sterling62

Very well said.

Estella
5 years ago

By the numbers, Schilling has 80 regular season WAR, and is maybe the greatest postseason pitcher of all time. He’s a no-doubt HOFer by any progressive metric.

And you’re not voting for him.

So you’d rather exclude players who hold different beliefs on, say, transexuals than you do, than players who literally *beat their wives.* You pretend you don’t think the character clause should exist, while holding certain people to it—and excluding others, for reasons unknown.

Name all of the players in this piece who beat a woman. And every one of them going forward. And then *please* justify your vote for them, as men who beat women, but were otherwise good enough for the Hall. I’m sure you’ll have a very, very progressive reason why they deserve enshrinement, but Schilling doesn’t.

LeschiLarryMember since 2025
5 years ago

Jay, does the BBWAA use Dominion Voting to tabulate the ballots ;>>) ?

Jim ParksMember since 2019
5 years ago

Barry Bonds: Beat his wife. That’s cool. Curt Schilling: Said stuff that bothered me. He’s out. Liberal logic at it’s finest.

Mike NMN
5 years ago

Since the comments are moving towards Jay’s observations on Schilling, let me ask Schilling defenders the question differently (and FWIW, I’d vote to put Schilling in, even though I think he’s awful): Until Mariano, we’ve never had an unanimous vote. Historically, many writers didn’t like the idea of first ballot induction, others were super small-Hall, had an ax to grind with the player or even the team. Mays was a no for 23 voters, Aaron for 9. Berra was second ballot, Koufax was left off 52 ballots. Mantle 43, Spahn 64. Is Curt Schilling, regardless of his political views, entitled to anyone’s vote? I don’t think so,

TRad
5 years ago
Reply to  Mike NMN

If you think he doesn’t belong into HoF – fine.
If you think politics are more important than sport achievement and therefore you can’t vote for him – we could have a discussion, but at least you’re honest.

But saying he’s qualified on sport base, keeping him out, and saying it’s not about politics – it’s a cowardness and hypocrisy of the worst sort.

Mike NMN
5 years ago
Reply to  TRad

I did say I’d vote for him. But I think voters are entitled to use their own criteria in selecting who to vote for. I would’t vote for a single PED user, and, yes, I know about greenies…It’s not always only about the numbers.

TRad
5 years ago
Reply to  Mike NMN

I agree voters are free to use their own criteria.

What I don’t like is a voter using criterium X and saying he didn’t use criterium X.
I hate hipocrisy.

zwibi
5 years ago
Reply to  Mike NMN

Its not even being a schilling defender. If you want to keep him out for character then do it.

But to keep him out for character issues while voting for ACTUAL domestic abusers and ACTUAL pedophiles is a joke and deserves the ridicule.

TRad
5 years ago

I will not impose my morality on players – unless I don’t like their political views.

What a hypocrite you are, mr Jaffe.

Brad Lipton
5 years ago

The tag line of the article “For Real This Time” is telling, I think, in the non-selection of Schilling.

Jay didn’t want to be lumped in with those who voted for Schilling, should he be elected.

Unfortunately, Jay used some pretzel logic to both explain why he didn’t vote for Schilling and explain why he did vote for some others. The comments in this thread have done a good job of pointing that out.

The argument against Schilling is clear: what he has said/written is beyond the pale for some and, with that, they won’t endorse him. Jay’s endorsement of some of the PED players with questionable character issues has been compartmentalized, by Jay and many others, as solely a PED issue. And Jay has made it clear where he draws the line on the PEDs. However, my expectation is that, in the future, Jay won’t endorse Schilling and won’t endorse others with questionable character issues, PEDs be damned.

Jay seems to be a man of integrity and a deep thinker. I suspect, given another year of reflection, he will remove a few more from his ballot since domestic violence (an actual act) is worse that a tweet.

MikeD
5 years ago
Reply to  Brad Lipton

Or, he may simply decide to revert to his prior position and vote for Schilling.

MorlandMember since 2020
5 years ago

The best way to deal with Schilling’s HOF candidacy is to let him die and then have the Veteran’s Committee elect him.

pntb
5 years ago

1. Historically, have voters given a boost to a player when there are no clear inductees in a given year? If so, do you think we’ll see an induction, or even bigger-than-predicted jumps for Bonds, Clemens, Rolen etc?

2. Do you think no inductees in 2021, combined with the A-Rod and Ortiz joining the ballot with Bonds/Clemens/Schilling, all with flaws (steroids, character, short career), does Rolen get enough of a boost to get in the class of 2022 as both a contrast and to avoid two consecutive empty classes?

TKDCMember since 2016
5 years ago
Reply to  pntb

This is a different animal because the people not voting for Bonds and Clemens have obviously drawn a line on Steroids (and some perhaps on other character issues). This isn’t a “take another look at their numbers” situation. You need to change the minds of these voters about a core belief, or you simply need a new set of voters. I don’t think the cleared backlog will help Bonds and Clemens as much as someone like Rolen or Andruw.

RobM
5 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

I believe so. You can see it now in the early voting. Neither Bonds nor Clemens are picking up votes from those who voted no last year. The early voters have made up their minds one way or the other. They might pick up some uplift with the latter voters who don’t reveal their ballots. They’re always the most anti-PED, but it’s also the group where there’s some room for growth, but not much. I do think they’ll be a slight uptick their last year on the ballot next year, but not enough to get them much above 65%.

zwibi
5 years ago

“Going down that particular road on a ballot that has, by my count, five players alleged to have committed domestic abuse, another player with multiple incidents involving driving under the influence of alcohol, and one with allegations of an affair with an underaged girl ”

But those distasteful tweets are just too much!!!! Also, fantastic whitewashing of pedophilia. “Affair with an underaged girl.” You must be proud of the artful nature of the way you glided past that. But hey, at least he wont be “active threats to use their platforms to promote such behavior

Saying mean things about journalists is obviously wayyyyyyyyy worse than sleeping with underaged girls

zwibi
5 years ago
Reply to  zwibi

The readers, and this author, really need to look in the mirror and reflect upon their politics. Maybe step out of your twitter bubbles for two seconds.

I get that schilling is a clown. I get that he is an idiot that has personally ruined his legacy with the stupid things that he said/did.

But if you are willing to condemn him over his politics (and distasteful memes) while ignoring ACTUAL violence against women and ACTUAL statutory rape then you need to take an effing break from twitter.

This is a disgusting rationalization.

TKDCMember since 2016
5 years ago
Reply to  zwibi

I know you are unlikely to be the type of person that cares to learn things, but “pedophilia” does not encompass all relations with underage children. It only relates to prepubescent children. Clemens alleged affair was with a post-pubescent child. Still terrible, but words matter and should be used correctly.

zwibi
5 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

Its fantastic that you felt the need to play semantics when it comes to sleeping with underage girls.

Next time Ill be sure to reference “Ephebophilia” in which 99% of people have never heard of.

TKDCMember since 2016
5 years ago
Reply to  zwibi

I was sure you would respond this way. Make an argument about semantics, then get mad when someone responds with an argument about semantics. Jay used correct words and you did not; and then you got mad about it! America in 2020, I guess.

lukelillardMember since 2024
5 years ago

Big time congrats, Jay. You’ve more than earned it.

miltonfriedman
5 years ago

Rewarding all cheaters
Rewarding a guy who would have been a 4A guy without coors

SpuriosityMember since 2025
5 years ago

I’d vote for Schilling then go to his induction ceremony and hold up a sign calling out his bullshit (assuming its safe to congregate at some point). This would let me sleep better while keeping politics and morality out of the voting equation.

miltonfriedman
5 years ago
Reply to  Spuriosity

He should pretend to be a liberal like most celebrities(while living in white gated communities, sending their kids to private schools,building walls, hiding money overseas,etc

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  miltonfriedman

Or he could just choose not to be a braying, hateful clown.

Mo Rivera is a big Trump guy, and was elected unanimously because he’s not a shithead.

CheeseballMember since 2016
5 years ago

Great article! I’m still skeptical of Wagner, but less so as time goes by.

Although Schilling is obviously a horrible right-wing troll, I can’t help but think of the analogous left-wing conspiracy theories (Mostly Bush-related). If he was calling for Trump’s entire family to be publicly executed, would you care? Not a bit.

miltonfriedman
5 years ago
Reply to  Cheeseball

I haven’t followed his opinions,but what makes him a right wing troll insteadof just right wing?

cowdiscipleMember since 2016
5 years ago
Reply to  miltonfriedman

You can find a summary in this piece and an exhaustive catalog in Jaffe’s piece on his candidacy.

miltonfriedman
5 years ago
Reply to  cowdisciple

Yeah, we know.
Wanting less immigration=racist.
Wanting free speech=racist
Wanting border=racist
Against dream act=racist
Against letting in people who believe in Sharia=racist
Listening to Joe Rogan=racist

cowdiscipleMember since 2016
5 years ago
Reply to  miltonfriedman

This kind of bad-faith question is also indicative of the presence of trolls!

free-range turducken
5 years ago

Congratulations on your first official ballot Jay, and thanks for giving a transparent breakdown of your thought process for your selections.

One minor quibble – while Paul Nehlen is unequivocally a white supremacist, Steve Bannon is merely hard-right/alt-right. Schilling has given enough ammo to earn your “protest” non-vote; association with Bannon doesn’t quite rise to the same level of offensiveness.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
5 years ago

Steve Bannon publicly called for Fauci and the head of the FBI to be executed.

He’s a fascist piece of shit, even if he tiptoes around his white nationalism in order to give himself plausible deniability.

bluerum29
5 years ago

Love that Andruw is on the ballot. Most of the rest of them are fine, I wouldn’t go Sosa, would go for Schilling. Probably Kent over Abreu.

miltonfriedman
5 years ago

I bet Jay would vote for Mccain or Obama for the HOF. They were so nice when they droned citizens and started more wars.

Atticus123
5 years ago

Sounds like a very politicized ballot position regarding schilling. None of what you stated has anything to do with his baseball career and is a narrative driven position pushed by a party platform. I hate writers who decide the hall of fame based on personal political beliefs over actual facts. You really can’t justify taking Schilling out of the hall of fame because he holds political positions different from your own. You are advocating for censorship and it just continues to show journalists like you destroy the history and meaning of what baseball and the hall of fame are truly about.

bookbookMember since 2024
5 years ago

Mosy baseball players in the hall of fame Are conservative (at least 2/3, I’d wager). Schilling is odious, and is among many rightwing influencers threatening American democracy in real time. While I don’t believe this incitement even falls under free speech (no right is absolute, regardless of intent or consequences, as I was taught in school 40 years ago.), it certainly doesn’t require one to be voted the highest honor in baseball. Schilling does not belong in the HOF until after he’s dead.

bluerum29
5 years ago
Reply to  bookbook

If he belongs in it when dead, then he belongs in it while alive. There should be no difference.

MikeD
5 years ago

Jay, congratulations on your 10-year journey to an official HOF ballot as part of your 51-year trek through the cosmos. As it relates to your ballot, your tortuous decision when it comes to all things Schilling was and is no doubt torturous to you, but I echo what others have said here, appreciating your transparency.

I suspect it’s a decision that you may look back upon and wish to reconsider. You won’t regret not voting for Schilling on a personal level, but you may want to reconsider the reasoning behind not voting for him and how that will weaken future arguments. A year back, I thought about which would be better: Schilling elected in 2020 as part of a larger group that includes Jeter, Walker, Simmons, Baines (and Miller), tainting the entire ceremony, or risk Schilling being the only inductee in 2021, granting him the entire stage to himself. I never really came up with an acceptable answer. Turns out, it may not matter. Schilling still may end up mixed in with the former group as part of a delayed 2020 ceremony combined with 2021 inductee(s), or Schilling may simply fall short as a few writers do their own reconsiderations.

What I am fine with is Schilling being elected on the merits of what he did on the baseball field, even if I hold my nose based on what I’ve read about him off the field. Not voting for him to block his platform doesn’t resonate with me. If he stands up on the stage and says horrible things, then we as a society can criticize him and talk about why his ideas are wrong. Blocking him only makes his ideas stronger. I have a classic liberal and conservative view on that. Let him speak and we will then say why he is wrong. It’s not endorsement; it’s the opposite. Further, as you and JAWS have helped the candidacy of others, you have helped the candidacy of Schilling over the years when it started out tepid. I know that because I was hesitant at first, but your writings and analysis pulled me firmly into the camp supporting Schilling for the HOF. It’s a bit disconcerting then to see you pull your support for Schilling the very year you have an official vote. One is certainly allowed to evolve and change their opinion, but it does create a bit of a sticky wicket. Even if Schilling’s case gets punted to some future version of a Veterans Committee, it will make it difficult to criticize any decision they make as you’ll have been on both sides of the issue.

The BBWAA often will claim they made the best decisions and the questionable ones come from various versions of the Veterans Committee. That is true, but that’s because the BBWAA has the easiest task, selecting from the best candidates and leaving the difficult choices to the Veterans Committee. Will they do that again here with Schilling?

I do have thoughts overall on your overall ballot, which is very good. I do have some minor areas beyond Schilling where we’re not in full agreement. I’d put them here, but the Schilling issue would overpower it, not to mention make this a very long note. It’s already a long note. Perhaps I’ll return for a separate post on the other eight candidates!

epitaz
5 years ago

I have to ask Jay, why does JAWS only take the peak 7 seasons? A player needs to play at least 10 to be eligible for the hall so why not use their 10 peak seasons? Your system seems to reward players who were good for a short peak while punishing those who were consistently very good over the course of their career. I get you’re not a fan of counting stats but when measuring a career something should be said for final totals.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  epitaz

…JAWS also uses their full career total, specifically in order to respect the importance of longevity.

Vegas Baby
5 years ago

For me, Curt Schilling is a definite YES! Great pitcher, amazing career, world series hero.

I would also vote for Binds and Clemens. As much as steroids and HGH were scandalous, these guys were the absolute best in the game. Put an asterisk… put a bunch of asterisks if you want. But YES to Binds and Clemens.

kcberger
5 years ago

Welcome to the party, pal!