Let’s Put Mike Trout in Some Other Teams’ Lineups
Last week, I had some fun putting Austin Hedges into generic NL and AL lineups. It wouldn’t have been fun for those lineups, of course: Austin Hedges is a terrible hitter! He cost lineups something like 30 runs over a full season, and that’s with him replacing the worst hitter on the team.
So while the mental gymnastics of seeing how much damage Hedges would do was fun, it was a macabre kind of amusement. Look how bad your team could be at offense without being worse at baseball overall! That doesn’t really get the people going.
With this lineup approximating tool assembled, though, there’s no reason to limit its use to Hedges. Instead, let’s put Mike Trout in some lineups — all over lineups — and see if we can create some fun statlines.
I’ll be honest, this exercise started with me wondering what the Astros would look like with Trout. So to start, I plugged Trout into the Astros’ regular lineup. Their team now looks like this:
| Batter | wRC+ |
|---|---|
| George Springer | 156 |
| Mike Trout | 180 |
| Michael Brantley | 133 |
| Alex Bregman | 168 |
| José Altuve | 138 |
| Yordan Alvarez | 178 |
| Yuli Gurriel | 132 |
| Carlos Correa | 143 |
| Robinson Chirinos | 113 |
First of all, hoo boy. That’s almost too hot to print. I wasn’t really sure where to put everybody; I briefly considered having Altuve bat seventh, and it didn’t even look all that wrong, which should tell you everything you need to know about how good the lineup is. (I left Chirinos in as the catcher because I’m using 2019 season stats for this exercise, but that hardly matters to the results.)
From there, I simulated a season for the lineup. Just for maximum shock value, I had each player play 162 nine-inning games. That’s not realistic, but we’re not going for reality here; we just moved Mike Trout to the Astros with nothing going back the other way, after all. The same goes for regressing the Astros’ stats in some weird attempt to account for sign stealing. We’re not constructing a new world here; just goofing around with some numbers.
With that out of the way, how would the team do? My initial simulation had them scoring 7.5 runs a game, so I went back and double-checked the numbers. Turns out I had a small typo; they actually project to score 7.55 runs per game. Everything about this lineup is comical. 162 games of Mike Trout, Alex Bregman, and Yordan Alvarez, performing at his 2019 level? The number eight hitter has a 143 wRC+, for goodness’ sake.
One slight caveat before we begin: because of the way I’m simulating the games, I don’t keep track of which runner is on which base, which means I don’t have run totals for individual players. Also, run-scoring double plays count for RBIs (or RsBI, if you’re one of those people, which, as a side note, I hate you). Aside from that, however, we can count everything. Take a look at Trout’s line in this hypothetical:
| Batter | AVG | OBP | SLG | 2B | HR | RBI |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Mike Trout | .291 | .438 | .645 | 37 | 62 | 143 |
Wait, uh, what? He projects to hit 62 home runs? Something must be off, right? Projections aren’t that extreme. I left out the reason for it — batting in a lineup that scores 7.5 runs a game means that you bat a lot. Trout projects for 807 plate appearances in this lineup, comfortably ahead of the 772 plate appearances the league-leading Red Sox offense had from the number two spot in the lineup. He just hit 45 home runs in 600 plate appearances — it’s not actually that surprising. We just don’t think of players getting 800 plate appearances because, well, they don’t.
In fact, a lot of Astros have absurd batting lines:
| Batter | PA | AVG | OBP | SLG | 2B | HR | RBI |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| George Springer | 825 | .292 | .383 | .591 | 30 | 58 | 138 |
| Mike Trout | 807 | .291 | .438 | .645 | 37 | 62 | 143 |
| Michael Brantley | 790 | .311 | .372 | .503 | 50 | 27 | 126 |
| Alex Bregman | 771 | .296 | .423 | .592 | 41 | 46 | 153 |
| José Altuve | 754 | .298 | .353 | .550 | 37 | 43 | 159 |
| Yordan Alvarez | 735 | .313 | .412 | .655 | 52 | 54 | 150 |
| Yuli Gurriel | 719 | .298 | .343 | .541 | 47 | 36 | 135 |
| Carlos Correa | 700 | .279 | .358 | .568 | 35 | 46 | 130 |
| Robinson Chirinos | 682 | .238 | .347 | .443 | 34 | 27 | 88 |
A hypothetical Springer/Trout/Alvarez home run chase would be a lot of fun — if the team swapped Alvarez and Brantley, Alvarez would project for 59 home runs and make it even better. It’s not clear how much fun a team scoring this much would actually be, though; there would be a lot of blowouts, and while juggernauts are a blast, this one might tip over the line to parody. If you merely gave the team league average run prevention, their Pythagorean expectation would be 115 wins.
So yeah, I’m bored. No more Mike Trout in already historically great lineups that get to use their rookie superstar DH for the entire year. What about a team that, instead of maximizing Trout’s potential, spectacularly wastes it?
Step one: take an average NL team and replace their number two hitter with Mike Trout. That’s an excellent offense; adding Trout moves their runs per game projection from 4.75 to 5.11; nearly a six-win improvement over a 162 game season. Trout’s line on this team is fine enough:
| Batter | PA | AVG | OBP | SLG | 2B | HR | RBI |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Mike Trout | 750 | .291 | .438 | .645 | 34 | 57 | 120 |
But that’s not a misuse of Mike Trout. That’s maximizing his use within an otherwise average lineup, and that’s not particularly fun. Let’s kick it up a notch: Mike Trout spits in his manager’s coffee every morning. Or maybe he leaves dirty socks out on the clubhouse floor. Heck, maybe he’s just plain unpleasant. The manager gets back at him by dropping him to the eighth spot in the lineup.
A tenth of a run vanishes from the team’s offense, and Trout’s line gets cut down to mortal size somewhat:
| Batter | PA | AVG | OBP | SLG | 2B | HR | RBI |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Mike Trout | 644 | .291 | .438 | .645 | 29 | 49 | 116 |
Forty-nine home runs and 116 RBI out of the number eight spot in a lineup would be fun, but this is too unrealistic even for me. My model doesn’t include intentional walks, but put a pitcher behind Trout and he might average four free passes a game. Our manager might be vindictive and petty, but he’s not willing to go that far; instead, he drops Trout to ninth:
| Batter | PA | AVG | OBP | SLG | 2B | HR | RBI |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Mike Trout | 623 | .291 | .438 | .645 | 29 | 48 | 104 |
Can’t walk Trout if the pitcher has already batted! It’s so crazy, it just might work. Of course, no, it doesn’t work. It costs the team another 0.03 runs of scoring a game; they’re still above average, because 623 plate appearances of Mike Trout will help you no matter the location in the lineup, but they’ve largely wasted his talents.
Trout is reasonably location-proof. Bat him ninth in an NL lineup and he would still get his home runs, although he’s unlikely to play all 162 games; pro-rate it down to 150, and his counting stats would suffer slightly more. The floor is still high, of course — he’s Mike Trout — but getting so little out of the best player in the game is at least a fun thought exercise.
What’s that, you say? We should go from the unrealistic to the absurd? Alright, fiiiiiiiiine, let’s make an entire lineup of Trouts. Feast your eyes on this:
| Batter | PA | AVG | OBP | SLG | 2B | HR | RBI |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Mike Trout | 885 | .291 | .438 | .645 | 41 | 67 | 173 |
| Mike Trout | 867 | .291 | .438 | .645 | 40 | 66 | 176 |
| Mike Trout | 849 | .291 | .438 | .645 | 39 | 65 | 183 |
| Mike Trout | 831 | .291 | .438 | .645 | 38 | 64 | 190 |
| Mike Trout | 813 | .291 | .438 | .645 | 38 | 63 | 185 |
| Mike Trout | 795 | .291 | .438 | .645 | 36 | 61 | 177 |
| Mike Trout | 777 | .291 | .438 | .645 | 36 | 60 | 174 |
| Mike Trout | 759 | .291 | .438 | .645 | 35 | 58 | 169 |
| Mike Trout | 741 | .291 | .438 | .645 | 34 | 57 | 166 |
So many Trouts — so many Trouts — would have absurd seasons. That’s about what you would expect on a team that scores nearly 10 runs a game, but that doesn’t make it any less fun. My personal favorite is the Trout batting ninth. He gets 140 fewer plate appearances than his leadoff friend, but still hits 57 bombs and drives in 166 runs. One of the best offensive seasons of all time — and also the ninth-best line on his team.
There’s a lesson somewhere in all of this about the value of stacking. Adding one Trout to the NL lineup is worth something like 0.3 runs per game, even if you add him in the optimal spot. But adding nine Trouts — even with one of them having to bat ninth — is worth more than five runs. Even after accounting for the fact that some Trouts get to replace worse hitters, the effect is non-linear. Offensive prowess stacks together, and having one good hitter makes it more valuable to have another good hitter.
But who wants lessons? Lessons are overrated, and it’s winter break even if you are still in school. Instead, picture the all-Trout team, playing nine innings in every game for some silly reason even though they’re usually lapping the competition. Give them the 2019 Orioles pitching staff, for all it matters; they’d still be a 120-win team. If nothing else, I’d like to live in that universe just to see the MVP ballots, because surely some writer would toss José Abreu a token fifth-place vote anyway, and that would be much funnier in a literal sea of Trouts.
Ben is a writer at FanGraphs. He can be found on Bluesky @benclemens.
It’s not RBIs or RsBI, it’s simply RBI, because the plural is already contained in the acronym.
^You’re one of those people, which, as a side note, he hates
Do you pluralize laser as laser?
I agree with your goal, but that’s a false comparison. Which word in the acronym for laser are you pluralizing?
In thinking about it more, the more apt comparison is revolution per minute, which is typically pluralized as rpms. On the other hand, miles per hour isn’t mphs. So :shrug:
I mean, I believe the answer is that people still pronounce the words that mph stands for, its a short form not an acronym. The way people use RBI is like it’s a word unto itself, and laser even more so. And in conclusion, that’s the reason that if you say RsBI or, to a lesser extent, RBIs, you are maniac who should not be allowed to leave the house or go on the internet.
Wading into the most dangerous discussion: I think RBI is a bit of a corner case where it’s okay to say RBIs, because you often speak about a single RBI, like “he got an RBI on that single.” You almost never speak of mph or rpm as a singular, whereas it’s natural to think of an RBI as one unit because a lot of the time that we talk about it, it’s being used to mean run batted in. When people pluralize it, I usually don’t notice — unless it’s RsBI, which is just awful.
I have to admit that I was advocating for saying RBIs but then screwed up my comment. Oh well.
RBIs is fine for the same reason POWs (and several other English words) are fine.
Mr. [Clemens], I don’t use the word ‘[villain]’ lightly, but you are the greatest [villian] in American history.
“RBI” is the thing that we’re pluralizing, so RBIs makes sense. No need to be a pedant about this.
“No need to be a pedant about this”
Pedants don’t let pesky things like ‘need’ get in the way
Seriously. The is a site dedicated to abject baseball nerdery. Being pedantic is fundamental!
Everytime I read RsBI it comes out in a pirate voice in my head
What about a whole roster of Mike Trouts?
Mike P. Trout’s arm falls off when he’s the only remaining pitcher on his team for the final 37 games of the season.
Do the Old Hoss Radbourn
Dear God, this needs to happen!
[removed as duplicate]
There’s an important lesson here about offense overall that many people miss, which is that the value of increasing OBP isn’t linear. You gain more runs going from .360 to .400 than you do going from .320 to .360, but the difference at the single player level is hard to notice.
Where it does matter and is noticable is when the environment increases everyone’s OBP. That’s why the runs park factor at Coors is so high; the innately higher babip and more walks produces higher OBPs and exponentially more runs.
Trout batting leadoff in Coors Field has always been a fantasy of mine… definitely could go 50/50 at least once.
1. This is the dumbest thing I’ve ever seen. It’s a perfect mid-offseason article.
2. What is the winning record for a team of all Mike Trouts and all Gerrit Coles?
To the second point, I guess it depends on some of the assumptions, are we talking all Coles including the bullpen? And we’re talking Trout playing all positions I guess? I’d say they’d easily break the 116 win record, but not sure by how much since Trout would cost quite a lot behind the plate and at SS (as well as on 2nd and possibly 3rd) I reckon, and it would be hard to project how much.
Fielding stats don’t matter as much when you strike out 40% of opposing batters.
Though Trout is probably a terrible framer.
Are we assuming the Trout as is today replicated 8/9 times or a team of Trouts that began specializing at different positions in little league?
Mike Trout plays spectacular center field, but his valued is lessened because ace Mike Trout keeps striking batters out left and right, and also because the right fielder Mike Trout and left fielder Mike Trout keep getting all the hits because the catcher, Mike Trout, won’t stop calling for inside pitches.
Also need to factor in the usage rules for Coles in the bullpen.
Obligatory link to the greatest NotGraphs post of all time: https://not.fangraphs.com/dangerous-experiment-a-roster-of-25-adam-dunns/
I had never read this before, which makes me wonder: how had no one sent this to me before today?!?!?
There was a time not that long ago where half the comments on any given FanGraphs post would only make sense if you’d read that one already.
And also Dee P. Gordon’s entire account is dedicated to this.
Adam Dunn, man. Hall of Famer for me.
I’d vote Adam Dunn to the Hall Of Very Good
Dunn-Dunn-Dunn !
#KeepNotGraphs
I’m sure the value ends up being even stronger for the full Trout team in the end. Your team is listed with over 7,300 PA – last year’s leaders was Boston with 6,475 (last placed was the Padres with 6,019, to give a sense of scale). Those 800+ extra PAs would need to be pitched by someone, and those someones would probably be pitchers at the back of the bullpen there to mop up the many blowouts. That means that each Trout would probably be expected to put up even better rate stats than you have listed, which would also mean they get even more PAs, and the pitchers who throw THOSE PAs are probably even worse…
Yeah. As you said, offense stacks in a non-linear fashion.
Too much TROUT
A literal sea of Trouts? Are you trying to kill them??? They’re freshwater fish, man!!! A literal river of trouts would actually stay alive long enough to take all those PAs.
Not all fish are anadromous.
On a day when Gerrit Cole signs a historic deal i still click to read this article first… the entertainment value that is Mike Trout!
Gonna name one of my fantasy teams next year “So Many Trouts”
Pure Mike Trout porn – NSFW.
I like that cleanup Trout has the most RBIs on the team because the Trouts in front of him are so good that “batting your best hitter 4th is a bad idea because they hit too often with the bases empty” no longer holds.
Can you try Mike Trout batting in front of two Chris Davis’? 712 plate appearances and 0 AB’s could be the result!!!
That Trout team makes Hack Wilson’s RBI record of 191 even more impressive. I can’t imagine Wilson was surrounded by Trouts.
It’s funny you say that actually.
Hack Wilson had not one, but TWO “Mike Trouts” hitting in front of him. The 1930 Cubs had four (4!) players with an OBP over .400.
Cuyler had a .428 OBP & English had a .430 OBP and both hit in front of Hack Wilson, essentially, everyday of that season. Wilson had a great year, for sure, but it would be hard NOT to do well in RBIs if you had two people on base in front of you 40% of the time.
Wow, I actually didn’t know that and should have looked it up. Thanks!
Meh. A lineup of ’02 Barry Bondses would have scored 22.4 runs a game.
http://www.espn.com/mlb/columns/schwarz_alan/1436689.html
“[W]e just moved Mike Trout to the Astros with nothing going back the other way, after all.”
–my off-season nightmare for the last eight years.
They’d probably send a crate of yet undamaged garbage can lids
you can make a whole league of Mike Trouts. The irony being this would render Mike Trout league average
This got me thinking about how “synergies” factor into player stats. What would Trout’s WAR be in these various situations? And, more realistically, if he had been on a good team during his career, how would that affect his career stats, etc… ?
And, given that it is trade time, does this sort of a thing factor into contracts? Would it make sense for a good team to pay more for a player given that they’ll get more out of them?
We’re going to need to see this simulation across all 30 major league ballparks, please.
Yes. I was half expecting this to be what the article was actually about
I believe the plural form is actually Mikes Trout