Let’s Put Tarik Skubal Back on the Tigers

The Detroit Tigers are one of the hottest teams in baseball. Since the calendar flipped to August, they’ve gone 7-3, scoring more than six runs per game in the process. In a muddled American League, that puts them right in the thick of the AL Central and Wild Card races. That, in turn, means they’re back in the hunt for a World Series ring. This burst of activity has them about as likely to make the playoffs (and win a ring) as they’ve been in the last few months, in fact; they’re back above 30% to reach October after dropping as low as 18% the day they traded Tarik Skubal.
That feels weird! Less than two weeks ago, the Tigers traded their best player, perhaps the best pitcher in baseball, for three prospects. They followed that up by trading Casey Mize, who had briefly inherited the title of top Tigers pitcher. It was a classic deadline sale – not a thread-the-needle plan with some additions and some subtractions, but a declaration that the plan was to get ‘em next year, and the years after that.
Does this mean the Tigers shouldn’t have traded Skubal and Mize? I’m not here to opine on that (OK, fine I’ll opine at the end of the article, but you have to read it first). But they did make those trades, and they did go on that hot streak, so here we are. The Tigers can’t un-trade those guys. MLB doesn’t have a takebacks rule. But I can’t help but wonder how the Tigers would look if they hadn’t made any moves at the deadline, and so I decided to write about it.
The key to answering this question is to build a tool that can take hypothetical rosters (the Tigers with their two top pitchers back) and plug them into today’s actual standings and schedules. Luckily, I have one of those. I told my computer to undo the Skubal and Mize trades while leaving the rest of the deals from the deadline intact. Obviously that’s not a perfect assumption – the Dodgers probably would have landed on a separate starter if they didn’t get Skubal – but it does a good enough job for my purposes, which is to analyze how different Detroit’s path in particular would look if the team had held its course at the deadline instead of pivoting to the future.
The Tigers have backfilled their rotation thanks to some spot starts by Drew Anderson and Jackson Jobe’s return from injury. That’s meaningfully better than nothing; it’s surely part of why the Tigers made the trade in the first place. Even with two remaining starters (Jack Flaherty and Justin Verlander) on the shelf, they still have a functioning rotation. Here’s what it looks like today, with each pitcher’s rest-of-season Depth Charts projections:
| Pitcher | ROS Proj IP | ROS Proj ERA | ROS Proj WAR |
|---|---|---|---|
| Framber Valdez | 48 | 3.81 | 0.7 |
| Troy Melton | 40 | 4.13 | 0.5 |
| Keider Montero | 38 | 4.46 | 0.4 |
| Jackson Jobe | 24 | 4.76 | 0.1 |
| Drew Anderson | 28 | 4.18 | 0.4 |
Our system has that as the 19th-best rotation in baseball, though my own outlook is slightly rosier; I think that Melton and Jobe are better than their projections imply. The Tigers are in a position to compete for a playoff spot thanks to their pitching, undoubtedly so, but that’s largely because Skubal and Mize each made 16 starts and each notched ERAs around 2.75. After that, it’s been Melton and Montero picking up the slack that Valdez, Flaherty, and Verlander have left; Skubal and Mize recorded nearly as much WAR as the rest of the rotation combined before they departed.
The Detroit bullpen has been poor so far this year. How poor? Well, we give Tigers relievers credit for 1.4 WAR. Half of that comes from Anderson and Montero’s relief work, though; Montero flexed to the ‘pen when everyone was healthy, and Anderson has spent most of this year as a short-stint reliever. With those two now assuming starting responsibilities, we think the group that’s left is abysmal, a bottom-five unit. Put all of that together, and it’s no wonder that we project Detroit to allow 4.62 runs per game the rest of the way, far more than it has surrendered so far.
OK, then: Let’s bring back the two aces and shift some arms into the bullpen. I swapped in Skubal and Mize for Anderson and Jobe, then bumped those two up to priority bullpen arms to give the relief corps some extra oomph. The new rotation (same as the old, pre-trade rotation) naturally looks a lot better:
| Pitcher | ROS Proj IP | ROS Proj ERA | ROS Proj WAR |
|---|---|---|---|
| Tarik Skubal | 48 | 2.90 | 1.5 |
| Casey Mize | 40 | 3.76 | 0.7 |
| Framber Valdez | 38 | 3.81 | 0.6 |
| Troy Melton | 24 | 4.13 | 0.3 |
| Keider Montero | 28 | 4.46 | 0.3 |
The real question, though, is what that does to their Playoff Odds. We consider the true talent of the Tigers as currently constituted to be slightly worse than a .500 team. With their two best pitchers back in the fold, that true-talent winning percentage goes up 27 points, from .497 to .524. And while that doesn’t sound like a huge move, the Tigers are in the perfect position for that boost in talent to matter most. The AL Central is ripe for the taking. The top four teams are within four games of each other, and while the three clubs that Detroit is competing with all made deadline moves, none was earth-shattering.
It’s not just about a division title, either. Winning the Central comes with a decent chance of a first-round bye, because the AL West has been even worse this year. With the three best records in the American League all residing in the East, whichever team finishes best out of the other divisions is going to get a relatively easy draw considering its final record. That means that adding expected wins is about as valuable as it could get for any of the teams on the AL Central and AL West bubble; more wins doesn’t only make you more likely to win your division or the last Wild Card slot, it makes it more likely that a division title will come with a bye.
Reverting to the old rotation would make the Tigers narrow favorites to earn that bye. That’s a really big deal; winning three playoff series is a lot easier than winning four. It more or less doubles your odds of winning the World Series, because it removes a 50% chance of losing before the tournament really gets going. My model sees it this way, with or without Skubal and Mize:
| Team | E(Wins) | Playoff% | Div% | Bye% | WS% |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Current Tigers | 80.1 | 29.0% | 18.1% | 9.9% | 1.4% |
| With Skubal/Mize | 81.4 | 41.8% | 28.0% | 17.2% | 3.3% |
Like I said, that’s a big bump. Adding two percentage points to your odds of winning the World Series is no joke. Even when we projected the Tigers as clear division favorites before the season, we only gave them a 4% shot at winning it all. Why can adding just two players increase their odds by so much? It’s because they’re in the perfect spot for those wins to apply with leverage; most teams don’t hit August in a position where one win could make the difference between staying home or playing in October, or between a bye and a Wild Card round berth.
I promised that I’d answer whether the Tigers “should” have traded Skubal and Mize, and I came up with a rough framework for that assessment. I took the same tool I’m using to build hypothetical alternate lineups, rewound it to the start of the season, then figured out how much adding a win’s worth of projections at various projected records would affect World Series odds. Here’s a rough distribution of how much an extra win matters, from various starting points:
| Proj Wins | WS Odds From +1W |
|---|---|
| 78 | 0.34 |
| 82 | 0.43 |
| 86 | 0.55 |
| 90 | 0.49 |
| 94 | 0.36 |
Next, I got even more theoretical. I took some distributional studies that got left on the cutting room floor when I updated prospect valuations and worked out, more or less, the odds that prospects of the caliber traded for Skubal and Mize would turn into average regulars or better, plus the average WAR per year delivered in those outcomes. I also looked at the last six years of Tigers teams to figure out how many extra wins adding players like that to replace weak links would be worth (limiting those weak links to the rotation and the outfield, to match the prospects). I worked out that the guys traded to the Tigers project to boost their average projected wins by around 1.2 per year.
At this point, I’ll stop and point out that I’m doing a lot of approximating, so the error bars are large here. But with that caveat, we can do the math. Say that the Tigers bounce around between 78 and 90 projected wins for the next six years, and take the average of those World Series-odds-per-win sensitivities. Multiply that by the 1.2 wins per year I think the extra prospects are “worth.” Multiply that by six years of team control. You get an added 3.3 percentage points of World Series odds, comfortably more than the boost they’d receive from having Skubal and Mize the rest of the way this year. That might understate it, too. If the Tigers didn’t sell, they likely would have bought, but probably only on the margin, considering where they were in the standings and their underperformance over the first four months of the season. The risk of going all-in would have been too high. While we don’t know the counterfactual there, it’s reasonable to think that it would’ve made their future teams even a little worse, for small present benefit, amplifying the effect I’ve already measured here.
That’s an unsatisfying answer for me, but that doesn’t make it less true. The Tigers stand to benefit a lot from raising their floor in future years. Even though they’re in a place of maximum leverage right now, making the playoffs is not the same as winning the World Series, and even with Skubal, Mize, and a few marginal upgrades, this year’s squad would’ve faced a huge uphill battle, likely underdogs in nearly every round of the playoffs (against various AL East squads and then the Dodgers NL champions). Getting a little better in many future years doesn’t sound as fun as being a lot better right now, but my math suggests that it’s pretty clearly the right move, even taking into account their recent performance.
I doubt the Tigers made this exact calculation when they opted to deal their two best pitchers. But I assume their motivation was at least similar in spirit. I’m all for trying to compete, and I generally dislike teams perpetually playing for the future. But this was an extreme case. The Tigers haven’t been amazing this year, Skubal and Mize were rentals, and they fetched enough return that it looks likely to change the trajectory of future teams enough to matter, given how many weak roster spots they’ve tended to carry and the competitive window they’re in. Not the most exciting conclusion, perhaps, but hopefully a salve to observers who, like me, saw the Tigers start winning and thought, “Boy, Skubal would make this team look better, huh?” They may yet go on a run. Heck, they might win it all anyway, despite making these deals. But even taking into account their winnable division, and even cheating a little and taking into account how well they’ve played after the deadline, I think they made the right decision by the numbers.
Ben is a writer at FanGraphs. He can be found on Bluesky @benclemens.
Tigers got hot after trading Skubal for a reason. It’s the same reason they got hot in 2024 after trading Flaherty to the Dodgers, when they went on a 30+ game win streak it seemed like and broke multiple 100-year-old records.
Mainstream reporters are starting to openly talk about this “phenomenon” on social media.
Clearly insinuiating something, but I’m too dense to know what. Care to explain?
I’m guessing it’s the descendant of alchemy.
I’d guess that too, but if you’re just going to wander into the comments to lob stuff like that, at least freaking own it and spell it out.
Many people are saying this.
I am pretty sure that the Patrick Ewing theory has been debunked by this point. It’s all anecdotal / coincidental, so just enjoy the ride.
Prove it
The 3rd reason on the list will blow your mind!
Except they didn’t get hot after trading Skubal. They’re 38-23 since June 1st, 3rd-most wins in baseball and 2nd-highest Win% behind BOS/CHC tied at 63%.
I wasn’t expecting the numbers to say Ryan, Smith and Hope would add 3% to future WS odds.
Even if it’s true, selling 2% WS odds now for 3% over the next 5-10 years doesn’t sound good to me. Maybe my personal hurdle rate is higher than other people’s
I mean, its like 0.5% per year. I can see it. But it’s definitely a 0.5% that’s easier to replace elsewhere than Skubal’s 1.5-2% in particular. I think I side with Ben in still preferring this trafe for the Tigers, but it’s definitely ironic that the Tigers probably did more to lower their odds at the deadline than any of the AL Central or West contenders did to raise theirs. This feels like one of those few cases where the choice to trade to avoid trading your best players within the division — or the league at all — really could ultimately matter.
One of the fortuitous parts of this trade is that the teams that the Tigers are trying to overtake aren’t in a position to trade their top prospects for a rental. Skubal is the guy you trade for to raise your WD % not your playoff %. Which is also why the risk / reward of trading Skubal was in their favor to begin with.
They might have been able to have it both ways as the comp pick for the QO to Skubal could help account for some of that future 3%, and they also surely would have made other acquisitions in upcoming offseasons to fill out the rotation and lineup as needed. All to say, I agree with you about taking the present 2% over the future 3%.
Yeah, I don’t know how I feel about just adding each year’s WS odds together. If the WS odds were strict probabilities (throw the 30 teams in a hat and pick one weighted on their odds), the math adds up. The biggest problem I think for most people is that while the math works over many iterations, there is only one iteration for reality.
Taking this to an extreme: let’s say you could somehow make a trade that would give you 49.6% WS odds next year, but guarantees 0.1% odds the subsequent four years, OR you could have 10% odds each season. Which is more valuable?
I would pick the first one because my discount rate is more than zero. My discount rate is around 20%
Definitely the first one, you have a 49.8% chance of winning at least one World Series in that scenario, compared to only 41.0% in the second.
Right, make it 15% and now we’re talking.
I’d do the second, but that’s because there is significant value to non world series winning seasons that are still competitive. I’d rather watch my team be competitive for 5 years and not win the world series all five years than win the world series one of the years and then be terrible for the next 4. And that’s with a 100% chance of winning the WS.
Probability of winning at least once in 5 years under these conditions.
Situation 1: 1 – (1-0.496)*(1-0.001)^4 = 0.50 = 50%Situation 2: 1 – (1-0.1)^5 = 0.41 = 41%So, situation 1 is the best option to win at least once.
What about a situation where it is 3% now and 1% for 5 more years, vs. 1% now and 3% for 5 more years?
Situation 1: 8%Situation 2: 15%Another math question: how many years of playoffs can we expect a team that has a 1.4% probability of winning the WS to see it win at least one WS with 90% probability? 163 years.
What if the team’s probability is 3.3%? 69 years.
Hmm, yeah, the probability of winning with 1.4% is very low. But so is 3.3%. In short, I would not view this as a big improvement. (Note: pulling a team’s name out of the hat is 3.3%.)
Final question: Is an extra win detectable, or does it fall within the spectrum of random noise?
sigma = sqrt(n*p*(1-p)) = sqrt(40*(0.5)*0.5) = 3 wins.
Hence, a single win is 1/3rd of a standard deviation, i.e., what folks here call the Z value. In short, one cannot reliably distinguish between a team winning, say, 21 of 40 games and 22 of 40.
In conclusion, I agree with Ben. DET made the correct decision. Skubal and Mize simply won’t make enough of a difference this season to bet the farm on keeping them.
The Tigers went on a run immediately after trading Skubal, but as Jason Benneti has mentioned often on the broadcast, they’re 37-23 since June 1, which is the third best record in baseball. It was going 6-22 that sunk them, and they’ve been slowly but steadily climbing their way back since.
yeah why do we estimate them as a slightly below .500 team at baseline? They had massive injury woes in May and were terrible. Since then they have played great and both their Pythagorean record and BaseRuns record imply they have been quite unlucky to be around .500 even allowing for that.
Of course this rotation would be better with Skubal and Mize in it, but we all know why they got traded. In Skubal’s case, he was never going to sign an extension in his FA year, no matter the offer.
One thing I’ll say though is that projection for Troy Melton, who has pitched like an ace all year, seems way off. He’s been killing. On the opposite side, Framber Valdez has been a rollercoaster all year, and his ERA will likely exceed those numbers.
That’s just the nature of projections, they’re not going to sharply react (rightfully so in 9 of 10 cases) to the small sample of the current season and assume what we’ve seen so far will definitely maintain.
Is this true for every team that trades away a rental? Similarly, did the Dodgers lower their WS percentage over the next 6 years by trading those guys away?
Without getting too into it, I think that the ‘replacement level’ for the Dodgers is so much higher that they did not really lower their World Series percentage by trading those guys away. They don’t need average regulars as much as the Tigers do. I approximated those percentages by looking for weak positions that could be shored up, like SP5 or a weak outfield corner. But the Dodgers’ SP5 is probably Tyler Glasnow, and their weak outfield corner is either Kyle Tucker or Teoscar Hernandez. The more relevant number for the Dodgers would be ‘odds that the player turns into a superstar’, and those are not enormous for prospects in the 50/55 FV range.
Thanks for the reply Ben. Yeah, I was thinking of the “replacement level” for this type of trade, and yeah of all teams this type of trade would hurt the Dodgers the least (in what they gave up). But now I’m wondering if it isn’t true that, by measuring 6-year World Series odds this way, more teams should trade away a star player at the deadline, even if they’re good right now, if it means they up their WS odds in the years to come.
My two cents: it’s contextual. Teams should be doing it when they’re at a low ebb of playoff contention/current true talent and holding on when they’re doing better. Like, if the Braves had Skubal this year, they wouldn’t trade him (or Sale, as their equivalent). The Tigers spot is interesting because on one hand, the heavens have opened up for them in terms of no one else in their division or the west playing well. But on the other hand, this is not the best Tigers team, or at least, our models (and most models, it seems, and gambling markets) don’t think that this is the kind of team to be levering up on. Now, how good are those projections? Who knows. But generally speaking, I feel like it’s reasonable to trade a rental star when you’re having a down year, so long as you’re getting a ton of value. But if I were a 90-95 win team, I would not be interested; I think the leverage would probably go the other way there. Rambling a bit perhaps; but I do think it’s an interesting tradeoff.
From the other side of the fence, this why I am in opposition to the Red Sox trading away some of the players who could, very well, be the core of the team for years to come for what may be a slightly longer term rental in Rutschman. It is not unreasonable to think that the 4 players the Sox sent to the Orioles may have 15-20 years of productive performance. My fandom prefers consistent competitiveness rather than going all-in.
I’d be surprised if the Red Sox weren’t consistently competitive. If that happens the PBO and GM did a terrible job.
It’s possible but highly unlikely. Each of the prospects the Red Sox gave up are high risk, and Azocar is the only one I view as having a high ceiling. Eyanson isn’t even a 50 in my estimation, much less a 55, due to a below average fastball and below average command. Even though his other pitches are great at missing bats, he’s a 45+ to me. Then it’s hard to see Witherspoon being anything more than a middle reliever, and Rivas is an interesting lottery ticket at this point.
Given how stacked the Red Sox are in the outfield and the rotation, they aren’t going to miss any of those players, while Rutschman strongly addresses the team’s biggest weakness. I’m surprised to see so much pushback against that deal from Red Sox fans because I would make that deal without any hesitation if the roles were reversed.
I’m not sure how the playoff odds were calculated but it looks like its based on team WAR and doesn’t account for changes in playoff player usage. Skubal is the biggest single advantage any team can have in the playoffs.
Worth pointing out the Tigers have actually been good since June. Since the calendar flipped away from a rancid May, they have been:
With today’s win, they are 37-23 (.610) since June 1 and have the highest pythW-L% in baseball.
It’s kinda weird more people haven’t noticed!
One: the Skubal conversation was going to dominate any actual storyline from their season.
Two: the Red Sox’ ridiculous run overshadowed them.
Three: they’re still under .500.
4) They’re 1 game out of the playoffs
Technically they are tied as I write this comment!
Yes I care a little about the Tigers rotation and the team’s chances of making the playoffs but, and this is a very big, actually a really huge but, and that is that I will be unable to watch the Field of Dreams game tonight because, except for this one event, there is absolutely nothing on Netflix that I am interested in paying a penny for. I am a strong supporter of the Boston Red Sox and have been one for over 75 years but, as of today, I will not buy another jersey, hat or any other item connected with Major League Baseball!!!!!!!
In what world does Melton only get 24 more innings? (as is shown in the takebacks). Seems like we have fixed the total number of IP for the five starters, which doesn’t seem
likely. A take back would trim Anderson and Jobes innings but would also temper the backend bullpen guys, in exchange for Skubal/Mize innings, which is the big win (ignore more dynamic issues of matching quality of arm to leverage of situation)
The Tigers will go only as far as their shaky bullpen will take them. The current hot streak is a bit of fool’s gold: lopsided victories fueled by beating up on bad teams and not having to rely on running out Kenley Jansen with a one-run lead. Detroit leads the AL in blown saves and only the Angels have a worse save percentage. The Tigers are hitting well enough right now to mask that massive flaw, and they do have home-and-homes with the weak AL Central. But Harris eventually came to the right decision: Better your chances in 2027 and beyond instead of trying to make a silk purse out of sow’s ear.
Two years in a row they haven’t adequately addressed the bullpen at the deadline.
Although moving Finnegan to a lower leverage role would be a good start now.
2 decades more like…. sincerely, Diehard Tigers fan
Where have you gone, Mike Henneman? The Motor City turns its lonely eyes to you.
The ghosts of Phil Coke, Jose Valverde & Joaquin Benoit still haunt me!
They didn’t, but, they sold. You’re not going to trade Skubal/Mize & then trade for relievers.
they DID put resources in it this winter- Signed Kenley Jansen & Finnegan. It’s just that both players have pitched poorly & then Will Vest, who had been good for 2-3 years, was terrible & is now hurt. Even Holton, who is pitching well now, was bad early in the year.
Not many teams could withstand their top 4 BP arms, all veterans who had been good for multiple years, pitch poorly & withstand it.
I do think 1-2 of Ryan/Jobe/Montero could move to a BP role in the playoffs & be effective.
“Signed Kenley Jansen & Finnegan. It’s just that both players have pitched poorly “
And that’s surprising to you? Those weren’t adequate offseason additions for a team that was supposed to be all in on winning big with the last year of Skubal and Mize.
Tigers didn’t completely waive the white flag either. Torres is still on the team. If they were going to try and thread the needle one more quality bullpen arm needed to be brought in.
Finnegan was great for them last year after being picked up at the deadline. they changed his pitch mix & it worked wonders. I don’t see how thinking it would stick was a bad move.
Jansen- I agree. He showed signs of decline with LAA last year. Though I guess they wouldn’t be the 1st team to think they could take a guy from LAA & improve him.
Of course, pretty much every FA “closer” from last offseason has been bad. I wanted them to sign Helsley or Fairbanks & they’ve been terrible, too..so have Devin Williams & Diaz.
Does moving Montero vs Jobe to the pen meaningfully change this? I can’t imagine the Tigers messing with Jobe’s development by bullpenning him
You can’t? He just came back from major surgery, I’d be surprised if they didn’t want to ease him back into things.
I think you might have underestimated prospect value in assuming the value is only when they shore up weakspots, as even if they were breakeven to a weak spot they would at least have trade value. Likewise even if they did not reach regular or above status. That said 2% now seems about a fair trade for 0.5% a year for next 6 years
River Ryan isn’t a prospect though, correct? From what I understand he’s already lost 3 years of pre-arbitration which is probably around half of his value as a prospect. That and the comp pick it’s probably a wash or loss in terms of WS% (which is kind of judging in hindsight given their post-deadline play)
He has a year of service time.
Because Ryan was in the major leagues when he blew out his elbow, his entire recovery period was on the Major League Injured List. That’s why he is only under team control for four more seasons and will be a free agent after after 2030.
I missed the part on why Tigers couldn’t go all in to win the World Series this year AND next year. Skubal now + more help later. Not to mention 2027 lockout odds
I think this is excellent analysis, but it does omit the value of winning now. If the Tigers advanced to the postseason, and maybe one a series, or maybe even win it all, that comes with increased fan interest, and revenue that will increase the World Series odds at the margins in future years because it will allow them to buy more players.
When you’re doing a self assessment whether to buy or sell at the deadline the question should always be, “what would it take for us to have a legit chance at winning the World Series?” not “what would it take to make the playoffs?”. In Detroit’s case they would have needed to buy RPs which they haven’t been willing to do (at least not quality ones at their market price). Selling was the only way to go.
I disagree. If your team regularly makes the playoffs, sure, but if you root for a team that has gone a while, then just making the third wild card is a very big deal!
Substitute Twins…. And I’m pretty sure they should have sold….
If Im booking this storyline, we get Dodgers/Tigers World Series with Skubal getting shelled in game 7 to lose it.