Lucas Giolito’s Injury Puts the Red Sox in a Bind

Kiyoshi Mio-USA TODAY Sports

Spring training is a reliably terrible time for injury news. After a whole winter of not playing (though still training, of course), ramping back up to game speed inevitably creates new injuries or aggravates old ones. This process is always worse for pitchers, because their job is inherently more injury prone. I’m not telling you anything you don’t already know in this introduction.

Here’s something you might not have known, and certainly didn’t know before this week: The Boston Red Sox look to be hit hardest by this yearly attrition. As Jeff Passan reported, Lucas Giolito is probably going to miss the entire season with an elbow injury. He has both a partially torn UCL and a flexor strain, a double whammy that almost always leads to surgery. That’s a tough injury for a team that absolutely couldn’t afford it.

Oh, sure, other teams have suffered unfortunate injuries to top starting pitchers. Justin Verlander will begin the season on the IL with shoulder soreness. Sonny Gray tweaked his hamstring and might miss Opening Day as a result. Kevin Gausman is dealing with shoulder fatigue and his timeline for returning is murky. The list goes on and on. But Giolito’s injury looks more severe and will likely require a much longer recovery time that the other ones will, and that puts Boston in a particular bind.

The Red Sox were always going to have a tough year ahead of them. With Giolito in the fold, we pegged their talent level as roughly average. But they play in the AL East, a division where average won’t cut it; we gave them only a 25% chance of reaching the playoffs, even with a full season of Giolito.

That problem was evident coming into this offseason. The Red Sox had some obvious problems in the pitching department last year. They had one of the worst rotations in baseball, certainly one of the worst among teams with postseason aspirations. Only Brayan Bello eclipsed 110 innings pitched, and his 4.24 ERA was the best among Boston’s starters with at least 10 (!) innings pitched.

The front office made a lot of changes this offseason, but Giolito was the only starter of note that the team acquired, and he wasn’t even a clean addition. He was brought in to offset the loss of Chris Sale, who was traded to Atlanta in exchange for Vaughn Grissom (currently hurt, obviously). Giolito struggled mightily last season, but he was one of the better pitchers in the game from 2019 through 2021, and the Red Sox were betting on his ability to return to form. Perhaps more importantly, though, they were banking on his health; prorate the 2020 season to 162 games, and Giolito has averaged more than 31 starts per season over the past half decade.

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No other pitcher who got anything near Giolito’s contract in free agency could boast the same combination of reliability and upside. For Boston, who have plenty of interesting pitchers but none who have handled large workloads consistently, innings were the name of the game. No Red Sox starter projected for more innings or more WAR than Giolito in 2024; their roster looked set up to use Giolito as a workhorse, hope the innings he delivered were closer in quality to the ones he threw in 2021 instead of 2023, and then fill in behind him with Bello and a rotating cast of other intriguing options.

Nick Pivetta perennially seems like he’s a few adjustments away from being excellent. Kutter Crawford improved mightily last year while making the transition to full-time starter. Tanner Houck battled injury and ineffectiveness in equal parts last year, but his slider is so good that the team keeps banking on him to figure out something to pair with it. Garrett Whitlock can start in a pinch, though I think he’s better positioned as a reliever in an ideal world.

As the number three though six options on a team, you could convince me that this foursome represents a good risk/reward proposition. I think that one of Crawford or Pivetta will look spectacular this year, and I imagine the Red Sox will get at least a good season out of the other one, Houck or Whitlock. Staple that after a healthy Giolito and Bello, and you have a competitive starting rotation – one we ranked 13th in baseball on our Depth Charts, in fact.

If you remove Giolito from the equation, though, as looks likely at this point, things get bleak in a hurry. I can buy Bello as a low-end number one starter, but asking for all four of the next options to work out seems unreasonable. Workloads will get stretched, too: With Whitlock in the rotation, he can no longer fill in as a swingman, which means more work for the likes of Chris Murphy, Brandon Walter, Cooper Criswell, and Bryan Mata, all of whom represent a huge downgrade from the top group.

Honestly, the Red Sox were already in a bit of a pitching bind even with this pre-injury construction. Pitchers get hurt; it’s an inevitability. Their roster was set up in a way that they could withstand roughly one pitcher injury without a big dropoff. That’s playing with fire in 2024, with pitcher workloads at an all-time low.

Paradoxically, I think it might be a good thing that this injury happened when it did. It’s early in March, and there are a good number of useful pitchers still available. Jordan Montgomery and Blake Snell are great, of course, and Montgomery has already been linked to the Red Sox. Adding either of those two lefties would essentially upgrade Giolito’s former spot as a rotation anchor, in addition to boosting the team’s 2025 rotation. But there are even good options behind them. Mike Clevinger and Michael Lorenzen are the kind of options that you wouldn’t want as a top starter, but would be happy to have in an emergency. Rich Hill, Zack Greinke, and Jake Odorizzi offer old-but-maybe-playable vibes. Noah Syndergaard can probably eat some innings.

If the Red Sox are serious about competing for a playoff spot this season, they’ll have to add at least one of those pitchers. The internal options just aren’t good enough to hang the team’s collective hat on. The rest of Boston’s injuries – Grissom strained his groin, Kenley Jansen’s lat has prevented him from ramping up – are garden variety spring training stuff. Those can be worked around. The only workhorse on a thin starting rotation missing the entire season? That’s not so easy to handle.

That’s the team angle on this – the Red Sox need to adapt or give up. This is far worse from Giolito’s perspective, though. Two years ago, he looked like a candidate for a big contract extension, or alternatively a marquee free agent. That didn’t quite pan out, obviously; two straight down years and a strange summer of repeated team switching meant that he hit the market as something of a reclamation project. His deal – two years and $38.5 million with an opt out – was all about rebuilding his value while providing him some financial certainty.

The good news is, that financial certainty is real. You could live comfortably for your whole life with what’s left over from that contract after taxes, without even cutting into his previous earnings. But I think this injury essentially ends Giolito’s chances at ascending to the top tier of pitchers, at least from a compensation standpoint. The next time he hits free agency, he’ll have at most one excellent year under his belt out of the last four – and that’s assuming he bounces back strongly in 2025 in his return from injury. That doesn’t sound like a pitcher teams would be tripping over themselves to sign – and that’s the best case scenario.

Well, that’s the best case scenario if Giolito needs surgery this year, at least. There’s still some chance that the early returns are incorrect and that he’s able to return for at least some of this year. I’m not sure that’s realistic, but I’m not a doctor, and we’ve certainly seen pitchers return sooner than expected from injuries, though generally not ones that involve multiple damaged elbow parts.

Unfortunately, spring and injuries will always go hand in hand. This won’t be the last article like this to get written. It probably won’t be the last one this year. Pitching is too inherently dangerous for anything else to be true. The Red Sox got hurt by it this time, and they won’t be the last team. Coming into the season with six starting options is almost never enough. It doesn’t always strike so early in the year, but it does always seem to strike. Pity the Red Sox – but, at least if you’re a rival executive, learn from them too.





Ben is a writer at FanGraphs. He can be found on Bluesky @benclemens.

113 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Devern Hansack
2 years ago

This contract was baffling from the moment it was signed and I’m floored by Boston’s lack of strategy and foresight here.

SyndergaardengnomesMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  Devern Hansack

Yeah, it seemed like a pretty large overpay on day one, and obviously it only looks worse now.

Severino and Giolito both seemed like guys who should be available on a one year, “prove it” deal, and somehow the Red Sox committed two years and nearly $40 million for Giolito…

Devern Hansack
2 years ago

Exactly – Severino, Gibson, Flaherty, Miley, Paxton, Lynn all got one year deals. Not that I’d particularly want any of the following guys, but there’s no way Lorenzen, German, Boyd, Hill, Syndergaard, or Odorizzi would command very much at this stage. If you’re signing Giolito for bulk innings, you could get one from the first bucket, one or two from the second, and likely have money left over to add elsewhere.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago

Giolito should have gotten a better deal than Severino. He was a 4-win pitcher as recently as 2021, and he was functional in 2022 and the first half of 2023. Severino was abysmal in 2023, was functional in 2022 but not great, and hurt for three years. You have to go back to 2018 to find a time when Severino was an elite pitcher.

That doesn’t mean that the Red Sox should have done this, it was kind of ridiculous to go to two years because he was unplayable in the second half of 2023. And now the Red Sox have just thrown away a lot of money, but realistically Giolito should have gotten about twice as much as Severino.

mariodegenzgz
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Severino also has much better stuff than Giolito, whose big selling point was reliability (he had barely missed a start as a big leaguer before this).

SyndergaardengnomesMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  mariodegenzgz

Yeah, we can argue who was a better bet for 2024, but the fact is, I wouldn’t have wanted to commit two years to either Severino or Giolito. Even if you do think Giolito should get twice what Severino got (which I don’t personally), the Red Sox doubled the Severino monetary commitment, and then added another $11 million on top of it.

Matt
2 years ago

The Giolito deal seemed a bit high at the time but don’t forget the team option (14mil for 2026 if under 140 innings) which has a solid chance of being picked up now.

Jason BMember since 2017
2 years ago
Reply to  Matt

Which seems odd too..

“Here’s a deal that seemed like an overpay from the outset – but now you can extend it and add another year for a guy who was not good in 2023 and then broken for all of 2024!”

As a Jays fan, I hope Boston keeps renewing and extending as long as he wants to remain in the league 😀

ChrisMember since 2017
2 years ago
Reply to  Matt

As a Sox fan I have zero faith in Giolito being worth that 2026 option price. Rosy projection for 2025 is 120 IP 4.40 ERA, if he has ANY bad luck on BABIP or similar, he’s toast IMO.

Jack CashionMember since 2019
2 years ago

This is what happens when you trade Mookie Betts

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  Jack Cashion

The Curse of the Mookie

EonADSMember since 2024
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Damn, are we going to have another Curse of the Bambino situation?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  EonADS

This is very much what it looks like but we need to consult the stars to be sure.

David McCann
2 years ago
Reply to  Jack Cashion

What do you expect from the team that traded Babe Ruth?

ChrisMember since 2017
2 years ago
Reply to  David McCann

The most WS titles in this century, that’s what. hehe

dezreMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  Chris

Sox were perennial winners prior to the Babe trade, too! Pretty funny parallels. Trading Mookie is indefensible.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  dezre

I’m…actually pretty sure they “had the most WS titles in the century” when they traded Ruth because the owner demanded they free up cash for him to invest in the rest of his portfolio.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
2 years ago

C’mon, lads!

Don’t just downvote – tell me which team had the most WS Titles the last time the Sox salary dumped the best RF in baseball.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  dezre

I do love Mookie, so I’m glad he has a ring free of Cora’s rancid, cheating stench.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago

I don’t agree that this is a case of Giolito being “reliable.” He has been healthy but he was unplayable at the end of last season. This was always an upside play, a clear gamble that they could restore him back to being a 3+ win pitcher.

This team was probably not going anywhere unless they got lucky, and it looks like they’re not getting lucky at the moment. This is a big shrug emoji to me.

Good for Giolito though, getting to rehab for a year before trying to pitch again sometime next year. That extra year is going to matter a lot to him, and the Red Sox will just have to write this one off.

Dmjn53
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I disagree with the concept of an innings eater in general, at least in cases like Giolito or previous versions of Jordan Lyles. For me I can get a bunch of ineffective innings from replacement-level minor leaguers, it’s getting 180+ effective that I’m willing to pay for

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  Dmjn53

To be fair Giolito has been way better than Jordan Lyles. The Red Sox were paying for that upside. But I also think the problem with the innings eater is that it looks silly when they blow out their arms like this. I don’t doubt Giolito had all the markers of someone who could give you innings but how much more confident should we be when every pitcher is getting hurt?

bosoxforlifeMember since 2016
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I have been a Red Sox fan longer than anyone else on this site but if the Sox trade for Jordan Lyles I am switching allegiance to the Yankees.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  bosoxforlife

Have to change your username then. Seems like a lot of work when you could just curse ownership in the comment sections.

Sandy Kazmir
2 years ago

LMAO who could have seen this coming?!?

Sandy Kazmir
2 years ago
LightenUpFGMember since 2018
2 years ago

“…struck a team that can ill afford it.”

I thought that was a pretty funny subline, because the truth of the matter is that they *can* afford it, as in, afford getting other players if they wanted to. The fact that Giolito was the one starter, and not one of a few starters, that the Sox picked up this offseason is laughable. This situation would not be so alarming if Sox management didn’t put all their cheap eggs in the Giolito basket.

Old Washington Senators FanMember since 2020
2 years ago

BoSox have to get Monty or Snell now….like ASAP.

fjtorres
2 years ago

The way they’ve been working, Clevinger is more likely.

ChrisMember since 2017
2 years ago
Reply to  fjtorres

Or Thor

MustBunique
2 years ago

Why? Gio has been a 1-1.5 WAR player each of the last two years. That isn’t hard to replace and they shouldn’t pay a lot to do so. They aren’t trying to win on the field, but want to appear to try to win, which is why they signed Gio in the first place. A guy who has done some fun things earlier in his career but is probably washed that they can parade around like weekend at bernies for the press and fans.

fjtorres
2 years ago
Reply to  MustBunique

Clevinger was at 2.2 WAR in ’23.
I would’ve thought he’d go before Giolito just on recency.

Last edited 2 years ago by fjtorres
krusty
2 years ago

This is more of a 2025 question but if Giolito has “only” a partial torn UCL, wouldn’t that make him a candidate for the new-fangled internal brace procedure instead of a full-blown TJ?

IIRC, the brace has much shorter recovery times and it seems pretty effective. For Giolito, it could be the difference between a full 2025 season with normal-ish ramp-up vs a typical TJ timeline that would probably have him back but still subject to restrictions around May-ish?

Obviously, the brace is riskier because it has a much shorter track record, but given that Giolito’s 2024 is sunk either way and he’s got a player option for next season, which makes more sense for a platform year?

hughduffy
2 years ago
Reply to  krusty

It depends on how bad the tear is. If it is a low-to-medium grade partial tear, non-operative treatment with a platelet rich plasma (PRP) injection is the most conservative treatment, and that can take 3-4 months to see if it is working.

It is possible Giolito is a candidate for an internal brace procedure. Depending upon where the tear is in his UCL, he may not qualify for the internal brace. If his UCL is in bad condition aside from the tear, traditional reconstruction surgery may be the better option.

From what I understand, Giolito is getting multiple medical opinions as to the course of action ahead, so his case is probably not so clear cut.

JimmieFoxxalorianMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  hughduffy

Giolito’s getting a 2nd opinion on Monday from the surgeon who has performed Tommy John surgeries for other Red Sox pitchers

Dmjn53
2 years ago

There’s really no such thing as a reliable starting pitcher, or an unpredictable pitching injury

The Ghost of Johnny Dickshot
2 years ago
Reply to  Dmjn53

Have you read “The Arm” by Jeff Passan? Elbows are basically hanging on by a thread from the get go, after some injuries it is an even thinner thread.

bosoxforlifeMember since 2016
2 years ago

Then how do you explain Nolan Ryan or Bob Gibson or Bob Feller or Walter Johnson or Tom Seaver or Steve Carlton or Allie Reynolds or Early Wynn or Warren Spahn or ……… My point is that it has been shown for well over 100 years that it is simply impossible to know whose arm is going to fall off and who will be able to go on and on without a problem.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  bosoxforlife

Someone recommended an amazing article written by an anonymous MLB pitcher recently. He reviews everything we know and don’t know and comes up with his own theory: Apparently he played with a guy who said on a recent scan his UCL was 50% thicker than normal. So his working theory was just that some people have thicker UCLs. I can’t speak to how accurate that is but the simplicity is appealing.

FrancoeursteinMember since 2025
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Link it

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  Francoeurstein

Just found it. But to find it I waded through a whole bunch articles that said that having a thicker UCL meant less flexibility, and that most people with thicker UCLs are those who have had TJ to begin with, so now I don’t know.

Still, it’s probably a better theory than the other ones we have come up with.
https://www.baseballprospectus.com/news/article/88274/prospectus-feature-a-pitchers-view-on-the-tommy-john-epidemic/

wily moMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

RA dickey didn’t have a UCL at all and he never had a problem. they should just have it removed

krusty
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

That makes sense.

Teams also used to intentionally select and develop starting pitchers for endurance and durability, whereas that’s just not a focus anymore.

Obviously the game has changed a ton with the focus on max effort five and dive guys, biomechanics, etc. However, I do tend to think that if a team went back to, say, 60s-80s style development, they probably really would succeed at developing some serious workhorses (think at least Roy Halladay/CC Sabathia/prime Mark Mulder-type guys just in terms of durability, not results). If one of those guys happened to have a modern elite fastball? Then they’d really have something.

They’d also probably ruin a ton of otherwise very good arms and it might not be very efficient overall, especially given how expensive prospects are nowadays.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  krusty

Mike Marshall, who was famous for pitching in a ton of games—he pitched in 106 games over 200-something innings as a reliever one year—also went and got a PhD in physiology after his career was done. He developed a whole training system that he claimed would eliminate UCL injuries. Supposedly, Kyle Boddy took a lot of inspiration from Marshall’s theories when he started with Driveline. But I’m pretty sure we could find plenty of guys who use Marshall’s methods who had TJ because everyone seems to get it now. The only way we wouldn’t is if nobody is using Marshall’s approaches.

formerly matt wMember since 2025
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Does anyone else remember the “long toss” trend? Some of its proponents seemed to suggest it was a way to build pitchers up to avoid injury, but it didn’t work out that way. One of its big advocates was Dylan Bundy… https://www.mlb.com/news/anthony-castrovince-long-toss-routines-for-pitchers-gaining-traction-across-major-league-baseball/c-42236514

sogoodlooking
2 years ago
Reply to  krusty

Teams also used to intentionally select and develop starting pitchers for endurance and durability,…

They didn’t, really. Instead they held a Platonic ideal of four starters capable of going 270 innings in 37-40 starts apiece, and blew out the arms of anyone who couldn’t keep pace.

The minors were littered with kids whose careers were wrecked by this ideal and moved on to user car lots, high school coaching, and the like. For a century teams were always decades behind what the human arm is really capable of, instead making the aim what only the freaks were able to do.

It was a lot like firing arrows at aspiring gymnasts and only continuing to develop those capable of adeptly dodging.

Of course it’s not much better, today. Different, but not much better.

Last edited 2 years ago by sogoodlooking
krusty
2 years ago
Reply to  sogoodlooking

I think we’re agreeing with each other, TBH.

You’re describing the process teams used, which I agree was pretty brutal and frankly stupid. However, it ends up selecting for “the freaks” who were able to log 270+ IP, at the expense of who knows how many otherwise good pitchers who couldn’t handle those workloads.

The human cost to that strategy is terrible and terribly high, but it *is* a strategy and it did work.

For what it’s worth, I think the current emphasis on stuff uber alles and max effort everything is really no different. It’s blowing out just as many arms and ruining just as many careers. Same altar, different deity.

Last edited 2 years ago by krusty
Lanidrac
2 years ago
Reply to  krusty

Well, except for the fact that moder medicine is now capable of fixing many of those blown out arms (and not just Tommy John Surgery) to give the guy a second (and sometimes even third) chance.

krusty
2 years ago
Reply to  Lanidrac

Actually, this makes me think:

so there’s a TJ epidemic nowadays, but that seems more fixable than the shoulder problems that don’t seem as common nowadays?

I wonder if the short leash, max effort approach might lead to more TJ, but fewer shoulder injuries (and thus, less often career threatening?)

dl80Member since 2026
2 years ago
Reply to  bosoxforlife

None of them threw 95, except Ryan. And I bet none of them were throwing max effort every pitch, including Ryan.

Lanidrac
2 years ago
Reply to  Dmjn53

Well, a few pitching injuries here and there are still unpredictable, like when he breaks his arm getting hit by a comebacker.

OTMHeartBBCMember since 2025
2 years ago

40million for maybe 40 innings pitched if they are lucky, you just hate to see it

ChrisMember since 2017
2 years ago
Reply to  OTMHeartBBC

Come Sale away with me

L. Ron Hoyabembe
2 years ago

It will be peak irony when the Red Sox sign Montgomery and get slammed for overpaying two pitchers after 18 months of being criticized for being too cheap.

Richie
2 years ago

Since when does being the very picture of ‘inning eater’ for 9 months and flat-out unplayable for multiple teams for 3 months mean that you have “upside”?? What, the worse you stink the more upside you then have?

sandwiches4everMember since 2019
2 years ago
Reply to  Richie

QFT. Dude ran off 5.2, 2.0 (60 team G), and 4.1 fWAR in consecutive years and still isn’t even 30 yet. Even in 2022, where he pitched more like a 2/3, his numbers were certainly affected by the almost comical .340 BABIP against him.

You can argue about the likelihood he finds the form again, but when you spent 3 full seasons as a mid-1 to low-2 type starter at the MLB level, there is clearly upside to be had.

The Ghost of Johnny Dickshot
2 years ago

baseball reference shows 5.5, 0.8, 4.3…other than those 2 pretty good years he’s been not good. C’mon man.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
2 years ago

The correct description of “those 2 pretty good years” is “Those two fucking great years”.

And you’re trying to support someone whining at the suggestion that he might have “upside”?

C’mon, man.

Richie
2 years ago

Cool Lester thinks Madison Bumgarner has “upside”, Ghost Johnny. Tim Lincecum, too.

Richie
2 years ago

If this now motivates the Red Sox to sign either Snell or Montogomery, it will be the most helpful injury of 2024. And still a positive if they now sign a couple of the 2nd Tier guys still available. Each of whom has more “upside” than a guy who stunk like the lower floor of an outhouse the past 3 months, and did nothing other than eat innings the 9 months prior.

its0in0the0cards
2 years ago
Reply to  Richie

Perhaps the Sox thought themselves smart waiting the market out on Montgomery, whose wife the whole league apparently knows has a residency out of Boston. Well, now he has leverage over the Red Sox, with the Cardinals as another nominal choice based upon their needs and his familiarity with the area.

All that being said, I wonder how much distance factors in with a multi-million dollar decision. How much does it cost for six months of a private plane subscription?

Lanidrac
2 years ago

The Cardinals aren’t signing Montgomery just because Gray might miss a start or two at the beginning of the season, not even if they actually had the money to do so in the first place.

Jason BMember since 2017
2 years ago

No other pitcher who got anything near Giolito’s contract in free agency could boast the same combination of reliability and upside.”

Judging by last year, I guess reliably bad is technically still reliable

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  Jason B

He was reliable within the first half and reliable within the second half, but what level of performance he was reliable for was very different.

Jason BMember since 2017
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Well that doesn’t sound very reliable at all!

CromulentMember since 2017
2 years ago
Reply to  Jason B

As Chris Berman once said, “he’s been inconsistent at times.”

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  Cromulent

Unreliably reliable

LesVegetables
2 years ago

This contract was so weird that I think the Red Sox had to have thought there might be something up with his elbow. Giolito has never thrown fewer than 140 innings in a season and yet they put that clause in there for 2025. Makes me think they thought this was a possibility. And if they truly are positioning themselves for 25/26 it would make sense.

MikeSMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  LesVegetables

It was a weird way to structure the option. Basically, if Giolito throws less than 140 IP in 2025, the Red Sox can let him go for free or keep him for $14M, over 140 IP it costs them $1.5M to let him go or $18M to keep him.

There are also escalators where he made $250K/10 IP over 140 up to 180, so the chance to earn another million dollars every year

sandwiches4everMember since 2019
2 years ago
Reply to  MikeS

I think in his case it might have been more about performance versus actual injury. Like, if you suck so bad we have to stick you in the far back of our bullpen meaning you only get to ~80-100 IP, our team option doesn’t cost as much.

hughduffy
2 years ago
Reply to  LesVegetables

Dude was going through a divorce in 2023, he and his wife announced it in July 2023. Off the field stuff impacts players a great deal more than we know.

I doubt that there was anything up with his elbow that would show up on an MRI. It’s Spring Training, pitchers ramp back up and injuries happen.

Giolito gets $18M in year one. In year two, he has a player option of $19M, with a $1M buyout, so he was guaranteed $19M. If he bounced back in 2024, he’d take his $19M and get a better contract the next year. If he didn’t, he’d take the player option in 2025. If he took the second year, the Red Sox had a third year team option at $14M, with a $1.5M buyout.

So if he didn’t perform great or got hurt in 2025, the Red Sox could exercise the team option and bring him back a little cheaper.

But if he pitched 140 or more innings in 2025, the 2026 option would become a $19 million mutual option with a $1.5 million buyout. So if Giolito performed great in 2025, he could hit the free market again.

The only way the 140 inning thing comes into play is if Giolito pitches that, and earns his way back onto the free agent market. Nothing injury related about the contract.

LesVegetables
2 years ago
Reply to  hughduffy

I think it can be both. Very possible the Sox looked at his 2023 and thought it could be a hidden injury that wasn’t showing up in any medicals. The contract he got is certainly the sort you would give to a guy that had injury concerns, it’s almost identical to the extension the Braves gave Sale, for example.

dannyrockMember since 2017
2 years ago

We probably need to stop talking about the Red Sox as if they are truly “serious about competing for a playoff spot this season” and it’s probably been true for at least a couple seasons now that they are not serious at all and are merely coasting on the brand/legacy.

L. Ron Hoyabembe
2 years ago
Reply to  dannyrock

Right, Giolito’s elbow would never have blown out if the Red Sox were serious about competing.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
2 years ago

…you seem very bad at reading.

Last edited 2 years ago by Cool Lester Smooth
Delgado4HOF
2 years ago
Reply to  dannyrock

100%. Red Sox have a worse roster than Pittsburgh. I’d bet the Buccos on the playoffs before the Sox.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  Delgado4HOF

Okay this is going too far. If you put the Red Sox in the NL Central and the Pirates in the AL East, the Red Sox would have similar playoff odds as the Brewers and the Pirates would have similar playoff odds to the White Sox. (The Pirates are better than the White Sox, maybe halfway between the Red Sox and the White Sox. But the AL East is tough)

Delgado4HOF
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Good thing that’s all hypothetical. As the MLB actually stands, and the real life situation is, I stand by my point. If you want to rearrange the standings for some fantasy scenario so be it.
As it stands:

Davis > McGuire
Tellez < Casas
Triolo > Grissom
Hayes = Devers. Devers bat but Hayes glove any day.
Cruz > Story
Reynolds > O’Nell
Suwinski > Duran
Pirates RF Platoon = Sox RF platoon (being extremely generous)
McCutchen < Yoshida
Rotations I’ll give a *slight* edge to BOS, though the pipeline is way less intriguing than PIT.
PIT bullpen >>>>>>>> Sox.
PIT Bench > Sox bench.

Simple.

Last edited 2 years ago by Delgado4HOF
L. Ron Hoyabembe
2 years ago
Reply to  Delgado4HOF

“As it stands,” Boston and Pittsburgh roughly push on projected pitching WAR, but Pittsburgh lags Boston by 5 position player WAR. So clearly they are not worse than Pittsburgh. The divisions being what they are though, you still might want to take the Pirates to make the playoffs before you take the Red Sox.

Delgado4HOF
2 years ago

They will be clearly worse than PIT come October. Both won’t sniff the playoffs, but Boston will be the worse club.

When breaking down the positions which of BOS are you taking over PIT? Maybe catcher is a toss up above. Otherwise, it’s pretty spot on.

Last edited 2 years ago by Delgado4HOF
Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  Delgado4HOF

I’ve gotta say – why are you giving the edge to Yoshida over McCutchen?

Cutch is a better hitter, and I doubt even an Achilles injury would take him to Yoshida’s basement in terms of baserunning.

Delgado4HOF
2 years ago

Honestly, I’d prefer cutch. But I thought I’d be looked at as a ‘homer’ for picking him over Yoshida. Regardless I got down votes even though I still agree with my grading. I thought I was being maybe generous with Suwinski > Duran because suwinski was extremely streaky. So I gave the benefit of the doubt to yoshida.

coolcoolcoolMember since 2026
2 years ago
Reply to  Delgado4HOF

Well you already do look like a homer saying Hayes = Devers. If we look at a few facts: Devers’s worst season in the last 3 years was 3.1 WAR. Hayes’s best season is 3.2 WAR. Devers has averaged 4 WAR over the last 5 years. Devers’s projections all come in between 3.9-4.8 WAR, while Hayes’s are between 2.2-2.9. I don’t know how you can make an argument that these two players are even close in quality.

Delgado4HOF
2 years ago
Reply to  coolcoolcool

Per your statements : ‘ignoring defense is also a very bad take’.

Devers has never posted a + dWAR in 7 years, Hayes eclipsed Devers’ dWAR in 24 games his rookie season. Devers has a career bWAR of 18.8
Hayes is bWAR of 12.6 in 3 LESS seasons. And Hayes bWAR last year was 4.0. The conversation is there, you just don’t want to have it.

Lanidrac
2 years ago
Reply to  Delgado4HOF

If O’Neill stays healthy, I’d take him over Reynolds. That’s a big “if,” though.

Delgado4HOF
2 years ago
Reply to  Lanidrac

Lol that’s an insanely bad take. But I’ll get the down votes…

O’Neill has a career .248/.318/.458 112 OPS+

Reynolds WORST season outside of 2020 was last year @
.263/.330/.460 113 OPS+.

His worst season is better than O’Neill’s whole career…

coolcoolcoolMember since 2026
2 years ago
Reply to  Delgado4HOF

Completely ignoring defense is also a very bad take

Delgado4HOF
2 years ago
Reply to  coolcoolcool

If you think O’Neill’s defense is more than important than Reynolds’ bat then so be it. You’re wrong. But so be it.

Reynolds’ career dWAR is negated from having to play CF when he shouldn’t have been. But thinking that -.6 WAR for Reynolds’ last year and -.3 for O’Neill makes O’Neill better than Reynolds overall then I can’t respect any opinion you may have on this subject. I’m not sure which world -.3 dWAR makes up for a difference in 2.2 oWAR and nearly a 20 point better OPS+.

I understand you’re probably a Boston fan, and that’s fine. But every organization would be better off with Reynolds over O’Neill, including yours.

All from baseball reference btw. Maybe not here, but as we all know WAR isn’t end all be all and is subjective by site. Reynolds is easily more valuable than O’Neill. Was last year, will be this year, and the next after that.

Last edited 2 years ago by Delgado4HOF
Delgado4HOF
2 years ago

Don’t feel bad for the Sox tbh. Sucks for Lucas though.

The Ghost of Johnny Dickshot
2 years ago

OK, look at his form in the picture at the top of the article…that is awful.

Chili Davis Eyes
2 years ago

Turns out the reason he was so bad last year is because he was pitching with his eyes closed the whole time.

beasterMember since 2018
2 years ago

Thought the exact same thing when I saw the image!

Seems like the Boston pitching coach will have an easy job correcting him. “This year lets focus on keeping your eyes open, it helps the command tremendously.”

Last edited 2 years ago by beaster
The Ghost of Johnny Dickshot
2 years ago

I was referring to his short arming the pitch. That’s a recipe for disaster. But you knew what I meant but had to be snarky.

Mario MendozaMember since 2017
2 years ago

Pretty dismissive of Houck and Whitlock without any analysis of either

LightenUpFGMember since 2018
2 years ago
Reply to  Mario Mendoza

Might have an article on that somewhere already written in some capacity, but these guys are 4-5 inning types who can’t quite sort out consistency. Maybe the written brevity is due to the continuing mystery as to how these guys are supposed to contribute since starting effectively has proven to be elusive. Very frustrating…

v2miccaMember since 2016
2 years ago

I have to say, it is so refreshing to see an article addressing this topic that doesn’t feel the need to resort to hyperbole in the title.
Everyone else I have seen covering the story feels the need to proclaim the Red Sox as completely screwed. It makes me appreciate the measured tone Fangraphs often brings to the discussion.

Last edited 2 years ago by v2micca
LightenUpFGMember since 2018
2 years ago
Reply to  v2micca

I would also like to think that if someone thought Giolito was going to be the backbone of the rotation this year, that someone was clueless. Thus, the Sox are not screwed due to his injury. An injury to Giolito practically keeps them in the same spot, so in my opinion the Sox haven’t *just* been put in a bind, they have already *been* in a bind due to their off-season inaction.

Last edited 2 years ago by JuuuustAnotherBaseballFan
beasterMember since 2018
2 years ago
Reply to  LightenUpFG

I think they see their spot in division and realize that they’ll be in salary cap hell if they try to buy their way out of it. It’s likely best to wait a few years and let the Blue Jays and Yankees burn out, hope that Tampa’s magic runs out, and then try and duke it out with Baltimore.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  v2micca

I just don’t know that the Red Sox can be considered contenders or anything. It’s not good for them but it’s not like the Phillies or any other win-now team having their (potentially) best pitcher blow out their arm. This was always a gamble for a team that is stuck in purgatory, just below playoff caliber. It’s just not that big of a deal.

Mike NMN
2 years ago

The signing paired with the Sale trade is interesting. Sale has 2024, with a vesting option for 25, but it vests if he finishes in the top ten CY. That’s a lot for someone often on the injured list, but he brought back Grissom, who is controllable for a few years. It’s kind of a value play–and I still don’t think that it’s a terrible signing/trade combo because Grissom could anchor a position cheaply for several years.

bosoxforlifeMember since 2016
2 years ago
Reply to  Mike NMN

I love Grissom and am behind that trade 100%.

RobWHartMember since 2022
2 years ago

What 3-4 MLB ready players do the Red Sox have to trade for Cease that might interest the White Sox?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  RobWHart

They have something five prospects in the Top 100 so they could pull it off, but I really wouldn’t want to give up the necessary talent. The Red Sox are the clear fifth-place team in a five-team division, and it’s a young team with some clear keepers (Casas, Devers) in addition to the guys in the Top 100 (Anthony, Teel, Mayer, Rafaela, Bleis) and a bunch of interesting guys who could be real contributors (Abreu, Bello, Duran). I wouldn’t be interested in subtracting from 2025-2030 to make a good run at fourth place in 2024.

bosoxforlifeMember since 2016
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Any attempt to pull a rabbit out the 2024 season’s hat would be so counterproductive as to be grounds for immediately firing Breslow. The Sox should be competitive and during SP in 2021 it would have been very hard to find anybody who dreamed they would be 2 games from the World Series that October. Duran looked very good last year and I think Crawford and Houck might surprise. If Story can still hit, somewhat doubtful, then he, Casas and Devers could be a fearsome middle of the order. Let’s see what happens

fjtorres
2 years ago
Reply to  bosoxforlife

They play the games for a reason.
It’s early and Boston has a chance…
…even if it’s an itty bitty one.

Let’s see what they do before burying them.

ishihara
2 years ago

Sooooooo… we pretty much are going to have to just play ALL the kids and figure out what we have. How’s this year’s draft class looking?

proiste
2 years ago
Reply to  ishihara

As a Boston fan, I’d rather they do that than the lifeless 78-82 win tightrope walk they’ve been trying to do lately

bosoxforlifeMember since 2016
2 years ago

As the octogenarian face of Red Sox Nation on this website I have read the comments and will try to offer my thoughts on this development. Throughout the winter I was laughing at Lucas Giolito and wondering, on this site, what GM would be foolish enough to even offer Giolito a minor league contract. Then my beloved Red Sox go out and ink him to an absolutely ridiculous deal that had very little chance to be good for the franchise. Ben Clemens acknowledged, to my response to his chat yesterday, that I nailed this from the beginning. I don’t know whether the Sox protected their (throwing the money away) investment with some insurance but $38M for nothing is pretty tough to overcome. I had so little belief that Giolito was going to be above replacement level that I don’t see the 2024 edition of the Red Sox being any worse than if Giolito had actually be allowed to make a fool of himself by starting a dozen or so games before everybody had seen enough. The next wave of young players look good, and will be inexpensive at the start, but can they actually play? I have been satiated by 4 World Series titles since 2004 and, even at 82, am willing to wait for the next great Red Sox team. Let the season begin!!

bosoxforlifeMember since 2016
2 years ago

To Mr. Ben Clemens: If I had been able to chat yesterday I would have asked this question. Do you think Giolito was hiding some hints of this injury as he was stinking the joint up during the last few months of last season?

avega1988
2 years ago

Kyle Braddish?

dangledangleMember since 2024
2 years ago

The pitching staff has been built on a lot of short term contracts but this off-season they didn’t even try beyond Giolito. The other issue is that they exposed themselves to much to the downside risk of this contract, and there is little chance he would land a comparable salary.

I liked the trade of Chris Sale to hopefully stabilize second base for years to come. The mistake there was not backfilling those innings as well. Two of the potential young starters got shut down last season with a number of injuries and need to handled with care and their innings controlled this season.

proiste
2 years ago
Reply to  dangledangle

I hope Henry can be convinced to open his checkbook just a little bit to get Lorenzen and/or Clevinger for some cheap innings than you can flip at the deadline for a 40FV prospect. This season is gone, but Bello and Crawford look like potential long-term mid rotation pieces, and the primary goal should be to let them develop without working their arms off

Last edited 2 years ago by proiste
texasjava97
2 years ago

Red Sox should go out and sign Bauer if my Angels refuse to do it. Red Sox SP is trash this year and Bauer would help for sure.