Mariners Attach Kelenic to Salary Dump. May God Have Mercy on Their Souls

Stephen Brashear-USA TODAY Sports

Rule no. 1 of MLB’s Winter Meetings: Beware of water features. Nashville’s Gaylord Opryland Resort & Convention Center, which for the next three days will serve as Vatican City for dudes in quarter zips and running shoes, contains within its expansive halls an artificial river. I’m in the process of putting together a bounty pool to see if we can get a writer to fall in the drink by the end of the week, but so far everyone’s stayed dry.

Nobody has suffered the fate of this legendary unfortunate, who absentmindedly stumbled into a Dallas hotel fountain in 2011, live on MLB Network. I’d like to propose — with the understanding that this might be controversial — that face-planting into a water feature would’ve been a more productive use of Jerry Dipoto’s Sunday evening than what he actually got up to.

The first major transaction of Winter Meetings is as follows: The Seattle Mariners traded outfielder Jarred Kelenic, pitcher Marco Gonzales, and first baseman Evan White to the Atlanta Braves for right-handed pitchers Jackson Kowar and Cole Phillips.

The Mariners, who just ended a 20-season playoff drought 15 months ago, have won at least 88 games three years running. They have a superb starting rotation and an excellent core of position players up the middle, in Cal Raleigh, J.P. Crawford, and Julio Rodríguez, the last of whom is already one of the most recognizable, marketable young stars in the entire sport. And all of them — the three position players and all five starting pitchers — are 31 or younger, and under team control for at least the next three seasons on reasonable deals.

From this enviable position, the Mariners decided to trade away their closer, Paul Sewald, at the trade deadline. Sewald then helped pitch the Diamondbacks to the World Series. Then, Seattle salary dumped Eugenio Suárez, once again to Arizona. And now, they’ve used Kelenic as a means to dump more salary.

Moving to Atlanta, where he’ll be a supporting player on a roster loaded with stars, might do Kelenic some good. He’s had the misfortune of playing the first few years of his career under immense scrutiny, as so often happens to any talented youngster who was employed by, traded from, or otherwise socially familiar with the New York Mets. And because Kelenic was the tentpole figure in a trade that cost the Mariners Robinson Canó and Edwin Díaz, he suffered similarly high expectations after he moved west.

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All that hype makes it hard to see through the noise and examine Kelenic for what he actually is. He came out of the gate on fire in 2023, then gradually cooled off as the season wore on, and eventually missed two months with a broken foot, which he suffered a week after he turned 24.

Kelenic still has some major swing-and-miss issues; he posted a strikeout rate over 30% and a contact rate under 70% in 2023, both of which would’ve been among the worst in the league if he’d played enough to qualify. But when he does make contact, he hits the ball hard, and while the first impulse for a corner outfielder with power and strikeout issues is to platoon, Kelenic had a 115 wRC+ against lefties and a 105 wRC+ against righties this past season.

The ship has probably sailed on Kelenic playing center field regularly. And now that he’ll count Michael Harris II and Ronald Acuña Jr. as teammates, Kelenic will be quite far down the center field line of succession in Atlanta. But he still has the tools to contribute defensively in a corner. And at age 24, with less than 1,000 major league PA under his belt and five years of team control remaining, Kelenic still has upside.

At the very worst, he’s an average left fielder right now. Squint and you can see a poor man’s James Outman, maybe something better.

So what have Dipoto’s Mariners gained by ridding themselves of this player?

When this news broke, I was at dinner with the FanGraphs delegation and made what I thought at the time was an uncharitable joke: That the Mariners had probably traded Kelenic for a quad-A pitcher without an out pitch, or a quad-A infielder with a high contact rate and no secondary offensive skills.

The truth turned out to be even more cruel.

This is something like the fourth time in the past 10 months Kowar has wound up in an article of mine, and I’ve been obliged to point out that he has one of the worst ERAs in MLB history. It doesn’t feel great to keep doing this, so I hope the Mariners can move him to the bullpen, reshape his fastball, and turn him into a useful big league pitcher. The Mariners have a good track record of developing pitchers, so maybe they’ll have some luck with Kowar.

The Braves took Phillips in the second round in 2022; as you might expect from a right-handed Texas high school pitcher named Cole, Phillips throws hard, topping out as high as 98 mph as a senior. Or rather, he threw hard. Phillips had that velo spike during his senior year, then tore his UCL in April. The Braves drafted him anyway, but Phillips is now 20 years old and has never thrown a competitive pitch in the pros. Any 20-year-old in rookie ball is inherently a long shot to become an impact major leaguer, and Phillips still needs to prove that he can retain his velocity after elbow surgery.

The real value add for Seattle, if you want to call it that, is getting rid of Gonzales and White.

Gonzales, who will be 32 on Opening Day, had been a useful innings-eating starter for the Mariners for several years. Seattle acquired the former Gonzaga standout in mid-2017 in a challenge trade that sent Tyler O’Neill to St. Louis, and from 2018 to 2022, Gonzalez averaged 26 starts and 153 innings a year, with an ERA of 3.94. He never struck anyone out, but it worked well enough.

Gonzales missed most of 2023 with a nerve issue in his throwing arm, and though he’s expected to be ready for the start of next season, it’s reasonable to get the heebie-jeebies at the sight of a phrase like “nerve issue.” Gonzales is entering the last year of his contract, which will pay him $12.25 million; his deal also has a $15 million club option for 2025, with no buyout.

There’s no discounting the possibility that Gonzales’ injury could linger, or flare up, or cause untold other issues. But if he’s healthy, $12.25 million is basically market rate for an innings eater these days. It’s a rounding error off from what Lance Lynn and Kyle Gibson got from the Cardinals. Update: Ken Rosenthal reports that the Braves intend to trade Gonzales to an as-yet-unnamed third destination. (Why do we need a low-strikeout innings eater? We have Bryce Elder at home.) That implies that Gonzales has positive trade value, even if Atlanta has to eat part of his 2024 salary.

White is another rough injury case; the Mariners’ first-round pick in 2017, he’s injured just about everything in an absolutely cursed professional career. He didn’t play at all in 2023, and not playing is not the worst-case scenario for White, a career .165/.235/.308 hitter.

The only reason White needs to be salary-dumped is the contract Dipoto signed him to in the 2019-20 offseason, before White had even played an inning in the majors: Six years and $24 million guaranteed, with three club options. That bought out White’s entire team control period; now, the Braves owe White $7 million in 2024, $8 million in 2025, and at least $2 million in option buyout money in 2026. (If the Braves do pick up White’s $10 million option, it would represent a miraculous comeback, particularly because playing time at first base is going to be extremely hard to come by.)

Contracts like White’s — multi-year buyouts of arbitration and early free agency years, given to players of little or no big league experience — have gone in and out of fashion in the past decade. And while they’re inherently risky, the leverage is stacked so heavily in the team’s favor that it’s really difficult to screw them up. And on the rare occasion that happens, salary dumping the contract is not the done thing.

Dipoto, an eight-year major league veteran, surely knows what happens when an infielder boots a groundball: Everyone around him yells, “Eat it!” The last thing you want to do after making a mistake is to panic and make another while trying to fix it.

When White came out of Kentucky, he was a right-handed-hitting college first baseman whose best asset was his glove. In the pros, it became clear that there were holes in White’s swing that he did not have the power to live with. It was an obvious own goal to spend a first-round pick on that player, a mistake to extend him before he faced major league pitching, and now Dipoto is giving up a big league contributor in Kelenic, in order to get White’s relatively insignificant salary off the Mariners’ books. If there is solace to be had in this trade, it’s that with White off the roster, Dipoto can’t make a fourth mistake on him.

The thing I can’t get over with this trade, and Seattle’s offseason in general, is how little money the Mariners have saved. We don’t know exactly how much; Luis Urías’ arbitration case is still pending, and the exact amount of cash the Mariners are sending to Atlanta still isn’t public. Update: it’s $4.5 million payable August 1.

But between this trade, the Suárez trade, and the Urías-for-Isaiah Campbell trade, the Mariners have gotten worse at two positions and saved $22 million, give or take, in 2024 salary. Additional commitments in salary and buyouts to White and Suárez come to $12 million, all of which would be off the books by the end of 2025.

What does saving that relative pittance do for Seattle? Does it take them down a CBT tier and improve their draft position? Does it free up money to sign another superstar? Hardly. According to RosterResource, Seattle’s projected 2024 payroll is just $115 million. They could probably sign Shohei Ohtani, clone him, sign the clone to an identical contract, and not pay the competitive balance tax. This kind of salary dump is penny-ante stuff. It’s petty. It’s undignified.

Here I’ll offer two possible scenarios that could at least partially vindicate Dipoto’s offseason so far. First: This could all be a precursor to signing Ohtani, trading for and extending Juan Soto, or both. I wouldn’t put money on either of those things happening, but it’s possible. And if Ohtani or Soto does end up wearing teal next year, I’ll take back every snide thing I wrote in the previous 1,700 words. Indeed, Dipoto promised that this new payroll flexibility would be put to use. And while I’m not convinced that White’s and Gonzales’ salaries were an implacable barrier to the Mariners contending, only two of the top 24 free agents (Aaron Nola and Sonny Gray) are spoken for at the moment. There are weeks and weeks of productive offseason left.

It’s more likely, however, that ownership is squeezing this front office. Not that it makes an iota of difference to Mariners fans who watched their team barely miss the playoffs twice in the past three years. But I can understand ownership cutting the team’s hamstrings in order to save a couple bucks, even if it’s not a praiseworthy motive. The Mariners are on particularly untrustworthy footing as the RSN bubble begins to wobble; in October, Comcast cut Root Sports from its lower cable tier, forcing customers who want to watch the Mariners to upgrade, at a net cost of $20 per month. Perhaps the meat of this trade is Kelenic to Atlanta, Kowar to Seattle, and concrete shoes to Dipoto.

As bleak as that is, I don’t see an on-field justification for this move otherwise. These are moves you make when you’re trying to win 49% of your games, not 54.





Michael is a writer at FanGraphs. Previously, he was a staff writer at The Ringer and D1Baseball, and his work has appeared at Grantland, Baseball Prospectus, The Atlantic, ESPN.com, and various ill-remembered Phillies blogs. Follow him on Twitter, if you must, @MichaelBaumann.

173 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Ozzie Albies
2 years ago

I’m getting less money than Evan White !?!!?!! $@$$!%#!!

BenZobrist4MVP
2 years ago
Reply to  Ozzie Albies

That is crazy. Also, how many decimal places do you have to go to to get to the percent chance that in 2026 Atlanta declines Albies’ $7 million option, but picks up White’s $10 million option?

sandwiches4everMember since 2019
2 years ago
Reply to  BenZobrist4MVP

Countably infinite.

reynolds352Member since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  Ozzie Albies

But how much is a 4-WAR-per-full-year 2B really worth though?

2019-2023 you’ve gotten 14.1 fWAR (including two really short years because of injuries!)

14.1 fWAR x $7 million (mid point between $5 and $9 million) per 1 fWAR, divide that by 5 years

Hmm. $19 million a year, even accounting for the lost production from injuries.

Well… but… okay, so listen, you’re short and skinny, so we can’t pick up the option. You’ll make more on the open market anyway! We’re doing you a favor!

wandererkentMember since 2025
2 years ago

Hear, hear.

sandwiches4everMember since 2019
2 years ago

The fourth — it wouldn’t really a “mistake” at that point — indignity would be if, against all odds Evan White figures something out and becomes a useful MLB contributor.

CC AFCMember since 2016
2 years ago

The Braves really hate Vaughn Grissom, huh? I think it’d be a coin flip between him and Kelenic as to who would be better with the full time job. But clearly they don’t see it that way

FrancoeursteinMember since 2025
2 years ago
Reply to  CC AFC

I’m not exaggerating when I say he’s the worst infield defender I’ve seen in a Braves uniform. He makes Uggla look like a Gold Glover. I don’t think he has the thump to start every day in LF, either.

dukewinslowMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  Francoeurstein

Wait didn’t they try Troy Glaus at third? I remember him not being great

68FCMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  CC AFC

I believe they’ve said they might platoon Kelenic and Grissom, which would probably combine into a respectable LF situation.

Slenderman
2 years ago
Reply to  68FC

They’ll platoon Kelenic and Ozuna in LF. Ohtani at DH

Slenderman
2 years ago
Reply to  CC AFC

He is an abysmal defender and doesn’t have much pop in the bat. Makes a lot of contact but that’s about it.

hughduffy
2 years ago
Reply to  CC AFC

I think the Braves are pretty high on Vaughn Grissom. For one thing, they haven’t traded him, even with ample opportunity to do so. He had a .921 OPS in the International League as a 22 year old, so he doesn’t have anything more to prove with his bat in AAA. He’ll be playing LF in Puerto Rico winter ball to learn the position.

That said, he wasn’t ready defensively to play major-league shortstop in 2023. He reminded me of Dansby Swanson… circa 2017. Too much in his own head when he was playing the field. I think he could be a major league shortstop with sufficient reps at the position, but the Braves can’t afford to allow him to learn at the major league level.

Grissom makes a right-handed lineup more right-handed, so it’s not a bad idea getting another left-handed hitter for platoon and backup purposes. Grissom will probably be the primary infield backup, so if Albies or Arcia get injured, he’ll probably play 2B/SS. It never hurts to have depth.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago

While I hate the philosophy of this trade from the Mariners perspective I am even more flummoxed about why the Braves would do this. They’re saving a lot of money on Kelenic’s contract specifically over a left field platoon option in free agency but then adding more salary with a bunch of dead salary.

Ultimately I think this has to be about the Mariners’ development team worrying about Kelenic backsliding and becoming useless again while the Braves’ development team thinks that there is some untapped potential there. Of these two positions I think I would side more with the Mariners, but in the context of their other salary dumping move it doesn’t look good.

dukewinslowMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Go on, look at Eddie Rosario’s numbers…

Even if Kelenic is the same guy and doesn’t develop at all, this covers up a pretty big hole for the Braves, maybe the only one.

Last edited 2 years ago by dukewinslow
Smiling PolitelyMember since 2018
2 years ago
Reply to  dukewinslow

^this. Also, what are your options in FA? Matt Chapman turned LF? Paying Bellinger to be a gg LF? Kelenic’s floor is an improvement for ATL, and you can believe a fully healthy season makes him a 3 WAR candidate. Sure, they “bought” him, but you can do that when your other players are all on team friendly deals.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago

I think the alternative is signing a free agent. You don’t need to go up to Bellinger to find someone better than Kelenic. Hunter Renfroe is probably a better hitter. And he might even cost less. Someone like Teoscar Hernandez would cost more but be better.

Southi
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Renfroe had a negative WAR and hits right handed. How is he a better option?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  Southi

He had a negative WAR if you like DRS more than OAA, which you shouldn’t. I don’t like Hunter Renfroe, but his projection looks a whole lot like Kelenic’s.

CousinNicky
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Would he, steamer has them both at about 1.5 wins for 150 games. Kelenic however is only 24 with upside, better defense and baserunning and Teoscar is trending downwards over his past couple seasons since his great 2021 season.

kingharbaughMember since 2021
2 years ago
Reply to  CousinNicky

Well with Teo you at least get the funniest baserunner in the league. It’s bad for his on field production but damn he had me laughing pretty often last season with his ill advised attempts to stretch a single into a double.

slz
2 years ago

Kelenic’s floor is that he’s the PTBNL from MLB to the Kiwoom Heroes or Orix Buffaloes this time next season

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  dukewinslow

Is this really better and cheaper than signing Hunter Renfroe? I am very skeptical.
Although he will be under team control for a bit.

couthcommander
2 years ago
Reply to  dukewinslow

I don’t see it. Rosario is the better left-fielder and higher OPS against righties. Kelenic had one good month beating up on non-playoff teams. I would take Rosario over $25m+salary for 5 years of Kelenic.

Jewish PacheMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I think there’s a chance that Nola and Gray were legitimately the most intriguing options at their price point for the Braves, and with both off the board, they got creative with how they can use 2024 money with no long term ramifications.

Kelenic isn’t the typical Braves target; they like guys with good maxEV who might have a more contact-oriented approach and getting them to focus on clobbering the ball. That’s already Kelenic’s profile, so any changes they try to make with him won’t be quite that obvious. Still, even if he never improves from what he showed last year, that’s a cheap quality LF.

Last thing: I think they might have at least some interest in Marco Gonzales. Not at 12.5M but I’ll be interested to see if they scrap his four seamer entirely and make him just go cutter-curve-change. Nobody expects anything more from him than a #5 at absolute most but as far as salary dumps go, there have definitely been less interesting ones (and a lot of more interesting ones as well)

Edit: 1 minute after I post this comment and I see Marco is not staying. Whoops

Last edited 2 years ago by Jewish Pache
Mitchell MooreMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  Jewish Pache

A team planning on winning does not want to be giving starts to Marco Gonzalez. Over the last three seasons, MG has pitched 376 innings with a 5.03 FIP, 103 of 104 qualified pitchers. Seems tailor made to finish his contract with the Royals.

Pirates HurdlesMember since 2024
2 years ago
Reply to  Mitchell Moore

or Pittsburgh, gotta get a soft tossing lefty to replace Rich Hill.

Mitchell MooreMember since 2020
2 years ago

You called it.

snood
2 years ago
Reply to  Mitchell Moore

The Braves gave 41 starts to guys with FIPs over 5.03 last year. Clearly they can bash their way to the playoffs while starting scrubs for a quarter of the season, but the worst qualified starter in baseball is still better than the AAAA guys everybody has to patch their rotation with at some point.

hughduffy
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Let’s say that the Braves are unable to trade Marco Gonzales, which has been stated is their plan.
Marco Gonzales is owed $12.25M for 2024, and has a $15M club option for 2025.
Evan White is owed $7M for 2024, $8M for 2025, with club options for 2026 and beyond.
Jerred Kelenic gets the minimum in 2024, then is arb eligible for 2025-2028.
The Braves receive $4.5M from the Mariners as part of this trade.
That means that Gonzales and White will cost $14.75M for 2024, and $8M for 2025, for $22.75M over 2 years.

The Braves have said they’ll use Vaughn Grissom in LF. Grissom bats right, Kelenic bats left – that’s your left field platoon. For 2024, both will make the major league minimum, which helps the Braves this year as their estimated payroll is $220M+.

Other left field options, are less palatable. The Braves lineup is pretty right-handed as it is, so a LHH is the priority. Options like Bellinger or Pederson are out of their price range, and most other 1+ WAR LHH OF are projected to get at least a $9M/1 yr contract. If the Braves were going to pay that, they might have exercised their option on Eddie Rosario. Even looking at the RHH OF options, that would be at least an $8M/1 yr contract. And then you have the same problem next year.
This gives the Braves a LHH OF option at reasonable cost for the next 5 years, and if they trade Gonzales, it makes the price more reasonable.

whiptydojoe
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

You spend a lot of words to be wrong. Often.

Logan DavisMember since 2017
2 years ago

In the pros, it became clear that there were holes in White’s swing that he did not have the power to live with.

I don’t think this is quite a fair evaluation of White. In his largest major-league sample (2020) he had top-10% max exit velo and a top-5% hard-hit rate. Behold this 440-foot tank job to right-center field. The guy could hit the ball hard, on top of being a Gold Glove first baseman. I think there was potential there.

But he just could not stay healthy. His lower body soft-tissue injury history is… it’s not good, man.

Otherwise, great article, and a real bummer of a trade for Seattle.

68FCMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  Logan Davis

IIRC he was a swing change guy in the minors that unlocked that power, but he has had massive swing and miss issues in the big leagues that makes anything short of Judge/Stanton power unplayable.

sadhulkMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  68FC

He had all of 300 PAs in the majors, and most of those were in empty stadiums in 2020. He’d have gotten more chances if his hip held up.

68FCMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  sadhulk

Maybe, but we are still talking about a 1B with a 52 wRC+ over 300 PA. He needs to demonstrate he can still hit in the minors first and the injury has robbed him of that chance.

sadhulkMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  68FC

Yeah, they traded for a different first baseman 30 games into his career for a reason, but the potential for better pitch recognition was there.

Randy HEatonMember since 2020
2 years ago

I agree with the author’s opinions here. Kelenic has potential to be an above average outfielder or at a minimum a slightly below average outfielder. Ok so what? Well he will also have 4 more years of a very below average salary. So M’s are saving some money in 25, 26 on White, but gave up a guy that could save them even more in Kelenic.

This is sort of crazy, you lock in savings of less than $10mm a year in 25, 26 in exchange you give up a guy that has a higher than 60-70% probability of saving you $4mm, $6mm, then $10mm a year in 25, 26, 27, 28. And he might save you even more than that.

If Marco comes back and throws a few starts that are decent, then you trade him for nothing and save his money. If he can’t come back then you eat $12.5mm… which should not be a large number for a Seattle franchise already with low payroll.

shampain
2 years ago
Reply to  Randy HEaton

Sure, but averageish corner OF is the cheapest commodity in all of MLB. Kelenic has a big name b/c of the “service time manipulation” (what a joke that whole fracas ended up being) and being included in blockbuster trades — ironically, Seattle acquired him in a previous salary dump (Cano, definitely a cautionary tale for them) — but it’s unclear whether he’s actually… y’know… good at baseball.

In most trade articles the authors describe ZIPS and/or Steamer projections to help them analyze the trade (Dan often will report projections for specific players to facilitate these articles if the team projections are out yet). In this case nothing like that is mentioned. Why not? Maybe because Steamer projects less than 1 WAR, and I would guess that ZIPS is pretty similar.

There’s another way to frame this article that is different from “why are the Mariners so cheap?” And that is “Why are the other 28 MLB teams so stupid?” And the answer is that, for almost all of them, Kelenic doesn’t help them. The Braves are in a nearly-unique position of being highly-competitive while having a total black hole in the corner outfield, in a market in which there are almost no decent corner outfielders available in free agency for a team in the tax. That combination of things almost never happens. So this made sense for them, but not for many other teams.

Lanidrac
2 years ago
Reply to  shampain

I thought journeyman middle reliever (not even a setup man) was the cheapest commodity in MLB, assuming “commodity” implies playable on a decent team.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  Lanidrac

That was before every pitcher’s arm fell off.

FWIW, the expanded DH has made it so that there is now more competition for corner outfielders, 1B, and DH types. So they’re not totally fungible either.

The main problem is that Kelenic just isn’t very good.

shampain
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I don’t know if it’s ever really been true. When was the time that there was decent-quality middle relievers out there to be had for free? Those are the guys who are barely hanging on to their roster spot, the idea that there was a near-infinite stream of “fungible” middle relievers is mostly about the fact that pitching performances are hard to predict in small samples, not that it’s a cheap and readily-available commodity. It’s rare!

There are always Will Smith types out there for 1/$5mn or so, sure. But those guys only throw like 50 (volatile) innings, which is roughly 3% of the innings a team needs to have pitched in a season. They also break a lot, so you need a bunch of them, and that gets expensive pretty quick. You can spend that same money and get a platoon-quality COF, sometimes someone even better.

Here’s an example from today: MLBTR is reporting that Erick Fedde (now in his 30s!) is coming back from the KBO on a multiyear deal with AAV above $5mn. He’s basically the definition of a replacement-level MRP/swingman type, was non-tendered one year ago, and he’s going to be guaranteed 7 figures.

If a COF goes to KBO, they stay there.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  Randy HEaton

I am skeptical that Kelenic is going to be more than an adequate platoon bat in a corner and he might be less. He is the kind of player that rebuilding clubs look for because their variance makes them interesting and contending teams want to move on from.

Mitchell MooreMember since 2020
2 years ago

As a follower of the club, I’m willing to withhold general judgment to see how matters play out the rest of the off-season, but provisionally, petty and vindictive will do.

SculpinMember since 2025
2 years ago

Responding last off-season to fan frustration, Dipoto said that despite not spending any meaningful money on roster upgrades, the Mariners would nevertheless be better in 2023 due to improvement in their “young core players.” They did get a big improvement from JP Crawford and incremental improvement from Kelenic, but Julio declined along with veterans France and Suarez to offset any gain. JP’s season was a nice surprise, but as a 60 FV prospect, Kelenic was the one guy who was capable of improving enough to change the fortunes of the team. That was still true this offseason, he was really the only hitter on the roster with enough upside to become a star. And now he is gone.

bookbookMember since 2024
2 years ago
Reply to  Sculpin

Julio declined to a 6 WAR season in which he finished only 4th in AL MVP voting. (I know he had some offensive struggles that were frustrating to watch, but man, talk about blaming your team’s best player…)

68FCMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  bookbook

His wRC+ dropped 20 points, he still was great, but the team was built on the assumption he was going to still be a 140+ wRC+ guy. That isn’t Julio’s failing, that is on management, but when the plan is everyone having career years every year because the team wants to be cheap, there isn’t much margin for anyone not being at their peak.

kingharbaughMember since 2021
2 years ago
Reply to  68FC

His xWOBA was almost exactly the same between the two season. His decline wasn’t anything to be concerned about. It wasn’t even a decline.

68FCMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  kingharbaugh

There is no reason to be concerned about Julio’s future if anything it looks brighter after 2023 than 2022, but xwOBA is irrelevant when talking about retrospective production. Julio produced less offense on a rate basis in 2023 than in 2022, that isn’t a criticism of his process, but an observation of fact. Even if the underlying data shows that the difference between 2022 and 2023 was mostly just random variance, his production was down.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
2 years ago

Even as someone who thinks that fWAR dramatically underrates the value of elite relievers…I have a hard time taking umbrage with the Sewald trade.

He was obviously dynamite in the playoffs, but he was replacement level down the stretch, while Rojas was excellent…and Rojas has two additional seasons of team control!

And Bliss is a fine lottery ticket thrown in, to boot!

Last edited 2 years ago by Cool Lester Smooth
sadhulkMember since 2020
2 years ago

I was fine with that trade, they were a .500 team at the time. It was trading strength for weakness.

The bad part about that trade is that it was only a weakness because they went cheap the previous offseason with Wong and Pollock, and now they seem like they’re penciling in Rojas and Canzone as everyday starters in a year they should be pushing the chips in to contend.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  sadhulk

I still don’t get the blowback.

If the Yankees had traded Clay Holmes for a Taylor Ward type, plus a couple flyers, they would have been much better off down the stretch…and Holmes has been quite a bit better than Sewald since the Yankees acquired him.

Last edited 2 years ago by Cool Lester Smooth
sadhulkMember since 2020
2 years ago

People really liked rooting for Paul Sewald. Suarez and Gonzales as well, and Kelenic right up until the cooler incident. The Sewald trade made sense for on the field reasons but was tough as a fan.

The two trades this offseason are just tough.

PC1970Member since 2024
2 years ago

That’s one of those moves that is logical, but, the optics are terrible to the common fan.

Trading your closer at the deadline & watching him be lights out while his new team makes the WS, while you barely miss the playoffs is tough to explain..even if the WAR #’s make sense.

In that regard..& coming off not spending in the 2023 offseaon & now salary dumping in 2024, is just gasoline on the fire.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  PC1970

They only “just missed the playoffs” because they replaced Kolten Wong with a solid starter, in return for a guy whose performance down the stretch would have made him their 5th best reliever, haha!

The fact that SEA fans hadn’t heard of Rojas doesn’t change the fact that he had spent the previous two seasons as a 2.5-3 WAR/650 player.

Last edited 2 years ago by Cool Lester Smooth
68FCMember since 2020
2 years ago

It was a good trade for the M’s but they did a terrible job conveying it, just like with the Kendall Graveman deal in 2021. For a team like the Mariners who are good at developing relievers, trading a veteran reliever at the deadline is a good move even when trying to contend, but it looks like giving up. Dipoto is quite bad at messaging to the fans and the players, so when he trades the closer at the deadline, he doesn’t frame it as a move to be better now.

The biggest issue for him is that he has popular respected players like Kyle Seager and Cal Raleigh actively criticizing the trades because they feel like management is giving up on them. Some of that criticism is warranted, but better communication with the clubhouse would go a long way.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  68FC

100% fair point!

kingharbaughMember since 2021
2 years ago
Reply to  PC1970

Sewald was mostly really bad with the Diamondbacks.

kingharbaughMember since 2021
2 years ago

And Canzone has good batted ball data. And Sewald was only really good for like 3 innings in the playoffs. He was awful in the world series.

Jeff in JerseyMember since 2020
2 years ago

Prediction: Kelenic signs a team-friendly deal with the Braves and becomes a 4-WAR player. A winning environment helps him curb his anger issues. Olson tells him how to cut down on his strikeouts. He hits .800 against the Mets and hits a game-winning home run off of Edwin Diaz and knocks the Mets out of the playoffs.

catmanwayne
2 years ago
Reply to  Jeff in Jersey

The Mariners have been a winning environment since Kelenic made his debut.

downbaddav
2 years ago
Reply to  catmanwayne

there’s varying degrees to that classification

Roger McDowell Hot Foot
2 years ago

This could all be a precursor to signing Ohtani […] if Ohtani or Soto does end up wearing teal next year, I’ll take back every snide thing I wrote in the previous 1,700 words

At this point it really looks like Dipoto has gone into 100% “Ohtani or bust” mode. I’m personally betting on bust, and I can’t see what his backup plan is at all, but it’s the only way any of these moves make sense to me — there would be no other reason for this kind of overwhelming emphasis on reducing short-term payroll, even if it means giving up talent. If ownership was just pinching pennies, the future pennies that they’d save on Kelenic would matter more than they apparently did here.

PC1970Member since 2024
2 years ago

I agree..but, don’t you wait to salary dump until AFTER Ohtani signs? You can’t clear out contributors for pennies on the dollar before you know Ohtani is coming.

If Ohtani goes elsewhere, you’ll end up with the worst of both worlds & a worse team next year & an upset fan base, to boot.

dl80Member since 2026
2 years ago
Reply to  PC1970

But this way, they can say “we did everything we could, but they just weren’t willing to sign here,” all while raking in those sweet sweet profits

Roger McDowell Hot Foot
2 years ago
Reply to  PC1970

That’s certainly how I’d do it, yes. But it’s possible the backup plan is you’re fired anyhow, so who cares.

PC1970Member since 2024
2 years ago

Of course, the other thought is if Ohtani uses a chance to win as a deciding factor in his decision (which I know has been reported, but, no idea how true it is), trading Suarez/Kelenic for peanuts sure doesn’t help them show they’re truly committed to winning.

sadhulkMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  PC1970

It seems harder to move salaries later in the offseason. If they waited to move salary later, they’d have run the risk of getting next to nothing for some solid major leaguers!

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago

They might have a shot at Soto in 2025. He and Ohtani are the sort of elite, big name hitters to go after. But same with a bunch of other teams too.

carterMember since 2020
2 years ago

Not that sportswriters are always right, but Mariners best writers and national writers have said the Mariners are 100% out on Ohtani, and they aren’t even listed in his 6 options. Which, well umm

PC1970Member since 2024
2 years ago

So, Gonzales makes $12.25M in 2024. White makes $7M in 2024, $8M in 2025, $2M buy out for 2026.

That’s $29.25M in salary going to Atlanta. M’s are sending $4.5M by 8/1/24, so ATL is out $24.75M at the moment, pending what they do with Gonzales/how much $$ they have to eat to trade him.

I’ll ignore Kowar & the guy that hasn’t pitched in pro ball yet. They have some value, but, it can’t be much & they clearly weren’t a part of ATL’s near future.

So, for payouts of $14.75M this year ($19.25M – the 4.5M coming by 8/1) & $8M in 2025 & $2M in 2026, they got a guy who was on pace to be a 3 WAR player in his age 23 season last year & was a top 10 prospect not long ago. & is not arb eligible for 2 years & not a FA for 6 years..meaning his salary will be less than $1M/year while ATL pays down the bad contracts in 2024/25 & will rise slowly thereafter from 2026-2029

That’s a steal & a great move, even if they need to eat all of Gonzales salary & he never pitches.

At this point, I half expect Kelenic to break out & become a 40 HR masher & for ATL to sign him to a 7-8 year $80- 90M below market deal starting in 2025…but, even if he’s just a 2 WAR player for 3-4 years, this is a huge win for Atlanta.

Last edited 2 years ago by PC1970
lacslyer
2 years ago
Reply to  PC1970

Agreed, everyone focusing on Gonzales here are ignoring the massive upside this could have for Atlanta at a relatively low cost.

Jeff in JerseyMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  PC1970

See my prediction above. Sigh.

JayMember since 2023
2 years ago
Reply to  PC1970

“even if he’s just a 2 WAR player for 3-4 years, this is a huge win for Atlanta”

I like this deal for Atlanta, but why are people acting like this is Kelenic’s floor? He’s never been worth 2 WAR. Fangraphs Depth Charts project him for 1 WAR next year. He’s spent parts of 3 seasons in the majors and basically the only time he was good was April of 2023.

Southi
2 years ago
Reply to  Jay

Kelenic literally just had a 2.0 bWAR season in 2023.

CousinNicky
2 years ago
Reply to  Jay

I mean prorating his 2023 season to 150 games he is at 1.9 fWAR for a 23 year old. Is it a crazy stretch to think some minor improvements happen in his prime 24-28 seasons and he is a 2-3 win player especially for a player that has shown a 10% BB rate. The K rate is bad but Atlanta(Seitzer) has done some recent great work on that see Austin Riley.

JayMember since 2023
2 years ago
Reply to  CousinNicky

I don’t really love the idea of prorating his season when basically all of his value came in one month and the reason he missed games is that he was performing so poorly the rest of the season that he injured himself out of frustration. At any rate that’s not the point. Of course it isn’t crazy to imagine him turning into a 2-3 WAR player. My point is that shouldn’t be considered his *floor*. His floor is the borderline unplayable guy he was in 2021-2022 (and much of 2023).

shampain
2 years ago
Reply to  Jay

Plus, these comments are basically saying that the Mariners should be paying like $30mn for 2 WAR in the corner outfield, less whatever value whoever takes Kelenic’s PAs will provide, and they are a bad organization for not doing that. In other context that argument would be mocked mercilessly, FJM-style.

lacslyer
2 years ago
Reply to  Jay

Is that really fair to consider his floor when he’s only 23 and was called up at 21? If that’s fair to consider his potential floor it’s just as fairly negated by saying it’s way too early to give up on him.

Last edited 2 years ago by lacslyer
casey jMember since 2026
2 years ago
Reply to  lacslyer

I read it as him saying its just “part of the variance”. He could be anywhere from negative – 4.5 WAR, reasonably.

I mean that. He could hit .165 and be unplayable. I’ve seen it. Or he can play really well at times. I think Jarred plays best when it is a surprise, and really has to earn playing time, or a manager can play matchups with him. I like him as 4th OF at all three spots, with some stick.

Good guy to deal, and good guy for a good team to acquire.

catmanwayne
2 years ago

I want to hate this trade, but White, Kelenic and Gonzales have been scrubs the last couple of years.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  catmanwayne

People seem to really be overestimating Kelenic here. Maybe he breaks out. maybe not.

catmanwayne
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I’ve watched him for the past three seasons and outside of a couple of really hot months, he’s been really, really bad. Some guys have all the raw talent in the world but it doesn’t mean that talent can translate to MLB success.

sadhulkMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  catmanwayne

I understand why they wanted to move on from Kelenic, the issue is they could have gotten something better for him than salary relief.

catmanwayne
2 years ago
Reply to  sadhulk

How much better exactly? Every team knows about Kelenic as a near-bust. He’s almost out of milb options, and every year has been marred with struggles. In fact, Alex Anthopolus even said he doesn’t expect much more than a platoon LF out of this deal. Maybe on his own Kelenic gets you a decent middle reliever, and not just a couple of lottery ticket arms along with a $25M salary relief, but the Mariners don’t trade for relievers. They pick them up off of scrap heaps, turn them into studs, and then trade them away for position players.

sadhulkMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  catmanwayne

They probably could have gotten more prospects from the Braves instead of the salary relief. Like the article says, this team hasn’t used its financial flexibility recently.

synco
2 years ago
Reply to  sadhulk

What kind of prospects do we think we’re getting for Kelenic at this point?

sadhulkMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  synco

I wouldn’t expect a highly ranked prospect, but anyone on the Braves prospect list will have a much better chance of helping the team win games at some point than more financial flexibility they’re not going to use.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  sadhulk

I have a sneaking suspicion that this was pretty close to the best prospect / post-prospect return they were going to get. If the Mariners were demanding another one of the Braves’ top 10 or so prospects for Kelenic I think the Braves would have probably moved on to someone else.

Shirtless George Brett
2 years ago
Reply to  sadhulk

As Dave Cameron used to say “teams take the best offer they get”. If this is the trade the M’s made, its probably the best offer they got.

This idea that there is always some other, better trade out there a team could have made is largely just fans wishing for things.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
2 years ago

But what influence could Dave Cameron have on the Mariners’ baseball operations decisions?????

coolcoolcoolMember since 2026
2 years ago

“Best offer” is subjective though and depends on what a team chooses to prioritize. The Mariners are prioritizing salary relief, so this was most likely the best offer in that context. If they chose to prioritize prospects instead, this almost certainly wasn’t the best offer.

I think the criticisms of this trade and the Suarez trade mostly revolve around the fact that it doesn’t look like they’re prioritizing putting the best baseball product on the field.

Shirtless George Brett
2 years ago
Reply to  coolcoolcool

“Best offer” is subjective though and depends on what a team chooses to prioritize. The Mariners are prioritizing salary relief, so this was most likely the best offer in that context. If they chose to prioritize prospects instead, this almost certainly wasn’t the best offer.

You say they are “prioritizing salary relief” but thats only because the trade they ended up making is salary relief. it could very well be (in fact I would say its likely) that this is just the best deal they got so its what they did. You are falling into the exact trap I was talking about with this imaginary other, better trade they could have made.

If the M’s could have traded Kelenic for better prospects, they probably would have. The fact that they didnt is a strong sign they couldn’t.

Which is exactly the whole point of the statement “teams take the best deal they are offered”.

cm26Member since 2025
2 years ago

“If the M’s could have traded Kelenic for better prospects, they probably would have.”

For much better prospects probably, sure. For marginally better prospects? Can we be sure they valued salary relief less than slightly better prospects?

shampain
2 years ago
Reply to  coolcoolcool

I mean, so far this is addition by subtraction. If they spend even a little bit of the money on scouts, or draft bonuses, or more analysts, or a team nutritionist, or some lotto picks for the empty 40-man slots… any of these might help the product on the field more than three bad players who frankly haven’t earned playing time.

In addition to that, the relationship between Kelenic and the org was clearly fractured. It’s almost certainly best for the player to let him go, and this is a way to make that happen in which everybody is at least somewhat happy.

For Atlanta, the hope is that greener pastures facilitate better development. They can afford to take some low probability plays, and it’s not hard to see this one working out at least somewhat well.

sadhulkMember since 2020
2 years ago

The irony of them getting a 20 year old RHP prospect named C. Phillips who was recently drafted around pick 60 as the main prospect return in a salary dump less than two years after trading away a 20 year old RHP prospect named C. Phillips who was recently drafted around pick 60 as the main piece in the Suarez/Winker salary dump for the Reds.

FunFella13Member since 2016
2 years ago
Reply to  sadhulk

How is that ironic

TKDCMember since 2016
2 years ago

Fangraphs really just can’t quit the “Acuña in CF possibility.” It ain’t happening. Ozuna will play there before Acuña does (okay, not really). But Acuña has 14 innings in CF since 2021 (13 in 2021 and 1 in 2022). He’s not nor will he ever be a CF, even a back up. Kelenic probably will be the backup CF next season.

Also, I feel like part of this deal has to be about efforts to get below the tax threshold in either 2024 or 2025 for the Braves. I wonder how they must allocate the $4.5 million from the M’s and then presumably they will eat less themselves to deal Marco as he’s not useless to a team with bad starting pitching. I’m also unsure how Evan White’s salary hits the Braves? His AAV overall is way lower than what it is for the portion the Braves are on the hook for: does anyone know which applies for CBT purposes?

TimBrownUMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

I believe AAV is what counts for CBT purposes

NYYfaninLAAlandMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

Unfortunately the AAV resets for the Braves to the part of the contract they are responsible for, so their AAV hit is on the worst part of White’s deal, not the cheaper early years.

hughduffy
2 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

It doesn’t have a lot to do with getting below the luxury tax threshold. AA has consistently said that the luxury tax isn’t a limit: the real limit is how much their budget is for actual cash spending.

The Braves are not getting below the luxury tax threshold for 2024 – that’s $237M, and their estimated luxury tax payroll is $256M. They might get below the threshold in 2025, but we’ll see if that happens. Part of the Braves’s issue is that they get hit by the AAV of some of their long-term contracts, even though the actual spend for the year is less.

Team options don’t factor into the AAV of contracts unless they are actually exercised, though player options do.

This trade is all about getting a cheaper, controllable outfielder. Kelenic will be making the major league minimum this year, and will be arbitration eligible for next year. That’s savings for the next few years, even if Kelenic is just an average or even platoon outfielder with Grissom.

TKDCMember since 2016
2 years ago
Reply to  hughduffy

I don’t mean to be obtuse, but the actual cash costs would seemingly be the “actual limit” for every team, right?

hughduffy
2 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

Yes. But some teams do not want to pay luxury tax under any circumstance, and they treat the luxury tax threshold as a limit to their spending. AA has said that where it makes sense for the team to exceed the luxury tax threshold, it will.

Because the AAV of the contract is what counts for luxury tax purposes, the Braves end up having a luxury tax payroll number much higher than their actual payroll number for 2024. One of the side effects of extending younger players is that the extension causes the luxury tax payroll to increase considerably. For example, the payments to Strider, Harris, Murphy, and Lopez in 2024 will be $19M, but their luxury tax hit will be $43.67M.

darren
2 years ago

This outrage is a bit much and a bit premature. Let’s start with this:

At the very worst, he’s an average left fielder right now. Squint and you can see a poor man’s James Outman, maybe something better.

At the very worst? Last year he was worth 1.3 WAR in about 2/3 of a season, which is about average. Steamer projects him for 1.0 WAR in 441 PA, so below average. At worst, he’s a 4th OF. Median projection is probably around an average OF. In return for this, they have unloaded about $25 mil. in salary over the next two years. That’s a bit steep, but not the end of the world. They got back at least one interesting arm, so we’ll see.

And yes, it’s also too soon. This is Dipoto. He will make another 73 moves before the start of the season, so let’s see where it goes.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  darren

At worst? At worst, Kelenic is below replacement and a terrible defender and will have negative WAR.

I would be interested to see what the 20/80 percentile projections on him are. If Steamer is giving him 1.0 WAR, I wouldn’t be super surprised to see his 20th percentile around -0.5 and his 80th percentile around 2.5.

Lanidrac
2 years ago
Reply to  darren

Yeah, at the very least, they can replace Kelenic with a similar player in free agency and still easily come out ahead in payroll room to make upgrades elsewhere on the roster.

Last edited 2 years ago by Lanidrac
bluestragglerMember since 2016
2 years ago

“…and eventually missed two months with a broken foot, which he suffered a week after he turned 24.”

Weird not to mention how he managed to break said foot, which was kicking a water cooler in frustration over his own production. He was remorseful, and is a young dude who’ll learn, but attitude is an unneeded worry for a guy who simply can not stop striking out. The M’s like anyone need young cheap players with potential but I have to think they believe they can’t fix him. It doesn’t mean the Braves can’t. H*ck they probably will. He’ll have a lot less pressure in a diminished role there, too.

catmanwayne
2 years ago
Reply to  bluestraggler

Kelenic has been in the Mariners system for 5 years, and was given every opportunity to make the adjustments necessary to become a successful big leaguer in Seattle. It just never really materialized, and the one year he started to put stuff together he sabotaged himself because he lost control of his emotions.

68FCMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  bluestraggler

He really feels like a guy who will finally be able to put it together in a low pressure situation. He obviously is a guy who puts a ton of pressure on himself and gets in his own head, being the 7-8 hitter in an elite lineup will probably help him a lot compared to being in the heart of a perpetually struggling Mariners lineup. Also being on a team where he wasn’t a top prospect will help, he won’t have the superstar expectations in Atlanta that were perpetually looming over him in Seattle.

OddBall Herrera
2 years ago

For what it’s worth, when asked ChatGPT pretty resoundingly stated that it would rather be a guy who was traded for a pitcher with a 9 ERA than be the pitcher with a 9 ERA.

I am not sure I agree.

Not Cole Ragans
2 years ago

And a funnier piece of news: Rosenthal says the Braves won’t even keep Gonzales; if they can off-load, say, half that salary (whatever’s left of it, anyway), then my GOD.

fjtorres
2 years ago

Maybe the package him, White, the $4.5M, and a bit more for a low A project. 😎

The question really is who wants Marco and how badly.
(White has no great future in Atlanta but for all we know the Rays can fix him.)
Stranger things have happened.

Thing is, Kelenic may be just an average corner OF, but Atlanta doesn’t *need* anything else from him. A warm body with a glove is enough.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago

I suppose there are 28 other teams that could potentially want Gonzales, so it’s possible. They shouldn’t want him, but the Rockies only have three starting pitchers and the White Sox are slated for about 250 innings between Touissant and Soroka on Depth Charts.

MJA
2 years ago

I just can’t get worked up over a trade where all the Mariners in this trade to the Braves might not combine for 2 bWAR in 2024 because they didn’t in 2023.

If Kelenic didn’t have a hot April I think it would change how people view him as a player.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  MJA

From 5/1, he put up 0.2 WAR in 315 PA…with a .356 BABIP!!!

Another Old GuyMember since 2020
2 years ago

As the King of doing stupid things to get hurt, I can empathize with Dipoto’s water fountain injury, but apparently it had some long lasting effects on his processing!

The GuruMember since 2026
2 years ago

Kelenic is about to be a star with the braves once they show him what pitch is coming.

luchasaurus_rex
2 years ago
Reply to  The Guru

Get out of here with that “Braves are cheating” bullshit that has literally no proof. The only people who believe it are fans of poverty franchises who only have the failures of others to count as success

jb1205Member since 2022
2 years ago

Yeah, I haven’t seen any proof that they cheat. They condone and choreograph racist behavior, but they don’t cheat.

The GuruMember since 2026
2 years ago

There was more than one person that proved it this year on the interenet…both went viral.

jb1205Member since 2022
2 years ago
Reply to  The Guru

I want to believe it, but what does it even matter anymore?

luchasaurus_rex
2 years ago

It’s easy to laugh at the Mariners, but I’m pretty lukewarm on this deal for the Braves. Payroll isn’t infinite and they used what has to be a chunk of their remaining budget on a lottery ticket. Kelenic is young and was a highly-considered prospect at one point, but he’s also mostly stunk at the major league level. They could very well be looking to replace him by the deadline

Unless payroll really shot up, they now have fewer resources to add to the rotation and I still think they have a question mark in left

JayMember since 2023
2 years ago

“ Ken Rosenthal reports that the Braves intend to trade Gonzales to an as-yet-unnamed third destination. … That implies that Gonzales has positive trade value, even if Atlanta has to eat part of his 2024 salary.”

I don’t understand this passage. If Atlanta has to eat salary to move him, that would imply that Gonzales has *negative* trade value, correct?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  Jay

Correct. It implies that Gonzales is rosterable, which I think is highly debatable.

darren
2 years ago
Reply to  Jay

Yeah, I think it just means that he has some value as a player, but that value is lower than what his contract pays.

GarageCatMember since 2023
2 years ago
Reply to  Jay

It also depends on the return for Gonzales. As an extreme example, if the Braves were to get a 60 FV prospect in return for Gonzales and retaining half of his salary, that would still imply Gonzales has positive trade value.

(Obviously the return won’t be that high, but it illustrates the point)

formerly matt wMember since 2025
2 years ago
Reply to  GarageCat

As it turns out, not so much–they sent cash and the return is a PTNBL or cash.

That “or cash” confuses me a little–can the Pirates legally return less cash than the Braves sent them? Anyway the idea seems to be that Gonzales is rosterable for a team that has one other starting pitcher on the roster, which makes sense.

sourbob
2 years ago

If the Phillies weren’t in the same division, I could almost see a framework for a Gonzales/White/Ozuna for Castellanos trade. Philly would still have to add something. And maybe it’s too unappetizing–even as a bad contract swap–for either side.

TKDCMember since 2016
2 years ago
Reply to  sourbob

The Braves weathered both the PR hit and Ozuna’s poor play for two full years and then he became a home run hitting monster. They aren’t trading him now. They especially aren’t trading DHs with their closest divisional rival to end up with the worse DH.

nahMember since 2026
2 years ago
Reply to  sourbob

A random AAA player is likely to be a better baseball player than Castellanos, I’m not sure this makes sense for anyone.

jdbolickMember since 2024
2 years ago

Seattle only had two batters with positive WAR last season under the age of 26: Kelenic and Rodriguez. And it’s not like they have young hitting talent in the high minors ready to fill the gaps in the Major League roster.

Dipoto needs to leverage one or two of those young starting pitchers into a several cost-controlled batters or things will get very ugly very quickly.

Lanidrac
2 years ago
Reply to  jdbolick

Why do you need to be so restrictive with the age limit? Most guys 30 and under are still in their primes.

jdbolickMember since 2024
2 years ago
Reply to  Lanidrac

Because in the post-steroid era, a batter peaks in his early twenties and declines significantly after age 26. https://tht.fangraphs.com/aging-curves-revisited-damn-strikeouts/

zstam
2 years ago

I guess I’m in the minority that thinks this trade is basically a wash. Kelenic’s bat has some thump but I’m having trouble looking past the 31.7% K rate and .359 BABIP from last year, which is uncoincidentally the only season he’s been playable so far. I suppose he is only 24 and maybe the Braves can help him fix some of the holes in his swing, but they just took on $19.25 million in payroll in 2024 between White and Gonzales, and that’s $19.25 million less that they will be able to spend on free agents (assuming they don’t trade them away, which they might).

jdbolickMember since 2024
2 years ago
Reply to  zstam

There is a lot of variance in potential outcomes for Atlanta’s side of this deal, but Seattle clearly got worse unless they use the vacated salary space to bring in better players. Unfortunately, I suspect that ownership just wanted to cut payroll.

Joe Joe
2 years ago
Reply to  jdbolick

I don’t have much faith in Kelenic. If my team was given the opportunity to spend the money owed to White, Gonzalez, and Kelenic in free agency or acquire those three contracts/control in a teade for nothing, I would prefer they use the cash in free agency than acquire Kelenic.

This is the same trade whether not the money saved is being used as 5% of Ohtani’s salary or to fit a lower budget than fans want. If the owner doesn’t use the money saved on free agents, be mad about the owner having a low budget. The snide comments about this trade seem to be about the expected Mariners payroll, and not that the Mariners couldn’t get better players for the money owed White, Gonzalez, and Kelenic.

Last edited 2 years ago by Joe Joe
darren
2 years ago
Reply to  zstam

You’re not alone. This deal is probably fine.

dl80Member since 2026
2 years ago
Reply to  zstam

The problem isn’t so much losing Kelenic as it is that they now need at least 2 OF and 2+ IF just to be semi-competitive.

bookbookMember since 2024
2 years ago
Reply to  dl80

If they add 2 OF and a DH who are good enough, they can probably compete with the Urias/Crawford/Rojas/France/Raleigh infield.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  bookbook

Don’t forget Caballero, who was damn solid last year.

He, Urias, and Rojas should manage around 6 WAR across 1500 PA at 2B/3B, while also being able to spell Crawford.

dl80Member since 2026
2 years ago

I’m not a big fan of the no-power, decent fielding (not at SS) middle infielder type, but I suppose it’s possible. The problem is they really need more offense, and solid but not spectacular infield defense isn’t going to help them much.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  dl80

For sure – but I’m not sure whether Kelenic would have helped the offense much more than however they spend the $19.5M they’ve just saved, when his track record as a positive contributor solely consists of 101 PA last April.

Brandon Belt and Michael Brantley do a lot more for their outlook than Kelenic, White and Gonzales would.

Last edited 2 years ago by Cool Lester Smooth
Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  dl80

Aaron Hicks is another guy who’d be worth a flyer in this grim FA market, haha

Last edited 2 years ago by Cool Lester Smooth
sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  dl80

Two outfielders would probably put them close to where they were last year. The problem is that it’s hard to see where those outfielders come from if they don’t want to hire defensively limited, high-strikeout thumpers. Those are the guys available in free agency this year. I don’t think it makes a ton of sense to trade for Juan Soto either, and guys like Conforto or Tyler O’Neill have struggled lately.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I’d honestly spread it out among older guys.

$19.5m might get you Belt, Brantley, and Hicks?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago

I am not at all convinced Brantley is going to play again but for a cheap deal he might be worth the risk.

There are a lot of guys who are DH’s this time around like Turner, Martinez, and Belt. They could use one of those guys.

Assuming that Soler and Gurriel are too bad at defense and out of their price range I would gamble on some either Hicks or Duvall (or both if I could). I also think that Renfroe might be a good bounce back candidate. I am probably the most negative person on Renfroe most of the time but he might not cost anything and he will probably be better than last year.

So, maybe one DH and one corner outfielder? And then you pray either Canzone or Trammell figures something out? (They probably won’t). Or see if the Giants have soured on Conforto and just want him gone?

Lanidrac
2 years ago
Reply to  dl80

But they now have the money available to fill most if not all of those holes.

sandwiches4everMember since 2019
2 years ago

One thing I can see here for Atlanta: Kelenic has been absolutely dreadful for his career specifically in T-Mobile Park: .192/.268/.332 in exactly 500 PA. On the road, he hasn’t exactly lit the world on fire, but he’s much much closer to serviceable (.218/.300/.416 in 474 PA).

Maybe they think there’s something that makes him particularly ill-suited for that park, and he’d put up better numbers batting 8th or 9th in ATL.

hughduffy
2 years ago

Kelenic’s spray chart overlaid over Truist Park makes me think that as a left-handed pull hitter, he at least won’t see any negative effects from playing there.

StuSheaMember since 2025
2 years ago

I would hate to be a Mariners fan today.

marinercaseyMember since 2021
2 years ago
Reply to  StuShea

Mariners fan here – not feeling too bad today. I think Jerry has figured out what all his fans knew which is they weren’t going to compete with Rangers and Astros with the offensive supporting cast they had. So out has gone Teo, Suarez and Kelenic and will be interesting (and good fun) to watch him work with what should be some payroll flexibility and what he thinks can support the great core they have (up the middle and pitching) and take them to the next level in ’24. And hopefully not sell the farm doing it.

dl80Member since 2026
2 years ago
Reply to  marinercasey

I hate to burst your bubble, but I think he’s basically done. They were the most profitable team in baseball last year ($80m) and added nothing last offseason.

marinercaseyMember since 2021
2 years ago
Reply to  dl80

we’ll see – no doubt being a fan for me is being optimistic about what will happen. Think I read a quote from last night where Jerry said he expected final ’24 payroll to be higher than ’23 – that’s a fair chunk of spending and trading to still do to get there. But might have got that wrong or Jerry telling stories. My fear is they trade the farm for one year of Soto.

TerryMc
2 years ago
Reply to  dl80

Do people really believe that the M’s were the most profitable team in baseball in any year of their existence? This is like when the studios claim on paper that the Harry Potter movies lost money despite bringing in 900 million at the box office. For the M’s to be on the top of any list just means the big market teams did a better job of creative accounting.

Lanidrac
2 years ago

While trading Kelenic does make their team weaker today, doesn’t all the money they saved on the deal still put the Mariners in better position for the rest of the offseason? They can easily replace Kelenic in free agency and still have a bunch of money left over to help fill their other holes.

thornt25
2 years ago
Reply to  Lanidrac

Yes people freak out about salary dumps assuming that none of the savings will get spent elsewhere. Mariners’ 2023 opening day payroll was about $25m higher than the current projected 2024 payroll. If it’s not there or close to that by the end of the off season, then yeah sure complain.

synco
2 years ago

Counterpoint: Kelenic isn’t very good, and his floor is disastrous.

Last edited 2 years ago by synco
Dan B
2 years ago

The Mariners just dumped some contracts that had a negative value, and a player that should have similar value to Keston Hiura (who can’t be given away!) for basically nothing. Aside from Kelenic’s name brand, this is a bit of a nothing move.

Old Washington Senators FanMember since 2020
2 years ago

I’ll tell you, the Atlanta Braves must employ a hypnotist that joins in salary discussions for their stars well before they hit free agency and when they speak with other teams’ GM’s in trade discussions.

The Braves top stars consistently sign early and far, far, far below market value and they regular get other GM’s to trade good players to them for AAAA inventory and not-so-good players in return.

It must be nice to have such a capable, valuable employee.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
2 years ago

The Braves’ trick is going after guys who got small bonuses, and whose families aren’t wealthy, with VERY early extensions.

Folks here would have been calling Grady Sizemore an idiot going into the ‘09 season, if he had signed the same deal Acuna did.

That said…Albies’ agent should be banned.

Last edited 2 years ago by Cool Lester Smooth
airforce21oneMember since 2026
2 years ago

The Braves’ trick is going after guys who got small bonuses, and whose families aren’t wealthy, with VERY early extensions”

What percentage of baseball players come from wealthy families?

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  airforce21one

Is this a serious question, haha?

Amateur baseball’s financial obstacles in the US are very well-documented, including on this site.

We casually use the term “prep bat” to describe prospects!

dangledangleMember since 2024
2 years ago

Lol I posted in Chourio’s extension article about how few of these pre debut deals turn sour with White the only one I could think of. Free agency is pretty barren for hitters. I like the move for Atlanta but it’s not big deal unless he breaks out but I’m not a fan of of it just being about shaving a little off the payroll. I would get if it was some larger number but it’s not and let’s see what Atlanta eats for salary

asb123Member since 2024
2 years ago

I am kind of mildly annoyed at this trade just because I wanted Kelenic to work out, but this is a reddit/Twitter-level take. I’d say it’s at least as likely that Kelenic busts as that he breaks out. Even just signing Lee Jung-Hoo would instantly make this trade a huge win for the M’s.

bosoxforlifeMember since 2016
2 years ago

I cannot remember any trade in which one of the teams received less than the Mariners did in this deal. In the Battle of the Busts, Kowar loses by TKO in the 1st inning, and that’s saying something when you look at the minimal contributions that Kelenic has provided. Combine that with a player who has never made an appearance in any professional game and it adds up to a remarkably bizarre transaction.

RobertMember since 2017
2 years ago

I 100% guaranty they will not sign Ohtani and 95% that this is not a prelude to Soto. They’re squeezed badly by cheap ownership

Thatguy47
2 years ago

When White came out of Kentucky, he was a right-handed-hitting college first baseman whose best asset was his glove. In the pros, it became clear that there were holes in White’s swing that he did not have the power to live with. It was an obvious own goal to spend a first-round pick on that player, a mistake to extend him before he faced major league pitching, and now Dipoto is giving up a big league contributor in Kelenic, in order to get White’s relatively insignificant salary off the Mariners’ books. If there is solace to be had in this trade, it’s that with White off the roster, Dipoto can’t make a fourth mistake on him.

This site had White as the 62nd best prospect in baseball and a 50 FV prospect heading into the 2020 season, 3 years into his pro career and in the offseason in which he signed his extension. Why are you acting so smug when you, or your site’s other contributors, made the same mistakes on White? This is a consistent problem with the site. They support certain trades or deals then act as if they were stupid to begin with when they flop.

kingharbaughMember since 2021
2 years ago
Reply to  Thatguy47

The site’s writers don’t even use their site’s own metrics and projections. It’s such a funny thing to me. Take this article as an example. FanGraphs current projections all show Canzone to be slightly more valuable than Kelenic next year. Yet this is somehow supposed to be a move that is gonna kill this team? It’s so odd.

Lanidrac
2 years ago
Reply to  Thatguy47

Just because a guy is considered a Top 100 prospect doesn’t mean it’s a good idea to give the guy a modest MLB multiyear deal before he even makes the Majors. The Brewers just made the same mistake with Chourio.

airforce21oneMember since 2026
2 years ago
Reply to  Lanidrac

Yes, it makes a lot more sense to spend money on veteran players. Just look at what the Mets did last season, for example. Or the Padres….

AGCMember since 2025
2 years ago

Nice article, Mr. Baumann. Thanks for the great work.

Manco
2 years ago

Kelenic is fool’s fool’s gold. Looks like gold, then looks like fool’s gold, then we realized nope, he’s still the same turd we watched his rookie season, only with a rosy BABIP.

As for a salary dump, DiPoto was very creative. Moving away from dead weight using an up-season for Kelenic is delicate. Grabbing a flamethrowing nobody is exactly in Seattle’s know-how to transform this kid into a controllable starter.

Very curious about what they will do with this newfound flexibility. Even if they bring in some two-bit chumps to fill in on third base, I’m still content watching DiPoto think outside the box to improve this squad.

ehaltMember since 2016
2 years ago

Just popping into the comment section to say that Michael Baumann has the best title game in the business

JEdwardMember since 2016
2 years ago

Gotta think if you’re going after Ohtani, showing that you’re a penny pinching team willing to hurt its on-field product is probably not the best way to do so.