Mike Trout Is Now an Average Hall of Famer

(Photo: Ian D’Andrea)
The Angels have struggled recently, losing seven out of 10 games to the Twins, Astros, and Rays and falling from a tie atop the AL West to 3.5 games back. Over the weekend, though, Mike Trout did something special. While going 3-for-8 with a double, a pair of homers, and four walks in 12 plate appearances against Tampa Bay, he pushed his seasonal WAR (Baseball-Reference flavor) to 4.0 and his career WAR to 58.2. With that, he reached the JAWS standard for center fielders, the average of each Hall of Fame center fielder’s career WAR and his seven-year peak WAR.
Mike Trout is two-and-a-half months shy of his 27th birthday.
Mike Trout has played six full seasons and parts of two others — roughly a quarter apiece — in the majors.
Mike Trout has not played long enough to be eligible for the Hall of Fame.
Mike Trout is very, very, very good at baseball.
You probably knew most of the above, qualitatively if not down to the first decimal place, and after six-plus years of reading about his feats at the plate, on the bases and in the field, you might be somewhat jaded as to his exploits. Right now, he might not even the most popular Los Angeles Angel thanks to the virtually unprecedented two-way prowess of Shohei Ohtani, the Most Interesting Man in the World. Trout, aside from his baseball excellence and his earnest fascination with meteorology, is not that interesting, much to the chagrin of those who fret about Major League Baseball’s lack of a Lebron James-level Face of the Game.
While overshadowed by Ohtani, and briefly by Albert Pujols‘ pursuit of hit number 3,000, Trout is currently amid one of the best stretches of his career. His 188 wRC+ represents a career high, though it’s currently second in the AL to Mookie Betts‘ off-the-charts 214 mark. From his .294/.440/.632 line, only his slugging percentage represents a career high; that mark is fourth in the league, while his OBP is tops. Trout has led the AL in wRC+ in each of the past three years and in four of the past six, finishing no lower than third in the other two seasons. Indeed, he’s dominated the stat sheets: his 172 wRC+ since the start of 2012 is 11 points ahead of second-ranked Joey Votto and 18-points ahead of third-ranked Miguel Cabrera, while his 57.7 WAR (FanGraphs version) in that span is 22.0 more than second-ranked Josh Donaldson.
Despite differences in the underlying components and season-to-season values, Trout’s career WAR measures up nearly identically via the FanGraphs and Baseball-Reference flavors, with 58.4 of the former and 58.2 of the latter. Via the B-Ref version (which I’ll be using for the rest of this JAWS-flavored piece), he’s already 16th all-time among center fielders, ahead of nine of the 19 Hall of Famers including the BBWAA-elected Kirby Puckett (51.1) and about halfway between 17th-ranked Johnny Damon (56.4) and 15th-ranked Jim Edmonds (60.4). His seven-year peak score — again, without the benefit of seven full seasons — of 57.7 ranks fifth, trailing only Willie Mays (73.7), Ty Cobb (69.2), Mickey Mantle (64.8) and Tris Speaker (62.4). He’s eighth in JAWS:
| Rk | Player | Career WAR | Peak WAR | JAWS |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Willie Mays* | 156.4 | 73.7 | 115.0 |
| 2 | Ty Cobb* | 151.0 | 69.2 | 110.1 |
| 3 | Tris Speaker* | 134.1 | 62.4 | 98.2 |
| 4 | Mickey Mantle* | 110.3 | 64.8 | 87.6 |
| 5 | Ken Griffey* | 83.8 | 54.0 | 68.9 |
| 6 | Joe DiMaggio* | 78.1 | 51.0 | 64.5 |
| 7 | Duke Snider* | 66.3 | 49.9 | 58.1 |
| 8 | Mike Trout | 58.2 | 57.7 | 57.9 |
| Avg of 19 HOF CF | 71.2 | 44.6 | 57.9 | |
| 9 | Carlos Beltran | 69.8 | 44.4 | 57.1 |
| 10 | Kenny Lofton | 68.3 | 43.4 | 55.9 |
| 11 | Andruw Jones | 62.8 | 46.5 | 54.7 |
| 12 | Richie Ashburn* | 63.9 | 44.5 | 54.2 |
| 13 | Andre Dawson* | 64.8 | 42.7 | 53.7 |
| 14 | Billy Hamilton* | 63.4 | 42.7 | 53.0 |
| 15 | Jim Edmonds | 60.4 | 42.6 | 51.5 |
JAWS is the average of a player’s career WAR and his peak WAR (best seven seasons at large).
In this season alone, Trout has surpassed Jones, Lofton and Beltran in JAWS, and he’s likely to pass Snider by the end of the month. Overtaking DiMaggio eventually is an inevitability, but doing so this year is a tall order, as he would need another 6.6 WAR, bringing his line to 64.8/64.3/64.6. That would require a career-best 10.6 WAR for the season (his high is 10.5, set in 2012 and matched in 2016), and while he’s on pace for 13.8 over 162 games, it’s highly doubtful he can maintain that breakneck clip, mainly because there’s little in his career defensive numbers to suggest he’ll finish with 24 Defensive Runs Saved; he’s at 7 now, and his high of 19 was set in 2012, so regression in that area appears most likely.
Passing Griffey is an inevitability as well, but beyond this year, Trout’s climb up the list will be slower due to the large gaps between the metric’s elites at the position. Boosting his peak score is still doable, but the bar will be higher after this season, as his next two least valuable full seasons are of 6.7 and 7.6 WAR. Those are numbers that would put anyone in MVP consideration — and, in fact, the latter mark is from 2014, when Trout won his first award.
Even though we’re still in the first third of Trout’s age-26 season, he’s already third in WAR in among players at any position through that age:
| Rk | Player | WAR | Age | G |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | Ty Cobb* | 63.4 | 1905-1913 | 1143 |
| 2 | Mickey Mantle* | 61.4 | 1951-1958 | 1102 |
| 3 | Mike Trout | 58.2 | 2011-2018 | 971 |
| 4 | Rogers Hornsby* | 56.9 | 1915-1922 | 1012 |
| 5 | Alex Rodriguez | 55.2 | 1994-2002 | 1114 |
| 6 | Jimmie Foxx* | 54.2 | 1925-1934 | 1109 |
| 7 | Mel Ott* | 51.3 | 1926-1935 | 1288 |
| 8 | Ken Griffey* | 50.0 | 1989-1996 | 1057 |
| 9 | Tris Speaker* | 48.7 | 1907-1914 | 915 |
| 10 | Arky Vaughan* | 48.0 | 1932-1938 | 997 |
| 11 | Hank Aaron* | 46.6 | 1954-1960 | 1039 |
| 12 | Frank Robinson* | 46.2 | 1956-1962 | 1050 |
| 13 | Albert Pujols | 46.1 | 2001-2006 | 933 |
| 14 | Eddie Collins* | 45.9 | 1906-1913 | 861 |
| 15 | Eddie Mathews* | 45.5 | 1952-1958 | 1029 |
| 16 | Al Kaline* | 44.5 | 1953-1961 | 1204 |
| 17 | Rickey Henderson* | 44.1 | 1979-1985 | 934 |
| 18 | Babe Ruth* | 44.0 | 1914-1921 | 685 |
| 19 | Johnny Bench* | 43.3 | 1967-1974 | 1094 |
| 20 | Joe DiMaggio* | 42.6 | 1936-1941 | 825 |
Climbing to first place on the list would only require Trout to finish the season with 9.3 WAR, and if he does that, he’ll have reached the top in fewer games. That said, he’s already held the lead on age-base lists like this, with Cobb the only other player to top him since age 21:
| Age | Trout | Cobb |
|---|---|---|
| 21 | 20.1 | 15.7 |
| 22 | 27.7 | 25.6 |
| 23 | 37.0 | 36.2 |
| 24 | 47.5 | 46.9 |
| 25 | 54.2 | 56.0 |
| 26 | 58.2 | 63.4 |
Cobb was third at age 21, behind Ott (17.9), but after that, it’s been a two-horse race. Mays’ military service, which cost him all but 34 games of his age-21 season and all of his age-22 season, prevents him from making a major splash in this context.
Having tracked the incremental progress of many active and recently retired players towards the JAWS standards at each position, Trout appears to have gotten there the fastest — among 21st century players, that is. Mind you, I’m figuring this out based upon the current edition of JAWS, which switched from Baseball Prospectus’ WARP to B-Ref’s WAR in 2012; WAR has since undergone some tweaks, most notably when the two versions were placed on the same scale in 2013.
By current calculations, Rodriguez would have reached the shortstop standard — he’s classified there since that’s the position where he accumulated the most value — sometime during his age-26 season, in 2002. A-Rod finished that season at 55.2 career WAR, 55.9 peak WAR (his first two cups of coffee had produced -0.7 WAR) and 55.6 JAWS. That’s a few hairs higher than the current shortstop standard of 55.0, which has risen with the elections of Cal Ripken (2007, 76.1 JAWS), Barry Larkin (2012, 56.9), and Alan Trammell (2018, 57.8); without those three, the standard circa 2002 would have been 53.5, a mark he would have reached when he accumulated 6.8 WAR in what ended up as an 8.8 WAR season.
Comparing a few other recent players, Pujols reached the first-base standard (54.7 now, but 53.6 at the time, before Frank Thomas, Jeff Bagwell, and Jim Thome were elected) in 2007, his age-27 season; with no cup-of-coffee seasons on his resumé, he finished that year at 54.9/54.9/54.9.
Griffey reached the center-field standard (57.9 now, 59.1 at the time, before Kirby Puckett and Andre Dawson were elected) in his age-28 season, 1998. Barry Bonds reached the left field standard (53.5 now, 52.4 at the time, before Rickey Henderson and Tim Raines were elected), in his age-28 season, 1993. Ripken reached the shortstop standard (53.5 circa 1990, before Phil Rizzuto, Robin Yount, Ozzie Smith, Larkin and Trammell were elected) late in his age-29 season, 1990.
Going even further back, Johnny Bench reached the catcher standard (44.0 now, 39.1 then, before seven of the 15 enshrined catchers were elected, including all of the top five) in his age-26 season, 1974. Bench would have needed to reach 3.5 WAR in a season where he finished with 7.9, so likely somewhere closer to the halfway point than Trout. As noted, though, that’s a much smaller player pool for comparison. Mike Schmidt reached the third-base standard in his age-27 season, 1977, but at that point only four third basemen (Frank Baker, Jimmy Collins, Freddie Lindstrom and Pie Traynor) had been enshrined, and they’re now four of the lowest six in the JAWS rankings. You can only go back so far with this method before it falls apart.
That shouldn’t detract from how remarkable Trout’s latest accomplishment is. We are witnessing a player who is already fully qualified for the Hall of Fame save for the 10-season requirement, which he’ll reach on Opening Day 2020. (For Hall purposes, one game equals one season.) By the time he’s 30 years old, we’ll be talking about how inner-circle he is. Enjoy the ride.
Brooklyn-based Jay Jaffe is a senior writer for FanGraphs, the author of The Cooperstown Casebook (Thomas Dunne Books, 2017) and the creator of the JAWS (Jaffe WAR Score) metric for Hall of Fame analysis. He founded the Futility Infielder website (2001), was a columnist for Baseball Prospectus (2005-2012) and a contributing writer for Sports Illustrated (2012-2018). He has been a recurring guest on MLB Network and a member of the BBWAA since 2011, and a Hall of Fame voter since 2021. Follow him on BlueSky @jayjaffe.bsky.social.
your photo caption game is on fleek
Trout is a marvel and has a chance to be in the top 5 or 10 players ever, But that will be determined as much by how he ends his career as much as how he started it. Let’s hope its more Hank Aaron than Ken Griffey Jr.
Aaron’s game picked up steam due to the move from Milwaukee to Atlanta starting in 1966. His power surge was an aberration. Were it not for that, Aaron’s career path would have mirrored every other hitter in history (other than Barry Bonds, and we know about that one). But I get your drift-not falling off a cliff like Junior while simply achieving normal regression will put Trout among that Top 5-10 level, if not even higher.
Bench crushed it in the second half of 1974 (.928 OPS compared to .831 in first half), so he doubtlessly didn’t reach the standard as quickly into his age-26 season as Trout did.
However, this depends on how you define things. Bench turned 27 in December following the 1974 season. So by pure age, he was certainly younger when he reached this milestone.
FYI the Ken Griffey links go to Sr. and not Jr. who I suspect was the intended target.
Can’t he not pick up any more DRS and still reasonably finish well over 11 WAR if his offensive pace continues? I don’t see why it wouldn’t, since he’s done it for 162~ games now, dating back to the start of last season. He’s been worth 10.7 bWAR over 161 games in that span.
He has a promising future
Whoa, let’s not jump the gun! Let it play out!
Sure it’s unlikely, but would it really be a surprise if Trout set a new DRS career high at age 27? Not telling anyone here anything they don’t already know, but Trout isn’t just good because he’s good. He’s good because he is amazing at closing holes in his game. We’ve seen it already at the plate; why not the field?
He’s probably a bit slower than he was 2-3 years ago, but if he’s worked on his route-running (in 2016 his routes were clearly more efficient coming in than going out) and/or adjusted his positioning in response to any route-running shortcomings, it’s entirely believable he’d get better. The fact that he’s on pace for a career high in out of zone plays suggests he might be improving in exactly that way.
Yeah, I’m not too skeptical, either. His sprint speed remains in the 95th percentile and within the top 3rd of all center fielders and his arm has definitely improved since his 19 DRS rookie season. His body hasn’t aged at all so if his routes really are improved and he’s more aggressive coming in on balls than he has been in past seasons, he could have a big defensive WAR.
Age 24 – 29.6 ft/sec
Age 25 – 28.9
Age 26 – 29.3
Age 27- 29.3
(I agree with you, just showing the numbers)
Note to self: never assume Mike Trout is getting worse at anything.
My point had less to do with Trout “getting worse” and more to do with the nature of small-sample defensive stats and regression.
Oh I know. I was just realizing that as I read the piece, my initial reaction was “No way, Trout can totally one-up himself defensively!” and then I was working backward to justify that thought with something more than “He’s Mike Trout!”
To put it in perspective, since Trout’s debut, there has been six CFs with 20+ DRS. Exactly one per season.
Trout is awesome, but Kiermaier, Buxton, Hamilton, Pillar, etc. almost surely have higher true talent level when it comes to defense.
While it is certainly possible Trout has better numbers than a couple of them, yes, it would be highly surprising if he surpassed all of them.
He is currently 7th in MLB with 4 Outs Above Average, too. Last season he was 156th in MLB with -3 OAA. 134th the year before (-2).
It’s like Votto’s the professor and Trout’s the valedictorian.
How much does Aaron Nola charge for #27 after Trout eventually signs with the Phillies for $400 million?
Trout is 6’3, 235. Betts is 5’9, 180. Anyone else smell something fishy? I can see Betts slugging homers a bit more than Pedroia and Altuve, but leading the world? Without PEDs? Puh-lease. Like Ortiz having his best year…at 40, when he’s fat and has notoriously bad feet. Leading all the young bucks of baseball, like Trout and Harper, in doubles no less, but also OPS and RBI. C’mon, pre-PED history tells us players decline in their thirties, not get better. And 5’9, 180 guys don’t lead the world in HRs. Except in the PED era.
I’d like to see a downvoter come up with an intelligent counter-argument as to why Ortiz had a monster year at 40, which basically only Bonds did, or how many 5’9, 180 players have led the world in HRs. I can buy Betts’ high average. It’s the HRs that are beyond suspicious.
Ortiz has literally nothing to do at all with Betts so I don’t know why you’re trying to conflate the two somehow. You can’t come up with an intelligent counter-argument to a non-argument. You’re just asserting that because Betts is 5’9 he can’t lead in home runs. That’s not an argument.
And also, “suspicious and cynical” != smart. If you have evidence, actual evidence, then present it. And not here, to us, but to a baseball commission so they can investigate. Otherwise stop making sounds, please. Thanks.
Your comment isn’t true until a “downvoter” proves it wrong.
I’d like to see YOU come up with an intelligent argument for you your own claim. Then maybe you’ll get an intelligent response.
Jim Wynn was 5’10, 160 pounds, and playing in a pitcher’s era. He hit 291 HR, including consecutive seasons of 37, 26, 33 and 27 in his age 25-28 years. In 1967 he was second in the league. It’s possible for Betts to perform at this level without enhancements
I guess that’s why he was the TOY Cannon and not just the Cannon!
This is the sports website equivalent of standing on a street corner ranting about jet fuel and steel beams and shouting “Debate me! Prove me wrong!” at passers by.
Willie Mays, 5’10, 170. Close enough. Buh bye.
There is zero chance that a person like you would consider anything other than your own beliefs, so no one should bother trying.
I assume you are also calling out Ozzie Albies as well.
You’re claiming Betts power surge means something after 26% of the season? He’s never hit more than 31, and he hit 24 last year. Lots of guys have gone on runs over 43 games, short or tall. Oh..Hack Wilson hit 156 dingers over a 4-year period. Led the world in home runs. And he was all of 5’6″ and 190, and (unless you’re counting bourbon) didn’t have any PED’s. All you have is that Mookie’s been on a tear for 43 games. And with such a small sample size, that’s merely an outlier.
Check out Mays or Mantle or Aaron— they were not big guys.
To be fair Mantle was indeed a big guy for his time.
Actually Aaron had also had some fantastic years in his late 30s.
Age 38: 147 OPS+
Age 39: 301/402/643 177OPS+
Age 40: 268/341/491 128 OPS+
Age 41: 95 OPS+
Age 42: 102 OPS+ in final season.
So hardly unyeard of for inner circle guys.
And your Betts thing doesn’t even deserve to be refuted.
Joe Morgan. Mel Ott. There have been many small players who hit for power
Make that same argument about Hank fucking Aaron then, because after declining gradually from ages 30-36, he suddenly went apeshit from ages 37-41, and I’m sure it’s just a coincidence that half of his teammates were also posting career best power numbers. Davey fuckng Johnson hit 40 HR one of those years.
Oh, and Tom House caught Hank’s record breaking HR ball. House is well known for his public admission that steroids were prevalent throughout MLB in the late 60s-early 70s.
5’9″ 170 pound Mel Ott has 511 career home runs…you’re dismissed.
I’m looking forward to RWinUT explaining 5’9, 165-lb Jose Ramirez, too. And 5’9, 160-lb Ozzie Albies.
Little guys with elite contact skills are severely underrated, especially in a live-ball environment.
Did you forget Altuve?
Well, Altuve has 2 homers while the other three have 13 or more homers. So it’s less relevant to a discussion about little guys getting homers, but he definitely fits the second part of my statement.
I completely disagree with the PED argument, but you have to be kidding yourself if you think Jose Ramirez weights 165 lbs.
1) sample size
2) Fenway Park
3) strength of schedule
4) solid contact ability
As a Yankees fan who watched Didi set the world on fire in April, I strongly advise you take the wait-and-see-approach here.
Didi is not in the same planet as Betts.
He literally is.
Go check out who the all time leader in single-season RBI’s is (hint: he was also the all-time National League leader in single-season home runs until McGwire and Sosa came along), and then go and check out how tall he was, and get back to me.
Pfft, Hack Wilson was obviously abusing Mr. Burns’ Brain & Nerve Tonic. His decline in the ‘30s was largely due to a bad case of Gigantism.
“Trout is 6’3, 235. Betts is 5’9, 180. Anyone else smell something fishy?”
Yes, clearly someone is taking height and weight from Betts and giving it to Trout. There should be a little weight loss from the entropy in the system so I presume they were both supposed to be six feet and two-twenty.
The only thing “fishy” about Mookie Betts season so far is his 21.7% HR/FB rate. I’m more concerned about regression towards the mean than I am about the possibility of him using PED’s.
Damn, you’re an idiot 1st class. My 1st hero/idol, Willie Mays was 5’10” and 180 soaking wet. Betts is just a phenomenal athlete. A great bowler, and a great guy, and representative of MLB, as is Trout.
You know squat about baseball, fool.
It has to be all the strength in his right arm from the fact Betts is a tremendous bowler.
Pretty sure they don’t use a weight scale when they perform PED tests. If he used PEDs, he’d weigh more than 180 lbs anyway.
This will be unpopular, but I think Trout is going to go down as the least memorable HoFer of all time. Despite being one of the best players to ever play the game, he has done a terrible job at selling himself to the wider public, so he remains relatively unknown to the vast majority of Americans.
It’s a shame and you just know many at the commissioner’s office would love if they could transplant Trout’s talent into a player that actually has a personality and an interest in selling theirself to the wider public.
I don’t remember Eddie Murray’s prime, but I think he is a pretty unmemorable HOFer. Steady Eddie never put up any monster years despite putting up very impressive totals. Recently, Cal Ripken Jr. came into a restaurant I work at. None of the other employees recognized him, but all of them knew his name. If it were Eddie Murray, I doubt I would recognize him, and I doubt anyone would remember his name.
I think you probably meant, “less recognizable than a typical inner circle HOFer.” And you might be right.
Think you’re on the right track. There are lots of borderline, lesser, whatever HoFers I’d not recognize like Paul Molitor, Eddie Murray, Jim Rice, etc. Pretty sure most people would recognize the Ruths, Mantles, etc. of the world.
My answer to that is that the number of non-baseball fans who actually have heard of most hall of famers is not that high. It obviously depends how much you care about sports at all, but I’m going to go out on a limb and guess that most of my friends don’t know who Craig Biggio is.
I love big personalities in sports, but for some reason I do find Trout’s normal guy persona kind of fun. Anyway, my point is, the fact that he might be the best player of all time is the memorable part. Maybe the whole world won’t know his name, but every baseball fan will.
Biggio is a perfect example of why this is such a hot take.
Even as someone who’s all time favorite baseball player is Biggio, In my later years, if I succumb to dementia, I bet I’ll forget Biggio before Trout.
Least memorable? Guy’s got 2 MVP awards and a highlight reel that could play for days. Ask somebody who’s not a massive baseball history buff about Jake Beckley or Bobby Wallace, or try to find footage of them.
He has two MVPs and probably should have had at least four.
I’m pretty sure you’re trolling – because how many of the 300+ HOFers can you even name right now? Talk about unmemorable – if you can’t even name them!
Trout is young. He’s technically not even in his prime. He still has plenty of time to have a signature moment. If he / Ohtani can lead the Angels to the World Series – maybe even multiple times – over the next few years… playing on the biggest stage never hurts in the memorable category.
I’m pretty sure that I could name every member of the BBHOF off the top of my head (other than the umpires, a few of the owners, and the 2006 Negro League committee inductees other than Biz Mackey, Luis Santop, Cum Posey, Mule Suttles, and Cristobal Torriente).
The thing is, plenty of those people got into the Hall of Fame largely because of their personality and off-the-field talents. Dizzy Dean doesn’t have a Hall of Famer’s statline, but he was probably the single most famous pitcher to have ever lived at his peak, and that type of personality goes a long way. Ditto guys like Rabbit Maranville, Phil Rizzuto, Rube Waddell, and Yogi Berra, who are remembered just as much for their personality, if not more, than for their actual production.
Let’s take a look at the top 15 position players in career WAR as a kind of proxy for “inner circle” Hall of Famers. Of those 15, Bonds, Cobb, Williams, Hornsby, and ARod were known as being notoriously “difficult” personalities. Ruth and Mantle were notorious partiers. Mays was famously personable; Speaker was ferociously competitive; and Collins was famously cerebral and analytical. Gehrig, Musial, and Aaron were intelligent and articulate while being polite and reserved.
Of those top 15 position players in career WAR, only two really seemed to have the same type of personality as Trout: Mel Ott and Honus Wagner were both very shy. And Honus Wagner is the only one of the top 5 players of all time whom most non-baseball fans probably have never heard of (outside of his tobacco card, anyway), while I’d be willing to bet you had no idea Mel Ott was one of the top 15 position players in career WAR until I just told you he was. A big personality goes along with big numbers in keeping a player in the public consciousness.
“I’m pretty sure that I could name every member of the BBHOF off the top of my head”
LOL. this might be the most idiotic comment ever on any baseball website.
I mean, if it’s true, it certainly doesn’t represent the average person, re: Mike Trout’s status as memorable or not (VERY CLEARLY MEMORABLE IMO)
I spent fifteen years studying and writing about pre-war baseball, from Levi Meyerle to King Kong Keller. Writing about Frankie Frisch’s favoritism on the Veterans’ Committee, and writing about 19th Century baseball. Writing about why Chick Hafey is actually a deserving Hall of Famer whose career was derailed by the advent of night baseball; writing about why Sam Rice’s personal tragedy maybe kept him from being the all-time career hits leader; writing about exactly how badly Carl Hubbell’s screwball and Ed Walsh’s spitball caused them arm damage that interfered with the rest of their lives after they retired.
I’m a bit weaker on my knowledge of baseball after about 1960 or so, but there are few enough Hall of Famers who played in that period that I’m at least aware of all of them (although I know next to nothing about the careers of guys like Tony Perez, Jim Rice, or Don Sutton). But if you want to talk about the relative merits of Roger Connor versus Dan Brouthers; or why exactly Tommy McCarthy is in the Hall of Fame despite his terrible stats; or how Ray Schalk got his reputation as the “good” Black Sox player, I’m your man.
When you include Yogi Berra on your list of questionable HOF’ers i think you lost what little credibility you had with every knowledgeable baseball fan here. 3 time MVP, second twice, and one of the greatest of all time.
I didn’t include Yogi Berra on a list of questionable Hall of Famers. I included him on a list of people who are remembered more for their personality than their production. In my view Berra is maybe the second or third best catcher ever.
I also don’t consider Rabbit Maranville a questionable Hall of Famer, by the way — in my view he’s every bit as deserving as Ozzie Smith.
And also the inclusion of Rube Waddell on that list should have made it clear that I wasn’t make a list of questionable Hall of Famers — Rube Waddell is one of the absolute best pitchers ever, up there with Dazzy Vance and Nolan Ryan in terms of being a strikeout rate outlier for his era.
Unfortunately, not all stats are tracked. I bet Trout is the all-time leader by age and playing time for the number of autographs given to kids. Every game he signs stuff. You might not find his generosity and good sportsmanship memorable, but the upcoming generation will.
If your comment is about Trout’s personality, I am old enough to remember Michael Jordan in his prime. That dude was the most boring person off the court. He never said anything that wasn’t straight out of the athlete’s book of cliches. He didn’t have an engaging personality. If he had a good sense of humor, he kept it private. He was polite and maintained a dignity, but he was the most boring interview one could imagine. Jordan’s popularity was entirely based on his athleticism. He did things on the basketball court that no one else could do – in spite of the fact that he was surrounded by other freakish athletes. I submit the same can be said for LeBron James. One of the reasons Jordan and James have made so much money on endorsements is that they lead rather boring lives. They never tested positive for PEDs; they never got into drunken brawls or were popped for DUI; they never said anything controversial; they never dated Madonna; they never had their wives attack them with a golf club after discovering their serial adultery with porn starts and while they were driving under the influence of enough Ambien to kill a horse – an episode which is the only thing that made Tiger Woods anything else than a sleep-inducing bore when he wasn’t on a golf course.
Basketball is a much easier sport for fans to understand and it showcases athleticism far better than baseball does. And basketball also appeals to a far greater segment of the population than baseball does now. Your gripe is with the game of baseball, not Mike Trout.
I feel like those are pretty bad examples. Jordan, boring? The guy was a trash-talker, hyper competitive chronic gambler, who was possibly suspended from the league due to his gambling and went to play baseball for a year. Lebron is outspoken politically and had a TV special about himself choosing to leave the Cavs. Mike Trout … is a fan of meteorology.
I agree with pretty much everything you say here except LeBron James. First, the guy is very charismatic off the court and has stuck his neck out on significant issues. Second, he hasn’t played it safe. Left Cleveland with the ridiculous event that announced his signing with Miami. Then he had the balls and courage to go back to Cleveland. He takes risks. He messes up. He apologizes when warranted. He’s not boring at all. And I’m saying this not as an Ohioan or having any special affinity to the Cavs or LeBron. I watched the guy for years and my admiration for him has grown as he’s grown.
The same Michael Jordan who was in Space Jam or are we talking about different people? Everyone on the planet knew who Michael Jordan was.
You must be assuming Joe Mauer isn’t going to get in.
Idiot !!!
Trout would be better known to the wider public if he played in New York.
I think you’re confusing him being unmemorable with some of us being complacent to his greatness.
Stan Musial had to be added to the All Century Team by the Commissioner’s Blue Ribbon Panel. A top 10 player all time and he had to be added to an All Century Team. Everyone in St. Louis would know Stan instantly but outside of the Midwest he was almost unknown.
Who cares?
Mike Trout is currently in 30th place all-time in WAR accumulated through age 30.
Pfft, through age 30! Wait, he’s how old?
In 1977, there were only 4 HOF 3bers? I immediately checked to see if Eddie Mathews was overlooked, but no, he had to wait until 1978, his 5 year on the ballot. And Brooks Robinson was still active. Why did Mathews have to wait? I guess his BA is low at .271, and he had only 2315 hits. Come to think of it, a player today with those numbers might not be first ballot either.
I wrote about this at length in The Cooperstown Casebook — the voters have always had a hard time figuring out how to evaluate 3B. That Mathews, who IIRC was 2nd in NL history in HR (to Ott, before Mays and Aaron passed him) needed five years on the ballot is ridiculous.
In the 1969 MLB commissioned a poll to name the great players of all time. The BBWAA was tasked to create two teams: The Greatest Team and the Greatest Living Team. At third base they elected the same three players for BOTH teams:
Pie Traynor
Brooks Robinson
Jackie Robinson
Jackie Robinson played just 256 games at third base, all in his decline years. This was simply a ridiculous selection. Eddie Matthews had just retired in 1968. I understand that batting average was still king in the 1960’s but Jackie’s election at third base was absurd given that he also was named at second base. Jay Jaffe is 100% correct. Third base is an odd position. And through 1969 only three first basemen had been elected to the Hall of Fame (Pie Traynor, Home Run Baker, and Jimmy Collins). Matthews should have easily been elected to at least the Greatest Living Team. Shoot, Frank Baker would have been a far better selection than Jackie Robinson to the Greatest Team.
The “of Anaheim” was quietly dropped from after the Los Angeles Angels a year or two ago.
Yet they still continue to play in Anaheim.
As of this year I will be calling them the Ohtaniheim Angels.
If a player misses a whole season due to injury, does that count toward their ten years? Like, if Mike Trout were abducted by aliens for all of 2019 and then played a game in 2020 is he at 9 or 10 years?
He’d be at nine years in that case.
Thanks!
Speaking of injury:
“Mike Trout has played six full seasons and parts of two others — roughly a quarter apiece — in the majors.”
He missed about 30% of the season last year, so he’s in effect played about six full seasons and one quarter of another. The missed time last year is why, as shown in the third table, he’s only second all-time in WAR through his age 25 season. The injury made the difference.
Average? You shut your filthy mouth.
OMFG Willy Mays. And you know, I knew he was drafted but I hadn’t put together what his early career might have looked like without that.
Mays playing ball on Fort Eustis must have been something to see. Complete domination.
The funny thing about baseball is, his team could still plausibly lose, since all he can do is hit one HR/PA and field half the outfield…. Though actually at this level he’d be an ace pitcher and might rack up more value that way.
Though the same thing you did, good lord Willie Mays.
I can tell you. Add 80 HR’s to his 660. I was born in 1942 and lived within TV reach of NY. The Giants won the pennant in both 1951 and 1954, Willie’s first two seasons. His 1954 campaign compares with the best any player has ever had. Baseball dominated the country back then and Willie, Mickey and The Duke playing in the same city. The debates got a wee bit testy over who was the best. It was great.
Yeah I’d love to see the career numbers of Mays and Ted Williams without missing time due totheir military service. Sure, it’s easy enough to extrapolate, but that’s less fun than if they had actually played those years.
Manny Machado & Bryce Harper are about to get paid somewhere in the neighborhood of 750 million buckaroos. Mike Trout has more WAR than both of them combined.
Told you he’s just an average player.
Anyone else do a literal double take upon seeing Billy Hamilton’s name on the JAWS leaderboard? I guess I should be more aware of my 1890s baseball history…
I’m not happy that Billy Hamilton sniffed this article. Maybe if he could steal first base…
Only time you’ll see “Mike Trout” and “average” in the same sentence without the word “not” between them.
Or “has an excellent batting”
Fast-forward to discussion in the year 2040:
“Trout was better than DiMaggio! Look at the numbers!”
“Yeah, but DiMaggio lost three years of his prime because of World War Two!”
“Well, Trout lost four years to World War Three!”
Um, it would be “All of MLB and civilization lost all their years to WWIII”.
“Mike Trout would be greatest of all time if we weren’t all killed in a nuclear explosion and weren’t ghosts now”
I always figured that the wars of the future would be fought by robots, and Mike Trout’s job was to build and maintain those robots.
No snark intended at all, but I’m having trouble making sense of this:
Trout’s career WAR measures up nearly identically via the FanGraphs and Baseball-Reference flavors, with 58.4 of the former and 58.2 of the latter. Via the B-Ref version (which I’ll be using for the rest of this JAWS-flavored piece), he’s already 16th all-time among center fielders, ahead of nine of the 19 Hall of Famers including the BBWAA-elected Kirby Puckett (51.1) and about halfway between 17th-ranked Johnny Damon (56.4) and 15th-ranked Jim Edmonds (50.4).
58.4 (or 58.2) is halfway in between 56.4 and 50.4?
I see that in B-Ref WAR, #s 15-17 are indeed Edmonds, Trout, Damon (and yes, he’s about halfway between them). But what are the 56.4 and 50.4 numbers?
It’s a typo. His 58.4 bWAR IS halfway between Damon and Edmonds, but Edmonds has 60.4 WAR, not 50.4.
Edmonds should be 60.4
Trout is going into the HOF unless something drastic happens. I wonder where he’ll play after he hits free agency after next season. I’ll preview it on my popular site baseballanalyzed.com
Does the preview just say “Mike Trout will not hit free agency after next season. Mike Trout’s current contract runs through the 2020 season”?
The best article WriterNeilR ever wrote!
I might just visit that site to see what a colossal trainwreck it actually is. I will do so in Incognito mode of course, but I still might.
I’m curious what you think “popular” means.
Considering Trout isn’t hitting free agency until the end of the 2020 season, not the end of next season (2019), I really question the quality of the baseball analyses you’ll have on your “popular” site.
Being fully aware of how great Trout is, I have unfortunately become quite immune to these “Trout is awesome” tidbits.
So after reading Trout’s JAWS score is average among HoF CF’s, my first reaction was pretty lukewarm.
And then…
I realized that JAWS’ peak score comprises seven seasons, not six.
Oh man… oh man…
That Willie Mays peak WAR though…
I wonder if we, some of us, are ho hum to what he’s doing because we can watch him everyday. DiMaggio, Mantle, Mays, even Griffey, we didn’t have MLB network packages. We maybe got the Sporting News with a weeks worth of box scores at a time. Is being able to hear about him/see him all the time making us not appreciate him? Don’t get me wrong, I think anyone who visits this site understands and appreciates what we are lucky enough to witness, I’m talking the casual fan that reads the morning boxscores.
I discovered junior via baseball cards. I lived in the east coast and didn’t have cable. Saw Jr during the all star game and in commercials but I was young enough to not follow the commentators talking about how he could be the next willie mays.
I was old enough to sift through stats on the backs of baseball cards though, and griffey was an obvious “one of these things is not like the others” and I remember grabbing packages each year hoping for an update on his career numbers.
The fact that I can track not just trout but literally all players career every day is amazing.
did Jay Jaffe help develop WAR?
My favorite thing I learned from this article is that Billy Hamilton is not even MLB’s fastest ever Billy Hamilton!
If only Trout didn’t play for the Angels.