Mike Trout: Top-Ten Outfield
It’s not so much that we’re in the offseason’s dead period — we’re just in its waiting period. There’s a lot of life left, but there likely won’t be any breaths until we get to Masahiro Tanaka’s signing deadline, at which point several dominoes ought to fall. That’s two and a half weeks away, and for the time being there’s not much going on. Dave and Carson talked on the podcast about how the things being written about these days are Tanaka and the Hall of Fame. As a change of pace out of desperation, I’m choosing to turn to the comfortable default FanGraphs fallback, that being Mike Trout, and how very good he is.
This is a question from my own chat earlier Tuesday:
Comment From Eddie
How many MLB outfields post less value than Mike Trout in 2014? Have to think the Cubs are on that list.
I was in love with the idea right away, and below, my subsequent investigation. I’d like to thank Eddie for the prompt, and for giving me another reason to re-visit Mike Trout’s unparalleled player page. Obviously, we can’t know anything yet about how the coming season is going to go. But we do have complicated mathematical guesses, which I’m happy to depend on for these purposes. By WAR, how many outfields does Mike Trout project to out-produce on his own during the 2014 regular season?
Our projection system of choice will be Steamer, because ZiPS hasn’t fully rolled out yet. Also, there aren’t massive differences between Steamer and ZiPS anyway. As you can see on Trout’s player page, Steamer projects Trout for 684 plate appearances over 146 games, and 9.0 WAR. Oliver actually projects more WAR in less time, and Trout reached double digits the last two years, but we’ll stay conservative, where by “conservative” I mean the system that thinks one player will be worth nine wins above replacement. There’s our line.
The harder part is figuring out projected combined outfield WAR, but this, actually, is also simple, and only harder relative to glancing at Trout’s FanGraphs page. Here are position by position and team by team projected WAR totals for 2014. Steamer is the system used, and the depth charts used are created by a small handful of FanGraphs authors. So the only thing to do is, for each team, add up LF WAR and CF WAR and RF WAR. Of course, the depth charts aren’t perfect, because they’re manually generated, but they’re not going to completely miss on a team, so they convey the right ideas. We have all the data we need for Trout. We have all the data we need for team-by-team outfield projections. Here’s the resulting graph, with the Angels eliminated and Trout inserted as a substitute:
The top ten (eleven) projected outfields:
- Pirates
- Dodgers
- Cardinals
- Brewers
- Athletics
- Braves (t)
- Blue Jays (t)
- Mike Trout
- Royals
- Rays (t)
- Indians (t)
Mike Trout is projected for 9 WAR. Seven outfields are projected for more than that, meaning 22 outfields are projected for less than that. It’s not literally true that Mike Trout would be a top-ten outfield on his own — that would actually be a catastrophe — but a top-ten projected outfield could realistically feature Trout flanked by a pair of replacement-level corners. Say, Delmon Young and Jeff Francoeur. How do you turn Young and Francoeur into a top-ten outfield? Put Mike Trout in between them and you’ve got a better unit than the Nationals. And Giants, and Indians, and so many others. Look at the far right side. The Cubs and White Sox are currently tied for last, at 4.5 projected outfield WAR each. Mike Trout is projected for as much outfield WAR as the city of Chicago.
We all already knew that Trout is amazing, but this might help underscore the sort of advantage he provides. Trout doesn’t just give the Angels the best situation in center field in the league. He automatically makes them a top outfield, just by himself. Let’s say you need, I don’t know, 40-45 WAR to be a real playoff contender. Trout can provide a fourth or a fifth of that in one place, and at least for 2014 he’s projected to do that for practically nothing. Last year Trout was paid a hair over the league minimum. This year he should get a raise, but not much of one, relatively speaking. By making almost no dent on the Angels’ budget, Trout makes up a huge chunk of what the Angels want to build.
Right now the Angels are big-money contenders in the AL West, along with the Rangers and A’s. Take Trout away, and the Angels have basically the same payroll. But take Trout away, and they project for fewer WAR than the Orioles. They project for only a few more WAR than the Twins and Astros. The Angels, in a lot of ways, are a complete mess, but because of the Trout advantage they can realistically think about playing in October anyway. Because of his massive value over his salary, Trout effectively boosts the Angels’ payroll by tens of millions of dollars. That’s what happens when you maximize the productivity you get out of a little contract.
Mike Trout is why the Angels are better than the Mariners. Mike Trout is why the Angels are better than the Mets. Mike Trout is why the Angels still have most of the same people in charge in place. It’s hard to be terrible with a healthy Mike Trout, because the guy is perfect and still hardly costs anything. That won’t continue much longer, but it is what it is for the time being.
This is sort of an extreme example of why teams are beginning to so highly value their own cost-controlled youth. Every team has a budget, and within that budget, they want to get something like 40-50 WAR. Getting a lot of WAR out of cheap players increases the effective available payroll, allowing for flexibility elsewhere. It’s those young guys who allow for bigger investments and overpayments. When you have a cost-controlled core in place, then you can modify the roster by adding free agents and so forth. If you can pay pennies for wins in some areas, then you can pay market price for wins in others. Because just about no one can afford to pay market price for wins everywhere. I mean, a lot of teams could afford it, but they don’t and won’t spend like that. This is why efficiency is always so critical, for almost every single team.
But that’s getting to a larger point, which wasn’t the purpose of this exercise. The purpose of this exercise was to compare 2014 Mike Trout to other outfields around MLB. Turns out Trout is better than most of them, combined. We talk about Trout all the time because there’s pretty much no way we’re appreciating this enough.
Jeff made Lookout Landing a thing, but he does not still write there about the Mariners. He does write here, sometimes about the Mariners, but usually not.

I love Angel’s scout Greg Morhart’s initial report on Trout, when he was 17: “Best athlete. Best player in the world—period. Best player on the planet.”
I heard when Morhart gave his assesment on who to draft went something like this “trout, Trout, and Trout”
Next year, Trout will likely surpass every relief pitcher in history, save Mariano Rivera, in career WAR.
That depends what you mean by relief pitcher. A Mr. George Herman Ruth had 15 relief appearances in his career. So, you’ve got 150+ WAR to go, Mr. Trout.
Would Mike Trout spitting into his teammates’ mouths merit a 50 game PED suspension?
Why spit in their mouths when he can just suck their dicks?
you… may mean the opposite of that.
They suck his dick?
That was apparently done in ancient Greek or Roman times (I get the two mixed up at times, and I’m not about to google it at work!). Where to get the wisdom of your older male mentor, you’d blow him… boy how times have changed.
Thats the ancient greeks Wally. Gay pedophilia was encouraged.
I’m reading the wiki. Apparently it’s called Pederasty and is different than pedophilia for some reason. The Romans did it too, though it was less acceptable. Except the sex was for carnal desires rather than the ancient Greek’s man mentoring boy stuff.
The distinction, which often gets left behind on news TV, TV dramas, and the popular press is that pederasts go after post-pubescent children, while pedophiles go after prepubescent childeren.
Asbergers, everyone!
Did I say Ass to Trout? I meant to say bass to mouth, though I guess it’s basically the same thing. Not that I did it.
LMAO!
Rumor is that FanGraphs are introducing a new stat called WBT (Wins Below Trout).
Your 2013 major league leader in WBT: Mike Trout, at a whopping 0.0!
Just haven’t put it on the site yet….
http://www.fangraphs.com/not/report-mlb-and-fangraphs-to-announce-creation-of-mike-trout-award/#comment-309801
I think this is exactly the reason so many teams try to develop inside prospects and rebuild “the right way” when it becomes obvious their current team is a bust. They all hope to catch lightning in a bottle, which the Angels surely did. That many of them still fail shows how hard it is to capture lightning. Overall it’s probably a decent strategy and failure doesn’t mean the strategy was no good. Even if a team only finds a few 1/2 Trouts, that a good, cheap base to build upon, which then has to be augmented by some savvy trades or good FA players to fill out a competitive team.
The funny thing about this is that had the Angels actually built the right way instead of just throwing money around buying free agents they would actually be good. Instead the best player on the planet will continue to miss the playoffs because he was essentially the only good move that front office has made in half a decade.
Steamer sucks.
Trout is a great player, but he can’t play all three outfield positions by himself. Kind of a pointless comparison, but just think how bad the Angels would be without him.
Did you not read this?
“It’s not literally true that Mike Trout would be a top-ten outfield on his own — that would actually be a catastrophe — but a top-ten projected outfield could realistically feature Trout flanked by a pair of replacement-level corners. Say, Delmon Young and Jeff Francoeur. How do you turn Young and Francoeur into a top-ten outfield? Put Mike Trout in between them and you’ve got a better unit than the Nationals.”
Certainly not a pointless discussion — it provides context for just how valuable having Mike Trout in your OF is, regardless of the two corners.
No, he can’t play all three – but any two other warm bodies next to him would be an excellent overall group.
It’s kind of like the article that compared barry bonds to a papaya – in that if you paired him with a papaya, you would still be around replacement level. Trout is close to that.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/bonds-and-a-bat/
Take it another step further. Will trout have hall of fame numbers before he’s 30? Could be age 28.
If you went by WAR maybe, but HOF voters demand better counting stats than Trout is getting for early enshrinement.
Ie, he’s a great hitter, but he likely isn’t going to put up big HR numbers. The fact that so much of his value comes from defense, being good on the basepaths, but not stealing a ton of bases, and fielding means he’ll be under-appreciated by HOF voters.
This leads me to believe, if he has a 3 more great seasons, then kinda flames out, maybe getting just another 4 years or so at above average, he wouldn’t be a HOFer, even if he had 70 WAR.
If Trout is literally worth 9 WAR from now until 2020, he’d get in, but I think you have to knock him down a .5/WAR per year (which is still amazing), so by 2020, you’re probably hoping for a 5-6WAR player.
Averaging 30-100-30-.300 for 8 years should be all the counting anyone needs with that defense! You know… For the old school guys!
Why would Trout decline by .5 WAR a season in his early and mid 20s?
Feeding,
Because apparently everyone declines as soon as they show up now and we no longer have this “hitters peak in their late 20’s thing”.
SKob,
I don’t know that 30-100-30-.300 for 8 years will be enough. Especially if its more like 26-85-32 most years (which is more or less the average of Oliver/Steamer predictions for 2014). That would put him at maybe around 225 HR and 250 SB, which is good but hardly eye catching. I just feel that very well rounded players get ignored more easily by the BBWAA than players that are really great at maybe 2 or 3 things.
And as it is, he hasn’t won an MVP, he hasn’t got a GG to show for the defense, if that keeps up (as stupid as it is), a lot of voters would find him easy to pass up. He’s the Mickey Mantle of our era, but with less power and more speed, and I don’t think that helps him with the BBWAA. Its stupid, but I think that’s the way it is.
Just because there has been a recognizable change to the aging curves where it has been noted that “hitters arrive at their peak and simply decline with age,” this is not the same thing as “everyone declines as soon as they show up now.” For one, “[w]ith wRC+, the most recent aging curve doesn’t immediately begin declining like the wOBA curve. Instead, it remains constant until it begins to decline.” But, more importantly these aging curves are trends in the population of MLB players and in no way are ironclad predictors for individual players, especially an outlier like Mike Trout. You may be right to knock him .5 WAR a year – I don’t know what to do with him; that’s what makes him fun to think about – but I am not buying that you must knock him .5 WAR a year because “everyone declines as soon as they show up now.”
Bonds was at roughly 65 WAR when he turned 30. (8 seasons)
Griffey roughly 60 by 30. (10 seasons)
With 60 being kind of a rough HOF entry number, if they did it so could Trout. Trout would need roughly 5 wins a year to hit 60 by the time he turns 30.
Andruw Jones had 65 WAR by Age 30, and he’s not going to Cooperstown, although he’s likely going to be more deserving than a bunch of the electees. If Trout doesn’t put up counting stats, he could face the same fate
That’s basically what my point was above too. Andruw Jones is a great example of that. He had a lower peak than what Trout is seeing (which is true of almost everyone) but he did get 2nd in MVP voting once, and should have got more consideration in several other years.
Its too bad for baseball that Jones was entirely done at age 31. He was a hell of a talent to watch for a long while and won’t get a sniff for the HOF.
Best OFers in the last 50 years, by fWAR, through age 29:
Griffey 68.5
Bonds 64.9
AJones 61.9
Henderson 58.8
Cabrera 47.7
Raines 46.4
Cesar Cedeno 46.0
RJackson 45.8
Yount 44.9 [if you want to count him as an OFer]
Bobby Bonds 42.5
Yastrzemski 40.3
Vlad Guerrero 40.3
Dawson 39.8
Strawberry 39.7
Beltran 38.5
Sure, some guys tailed off and never made the HoF, but 40+ fWAR by then makes you a pretty solid bet 🙂
I always thought Andruw Jones was going to Cooperstown, myself.
This article is great and Trout is amazing.
Got me thinking in another direction, though. Any chance that, in 2015, Pittsburgh ends up with the best OF (in terms of WAR) at least since 1980? Say Marte (4.5?), Cutch (8ish), and Polanco (4) … perhaps even more?
This may be helpful if you’re interested in the question: http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/id/26482/do-braves-have-all-time-great-outfield
Cutch projects to 6.5 and Marte to 2.9 next year so it’s possible but unlikely.
I think that it won’t happen this year, but since they’re all under control through 2018, you can bet they might come close in 2016 or 2017 when everyone is in full on beast mode.
this post reminds me of the 1961 Yankees outfield, with Mickey Mantle, Roger Maris, and Yogi Berra. That was probably among the best, if not the best, outfield ever.
It came out to about 2 Trouts (a unit of measurement equal to 10WAR), which is pretty amazing. That’s on approximately the same level as the other great super-outfields of all time, like the 1941 Yankees with Joe Dimaggio (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/the-greatest-yankees-outfield-ever/), or the 1980 A’s.
And of course with Kole Calhoun (2.4 Steamer, 3.4 Oliver) and Josh Hamilton (2.5 and 1.5) along with Trout (9.0 and 9.5) the Angels have a pretty good outfield in 2014: 13.9 via Steamer or Oliver – the best in the biz.
Also, Trout’s career WAR of 21.1 is already 9th most among all-time Angels position players. After next year he’ll likely be 5th and after 2015 he’ll be knocking on Jim Fregosi’s door. Trout only has to average 7.2 WAR over the next three years to be the best Angels position player ever…in his first five years.
Trout’s awesome and all, but you’re talking about all-time Angels here….
Which is relevant because the Angels chose not to give Trout a Longoria deal.
“The best player in Angels history should be getting the biggest contract in Angels history” is going to be his agent’s mantra.
No way would Trout have accepted a Longoria-esque deal.
Maybe change the title? “Mike Trout: I suck him off again”
Well if the Greeks are right and “swallowing” really can impart wisdom upon another; I’d gladly service Mike Trout.
Looking at Trout’s awesome stats got me wondering about Barry Bonds’ early years in Pittsburgh. Had Bonds played in this era where WAR (and not HRs) is commonly used as perhaps the best all around measure of a player’s value, would the media not have gone gaga over Barry for his all around game? He had over 48 WAR in his 7 seasons with the Pirates, with 2 seasons right around 10. And would that, perhaps, have led Bonds down a different career path?
What I’m curious about is what will Trout make in his first year of arbitration (assuming he doesn’t sign an extension before then). Sabr oriented people will likely propose a record high number, while traditionalists might look at his lack of MVPs and other hardware and go far lower and not be record setting.
What in fuck happened to this place?! Fangraphs was one of, if not the only places I could read the comments. Now there’s idiots here too. Appleman and Cameron, please force users to register before posting so you can ban people who are trying to ruin it with posts like the few above. Or just close comments. This is why we can’t have nice things.
I agree with you to a large extent but your argument isn’t helped by using a needless profanity in the first sentence.
Actually, it is. Profanity is not the problem. Assholes and trolls are the problems.
Closing comments = not the answer. Ever. Regardless of the topic or website. Whether 0.5% of users misuse them, or 5%, or 50%, we shouldn’t just shut down the commentary we don’t like.
Profanity IS A PROBLEM for many. If you are trying to raise the level of discourse profanity would be a decent place to start.
BJs World. (hehehehe)
The Trout love is getting a bit ridiculous here. He’s still so young and will have to adjust to the league’s pitching. Bryce Harper seems to be the better player. Trout couldn’t hit when he came up and adjusted. If pitchers adjust, we may see the Trout suck again.
“Bryce Harper seems to be the better player.”
This is funny. While I for one think Harper is going to be great and MAYBE even as good, or close to as good, as Trout, let’s look at what both players have actually accomplished so far – Harper is NOT the better player.
As for this bit about adjusting, Trout’s greatness is partially because of his uncanny ability to adjust. Check out his stats the 1st vs. 2nd time facing a pitcher in a game.
As for the Trout love getting ridiculous, are you aware that Trout is responsible for 2 of only 51 position player seasons in 143 years with a 10+ WAR? Or since Hitler invaded Poland (the last 75 seasons), 2 of only 25 player seasons? And since 1970, 2 of 10? The Trout love is ridiculous because Trout is ridiculous – ridiculously amazing.
The scary thing is while the assumption by most pundits is that he can only decline from here, what if he actually improves? If he combines or slightly improves his hitting and playing time of 2013 with his baserunning and defense of 2012 he’ll be pushing 12 WAR, a feat accomplished only 10 times and by just 4 players, one of whom (Babe Ruth) is responsible for 6 of those 10 seasons.
If we posit a healthy, but relatively conservative, career and he averages a mortal but still impressive 7 WAR through the rest of his 20s, then puts together a modest 30 WAR in his 30s, we’re talking about a player that ends his career with 110+ WAR or so, placing him easily in the top 20 position players of all time. If he is actually able to maintain or even improve upon his current performance then the sky’s the limit – the current great trio of all-time centerfielders – Cobb, Mays, and Mantle – could become a quartet.
I’m not predicting that, mind you – just saying that its possible, and the fact that its possible is amazing in and of itself.
Look, I’m a Nats fan, and I lapped up every article about Harper’s greatness when he was coming up. I watched consecutive 59-win disasters for the pro team with this incredible beacon of hope on the horizon. I live in Syracuse, so I got to visit my shitty minor league team and see first Strasburg and then Harper come play games. Harper was impossibly hyped. After all this, he has not disappointed for a single goddamned second in my ultraviolet-rose-tinted view, I could not be happier. And I would say without a shadow of hesitation that *Trout is far and away more amazing*. I would love for my guy to have his numbers. What’s happening in California is incredible.
I think you hit the nail right on the head. Harper is great, but the crazy thing is, Harper’s quality is really just a testament to how insanely good Trout has been, because Trout’s shadow is so long that Harper is pretty well stuck under it.
Of course things change on a dime. Trout could get hurt (please no… and I’m not an Angels fan, the guy is just amazing to watch). Harper could go full beast mode himself this next year.
If I had to guess, Harper will eventually be the more outwardly lauded player because he will have bigger power (and of course he’ll be great at a lot of other things, too). Meanwhile, Trout will quietly hit 25 HR or so each season to go along with all the other amazing things he’s doing.
Barring major injury, Trout’s evolution is more likely to decrease his speed and defense and increase his power. He is a big guy so expecting him to stay in the 30-30 range into his 30’s would be as unusual as his performance to date. Possible but not something to count on. He might evolve into a 20-40 lf by his late 20’s, which would actually his case with the old school.
He is clearly looking like a player of historical performance now but sustaining those levels over a decade is going to require some luck to go along with the talent.
Make that “help his case”
In a 16 team dynasty league ,my outfield is McCutchen,Harper ,and Trout. I often wake up in the middle of the night smiling after dreaming about this ,
Why is Mike Trout not trying to sell me everything I use on a daily basis? Sincere question.
Hey, I just ate some Mike Trout sponsored Super Pretzels, so we’re getting there.
But how many outfields of Jews is Delmon Young better than?
-2.4 Shawn Green
According to Baseball Heat Maps, Trout’s batted ball distance was rather average last season (his average fly ball went 283 feet, good for 136th in MLB) but he was 30th in HR/FB at 16.5%. As a frame of reference, Victor Martinez was 134th on that list and hit nearly the same percentage of fly balls as Trout. VMart hit 14 homers (and posted a 7.2% HR/FB).
Even though Mike Trout is still a phenomenal player if he hits considerably less than 27-30 home runs due to his BABIP skills, baserunning, and defense, I really doubt he can remain a 9 win player if his ISO rank gets too close to his batted ball distance ranks.
Hey guys, has the Mike Trout blowjob fest started on Fangraphs yet? If not we need to get the ball rolling.
Fun fact the Nationals could have drafted Trout in the same draft they picked up Strasburg, instead they spent their 2nd first round pick on Drew Storen, using a top 10 pick on a college closer. Instead Trout and Harper in the same outfield is something not even an All-Star Game can offer.
I hope you got to a Scottsdale Scorpions game in 2011!
Trout is very good… at one sport, I think it’s cute.
Is the millions he’ll be making cute too?
I was going to chide you about the millions he’s made, but according to Cot’s Contracts, Trout has made just over $2 million, if you include his $1.2 million signing bonus.
Actually, wouldn’t Jeff Francouer drag down a Mike Trout outfield with is his negative WAR? An outfield that included (a 2013) Frenchy would place much closer to the lower end of that graph.
I’m pretty sure that Trout alone could play all 3 OF positions for the ChiSox & Cubs, at the same time, and still be worth more WAR than the 6 dudes scheduled to play now.
Mike Trout will be the next Red Sox LEGEND. He deserves to play in the BEST baseball town & in front of the BEST FANS in the UNIVERSE!!!!!
So… You want him to play in St. Louis, in front of Twins fans? That doesn’t make much sense…