Money Is Just Numbers: Mets Sign Correa in Whirlwind Reversal

This offseason has seen an avalanche of activity early on, with 22 of our top 25 free agents signing before Christmas. But last night, we somehow doubled up. After an undisclosed medical issue held up the official announcement of Carlos Correa’s contract with the Giants, the entire deal fell through, and the Mets stepped into the fray, signing Correa to a 12-year, $315 million deal this morning, as Jon Heyman first reported.
I’ll let that breathe for a second so that you can think about it. The Giants went from laying out $350 million and adding a cornerstone player to their roster for more than a decade to nothing at all. The Mets went from a big free agency haul to an unprecedented one. Correa is going from shortstop to third base, and maybe losing one gaudy vacation home in the process when all is said and done.
The Mets had already spent heavily this offseason to shore up their pitching. With Jacob deGrom, Chris Bassitt, and Taijuan Walker all leaving in free agency, the team had a lot of high-quality innings to replace, and they did so in volume, adding Justin Verlander, Kodai Senga, and José Quintana. Those were in effect like-for-like moves, as was signing Edwin Díaz, Adam Ottavino and Brandon Nimmo after they reached free agency. The 2023 Mets stood to look a lot like the 2022 Mets in broad shape – most of their additions were either swaps (deGrom for Verlander) or small (Omar Narváez will be a platoon catcher, David Robertson will shore up the bullpen).
Much had been made of owner Steve Cohen’s willingness to go over the competitive balance tax threshold put in place largely because of him – the so-called “Cohen tax” kicks in at $60 million above the first CBT level and charges teams a 90% tax for every dollar spent. Merely in the above moves, which were mostly lateral ones, the Mets ran up a projected 2023 CBT payroll of $362.2 million, well above the $293.3 million line where the highest tax bracket kicks in.
I didn’t find that particularly shocking. The Mets were a great team last year, eclipsing 100 wins for the first time since 1988. Replicating that finish – or at least that talent level – was going to cost more, what with many key contributors hitting free agency and all. Cohen has made no secret of his willingness to spend to build a contender, and he’d already done just that over the past two offseasons. The owners put in a Cohen tax in last year’s collective bargaining agreement, and they didn’t do it for no reason: There was a widespread expectation that Cohen would be willing to spend quite a bit to make the Mets perennial contenders.
They already looked like that before signing Correa, though. They had the third-best offense in baseball last year by wRC+, the fourth-best collection of position players by WAR. After bringing Nimmo back, they figured to run out an identical group in 2023, and perhaps slightly better than that after accounting for Narváez and top prospect Francisco Álvarez.
By adding Correa, the Mets have kicked their offense and payroll up a notch each. Their projected CBT payroll, per FanGraphs salary guru Jon Becker, is now $388.4 million. Assuming no further changes to their team, that would result in a tax bill of $115 million, easily the highest in history. They’ll also boast the highest payroll in baseball history, as well as the most free agent spending in a single year ever. Counting Correa’s deal, the Mets have guaranteed $806 million in contracts this offseason. The previous high was last year’s Rangers team, which checked in at $584.5 million thanks to big contracts for Corey Seager and Marcus Semien. The Mets have gone from big spenders to a wholly different category.
In doing so, they’ve built a truly fearsome lineup. Incumbent third baseman Eduardo Escobar was hardly a weak link last year; he was a solid contributor with an above-average batting line. If you were looking for a place the Mets could improve, it would be catcher, where they already signed Narváez, and perhaps overall depth. Or they could just add one of the 10 best hitters in baseball, sure, why not.
Correa is very much a luxury addition to that already-excellent offense. He’ll push Escobar to a utility role, while making the top of the lineup perhaps the most formidable in the game. Nimmo, Correa, Francisco Lindor, Pete Alonso, and Jeff McNeil are going to give NL East pitchers nightmares. The lineup will be staggeringly deep, too: Mark Canha is slated to bat eighth, and he’s posted a wRC+ of 115 or higher in each of the past five seasons. There won’t even be much drop-off when someone rests: Escobar can slot in comfortably at second or third, Correa can handle shortstop when Lindor needs a breather and let Escobar take third, and McNeil can slide to either outfield corner from second base as needed. The Mets’ lineup on the days when someone is resting will still be one of the best in baseball.
I don’t think you came to this article to read about Correa’s lineup contributions, though. You already know how good Correa is. Dan Szymborski covered his initial deal with the Giants, and noted that Correa has the highest projected career WAR of any current shortstop, narrowly edging out Lindor. Or, well, had: Correa is now a third baseman, of course. You came here to read about the drama of it all, and what the voided contract with the Giants means.
I’m not sure exactly what to make of the medical concerns that scuttled Correa’s initial deal. They’re obviously not public, and will likely never be leaked – medical records are far more protected than contract details by law. Correa dealt with intermittent injury issues early in his career, but has been reliably available for the past three seasons; he’s batted just 45 times fewer than Lindor in that interval, and while he missed time in 2022, it was because of a stay on the COVID-19 IL and a short second trip when he fouled a ball off of his finger. ZiPS projects him for 592 plate appearances in 2023, which is nearly the top of the scale when it comes to projected playing time.
Speculating beyond that is outside my area of expertise. I couldn’t tell you what concerns the Giants raised, and whether they were motivated by a desire to renegotiate the deal or by worry about Correa’s availability. It’s also unclear how severe the Giants’ concerns even were in the first place; it’s possible that the deal would have gone through eventually, or that they’d have asked to take a year off of the pact, or something of that nature. The team will likely never fully explain their decision, and the best we have to go on is a statement released by Farhan Zaidi: “While we are prohibited from disclosing confidential medical information, as Scott Boras stated publicly, there was a difference of opinion over the results of Carlos’ physical examination. We wish Carlos the best.”
The Giants’ pursuit of Correa made a lot of sense to me from a team-building standpoint, but they didn’t seem to approach their offseason that way. The team’s main push was for local product Aaron Judge, and you couldn’t walk into a Bay Area coffee shop in November without hearing a theory about why Judge secretly planned on heading home and spurning the Yankees. The Correa deal fell into place quickly after Judge re-upped, and it had the feel of “well we have this money, let’s get a big name” to it.
While Correa might have been a consolation prize in fans’ minds, not having Correa is much worse than that. The Giants were a .500 team last year, and their division isn’t getting any easier. The Padres might be the best team in baseball on paper – unless the Mets are now. Meanwhile, the Giants aren’t even clearly better than they were last year.
San Francisco’s offseason plan seemed straightforward – sign one big ticket hitter and a number of pitchers with upside. There’s no one left to sign on the hitting side, though: the best remaining hitter is probably Jean Segura, and he’s more role player than star. They’re caught in between, and while they clearly came into this offseason with a plan to increase payroll and bulk up their lineup, they’re going to end up with a similar payroll and only Mitch Haniger added offensively. Baseball teams care about far more than just what happens next year, but woof: what’s happening in the Bay next year certainly appears to be another year of being caught in between.
It’s not at all clear that the Giants feared losing Correa when they held up his official announcement over medical concerns. They likely expected to re-work his deal, or perhaps to send it through as-is after further time to scrutinize the findings. But deals aren’t final until they’re final, of course: when the Giants held up making things official, it opened the door to other possibilities. Cohen and agent Scott Boras reportedly negotiated the Mets deal using the framework of New York’s previous offer, which let them move quickly.
There hasn’t been a medicals-scuttled contract of anything approaching this magnitude before. The Orioles are famous for having particularly strict medical examinations, and they’d been involved in the three previous highest-profile ones. In 2000, they reneged on an offer to Aaron Sele over medicals, and he signed with the Mariners instead. Grant Balfour failed a physical with the Orioles and ended up signing with the Rays for $3 million less in 2013. Yovani Gallardo renegotiated his deal with Baltimore after medical concerns. But these are all penny ante compared to what happened yesterday.
I don’t think we’ll be able to measure who “won” and “lost” in this deal for a very long time, but I’m also skeptical that a framework of “winning” and “losing” is really the right way to approach this deal. For the Mets, the takeaway is clear: the whole concept of dollars per win doesn’t really apply. They’re interested in building a great team, and securing core players who will contribute for years to come. If they were trying to compete in terms of most efficiently allocating dollars, they’d clearly have been out; their outlays are meaningfully higher than San Francisco’s thanks to the CBT penalties.
If the Mets are truly trying to build Dodgers East, I think this is a smart way to go about it, and I’ve always thought that the best use of Cohen’s money is in signing superstars that the team can build around. Lindor was the first example of that, and Correa is in the same tier. I’m much more confident in teams’ ability to turn a good development system into excellent role players than I am in anyone’s ability to predict true MVP-level players. Those are few and far between, and I’m in favor of adding them when possible.
Does this deal make sense financially? Let me put it this way – Steve Cohen thinks so. The man isn’t exactly famous for being bad at making money. Baseball’s financial system is set up to let big-market teams flex their spending muscle; teams had treated it like a hard cap throughout the previous CBA, but there’s no reason that had to be the case. I don’t know what the exact point of owning a sports team is, but winning championships and having something to be proud of is surely a lot of it, particularly for billionaires whose fortunes are so vast that money is more about keeping score than anything else. It’s not even like Cohen is exploiting some loophole; you’re allowed to spend as much as you want.
I’d be surprised if the Mets are still running payrolls this high in five years. They’re notably light on pre-arbitration contributors at the moment, the key component that allows teams to run relatively light payrolls while contending for division titles and championships. That fact surely hasn’t escaped their front office’s attention. But if they keep spending big, so what? Sports fans always wish their owners would open the purse strings and go the extra mile. Cohen is doing it.
As for the Giants, your view of this deal comes down to how much you trust them, more or less. They put together a spectacular team in 2021, winning 107 games to wrest the NL West away from the Dodgers. They fell back to earth this year, and they don’t have a notably good farm system or an obviously playoff-worthy major league roster. They’ve shown an ability to build a winner by getting the most out of role players, but I look at their roster and struggle to see how they’ll win 90 games, let alone 100.
One way or another, the Giants need stars, tremendous talents to make their skill at deploying role players move the team from 90 to 95 wins rather than 80 to 85. They could develop them from their own prospects, though that’s always a crapshoot. They could theoretically trade for them; it works for the Cardinals. Or they could sign them, as they were trying to do this season. It’s not quite fair to say that they’ve sacrificed 2023 in pursuit of a mystery box next offseason, but look at it this way: they have that money to spend, they were clearly willing to spend it on someone of Correa’s caliber, and now they aren’t spending it.
Perhaps in a year this will all feel silly; maybe they’ll trade for Fernando Tatis Jr. or sign Shohei Ohtani. Maybe they’ll sign Rafael Devers and Aaron Nola. It’s hard to judge the Giants without knowing what they do instead. It hurts for 2023, but maybe it won’t hurt long-term. There’s no way to know.
That uncertainty is part of the cost, though. The Giants are going to spend a year in a holding period, hoping to sneak into the playoffs but mostly waiting to see how they can pivot to another star. They’ve assembled a fairly good team but one that needed more impact players; it feels like a huge missed opportunity to come away from free agency worse than the team was in 2022.
At the end of the day, that’s my read on this wild situation: the Mets got better while the Giants got less certain. In 10 years, we’ll be able to look at the ex post facto tale of the tape and see how each side made out. For now, it’s all a matter of degrees of expectation. I think what the Mets did makes a ton of sense. I’m sure the Giants didn’t think this would turn out the way it did. At the moment, I can’t say anything more than that. But ZiPS can – as a postscript to this long-winded shrug, here’s what it thinks of Correa as a third baseman in Queens:
| Year | BA | OBP | SLG | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | SO | SB | + | DR | WAR |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2023 | .265 | .347 | .451 | 517 | 76 | 137 | 25 | 1 | 23 | 75 | 64 | 116 | 0 | 122 | 13 | 5.4 |
| 2024 | .259 | .344 | .438 | 514 | 74 | 133 | 24 | 1 | 22 | 73 | 65 | 115 | 0 | 117 | 12 | 5.0 |
| 2025 | .254 | .339 | .429 | 504 | 71 | 128 | 23 | 1 | 21 | 69 | 63 | 112 | 0 | 113 | 11 | 4.6 |
| 2026 | .248 | .332 | .414 | 488 | 67 | 121 | 22 | 1 | 19 | 65 | 61 | 109 | 0 | 108 | 10 | 3.9 |
| 2027 | .244 | .328 | .402 | 468 | 62 | 114 | 21 | 1 | 17 | 59 | 58 | 106 | 0 | 104 | 9 | 3.5 |
| 2028 | .235 | .321 | .381 | 438 | 56 | 103 | 19 | 0 | 15 | 53 | 54 | 100 | 0 | 96 | 8 | 2.7 |
| 2029 | .234 | .319 | .374 | 401 | 50 | 94 | 17 | 0 | 13 | 47 | 49 | 93 | 0 | 94 | 6 | 2.3 |
| 2030 | .234 | .320 | .375 | 363 | 45 | 85 | 15 | 0 | 12 | 42 | 44 | 85 | 0 | 94 | 5 | 2.0 |
| 2031 | .231 | .315 | .363 | 364 | 43 | 84 | 15 | 0 | 11 | 41 | 43 | 86 | 0 | 90 | 4 | 1.7 |
| 2032 | .228 | .310 | .351 | 325 | 37 | 74 | 13 | 0 | 9 | 35 | 38 | 77 | 0 | 85 | 3 | 1.2 |
| 2033 | .223 | .304 | .337 | 282 | 31 | 63 | 11 | 0 | 7 | 29 | 32 | 68 | 0 | 80 | 2 | 0.7 |
| 2034 | .224 | .305 | .341 | 232 | 25 | 52 | 9 | 0 | 6 | 23 | 26 | 57 | 0 | 81 | 1 | 0.6 |
| Percentile | 2B | HR | BA | OBP | SLG | OPS+ | WAR |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 95% | 36 | 36 | .310 | .397 | .565 | 160 | 8.2 |
| 90% | 33 | 32 | .300 | .387 | .532 | 154 | 7.7 |
| 80% | 30 | 28 | .288 | .370 | .506 | 141 | 6.8 |
| 70% | 28 | 27 | .278 | .362 | .487 | 135 | 6.4 |
| 60% | 26 | 25 | .271 | .354 | .467 | 129 | 5.9 |
| 50% | 25 | 23 | .265 | .347 | .451 | 122 | 5.4 |
| 40% | 24 | 22 | .257 | .339 | .436 | 117 | 5.1 |
| 30% | 23 | 20 | .249 | .331 | .424 | 111 | 4.6 |
| 20% | 21 | 18 | .238 | .320 | .407 | 105 | 4.2 |
| 10% | 19 | 16 | .227 | .308 | .384 | 96 | 3.5 |
| 5% | 18 | 14 | .214 | .296 | .368 | 90 | 2.9 |
Ben is a writer at FanGraphs. He can be found on Bluesky @benclemens.
Can’t wait for this year’s Mets-Padres Wild Card series!
So we have Braves, Mets, Phillies, Padres, Dodgers, NL Central winner. Any other NL playoff field would be fairly shocking. BOOOORING.
I’d argue that the Cardinals/Brewers might have what it takes to challenge for that last wild card. Plus, there’s a Giants or an Orioles or two every year (D-Backs are maybe the most likely NL team to fill this role), not to mention the inevitable injuries that could come for anyone, so we’ll see!
I guess the Brewers/Cardinals could get a WC but it’s certainly not the most likely outcome. Marlins and Diamondbacks could merge and make a playoff team.
Seven NL teams will enter the season with less than 5% playoff odds. That isn’t a good look for the league, IMO.
Definitely under 5%:
Nats
Reds
Pirates
Rockies
Marlins
5%-ish?
Cubs
Giants
D-backs
Cubs more like 2% and the Giants 10 imo
I dunno, even if you think the Giants are better the Cubs have at least a handful of scenarios where they win their division with like 88. They could luck into 88.
It’s hard to see any scenarios where you don’t need 98-100 to win the east or west.
There are a lot of teams going into the season with essentially no chance.
“Well, time to expand the playoffs again!” -MLB, probably
NL Teams, projected by Fangraphs, each year with a 5%+ chance of making the post-season–
2023: ???
2022: 11/15
2021: 11/15
2020: 12/15 (162 game format)
2019: 13/15
2018: 11/15
2017: 10/15
2016: 9/15
Agreed. While spending more money does not always equal wins, Cohen’s level of spending creates too much inequality and significantly reduces the chances for the poorer teams to compete Might be fun for Met’s fans but overall it is not good for baseball. I really do not want MLB to turn into one of those European Soccer leagues where the same teams always win because they and only they can buy the best players…
How is this not Robert Nutting (or your choice of ‘impoverished multi-millionaire owner”) fault?
They get the best of both world: More money from Cohen’s pockets, and a great cover for their laziness “it’s too expensive, we can’t even compete!”.
I would advocate a system where the owners of most teams can afford to get an expensive free agent or two every so often and in general have a better chance to compete, because more competition is more fun to watch. I think revenue sharing rather than forcing Rob Nutting to spend more than he makes from the team is a better way to go. Because these Mets signings are a joke.
As a Mets fan, I say let’s see them win more than one division title a decade before we worry about that.
Could you make a 93 win team out of the Miazmi DiMarlinbacks?
AZ’s OF. Jazz and Walker in the infield then meh. Pretty darn good pitching (depending on how much you believe in the AZ arms knocking down the door). Would be interesting and the uniforms, if done right, could be elite.
I still think as long as MLB is messing with the playoffs, there should be a spot reserved in each league for an all-star team drawn from all the teams that didn’t qualify. If that team wins, there is no World Series trophy awarded that year.
I’m a Mets fan, and I admit I’m a little annoyed that non-Mets fans have turned on a dime from “Haha LOLMets” to “Waaaah it’s not fair they’re buying a superteam waah” when the team hasn’t actually won anything yet, but with some tweaks (like incentives for the non-playoff all-stars—though not their teams), this idea would actually be kinda fun. Chaos!
Many, including myself, completely disagree. These are teams with owners willing to spend on exciting impactful players.
I don’t hate the spending, exactly, but these are teams with the revenue base to spend like this and still make a profit. No one is putting their personal fortune into the player payroll.
There are certainly some bad actor owners among the small market teams, but even if they increased payroll to the point where the team is break-even they wouldn’t be able to spend anything like this.
Expand the rule 5 to any player over 21 not on a 26 man roster. The rebuilds take too long and this would speed it up.
That would be super fun, but I can’t see it happening. For one, it would mean that teams would stop drafting college players entirely. Shortening the length to Rule 5 eligibility would work, though.
“These are teams with the revenue base to spend like this and still make a profit.”
I don’t think your premise is correct. When Guggenheim bought the Dodgers and ramped up payroll, there were reports that they were not profitable for the first couple of years. It was basically a long term investment to draw in fans, with the plan being to eventually drop the payroll down to more “reasonable” levels.
Based on that, I think it’s almost a given that the Mets will not turn a profit this year, and the Padres likely won’t either. Those owners are very likely pouring their personal resources into their teams to help drive their current spending.
Possibly, there’s no way to know. Ask an owner and they’ll always tell you they’re losing money.
The point is that the break-even payroll level for the Mets is something like four times higher than it is for a small market team, even after the current revenue sharing.
We can make a pretty good guess though. If the Dodgers were indeed not profitable back then, then I don’t see any way the Mets could be now.
But the Mets aren’t what other teams should aspire to be, since you can’t exactly bank on being bought by an owner that is by far the richest guy in baseball.
They should aspire to be like the Padres. San Diego is not a big market team, yet they are spending well above their weight class. Again, it’s very likely they aren’t profitable. I think the Padres are making a calculated choice to try and go all in and bring the team its first championship. That would have long term rewards, even after payroll has dropped back down. Other teams should be looking at followig that model.
Profitable can be defined a number of different ways.
1. simple, are revenues > costs
2. are revenues > costs when you factor in the opportunity cost of capital
3. are revenues sufficiently greater than costs (that you have you cleared some hurdle rate)
I doubt the dodgers ever failed (1), but given the high cost of the franchise there was probably a time when they failed (2)…
The reports suggested that the Dodgers did indeed fail option (1). They were estimating the Dodgers revenue vs costs, and determined that the Dodgers were likely in the red. Since these were estimations, we don’t know for sure, but I don’t actually see it as all that surprising. It’s not uncommon for big companies to run at a loss over a short period of time with the expectation that they will eventually become profitable over time.
San Diego is definitely a big market, though. I think the Braves model makes more sense for mid-market teams – develop some rookie stars, and extend them through their primes right away. You take a lot of duration risk, but if you can do it a few times your odds of coming out ahead are really high.
Of course, developing rookie stars is the tricky part…
Hasn’t worked so well for the White Sox
Any owner who decides that the stakes are too high will find willing buyers lining up to relieve them of their burden.
“Ask an owner and they’ll always tell you they’re losing money”
That doesn’t apply to just owners of sports franchises. Have you ever heard someone say, for example, that their salary is too high? Every worked in government and heard that their departmental budget is too big?
Not just in government, dude.
I work for the Air Force “airforce21one” and I think we can both agree our budgets could be slashed drastically and we’d be just fine. I work for a Directorate at HQ Air Combat Command.
Very doubtful. Rich people don’t have it lying around in cash, and they don’t sell things to raise the money — capital gains tax is 16%, so they take out a loan at a much lower interest rate and pay it out that way. Rich people are different from you and me in the way they manage their budgets.
The much anticipated lost sequel to The Great Gatsby where Nick Carraway becomes an ace accountant for the East Egg set, sheltering their fortunes through dubious avoidance schemes.
Lets say that you expect revenue to be $450M in 2023 and of that you are spending $150M on non-payroll expenses. If you spend $500M between payroll and the luxury tax, you certainly aren’t breaking even as far as revenue vs expenses (-$200M).
But is Cohen perhaps looking at the big picture, that MLB franchises have historically appreciated 10-12% per year and when your team is worth $3B that means it will be worth $3.3-3.4B next year?
Essentially, despite being in the red for 2023, maybe he sees it as still being in the black by not ignoring a long-term source of value…?
Exactly. If you can’t afford to run an MLB team competitively, your fans should not support your ownership of the team. I refuse to believe that Pittsburgh can support the #6 football team (profits wise) exclusively because of the hard cap and not because they built a legacy of winning that keeps the fans coming and this couldn’t be replicated with the Bucs.
Why shouldn’t owners put their personal fortune into payroll? Cohen is (coincidentally) the 30th richest person in the US. Get each of the other people ahead of him to but a team and let them all spend a billion dollars a year on payroll. Who cares?
I don’t care, I just don’t think they’ll do it. I think you’re damn lucky if you can find a billionaire willing to run it somewhere close to break even instead of taking the maximum profit.
I know, it’s not my money. But I really can’t blame an owner for saying no thanks, I want to make some money not lose money on this thing, you know?
Ummm … these costs do get passed down to the fans. There is no way that tickets, concessions, etc stay the same for Mets fans. People who are rich won’t care. But everyone else …
Anecdotal experience … in HS I worked part-time. Made minimum wage. My Sr year I only had classes until noon. A few buddies and I would head down on Wednesdays to catch home day games for the Padres at Jack Murphy Stadium. For less than the cost of 2 hours of work ($10), we could park, get a ticket, and enjoy a hot dog/drink. Fast forward to today, a similar experience at Petco would cost $80. That’s 5-6 hours of CA minimum wage work to have an afternoon at the ballpark.
Payroll for the Pads was about $30M back then. They are close to $240M now. Coincidentally, the 8x increase in salaries has corresponded with an approximate 8x increase in costs passed to the consumer.
At this point Cohen probably is getting pretty close to putting all the operating margin back into payroll, and that’s cool. I respect that. Good for him, good for Mets fans.
How much could the Pirates spend if Nutting did the same? 120m, maybe? Baseball’s financial playing field is very much not equal, and that’s frustrating for those of us who aren’t fans of a mega market team.
People who suggest that the solution for parity is for owners to put every last bit of profit back into payroll never seem to grasp the fact that for the Yankees and Dodgers, they could put in $500M a year in salary and for the Rays and Brewers and Pirates they could probably do like 1/4th of that. Yes, all teams could spend more and break even except for the Mets and Padres. No, that is not even close to a solution for parity. But the owners have resisted more assertive revenue sharing, probably because it would involve more teams bidding on free agents, and I don’t see that changing anytime soon.
What reasonable person would want to share their profits with their competitors?
They aren’t competitors. They are partners.
IDK that they send money to NPL or even any of the unaffiliated US teams, so they don’t. The teams are called “franchises” for a reason.
With pooled revenue making up a decent proportion of revenues and costs in large markets theoretically slightly larger I don’t think the gulf in payroll capacity is that wide.
It’s very good for Mets fans. Yet the number of posters complaining about this contract (it’s going to be a terrible burden in 7 months – no seven weeks!) – in the NY papers is incredible.
The most recent estimated team revenue numbers I saw for the Pirates was $258 million for 2021, net of revenue sharing and stadium debt service. They had player expenses of $74 million and $64 million of operating income (profit).
If they put all their profit into player expenses, they could spend $138 million without losing a dollar. Additionally, that would increase gate revenue, because more people would want to come to the games. That would mean more profit, and more money they could spend on player expenses.
The fact is that a lot of these small market teams aren’t spending the money they’re getting to make themselves competitive.
The Royals went from 30th in payroll in 2011 to 19th in 2014. They then went from 19th to 16th in 2015, the year they won the World Series. In 2017, they were 15th in payroll before they began to go back down.
I don’t mind if small market teams want to keep their powder dry until their competitive window opens. But when/if it opens, they should take a shot. That’s what the revenue sharing money is for. It’s an uneven playing field, but funny enough, you can buy your way into contention, even on a smaller budget.
Fair enough. I guess the counterpoint is that when you say “competitive” you’re talking about a puncher’s chance at a WC spot and then being heavy underdogs in the playoffs for a year or two, followed by the underwater backend of the contracts you guaranteed.
If you’re Nutting, you might ask whether that’s worth the $65m in commitments annually over a decade. I hate it, but there it is.
The Mets guaranteed almost a billion dollars of contracts this winter.
Bottom 7 media markets with MLB teams:
24. St. Louis Cardinals
25. Pittburgh Pirates
26. Baltimore Orioles
27. San Diego Padres
28. Kansas City Royals
29. Cincinatti Reds
30. Milwaukee Brewers
The Milwaukee Brewers are in the smallest media market in MLB. Of the 8 times the team has been in the playoffs, 4 of those times have been in the past 5 years.
The Cincinatti Reds have been in the playoffs 4 times in the past 12 years.
The Kansas City Royals have been in the playoffs twice in the last 12 years. They lost the World Series in 2014, and won the World Series in 2015… over the New York Mets.
The San Diego Padres have been in the playoffs twice in the last 3 years,
The Baltimore Orioles have been in the playoffs 3 times in the past 12 years.
The Pittsburgh Pirates have been in the playoffs 3 times in the past 12 years.
The St. Louis Cardinals have been in the playoffs 9 times in the past 12 years, winning the World Series in 2011.
What’s the value of an extra $65 million per year in payroll commitments over a decade? Ask the Cardinals, and they’ll tell you it is $40-73 million in operating income per year, thanks to revenue that climbed year over year for a decade before the pandemic.
In 2022, the Mets had an opening day payroll of $253,119,999. What did that get them? Second place in the division and a wild-card round exit in the playoffs.
The Pirates aren’t going anywhere with Nutting, just the bottom of the division until they have a different owner.
Why own a team if you don’t want to win? Oh, right, greed and status signalling. Very many of the small market teams are both netting money each year AND appreciating as an asset. That’s unusual outside monopolies and shouldn’t be tolerated by fans. Pick one.
Would you support a completely free market for MLB? Where anyone could start a team at any time, anywhere, and just join a division?
You just illustrated why MLB teams are not competitors anywhere except on the field of play.
Or how about you think if you run the organization well you can win sometimes and still breakeven or make some money? To do that you can’t take huge risks like Correa and have to be patient. The Brewers and Indians right now are advertisements for this, while the Pirates, Royals, Reds are the ones hit by bad luck/management for now…. The question is, how good is it for baseball to have teams that just give up?
If Pirates spent an extra $70mm this year what would it get them? Say they signed Verlander and Swanson…. would they make the playoffs? Almost certainly the answer is no… would they get an increase in attendance of 7000 a game to cover that $70mm? NO. So for them the option is to make a ~$70 operating income and suck, or make almost nothing and suck a little less.
The first round bye aspect still makes it interesting imo.
Why was Correa so quick to take 35 less M and change positions?
I would assume the SFGs were intransigent, and this was the 2nd best offer. Having done this dance with all the suitors already, Boras knows what’s on the table and “Hey guys, Correa flunked his medical with SF. Can you improve your offer?” isn’t the strongest negotiating ploy
Could have just waited for things to sort themselves out. Maybe SF knocks a year off and he gets to stay at short. Seems better than the situation he opted for, idk
thats why i am almost certain that the “medical issue” was just an excuse to renegotiate because the Giants realized they way overbid the Mets and got cheap
This would be more believable with certain other franchises. Not saying it didn’t happen here.
This is only true if you assume that San Francisco would have been willing to still sign Correa to a 300+ million dollar contract. It’s possible that they really didn’t like something in the medical history. (In the article above, it’s noted that teams are willing to accept varying levels of risk. It’s a spctrum, and the Giants may have fallen on the more risk-averse side.)
By approaching the Mets now, Correa still has some leverage. He can rightly say that the Giants are dragging their feet, which gives the Mets that chance to get back in at the level of their previous bid. The pressure is then on the Mets to act fast, because it they don’t decide then San Francisco could pull the trigger.
Waiting is a big gamble. It carries the risk that Giants pull out altogether, in which case there is nothing compelling the Mets to stick to their original offer. In that scenario they could justifiably say they are concerned about injury and drop their offer.
Backup offers are usually lower, that’s what makes them backup offers. As for the change of position, it’s basically a Puerto Rico WBC reunion. He seems happy enough to move for Lindor whether or not he’d be for anyone else.
Happy? No.
Those two have been rivals since they were kids. How friendly a rivalry is unclear.
But for Correa his third best offer was the Twins at $285m.
For $30M he can grin and bear it.
Maybe he decided that playing on a permanent contender in the biggest media market was worth one year. ARod did it.
This is a ridiculous move (and ridiculously awesome), but as a Mets fan, it isn’t my money. Growing up in New Jersey, when I’d complain about how much money the Yankees spent, Yankees fans would always counter with, “Well, if your owner cared so much about winning, he’d spend the money! It’s not against the rules!” Well, Yankees fans? Gotta make good on that promise. You’d better love the competitive landscape in New York right now.
Most Yankees fan love this and wish Hal Steinbrenner did the same. I’m a Yankees fan and think this is incredible. I have zero ill will towards the Mets and was quite fond of some of those mid 2000’s teams. A lot of my family (and other Yankees fans’ families) are Mets fans so I root for you guys except when we’re playing each other which is going to be yearly now so that’s cool.
As a Yanks fan, I love when other teams spend. And I’m thrilled with Mets ownership. Fun stuff. Mets look great. This is terrific news. This is the best hot stove season ever, maybe?
Mets Fans: HOW DO YOU LIKE IT WHEN THE SHOE’S ON THE OTHER FOOT, YANKEES FANS????
Yankees Fans: Congrats, guys! It’s great that you have an owner who cares more about wins than EBIDTA! You should be a fun team this season.
I think Mets fans are thinking of the looney wfan type Yankee fans that hate the Mets and are kvetching that they are spending lavishly.
Yankees fans: Hey, those are nice shoes! Gucci, right?
Yeah total contrast from the 18-19 offseasons thankfully where Machado and Harper signed in spring training and the Mets “big” moves were Bruce and Frazier.
As a Dodger fan, I feel the same way. However, to be fair the Mets haven’t really cost either one of our teams to miss out of a key free agent yet. If they had signed Aaron Judge, or if they sign Ohtani next year, we might start singing a different tune.
I’m hoping that Cohen gets Hal to act like he owns the most lucrative franchise in the sport.
“…Does this deal make sense financially? Let me put it this way – Steve Cohen thinks so…”
I don’t think this deal, or the Mets’ offseason generally, is about making financial sense. It’s about winning a WS at all costs, and perhaps the ego boost Cohen derives from flexing his financial muscle for adoring Metropolitan fans.
NTTAWWT. I would imagine most baseball fans wish their own owner would behave in a similar fashion, profits be damned!
As I have said before, analyzing Mets deals are impossible. The Mets just are. This, like every other Mets deal, is neither good nor bad. If you have literally have no upper payroll limit, then if a contract turns bad…who cares? The stakes for analyzing this don’t matter anymore.
“If you have literally have no upper payroll limit”
The Correa deal makes me sincerely curious about that. Like, why didn’t the Mets also sign Rodon instead of, or even in addition to, Senga and Quintana? Rodon projects as much better than Senga or Quintana over the next few years. If money literally is no object, why not?
Heck, why not also blow the other offers for Judge out of the water?
Sign DeGrom as well as Rodon, Verlander, Bassit, Walker, Senga, and Quintana? Sign Dansby Swanson and Xander Bogaerts too? Etc. If money is literally no object, presumably the only obstacles to doing this are roster spots and playing time. Swanson and Bogaerts aren’t going to take any amount of money to back up Correa and Lindor, for instance.
In seriousness, I would be curious to know more about how the Mets decided to spend as much as they’re spending. I mean, even leaving aside silliness like the idea of signing Swanson and Bogaerts to back up Lindor and Correa, it’s clear that (i) the Mets are far outspending everyone else, and (ii) the Mets are not the high bidders on every individual free agent who could help them. So what exactly is their financial decision-making process like?
I think they are still judging each individual move on its own merits. After all, they didn’t initally win the bidding on Correa. They weren’t willing to pay him 350+ million to play 3rd base, but they were willing to pay him 315 million. That tells me the deal still has to make some amount of sense for them to pull the trigger. I think they are willing to overpay, but not by a ridiculous amount. That’s probably why they didn’t sign Rodon or deGrom; those guys signed contracts that they didn’t really like.
They seem pretty happy to let players with a QO go and replace them with free agents who don’t require one. They don’t want to give away their 2nd round picks and they do want extra 4th rounders (or whatever it is) This seems like it shouldn’t be driving their decisions because pretty much all 4th rounders bust but they seem to be committed to it.
In isolation, I think every single deal the Mets have made this offseason make sense financially. There really hasn’t been one that’s been a clear overpay. It’s the sheer number of deals in one year that have pushed the Mets payroll into the stratosphere.
This reminds me of when the Russian billionaire Mikhail Prokhorov bought the Brooklyn Nets and then immediately handed out $300 million in contracts. MLB isn’t the NBA, but it will be interesting to see how Cohen feels about spending $100 million just in tax payments every year if the Mets don’t have a ring in a few years.
Cohen is one of the few owners who realizes that owning a baseball team should be a hobby more than a business. There are millions of fans that make baseball teams good investments and not one of them ever said “sure, we finished third in the Central, but just look at that financial statement!”
I find it amusing when people excoriate owners for not spending more of that owners’ money on player salaries. Always easier to spend someone else’s money… I mean, I like it when my team’s owner spend his money on making the team I like better, but I am not going to criticize him if he decides that he doesn’t want to dothat.
Why should it be a hobby?
Why shouldn’t it be?
What MikeS said. The point here is that Steve Cohen is buying something he wants. “Spending your money on things you want” is a good operational definition of “spending that makes financial sense”. And although there are various ways one could push back against that definition, they mostly don’t apply in this case. I mean, it’s not as if Steve Cohen is being tricked into spending money on Carlos Correa. He’s not an addict spending money to feed his addiction. He’s not ignorant of the consequences of spending his money on Carlos Correa. He’s not a small child whose wants are highly changeable and often bad for him. Etc. Even if he turns around in a few years and says “In retrospect, spending all that money on Carlos Correa didn’t make sense financially,” well, hindsight is 20:20. People change; nobody knows for *sure* that their future self will still want what their current self wanted.
No.no.no. Steve Cohen has had a league table since he turned 22, and that league table was ranked by “smarts.” Score was kept by wealth. Nothing has changed. Cohen’s only goal is to win the smartness championship,and his financial savvy tells him assets are grossly mispriced. 1) win curve 2) “inflation” which is just a yield curve.
Cohen wants you to say wow! He created a global franchise, a winning franchise,and he did it for just a couple billion in NPV. Winning is just a means to an end.
There’s not a soul on this board who would say that. And if this is true, what a pathetic way to live one’s life, trying to impress other people.
Good thing taxpayers kicked in 600+ million for the Mets stadium otherwise they might have packed up and gone to Vegas.
I wonder whether Correa would now have been better off not opting out. Even if this deal has an opt-out he’s making much less in the beginning
So if you include last year’s $35 million, he’s still going to make $350 million from 2022-2034. I think that’s a very good deal for him and any upside he would have gotten by taking another 1 year deal would be outweighed by him hurting his back again and not even getting close to what the Mets just gave him.
Even if he took another one year $35 million deal, he’d have to top 11 years $280 million after 2023 to make more than he is right now. It’s certainly possible but why risk that when he could get injured, the economy could collapse, or whatever.
I suppose so, especially since whatever the Giants saw might be a real thing
He’s the same size as A-Rod and already has chronic back issues.
You take that $300m+ deal everytime.
What do you get the
manMets owner who already has everything?Chocolates. I hand delivered them to a wealthier man once.
Steve Cohen is actually three 10 year old kids from Queens in a trench coat.
Three ten-year old kids who are loaded, apparently. They better clean out the concessions at the theatre when they go xD
Three 10 year olds who hacked the FTX crypto exchange. They still have $49B to spend.
Plus if they’re all in the trench coat they can go see an R rated movie.
And they only have to buy one ticket.
Or they could just buy a chaperone to get them in.
Or buy the movie theater.
Never mind.
I was looking back on the article of Correa signing with the Giants and noticed some differences in the Zips projections. Obviously Correa is going to lose value in WAR from making the position change, but is there any reason as to why his OPS + is affected so much. The ZIPS projections of Correa with the Giants have him maintaining and OPS + of over 100 through 2031, while here that is only true until 2027. Is there a reason for this as I know that OPS+ is not dependent on position. Correa’s bat will be less valuable as a 3B compared to an SS, but what’s the reason for the considerably worse OPS+ projections? Is there really a chance that Correa becomes a below league average hitter in his age 33 season as 3B but stays league average until age 37 as an SS, a more physical demanding position?
The big issue is that he’s going to be playing half his games in a much less offense friendly park.
Oracle Park PF: 5yr – 98, 3yr – 99, 1yr – 99
Citi Field PF: 5yr – 93, 3yr – 94, 1yr – 94
Oracle Park is worse for home runs, but better for singles, doubles, and triples. Since most of his value does not come from home runs, playing most of his games in a worse offensive environment for him will result in a lower OPS+.
Thanks for the info, I had thought that OPS + accounted for park factors.
It does, but the projections also change based on park. IIRC Khris Davis went from like a 120 to a 102 after getting traded from Milwaukee to Oakland. No one has ever properly explained how this makes even the least bit of sense
If the differences are that drastic maybe they should change the park factors to even everything out. It’s impossible to accurately evaluate a player’s worth with these differences.
But if it’s the park, the differences should be there in year 1, and they’re not. The two projections start about the same but the newer drops off much more sharply. I’m guessing it has to do with 3B in general and SS in general, and how they age.
I believe you are thinking of wRC+. OPS+ just takes the actual (or in this case the 50% confidence projection) OPS value and scales to the league average with said average equal to 100.
Therefore hughduffy is right that the change in scenery will absolutely affect his OPS+ projection, but it would not really change a projected wRC+.
I’m sure someone at FG could elaborate on why they use OPS+ more often in projections, but I assume it is because wRC+ is a more complicated calculation (b/c it is WEIGHTED & ADJUSTED) whereas OPS+ is just based on the OPS which all of us can add up based on the more familiar slash stats and so it is more transparent and yet still sufficiently sabermetrically inclined.
Ops+ is supposed to adjust for park as well….
OPS+ is adjusted for parks.
Park factors are accounted for in OPS+, but usually in a very general fashion that doesn’t account for the more sophisticated effects of park factors on individual components. In general, that’s good enough for OPS+.
If you’re using component park factors to project individual components, like singles, double, triples, and home runs, you’ll get a different result than if you use the general park factor to project the individual components. And, IIRC, ZiPS uses the individual park factor components for projections.
For 2023:
In Citi Field, Correa gets 137 singles, 25 doubles, 1 triple, and 23 home runs.
In Oracle Park, Correa gets 144 singles, 28 doubles, 1 triple, and 22 home runs.
It’s not a huge difference, but over time, the fact that the park factor for singles for Citi Field is 96, but the park factor for singles for Oracle Park is 101 leads to a larger difference that can be seen in the projected OPS+, especially in later years.
Thanks for these details. Does wRC+ or another stat take a more advanced view of park factors? It seems unfair that Correa is devalued by about 5-10 OPS+ points a year simply because of park factors.
Looking at the Glossary page for wRC+, it doesn’t appear that wRC+ takes a more advanced view. That’s because if you’re going to aggregate all the components anyway, you’re going to end up with the overall park factor anyway.
Correa isn’t devalued by 5-10 OPS+ points because of park factors. ZiPS is projecting him to have fewer actual hits and extra base hits because of where he’s playing.
Citi Field is a pitcher’s park, no getting around that fact, and if you aren’t hitting a bunch of home runs, most hitters will lose some value if they’re playing half of their games there.
Makes sense, but if Zips is projecting him to have fewer hits and XBH based on where he’s playing that should be considered under park factors and rightfully adjusted. I just think that wRC+ and OPS+ should do more to neutralize the playing environment. It seems unfair to hitters playing in pitchers’ parks.
wRC+ and OPS+ aren’t measures of talent, they’re measures of outcomes. If the outcomes for a player change because of where he plays the games, the stats should change to reflect those outcomes (and then be adjusted to reflect their value in a neutral context, which is what a park factor is).
Baseball Bobby Axelrod does it again. It’s nice to see a wealthy guy who doesn’t pretend like he can’t just make more money.
Is Correa’s move off of shortstop more Manny Machado or Alex Rodriguez? Either way, with two of the best SS in the game not playing SS, it gets all the more difficult for other teams to plug that hole.
I would say Manny Machado, because Lindor is actually a superior defensive shortstop and not just a more popular player for his team.
Manny because Lindor is an excellent defensive player unlike Jeter.
I remember when the marquee offseason acquisition for the Mets was Michael Cuddyer…we’re living in crazy days and I’m loving it!
And they gave up a freaking draft pick for him smh!
For once I’m glad I’m an old man that wakes up every day at 3 am and what news it was to wake up to! Oh and it is official the Mets are the NWO! This Mets lineup is sick you have eight of the nine projected position players put up a 120 or better OPS+ in 2022 and Alvarez probably will take over by mid season at catcher. I think this is a deep and insanely talented team who can match the 86 team in win the playoffs are a crapshoot obviously but I feel pretty great about the team. It is a great time to be a Mets fan!
So now the Mets have a projected 2023 payroll of more than the Dodgers and Giants COMBINED! (Sure, the Dodgers and Giants could spend more, but I guess so could the Mets!)
Or more than all three of the Red Sox, Rays, and Orioles combined: 3 teams all trying to be competitive in the AL East.
Also, leaving aside the $300+ million for Correa and the deals for Narvaez, Ottavino, Robertson, and Quintana, how many times has a team given out 5 $50+ million deals in one offseason like the Mets have with Correa, Nimmo, Verlander, Senga, and Diaz? It can’t be very often.
Someone on the other thread asked when we would expect to see the Mets’ luxury tax bill exceed the entire payroll of another team.
It is gonna exceed 8-10 teams payrolls.
Their expected tax bill is $115m now – that will exceed the 2022 payrolls of 13(!) teams.
In fairness…the Red Sox are trying to be “competitive” in the East, not competitive.
“Or more than all three of the Red Sox, Rays, and Orioles combined: 3 teams all trying to be competitive in the AL East.”
Eh, I dunno how much the Red Sox are really trying…
(ETA: Dammit Lester beat me to it. Or Cool Lester, not dammit Lester. But still, dammit Lester…)
All snark aside, I do think we can make some predictions going forward about what’s going to happen with the Mets. The Mets have clearly decided that they are willing to outbid almost anybody without a qualifying offer. Between Verlander, Correa (who is seriously not necessary), and Senga–and them not being in on Judge at all–it’s pretty clear that they view all upgrades that just involve money to be fine.
So Mets fans, if you want to know who the Mets will be in on in the future, I have a non-exhaustive list for you.
-Eduardo Rodriguez
-Trevor Story
-JT Realmuto
-Zack Wheeler
-Joc Pederson
-Martin Perez
-Michael Conforto
-Manny Machado (why not? it’s only money…)
Doubt Story opts out.
So, uh, is Brett Baty a first baseman now? Left fielder? Trade bait?
Trade Baty and Mauricio for Ohtani and give him a 500m extension?
Given the big-league club’s current positions of “need,” Syracuse is playing a six-man outfield from now on. Or maybe just tell them all to start working on a slider.
DH to replace Vogelbach next year? At the least, he’s a top prospect who is pre-arb depth, which is valuable. If the Mets are really trying to be like the Dodgers (again, Ben Zauzmer is in the Mets’ FO now and helped to build the Dodgers with Friedman), then this is exactly what you do. The Dodgers had plenty of good young guys who had to be depth pieces because they kept acquiring stars (Kike Hernandez, Gavin Lux, Dustin May, etc.). This is in contrast to the Rockies, who also use good young guys as depth pieces, but it’s because they keep acquiring mid-to-late career free agent veterans who are “good clubhouse guys” and “a veteran presence in the dugout” while hitting .240/.320/.410.
While the part of me that loves prospects is sad that Baty, Mauricio, etc. aren’t going to get a chance to come up and start right away, that’s a strategy that often doesn’t work (look at the White Sox and their underwhelming seasons lately, blowing what everyone thought was a Golden Generation of talent) – the Mets are throwing money at Sure Things, and when Baty, Vientos, Mauricio, get a little older, the landscape will have changed enough that they can deal with those issues when they have to. A lot can change in three years. Three years ago, Christian Yelich slugged .671 and Whit Merrifield had 206 hits.
I think the elephant in the room here is: What was the medical concern here? Is it actually serious? Did the Giants dodge a bullet, or are they screwed? And is this going to wind up being nothing serious for the Mets, or is he just going to be permanently hurt? (I mean, there was already some concern he was just going to be permanently hurt)
I’m leaning towards “the Giants are screwed.” This was absolutely their big play, and they don’t have any shortstop in the system who is an obvious long-term solution. Luciano seems ticketed for the outfield; they have a shortstop in A-ball but…he’s in A-ball.
I am pretty sure the whole point of this offseason was try to get within striking distance of a wild-card spot by signing one extremely good free agent, then make a serious pitch for Ohtani next offseason. I’m not sure what the next play is. Try and sign both Devers and Ohtani next offseason? It’s not ideal.
Boras said that it was something to do with old injuries from before Correa became an MLB player. He lost half a season in the minors with a leg injury iirc, but he hasn’t had an injury to that leg since. So it literally could be anything and the Giants just wanted to back out of the deal.
And you believe Scott Boras? Lol
The Giants basically agreed with him and other sources have also reported it, so yes.
Other sources reported it cuz that’s what he told them. The giants didn’t get into specifics. Could have been another injury or multiple injury concerns
Boras is interesting. As far as I can tell, he never lies. But that doesn’t mean he doesn’t omit important context from time to time and let you draw some faulty conclusions.
I feel like there’s a character in a novel like this who is cursed to always tell the truth and so he finds ways around it…now I can’t remember.
The Aes Sedai in the Wheel of Time series cannot lie (I’d imagine it is a fairly common thing in fantasy series) – however they get round this in all manner of ways.
Funnily enough, the normal citizens view the Aes Sedai with a lot of mistrust and suspicion, because they are so good at getting round the no lying prohibition.
The Wheel of Time turns, and Ages come and pass, leaving memories that become legend. Legend fades to myth, and even myth is long forgotten when the Age that gave it birth comes again. In one Age, called the Third Age by some, an Age yet to come, an Age long past, the Mets began to outspend their crosstown rivals. Steve Cohen was not the beginning. There are neither beginnings nor endings to the Wheel of Time. But he was a beginning.
I haven’t read Wheel of Time but a bunch of people I know have and talk about it so I could have picked it up from there. But it’s entirely possible it’s just based on similar mythology and I read it somewhere else. I associate these things the most with magic and sorcery, like a djinn who always fulfills the exact wording of it.
Being curious, I looked to see if TV Tropes had it, and yes, it seems they do: “Cannot Tell a Lie”, “Exact Words”, and “You Didn’t Ask.” The Aes Sedai are there, as are a whole bunch of Harry Potter examples, the Bene Gesserit in Dune, American Gods, some works of Isaac Asimov…it seems like it could have come from a few different places.
I’m a huge WoT fan, but it’s essentially just a rip-off of Dune combined with a rip-off of Lord of the Rings–Jordan borrows quite liberally from both. What’s incredible is how he weaves everything together into a breathtakingly complex story; nothing will ever surpass it for world building.
Sounds like the movie Liar Liar, but that basic plot is probably a book too…
No, “Liar Liar” involves a more complex curse where he’s forcefully compelled to directly admit the truth without much of a chance to think about it. He also doesn’t have the option to just remain silent, and he’s even compelled to honestly volunteer information in pertinent situations even if not directly asked about it. I think there’s only one time in the whole movie where he manages to get by with creative wording.
Ella Enchanted (the book, not that poor excuse of a movie adaptation)
Sisterhood of the traveling pants
The Orioles’ voided/renegotiated deals were mentioned in the article and they seemed to end up on the right side of each of those… Sele had one good season then rapidly declined, Balfour and Gallardo were never good again. Obviously Correa is in an entirely different talent tier than those guys, but I find it hard to disagree with Ben’s shrug reaction. It’s very possible the Giants found a legit concern, but there is truly no way to know without the benefit of hindsight.
If you’re always betting on pitchers getting injured, you’re going to win most of the time.
Sounds like a good bet
It does seem curious that Boras was quick to go to the Mets rather than open up the bidding again. I guess once word came out about the medicals, he wasn’t going to get the same offer, so he pivoted back to the Mets.
And he knew Cohen would be his best suitor because no other team ownership has been this vocal/desperate with adding talent with “whatever it takes”.
According to the San Francisco Chronicle, the issue involves an older injury that dates back prior to Correa’s MLB career. That means his various back and neck issues weren’t the issue.
Correa suffered a season-ending leg injury in June 2014, while he was 19 and still in High A. Correa required arthroscopic surgery to repair a fractured right fibula and minor ligament damage.
That seems to be the most likely injury, unless there was an injury before his professional career began that hasn’t been uncovered.
Having had a leg injury myself, I can understand why the Giants might be concerned about whether it would be an issue in the latter half of the contract. That said, it will be tough to know whether it will be an issue until the latter half of the contract.
I wonder if it was buyer’s remorse.
No, according to Scott Boras. Slusser didn’t have any sources within the org
Then I think we have to believe Scott Boras, unless further information comes out.
Boras can’t lawfully reveal personal health information of his client, Correa, without permission. Boras is a lawyer and is covered by HIPAA. In this case, I can imagine Correa giving Boras permission to discuss this in general terms without actually disclosing what issue the Giants actually had with Correa’s physical.
Boras and Correa have already talked about his back issues publicly, so if that was what the Giants were concerned about, there wouldn’t be any reason why they couldn’t discuss that further.
I have to think that it is an issue that a short term contract wouldn’t flag as a big issue, but an extra long one would flag as a potential issue. So, for an infielder, previous ankle/leg injury might be cause for concern as Correa gets towards 40.
sickos.jpg
As it stands now, per ESPN’s Jeff Passan, Cohen will have to pay roughly $101 million in luxury tax fees next year, more than what 10 other MLB teams are paying for their entire 26-man rosters next season. Wow!
All jokes aside, we’re totally getting a salary cap in the next CBA aren’t we?
Doubt the players go for it without a floor too.
I’m assuming there will be. The owners always get what they want unfortunately… Luxury tax, draft slots/hard caps, expanded playoffs, etc. I think this is something they won’t be denied on. I could be wrong, but owners tend to crack down when other owners exploit anything. Before it was draft classes and large IFA bonuses and in the next CBA they were heavily restricted. I think this is next. I hope I’m wrong.
The MLBPA has always fought tooth and nail against a hard salary cap. It was probably the biggest reason for the ’94-’95 strike.
Cap, floor, revenue sharing, guaranteed split!
No but we’ll get a longer lockout unfortunately
All jokes aside, why would MLBPA want to curtail the spending of the Mets, Padres, and Phillies?
The FANS don’t like it. Neither players nor owners care about fans when it comes to CBA.
I think people of a certain age have the memory of Tony Clark floating in the front of their brains and think that the Union will always just roll over, even though before and after Tony Clark that did not and is not happening.
Tony Clark became the head of the MLBPA years before he was ready because of the untimely death of the previous executive director of the MLBPA, Michael Weiner, due to a brain tumor in 2013. Weiner’s term was supposed to take him through the negotiation of the 2016 CBA.
Tony Clark has said that he was not as prepared for the 2016 CBA as he needed to be. It’s why the MLBPA hired Bruce Meyer to be its chief negotiator for the 2022 CBA.
There is every indication that the MLBPA will not just roll over on the next CBA.
The players may not roll over, but they’ve lost significant ground in the last several CBAs and in my opinion they were clear losers in this past CBA. I mean what did they even get for playoff expansion? Nothing in particular.
The players were not going to get back all the ground they had lost in one CBA.
What did they get for playoff expansion? The $50 million pre-arbitration bonus pool, along with various anti-tanking rules alterations. In exchange, the league got $85 million more in extra TV revenue thanks to the 12-team format. But all of it was part of a larger set of changes.
If you think a prearb bonus pool of 50M and the top two players who finish in ROY getting a full year of service time is worth expanded playoffs (not just the $ value, teams want an excuse to not spend in free agency), I’ve got a bridge to sell you. Players *should* be getting a year of service time already if they play most of the year as a rookie. Those anti-tanking measures are a joke and teams don’t care about them. That draft lottery is also a joke. A step in the right direction perhaps, but nothing that will change the way teams operate.
That was…exactly my point????
I thought your point was worth adding color and context.
The Phillies are barely over the luxury tax line. I think you mean the Dodgers.
People are going to be talking about the Correa saga for years.
We’ll never fully know the fine details about what transpired, but my goodness! At the end of the day, a player with an injury history spanning most of his 20s will be relied upon to contribute at a new position at an elite level for well into at a portion of his 30s, for this deal to have value. And he has no experience at the new position.
The difficulty in switching from infield positions is underrated, especially for switching to 3B. The ball feels like it comes at you much quicker off the bat at 3B, and at slightly different angles (which can be hard to judge in split second), and you have to throw farther. There are understood techniques that can be taught, but it is not as easy as it looks. Playing amateur baseball many years ago, I was asked to play 3B for a few innings, was used to playing 2B & occasional SS, and it was kinda terrifying. They call it the hot corner for a reason. I’m sure Correa is a good enough athlete to make the switch, but learning the techniques necessary to play a new position well, takes a lot of work and even good athletes don’t always succeed at it.
However if Correa adapts well to 3B, and does so quickly, then the Mets are basically fielding an all-star infield, and barring poor health of their geriatric pair of aces in Sept.-Oct., they might be favorites to win the World Series in 2023. And I guess that’s why they did whatever it took to secure his services, no matter how ill-advised on the back end. Just look at the final 6 years ZIPs is projecting—its ugly, and it feels optimistic to me based on his injury history and how taller players age
He has *some* experience from the last WBC when the PR team had him at 3B,Lindor at SS and Baez at 2B. He looked fine. At his size 3B has always been in his future.
The success of this deal seems largely dependent on how well Correa takes to 3B. If he’s a +13 like DRS thinks next year, then it’s great and the position change might even help him stay on the field more.
If he’s a scratch defender, much less so because his top of the line for SS bat is very good but less spectacular at 3B
Arenado should’ve opted out and Devers is not going to be in Boston after next year
With the financial turmoil predicted for markets in ’23, not sure teams will be as agreeable to hand over such lengthy guarantees. Considering the teams that willingly spent already did so heavily this winter, there should be more hesitation to lock in money as those teams will be less active, leaving fewer teams to compete. Of the teams likely to participate, the main ones that come to mind are the Dodgers and Red Sox. Rumors have the Dodgers targeting Ohtani. While the Sox’s loud avoidance of lengthy top-tier signings could suggest they are calculating.
The Mets will almost certainly be in on Ohtani. Eppler played a role in getting him to the Angels and they have to be attractive if what he wants is guaranteed relevancy.
The Dodgers offer that as well and maybe he doesnt want to move off the west coast but at the least Cohen is going to bid up the contract
The 2026 lockout will be fun.
I said it in a different comment, but I really am surprised that the other owners approved Cohen. Did they not think he wasn’t going to spend like a mad man? He’s just making most of them look bad.
He’s making them look like what they are.
They are getting $100m+ in hush money for at least the next few years. Might be worth it.
Comparing the ZIPS projections from the two articles is interesting. They start out about the same — 5.4 WAR, 124 OPS+ vs. 5.3 WAR, 122 OPS+. But for the Giants, he was projected to age much better. He remained above 5 WAR for 3 years, whereas in this projection, he’s down to 4.6 by year three. Is this all because shortstops are projected to age better than third basemen?
Could just be the 5 runs/year in positional adjustments.
Still looks optimistic to me, though – 5 consecutive years of 500+ PA.
It’s not the position though. His OPS+ gets worse much more quickly in the new projection. By 2028, he’s down 26 points in this one, compared to only 17 in the one for the Giants.
Correa gets more defensive runs due to the shift to 3B. What hurts his value is playing half his games in the pitcher’s park that is Citi Field. Oracle Park is bad for home runs, but slightly above average for other hits. Citi Field is bad for singles, doubles, triples, and home runs, and also reduces walks and increases strike outs.
Correa is also projected to have fewer AB as a Met, though I’m not sure what the cause of that is.
Well, he’ll definitely be batting lower in the order!
Think this is horrible for baseball. Just took one of the best shortstops and turned him into a 3B. When Cohen signs Ohtani and Nola next year and bumps his team outlay from the 500 mil he’s spending this year closer to 700, who besides Mets fans will be happy with the state of the game. If they win 120 games some year, does it get noted with an asterisk in the record books?
This is insanity
“* Most wins in an MLB season.”
Probably up to the author of the books to decide if that should be noted.
Take a deep breath.
The baseball season is long, stuff happens, and there’s 14 other teams that are going to do everything tbey can to derail the gold plated express. At least 4 of them have a good chance of taking a bite out of those “120 wins”.
Winning the hype wars in december doesn’t aleays translate into october joy.
Cohen is trying to stack the deck. It may payoff, it might not.
First they have to play the games.
That is where the resl fun lies.
In 2005 the Yankees payroll was:
285% higher than average
194% higher than the average of the top 10 spenders
305% higher than the middle 3rd
473% higher than the bottom 10
The top third averaged 146% the average
The middle averaged 93% the average
The bottom third averaged 60%
Today, unless my math is wrong (and more signings will happen:
Mets at 244% average
162% higher than the average of the top 10
249% higher than the middle third avg
467% higher than the bottom third avg
The top 1/3 of teams spend 150% more than avg
Middle third spends 98% of average
Bottom spends 52% of average.
It’s really not all that proportionally different. If anything the bottom 1/3 in spenders need to spend more.
So how about an asterisk next to owners? “Lost 120 games and invested historically low amounts of money in their teams compared to proportional averages”
My fav comment on the thread kudos. Hope you get that Strider article you’ve been asking for.
This is just great Fangraphs meta humor going on here 💀
The Mets will hit $1B in payroll before I get the Spencer Strider extension article.
That math changes quite a bit when you add in the luxury tax the Mets have to pay. If you change it so it is comparing total payroll plus luxury tax spent, I’d think the Mets are higher than the 2005 Yankees.
The 2023 Mets are spending over $500M on payroll plus tax. They will be outspending every team except the Yankees and Padres by at least double.
With the luxury tax, they are outspending the 2nd place team (the Yankees) by 68%, if my math is correct. They are outspending the 3rd highest spender (the Padres) by over 90%. Their spending is 225% of the spending of the average of teams 2 through 10.
And every MLB team is owned by billionaires. Every team is a business, and just like any business in the USA, top corporate officials could take home far less money and still be fabulously wealthy if they reinvested more into their business and employees. Is Cohen spending an absurd amount of money? Of course he is. But what else is he going to do with it? Put it in his pocket? Every worker for every business in this country wishes their boss would do the same.
“Every team is a business.”
And the point of a business is maximizing profits.
The point of a business is whatever you want it to be. Making a profit, certainly. But because these are privately-owned businesses, the owners don’t have the weight of corporate law behind them, which would require them to maximize profits in order to ensure returns to shareholders. The maximization of profits as a privately-owned business is a choice, not a requirement. At least technically.
And, of course, there’s a lot of research from the last 30 years showing that businesses who prioritize maximizing year-on-year profits over everything else…tend to be less profitable, long-term!
Look!
It’s 80s guy from Futurama!
And half of that luxury tax is redistributed to the rest of the league’s teams that aren’t over the CBT threshold.
So the Giants immediately pounced on Correa knowing there was a medical issue, and the Twins supposedly offered a 10-year deal to resign presumably aware of his medicals as well. Could it really have been that big of an issue?
It seems to me like they were looking for leverage to renegotiate, and Boras wasn’t having any of it.
Giants fans are really ripping into Zaidi. This was probably an ownership call, but in any case getting cold feet about spending that much on a guy who until pretty recently had trouble staying on the field seems to me evidence of sanity. That the Twins were willing to risk it–well, that’s on them; for the first time in their history they felt a little crazy. (Cohen, for whom there are no risks, is another story altogether.)
So Hal Steinbrenner says Cohen’s spending should be looked at lmao.
If Hal Steinbrenner wants to introduce more generous revenue sharing protocols to discourage this sort of behavior from Cohen, he should speak up…
He was fighting for a lower tax threshold in the latest CBA!
Looks like ZIPs expects Correa to defensively be the Second Coming of Brooks Robinson at 3rd base. Didn’t other defensive rating systems have Correa as having rather an ‘ehh’ year at shortstop last season?
This is a lousy signing by the Mets. Paying $$$$$$$$$$$ to send Rosario to the bench. Betting on a good-not-great hitter to retain his defensive value over the years (they largely don’t) while shifting to a new, easier position.
THEN! add in that a Giants franchise with no history of obsessing over medicals has seen SOMEthing here they sure didn’t like.
Like all of us, Cohen will tire of his new toy in a couple of years. And start slashing payroll.
Rosario?
I think Richie is confusing Eddie Rosario with Eduardo Escobar.
In what universe is Carlos Correa not an upgrade over Eduardo Escobar?
Or he still think Amed Rosario is on the Mets?
Paying TOP $$$$$$$$$ in a long-term contract for defensive value is a sucker’s bet. It just ages too poorly.
Since Dave Cameron left, has there been ONE? Big $$$$$$$$$ signing that any Fangraphs writer didn’t like (in writing)? Just one??
This is a case of “you’re right in general, but wrong on the specifics.” Ben Clemens questioned the reliever market earlier this offseason. Jay Jaffe had some concerns over Kris Bryant’s deal with the Rockies. And Dan Szymborski will sometimes say the deal was too rich, although it has to be really off because his model values wins at something like $9M.
That said, I do think FG should to pick their Top 5 and Bottom 5 contracts, or something like that. It’s not really interesting if you wind up saying most or all of them are good.
We just don’t see the obviously terrible ones much any more (unless the Rockies are feeling frisky). Szymborski noted that Rendon was a likely overpay, but the Angels were essentially already pot committed.
No one is handing out Miguel Cabrera-style 300m extensions that begin at age 33.
There were plenty of questions about what the Rangers were thinking last winter.
A lot of this season’s look pretty wild, but I think we have a lot of evidence that this is market value now.
Ron Shandler notes in Baseball forecaster that Correa had an uptick in flyballs in the 2nd half of 22. This could lead to more HRs. With all of the bats in that lineup supporting him, Correa will likely have a career year at the plate.
FWIW, there’s a story now up by Jeff Passan at ESPN Insider that confirms both that the injury in question was Correa’s 2014 broken fibula, and that the Giants attempted to renegotiate after backing out. Not having seen the medical report ourselves I guess there’s a limit to how firmly we can draw the conclusion it was purely a pretext, but it sure seems at least a bit unprofessional. Hard to imagine what could’ve been news to them about an 8-year-old injury that hasn’t appeared to affect the player’s entire major-league career.
Correa has had a slowly declining sprint speed through his major league career. In 2022, his statcast running stats put him in the 44.6 percentile rank with a 27.1 ft/sec sprint speed.
Having had a broken leg myself, I never ran the same afterwards, and it has gotten worse with age. It’s possible that the terms they offered were based on assumptions on how he would age the next 13 years that didn’t account for his previous injury. I wouldn’t worry about it if it was a contract through age 35. Anything past that and you do have concerns about how that will affect his speed and movement as he ages.
It is a failure on the Giants part. If they did their due diligence, they should have known about the injury, and had some idea how it would impact a long-term contract. I’m not sure how much they negotiated after backing out, but I’m guessing whatever terms they offered were worse than the Mets offer.
Cheap move by the Giants. Good luck putting people in the seats. Feels like Farhan is operating the Giants like a fantasy baseball team, trying to find the edge by not overspending. The problem is, in fantasy baseball, teams operate with equal budgets. Goes without saying, not so in real baseball.
The decision to back off of Correa’s deal was an ownership level decision that Farhan didn’t control.
Maybe not