NLCS Game Three Turned on Decision to Let Buehler Hit

With his stellar performance down the stretch — including in the Game 163 tiebreaker that won the NL West — Walker Buehler may have supplanted Clayton Kershaw as the Dodgers’ ace. In Monday night’s Game Three of the NLCS, manager Dave Roberts nonetheless went a bridge too far with the 24-year-old fireballer. For five innings, the young righty had pitched brilliantly, if not flawlessly, against the Brewers, allowing just a lone run. But that run loomed large. For the third time in the series, the Dodgers had failed to put a dent in the Brewers’ starter, and so they entered the bottom of the fifth trailing 1-0 against Jhoulys Chacin, who to that point, had allowed just two hits and two walks (one intentional) himself.

On Chacin’s fourth pitch of the inning, Yasmani Grandal — who has had a rough series on both sides of the ball — dunked a slider into left field for a ground-rule double. Enrique Hernandez lined out to bring up Buehler, who to that point, had thrown 78 pitches and struck out eight while yielding just two hits and one walk. The Brewers had done their damage in the first inning, when Ryan Braun followed a six-pitch walk to Christian Yelich with a scorching double to left field for the game’s only run. From there, Buehler had settled down, striking out the next four hitters and retiring 14 of 16. He was dealing.

Nonetheless, the Dodgers offense was gasping for air, and Roberts had a full and rested bullpen thanks to the off day. He’d stacked his lineup with lefties — Joc Pederson, Max Muncy, and Cody Bellinger — against Chacin, who struggles without the platoon advantage. That left Roberts with a bench full of righties, namely Brian Dozier, David Freese, Matt Kemp, Chris Taylor, and, if necessary, backup catcher Austin Barnes. No doubt the skipper had his eye on using some of those righties to combat lefty Josh Hader later in the game. Still, Freese, Kemp, and Taylor all posted a wRC+ of 113 or better against righties this year, though only Taylor had been that strong last year. Of that trio, both Freese and Taylor handled sliders from righties well this year, with wOBAs of .388 and .336 according to Baseball Savant; over the past three years, however, only Taylor (.350) has been above .300 among that trio.

So the Dodgers were down a run in a high-leverage spot (LI = 1.98) with a run expectancy of 1.05 runs and a win expectancy of 42.6% according to our play log. That run expectancy assumes an average hitter, not a pitcher who hit a measly .163/.200/.163 in 47 PA for a wRC+ of 2 — yes, two. Even without the platoon advantage, it made sense for Roberts to pull his pitcher. In general, such a strategy is a net gain, even when the pitcher being replaced is a good one. The offensive upgrade is significant, managers tend to overestimate how long they’ll stick with the starter in question, and eventually the times-through-the-order penalty shows up to degrade the starter’s performance anyway. And again, here the Dodgers had better-than-average options to pinch-hit.

Instead, Roberts let Buehler hit, and the kid didn’t even take the bat off his shoulder while facing four pitches from Chacin, striking out looking. Pederson followed with a loud out to center field to end the inning and the threat, and the Dodgers’ win expectancy sank to 32.3%. It would never get higher while they were at bat, and the team wouldn’t even see another situation with a run expectancy above 1.0 until the ninth inning.

In the sixth, Buehler retired Yelich and Braun (the Brewers’No. 2 and 3 hitters in the order) but allowed a two-out triple to Travis Shaw (aided by a misread from Bellinger in center field), who scored on a curveball in the dirt that squirted away from Grandal, a wild pitch that gave the Brewers a 2-0 lead. With his pitch count at 88, and the Dodger offense still flatlining, Buehler returned for the seventh as well. He remained in the game after allowing a one-out double to Erik Kratz, then served up a 356-foot two-run homer to Orlando Arcia that extended the Brewers’ lead to 4-0 and put the ballgame just out of the Dodgers’ reach, their bases-loaded ninth inning against Jeremy Jeffress notwithstanding.

Roberts’ decision to stick with Buehler wasn’t nearly as egregious as Aaron Boone’s reluctance to pull Luis Severino or CC Sabathia in the ALDS against the Red Sox, only to watch both dig deeper holes. National League baseball, with the pitchers batting (or not) and double-switches, is a different beast. We’ll never know whether the Dodgers would have plated a run or more had Taylor (or somebody else) hit for Buehler, and we’ll never know how the bullpen would have fared thereafter. The unit looked like a shaky proposition heading into the postseason, below average relative to the field, but entered Monday night having allowed three runs in 20.1 innings this postseason, with a 21:6 strikeout-to-walk ratio. Had Ryan Madson or Dylan Floro or whoever Roberts brought in combined to allow three more runs in a 1-0 game, Roberts would have been barbecued in the media for not sticking with his ace — or his co-ace, or whatever — particularly with the low pitch count. Not pinch-hitting for Buehler was the safe call, the conventional move. Pinch-hitting for him would have been the aggressive one, and for whatever reason, Roberts chose not to take the chance.

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The decision, of course, was hardly the only reason the Dodgers lost. They went 0-for-10 with runners in scoring position and struck out a total of 14 times against a Brewers staff that dominated pretty much from start to finish, save for Jeffress’s ninth-inning hiccup. Chacin pitched 5.1 scoreless innings, running the postseason tally for Milwaukee’s starters (or “starters”) to 25.2 innings with 12 hits and one run allowed. Corey Knebel struck out four of the five hitters he faced, and they needed just eight pitches from Hader, likely retaining his availability for Game Four. Meanwhile, the Brewers’ 7-8-9 hitters (Kratz, Arcia, Chacin, and substitute second baseman Hernan Perez) combined for six of the Brewers’ 14 total bases on the night; for the series, the bottom three spots in the order are hitting .250/.333/.594 with three homers in 36 PA, helping to cover for the fact that Yelich, Braun and Moustakas are a combined 6-for-34 with a lone double and three walks between them.

Some nights, things go your way, and the Brewers caught most of the breaks in this one. They’re two wins away from their first trip to the World Series since 1982. Had Roberts been proactive and hit for Buehler, that might not be the case.





Brooklyn-based Jay Jaffe is a senior writer for FanGraphs, the author of The Cooperstown Casebook (Thomas Dunne Books, 2017) and the creator of the JAWS (Jaffe WAR Score) metric for Hall of Fame analysis. He founded the Futility Infielder website (2001), was a columnist for Baseball Prospectus (2005-2012) and a contributing writer for Sports Illustrated (2012-2018). He has been a recurring guest on MLB Network and a member of the BBWAA since 2011, and a Hall of Fame voter since 2021. Follow him on BlueSky @jayjaffe.bsky.social.

56 Comments
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FrodoBeck
7 years ago

I agree entirely that Buehler should have been hit for.

I also agree entirely that maybe the rest of the offense should have done something, anything, and it wouldn’t have been a big deal.

Dave TMember since 2016
7 years ago
Reply to  FrodoBeck

I also agree that Roberts should have hit for Buehler in the 5th inning, and I don’t think that it should have been a particularly difficult decision in light of both the general math and game-specific context. Buehler was on the 3rd time through the order with the 2-3-4 hitters due up next inning, including two of those hitters being opposite handed, which lines up as a pretty logical time to use Alex Wood. The Brewers had both Hader and Knebel available, so the Dodgers shouldn’t count on many scoring chances for the rest of the game.

That said, the headline of “NLCS Game 3 Turned on Decision to Let Buehler Hit” is so overstated that I have to classify it as just as questionable as Roberts’ decision. (I realize that, per common practice, Jay may not write the headline.) NLCS Game 3 ultimately turned on the Dodgers’ inability to score any runs during the other 8 innings of the game, not Roberts’ decision in the bottom of the 5th. There’s a distinction between saying that Roberts’ decision looks bad from a probabilistic standpoint (it does look bad) and saying that we should think after the game that it was the decisive factor in the game’s outcome (that’s a very hard case to make).

stever20Member since 2017
7 years ago

I thought it was interesting that Roberts left Buehler in to hit there- but also even worse, I thought he was insane to bring him out for the 7th. He had thrown 88 pitches and had given up that loud hit in the 6th inning. I thought that was maybe even worse of a decision than the hitting one.

Roger McDowell Hot Foot
7 years ago
Reply to  stever20

This was my feeling too. Leaving him in to hit in the 5th was on one level of maybe-questionable judgement, but letting him keep pitching in the 7th looking gassed, and especially after Kratz’s hit, was on another.

Original Greaser Bob
7 years ago

Jay, well done. This serves as a great intro to win expectancy and LI. This reminds me of the types of articles that got me interested in Fangraphs over 10 years ago, not the current Litigiousgraphs stuff.

Lou BrownMember since 2017
7 years ago

You are not La Boeuf.

scooter262
7 years ago

My take is that Roberts is a bit afraid of his bullpen (and probably rightfully so): he really thought he needed the extra outs he could get from Buehler. It was obviously a difficult decision: this is exactly the kind of situation that makes some fans question the DH–the manager needs to MANAGE. (Personally, I like the DH: but it does make the manager’s in-game tactical decisions easier.) I can’t fault Dave Roberts for his choice in the moment.

stever20Member since 2017
7 years ago
Reply to  scooter262

Yeah, he absolutely doesn’t have the same confidence in the bullpen that he had last year. Last year- there’s a 99.99% chance that he pinch hits for Buehler in the 5th in that same situation.

johnforthegiants
7 years ago
Reply to  stever20

I have a different take. Obviously the bullpen was better last year but he had absolutely zero trust in anyone but the top three, no matter how big the dodgers’ leads were, so he exhausted them. I think it’s the same general problem, that there aren’t enough pitchers he trusts, there’s just a different manifestation this year.

stever20Member since 2017
7 years ago

he had more than just the big 3. Yes Jansen, Morrow, and Maeda- but Tony Watson also….

So he’s using his starters a lot more- and has for a while. And they aren’t holding up well…. look at the last start for the Dodgers starters now…..
Hill 2 er 4.1 ip 5 bb 3 k
Kershaw 4 er 3 ip 2 bb 2 k
Ryu 2 er 4.1 ip 1 bb 4 k
Buehler 4 er 7 ip 1 b 8 k
so thats 12 er in 18.2 ip with 9 bb and 17 k. a 5.79 ERA.

With only one that was even close to a decent start being Buehler last night(take out the 7th inning and it’s 10 er in 17.2 ip- 5.09 ERA).

Dodgers starters in September threw the 4th most innings per start of anyone in MLB. 5.58 innings per start. And that includes 6 starts from Wood and Stripling where they went 20.1 innings. You take that out and the 4 playoff starters threw in September 6.18 innings per start.

last year they were #12 at 5.01 innings per start. Playoff starters were at 5.63 innings per start in September. So about 2/3 of an inning less….

sadtromboneMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  scooter262

So maybe it’s just me, but I would think that between Maeda, Wood, Baez, Jansen, Madson, and Urias that they have enough to cover them. I really don’t think it’s a problem to keep a pitcher in who’s smoking batters, and also does help save the bullpen a bit…but it’s not that obvious to me that Roberts should be afraid of his bullpen. Just because you don’t have peak Brandon Morrow and Kenley Jansen obliterating batters doesn’t mean you don’t have anyone at all.

Walter
7 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

As I read this piece, I instantly went over to see how the Dodgers bullpen looked this year, and in generally they are good, but not great. FIPs below 4 aplenty. Several in the low 3 or sub 3 range too. I don’t really see why Roberts should be scared of using these guys. Almost none of them are worse than Beuhler once you take into account the times-through-the-order effect.

I can’t give Roberts a pass here, this was a f-up. Plus, you just have to be more aggressive on offense if you’re the team trailing.

johnforthegiants
7 years ago
Reply to  Walter

I confess that i am also inclined to blame roberts, but i always get wildly downvoted if i’m the first to do it

stever20Member since 2017
7 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Well, wouldn’t exactly count on Urias at all. Why he’s on the roster instead of Alexander is a mystery.

stever20Member since 2017
7 years ago
Reply to  stever20

or I would say Pat Venditte- would think a switch pitcher in a short series like that would be incredibly valuable…

Alfrs
7 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

To be a clear, we are talking about a 1 run deficit, with 14 outs to work with as an offense, and 12 left to get on defense. Sending him out to get one more inning doesn’t seem all that terrible of a move to me, however keeping him out there for the whole 7th was a quite a bit more questionable. You’ve gotta score more than 1 run, the flip side of this is encouraging Maddon for pulling Lester, which for all the good Maddon does do, I felt that move was misplaced.

johnforthegiants
7 years ago
Reply to  scooter262

Yes, this is exactly the problem. Last year he exhausted his top three relievers (jansen, morrow, and maeda) by using them.to protect every lead no matter how big. Iirc there were three games where the dodgers had 5 run leads and one game where the dodgers had a 10 run.lead and still roberts wouldn’t let anyone else touch the ball. Finally it caught up with him in the world series, especially the catastrophic game 5. I am not sure if the fault is with management for not getting enough good relievers or roberts for not trusting enough of his relievers, but there’s clearly a problem.

stever20Member since 2017
7 years ago

Well part of it was them wanting to reset the tax situation…. They could have gotten some better relief help at the deadline but they went out and their big relief acquistion was…… John Axford.

they were able to get Ryan Madson in August- and he’s helped some.

Walter
7 years ago
Reply to  stever20

The Dodgers relievers did have the 8th best FIP in the game this year. I don’t think we get to blame the FO.

stever20Member since 2017
7 years ago
Reply to  Walter

and last year it was a full 1/3 of a run lower. #4 in MLB and #1 in the NL. It’s not the same bullpen at all. They never replaced Morrow at all. They had 7 guys last year throw to a sub 3 ERA out of the pen with at least 20 innings(5 with 40). This year it’s 4(with 2 with 40).

Dave TMember since 2016
7 years ago

I agree with the overall point that Roberts overworked Jansen, Morrow, and Maeda last season, but I get very tired of this “10 run lead” being brought up devoid of context. That game was the clinching Game 5 of the NLCS. It’s very defensible that Jansen and Morrow each pitched an inning in that game simply to get in some work. Roberts knew that the Dodgers would have 4 days off after winning that game, and the time between appearances for Jansen and Morrow would have been at least 6 days if they didn’t pitch in that game because neither pitched in Game 4 of the NLCS.

One of the 5 run leads with which Jansen pitched was Game 1 of the NLDS, which I think is more questionable than Game 5 of the NLCS but still understandable as a way for Jansen to get work in a low leverage situation after 5 days off.

The egregious overuse was in the World Series, in my opinion. Jansen pitched in 6 of those games (including 3 multi-inning appearances) and Morrow pitched in all 7 of them. Maeda pitched in 4 games but had a very questionable multi-inning appearance in Game 3 when trailing by multiple runs.

There was highly dubious use of Maeda and Morrow in Game 3, a Darvish start where the Dodgers fell behind early. Maeda pitched 2.2 innings (42 pitches) with the Dodgers behind 3 or 4 runs the entire time that he was pitching. Morrow pitched in that game – his 3rd appearance in 4 games – with the Dodgers trailing by 2 runs. And there was a not surprising impact from that game on the next couple games, because then Maeda wasn’t available for Game 4 and Morrow would be pitching for the 4th time in 5 days if he was used in Game 4.

Then, in Game 4 of the World Series, Roberts was provided a good spot to avoid using Jansen in a win when the Dodgers scored in the top of the 9th to change a tie game into a 6-1 lead. Instead, he still brought Jansen into that game, even knowing that the overall context was that Game 5 was the next day, Morrow was up to pitching 4 times in 5 days (used correctly in Game 4 when it was tied), and Maeda probably wouldn’t be available for a lengthy outing in Game 5 due to his 42 pitches in Game 3.

My two conclusions that I’d take from this:

(1) Roberts had a bullpen usage pattern last playoffs that worked well when winning the LDS in 3 games and LCS in 5 games – with lots of rest before/after each of those series – but predictably wasn’t likely to work well in a series that extended to 6 or 7 games, especially if Jansen, Morrow, and/or Maeda still pitched in games that the Dodgers lost.

(2) Roberts had logical opportunities to save some of his bullets from that trio of relievers in WS Game 3 where the Dodgers fell behind 4-0 early (no need to use any of them absent a big comeback) and in WS Game 4 where they took a 5-run lead in the 9th inning (no need to use Jansen at that point), but instead he still used those relievers as detailed above.

johnforthegiants
7 years ago
Reply to  Dave T

Yup.

About the 5th game nlds usage with a 10run lead–i will acknowledge that in normal circumstances and in isolation this would have been justifiable. But it was apparent at the time (to me at least) that roberts had every intention to run jansen and morrow into the ground and this would just ad dto it.

Dave TMember since 2016
7 years ago

To that point, in Game 3 of last year’s NLCS it was questionable to have Morrow pitch the 8th inning with a 5-run lead and then more questionable to make a panicky move of bringing Jansen into the 9th inning with that same lead after Stripling allowed the first two batters in the 9th to reach base. I’ll admit that as a manager I would tempted by his apparent logic – put the hammer down to get a 3-0 lead in the LCS – but I still think it’s overly risk averse.

That said, I’ll still maintain that his biggest problem was that Roberts didn’t think through how his usage would work over a longer series. Last year’s breakdown of usage for LCS and LDS combined (over two weeks, October 6 to 19) vs. the World Series (over nine days):

Jansen: 7 games and 8 IP’s over combined LCS/LDS; 6 games and 8.2 IP’s in World Series

Morrow: 7 games and 8.1 IP’s combined LCS/LDS; 7 games and 5.1 IP’s in World Series (and the IP’s in the WS are deceptively low due to a 4 batter appearance where he didn’t get any outs)

Maeda: 5 games and 5 IP’s combined LCS/LDS; 4 games and 5.2 IP’s in World Series

These pitchers are all get more or less the same use in the 9 days of the World Series as in the two weeks of the two prior playoff rounds combined, with notably heavy World Series workloads for Jansen and Morrow.

WoundedSprinterMember since 2018
7 years ago

That makes three or more posts on the same basic issue — judging by post-season last year and this, Roberts only trusts his “sure thing” relievers.

I’m not sure this is wise. High leverage innings are magnified in a seven game “mini season” precisely because of small sample size — you won’t see many of them, so the luck won’t even out.

It’s also a deeply peculiar mindset for an NL manager.

vtsoxfan
7 years ago
Reply to  scooter262

See, I’m of the mindset where this situation makes me wish the NL had the DH as well. The manager had to choose between an abysmal hitter (and thus fewer runs) and bullpenning the rest of the game. Neither results in an exciting atmosphere. “Oh, let’s spend the next 5 innings shuttling between interchangeable, practically anonymous relievers, with 3 minute pitching changes between each one” vs. “Oh, this rally died because they let the starting pitcher hit”… both are deflating.

tb.25
7 years ago
Reply to  vtsoxfan

If you think the dodger’s bullpen is full of “interchangeable, practically anonymous” relievers, then you don’t know enough about baseball to have an informed enough opinion on the DH.

Captain Tenneal
7 years ago
Reply to  tb.25

I agree with him. 80+% of relievers are interchangeable and practically anonymous.

johnforthegiants
7 years ago
Reply to  tb.25

The problem is that roberts is managing as though the great majority of his relievers are anonymous enough that he won’t trust then enough to use them in an important situation

sadtromboneMember since 2020
7 years ago

Two Brewers-related thoughts that this article brought up for me:

1) Jeffress looks like a mess this postseason. Maybe he’s just not able to handle the high-leverage spots right now?

2) What the heck has gotten into Erik Kratz this postseason?

SpiggyMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

As a Jays fan who doesn’t pay much attention to the NL, I was shocked to see Jeffress was so good this year; I still remembered him as the guy with a great arm but no control. If I had to guess, I’d say that it’s not that he can’t handle the high-leverage spots, but that the post-season just has him amped up so much that he’s overthrowing like he used to.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  Spiggy

Jeffress has been pretty good for the Brewers. He nearly washed out of the league because of control issues, and was good enough as a closer for the Brewers in 2016 that he was dealt to the Rangers with Lucroy for Brinson/Ortiz/Cordell. Then he had substance abuse problems again, came back to the Brewers, and was good again.

He reminds me a little bit of Jim Johnson (in terms of overall performance, not anything else), who kept putting up good numbers for the Orioles and Braves, only to be traded and for him to completely fall apart.

johnforthegiants
7 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

He’s definitely pitching very poorly by his standards. He isn’t just getting unlucly. But i would assume he just happens to have hit a bad spell at the wrong time. He handled high leverage spots pretty well during the regular season.

Dave TMember since 2016
7 years ago

I agree that Jeffress is most likely just having a bad spell at the wrong time.

For example, his numbers this August over 14.1 innings were a 4.42 FIP and 3.64 xFIP, including 12.7% BB rate. So far this postseason, Jeffress has 4.22 FIP and 3.09 xFIP, including 9.1% BB rate. August seems less like a slump because his ERA outperformed his peripherals then (1.88 ERA) and is underperforming them now (6.35 postseason ERA), but the peripherals make the case that he struggled just as much during a full month of the regular season.

One point that does stand out is that Jeffress had already reached career highs for appearances (73) and innings pitched (76.2) during the regular season. I can’t really criticize the Brewers much if at all for that usage. It’s not as if they made the postseason with any big margin of error, and it does appear that they tried to moderate Jeffress’ workload late in the season (10.2 innings pitched in the last month of the regular season). Knebel pitching well after being briefly optioned to AAA made that decision easier for the team, and Knebel was used heavily in the last month of the regular season (16.1 innings pitched).

nathanjMember since 2024
7 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I don’t think Jeffress is currently healthy. He wasn’t in Chicago (game 163) due a medical issue related to epilepsy.
In general, since he’s been so good in his 6 years with the Brewers and average/below average elsewhere, I wonder if the Brewers are just better at managing at his recurring medical issues.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
7 years ago
Reply to  nathanj

Part of it is–frankly–that Jeremy Jeffress has some addiction problems. Whatever support structure the Brewers have in place, it seems to work better for him than whatever other teams have done.

TheGarrettCooperFanClub
7 years ago

this game in so many ways reminded me of game 4 of the ALDS this year. the dodgers offense was nowhere to be found outside of the 9th inning where the opposing pitcher was basically trying to give away the game like kimbrel tried to, as well as a controversial decision of whether or not to pull the starting pitcher which eventually led to more runs. should be interesting to see how roberts responds and if he changes anything up going forward

DeadheadbrewerMember since 2016
7 years ago

In this day and age of pulling the starter early in the playoffs, and with a Kenta Maeda ready in the ‘pen, it seemed very odd to have Buehler “hit” (and not even attempt a bunt?) in that situation.

Christopher Rinaldi
7 years ago

I’m not so sure about this. The pinch hitter may have had a 15-20% chance of doing something more than Buehler? And, the Dodgers bullpen is probably about 15-20% worse than Walker Buehler (who has shown no degradation in performance versus the third time through an order this year, nor did his stuff suggest he would last night). You could argue he should have been pulled after 6, but this seems like a hindsight take.

At that point in the game, it still makes more sense for Roberts to think that the Dodgers could scrape together 3 runs, he could save his bullpen, and the added 15-20% chance of a pinch hitter getting a hit would be offset by the added 15-20% chance his bullpen would give up a run. Then there’s the issue of saving your best bullpen arms for a more important time in a 7 game series.

Psychic... Powerless...
7 years ago

” The pinch hitter may have had a 15-20% chance of doing something more than Buehler”

It’s more like 50%. Note that there’s a difference between percentage points and percent.

Walter
7 years ago

wOBA each time through the order: .207, .252, .265.

And we have the typical small sample size related regressions that should be done…

troybrunoMember since 2016
7 years ago

why make up math when Jay already went through it for you?

Christopher Rinaldi
7 years ago
Reply to  troybruno

I don’t see the run expectancy with Buehler hitting, and I don’t see a difference in run expectancy for the Brewers between Buehler starting the 6th and Maeda starting the 6th. Please point out if I’m missing it.

(Run Expectancy with Pinch Hitter – Run Expectancy with Buehler) – (Run Expectancy with Buehler Entering 6th – Run Expectancy with Maeda Entering 6th) is really the key stat, right?

tb.25
7 years ago

Check twitter. Tango Tiger, Mike Petriello and others.

They all say the difference between Buehler batting and any pinch hitter was much greater than the drop off from Buehler to any reliever in the pen.

Christopher Rinaldi
7 years ago
Reply to  tb.25

I don’t see it, unless it was in a discussion to another tweet or they deleted their tweets about it. See nothing about the game on Tango Tiger, and see only Petriello tweeting about being surprised Chacin was in the game and Buehler being entirely “up/down” and not “inside/out”

Christopher Rinaldi
7 years ago

And just to be clear, the numbers likely would say the run expectancy would be higher, but the game did not turn on this decision. The Dodgers may have gained a small increase in win expectancy in this situation, but not enough to offset the 4-0 result, and their miserable offensive performance/Chacin’s oddly good performance.

Walter
7 years ago

The game very well could have turned on that AB. A hit almost certainly makes its 1-1, any non-out allows for a better chance the middle of the order bats come up with men on base, and the pitcher that ended up allowing in 3 more runs is out of the game.

Ultimately, you have to questions Roberts plan for when its appropriate to remove a starting pitcher. You’re not going to remove him for PH in a critical spot in the middle innings (this case the 5th), OK. You aren’t going remove him in the 6th while facing middle of order for the 3rd time now with a guy on 3rd, OK. Then, in the 7th you let a double and HR happen and you STILL let him pitch. Is the plan to just get X innings out of him almost no matter what? His last out was facing Cain for the 4th time and both pitches after the HR caught a TON of the strike zone. After watching that game, its entirely reasonable to question the process by which Roberts is making in-game pitching decisions.

tb.25
7 years ago

It was a regular-season move, leaving him in. Each game has less meaning, and with bi-picture views (resting a bullpen, etc.), it’s less egregious, some could say expected, to leave a dealing starter with a low pitch count in during a 1-0 game.

But this is the playoffs. Each win matters so much. Take him out.

stever20Member since 2017
7 years ago
Reply to  tb.25

78 pitches isn’t exactly a low pitch count either. It’s not really high- but consider the most pitches any pitcher has thrown in the LCS was 90 this year. The average number of pitches by starters in the LCS- to not include game 1 of the NLCS even for Gio Gonzalez- is only 81.5.

MichaelE
7 years ago

This is the beauty of the National League game. There’s an entirely additional level of strategy to the decision-making process and to which the manager is accountable. Let’s hope it stays this way so that these discussions can continue.

stever20Member since 2017
7 years ago

I guess the question I have. If the managers name was Dusty Baker or Joe Girardi- how much louder would the vitrol have been on this?

I do wonder if the next 2 games go poorly for LA if this may be it for Dave Roberts. This series has not been a good look, and if Milwaukee wins 4-1, not trailing in the final 2 games- the Dodgers would have been in the lead for exactly 2 of the 45 innings in the series. About as much of a 5 game sweep as you can have.

ScottyBMember since 2017
7 years ago

Counsell basically lost Game 2 by taking out Miley too soon (72 pitches, 2 baserunners- and going to a rookie and a heavily-used bullpen that got hit hard in game 1. Hader was unavailable).
Maybe Roberts over-corrected the other way?

stever20Member since 2017
7 years ago

Did anyone else notice in last nights broadcast late Fox was muting the crowd noise for a good 3-4 seconds after bad Dodgers plays? I don’t know that I’ve ever heard of that before….

sphenreckson
7 years ago
Reply to  stever20

Yeah: I wondered if profanity was being caught by crowd mikes or something. I doubt they would do it just for boos.

stever20Member since 2017
7 years ago
Reply to  sphenreckson

Yeah you would think it would be profanity- but it was even when the crowd noise was on a very restless crowd.

Roger McDowell Hot Foot
7 years ago
Reply to  stever20

Interesting theory. It’s been such a badly produced and directed broadcast that I just assumed it was a technical problem — I mean, if you’re unconcerned with basic competence enough to hire Joe Buck, you’re probably also unconcerned with it enough not to keep all your mics working.

steex
7 years ago

I assumed someone merciful in the truck was trying to mute Joe Buck and, unfortunately, lacked the technical aptitude to do so correctly.