On Work and Being Found Wanting
We talk about work as a cohesive, coherent thing — I am a writer, your dad is a plumber, these are our jobs — but it isn’t really. Jobs are a bunch of tasks and to-do lists and calendar reminders, wholes made up of discrete parts that add up to our work. Part of the work of covering the Astros involves an honest accounting of Roberto Osuna: The pitches he throws and how they play, and also how he came to be in Houston. It means considering the cost of his acquisition, not just in so many Gileses, and Paulinos, and Perezes, but also in the bits of humanity it denied and disregarded. It involves recognizing that the Astros got to the World Series in part by commodifying one of the worst moments of a human being’s life, and putting that chilly awfulness into the context of a game somehow.
That was and is the work of the three female sportswriters who were in the Astros’ locker room on the evening of Houston’s pennant-winning triumph. Only that night, a new task emerged. Part of their work became now-former assistant general manager Brandon Taubman and his venom, the drumbeat of “Thank God we got Osuna! I’m so f—— glad we got Osuna!” delivered with cigar in hand. It became locating that venom alongside the purple domestic violence awareness bracelet one of the reporters was wearing, and Taubman’s prior frustration at her practice of tweeting out resources for victims and survivors when Osuna would pitch. These new bits of work added to the queue, one of those reporters, Stephanie Apstein, went about her business, detailing the incident and its context for Sports Illustrated.
And that’s where the trouble started, in this moment when Apstein’s work butted up against Taubman’s notion of his, with his understanding so clearly marking those bits of humanity disregarded as of a different category than Osuna’s fastball. The latter was baseball and the former something else, both not-work for Apstein and the anonymous reporter in the purple bracelet, and a cudgel to wield against these three women. Taubman clearly thought he had gotten the better of a couple of pests, but by denying the validity of these women’s work, women just there to do their jobs, what he revealed was just how much more work the Astros have left to do themselves.
I keep coming back to work because at some point, we have to be counted on to be reliable narrators of our own lives, describers of baseball players and petty men. To faithfully and accurately render a scene; to, in light of the imperfections of human expression, help our readers understand what is meant by something. To report, To know what it is we saw, because that is our work. In turn, we have to be able to count on the harmful actions of others carrying consequences. For the harm to matter more than the intent, even as the contours of that intent necessarily shape the particulars of those consequences. For those who remain after those consequences are rendered to do not just their best, but what is required.
And so, I would have liked nothing more than to have just watched baseball this week, but I couldn’t. I wanted to appreciate José Altuve, enjoy Gerrit Cole; to not wonder if Howie Kendrick’s home run last night wasn’t some divine hand meting out justice. To not want it to be. Baseball is my work, but now this is, too. And of course, it has been my work, and the work of others, for years, to tell this part of baseball’s story. But it feels like a betrayal of all that for someone to be so casually cruel; for Taubman to have deputized another man’s cruelty in service of his own. For his bosses to smear and stumble. To turn this moment, which ought to have been about grit and joy and pushing through into something sour, and marked by malice. To disrespect all this work.
On Saturday, in a letter to Apstein finally retracting the club’s false initial denial of the incident, one that claimed she attempted “to fabricate a story,” Astros owner Jim Crane said, “I assure you that the Houston Astros will learn from this experience.” I hope they do, though I’ll admit to an exhausted skepticism. After all, to demonstrate growth requires a willingness to submit oneself to examination, not only to tell but to show, and to be willing to do so not in the moments that prove convenient, but awkwardly, in-process. Mid-work.
That sort of openness, to expose the squishiness of a lesson not yet fully learned, is the exact sort the Astros have revealed themselves resistant to. They seem, in moments as extreme as Taubman’s outburst but also at times less volcanic but no less loud, to misunderstand this work, theirs and others. They miscategorized the Osuna acquisition, indexing it away from baseball to distance themselves from its more human consequences, and thus displace it from the purview of someone like Apstein as well. They’ll probably want to displace this, too, all this other business, and mark it as un-baseball, but we shouldn’t let them.
Yesterday the World Series ended; the Astros lost. The season is done, and the brass will want to move on. To set about fixing what ailed this team in the end, even as they side-step this other, bigger project. To reinforce the rotation, and find a catcher, and prepare to try again. And that’s fine, but they have to do this hard bit, also. There may be those among you who think it uncharitable to take this moment, when their fans are low, and their players packing up, to ask that we remember Taubman, but this is precisely when we must resist forgetting, in the moments when we and they are vulnerable to all the other things on the to-do list. Before other, potentially flawed men arrive, and have to be properly sized up.
These women were just trying to do their work, after the ALCS was decided and in the days since, and for the Astros to do theirs will require them to look their baseball full in the face, embracing the smarts and spin and data, but also the humanity and failing of those who wear their uniform. It will mean creating an environment of real respect, for those who work for and around them, and building an organization that properly appreciates that to acquire an Osuna is to acquire all of him, perhaps inspiring them to resist acquiring another like him at all. That remembers that discounts come at a cost, and that the accounting of those costs isn’t a task set on the buyer’s timetable. It means being a club that isn’t marked by the mean fuss of the insecure or the petty. That is less enamored with being clever and more concerned with being decent. That takes responsibility and sees itself as responsible for this project, not just yesterday or last Saturday, but tomorrow and next spring. That understands its work.
It starts today, before they forget. Before we do.
Meg is the editor-in-chief of FanGraphs and the co-host of Effectively Wild. Prior to joining FanGraphs, her work appeared at Baseball Prospectus, Lookout Landing, and Just A Bit Outside. You can follow her on Bluesky @megrowler.fangraphs.com.
What does responsibility look like in your eyes? They fired the moron and apologized for his and their actions with regards to the female reporters. What else is needed? Releasing Osuna?
The only reason they actually apologized was because the public pressure was hurting their brand. Yes, they should release Osuna. They never should have traded for him in the first place.
This is in regards to they should just release Osuna. #1, since he was not jailed he does have the right to work, and his work is baseball. With that said, the Astros, Taubmann and Osuna could have handled the initial trade and subsequent interactions so so much better. This presented a perfect opportunity for the team to mandate community service to Osuna, or perhaps to mandate as a team they have x amount of hours related to womans abuse and/or fundraising as a team and organization. Maybe Osuna will never be rehabilitated and he will always be a woman beater, but the Astros should have tried, they should have openly acknowledged what he did was wrong and attempted more honest community outreach that would have hopefully opened Osuna’s eyes, maybe would have helped other members or the team or organization (like Taubman) and perhaps put an honest positive light on a very important issue while also allowing Osuna to continue to ply his trade. Yes, it’s probably easier just to release him, and that may have to be the outcome at this point in time, but they could have really turned this into something good but chose to really do nothing and almost worst than nothing apparently the lack of empathy or caring from many in the organization about an important issue is quite frankly appalling and quite honestly the complicity of looking the other way is just as bad or worse than the original act itself.
Osuna’s work doesn’t have to be baseball. He could just as easily pump gas. I am tempted to call such claims that ballplayers have a right to work in their chosen profession as “the Michael Vick fallacy.” It’s opposite, of course, is the Colin Kaepernick corollary, the idea that having and expressing values that are outside those of the owners (or in the case of the Olympic sports – the funders and hierarchies) are bad for the sport and hurt business despite a lack of evidence to support that position and significant evidence to the contrary. We might also generalize this to the inverse Robinson hypothesis: that seemingly radical acts in men’s pro-sports often lag behind society by decades.
You are right. If Osuna costs the Astros to play him, for reasons besides his skill and market-driven salary to play the game, then he shouldn’t be allowed. AKA: nobody watched less, nobody went to any less games, and nobody bought less Astros hats and jerseys because of Osuna’s actions. The way this article speaks, I am NOT in favor at all. NO to all of it.
You know what? I don’t know Roberto Osuna, but I actually feel bad for HIM 1) Did a bad thing to his wife, that I cant find details on 2) Wasn’t charged 3) Was suspended, ridiculed, demonized, labeled 4) Some douche yells out his name in the locker room, and his name drug back into it again, without him asking for it.
The poster has dehumanized him, because of her agenda. She doesn’t need to care about anyone else’s feelings… not Osuna, not even his wife really, not any of the other players or good people. You missed a great group of men celebrating on the field on Wednesday night, and for what? A grudge? Harm done? People say shitty things and hurt other people, all then time. A little secret I know: Everyone, including Meg, knows how to look past or hurt another person’s feelings with words, because we ALL have done it.
Maybe, instead of imposing all these demands on the Astros org, people should get off their high horse, forgive, and move the hell on. Forgive? What? Crazy, I know. You don’t even know any of these people.
You “feel bad” for Roberto Osuna?
Man, this comment section has not brought in the best society has to offer that is for sure.
“The source said that police saw “significant injuries” on the alleged victim, who provided a video statement to officers.
It was the concierge at the front desk of the residence who called police, the source added.”
Hiding behind some excuse that you didn’t see the police report – because Canadian police reports aren’t public information – is shameful.
Get off “their high horse” that expects people not to beat their significant others? My goodness.
Oh and he was charged; he pleaded out. There’s a pretty big difference. I love how you consider Taubman “some douche” while Osuna is “a victim.”
I never used the word “victim”. That is not a word that I use, especially since it is a charged word now. So no, I didn’t argue that he is a “a victim”. I just dont think there is a limitless amount of punishment… decided by people who were not harmed by Osuna, nor were they there… that can be heaped upon him.
The way he and others who go through this are treated, makes me thankful of laws. Without them, there are some who would have him stripped of everything. I’m saying, I disagree. I do not trust the benevolence and fairness of the wrath of the average person’s vengeance. So, I’m forced to reject all of it. I dont need to debate it, just casting my vote against y’all.
I don’t know anything about him specifically, but I do know that experiencing violence in the past makes one way more likely to commit it in the future. It may be the case that he was a victim before he was a perpetrator. His violence may come from unbearable inner pain. Maybe, maybe not.
It’s not meant to excuse what he did or detract from compassion for his victim(s) but if we really want to stop the cycle of violence it’s not in our interest to make some people “untouchable.”
“Don’t hit women or you deserve scorn” is not an agenda so much as a universally agreeable statement for non-sociopaths.
I could agree he deserves some scorn, but not that it justifies every move or position or action against him. Yes, all of what constitutes that scorn, and how far it extends, is up for debate, and can receive scorn itself.
This is a take too mature for most internet audiences. Most of the “discourse” around this seems motivated by either pure, blind rage at what he did (fair, but not sufficient to enact a just society) or a desire to paint oneself as a Virtuous Defender of Victims of Violence. Not who I want controlling the discourse.
you are a moron
You are correct, he could pump gas. Of course, taking away something from him (baseball) does not address the problem (female abuse) and may in fact provide some amount of fear to certain men not to do it, but it really doesn’t provide any catalyst for change or learning or understanding. Of course, this is a very grey area as well, don’t get me wrong people like Epstein and Weinstein totally deserve everything thrown their way and more, but in this case it appears to be a singular case of abuse though I am sure there were others…but perhaps given the platform (mlb) it could have been a positive? I see your point though. Well taken.
I don’t think you’re asking this question in good faith, so it may be pointless (at least inasmuch as you aren’t sincerely seeking an answer here) to answer it, but:
Responsibility means facing up to and working to change the organizational culture that (1) allowed Taubman to feel like it was good and cool to act the way he did in that place and moment, and (2) resulted in the Astros responding to the initial reporting the way they did. “Firing the moron” and saying oops about the whole thing doesn’t do that.
In fact, quite to the contrary, Luhnow has been in specific denial that there’s a culture problem in the first place. Which is why anybody taking an honest look at the situation comes away skeptical that the Astros’ apologies (up to and including Crane’s) are driven by anything but their own PR needs.
So let me take an unpopular position.
Did the Astros handle the situation correctly? Absolutely not. Can I understand why they did what they did? Sure. And it’s not that complicated.
They had a trusted employee. One (according to the team) who did not exhibit any tendencies to write off things like sexual assault or domestic violence. The story hits. They go to Taubman. He responds that he didn’t say it. In fact, he presents compelling evidence that the whole thing is fabricated or at least misinterpreted. They interview others, the same thing. The team was faced with he said/she said situation. They chose the side of their trusted employee based on the evidence he and others presented.
Again, the team did not handle it correctly. However, this is poor judgment, not some unforgivable transgression. The whole thing played out over a few days and in the end, the right decision was reached. I don’t believe this reflects that the Astros support a culture of belittling domestic violence issues. They simply believed the evidence coming from trusted sources within the organization over the accusation of a reporter.
What is needed (from both sides) is patience. Sometimes things are misheard. Sometimes things are misinterpreted. Giving time for a thorough investigation is what was needed.
It’s a possible explanation, and a reasonable one, but it also ignores the context of the acquisition of Osuna in the first place and Luhnow’s bizarre explanation of how it squared with the team’s supposed zero-tolerance policy. Couple that with the abrasiveness of the statement and the fact that the organization looked like it was lying, and it’s very hard to give them the benefit of the doubt and that they’re going to learn from this. They’re going to really have to put their money where their mouth is to prove that they deserve some slack, because they don’t deserve the benefit of doubt.
What “compelling evidence” could he possibly have had — especially given that we now know that yes, he really did and said what was reported? Can’t be audio or video, because again, *he did it.* I can’t think of anything at all, really, other than him simply super-seriously promising he didn’t do it.
It sounds like you’re elevating a flat denial by him (and maybe by his coworkers who were there with him, who of course are subject to their own biases, which seems like part of the problem here) to the level of “compelling evidence.” But his statements (i.e. lies) obviously should not have been compelling, and just as obviously are not the kind of evidence that an organization SHOULD simply choose to credit over the accounts of multiple reporters. Reporters don’t tend to simply fabricate things, but employees who are afraid they’ve done something wrong and gotten caught often do.
Unfortunately, you are not right. EVERY category of human being is capable of lying, at any time, especially, when there is agandas involved, and there usually is.
Think about it. NONE of these people talking were harmed by Osuna. I can see being concerned, but many of them actually act like THEY should be apologized to. Lord, its a baseball organization. I just would like to say that no matter how prevalent, I disagree with this way of thinking in its entirety. There is no wife-beating epidemic. There is no bad culture. Most everyone treats everyone cool, most all of the time.
There is no domestic violence epidemic? 1/4 women deal with domestic violence while 1/9 men do.
25% of women – hardly “most everyone treats everyone cool” – experience this hardship in their lives at some point. Here are some more statistics about this thing you call not an epidemic:
1 in 4 women and 1 in 9 men experience severe intimate partner physical violence, intimate partner contact sexual violence, and/or intimate partner stalking with impacts such as injury, fearfulness, post-traumatic stress disorder, use of victim services, contraction of sexually transmitted diseases, etc.2
1 in 3 women and 1 in 4 men have experienced some form of physical violence by an intimate partner. This includes a range of behaviors (e.g. slapping, shoving, pushing) and in some cases might not be considered “domestic violence.” 1
1 in 7 women and 1 in 25 men have been injured by an intimate partner.1
1 in 10 women have been raped by an intimate partner. Data is unavailable on male victims.1
1 in 4 women and 1 in 7 men have been victims of severe physical violence (e.g. beating, burning, strangling) by an intimate partner in their lifetime.1
1 in 7 women and 1 in 18 men have been stalked by an intimate partner during their lifetime to the point in which they felt very fearful or believed that they or someone close to them would be harmed or killed.
Source: NCADV
I dont trust these numbers, the intent or conclusions behind them. Lots of people are in jail for these things, and I doubt you are qualified to make social change outside of the legal system. It has to be change that is good for everybody.
“I don’t trust these numbers…”
Seriously? Are you just willfully ignorant to the world around you? Perhaps you should volunteer, as my wife does, at a local women’s shelter and see if you trust the numbers then.
Casey J was very clear earlier. He rejects everything that doesn’t conform to his worldview. His POV begins with the conclusion that the media and those protesting Osuna/Astros are wrong, and therefore anything associated with those parties is not be trusted. A truly sad perspective (in that he isn’t willing to change his priors under any circumstances), but a not surprising or uncommon one – we’ve seen it quite prominently in other scenarios over the past 3-4 years.
Im not doing that, actually. Im stating my point of view, but totally willing to change my mind on anything at any time. Especially since… this does not matter a whole lot. I mean, I care but I am not the Astros, I am not Roberto osuna or a member of his family. I dont think the Astros have this massive debt to society that everyone here seems to. My wife is safe, and loved. Everything remains the same. You didn’t describe my perspective accurately. I disagree, but am always willing to talk and be persuaded.
“I don’t trust these numbers”
Why do you think not trusting those numbers means your version is correct?
“I dont trust these numbers”
If one of those numbers was your girlfriend, feel free to use the numbers minus one. It doesn’t change the argument but might make you less grumpy?
Why are you on this site if you don’t trust numbers?
What you seem to be doing here is backing yourself into a position. Rather than allowing data or a new opinion to inform your decision, you seem to be drawing a box around a feeling you hold and then discarding evidence that challenges it.
I do this sometimes too and in retrospect I realize that those are my worst moments and weakest arguments. I try to challenge myself to do better the next time, it’s not easy but I try.
Or, I can just not trust the data… then even if the date is accurate, which I doubt, there is the matter of interpreting it. Id put it on you. OK, I’m wrong. About what, exactly?
That data is dead on. Sorry dude your just wrong.
Fire the entire front office, all of the scouts, disband all the minor league teams, and the owner commits Seppuku.
They already fired all the scouts a few years ago. Because they just need data, you see. Humans can’t learn anything from watching baseball with their biologically limited eyes, obviously. (sarcasm)
jeez, why is the first comment on these types of articles one like this?
On Twitter & Facebook, this happens due to 1) algorithm promoting garbage tweets because they get the most response, and 2) trolls/psyops lying in wait to try to prevent a true, helpful narrative from being established. Not sure why it happens here.
It isn’t happening here, and that isn’t what is happening. What is happening is that we are looking at the same set of occurrences and issues, and are looking them differently. You just aren’t comfortable with the idea that people can look at things differently, and calmly, and even have a discussion about it.
You are engaging in “projection”. We haven’t engaged in ANY troll behavior, such as name calling, piling on ect.
The issue was not taubman whom they fired but they they tried to spin the fake media thing claiming the reporters lied for several days and only stopped that after several Days and Statements by owner and other front office personnel after they got caught and several witnesses showed up.
They haven’t apologized to this day for this claiming they misjudged the situation (instead of this being a deliberate strategy to destroy credibility which got exposed).
We can pretty much assume that:
-in the end taubman was fired more as a “scapegoat” to quiet the media. Now taubman deserved to be fired but they wouldn’t have fired him if their strategy wasn’t exposed and public pressure came up.
-had there been no witnesses the Astros likely would still stick to their strategy
The taubman situation has been resolved but the trying to silence the media with a lie regarding their credibility hasn’t to this day, as they still deny this was a deliberate strategy and this wasn’t the first time the Astros obstructed critical journalists.
I won’t forget. Thanks for writing this
I doubt “forgetting” is the concern that it would have been only a few years ago. The world still vastly favors those with more power, but man we’ve at least started to recognize a whole swath of abuse as a real, important, and way, way too common problem, as opposed to the hand waving of yesteryear.
This very article is evidence of that. And I’ll echo your thanks for this being written.
This article is laced with poignant phrasing, delivered with an absolutely appropriate seriousness. I’m disappointed that the words that stick with me are “exhausted skepticism”, but the MLB body politic leaves so little room for recognition of humanity outside the narrow confines of it’s own mythology – which utterly ignores women – that skepticism is hard to avoid.
Thanks, Meg, for writing this. I really appreciate it. It’s so good. Baseball is *not* my job, so being a fan affords more of a privilege of tuning out or forgetting. This is such a good reminder of the importance of doing the work of a fan, too, and not forgetting. Thank you!
Beautifully written. Wow.
Nailed it. Many thanks.
Thanks Meg, there seems like some good people in the Astros organization that are being let down by poor leadership. If that leadership doesn’t change it seems hard to believe in a genuine commitment to improve.
“exhausted skepticism” captures so much of my thoughts towards the Astros this week after they claimed they would learn from it. The organization’s initial response was to try to smear the journalist who reported it. I think what the Astros really want is for us to take the apology and firing at face value and ignore this and move on, but I’m 99% sure that Taubman didn’t write that statement and release it under the Astros’ name. Taubman is the crassest part of the whole story, but it clearly was an organizational call. Without knowing exactly how that decision came to be I (and I assume others too) are just waiting for the next time it comes up and they do exactly the same thing.
It really did hurt the experience of the World Series for me. Someone said the other day that a seven-game series should be a lot of fun, but it wasn’t, and it’s the Astros’ fault. I agree. The Astros need to be doing something a lot more than just apologizing and moving on. Whether that’s releasing Osuna, or coming up with a good, plausible, and honest explanation for how that statement came out, or something else…if they don’t, it’s going to take a long time to get this bad taste out of my mouth every time I talk about the Astros. A long, long time.
Well said, but I would like to add the following:
One point according to Passan that really helps you understand the Astros operation:
“1. Luhnow reportedly had to be talked out of acquiring Luke Heimich.”
If people didn’t think the Astros had a cultural problem before, the above sentiment paired with the Osuna trade pretty much seals the deal.
Decency is not a part of the Astros model. What more do you expect from an organization that views players not as people but as assets and assets only. By dehumanizing players, and turning them into numerical values only, the precedent has been set that baseball outcomes outweigh human decency. Winning at all costs has always reared it’s ugly head in the sports world, and the Astros have taken that to the highest level of ignorance.
It’s not that Taubman said what he said; it’s that his anger had been building up along with his executive peers at this woman for doing exactly what the Astros claimed they wanted to see after acquiring Osuna – raise awareness. People that judge things solely on value and the bottom line often overlook the real world impact of those decisions.
As a consumer, I root for teams that I like to believe share my values. As a former Penn State fan, the reality of the cost of winning resonates loud and clear… While I am not better than those who remain loyal to that institution, I often ask myself how a fan can rationalize that decision in the face of human decency. A touchdown or win is never worth enough to ignore the values tied to being a quality human being.
There was another report that diagnosed the Houston front office culture as narrow-mindedly focused on performance and willfully deprecating intangibles. Baseball players aren’t angels and teams are known to routinely mininize and cover up player misbehavior to one extent or another (tomcatting, drinking, recreational drugs, etc.) But most teams have *some* standard, a line they won’t cross, a point where even productive players wear out their welcome.
(California is facing their own problem in this area, right now.)
Houston, so far, hasn’t demonstrated they see a line they won’t cross or if they do it is far beyond what anybody else considers acceptable.
To be clear, the real issue isn’t the joke who thought it was fine to gloat over the team’s lack of sensibility and tone deaf business sense, but rather the team’s forceful kneejerk defense of the jerk.
Getting rid of the jerk under fire is hardly proof of virtue.
It is the same as politicians’ non-excuse “excuses” where they “regret people were offended” as if they were blameless.
Every team has their share of condoning misbehavior of one kind or another but against the context of the times, Houston now stands head and shoulders above everybody. (Barring the outcome of the Skaggs inquiry.)
All things considered, it is good the Nationals won, so everybody can celebrate a win without baggage.
Eh, I know this isn’t a popular opinion but Skaggs was a grown man who used a team employee to get drugs for him. That poor staffer is now being used as a scapegoat for the actions and decisions a grown man made. That staffer was likely powerless and wanting to please to be well regarded by his well paid peers.
I do not believe the Angels were selling and forcing skaggs to take the drugs.
Under MLB rules, that “poor employee” was supposed to inform the team, to get Skaggs help, not act as enabler/dealer.
And the team, once informed was supposed to inform MLB and the union to help him, precisely so he didn’t die.
If they had done their job, he might still be alive.
MLB isn ‘t investigating for the fun of it.
Some clubhouse attendant disclosing this up the chain would be a heroic thing to do (think for two seconds the multitude of ways he could get fucked doing so). The thing about real heroic actions is that failing to do them doesn’t make you a bad person. There is room between bad person and hero.
In the real world that would be a good way to get fired.
What’s not the real world?
Jerk. Not joke.
(Darn autocorrupt system.)
Although it was a bad joke how far they went to support his jerkiness.
Some fun things I learned because of Taubman’s big stupid mouth and the foolish mishandling by Crane & Lunhow (I think both are from the Passan ESPN piece):
(1) Lunhow reportedly had to be talked out of acquiring Luke “the Molester” Heimlich. They definitely don’t care about Osuna beating his wife if they draw the line, kicking and screaming, juuuuust short of child molester.
(2) The Astros don’t just have very few scouts, they have NO SCOUTS! This Taubman guy was nominally in charge of their “scouting” department, which seems to amount to downloading Trackman data and playing with it. The arrogance of having ZERO scouts is just stunning. P.S. I would love to see some of these front office trolls try to play catch in public.
Great article Meg. You can tell when thoughts have been percolating a while, waiting to be articulated just the right way.
While this is off-topic from the subject of the article, how is having zero scouts “arrogant”? And regardless of its arrogance, is it valid to question a “no scouts” strategy if the team in question has reached the last two World Series and the playoffs in four years of the last five?
To be even more pedantic, is a scout not a scout because he parses electronically-gathered data instead of sitting in the stands with a radar gun and a note pad?
Yes, this seems a very odd complaint to have relative to the subject at hand. I hate to speak for anyone else, but I have a hard time believing members of the public at large feel morally conflicted by the team’s success because of its lack of traditional scouts.
I understand somewhat de-emphasizing human scouting. I don’t understand having ZERO scouts. It’s incredibly arrogant to think that you don’t need anything but Trackman. There are lots of factors to be integrated and all of them are not in the spreadsheet.
Is it arrogant? Because it…seems to work pretty well.
It’s arrogant to look at the work that – for example – Kiley & Eric do on this site and say it’s totally worthless. This is on topic because it’s one of the many facets of the Houston front office’s misguided faith in their own navel-gazing to the exclusion of all other information.
I love Eric and Kiley, but they work here, and the Astros are the Astros. They took a garbage team, and built a juggernaut of a club. If you want to build a great, great baseball team and org…. gaze into their navels!
Maybe the fact that this work is done exactly by Eric and Kiley here in public means that there’s not much benefit from duplicating that effort and instead focusing on proprietary information that other clubs don’t have access to (which is what’s in the spreadsheet).
Mike – I hear you. But! Smart people who think they’re even smarter than they are don’t think this way (source – firsthand). If the Astros believed in eyeballs, they would have The Best Scouts money can buy because theirs would be inherently smarter due to being hired by the aforementioned geniuses. Their zero scout thing is a statement of their brain penis being the largest brain penis.
FWIW I think you’re wrong about this. The Astros, as we have seen from many a profile of them in recent days, are super focused on not only winning but efficiency. They pay some of the worst salaries in MLB. They try to maximize value in all areas. If they have looked at what their scouts produced and determined that it did not add any value over what’s publically available (and given you have many outlets, BP, FG, BA, etc all covering prospects, you have a strong sense of the scouting consensus on nearly every player), that is exactly the kind of culture that would say ‘we get no ROI from the money spent on these guys, lets fire them and invest that in the stuff that is proprietary’. It’s not like Kiley and Eric, and the huge BP prospect team, and BA, aren’t aggregating character information as well as performance. Deciding that paying in-house for the exact same materials they can find online is a waste of money is a profoundly Astrosian thing to do, and so it is the most logical explanation for their actions.
Also its worth noting that the Astros don’t have ‘no scouts’, they have no minor league scouts. They still have amateur scouting and they still have advance MLB scouting. It is specifically the scouting players on other team’s AAA, AA, A, rosters that they decided has no particular added value, and since those are the people by far the best covered in public, this makes sense.
Every time I make a comment based on my eyeballs or my experience playing the actual game of baseball, it gets downvoted, even when it’s adding context to The Numbers. This commentariat has a Wannabe Taubman problem. If it makes you feel better I usually beat you at fantasy baseball too, the difference is I manage to do it without seeing the players as replaceable robots. It might also help that I watch 300 games a year (you idiots aren’t even trying).
Don’t aspire to be management – aspire instead to be the best labor ever (Babe Ruth). If your life goal is to manage a baseball team (aka minimize the earnings of baseball players while taking credit) then I truly feel sorry for you because you will work every waking hour and your employees will never respect you.
One of the things scouted is make-up and character, maybe that’s his point?
Scouts don’t just evaluate performance, they evaluate the person.
Personality matters.
An Albert Belle angry young man needs training beyond what the game offer compared to a calm, sociable type. Or a player hooked on drugs, or withbad conditioning habits, or being uncoachable.
None of that shows up on Trackman yet it impacts the value of a draft pick.
Think of Trevor Bauer. Great natural talent. Traded after a year. Given lots of rope by Cleveland despite his antics and online catfights. As long as he performed. Once he became more of a distraction than an asset they shipped him out.
When you’re investing millions of dollars and team resources in a person that will be fepresemting your business, it helps if that person is a halfway decent human being. Or at least discrete.
Rule number one in any business is “Never embarrass the company” . Performance is always secondary. Except in Houston.
Bauer was traded because he was at peak value – a great pitcher on an expiring contract. Personality rarely gets players traded. Except Ken Giles, if you want to circle back around to the topic of the article.
I think it would be an incorrect presumption to state that the Astros don’t consider the impact of player personality or character just because they don’t have traditional bleacher scouts.
I mean, its pretty obvious that Luhnow couldnt care less about a players personality and how it fits… unless you think Heimlich and The wife beater were personalities he thought would mesh with his group.
Who are YOU? What makes you so perfect?
Rational – Love your comments across the board. Not sure Heimlich isn’t a fit though. I mean it’s like the Raiders signing a bad player who runs fast. Some people have a type.
Is there any evidence that Osuna is a bad clubhouse fit? You’re certainly entitled to pillory him and the Astros for employing him on principle, but you guys seem to be suggesting that a lack of emphasis on character is somehow hurting the team beyond the PR aspect. I’m just not seeing any basis for that argument.
Personality gets a lot of players traded.
For every Bradley or Bauer we hear about there are two or three they don’t speak of to avoid undercutting their trade value.
Teams wouldn’t rave about the guys who are good clubhouse presences if tbey weren’t rarer than tbe ones who aren’t.
A lot ofwhat happens in the clubhouse stays in the club house, typically because of performance. But once performance dips, it’s “Bye-bye Bauer.”
And, no Bauer wasn’t traded at peak value: that was off-season 2018-19.
And, no, he wasn’t traded for tbrowing tbe ball into the stands in KC; he was traded for all that went on before, that was covered up. (And because Bieber is for real.) The reportsout of Cleveland were that the rest of tbe team was far from missing him.
They put up with him when he was indispensable. The moment he was even slightly dispendable, tbey disposed of him.
‘Covered up”? LOL, what is this, a spy novel? Its baseball dude.
Well written and very insightful. I’m married with two adult daughters and two granddaughters. I have no regard for men who abuse women. My question is how do we address this issue? In the case of Osuna, he was suspended from baseball and went through the legal system. Do we say to him “You’re crime was so bad the only punishment can be that that you can’t pursue you’re livelihood any longer”? So we throw him out of baseball, then what? Does he say, “I’ve made some money, maybe I’ll go to school and become a Doctor, Lawyer or maybe a sports journalist.”? Is that okay with us? Dr. Osuna M.D. is fine but Roberto Osuna, relief pitcher isn’t? I understand the public figure aspect of it, but how do you know the plumber you let into your home yesterday wasn’t a worse offender?
There’s other leagues in other cultures.
What does MLB owe to him?
Do they owe him a millionaire salary even if he embarrasses the company?
If he’s more trouble than an asset?
Remember, MLB Is all about the money.
At least one team has decided that he’s not more trouble than an asset, and that his salary is worth the trouble. I don’t like that the Astros acquired him, but there are probably at least twenty clubs that would view him the same way.
Really?
Which twelve wouldn’t?
Why didn’t Toronto get more for him, then?
Getting Giles, arguably an equal or even better pitcher than Osuna wasn’t enough?
It is human nature to differentiate between ‘crime’ and ‘BAD crime!’ In the event of being charged with a ‘BAD! crime’, the rules change. The evidentiary standard changes to ‘clearly some’, and no you are not forgiven or rehabilitated. You’re just cast out of the community.
To the extent that your question is ‘what do we do?’ rather than ‘what should we do?’, I think this covers it.
Baseball is a business that relies on the masses watching or attending.
PR is part of every player’s job (hence after-game interviews, autograph sessions, charity events, etc).
There’s also the regular “face of the franchise” articles.
The face of Cleveland is Lindor, the face of California is Trout.
Every team has at least one player that draws attention.
Right now, the face of Houston is Osuna.
We’re not talking Bregman or Springer or Correa or anybody but Ozuna.
That is not exactly good PR.
This will last for all of about two months — like it always does.
Any negative PR calculation involves estimating the longevity of the negative press. With very few exceptions, it’s months, not years.
Obviously Osuna is ultimately the real villain here, but I think most of the outrage is rightly directed towards the Astros for taking advantage of such an ugly situation and continuing to not even so much as acknowledge the ugliness of it. I agree that we must give people a real opportunity to improve and learn from mistakes (calling Osuna’s behavior a “mistake” is rather euphemistic, but just in general…). Osuna served the punishment deemed appropriate by both MLB and the legal system, and deserves a second chance. But what cannot happen is for the broader organizational culture (sports in general, MLB & the Astros specifically) to excuse this behavior and create an atmosphere where the seriousness of what he has done is pushed to the side and forgotten. I don’t think it is exaggeration to call the Astros’ organizational handling of this whole situation truly heinous. The prevailing attitude seems to be that as long as he throws hard and generates some nice spin on his breaking pitches, Osuna’s behavior is excused, and even insignificant. Nothing will ever improve as long as this is the attitude of those in position to do anything about it…
What punishment was he given by the legal system? He recieved no punishment and is just another man in the long list of history that wasn’t held accountable for beating a woman because the woman didn’t feel empowered to pursue justice.
Fair point – I just meant he went through the legal system and was given the punishment (or lack thereof) deemed appropriate, rightly or wrongly. Not sure we can really blame Osuna for that though…
Her financial well being and that of any kids depends on his millionaire salary.
If she talked that would go away and he might even track her down.
Domestic violence isn’t just about slaps or punches.
Always knew my dad was Mario
I wonder if Cole’s stance after the game last night was, in some way, related to this issue. Didn’t wear that hat, didn’t mention the admin (beyond Hinch), mentioned it was a “pleasure” to play in the city.
I found this really odd as well; given that it was literally the first time I’ve ever seen a player act in this way after a postseason ended.
He went out of his way to thank his coaches, teammates and the city; not once did he thank the organization/front office. I’m not sure if it meant anything, but it appeared to be purposeful.
To me it said: “I’m a free agent and there isn’t enough money to make me come back. ”
We’ll see if he signs elsewhere and the rumor mill says he took less than Houston offered.
These are the specific quotes that stood out fo me:
Asked by a team official to meet with reporters after their 6-2 loss to the Washington Nationals on Wednesday, Cole, who was wearing a Boras Corp. hat, said, “I’m not employed by the team.”
However, after agreeing to interviews, he started out with, “I guess as a representative of myself …”
Today he must’ve cooled down (or Boras told him not to burn that bridge yet) because he tweeted a generic thank you to the city and the organization.
He’s generally just pissed that they extended Bregman and Verlander but not him. There is almost zero chance this is about Osuna.
Not to be confused with one who in any way supports or approves of any sort of domestic violence, it does seem fair to point out that the charges against Osuna were never pursued:
From USA Today of 9-25-18: ” A prosecutor in the Crown Attorneys’ office said in court that the alleged victim was the mother of Osuna’s 3-year-old child and she declined to travel back to Canada to pursue the case, according to the CBC.”
https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/mlb/2018/09/25/roberto-osuna-domestic-abuse-case/1158857002/
This decision in a very liberal country and dealing with a professional athlete who had and would have huge amounts of money which could have been won in court and provided great opportunity for the child?
MLB had suspended him without a hearing. Apparently that doesn’t happen in the legal system even in Canada. It’s useful to remember that there just might be two sides to this (or any) allegation.
Bad take bud. MLB suspended him after an investigation, multiple Blue Jays personnel commented on being ashamed and disappointed about what happened, the MLBPA did not contest the suspension, and Osuna didn’t make a defamation claim.
Osuna has, as a 24 year old reliever, a great deal more money to make. Without a DV suspension, a great, great deal more money to make. Beyond any hope of reconciliation/family structure and any trauma, his girlfriend is financially disincentivized from negatively impacting that by testifying against him.
There do exist he-said/she-said allegations, and DV situations that are difficult to evaluate for outside observers. Osuna took a 75 game suspension. This is not one of those.
We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. Osuna was suspended without a hearing and took the most expeditious way for his return to active player status, period. If there was any prosecutable offense, it was curiously set aside.
Can one really believe that “beyond any hope of reconciliation/family structure and any trauma, his girlfriend is financially disincentivized from negatively impacting that by testifying against him?” Logically, in that case, she would want to do as much damage possible, rather than try to make it easier on him – if she had some legal way to do so.
My point is that it is never fair to convict someone in print. It applies to this and every other situation, period. I don’t have the full facts and they have not been disclosed. Without that, there is only speculation.
Spiggy covers this a bit in the comment below, but it’s pretty common for DV survivors to not want to testify against their attackers, which is what happened here (she went back to Mexico and refused to cooperate with the investigation, thus scuttling the case). These include, in no particular order, (1) not really being able to process the trauma well enough to testify, (2) hurting the long-term financial future of the family (this came into play with the Addison Russell situation, among others), (3) that the survivor may have loved the attacker at one time, (4) language/cultural barriers that make the court system challenging, (5) fear that if they testify, it will provoke the accuser to try and kill them.
Ultimately, it’s worth building some uncertainty into our judgments about Osuna but we do know that Osuna was arrested after the mother of his child suffered “significant injuries,” the MLB investigation turned up something nasty, and the Astros saw fit to state that Osuna was “remorseful” for his previous actions. The intuition in situations like this is usually pretty accurate.
Yeah, to argue Osuna stated he was remorseful for his actions and willingly took the suspension for the purpose of expediting the process sure is some quality mental gymnastics.
(5) fear that if they testify, it will provoke the accuser to try and kill them.
Haha. Thus negating the sanity of the previous 4, and the rest of your comment. Also, there are several other plausible explanations, an endless amount really.
Maybe, just maybe, they had a bad moment or a bad day, like most of us do. Maybe she just forgave him already? Maybe she never will. Who knows, and … WHO CARES? Life moves on.
Are you really excusing beating your wife by stating maybe “he had a bad day?” I really hope you’re not married if that is how you justify heinous actions.
You realize that domestic abusers have killed their victims for coming forward, right?
I don’t know what your comment even means, but (5) is an issue we have to deal with in the real world, and it’s depressing that we do and that the necessary precautions need to be made. And it’s not “common” necessarily but it’s a “common enough” issue that it can play an outsized role in whether someone testifies.
I’d like to think that you don’t actually mean the rest of that comment.
Lots of people have had bad days and yet have never beaten their wives. The bad day isn’t really the problem in that scenario.
I believe that having a bad day, or a bad moment in life IS relevant. The law judges whether something is irredeemable, or needs restitution. I also thing the desire to be punitive, in particular with athletes, comes from a tendency for fans to be 1) Bitter and jealous and resentful of them 2) And, the way we commodify them.
I do not trust, nor believe, that all the venom is altruistic. I dont excuse Osuna at all. If it was bad enough, he could go to jail for it. We all know then score there, and very few of us object to all the men who are imprisoned. I object to non-experts thinking they can just charge in and make fair social change. If it were fair, why no impartial panel to look at things. Instead, its just mob vote. See? Watch how many downvotes this gets. lol
I feel like casey j is interviewing for a job as Astros assistant GM.
There are many, many reasons why victims of domestic abuse choose not to pursue charges that have nothing to do with the legitimacy of their case. These include not wanting to wade through a long and potentially re-traumatizing trial, being terrified of having to come into contact with or being in the same vicinity as their abuser, and feeling like the legal machinations of a long trial are at odds with their own mental and emotional recovery and self-care.
It’s deeply unfair to infer anything about Osuna’s culpability from the victim’s unwillingness or inability to testify.
Ray Rice’s wife didnt want to pursue charges despite being on video being punched in the face.
Victims of domestic violence are frequently too scared, or so belittled, that they do not pursue charges. Frequently they blame themselves for the actions of the abuser… or in this case, weighing the financial hardship of the child of the father loses his job.
Citing the fact that the charges weren’t pursued is certainly a lazy way of condoning his actions.
Typically the two sides go like this:
1. I’m sorry, I made him angry and it’s my fault (the abused)
2. What she said (the abuser).
Arguing that he was innocent and falsely accused is pretty lazy and demeaning of the victim.
You cannot know their emotions. So, no. There are all kinds of other potential motivations, since we are just speculating 1) People DO feel guilty about things that they have said, or even ashamed, or regretful 2) People should not hit people, but like we have said here so much… words can hurt people. People can go too far with their words. 3) Another reason people dont pursue charges is that they dont want to hurt the other person, after they have time to cool off 4) Or, they dont want to loose their Man. 5) Or, they forgave them.
Does anyone notice a pattern here, in the way we discuss this? A rule: Men’s words = can be and are harmful, and they should be accountable. Women’s words = no discussion or mention of their words being harmful at all.
“Words as harm” loses any meaning if this isn’t considered.
With the appropriately numbered #2, you strongly imply that it is bad but mitigated or understandable for a man to hit a woman if she uses sufficiently mean words to provoke. This is not an acceptable position to hold in a civilized society. People who think this way are a danger to the people around them. Ticking time bombs of future (and quite possibly past) interpersonal violence.
I’m not a danger to ANYBODY. I dont know you at all though, so I could say exactly the same about you. Saying all the “correct” things does not convince anybody that you are a better person. There are societal penalties for hitting women that I happen to agree with, I just believe there are limits to everyone’s behavior. Do you believe that Men can say ANYTHING to other men, and that if a man ever hits the man speaking that he should be fired and required to undergo counselling? If not, why?
Why is MMA okay? Or even football? Why not eliminate everything violent, or that even simulates violence? Why, because that would be crazy. To me.
I feel like one can attempt to unwind society and undo every violent tendency, or accept that people are young, or stupid, or bad, or confused, or WHATEVER. They make mistakes. They do things they regret. People SAY things they regret. You weren’t there. It isn’t your business. I’m thankful for judges and laws, because the public is not a fair and unbiased arbiter… not ever, not close. No.
“Do you believe that Men can say ANYTHING to other men, and that if a man ever hits the man speaking that he should be fired and required to undergo counselling?”
Yes, of course I think committing assault is wrong (it is still assault if someone hurts your feelings first, since you keep pitifully invoking laws and judges to a lawyer). Most people would be fired for committing assault, and rightly so! You keep condoning the casual application of violence to an alarming degree, and that attitude coming from anyone endangers the people around them.
You must be looking for the incel support group. It’s not here.
I dont need support, and I dont like incells,
They weren’t pursued because apparently, Canadian law requires victim testimony.
in the US the cops can proceed without it but it is still hard.
Domestic violence is so prevalent precisely because of how hard it is to prosecute.
In a story aimed at combating a particularly bad form of sexism, you should leave intentionally sexist phrases such as “petty MEN!” and “flawed MEN!” (each used in the general sense rather than in reference to the specific individuals involved) out. There are now some women in some management positions in baseball, and when in their interest they’re quite capable of defending bad behavior. See, oh, I dunno, ‘Clinton, Hillary, 1998 (and many years prior, actually)’.
Hillary Clinton worked for a baseball team? Did not know that.
Oh cool, #notallmen.
Leave your unwarranted defensiveness at home, please.
Great piece Meg – I’m sure it’s a bummer to have to write about this stuff but I agree that it is extremely important to address it head-on despite the inherent unpleasantness.
As a an aside… Apart from a few predictable bird-brained comments, the other comments are much more mature and reasonable than I would have expected, so well done (most of the) FanGraphs community!
I know the author and many of those commenting are coming from a sincere place…
…but this a lot of handwringing for nothing.
Starting with the SI reporter who originally covered the story, everyone with a take is playing the martyr, eager to make themselves emotional victims of the evil, horrible Astros Organization.
Kendrick’s homer as some sort of divine justice? The World Series ruined b/c of rude, drunken words spoken by a man none of us have met and few of us had even heard of before? Calling for more firings and punishment based on what we think we know from anonymous sources?
Domestic violence is a serious issue.
But it’s made light by sports media and fans who want to see it addressed by correctly worded PR statements and front office turnover.
This is what you took away from the piece? The only person making light of domestic violence is you; citing a rogue employee insinuating that he was a lone wolf within the organization… when, by all accounts, this is a cultural issue starting at the top.
You then try to argue that the women supporting the victim and the cause are the ones making light of domestic violence?
This takes the cake for worst take of the day. Congratulations.
Yep, all of this is a show. Just think about it…. what has actually been done by anyone to reduce domestic violence from the day Osuna was suspended until now?
Is it likely that even a single episode of domestic violence has been prevented b/c of what the Blue Jays, media, MLB, etc have done?
Is it anymore likely that a single episode of domestic violence has been perpetrated because of what the Astros front office has done?
I don’t know the answer for sure. But I doubt it. Maybe the money donated by the various orgs helped someone in need? But the rest is just public spectacle.
I’m not sure if you live under a rock, but awareness clearly leads to empowerment.
I’m not sure if you missed the entire #MeToo movement, but by vocalizing and publicizing their (womens) stories, it empowered other women who were victims to come forward.
When said female reporters tweet out the Domestic Abuse hotline when Osuna pitches, they are being informative and supportive of women who are struggling in an abusive relationship. Will they call that number because it was tweeted? Maybe not, but knowing that people are out there supporting you is what drives victims to come forward in many cases. You acting as if you understand the struggles a woman faces in a predominately male workplace is not only naive, but concerning. Stop excusing the actions of an executive by claiming it was a one off.
You belittling the impact these women have by being supportive is not only ignorant, but also dangerous and hurtful. Just because you don’t understand something does not make it reality or factual.
By you ignoring the cultural implications here and treating this as a one off incident, you are doing exactly what the organization wants; ignoring the cause by focusing on the individualized outcome.
I’m not saying this is a one off incident. I make no claims about what the Astros front office culture is like. Maybe Luhnow and the rest are just as prone to being jerks?
My point on Taubman is that what he said simply doesn’t matter. And publishing the story, demanding apologies and firings has not helped a single domestic violence victim in anyway. Not even by promoting “awareness”.. which is the most ambiguous and useless measurement of effectiveness in existence.
Who has it helped? A lot of media and fans to feel good about themselves.
It’s a useless measurement yet we literally just saw it’s impact in the MeToo movement. My goodness.
Silence has led to decades of sexual harassment, assault and domestic violence against women. People like you who want all skeletons to stay locked in closets are why accountability is no where near the level it needs to be in these cases.
You keep putting words in my mouth. I don’t want skeletons or abuse or violence to stay hidden and unpunished.
Once again, who has firing Taubman helped? Who would be helped if Osuna was pumping gas or flipping hamburgers rather than pitching? Any violence or abuse get stopped? Any victims get rescued?
The only people I can see it helping are the media members who love the rage clicks and the fans who love to be enraged, hence my original comment about emotional martyrs.
When people know that there actions have consequences, it may deter them from doing those same acts in the future.
By not firing taubman, you are normalizing and legitimizing his behavior while excusing it; which creates a culture of acceptance and not one of accountability.
“When people know that there actions have consequences, it may deter them from doing those same acts in the future.”
I agree with you but it’s the consequence that’s out of proportion here.
The best way to handle this would have been a personal conversation between the people involved, asking for an apology and an explanation, which he may or may not have been willing to give. And that would be the end of it as far as I am concerned.
Making it public like this isn’t “brave” or “empowering”… its gossip and it’s for show.
Actually, I think it’s rude to tweet it out every time Osuna pitched. Its clearly TAUNTING, under any reasonable standard that those women would apply to themselves.
That would constitute harassment applied the other way. It may actually be supposed to be considered targeted harassment under twitter guidelines. Its repeated, and directed at a person. I agree with the poster about it being a show, and I would go even further than him.
I disagree with nearly every thing you say, and your ways of looking at it.
I don’t usually say things like this online to people I do not know, but you are a real piece of garbage.
No I am not. Im a good enough person, overall. No criminal record, but whatever anyways. Who are YOU? Who knows.
Everybody, men and women, have to have limits. They taunted the team and Osuna with their words and tweets, then he taunted back. That should at least be part of the conversation.
Im not even saying Taubman was justified. Sometimes, you need to hold your tongue. But, it’s delusional to me to think it wasn’t a back-and-forth.
No, that dude is right — you do sound like a piece of garbage.
This is because you’re delusional.
We can’t solve the stupid or the willfully ignorant. We can only oppose their viewpoints because otherwise the entire world gets further corrupted by stupidity and ignorance. And we are incredibly, unbelievably, tired of stupid/ignorant people crapping up the world for everyone else.
He’s totally correct, you are truly a garbage human being. Good for you that you don’t have a criminal record though, that’s a pretty high bar… You would think the absolutely enormous disparity in votes between your comments and everyone else’s might make you rethink your position, but here we are.
Ok, I’ll re-think it. What part of it? I will think, or re-consider any aspect of the situation, and maybe you should just be more compfortabe with somone disagreeing with you… just on principle. It builds charachter to discuss things, and its okay to talk about Mens poor behavior, as well as women’s
I personally know someone who said they felt empowered to come forward about an abusive relationship because of the increased media coverage of things like this in professional sports, so yes, it has made a difference…
Since we all know that everything before “but” doesn’t matter…
Sebastian’s take: The problem wasn’t a senior employee screaming at female reporters bragging about the team’s employment of an abuser. Instead the problem is the reporters reporting what happened, and those that were upset when the Astros FALSELY slandered the reporters.
Incredibly sad take.
Actually, both are problems… just problems of a different kind. Two wrongs don’t make a right as they say.
What Taubman did was wrong. I wouldn’t do it. And it isn’t defensible.
What the reporters did was also wrong.
The reporters felt wronged by Taubman so they took it up, not with Taubman, but with the public. They were probably confident that the uproar would cost Taubman his job.
Like I’ve pointed out elsewhere, making the story public does nothing for domestic violence victims… but it’s great for the media and rage posting.
The problems with this opinion are:
(1) They asked the Astros for comment before publishing the story. The Astros declined to comment. In doing so, they declined to try to reach any resolution before publishing.
(2) If someone screams at you inappropriately, is it your responsibility to first address the issue with that person? I’d argue that it is not. In fact, there could easily be circumstances in which that would not be a good idea (e.g., domestic violence!). The reporters could have tried to follow up with Taubman, but they were under no obligation to do so.
(3) If the media is willing to bury a story simply because it involves them and because it could potentially cost someone their job… then they have zero credibility.
(4) Why shouldn’t this cost Taubman his job? That seems like a very just outcome to me. If I acted like that in my job, I would certainly be fired.
The idea that the reporters did anything wrong here is an incredibly misguided opinion, and it is likely motivated by factors outside of this situation (e.g., your opinions on the credibility of the media, political correctness, women in the clubhouse, etc.).
My opinion is motivated by a firm belief that communication is important and that the best way tackle issues between people is for the people involved to talk directly and openly.
Like you said, there are cases where this isn’t safe to try (domestic violence). But in an MLB clubhouse, or afterwards at the Astros offices, this safety issue doesn’t apply.
I’ll say it again: making the story public didn’t help a single domestic violence victim.
The most lasting thing it accomplished was to make reconciliation between Taubman and the reporters all but impossible.
And that’s a shame.
You don’t know that it didn’t help a domestic violence victim. The publicity may have helped someone. That’s why there is publicity about the scourge of domestic violence – to show victims they aren’t alone, and that they don’t have to stay.
Even if it didn’t, that doesn’t play any part in your supposed “motivation” for your opinion. While I can see some circumstances in which direct/open communication is a good way to resolve issues, who bears the responsibility try to resolve the issue? Is it the attacker, or the attacked? If I hit someone, is it their responsibility to begin the communication? Should they have to immediately go to the person that just punched them to reconcile?
It is asinine to argue that it is the reporters’ responsibility to try to reconcile with the person who screamed at them. It was the Astros (and more specifically Taubman’s) responsibility. When given a chance to intervene before the story was published, they declined. Taubman could have tried to reach them immediately afterward, he could have issued a pre-emptive apology. He did neither. In fact, he lied to his superiors.
Again, your opinion doesn’t come from some supposed deeply held conviction about communication. It comes from some other agenda. That is likely clear to most.
I’m impressed you can read my heart and mind and know what I care about! lol
If you don’t want to believe me that’s fine.
Taubman didn’t commit a crime, and the reporters aren’t victims in any meaningful sense. Of course, Taubman said something rude and ugly, something he should never have said. And yes, he should have apologized then or shortly afterwards.
But he said it to them, not you, not me, not Osuna or the victims from his case.
It’s a personal issue. Dragging in all of baseball fandom hasn’t helped anyone.
And like I have told others here, I don’t buy the “awareness” argument. You can justify anything by appealing to awareness.
The “awareness” argument always applies, because it’s clear that we are nowhere near where we need to be in terms of awareness.
It’s one thing to build awareness of actual… you know criminal wrong doing. To build awareness of domestic violence.
This was not that. This was a few people have a squabble at work.
The reporters engaged in harassing tweets as well, which is barely talked about. That’s the whole reason Taubman was compelled to fire back in the first place. I’m not saying Taubman didn’t behave shitty, but so did they. Why not go harass a guy who had domestic violence charges dropped, who ISN’T famous? Because it doesn’t get attention, thats why. And after all this, we still barely know Osuna, or his lady, or really anything much about their relationship. These people dont even know her name, or what she wants. So sad. I want to fire the reporters. How is tweeting the DV hotline all the time not harassment? Leave us, and him, alone to enjoy our baseball.
Despite anything anybody will say we all know…
Roberto Osuna will earn millions of dollars playing baseball next year.
Taubman’s family will suffer for his inability to keep his mouth shut His kids will suffer. His wife will suffer. His career is over. All because he made an abusive comment about Roberto Osuna.
Meanwhile, Osuna will earn millions.
Firing Taubman without releasing Osuna is meaningless. If Taubman could throw a ball 98 mph, he could do or say whatever he wanted.
I agree, if you’re going to fire Taubman, why on earth would you keep Osuna… but there’s the inconvenient fact of timing. Osuna didn’t do anything to these reporters. He apparently wasn’t even nearby. So how do you release him?
Another sign this whole situation is bonkers.
If Taubman was actually a valuable employee, he’ll get hired within a year or two at most. Most teams don’t really care about what he said.
Brandon Taubman will likely never work in baseball again. He’s that toxic. But he’ll just go back to investment banking — that seems to be a field that excuses a lot of personal failings.
Publicly supportung domestic abuse should get anybody fired.
If you publicly support any of the following things, you should be fired:
Terrorism,
Child abuse
Domestic abuse
Racism
Sexism
Communism
Child pornography
Slavery
Socialism
Anti Semitism
Didn’t the POTUS start a trade war because too many Americans support Communism by purchasing too many Communist products?
Socialism? Do players from Canada, Nordic countries, and other countries with a socialist welfare state need to watch what they say?
I think the words you were looking for we’re “Fascism”, “Totalitarianism”, and their ilk.
I mean it sounds like fascism and totalitarianism is exactly what he is looking for so he clearly knows what he is doing.
I would add Fascism, Totalitariansism, and other hideous isms to my list.
Actually, none of t hose countries are actually socialist.
Look up the definition and you’ll find that they’re all capitLists.
Nanny states, but still capitalist and proud of it.
You have to look to Cuba, venezuela, and China to find countries where the government actually *owns* the companies. Deep subsidies don’t equal socialism but nationalizing entire sectors of the economy does.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equinor
And plenty of other examples (been to a post office lately?)
Socialism is a spectrum, and even right wing fanatics who can’t let go of cold war era fear-mongering benefit from elements of it every single day.
If you want to control what people say (publicly support), then you sound like a socialist leader. So, go ahead and go right into work and resign today. Stand up for what you believe!
Socialism is an economic system, smart guy. It has no bearing one way or the other on control of political expression.
I was told it can end up with a guy at the top, forcing everyone to turn over their money, and people are not allowed to disagree. Controlling peoples economics is about the most fascist thing I can think of anyways. So, Id think there might be some disagreement there. Maybe some “smart guys” are here, who can clear it up?
Then leave it off your list of things that should get people fired. It would be on my list along with Fascism, Communism, Racism, Sexism, domestic Violence, Child Pornography, etc.
“Crimes and economic systems I don’t like are against the rules.” – murder ok? Grand theft auto? Revenge porn? Your list is silly.
I also assume that when you say *terrorism” that you mean foreign Islamic extremist groups and not domestic white supremacists. Noice.
During the rectification of the Vuldronaii, the Traveller came as a large and moving Torb! Then, during the third reconciliation of the last of the Meketrex Supplicants they chose a new form for him… that of a Giant Sloar! Many Shubs and Zuuls knew what it was to be roasted in the depths of the Sloar that day I can tell you.”
not gonna lie you had me there in the first half
I too struggled with this. How can a devoted Mets fan have even a smidgen of sympathy for the Nats, the team over the last half decade that has crushed my baseball soul more than any other? This was an Astros team I wanted to like, but the management consistently showed a disregard for basic human decency–and bragged about it. A team that is the model of excellent baseball operations and development has become the villain.
But I’m also dissatisfied with that because really all this hatred and disdain is centered around one man and the reaction to him. It’s not the fault of Bregman, Verlander, Cole, and the rest that the Astros decided to acquire a domestic abuser–and several of the players have been vocally critical of that decision. After all, don’t we watch this game for players? Is it right to want the best group of players together on a team we have seen in a century to lose because an assistant GM was a horrible person? That divine hand of justice is striking judgement against Verlander as much as it is Osuna.
And this doesn’t even get into the issue of what to do with Osuna. I hate that the Astros were financially incentivized to acquire him because of domestic violence allegations. But I’m also pretty uncomfortable with the precedent of people losing jobs because they engaged in conduct I find personally distasteful. I’m confident we’re doing the right thing in this case, but that would also provide the same rationale for teams to release players after past or offseason recreational marijuana use, which I’m confident is not the right thing. Furthermore, while consequences are important, suddenly losing your entire livelihood and future career opportunities doesn’t create a good environment for reforming bad behavior, as our criminal justice system can attest to.
It’s complicated. Consequences are essential, but excessive punitive measures are harmful too. Osuna is odious, but does that extend to his team? Even if the Astros organization is complicit, should players that have no decision-making power and also are the reason we care about any of this in the first place be the ones to suffer?
As an A’s fan, how to feel about this situation was no struggle for me at all!
You say that Verlander, Bregman, et al, have “no decision-making power?” They can decide to play for other teams — both of them signed contracts with the Astros after seeing Osuna acquired. And regardless of how distasteful JV may have found the trade initially, he knew what team he was deciding to stick with.
I can feel some measure of sympathy for pre-arb players who have no other option but to play for the Astros…but for what exactly? What exactly do they suffer because of Osuna being on the team? Bad feelings?
Thanks for writing this Meg. I have been an Astros fan since I first went to an Astros game in the dome at the age of 6 in 1986.
Last year (2018), I was very upset by the Osuna acquisition. I felt like the Astros could have easily avoided this situation (it is very different to choose to add a player vs. having a player who makes a mistake). Also, the 2017 Astros were not just a great team and World Series Champions but supported a cause much bigger than themselves in trying to draw attention and help the relief efforts from Hurricane Harvey, which devastated the city. For example, my mom’s house, the house I grew up in, had a foot of water throughout the house, and we had to pull everything out of the house, remove the carpet and drywall, etc.
I love that the Astros are analytical. I want them to be that to the greatest extent possible. However, that being said, there is a real value to a clubhouse chemistry and relationships within that may or may not be picked up by the models. Even if there is a calculated risk picked by the models in such an acquisition of Osuna, the multiple Harvey pictures on the insides of lockers in 2017 proved that real life matters and what you do on the field can have a positive impact on individuals and their lives. Conversely, what you do off the field can carry over to the clubhouse and field.
Early on when the Astros were still bad, Luhnow was blamed for dehumanizing players and treating them as pawns. This is the same issue but to an extreme.
Last night, when the Nationals won, there was part of me that was glad that we had not done it, because we would have relied upon what I feel was a mistake for this organization. I see this as a blip in time for an organization that has done the right thing for decades. I hope that the Astros have the ability and strength to fully address and rectify this issue and return to making decisions that factor in the human condition alongside the strongest possible data analytics.
We should hold people accountable for their behavior, whether they are in management, or can throw a ball 98 MPH or hit it 500 feet. And businesses need to be aware that their potential customers are judging them not just by the product on the field (or on the shelves) but also how they conduct themselves. Osuna did what he did, there was a significant suspension, and, in our system, he’s served his time. That doesn’t make him a guy I would root for or want on my team –I think he’d bring disrepute to my organization. I can’t imagine hiring anyone like him–his past acts would define my judgement. But if I did hire him, he’s got a contract I have to honor until it’s over, and for that, I need to take the consequences–release him, or take heat.
Taubman was an idiot. He was upset that the reporter was unhappy with the Astros hiring Osuna in the first place, and he showed zero judgment. His intent was hard to mistake, and under those circumstances, good business sense would have been to label his words unacceptable to the organization and penalize him. The Astros bungled it. There’s no other way to characterize it. Taubman shouldn’t be automatically blackballed in the future, but he had to go.
As for spoiling the World Series, well, I can understand the sentiment, but it was a very small, albeit ugly, portion of a terrific matchup.
Hasn’t the Beast of Political Correctness already been fed on this one?
The guy was fired for an off-handed comment. Fired.
What more does the Me-Too-Far crowd need?
Never mind the specific comment: Going by their deeds, the Astros found nothing wrong in the comment itself so that’s not what got him fired.
What got him fired was the distraction he created: he made tbe company look bad to the general public (starting with the 50% without a y-chromosome). That is a firing offense in any business and it happens all the time. It’s not even a recent development.
That’s not why he was fired. He was fired because he lied to his GM, who believed him.
He was toast as soon as the truth came out. So he was not only a total jerk for what he said to the women, but a liar who ended up making the owner of the team grovel in front of the press.
Now Astros did claim he was fired for what he said to the women, but that was spin to take some heat off the Astros.
Not saying he wouldn’t have been suspended if he had told Luhnow the truth and apologized to the women.
Sports at all levels are filled with bullies. People like Taubman drive decent people away from sports.
I cannot tell you how many times I have heard kids and parents yell (no joke) “pussy,” “fag,” “homo,” and all sorts of sexist, homophobic, horrid things. I have heard adults tell kids to “man-up,” and “be a man” as if toughness is inherently “male”.
Taubman is not the disease. He is just a symptom. Firing him solves nothing.
In sports – if you are a great athlete, you may be criticized but you don’t really get any meaningful punishment for being an abuser. Throw a 4 seamer 98 mph, and we will let you beat your wife.
You seem to not understand how one gets rid of a disease.
An overly simplified explanation of my view is that yes, people do deserve second chances in life, but to be a professional athlete is a higher bar. Being a professional athlete is a privilege, not a right, and one must live up to higher standards to be a professional athlete than just a free human being.
Sadly, the hypocrisy shown by the Astros in this case is commonplace in all of sport. The NFL should be called the National Felon League but as long as some guy can catch a pass or make a tackle he is given several chances and every professional sport has similar examples. Everybody accepts the fact college athletics is a cesspool of cheating, illegal payments and players who are no more “student” athletes than most of us. Is there a defining line on what anti-social behavior is acceptable and what crosses that line?
The “cheating” you refer to in college athletics is like…some guys accepting remuneration for their valuable work in violation of arbitrary rules set by rich guys who want to be the only ones allowed to profit from their labor. That’s the damn most American thing I’ve ever heard.
Reading some of these comments, and the comments on many other websites, it’s unfortunately clear to see why we have a cretin inhabiting the white house. And in many other positions of “leadership”, including (but certainly not limited to), the Astros front office and ownership.
I hope one day we as a society can improve and be better, but I think we’re moving in the wrong direction more and more everyday, sadly.
I’m told society waxes and wanes. The straitlaced and abusive 50s were followed by the free 60s. The mind-exploding, bottomless gaslighting derp we’re seeing from this traitor administration was preceded by the freedom narratives of the Obama administration. I can only hope we come out of this sooner rather than later.
When a man beats his wife/a woman, there are always people expressing blasé cynicism and saying let’s just move on. Have you ever noticed that pretty much none of those people are women? Has it occurred that this is a big data point, data dorks? The reason is basically every woman you know has lawsuits they chose not to pursue. Just don’t be a jerk is not that hard.
Thank you for writing this Meg. It does feel like the tide is slowly, but surely, turning. thanks to sportswriters here at FanGraphs and throughout baseball twitter.
Let’s say, hypothetically, the author of this article had been charged with (but never convicted of) DUI a few years ago. Let’s also say she had been suspended by her employer, expressed contrition and ultimately found new employment as a baseball writer.
In this hypothetical scenario, would it be considered harassment or merely increasing awareness if someone who covered the sports media industry persistently quote-tweeted each of the author’s new article announcements with a link to Mothers Against Drunk Driving?
I don’t think I have seen a single apology from Osuna.
After his case has been settled, his statement was
“I am pleased and relieved by today’s court decision. Now I can begin to put these allegations behind me and focus on baseball. I want to thank my family, teammates and fans for believing in me. I am grateful to the Astros for providing me with the opportunity to play baseball and compete for a World Series championship.
I will make no further comments about this matter, as I plan on moving past this and look only to the future.”
Does this look like something a contrite human being would say?
Perhaps the plan is 3-4 years of sustained, terrible culture followed by a golden age of enlightened, empathetic professionalism?
Best thing I read on Fangraphs this year.
Confirmed. Meg Rowley is the David Roth of FanGraphs.
*Meant as a compliment, not to diminish Meg’s individual voice in any way
This reminds me of Bobby Cox and his allegations, yet he was employed with the Braves for years and even got his number retired.
https://tht.fangraphs.com/mlb-turned-a-blind-eye-to-bobby-coxs-domestic-abuse/
Sad but true.
I know I am biased towards the NATS, but had the NATS not been playing in the World Series I would have to still have rooted against Houston because of their choice to put winning above what is decent.
Abusers like Osuna and bullies like Tauchman have no right to expect to remain employed. Chronic, life-long neglecters of their loved ones, like me, don’t deserve to live.