Padres Negotiate With All, Strike Deal With None
Every season, teams play roughly 100 games before the trade deadline. During that time, there are two kinds of teams: buyers and sellers. As sellers, it is their job to give buyers a hard time to trade worthwhile players to the buyers in exchange for players to be used in the future or moving financial obligations that selling teams no longer wish to possess. By all accounts, the San Diego Padres were clearly in the sellers’ camp, yet they held on to all of their players, both potential short-term rentals like Justin Upton, Joaquin Benoit, and Ian Kennedy and longer-term players like Tyson Ross and Craig Kimbrel. The Padres have desirable players on their team, and the decision to hold onto all of their players is curious, although they did make a small move, acquiring lefty reliever Marc Rzepczynski.
After the trade deadline passed, Padres general manager A.J. Preller was said to believe the Padres had a chance to make the playoffs this season:
#Padres largely standing pat because GM A.J. Preller believes the team can reach the postseason, source says.
— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) July 31, 2015
The Padres, as presently constituted, do not look like a playoff team. They are 49-53 with a -53 run differential, and BaseRuns, which strips out sequencing, indicates the Padres have actually been pretty lucky, as their BaseRuns record is actually five games worse than their present one. Our projections do not seem to hint at any great improvement moving forward either, as the team is projected to finish with an 80-82 record. They are currently eight games out in their division and 7.5 games out of the wild-card spot. More troubling than the deficit in the standings, they would have to pass four teams that all appear to be as good or better than the Padres to make the postseason. Their current playoff odds are under 4% for this season. Preller is either delusional or he simply could not get the type of return on his players that he expected. Given the huge amount of rumors associated with the Padres over the last few days, it is fair to assume the latter.
More likely than Preller’s belief that the Padres can contend is that a market once thought to be a seller’s market with many teams in contention reversed itself, and the Padres could not extract the type of value they were hoping to receive. Preller is not afraid to make trades, as he exhibited on multiple occasions during the offseason — and right up to the regular season, as well, when he traded for Craig Kimbrel just as the season was beginning. If the rumors have any bit of truth to them, Preller was working on multiple fronts, attempting to gauge the value of young cost-controlled Tyson Ross and closer Craig Kimbrel, signed through 2017 with an option for 2018, along with moving out rentals like hitter Justin Upton and reliever Joaquin Benoit as well as trying to move bad contracts like Jedd Gyorko or perhaps even Melvin Upton, Jr.
The Padres no doubt had many balls in the air, and as the deadline neared, Preller appears to have dropped them all, but how much value some of the potential trade chips actually have is not entirely clear.
Rentals
The Padres have four potential free agents who could potentially be moved. Ian Kennedy has struggled with the long ball and with a salary close to $10 million he will likely clear waivers. Benoit is making $8 million this season and with a $1.5 million buyout for next year, the opportunity to deal him is not over. Will Venable makes just $4.2 million, but Ben Revere did not provide a tremendous return, Rajai Davis did not get traded, so the return on Venable might not have been meaningful and could have require the Padres to pick up the rest of the salary. For the above players, holding on, putting the players through waivers and seeing if teams are a little more desperate over the next month is at least a reasonable strategy.
Holding on to Justin Upton is not quite as reasonable. Yes, the Padres will receive a draft pick as compensation at the end of the season should Upton sign with another team in the offseason. That pick does have value, but the draft is now a year away, and a decent prospect who has already developed some would have better value. Teams like the Mets and Orioles were seen as in on Upton ahead of the deadline and the package that the Mets sent to the Detroit Tigers for Yoenis Cespedes is better than a draft pick after the first round 10 months from now. That is not to say that the Padres actually received an offer today that is more valuable than the compensation pick as the market dampened and teams chose to stand down — or in Detroit’s case, sell — devaluing Upton in the trade market. Upton is unlikely to pass through waivers and the claiming team is unlikely to offer more value than a compensation pick. Preller appears to have mis-timed the market for Upton, but the team will not end up empty-handed.
Long-Term Assets
Rumors abounded that Craig Kimbrel and Aroldis Chapman were potentially on the move. Kimbrel is controlled for two more seasons after this one, with an additional option year — all likely to come at elite closer prices, limiting the number of teams that could have gone after him. In this case, we have a little better sense about the offers for Kimbrel.
yankees were willing to put in jorge mateo and take back gyorko and eat a good part of it to get kimbrel. pads said no.
— Jon Heyman (@JonHeymanCBS) July 31, 2015
Either someone has an axe to grind with Preller, they want to defend the Yankees’ inaction at the deadline, or Preller passed up what appears to be a pretty good deal. Jedd Gyorko is owed more than $33 million after this season, but has hit terribly since his solid 2013 rookie season. The Padres appear to have been able to shed a lot of salary and receive a decent prospect in return.
James Shields will likely pass through waivers, and the Padres will have another opportunity to trade him. If another team claims him, they would be wise to let him go as they will have paid under $10 million for his youngest season in a deal that pays Shields $21 million per year for the next three years as well as a $2 million buyout on a 2019 option.
Andrew Cashner has been roughly average this season and is under control for next season, but after the Giants picked up Mike Leake, there was not a big market for pitchers as the Texas Rangers also held on to Yovani Gallardo. Cashner will not likely command a big payday in arbitration, and it is conceivable that his value will be larger in winter or perhaps even next season if he can get his home runs down to 2012-2013 levels.
Tyson Ross was the Padres biggest trade asset. He has a great strikeout rate above 25% to go along with a high walk rate, and there was reportedly heavy interest in Ross, who cannot become a free agent until after the 2017 season. Ross is a solid pitcher now, and he could have another level to reach if he can get his walk rate down. San Diego could have torn things down with Ross as the centerpiece of a major deal, but holding on to him was not necessarily the worst deal.
Entering the trading season, it looked like the best option for the Padres would be to sell everyone, get rid of salary, and try to get younger pieces for contention some time in the future. For a small-market team with a limited budget and some big contracts attached to Melvin Upton, Jr., Matt Kemp, Shields, and Gyorko on the payroll, that is the best course of action for a non-contending team, if it were possible. A diminished market saw Preller missing the best time to move the most marketable players, and the trade deadline might well have provided few palatable deals. It is possible that Preller was somewhat hesitant to tear down the team he tried to build in less than a year, but some of these moves are at least defensible. A massive selloff might not have been possible today, but an opportunity to tear down the team and start over was likely missed over the past week.
Craig Edwards can be found on twitter @craigjedwards.
Maybe they are thinking of the fans who purchased tickets in advance. Hard to watch a team that is gutted and which has given up. Offseason spending to draw more fans to buy tickets in advance might not work again in coming years. Fool me once……
I would like to push the trade deadline up to June 30 so fewer teams have the opportunity to blow things up. Players will wear the uniform of the team they started the season with in the ASG
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You know what brings fans into the stands and then keeps them happy? Winning baseball games.
Any organization that makes baseball decisions based on the “message” it sends to the fans says only one thing to their fanbase: we’re clowns!
although it does seem inconsistent that everyone rips the Marlins for unloading all their high price rentals when the season unfolds poorly, but then rips the Padres for not doing so.
Dont remember the marlins ever blowing their farm.
The Marlins multiple times have blown up their entire team, including players that are under contract for longer, even when that team looks like it should be better. Remember how they got Buehrle and Reyes, and sold them the very next year?
From what I understood, the Marlins just sign a bunch of FAs and then trade them away after a season or two. So they didn’t really mortgage their future other than taking on extra payroll. Whereas the Padres built their current team by trading away half their farm system and taking on less financial burden, because many of their players have short term contracts or in case of Kemp, have the Dodgers pay for part of the salary.
So in that sense there is a difference.
Haven’t looked through the archives here, but there were several posts that admitted that from a baseball persepective, the Marlins sell-off of Reyes, etc, made sense.
The problem was the impression that it left that the team wasn’t trying to compete with it’s shiny new $800M stadium after having promised to do so with a high payroll… but again, if the players they had weren’t going to win…
selling off Buerhle and Reyes wasn’t just good baseball, it was common freakin’ sense. I don’t see the Pads doing much common sense right now. They’re accumulating LONG TERM, overpaid veterans and not moving them to contenders when teams are trying to get a leg up for a postseason run.
Big difference between the veteran laundering the Marlins do and the Preller insanity.
At this point I would trade the Padres’ situation for that of any other team. Even the Phillies have acknowledged a rebuild is necessary. The Pads have Myers, Renfroe, a bunch of onerous contracts and play in the same division as the Dodgers who are richer, more talented, and much better managed. I’m so depressed.
Just need a long term rebuild. Which would be plausible if they aren’t hosting the all star game with a g.m who will be on the hot seat.if he waited one year byrnes and hoyer had them set up pretty nice.
If that Yankees deal is legit, I don’t know which GM to be more frustrated at.
Cashman. At least Preller is insane.
At least Cashman could have said he could win 90+% of games he was leading after 6 innings…
This. We know Preller’s in over his head.
Cashman should, by all accounts, know better than this.
chances are against the prospect and the closer gives you a better chance at winning
you could say that about literally every prospect-for-big-leaguer trade, and yet teams still trade big leaguers for prospects.
Because if that team isn’t going to compete while they control that big leaguer, it’s better to have a prospect who might fail.
The closer is the most irrelevant player on the roster.
Your opinion is wrong.
No, its spot on. Closer, please. Versatile long relief is much more valuable.
The closer position is overrated, not necessarily the pitcher in that role. You can’t just toss Randy Choate into the 9th inning with a 1 run lead and hope to compete.
you could say that you can’t toss Randy Choate in any situation and hope to compete
I didn’t think it was possible, but there’s a team that’s even more dysfunctional than the Marlins and Phillies.
local AZ sports talk bozo @Gambo987: “Dave Stewart tells Burns and Gambo the Padres wanted Paul Goldschmidt from the Dbacks for closer Craig Kimbrell….WOW”
at least they could keep pollock
Assuming Heyman is correct (not always a great assumption) there’s not much logic to the Pads turning that Kimbrel offer down. Maybe they felt they just couldn’t after trading for him and paying more. But Kimbrel doesn’t do much more a team that’s not going to contend
I know hindsight is 20/20, but Preller made all these preseason deals. Fans were eager for the season.
Looking back, if he just stood pat, made no trades, then SD would be in much better shape TODAY. Maybin, Turner and Wisler off the top off my head… Sad.
Not to mention trading Grandal, 26, and a couple of pitching prospects for the right to pay Matt Kemp the largest contract in franchise history (5 years $75m).
I was actually reading an article dated before the James Shields signing (4 years $75m) that’s obviously a larger contract.
If they hadn’t trade Grandal for Matt Kemp then they wouldn’t have had to trade Jesse Hahn, who’s younger better and cheaper than Shields.
aj Prellier is a dumb@$$
A lot of people are being really hard on Preller here. At least at the time of the offseason, I think most of the moves were met with mild skepticism, but also were seen as reasonable. Now, that may be because we didn’t know quite how to value the prospects in the trades, and he gutted the farm system more than we thought, but still. So, I don’t know that we can quite say he’s really that terrible. If Kemp had continued to do what he did in the second half of 2014 – like many thought he would – and Grandal stagnated, we might feel a lot differently.
Not trading Upton I think is pretty hard to defend, but he deserves a little more benefit of the doubt at this point.
Many analysts called the Kemp deal a huge mistake for the Padres at the time it was announced. Dave Cameron compared it to the Vernon Wells deal, that is, one of the worst deals, not just of the off-season, but of the last decade. So, no, it was not considered “reasonable” at the time.
Any comparison to the Vernon Wells deal was idiotic from jump.
Kemp was 2 years younger than Wells at the time of the trade, and the Padres owe Kemp $11m less over 5 seasons than the Angels owed Wells over four, despite five years of remarkable inflation separating the deals.
It wasn’t a great deal for the Pads, but no one who’s actually looked at the two deals would compare them.
I think it’s completely fair to question taking on Matt Kemp’s contract, as many did at the time.
If it had played out differently, and Kemp had continued to hit forty percent better than league average, if he had, then he would still only be worth a win and a half per 600 PA. He’d be a below average everyday regular because, well, you can’t hide him in that outfield, not even in a corner.
As you know, Kemp has had shoulder and ankle operations in recent years and, and the medical exam taken for on the eve of the trade revealed he had arthritis in his hips, both of his hips.
AJ Preller built his outfield like I built my infield for the Rangers; going around the horn we got A-Rod, Machado, Kinsler and David Ortiz at first, (he was available in the late rounds of the draft, and I needed a lefty power bat to hit 8th) and it’s at this point you realize I’m talking about The Show.
People are being hard on him because there’s very little historical reference for this kind of abject blundering from a first-time GM. He didn’t just gut the Pads’ system, he hogtied the team with numerous contractual albatrosses.
It’s no less than the franchise deserves, though. They should have hired Kim Ng, and they should have gone back to the brown by now.
uh….really?
REALLY? He traded the Padres entire farm system, gave up every decent young player on a good contract, for overrated and defensively challenged big names. Every single post made by statistically minded websites, like the one you are on, essentially said the Padres did not get any better. The current iteration of the Padres is exactly as bad as most people of any intelligence knew they were going to be. There was no defense for the moves Preller made a year ago, and there’s no defense for him standing pat when he should be entering full rebuild mode now. I can’t think a GM has done more to harm a franchise’s future within the last 20 years. And he’s done it in less than a year.
It might be said that this is a stealth rebuild. Preller has cleared the minor league system of assets he didn’t value, added payroll in a flashy way which has ameliorated the fan base without harming their chance at a reasonable draft position and has purchased a core of name brand players whom, with the exception of Justin Upton, will be in place long enough to allow Preller space to build the farm system to his liking yet be off the payroll when the farm system is ready to produce. I think he’s used money to hide the fact that they are rebuilding rather than cratering the team completely for three or four years.
It might also be said that Hitler was a vegetarian, saving countless animal lives.
So he has started a rebuild by doing the exact opposite of a rebuild?
No, he’s started a rebuild while trying to put an end to the hemorrhaging of fans that the team has dealt with over the last few years.
Yeah, overpaid underperforming albatrosses are what puts butts in seats. Lol.
I’m somewhat in this line.
I may be way off, but wasn’t the Pads’ farm pre-Preller stacked with good but not great prospects? A lot of 45-50 FV guys? Maybe the Friars ownership decided they wanted to stop the matriculation of B prospects like Gyorko that won them consistent 3rd place finishes. In falling on their face, they can at least get a string of very high draft picks and potentially land some blue chippers along the way. Not that I agree with this strategy, though….
Except they’re not even falling on their face. They’re just below average. Which is the worst place to be.
They blew their whole load on what is a below average team. Last offseason when Preller was giving his money shot all over the country, every analyst essentially said the team wasn’t getting any better. That’s exactly what is playing out.
True.
Perhaps the rationale is that they’ll have shown fans that at least they tried when they’re finishing last in the NL West every year starting 2016. I’m really reaching here…
This is about saving face. How could Preller possibly sell after four months after going for broke? The Kemp deal was ridiculous. He gave a division rival an All Star catcher, a starting shortstop (the flip to the Phillies), and $73.25 million for a famously bad egg who can’t run or catch a fly ball.
Even if Upton and Shields get through waivers they will have to be essentially given away at this point. What should worry Padres fans about Preller is his stubbornness and hubris.
I’d respect him and his abilities as a GM more if he admitted the obvious and blew it up.
We get it, Preller was the excited newb at the big boy table last winter and went a little crazy. Bad move(s), sure, but suck it up and fix the goddamned problem.
Worst season by a GM ever? He’s basically did, in one year, what it took Ruben Amaro 5 to do.
On smart baseball sites (this one), everyone said what the Marlins did was smart; and buying up the free agents was stupid. They ridiculed most of Preller’s trades. This comes to no surprise to anyone on this site.
It’s just amazing that, if you read the Padres pages/facebook, there are still fans clinging on to the idea of a comeback.
I guess the moral of the story is, fans are stupid and this proves why they shouldn’t run teams.
The Padres are horribly run. Why would you not unload Kimbrel along with part of the Gyorko contract? Makes no sense. They have way way way too much money sunk into a closer, a useless second baseman, a decent but not overwhelming starter and a past-his-prime right fielder.
They didn’t do that for the same reason the Phillies didn’t trade Ryan Howard for Clayton Kershaw. They weren’t actually offered that deal.
For everyone ragging on the Padres, keep in mind a few things:
1) New ownership said they would spend and try to compete, and they are keeping their word (they spent in the offseason, and they are trying—however feebly—to compete)
2) Home attendance percentages are up this year (by about 11%)
3) Hindsight is 20/20 (who would have thought Cameron Maybin would turn it around?)
4) You can’t win every trade (Yasmani Grandal, Cameron Maybin, and Joe Ross are killing it; Jesse Hahn, Burch Smith, and Max Fried are (still) injured; Joe Wieland, Rene Rivera have turned into pumpkins; Mallex Smith, Trea Turner, Jake Bauers, Jordan Parouebeck, and Zach Eflin have yet to and might never play a major league game).
5) Baseball is filled with blustering jackasses who are quick to badmouth people while hiding under the names of “unnamed” or “nameless” or “anonymous”
6) We’ll never know what Preller was really offered
I’m not saying he’s right or wrong. As a Padres fan, I’m hoping he made the right move. Sometimes the best trades are the ones you don’t make. When watching the offseason play out, it looked like AJ was making room for his own guys. This always happens, and has happened before. Hoyer did it (http://www.hardballtimes.com/evaluating-jed-hoyers-brief-stay-in-san-diego/), and Byrnes did it (http://www.baseballprospectus.com/a/23961), and both did it to terrible effect. Maybe the comp pick for Upton or giving guys like Kennedy a QO were better alternatives than the players GMs offered him. The only thing I’m certain of is that this season isn’t over yet. There’s still a chance, even if it’s a Dumb & Dumber “one in a million” shot.
Hey Ted Brogan,
Really thoughtful response. I dig it. I’m a Dodgers fan but not a hater on any other team – just love the game. I feel bad for Preller and ownership…but they went all Donald Trump this offseason. Fancy and thoughtless. Just wanting to make a splash, they spent themselves into purgatory for a decade.
They have NO money now, because it is all in Shields and Kemp. They have no farm system because Preller traded it.
You are right, none of us have any idea what actually went down, but clearly Preller could NOT cash out on 7/31 because it would have cost him his credibility to sell at 35 cents on the dollar…and probably his job.
It’s a fascinating business scenario, really. Where do they go from here? Again. Not hating at all. I love San Diego. Cool people everywhere. Just wow with what they are doing.
Well, the thing is, we don’t know how much money they have to spend. This is a new ownership that is showing it is willing to spend money. For once, the team is not locked away in layaway, suffering through the divorce of an owner who cashed out when he cut and run (*cough*John Moores*cough*). Plus, one of the new owners is one of the richest men in Mexico (Alfredo Harp Helu—Cousin of Carlos “Slim” Helu).
I’m not saying this because I have delusions that they will buy up all the incoming FAs, but because I straight up have no idea what they are thinking or planning on doing. This is territory both strange and new for Padres fans.