Rearranging the Padres, By Popular Suggestion

A few minutes ago, I noticed that “Padres” was trending on Twitter. Imagine knowing that, and only that, several months ago. If I told you last June that “Padres” would be trending in the middle of February, you probably would’ve assumed one of two things. One, perhaps the San Diego Padres had been officially contracted. Or two, perhaps some citizen investigator had discovered that the Padres still exist. But we know the astonishing reality with which we’re growing accustomed: the Padres are a thing, and with all the moves they’ve made, there’s no question the team wants to win as soon as this season. They don’t want to win just this season, but it stands to reason the Padres would like to make this team as good as they can.

OK, perfect, keep that in mind. The Padres want to be good, right? How could they optimize the team? I’m going to blockquote some of you.

From Dave’s chat:

Comment From Drew
Wouldn’t it make more sense for the Padres to Move Kemp to 1B, Myers to RF, and platoon Maybin/Venable in CF? No drop in offense, and definite improvement in defense.

From the comments underneath a recent Petriello post:

Anthony Rescan says:
I honestly think they’d be better off flipping Alonso and buying Matt Kemp a sweet, new first baseman’s mitt.

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Spa City says:
I assume Matt Kemp will work his way to 1B before too long, no? If nothing else, his bat should be reasonable for a first baseman.

Timbooya says:
Moving Kemp to first could be the easiest way for the Padres to improve their team.

High ceilings says:
If the team has as bad an infield as projected, presumably personnel would shuffle, perhaps including a switch from the outfield to first base for Kemp.

Now for the math. Let’s take this idea and work through it. As things stand, this is how the Padres seem to line up:

1B: Yonder Alonso
CF: Wil Myers
RF: Matt Kemp

But, there are bench players still on the team, outfielders among them, and what if, say, the Padres opted for this?

1B: Matt Kemp
CF: Will Venable / Cameron Maybin
RF: Wil Myers

There’s no way for us to actually know. But there are ways for us to estimate. Let’s do that to see if we can make the Padres better than they already are, just by rearranging a few pieces they already have. I’ll make some use of the Steamer projections, the ZiPS projections and the positional adjustments.

Offensively speaking, this is fairly straightforward. You’re removing from the lineup one Yonder Alonso, and you’re adding a platoon of Cameron Maybin and Will Venable. Last season, all of these hitters were bad. Alonso was the least bad. But we can do better than looking at just last season’s statistics. Over careers, Alonso and Venable have been about the same, and Maybin has brought up the rear. ZiPS likes Alonso to be the best hitter in 2015. The same goes for Steamer. I’d estimate a wOBA gap of around 20 points, which, over nearly a full season, is worth 10 runs. That’s an approximate difference between the two options, swinging the bat.

But wait! There’s also the minor — but relevant — matter of base running. Alonso’s a first baseman, and it won’t surprise you to learn he has a slightly negative career base-running score. Maybin comes in at +24 runs. Venable, +21 runs. This is all looking at careers, instead of individual seasons, but there’s nothing revelatory here; you’re comparing a first baseman against two guys who’ve shown the ability to play center field. Of course the center fielders are better on the bases. We’ll call the difference, over nearly a full year, roughly five runs. And this might well be conservative.

So you’d be looking at an offensive deficit of five runs. It would be up to the defense to balance that out. And you’d be dealing with defensive changes at three positions. So much of this is guesswork, but let’s guess about those three positions.

At first base, you’d be going from Alonso to Kemp. Alonso, we have a read on: He seems to be an above-average defensive first baseman. Call it +5 runs. Kemp’s a mystery, because he’s only ever played the outfield. We also have a good idea that, in recent years, he’s been real bad in the outfield. If you think of Kemp as a -15 corner outfielder, then applying the positional adjustment would make him a -10 first baseman. On the one hand, he’s never played the position before; on the other hand, his big problem in the outfield is range. The worst qualified first baseman last year by UZR/150 came out at -5. Let’s just stick with -10. Let’s say that Kemp really is a defensive liability anywhere.

In center, it’s Myers to Venable and Maybin. Myers has mostly played right, and he’s been in the vicinity of league-average. So the positional adjustment would put him at something like -10 in the middle. No one expects him to be good. Venable and Maybin? They’ve both been above-average center fielders in the past. Venable would probably play more, being left-handed, and he’s been a little worse than Maybin. He’s also older. Let’s just call them average, as a group. It’s safe, if maybe a bit conservative. So this is an upgrade in center.

And then there’s right, where you’d go from Kemp to Myers. Earlier, we considered Kemp a -15 corner outfielder. We also just figured Myers is roughly a +0 corner outfielder. So, that makes this simple. If you prefer a different Myers rating, then you also have to change his rating in center, and that just cancels out. Same deal with Kemp, if you apply the positional adjustment to move him to first. So the specific numbers here aren’t that important. Kemp moves down the spectrum, Myers moves down the spectrum and you subtract Alonso and introduce Venable and Maybin. You don’t need math to understand that makes for a stronger defense.

Using these estimates, the defense would be 15 runs worse at first, 10 runs better in center, and 15 runs better in right. In all, that would be a 10-run upgrade. Now, maybe, with the way things stand, the Padres will be aggressive about defensive replacements, like the Giants have previously been in left field. But on the other side, maybe Kemp would have a smoother transition to first base, and he wouldn’t be a -10 defender. You can argue in both directions. Maybe first base would be better for Kemp’s health. I don’t know. Let’s stick with +10.

The estimates, then, would be +10 in the field, and -5 on offense. Which, obviously, works out to roughly +5 runs overall. There are a few ways to interpret this. One, it’s not a bad idea. Any edge is an edge, right? The Padres should try to squeeze as many runs as possible out of the players they have. But five runs is also a terribly small margin, and it’s well within our error bars. And then there’s the contentedness issue: Kemp didn’t much like being demoted from center field in Los Angeles. He’s already having to adjust to a new ballclub in a new market, and maybe he’d hate the idea of learning a new position on top of everything else. A new and somewhat insulting position, a position that would make it difficult for Kemp to ever be able to return to the grass. These personality concerns can be resolved with few problema, some of the time, but the Padres are also probably looking to make Kemp maximally comfortable, and there’s risk in upsetting him. The Padres traded for Kemp on purpose. It’s now up to them to figure out how to use him.

So, in theory, with a defensive rearrangement the Padres might project a handful or two of runs better. Yet, the gap isn’t very big, and the risk is that the Padres upset one of their biggest-ever investments in the first year of his tenure. Maybe they could take care of that. Maybe they’d see to it that Kemp would be fine. It just seems like it comes down to a coin flip. There’s a little bit of negative value in asking Kemp to do something I’m sure he doesn’t want to do. Would it make sense for the Padres to rearrange, putting Kemp at first base? There’s a good argument for it. There’s a just about equally good argument against it. Which suggests there’s minimal advantage either way. All that work to get here. The Padres are about as optimized as they can be.





Jeff made Lookout Landing a thing, but he does not still write there about the Mariners. He does write here, sometimes about the Mariners, but usually not.

38 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
PWR
11 years ago

could also consider the difference in trade value for Alonso vs Maybin and/or Venable??

Richie
11 years ago
Reply to  PWR

Dunno, my arithmetical understanding is that pretty much 0=0=0

Owen S
11 years ago

I’m trying to think of how to convincingly encourage Kemp to switch positions. Perhaps a montage of his fielding blunders over the past several years with “Moonlight Sonata” playing in the background.

matt w
11 years ago
Reply to  Owen S
Jim S.
11 years ago

As a TB fan, I can tell you that Myers — a converted catcher — would be far worse in center field than you project. In fact, I cannot imagine the Padres traded for him with that position in mind. All these bloggers who assume Myers would play center simply haven’t seen him play very much.

BaseballGuy
11 years ago
Reply to  Jim S.

The Padres have said explicitly — iirc — that they intend to play Myers in CF. And yeah, I think it’s dumb too. But then again, the only move the Padres have made that I really liked was getting Upton. And Shields.

David
11 years ago
Reply to  BaseballGuy

Getting Middlebrooks for Hanigan is hard to dislike.

matt w
11 years ago
Reply to  David

Not that hard.

Hurtlocker
11 years ago

If upton, kemp and myers don’t hit, the fielding issues will the be the least of the Padres problems.

Eminor3rd
11 years ago

How about platooning Quentin/Alonso at first?

David
11 years ago
Reply to  Eminor3rd

I’m unclear why a move to 1B would be helpful for the health of outfielders with bad knees and legs. There’s a ton more lateral movement, cutting and start-and-stop running on the infield. All things that are likely to be problems for Quentin.
(Recognize you may only be suggesting it as a way to maximize value from a stranded asset, but in SD fan circles, this idea has been kicking around a fair amount.)

Richie
11 years ago
Reply to  David

Yeah, people say ‘defense at 1st base is important!’ but also figure baseball’s biggest lugs can yet learn it with a whole month of spring training practice.

Richie
11 years ago
Reply to  Richie

Bill James noted this way back in the 80s.

Tanned Tom
11 years ago
Reply to  David

Maybe because old OFs who can still hit and have bad knees all seem to wind up there. Musial, Mantle, Stargell, et al.

Economics
11 years ago

Upton is leaving almost certainly after the 2015 season so they will be short a starting outfielder. Seems like it comes down to preferences of the team and of Kemp, as well as long term health considerations for Kemp.

Kevin B.
11 years ago
Reply to  Economics

The plan is to use one of their top 2 corner OF prospects (2/4 of their top prospects) in Hunter Renfroe and/or Rymer Liriano.

scout finch
11 years ago

Shortstop seems to be the biggest deficit on the Padres.

any chance of a Myers / Profar swap?

BMarkham
11 years ago
Reply to  scout finch

Bingo. The Padres are 28th at projected WAR from SS, in front of just the Marlins and Phillies. The Padres may be optimized from a CF/RF/1B perspective, but what they should be concerned about is dealing from their OF depth for a SS. That also solves the biggest problem with their current roster configuration, Wil Myers playing out of position.

vivalajeter
11 years ago

It’s probably best to leave things as they are, and re-evaluate next year. Maybe Myers shows that he’s not awful in CF. Or with Upton gone after the season, they’ll free up a corner for Myers to go to. Given the personality issues with Kemp, I just don’t see how anything good can come from asking him to move positions. There’s a lot of positivity surrounding the Padres, and the last thing you want to do is have things turn sour right when Spring Training starts.

On a separate note, I don’t know that positional adjustments really work the way that it’s laid out in the article (and given the qualifiers, I realize that Jeff probably feels the same way). As an example, if you swapped Elvis Andrus and Prince Fielder, wouldn’t the positional adjustments say that the net effect is 0? The reality is that the Rangers would be giving up a ton of runs by putting Andrus at 1B and Fielder at SS.

Richie
11 years ago
Reply to  vivalajeter

Yeah, the issue is ‘how would Kemp actually play at first base?’ (hasn’t taken a ground ball since PeeWee league, probably awfully) Those adjustments are for the purpose of comparing a (legitimate) first baseman’s value to a (legitimate) rightfielder’s value. They actually shouldn’t be applied to forecasting position switch results.

Richie
11 years ago
Reply to  vivalajeter

‘Yeah’ also for leaving things as they are for this 1 year. Between injuries, rest and defensive replacementing Venable/Maybin/whomever will still get their fair share of PT out in center field. The 70s Dodgers had awful defensive infields (Lasorda actually made a habit of punting defense; hmm, like that metaphor), while still winning a whole lot of games by being strong enough elsewhere. Clearly the Pods’ best option here, too.

Gabriel
11 years ago

What about injury risk for Kemp at first versus right field? I’m not sure which position is safer and perhaps the difference is negligible, but it seems like something worth exploring in the case of an injury-prone player whose strength is with the bat.

Timbooya
11 years ago

I expect spring training to be the testing ground of these and many types of defensive arrangements.

Dannyboy
11 years ago

Actually this could affect their offense quite a bit. One thing people don’t realize is that when a player switches to a new position, especially one they haven’t played often it can mess with them at the plate. The player will focus too much on fielding the new position and offense will suffer. Not every player can transition from position to position without a loss of offense, that takes a special player. Players are just more comfortable at their “home.” To say they don’t hit differently elsewhere is just incorrect. I sure wouldn’t move so many players on that team.

ms green
11 years ago
Reply to  Dannyboy

You watch the Pads much? We LOVE switching positions around. I can totally see Kemp playing some 1st in ST. Buddy switches players around as often as Cromartie makes children w/different women

Ted Brogan
11 years ago
Reply to  ms green

Don’t forget that Alexi Amarista will likely be playing CF every other day because Buddy loves playing the Little Ninja in the outfield…

Baltar
11 years ago
Reply to  Dannyboy

Three of the players involved are not getting moved in this scenario; only Kemp is being moved. Myers is being left in his current position instead of being moved.
You have the advantage of two guys who are CF playing CF, one RF playing RF, and one RF playing 1B.
CF would be defended far better, RF would be defended far better and 1B (the least important defensive position)would be defended far worse.
You also gain a pretty good pinch hitter who could also be the defensive replacement at 1B.
This is obviously the right move and who cares whether Kemp likes it or not.

Stank Asten
11 years ago

I don’t know where Kemp gets his reputation for being difficult to work with. He came up playing corner outfield then until the injury in 2013, he was an adequate CF and it would have been asinine to ask him to switch. Then in 2014 he switched to LF then to RF. Facts suggest one thing, fan comments suggest another. I’m going to go with the facts.

vivalajeter
11 years ago
Reply to  Stank Asten

If you treat your opinion as fact, then of course you’re going to go with the facts. But most people don’t consider it a fact that he was an adequate CF until 2013. According to DRS, he gave up 37 (!) runs in CF in 2010. UZR says he gave up 26 runs. Either way, that’s horrible. His UZR/150 over the next 3 seasons wasn’t as bad, but it was still about -5, -13, -35. Aside from 2011, I wouldn’t say he was adequate in the field.

Stank Asten
11 years ago
Reply to  vivalajeter

Maybe because most people cherrypick the data to fit the narrative they want like you do. Kemp’s UZR in 2008 was -1.2. 2009, 3.2. 2011, -4.8. 2012, he was -9.0, but he was also an MVP-calibre player. Tell me, aside from 2010, when was he not adequate in the field that you would ask him to move off center?

vivalajeter
11 years ago
Reply to  Stank Asten

What was cherrypicked? I used UZR/150 instead of UZR because he only played a partial season in 2012. It’s misleading to just look at the runs he gave up that year, with realizing that he barely played 100 games.

Your post implied that he was adequate until 2013. Sure, he was solid in 2009, but I was showing that I don’t consider him to be adequate in 2010, 2012 or 2013.

Among the 20 qualifying CF in 2012, his UZR/150 ranked 18th, ahead of only Fowler and Granderson. Looking at the entire time period from 2009-2012, his UZR/150 was 14th out of 15 qualifiers (again, ahead of Fowler). Tell me, aside from his below-average-but-not-awful 2011, when was he adequate in the field after 2009?

Stank Asten
11 years ago
Reply to  Stank Asten

Let me see, you are asking when was he adequate between 2010 and 2012, when he got injured, excluding 2011?

vivalajeter
11 years ago
Reply to  Stank Asten

Let’s see, you’re suggesting it’s a fact that he was an adequate defensive CF until 2013, even though he was the 2nd worst (by UZR/150) among all qualifiers in the 4 years leading up to 2013?

carterMember since 2020
11 years ago

Put Kemp at short. Bam.

Emcee Peepants
11 years ago

They could get creative and have a Kemp/Alonso platoon at 1B since Alonso has a pretty pronounced platoon split (328/112 wOBA/wRC+ vs. 290/86) and play Kemp in the OF the rest of the time. Venable could take Kemp’s OF place against lefties since he hits lefties about as well as Alonso for his career (and better recently) and would provide superior defense to Kemp. Assuming Kemp is okay at 1B in a smaller sample, this could conceivably provide a larger net gain (which I am too lazy to try to calculate). (Disclaimer – I can’t see this ever happening in real life_

ms green
11 years ago
Reply to  Emcee Peepants

That’s the way Buddy manages. It’ll happen similar to your theory

Will
11 years ago

This isn’t even the most obvious position move they should make: move Gyorko to 3rd (where he spent most or all of his time in the minors), and get defense up th e middle via free agency. I know Middlebrooks is there now, I’m talking long term.

Kirk
11 years ago

I don’t see this happening considering that JUp is a FA this year. I think they get through the season with this setup.

But I think a different positional change could be on the menu. Norris by most accounts is an awful defensive catcher. I can see him moving into a platoon or simply taking over at 1B. Alonso might be good defensively at 1B but he hits like a middle infielder. I could also seeing Quentin getting time there. That man can hit if he’s not on the DL.