Red Sox Acquire Garrett Crochet in Winter Meetings Blockbuster

“Hey, they won’t have to say ‘we tried’ this time.” I can’t attribute that quote to anyone in particular, but the Winter Meetings were abuzz with variations on a theme. After missing out on Juan Soto and Max Fried earlier in the week, the Boston Red Sox switched gears from free agency to the trade market and found their star. In a blockbuster deal, they’re acquiring Garrett Crochet from the Chicago White Sox in exchange for Kyle Teel, Braden Montgomery, Chase Meidroth, and Wikelman Gonzalez, as Julian McWilliams of the Boston Globe first reported.
This is the biggest trade of the offseason, and it’ll almost surely still occupy that position when next season rolls around. Pitchers like Crochet don’t hit the market very often. He blew the doors off the league in his first year of starting, pairing premium velocity with two excellent secondaries. He threw 146 innings, struck out more than 200 batters, and barely walked anyone while doing so. His strikeout stuff, exploding fastball, and lanky lefty frame call to mind Chris Sale, another Sox-to-Sox trade piece, and with the White Sox in the middle of a gut-renovation rebuild, he was always likely to get traded. The only questions were who for, and which team was most interested in adding him to their rotation.
We’ll cover the ins and outs of the prospects included in the deal in a separate post. Broadly speaking, though, the White Sox got a little bit of everything in their return. Teel is a Top 100 catching prospect approaching major league readiness with impressive speed. Montgomery is a high-risk, high-reward outfield prospect, the 12th pick of the 2024 draft. Gonzalez has mouth watering stuff that took a step back this year, and a sky-high walk rate to match. Meidroth is an on-base genius with questionable power and an uncertain defensive future. The White Sox have so many needs that they don’t have to be choosy about filling particular holes or looking for particular profiles. They just need talent. This return fits well with that best player available mentality.
It’s a different story in Boston. The Red Sox rotation was better than expected in 2024, but it wore down meaningfully throughout the year. Their much-documented new approach – fewer fastballs and more secondaries, basically – coaxed several better-than-expected seasons out of their existing starters, but the league seemed to catch up to the new plan in the second half. Between that regression, some injuries, and Nick Pivetta’s departure in free agency, the Sox didn’t have sufficient horsepower to go toe-to-toe with the best of the AL East.
Crochet changes that. He has best-pitcher-in-baseball upside. He has a late-inning reliever’s fastball, a hard cutter reminiscent of seeing Jacob deGrom’s slider in a mirror, and a nasty sweeping slider that seems to take a sharp right turn just in front of the plate. When he’s cooking, Crochet can slice a lineup apart effortlessly. When teams talk about wanting to build a playoff-ready rotation, Crochet is basically what they’re imagining in the no. 1 spot.
Does he come with some risk? Well, yeah. He hadn’t started a game in the pros before 2024, and the White Sox accordingly treated him with kid gloves in the second half. He didn’t throw a single pitch in the fifth inning after June 30. I would have done the same thing if I were them, to be clear – even in college, Crochet never topped 65 innings in a season, so this year’s 146 was a career high by a mile even with the throttled-down second half. But there’s plenty of uncertainty around his workload, and that’s nothing new.
Crochet went straight from the draft to the majors, and only partially because of the cancelation of the 2020 minor league season. He mixed starting and relieving at the University of Tennessee, and the 2020 White Sox were looking to fortify their pitching staff for the playoffs, so they prioritized getting something out of Crochet right away rather than building him up as a starter. He was so immediately electric that they stuck with that plan in 2021, and he was dominant again. Then he tore his UCL before the 2022 season and missed most of the next two years recovering.
That unique usage history – he’d thrown only 85.1 innings as a professional before last season – makes for some huge error bars around his projected future. He’s been a traditional starter for three months in the past five years, but he was the best pitcher in baseball for those three months, racking up 3.7 WAR in 101.1 innings. Extrapolate that out to a 180-inning workload, even with a little bit of run-prevention regression baked in, and he’s a perennial Cy Young contender. But as my high school statistics teacher taught me, forecasting out of sample is risky business, and we just don’t know how Crochet’s body will hold up to the rigors of those 180 innings.
The Red Sox will do everything they can to limit that risk. They’ll find him extra rest days, sometimes through the use of a six-man rotation and sometimes merely by using off days to space out his starts. Unlike their Sox counterparts in Chicago, they’re hoping to use Crochet in October, too, so starting slow and building up seems like the best path forward. You can look at late-career Sale, Tyler Glasnow, and maybe Cy Young-era Corbin Burnes for workload analogs. Major league teams haven’t solved pitching injuries by any stretch of the imagination, but they’re good at getting important innings out of dominant starters, even when the starters can’t produce gargantuan innings totals.
This trade makes the Red Sox better in 2025, and that’s just the beginning. Crochet is under team control for two years, and it would behoove Boston to get the extension gears turning immediately. Crochet notably told teams he wouldn’t pitch in the 2024 playoffs (if traded — the White Sox were never close to playoff contention) without a contract extension, a reasonable request given his ballooning workload and the win-today mindset the playoffs bring out.
But that’s not why I’d be looking to extend him if I were Boston. Presumably, we’ll have a lot more information about Crochet’s long-term prospects by the end of this season, but it’s hardly a given that things will go swimmingly. He could get hurt. He could lose velocity or stuff as he builds up his innings count. But things could go the other way, too. Maybe he’ll continue to hone his command and develop a better offspeed pitch. The range of outcomes here is enormous, which means his future earnings have huge variance too.
Thanks to his surgery-related absence, Crochet made nearly the league minimum in his first year of arbitration ($800,000). He’s projected to earn $2.9 million in arbitration this year thanks to the path-dependent nature of the system. That will put his career earnings around $10 million, with roughly half of that coming from his draft signing bonus. That’s a notably low amount for a Cy Young candidate rapidly heading towards free agency. Signing an extension that sets him up for life financially is clearly important to him, and this winter feels like the best time for him to do it.
It’s also the best time for Boston to engage in these talks. Teams are better positioned to take on that kind of risk. To simplify, let’s say that Crochet is either going to make $10 million or $250 million from 2026 through 2032, earnings that reflect a range of outcomes spanning from injuries that persist for an unfairly long time all the way to a big contract in free agency. Let’s further say that the good outcome is 75% likely for the sake of some back-of-the-envelope math. Crochet’s expected earnings are $190 million, but 25% of the time, he makes way less than that. The Sox could offer him, say, $160 million for those seven years and make everyone happy (the total deal would then be eight years and $163 million, accounting for this year’s arbitration estimate). They get a discount to expected value. Crochet essentially gets insurance – no matter what happens, he ends up with lifetime earnings over $100 million, generational wealth. Everyone wins.
The math won’t work out this way next winter. By then, there will be much less uncertainty. An extension won’t make as much sense for anyone, no matter the outcome. If Crochet is great, he’ll be less interested in insurance. If he’s bad or gets hurt, it’ll be too late to hedge. This is the first time in his life that Crochet has the chance to get a career-making contract. It’s also the best time.
Boston has similar incentives to get a deal done this winter. There’s a reasonable chance that Crochet ends up as the kind of starting pitcher who sets salary records. He’s going to reach free agency before his age-28 season, and if he’s healthy for the next two years, he could easily be the best pitcher in baseball when he hits the market. That’s the kind of résumé that gets teams starry-eyed, the kind that comes with contracts the Red Sox have historically eschewed. By signing him to an extension now, they can avoid that possible disaster.
The downside risk is far more manageable for a team with Boston’s resources. The team has run payrolls in the $180 million to $250 million range for years, and would have no problem fitting a contract with an average annual value around $20 million into that. In the worst case scenario, that’s no fun for anyone, but $20 million in dead money wouldn’t prevent the Red Sox from contending by any stretch of the imagination.
I asked Dan Szymborski for a ZiPS projection of the next seven years to get a sense of the central case for Crochet’s contract. The model is skeptical of his innings loads but is quite optimistic about his talent level. It thinks that Crochet will average more than three wins a year without ever building up to more than five innings a start:
| Year | W | L | ERA | G | GS | IP | H | ER | HR | BB | SO | ERA+ | WAR |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2025 | 12 | 6 | 2.93 | 29 | 29 | 135.0 | 113 | 44 | 11 | 43 | 169 | 143 | 3.5 |
| 2026 | 12 | 6 | 3.03 | 29 | 29 | 136.7 | 117 | 46 | 11 | 41 | 167 | 138 | 3.4 |
| 2027 | 12 | 6 | 3.14 | 29 | 29 | 140.3 | 124 | 49 | 12 | 41 | 166 | 133 | 3.3 |
| 2028 | 12 | 7 | 3.28 | 30 | 30 | 140.0 | 128 | 51 | 13 | 41 | 162 | 128 | 3.2 |
| 2029 | 11 | 8 | 3.36 | 30 | 30 | 139.3 | 130 | 52 | 13 | 40 | 156 | 125 | 3.0 |
| 2030 | 12 | 8 | 3.49 | 32 | 32 | 147.0 | 139 | 57 | 14 | 42 | 160 | 120 | 3.0 |
| 2031 | 12 | 8 | 3.56 | 32 | 32 | 146.7 | 140 | 58 | 14 | 43 | 157 | 118 | 2.9 |
Signing a guy who might be a generational pitcher to a contract extension is a great reason to trade for Crochet. Even better, the Red Sox didn’t have to deal any of their three buzziest prospects (Roman Anthony, Marcelo Mayer, and Kristian Campbell) to do it. This trade makes good use of their excellent farm system; when you have so many prospects that it’s tough to find playing time for all of them, consolidating all that potential value into a star is an excellent decision. This isn’t trading from the offense to improve your pitching; it’s going to be a huge net improvement for the club in the next two years, even ignoring a potential extension.
That doesn’t mean I dislike Chicago’s side of the deal, though. For comparison, consider this spring’s Dylan Cease trade. Both were four-player deals headlined by a top 100 prospect. Both sent away pitchers with two years of team control and tantalizing upside. I like Teal more than Drew Thorpe, the gem of the Cease return, and Montgomery is a great risk-reward play.
While the Red Sox didn’t have anywhere to play these fascinating prospects, the White Sox have opportunities for days. They’re trying to rebuild an entire roster from the ground up, and I like that they’re prioritizing depth in doing so. They should be leaning into volatility wherever possible, and not only did they get a bunch of prospects, they got guys with big error bars around their future value. I think that’s an excellent decision.
Does this deal change the balance of power in the AL East? I’m not sure. The Yankees and Blue Jays have both upgraded this week, and I expect both of them to make more moves too. The Orioles have a new owner and young players coming out their ears; they could be movers and shakers in the next month and they’ve averaged 96 wins over the past two years. The Rays are always in the mix. This trade doesn’t guarantee anything for Boston, and if they don’t do anything to improve their offense, they might struggle to score enough to make a run at the division title. But that doesn’t change the fact that this move makes them a lot better, and it even leaves them with the financial flexibility to make further improvements. I think that both teams did very well on this deal; Boston was a natural fit for Crochet, and the White Sox targeted the exact kind of return I’d be looking for in their shoes. Great work by everyone – now let’s get a contract extension done.
Ben is a writer at FanGraphs. He can be found on Bluesky @benclemens.
Nice to see, but hedge some bets and get another solid arm, Red Sox. This could go great or this could go Giolito.
Not likely, but you never know.
I agree; the Sox could use another arm, but it doesn’t necessarily have to be someone solid. I am thinking something like Verlander or Scherzer for a year. Won’t get a full season out of them, but could get a fair number of starts and a possible playoff-caliber arm if health allows. (And who else solid is out there aside from like Flaherty and of course Burnes at this point?)
I agree. Per inning Scherzer has never been below average. Verlander was pretty “bad” last year but only slightly worse than average. And average would be fine. Might be some upside with both too, coming into st healthy ish
Red Sox are the SF Giants of the East Coast – desperately trying to look like contenders without actually moving the needle. Hey, it sells season tickets!
Normally I would agree with you but Crochet’s stuff was pretty fantastic last year. If he is healthy—a big if—this definitely moves the needle.
They do definitely still need a middle infielder, however.
They have plenty of them… Street, Grissom, Campbell, and Mayer. The trick is figuring out which ones will work…
Assuming you mean Story, that list consists of:
1) The guy who’s hurt all the time
2) The guy who can’t play the middle infield
3) The guy who is projected to struggle in the middle infield and is still in the minors, and
4) The guy who is hurt all the time and is still in the minors
Even someone like Paul DeJong or Edmundo Sosa would work. Someone to keep Rafaela out of the infield. (They have David Hamilton at 2B if everything else really falls apart)
A combination of Grissom, Hamilton, and Romy are all fine at 2B. Story is injured a ton but you’ve got to start with him at SS. There’s some debate about Campbell’s defense but that will come more into focus as the season wears on. Mayer has been hurt too much but he’s still going to slot in at SS if (ok when) Story goes down.
Funnily enough, What they really need is a starting catcher.
After perusing the numbers again, I think I’m overrating Story. He’s still got good range but his arm is apparently been shot for a while now. He still has positive defensive numbers overall but he does seemed primed for a move to 2B.
I also may be overrating his bat. He had a 100 wRC+ is 94 games in 2022, then 48 wRC+ in 43 games in 2023, then back up to 101 in 26 games last year. I guess I had dismissed 2023 in my mind as him never quite getting back on track. Maybe that’s true but it’s just as likely that his true talent is around the 87 wRC+ he put up over the 3 year period.
Anything the team gets out of Story at this point is a bonus. But at least he can cover a couple positions if he’s healthy so at least he has that going for him.
Exactly. That is why Teel was a big price to pay; he stood a good chance of becoming the Red Sox starting catcher for the next 6 years. He does not look like a star, but a solid regular is something the Sox could have benefitted from.
A little weird to try and shade the two franchises with the most World Series titles in the last 20 years.
Just gonna throw this out there, but it’d be cool if fangraphs had a pay-per-article format. It’s great content here, but I’m only really interested in those that pertain to my particular team…just too busy with life to keep up on everything like I used to.
Just a thought.
I have a feeling this comment could compete for records
Is free really not good enough for you? You get plenty of free articles monthly to only read the ones about your team.
My dumb, fan-brain says “this feels light,” but then wonders why LAD, etc. didn’t want to beat it, so I suppose I’m underselling the risk that he doesn’t pan out or gets hurt soon. Still, given the value of SP we’ve seen this offseason, I thought he’d fetch more.
At this time last year, Chicago had Edman, Crochet, Cease, and a still-“sky’s the limit!” Robert, Jr; FG has them with the 4th best farm system, but they’d better hope they can develop the talent.
The Dodgers definitely could have done this deal. Rushing is a similar prospect to Teel and Zyhir Hope is a similar prospect to Montgomery. But they are really not interested in trading Rushing, and when the Dodgers decide they want to keep a guy it takes a lot to change their mind. I know he’s a good prospect but unless they’re going to give Will Smith a lot of time off I don’t see a role for him.
The White Sox never had Edman, he was a Cardinal. They had Fedde, who you may be thinking of
Sorry, I was thinking of them trading Edman for Vargas via the Cardinals (but you are technically correct, the best kind of correct).
Rushing played a lot of OF at the end of last year in an attempt to start converting him, and so you can understand the reasoning, but I’d rather have Crochet than a converted catcher who might be a starting corner OF, esp if I’m making a run at a WS repeat and I can sign Teo to compliment Edman and Taylor/Pages/Outman/Conforto
The members of my fantasy team think the Red Sox overpaid. For me, the volatility of pitchers means this could go either way. But as Ben notes, Boston didn’t give up their best prospects. It does hurt losing Teel, and I wonder who Boston will pick up to at least split catching duties–who’s the best D-minded catcher out there? (Wong is a pretty poor catcher with uncertain offense)
The Red Sox just acquired MLB-ready Carlos Narvaez from the Yankees, so he’s probably the backup. Roughly average defensive catcher who has been a touch above league-average offensively in the minors.
“Developing the talent” has been the issue for them for decades. They haven’t.
Dodgers didn’t do it because they know they’re getting Sasaki
It feels heavy to me as a completely biased Red Sox fan. Crochet is great but having only 2 years of control plus his injury history brings down his value. They still got two top 100 prospects, an interesting arm, and a the next Wade Boggs (okay, maybe just a guy who’s good at getting on base). That feels like a decent haul.
Getz hasn’t made a good trade since taking over as GM and the White Sox in general rarely make good trades because of how poorly run they are… odds are Boston will win this deal.
I think I agree with Ben that this is a good move for the Red Sox and if they can buy out a few free agent years they would be wise to do so. The stuff is real, the performance is real, but Crochet should be terrified that he’s going to blow out his arm again. As should the Red Sox but they already gave up the prospects and they are much better positioned to assume the risk. They should be able to get a favorable deal.
I mostly think it’s good for the Red Sox because they have shown lately that they are really good at coaching up pitchers. If they can just keep Crochet healthy and not-tired they should be able to keep him at the level he showed this year.
Additionally I don’t think the Red Sox are going to miss any of the prospects except Kyle Teel. Losing him is probably a blow, since he is potentially the third best catching prospect behind Basallo and Salas, along with guys like Drake Baldwin, Dalton Rushing, and Moises Ballestreros. But they have a big outfield logjam already so even if Braden Montgomery is fantastic he wouldn’t get to show it, and the other guys aren’t elite prospects. I would have definitely liked this better for the Red Sox if they traded Rafaela instead of Teel but who knows if the White Sox even wanted that.
I’m not sure I understand why everyone thinks Crochet’s arm is a ticking time bomb. He had TJS. So have roughly 40% of the pitchers in MLB. He hasn’t missed time with multiple injuries. Yes, he hasn’t pitched a lot. Does that correlate with higher injury risk? If it does, Skenes is in trouble.
This is exactly what I’m curious about. Plenty of pitchers get TJS… Fried had TJS and just got 220 for his age 31+ seasons
Is there anything about GC that would warrant further concern than any other pitcher who has had TJS in their past?
Throwing fast
Throwing hard, huge workload jump as mentioned in the article, and the length of time it took for his TJ recovery was on the long end, which is typically not a great thing.
Granted, I still think this is overblown.
I realize that every pitcher should be considered a ticking time bomb at this point but Crochet has nearly every red flag. He throws very hard, hasn’t had a track record of throwing a lot since he graduated from high school, and has an injury history anyway. No matter where you turn there is something to worry about.
Also didn’t he have shoulder issues in 2023? More than TJS, that would worry me.
Ehhh… the opposite argument is that he doesn’t have a ton of innings on his arm, is young, has a starters build, and already has his TJS
I mean, every pitcher is a risk. Is crochet any more of a risk than Fried or Snell? I would say not
The TJS was not the only issue.
In 2023, Skenes, at age 21, Skenes led LSU in IP with 122.2; then pitched 6.2 IP in the minors. In 2024, at age 22, Skenes pitched 160.1 IP between the minors and majors. Crochet never topped 65 IP in college. In his pro career, he’s pitched 6.1, 54.1, 0, 25, and 146.
You can’t pretend that Crochet is anything like Skenes or other young pitchers who are handled with reasonable caution. If he wasn’t a risk, he would have cost a ton more. Imagine the package for 2 years of Skenes.
100%. And this is why the White Sox had to move him. His value may never be this high again if he blows out.
I mean literally every pitcher, especially young pitcher is a risk.
I don’t really care about their previous workload. more so I’m interested in how do you predict his workload going forward? There are many aspects to that’s including medicals, build, delivery, routine, etc that we don’t really have access to
Yes, so we can only go by what we do have access to, which is a history of limited availability due to arm/back/shoulder injuries. You can’t argue affirmatively for your point by saying “we just don’t really know”
He’s also had shoulder issues, which is more worrisome. That said, he has the stuff of a #1 starter and is cheap. So the rewards outweigh the risks IMO.
I think the return is light for the White Sox. Not getting a can’t miss top 10 overall prospect like Mayer or Anthony is pretty bad with SP prices this high and Crochet having so much surplus value.
Mm, I agree. Montgomery is understated in this writeup, though; Baseball of America and MLB Pipeline rank him as #54 and #59 in baseball, respectively. A switch-hitter with plus power and a plus-plus arm, and he made a crapload of contact in college. The upside is great, and the floor still looks like a player who can impact winning.
I think the White Sox may have valued Teel + Montgomery over Mayer. They have a lot of slots to fill to rebuild the team and Mayer is a bit of an injury concern. So maybe they were fine with one reliably healthy top 50 guy + one questionable health top 50 guy instead of an injury risk top 10 guy.
What do you think a package headlined by Mayer would be? Would it be just him? Him plus Gonzalez? More?
I think they could’ve and should’ve replaced Teel + Montgomery with Mayer and kept the other two prospects. I bet Boston still would’ve done it, and if they rejected then Chicago should’ve requested similar packages from one of the myriad other teams desperate for an SP who were in the mix.
I trust Crochet about as far as i can throw him but Sox needed to do something and this is probably the best something available.
Am I allowed to make a Crochet Trebuchet? I think I could throw him pretty far, if so
In this essay, I will …
Shocked the Red Sox didn’t have to give up anyone better than Teel. This package feels similar to what the Pirates got back when they traded Cole: quantity of talent over quality.
If I’m the white Sox, I’m not sure which I prefer but to Ben’s point the Red Sox strongly prefer this type of deal since it consolidates assets. I am a little surprised someone didn’t top this deal by offering a top-50 prospect in a package or simply adding more 40/40+ players. If I’m a contending team with decent farm system depth I make this trade in a heartbeat.
I think there are not a lot of FV60s in the game right now and maybe not FV55s either. You could make a pretty strong case that Teel is a Top 50 prospect, maybe even Top 30. Not because he fits the profile of a FV55 but because the top is shallow right now.
If I were the Orioles I definitely would be offering Coby Mayo and / or Kjerstad but maybe the White Sox are down on one or both of them. I don’t think any team needed Crochet more than the Orioles.
Crochet didn’t fit the Orioles at all. They needed Burnes’ reliability and consistency, neither of which apply to Crochet. The absolute last thing Baltimore needed was yet another injured starting pitcher.
Burnes is in line for a $300M deal so I think that ship has sailed. Crochet offers upside, the kind of guy who can theoretically go toe-to-toe with a top starter in Game 1 of a short series. He is risky too, but those are usually the reasons guys like him are available.
I suppose they could just aim for a couple #3 type starters if they are concerned about availability, maybe Luis Castillo and Freddy Peralta and other pitchers in that bucket are available. But the most likely scenario is that they’re going to prospect-hug and not get anyone.
The Orioles already have that in Grayson Rodriguez and Kyle Bradish. Remember, they only gave up three runs over eighteen innings against the Royals. What they need is what Burnes gave them, a reliable source of quality innings every fifth day for an entire season. Winning the division and avoiding the wild card round entirely is the goal. While every pitcher has some inherent injury risk, Crochet’s risk is much higher than most,. and the O’s have already had too many pitching injuries to spend valuable prospects on another one.
This same lazy, ignorant comment keeps getting parroted as if the Orioles didn’t acquire the best available starting pitcher last winter by giving up a prospect who became one of the last season’s most productive rookies. Joey Ortiz, who would have been a massive upgrade for Baltimore at second base last season, ended up being Milwaukee’s fourth most valuable player and is under their control for another five seasons.
Mike Elias already has and will continue to trade prospects, but it has to be the right deal for the organization. Crochet isn’t what the Orioles needed.
That’s one heck of an endorsement of Rodriguez. Not seeing it. Bradish maybe but he has to stay healthy. Crochet, for all his problems, has Bradish-level results and is a whole lot healthier.
Wouldn’t think that holding the team starting Yuli Gurriel at first base in the playoffs to three runs in two games is terribly predictive either. And that was with Burnes.
I get that you don’t like Crochet but the pitcher you are describing is not likely available. You’re describing Corbin Burnes (out of price range), Logan Gilbert or George Kirby (would require an insane prospect haul, it would rip out the entire O’s system), Aaron Nola or Zack Wheeler (not going anywhere), Logan Webb (not going anywhere), Seth Lugo or Cole Ragans (not going anywhere)…I guess Sean Manaea is available. He threw for a lot of innings, is average enough, and wouldn’t cost $300M or the Orioles’ top 4 prospects. If you want to pay $100M+ for him, I guess that’s your answer. Or they could trade some of those excellent prospects for a year of Dylan Cease.
Grayson was the #6 overall prospect for Baseball America and #17 overall for FanGraphs. He has been good in both of his first two seasons, albeit both abbreviated by injuries, and he still has the potential for more. He throws nearly as hard as Crochet (0.4 mph slower) and he has one of the best change ups in the Major Leagues by pitch value.
Kyle’s Tommy John is obviously two years more recent, but Crochet has pitched far less innings over the last three seasons than Rodriguez or Bradish.
The Kansas City Royals were above the league average in runs scored during the 2024 season.
Elias has been trying to trade with Seattle for two years. If it never happens, so be it, but making a move just to make a move for a player who doesn’t fit what you need would be a terrible decision. Crochet is a massive risk, and after the moves Elias has already made, there actually isn’t that much prospect capital left in the minors for the O’s.
It’s just bizarre for you to accuse Elias of “prospect hugging” when he made two trades for starting pitchers in the last year. If Burnes walks then it obviously didn’t work out, but he already took the chance you claim that he doesn’t.
Elias gets accused of prospect hugging because he doesn’t like trading prospects. He kind of said so himself, that the buyers usually give up more value than they get. And you can see that in the Corbin Burnes trade, but failing to trade Joey Ortiz for a pitcher would have been pathological-level prospect hugging. I don’t think you can give a lot of credit for
As of now, they don’t have room for everyone at their natural positions. I suppose Mayo might not be a third baseman so maybe he plays first and they ditch Mountcastle, and O’Neill gets hurt enough that Kjerstad will still get to play a lot, and maybe they can slow-walk Basallo to let him develop at catcher to replace Adley…but this team is full. If Dylan Beavers lights up the minors this year, or if Bradfield shows literally any power at all, they are just going to sit in the minors. And right now Dean Kremer is slated to be the #3 starter. Gonna have to do something, either with money or prospects, to make that work.
No one but Dave Dombrowski likes trading prospects. The reality is that Mike Elias has traded prospects, and has done so repeatedly. You completely forgot that he had traded for Burnes, otherwise you would not have made the statement you did.
Go back and look at what you wrote: “the most likely scenario is that they’re going to prospect-hug and not get anyone.“
How does that statement make any sense at all if you remembered that Elias traded for Corbin Burnes? He also traded prospects for Trevor Rogers. The idea that Mike Elias will “not get anyone” is completely unfounded based on his recent track record.
You said something wrong, and unfortunately you’re one of those people who would rather make ridiculous excuses, like pretending that Joey Ortiz somehow doesn’t count, than just admit that you said something wrong.
There is no truth to this whatsoever. They have four viable outfielders on the roster: Cowser, Mullins, O’Neill, and Kjerstad. No one is blocked there, as you need four at absolute minimum to cover those spots. Then you have Mountcastle and O’Hearn splitting time at first and Henderson as the every day shortstop. That leaves Holliday, Westburg, and Mayo to cover second, third, and DH. Who is blocked? Who do they not have room for? Please explain that to me.
Bradfield is going to replace Mullins after next season. He’s only had 120 plate appearances above A ball. Beavers is depth in case of an injury to someone at the major league level.
Which is precisely why the Orioles need to sign someone who you expect to give them 150+ innings. Garrett Crochet is not that guy.
Man you have crazy tunnel vision. You are still hung up on something I made an off-hand comment on like 7 comments ago! Fine, we will agree to disagree. I think Elias is too conservative with trading prospects for real MLB pitching based on his track record, you believe that a couple of trades means he isn’t. The stakes of this argument are rapidly diminishing.
You said: “I don’t think any team needed Crochet more than the Orioles.“
I showed that they already have talented young arms. What they actually need is a workhorse like Burnes.
Then you said: “the most likely scenario is that they’re going to prospect-hug and not get anyone.“
I pointed out that Elias traded prospects for two starting pitchers within the last year.
Then you said: “That’s one heck of an endorsement of Rodriguez. Not seeing it.”
I pointed out that Grayson Rodriguez was very highly ranked as a pitching prospect and has posted two good seasons already. In fact, if the Orioles had been willing to trade Rodriguez for Crochet, the White Sox would have done that in a heartbeat.
You then said: “failing to trade Joey Ortiz for a pitcher would have been pathological-level prospect hugging. I don’t think you can give a lot of credit for (that).”
So, because you’re embarrassed that you forgot about the Burnes trade, you’re acting like Joey Ortiz was some meaningless talent, when in reality he was the fourth best player on the Brewers in 2024.
You also said: “As of now, they don’t have room for everyone at their natural positions.”
I proved that wrong as well, going through the roster position by position to show that they absolutely do have room for everyone at their natural positions.
Look, you obviously know nothing about the Orioles, which would be completely fine if you weren’t trying to argue with a lifelong Orioles fan. If you can’t admit that you were proven wrong multiple times, at least stop arguing.
tl dr
Great counterpoint, I hadn’t realized how thin the top of the prospect pool is at the moment. Agreed though about the Orioles.
I mean, Fangraphs does rank Teel as a top 50 prospect, Montgomery as a 45+, Wikelman as a 40+ and Meidroth as a 40.
You have to get a 55 FV prospect in this deal if you’re Chris Getz.
I think you might be underrating the risk Crochet presents. IMO this is not that far off from an even deal…two FV50s plus an FV40+ or two is about the going rate for a pitcher like this.
For a guy who has one good year as a starter, a checkered injury past, and only two years of control? They did fine. For what it’s worth, FG looks to be lower on Montgomery than the industry.
They seem to be lower on Montgomery than others are. BA and Pipeline both had him in the top 100.
Keith Law and MLB Pipeline are higher on both, with Teel to 25 and Montgomery top 50. Seems like a good haul for a risky pitcher that they had to sell high on. That’s not to say that I don’t like the deal for Boston. The rewards are a cheap #1 pitcher who can be obtained without giving up their top 3 guys.
If you look at other possible destinations, the Red Sox are really the one of the only ones who could afford a package of this level of talent without crippling the top of their system.
I like this deal for the Red Sox. Getting Crochet without giving up any of their top 3 prospects is a win. While I don’t love giving up Teel, you’re going to have to give up some real value to get a player like Crochet. To me, Teel looks like a high floor, low ceiling prospect. One that could definitely be a valuable major leaguer but not a star. Montgomery’s upside is much higher but as likely a corner outfielder, he’s going to really need to hit to be a star. Wikelman is almost certainly going to be a reliever, possibly a very good one but, even then, he really needs to reign is his command to have a chance. Meidroth is likely a contact oriented, low power, utility infielder without a true position. All in all, a reasonable amount to give up for, what is hopefully a perennial Cy Young contender.
I understand the need to improve on offense, but everything points towards Anthony and Campbell breaking camp out of spring training w/Mayer on the way. There were a lot of games started by the Gonzales/Hamilton/Valdez/Grissoms and while I wouldn’t pencil in Story for 120 game, I would think pitching is still a priority. Enough of talking about going “full throttle” and being “one of the five teams” involved in a top FA. Sign Burnes. Sign Scott. Extend Crochet.
Hey now – you’re tryna hide the confidence that everyone should have, now that Henry’s dumped that silly fella who traded a surefire stud like Yoan Moncada for an oft-injured former reliever like Sale.
Breslow did the opposite – he gave Atlanta Chris Sale for a prospect without the popup tracking skill to play 1b or the grounder fielding skill to play CF.
I was dreaming on him being the Ace of the nationals, but I never really expected it. Good for Boston and CWS.
Crochet really doesn’t “two excellent secondaries.” His slider isn’t “nasty,” it’s awful, ranking as one of the worst in 2024 by value per pitch. One of the reasons Garrett broke out was that he went from throwing it 29.5% of the time to only 9.8% of the time.
His two big question marks are workload and the lack of any reliable pitch besides his four seam. That fastball is phenomenal, but not many starters have maintained prolonged success with that alone. Maybe the Red Sox can tweak something to get his slider up to mediocre, but the complete lack of secondaries is exactly why I didn’t want the Orioles to trade for him.
Looks like the ingredients are there, the pitch models love his slider. But you are right, the results on the pitch are not. Something to put a pin on and revisit later is if he’s doing anything different with his slider in 2025.
I have no questions about his performance. 5 WAR pitcher last year w incredible k rates and projections at 5 WAR this year.
Also, his sweeper gets incredible movement and had a ~45 % whiff rate. Elite pitch potential
His changue and cutter both get plenty of whiffs too. His changup had great results with a ~.200 xWOBA
Maybe he’s tipping his secondaries. Whatever the cause, they have not been good in actual games, regardless of what the models say about how they should perform.
The movement, whiffs, and expected numbers is more predicative of the stuff. Results could be nothing more than poor defense/small sample
His change in particular has actually had great results with a .200 xWOBA
The “x” in xWOBA stands for “expected.” It’s a modeling stat that tells you what they think a pitch should have done. In terms of actual results, Crochet’s change up had negative value each of the last two seasons, although it was positive the two before that.
Resident Red Sox fan here and I love the trade. I am not alone. R.A. Anderson, a knowledgeable writer, now with CBS and with Baseball Prospectus on his resume gave the Red Sox an “A”. Risk, of course, but there are risks with every pitcher who ever climbed the bump. This is a young man, a very big young man, and if his reattached arm stays attached he should be able to handle a large work load. If that is the case then this is akin to seeing Chris Sale walk into the clubhouse. I think I am allowed a victory lap for saying the Red Sox were better off by not signing Soto or O’Neill. That money will be of much greater value if they can extend Crochet which is the icing on the cake. The price was below what I thought it would take. Teel may be a solid catcher. Montgomery is not a lottery ticket but more like a stack of lottery tickets giving him a better chance of succeeding than the usual player who hasn’t played a professional game. Meidroth and Gonzalez may provide depth at the major league level and are of more value to the White Sox than the Red Sox. My winter will be complete if they can sign Bregman or trade for Arenado and move Devers to 1st will do in a pinch. The cherry on top would be Casas to Seattle for Kirby.
Mariners beat writer, Adam Jude already reported that the Mariners rejected a Casa for one of the their young aces proposal.
Fellow fan here. I would rather see them trade Casas for Logan Gilbert. More K’s may be cheaper due to fewer years of control. Even if it’s Casas and Rafaela
lol
Gilbert is worth more than that…
I would rather see them resign Dalbec and trade him for Gilbert. However, reality tends to get in the way of such things. 🙂
Interesting move. I understand some of the risk of Crochet but at the end of the day guys with his stuff, his performance, at his age (25) are never available
The last was Yamamoto who signed for 300mil. Pretty much everyone else is either much older, or not as proven.
He was, per rate basis, a top 5 pitcher in baseball. If the redsox can get an extension done, that feels like a great building block for the future for them. Crochet, Houck, Bello has nice long term upside as a 1-3 in the rotation.
I think Montgomery could be excellent and could sting the most. Always thought Teel was overrated given his lack of carrying tool, he feels more like an average regular than an impact guy imo
[omitted]
Well I love the move. It’s bold and they picked up a guy with electric stuff who is very young and hopefully extendable. The last can’t miss catcher I can think of was Matt Wieters(too long ago for you youngsters? He was touted as the next Bench. There were memes about how the earth revolved around him, etc(it was very funny for a long time that BP totally whiffed on the projections, though he did have 2 really good years), how about Joey Bart? The list goes on. Sure, every once in awhile you get burned on Bagwell trade, but you’ve got to make these trades when you can.
Adley Rutschman is right here. And no one thinks Teel is that elite.
Don’t shovel dirt on Bart just yet he just put up a 121 wRC+ this past year and the Pirates gave up nothing for him.
There Is No Such Thing As A Catching Prospect
Way to go out on a limb there! Next you’ll tell me Jill Stein had no chance to win the presidency.
Orioles letting Crochet go to a division rival… why exactly?
Mike Elias is obviously an incredible drafter but he seems far too conservative to be a truly effective GM. When are they going to push the chips in? If they can’t win while they have Henderson they might miss their window
Baltimore is uninvolved in this transaction
They should have made this transaction instead of letting Crochet go to a division rival
Why do so many people keep making this same comment as if Elias hadn’t already traded for Corbin Burnes? Did you just forget that trade happened? They also traded prospects for Trevor Rogers, although I am not a fan of Rogers at all, so it remains to be seen if that ends up having any value.
The Orioles already have talented young pitching, what they need is the season-long consistency that Burnes gave them. Crochet isn’t that. He has major red flags both in terms of his workload and his repertoire. Mayo and Basallo are both going to be needed in the coming years, so there isn’t much excess talent left to trade. Baltimore needs to be spending in free agency, not trading even more prospects than they already have.
Good analysis. Fascinated by a projection that never goes much above 140 IP per year–and relatedly, doesn’t go above 3.5 WAR in any season. How we are defining the next generation of superstar pitchers.
In Crochet’s case, it makes sense. Before 2024, he had never pitched more than 65 innings in a season, which was his total as a sophomore at Tennessee.
As a Red Sox fan I feel like they gave up a lot and it especially hurts to lose Kyle Teel. BUT, they desperately need high end pitching and if they won’t open the checkbook for guys like Fried or Burnes then this is the only option. Of course that only becomes necessary because they haven’t developed a top starter in almost 20 years.
I am mildly surprised that the Red Sox and White Sox were able to match up on this. From the White Sox side, they already have Kyle Teel at home in Edgar Quero: a top 50ish catching prospect who just reached AAA last year.
From the Red Sox side, Teel made a lot of sense because he was a notch below Anthony, Mayer, and Campbell. However, he was the least replaceable of the group as well. At the Major League level this left the Sox with one somewhat viable catcher, Connor Wong. The FA market for catchers was thin to begin with and we’ve already seen Jansen, d’Arnaud, and others go off the board.
All of that makes me wonder if they would have been better off including Mayer instead of Teel, and perhaps leaving out Meidroth.
I have a lot of questions about Mayer’s ability to stay healthy. But if he’s healthy he’s definitely a better prospect than Teel. To me this is a statement by the Red Sox that they aren’t that worried about Mayer’s recurring health woes.
As for Quero and Teel, I do wonder about that. But the reports at the deadline were that they were hoping the Dodgers would trade Dalton Rushing. So something is up here that we clearly aren’t aware of.
Mayer’s ability to stay healthy is definitely a question. But even with that concern, he seems to be a consensus top 10 or so ranking, and well above Teel.
Maybe Getz wants Quero and Teel to split time with each other between catching and DHing thereby eliminating the need for a typical, one-trick-pony DH.
Either that or one of them can be traded for a prospect or two.
If you are the White Sox, it’s like drafting. Take the best players available and worry about the MLB roster when the time comes. If you end up with two MLB-ready catchers, trade one. You’ll probably make out fine. And Mayer, even with health issues, is a consensus top 10 prospect. I just don’t see guys like that getting traded unless it’s a Soto-Padres type match.
I think it’d be incredibly dumb to willingly upgrade your offer from a 50 FV catching prospect to a 60 FV SS prospect just because you’d need to find a backup catcher if you traded the catching prospect.
How does this deal get done without Mayer or Campbell???
Because it includes two other excellent prospects.
If the Sox would’ve just done nothing the last two years, their rotation could be Cease, Crochet, Reynaldo, Fedde. What a bummer. Here’s hoping this prospect package returns better results than Moncada and Kopech for Sale.
Don’t forget the Red Sox threw in Basabe and Diaz. The similarity between the two deals is striking. Four prospects with almost no major league experience, only Moncada had played even one game of the four involved, for Sale and, in this case, none of the four has ever been on the 26 man active roster. At the time he was traded Moncada was a much higher rated prospect than any of the players who went to the White Sox in the Crochet trade.
That’s what I keep going back to. I think Sale had a somewhat higher trade value than Crochet at the time of the deal, but Moncada was the consensus #1 overall prospect in baseball, making the Sale package dramatically more valuable than the package the Red Sox gave up for Crochet.