Scouting the Prospects Acquired for Jameson Taillon
Sunday, the Pirates traded starter Jameson Taillon to the Yankees for a package of four prospects. Dan Szymborksi will provide in-depth analysis of the deal as it pertains to the Yankees soon, though I’ll note to start that with the return of Luis Severino and Domingo Germán and the additions of Corey Kluber and now Taillon, the Yankees rotation will be reliant on several high-risk, high-reward starters this season.
Of course, nobody likes trading away good big leaguers, especially those who the club and city care about for reasons beyond their on-field performance. Taillon has persevered through a lot, including testicular cancer and an August 2019 Tommy John, the second such surgery of his career. When he next steps on a big league mound, it will have been nearly two years since he last did so. That layoff (he has been throwing live BP to hitters since late last summer and has been throwing bullpens during the offseason) creates volatility that mirrors the added volatility of this particular prospect package. Taillon could be an anchor of the Yankees rotation next year or might be a shell of himself. Regardless of which he would have been in Pittsburgh, the Pirates are not ready to compete and so I think they did well to trade him for four good prospects today, acquiring upside but also mitigating risk by getting several players in return.
On to those prospects. The quartet heading back to Pittsburgh — righties Miguel Yajure (age 22) and Roansy Contreras (21), 21-year-old outfielder Canaan Smith-Njigba, and 18-year-old shortstop Maikol Escotto — is a pretty exciting.
Because the Yankees have a very deep farm system, constructed their alternate site roster with major league depth in mind, and did not have a Fall Instructional League in Florida, there are fewer new data- and video-based evaluations on their prospects this year than there are for other teams that had more prospects at the alt site and/or had scoutable instructs. So while Yajure was at the alt site and threw in a few big league games, Smith-Njigba, Contreras, and Escotto were not scouted in person last year, and Contreras did not generate pitch data. The Yankees did have some Fall/Winter activity in the Dominican Republic in which Escotto participated, but it wasn’t open to scouting. It appears Pittsburgh was willing to accept elevated risk here in exchange for a bigger package of quality prospects.
Let’s start with Yajure, who was a 45 FV prospect last offseason based largely on his polish and repertoire depth. In fact, he actually throws one more pitch than I had evaluated last year and deploys a five-pitch mix (fastball, cutter, changeup, curveball, slider) even though he’s barely 22. Yajure’s fastball rests in the 90-95 range with cut and carry, a velocity band he only began working in as he built strength during rehab from a 2017 Tommy John surgery. His best secondary pitch is his changeup, which Yajure did not have great feel for out of the bullpen during his brief 2020 big league debut, but was his best bat-missing weapon during his 2019 breakout. He also has a nasty-looking, 12-to-6 curveball that has serious bite and depth, but I’m not sure if big league hitters will be flummoxed by it since it comes out of his hand with such a big arc and might be easy to identify. The slider and cutter are fine, but rely on Yajure’s ability to execute them to his glove side consistently, and while he’s been able to do that in the minors, he just could not find release consistency during his big league outings.
I’m chalking up his initial major league struggles to age and relative inexperience coming out of the bullpen, and still have Yajure projected as a big league-ready, 1.5-ish WAR starter, though his name has been mentioned by front office folks as perhaps belonging among the 2-WAR arms that make up the very back of my Top 100, so he may sneak on there.
The rest of the acquired prospects were in the 40+ FV category last year, and will remain there because of the lack of new info available on them. It’s possible the Pirates were given pitch data from remote Contreras bullpen sessions thrown during the year, but it doesn’t sound like that’s the case based on my sourcing for this piece. Like Yajure, Contreras also displayed a little velocity bump in 2019 despite throwing more innings than ever before, and he also walked fewer batters. That year, Contreras worked 92-95 while flashing an above-average curveball and changeup. He’s in a similar No. 4 or 5 starter bucket, albeit a little further away from the big leagues than Yajure, hence the small gap in their FVs.
The barrel-chested Smith-Njigba has huge strength-driven power and a really great approach. He’s only 21 but his frame is maxed out and may be difficult for him to maintain into his mid-to-late-20s. His size creates some stiffness and imbalance during his swing, but Smith-Njigba is explosive, picks great pitches to swing at, and runs pretty well underway. I won’t go so far as to call him deceptively athletic but he does have a sibling with elite athleticism, underclass Ohio State wide receiver Jaxon Smith-Njigba.
While you can just watch Smith-Njigba swing and know he has big power, his exit velo data reinforces the visual evaluation in a big way. He averaged 91 mph off the bat in 2019 and hit just shy of 50% of balls in play at 95 mph or above. Both of those are comfortably plus if we’re mapping that data to the big league 20-80 scale. This data was generated at Low-A Charleston in 2019 where Smith-Njigba, despite being age-appropriate for that level, was more physically mature than most of the other players in the league. You could discount his Statcast-type production for this reason, but I think he has a shot to be a corner outfield regular based on his approach and power.
You could make a similar argument about Escotto, a really ripped infielder who hit a robust .315/.429/.552 in the 2019 DSL. Escotto isn’t maxed out like Smith-Njigba but he is stronger and more muscular than your typical DSL teenager and that physicality helped him generate one of the higher average exit velocities among teenagers in pro ball in 2019. He’ll likely be developed as a shortstop with Pittsburgh, which would have been more difficult for the Yankees to do because they have so many other same-aged players at the position.
Evaluating Escotto last year was pretty simple. Just as the domestic amateur side of the industry does during the high school showcase circuit, Escotto was identified as likely to remain at shortstop based on the feet, hands and actions he shows during infield drills. Fold in his BP and you can easily make apples-to-apples comparisons between him and domestic amateur infielders eligible for the draft, and have a pretty good idea of where Escotto fits in among them. Add the stats generated by Escotto in the DSL and the data I source and make available on The Board, and you get a clear idea that he has a chance to make a well-rounded offensive impact and that perhaps the visual eval should be rounded up based on the strength of the data. Escotto was on last year’s Picks to Click list but I can’t justify moving him onto the Top 100 with literally no new information beyond the fact that Pittsburgh clearly likes him also, so he’ll stay in the 40+ FV tier, which means the Pirates have added the equivalent of a second round high school shortstop to their system.
The Pirates have now added about 10 good prospects to their system this offseason across several avenues of acquisition (Rule 5 Draft, trades, international signings) and now have 26 prospects in their system who last year I graded as 40+ FV or above. By my current count, only Cleveland (27) has more.
Eric Longenhagen is from Catasauqua, PA and currently lives in Tempe, AZ. He spent four years working for the Phillies Triple-A affiliate, two with Baseball Info Solutions and two contributing to prospect coverage at ESPN.com. Previous work can also be found at Sports On Earth, CrashburnAlley and Prospect Insider.
shouldn’t be working on sundays, but you are the best in the business
Maybe working Sundays is exactly why he’s one of the best in the business
This was such a Yankees trade
Disagree. Cashman tries to win every trade, but here, he seems to have paid more for Taillon than SDP paid for Musgrove. Pirates really did a nice job of taking advantage of the Yankees’ 40-man roster overflow.
I don’t think he paid more than the Musgrove trade, but it is uncomfortably close.
On another note, this also suggests to me that distance to Rule 5 status / number of options is a really important part of prospect value and should be part of the valuation and on THE BOARD.
One other practical note: I love that it’s on rosterresource and THE BOARD is already an amazing resource but it should be pretty easy to pipe it in, right?
I’m not giving up on this until Eric presents a full article why distance to Rule 5 / options isn’t part of prospect valuation. Change my mind!
Rule 5 status / options remaining seems to affect current value rather than Future Value.
I take future value as anything past the current moment. Should FV be docked for players that will get called up soon (if not already) and use up a lot of their value in 2021? Even if one only wants FV to be some time starting at a later date, using up years of service/options causes a team to lose FV by losing control of a player earlier/spending on them earlier.
For position players, it likely isn’t a big deal except for catchers. Pitchers with options are very important as teams need significantly more pitchers than they can fit on a 26-man roster.
Following up on both Oddvark and Joe Joe: I would say that it hurts present value as much as future value, probably more–which does hurt their overall value. But only for certain types of prospects. There are a few different classes of prospects (probably more, but these are pretty common types). For guys like Yajure, it doesn’t matter. They’re probably ready.
It does matter for a little for guys like Luis Gil (Yankees) or Ronaldo Hernandez (Rays), who have already burned through an option year and haven’t played above A+. Guys like Tahnaj Thomas haven’t played above rookie ball and will be eligible next winter. You can wait on them because they’re talented, as long as you don’t have too many of them.
Where it matters the most are the guys who you’re not sure about. Roansy Contreras, I think, is an example where it matters. Contreras has not pitched above A-ball, and he’s on the Rule 5. He doesn’t have a big ceiling, but he’s good enough as a prospect that if you don’t protect him in the Rule 5 he’ll get picked. The Yankees are absolutely loaded with guys like this, because they sign so many high-upside amateurs who take a while to develop. They simply have to trade some of them, which depresses their value, especially closer to the trade deadline.
The reason why I would argue it matters is that case is because it’s opportunity cost; the ability to keep a guy like that on the 40-man roster for multiple years hurts your ability to roster other guys who are closer, who can replenish your team more regularly, and other guys who can help out more.
Agreed that the Yanks dealt a high-risk package for a high-risk SP, but it feels like quite the haul for the Pirates. I understand the Yankees being motivated to alleviate their 40-man roster crunch, but I’m surprised that the Pirates were able to pry Escotto (who doesn’t need protection for awhile) in addition to the other 3 players.
Honestly, this package is similar to that of the one for Gerrit Cole where the Pirates opted for quantity over quality. As in… there are no studs in this package, but collective probability says one of these guys should click and deliver significant value.
I disagree in that I think the Pirates return is quite different from the players they got from Houston for Cole. None of the known quantities, Moran, Feliz and Musgrove all had seen some major league experience for two years and the industry had not considered any one of them much more than second division talent. Martin was recently released by the Pirates. It is more than a little premature to say there are no studs. Nobody knows who a stud is until they get between the lines and play ball. Mookie Betts, 5th round, Paul Goldschmidt, 8th round, Jacob deGrom, 9th round, Mike Piazza, 57th round. This package is younger and, while clearly still some distance away from being major leaguers, all seem to have quite a bit more upside than the poor group that Huntington got for Cole.
Piazza was 62nd round
Given how many picks that late are made and you have one name, then doesn’t that suggest odds are quite low for a major success?
I remember at the time the fangraphs consensus was that the Pirates won the trade, because Musgrove was as good as Cole already. With that said Musgrove might still end up being a very good pitcher, but Cole he is not.
Jeff Sullivan and Longenhagen both loved Moran and thought these post-hype prospects were the new wave in MLB. Most commenters thought the Pirates’ return was poor.
At least in the commentariat, I think the consensus was that the Pirates got fleeced. Although I’m pretty sure no one thought Gerrit Cole would turn into a league ace.
I went back and looked at several articles on the Cole trade. Fangraphs writers generally thought that the return was weak. But commenters generally liked the return for Pittsburgh. You (sadtrombone) were one of the few that agreed with the Fangraphs writers.
Is that right? Ha. I remember being particularly down on Moran.
EDIT: Oh wow.
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-gerrit-cole-trade-has-a-perception-problem/
Yeah, credit to you for being strongly against Houston’s package for Cole. I was only mildly against since I liked Musgrove and didn’t like Moran and thought the package didn’t match the package for Sonny Gray. Katoh loved Moran with a 3 WAR projection.
There’s also this article.
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/instagraphs/houston-actually-acquires-gerrit-cole-this-time/
Pirates are down 5.4 WAR on the Cole trade with Musgrove having 2 years left and Moran having 3. From a total WAR perspective, I think what the Moran and Musgrove years the Pirates received will (or get very close) produce more wins (provided Musgrove doesn’t get hurt) than Cole did for the Astros despite Moran’s disappointing performance and Cole going nuclear. Also, I highly doubt Cole dumps the sinker as quickly for the Pirates, throws 4 seamer even higher, and increase breaking ball usage by over 33% (i.e, Pirates wouldn’t have gotten nearly as much from Cole as the Astros did).
The big problem I have with the Pirates trade of Cole is that they traded a lot of concentrated wins when they didn’t need for unconcentrated wins when they didn’t need them. The Pirates should have gotten players that weren’t already using up years of service in the majors for Cole.
Now that Musgrove has been traded, the total WAR the Pirates received in the trade will depend on how the new players do. Not on how Musgrove does the next two years.
Beyond that, I don’t think total WAR is really a good way to look at which team did better in a trade. First of all, you’re almost always better off having the higher WAR player, than having several lower WAR players. Secondly, while Moran (1.3) and Feliz (0.1) both contributed positive WAR, they used up a lot of playing time to do so (1100+ PAs and 100 IP respectively). The Pirates could have picked players off of the scrap heap to do what they did. Which means that their contributions to the Pirates were basically zero.
No, a player picked up off the scrap heap would theoretically have a WAR of 0.0. That’s literally what Wins Above Replacement means.
First of all, I wasn’t trying to be that literal in the use of the term scrap heap. I simply meant that there’s lots of cheaply available talent and it wouldn’t have been that hard for the Pirates to find someone who could have done the same or better than Moran. And without giving up much in return.
As the WAR itself, In the cumulative, the WAR for replacement level players would be around 0.0. But not for each individual player. In this article, Dave Cameron lists examples of replacement level players and some of them have WARS as high as 0.8 (which would fit in nicely with Colin Moran’s career).
https://blogs.fangraphs.com/the-recent-examples-of-a-replacement-level-player/
Of course, Dave’s analysis is after the fact. Before the season begins, there are plenty of scrap heap players and a number of them will produce above replacement level seasons.
A win is a win. WAR already accounts for playing time. The Angels having Trout has not gave them a bonus amount of wins. The Pirates could pick players off the scrap heap, but based on them having several players picking up a lot of negative WAR….it is unlikely that these guys produce positive WAR.
In response to Joe Joe.
While a “win is a win”, the problem is that there are a finite number of roster spaces and limited playing time. If I offer you 5 full time position players who produce 1 WAR a piece for 1 full time position player who produces 5 WAR would you do that trade? Of course not! You’ve just committed half of your starting position spots to guys who are below average which limits your ability to be competitive. And if you really want a bunch of 1 WAR players, there are plenty of ways to get them without giving up a 5 WAR player in return.
Thanks for the link. I just visited it and found that I made 2 comments. One earned me a -35 and the other was “only” a -27. In both I simply blasted the Pirates and I think I can look back and be reasonably satisfied with my analysis of the quality of the players that the Pirates got in return. Moran, Feliz and Martin all have negative bWAR for their careers and Musgrove is only slightly positive. And to think that Huntington followed this stinker up with a leading contender for the worst trade ever made. I feel great empathy for those poor Pirate fans.
Iirc Musgrove had a higher war projection than Cole, or virtually identical. I’m sure someone could verify that.
Yep
Musgrove’s projection is better than Cole’s, better enough to accumulate an extra 0.1 WAR despite a projected 20 less IP (projections probably haven’t been re-run for their new parks, either, which will help Musgrove and hurt Cole).
To be fair, Cole was not Cole as a pirate either!
I think the Cole package was PIT trying to do what we see TBR doing. Trade for ML talent with some upside. Moran had been a top prospect. If you have a roster of average players, you always compete and every now and then you have break ours and make the playoffs.
This trade is a more traditional prospect hoard. Which, given very few teams are the Rays, I would tend to side with.
Steve Williams became the director of pro scouting for the Pirates before 2018 and that’s when it seems the Pirates started targeting certain guys before they fully breakout with the Luplow/Moroff trade for Mendoza/Thomas/Gonzalez (though they did acquire Cruz the summer before). Under Cherington it appears they’re going more towards the betting on certain traits and characteristics with scouting and analyzing data on players more far away.
– Marte trade: Peguero and Malone where Peguero despite already being a 50 only had 1.5 years state side and with games in 2020 had a good path to being bumped to a 55. Malone only 8 pro innings
– Bell trade: Yean is projectable and Eric mentioned that in 2019 was drawing interest by sellers
– Musgrove trade: Head posting solid exit velo’s and was hitting in pro ball with “remarkable bat control.” Rodriguez is a good athlete and “we have him valued where we had Rafael Marchan and Gabriel Moreno at the same stage”, who both are now fringe top 100 guys
– Taillon trade: Yajure looks to be trending up and could be another back top 100. Smith-Njigba and Escotto were on Eric’s 2021 picks to click.
The club has added already a top 100 (Peguero) and 7 others who are trending upwards on the lists. There’s an inherited risk given the ages and distance to the majors but it’s clear they’re targeting players with skillsets that they cannot obtain in free agency because of a financial constraint and players who once pop become more costly in trades, and thus a team like the Pirates would now be priced out of the market. Going for traits of prospects on verge of breakout but not just there yet is a way to get those fatter tails into a developmental pipeline, especially as you need some to hit their right tailed outcomes to compete with a larger constraint.
Their J2 classes (especially 2018) look to be stronger than in the past with more upside in Cruz, Chen, Maguire for 2019 J2 and Polanco in 2021 international. This will eventually lead to a 40 man crunch, with what I’ve counted (using The Board and roster resource as guys who need added Dec 21 or be risked in rule five) as
– Omar Cruz
– Travis Swaggerty
– Liover Peguero
– Tahnaj Thomas
– Cody Bolton
– Eddy Yean
– Mason Martin
– Canaan Smith
– Cal Mitchell
With maybe guys such as Jennings, Burrows, MacGregor, and Florez being options. They’re at a position in time where removing 9 or 10 from the 40 isn’t too hard and it will likely only end up around 7 adds to the 40 I imagine. It’s the following year with Drake Fellows, Sergio Campana, Alexander Mojica, Ji-Hwan Bae, Endy Rodriguez, and Rodolfo Nolasco need to be added. Not all will hit and certainly full seasons in 2021 and 2022 will help decide the futures of these prospects but over the next two years, the Pirates will have more moves they need to make.
The club seemed directionless for a bit but have been acquiring players with skillsets that not only creates depth in the system but creates players with loftier ceilings. Transitioning and getting players to hit on their ceilings and move the floor up is the next challenge. Can’t win without stars and the Pirates certainly are betting on their next crop to move into these higher tiers. It’s certainly a risky approach targeting players with more variability (the lower minor leaguers before they break out) but it appears to be the best way for the Pirates to add higher ceiling talent to a system that will constantly need to produce quality MLB players to have true sustained success as they won’t compete in an open market for the skillsets.
Great analysis David!
Superb. Thanks for posting.
Thank you Ben Cherungton describing and explaining your strategy!
@FiredNeal is that you???
I agree. Pirates are lowkey doing a great job through the beginning of the Cherrington era. Need to see what happens next.
Hire this man
they also have the most money in the deepest draft ever due to last years draft scaring away many college juniors and draft elegible sophomores.
The Pirates are the best bet to have the most money and the first pick in the reportedly strong 2022 draft. It is also likely to have a top 5 pick in 2023. The question now is whether it can hit on the opportunities it has.
It would help if MLB would authorize trading International Free Agent money. Removing that option tends to screw low revenue teams.
Great piece.. but more importantly.. I live in Catty,PA lol. Across from the George Taylor house!
it’s best to bear in mind that the Yankees trades prospects whom were not in the team’s top 10.
this was a medium-risk, high-reward deal for the Yanks
and the acquisition of Taillon now frees up the Yankees to move a higher-value pitching prospect and make a more significant trade
Except they did. Eric stated that Yajure is a borderline top-100 prospect in baseball. Which means he certainly would have been listed as top 10 in the Yankees system.
I Like that this time the pirates went for a younger higher variance package unlike the cole trade where they went for older mlb ready prospects. Back in the day that might have made sense but now the pirates face a long rebuild and they need young,high upside guys because they don’t really have a young core to build around and they can’t buy stars so they have to try develope them.
Hopefully they can build a core like they had in the early 2010s (cutch, cole, marte) but with a bit more around them.
At this point the pirates should really trade anybody and really tank 2021 and 22 to build a super farm like the cubs, astros, braves, white sox and padres all did in the last 5 years.
Still it won’t be easy to compete with that budget but at this point that is the only chance.
Though, in a system where the Pirates are well run on the big league level, this team could be set up right now to be the division favorite. Their farm system has produced as well as most anybody’s over the past decade, yet, here they are, once again, the worst team in the league.
Given the current state of the Pirates farm system, the draft positions it has and will likely have in the future and the competencies of the operations department, the Pirates are the best bet to be the dominant team in the NL Central in the second part of this decade.
Of course, the Pirates were well positioned to compete in the second half of the last decade. We saw how that turned out…..
Yeah Sure, middle of the decade they also looked quite nice with a good Core and top prospects like meadows and glasnow and it didnt Work Out Well.
Finances of course do play a role here. I wonder if it would make sense for cherington to immitate the rays and As and basically trade every good player after the first arb year for new prospects.
Fans would hate that and rightfully so, but it could maybe make them continuously somewhat competitive.
Of course while this strategy sounds simple (acquire prospects, develope them, use for 3-4 years, then trade and repeat) but you need excellent scouting and player dev to make that work consistently.
This is not ideal but if the owner doesn’t want to. Pay that might be more fan friendly than the alternative (build core, compete, then full tank mode rebuild for several years).
The best way obviously would be an owner who does spend:)
I believe I made this point:
“Yeah Sure, middle of the decade they also looked quite nice with a good Core and top prospects like meadows and glasnow and it didnt Work Out Well.”
There is ‘The Fog of Baseball’ to consider, which refers to problems beyond prospect success. That’s why I said best bet.
What, or who, has the Pirates farm system produced the last 5-6 years ?
Glasnow, meadows (traded), Keller, newman, Bell, Shane baz (Traded), bryan reynolds
Not all are stars but quite a few solid big leaguers.
Lot of underperforming MIFs and some backend starters.
Catcher Jacob Stallings is probably best one but no one knows who he is unless you know framing guys
Not meaning to be snarky, but if you had paid a little more attention, Cherington has been busy doing that since the end of last season. There is little or anything of any value remaining outside of Adam Frazier and Gregory Polanco as position players and possibly Rich Rodriguez in the bullpen.
Polanco has value?
Saw a lot of Smith-Njigba in 2019 and out of I guess laziness I thought, ‘yeah he’s really good but he’s clearly like 24 years old so he should be dominating.’ Reading that he was 19/20 is stunning.
He’s a big leaguer. He moves better than someone that size should, think Puig for a body comp.
Hopefully the move the Pittsburg clears a path to MLB playing time.
I too, thought he was much older than 19/20. It seems like he’s been around longer than that.
This was an awfully good return. Smith-Njigba looks like a stud…maybe he only winds up at first base by the time he hits the bigs but he can rake. The other guys range from “likely solid contributor, maybe more” (Yajure) to “higher risk but could be a a really valuable player” (Escotto).
I like this haul a lot, especially considering that Taillon is a wild card and he could have no trade value at midseason (I suppose he could have a lot more than this too, but I wouldn’t bet on it).
Two TJ surgeries = flip a coin.
He is a bigger risk than 2021 Kluber.
$1 says Jaxon received a larger signing bonus from OSU than Canaan did from the Yanks.
Teams with payroll constraints are going to have a harder time dealing with risk, and Taillon presented the Pirates with a ton of it. If he shoved the first half of the season, they could have gotten more in return. But for a two-time TJ arm that will most certainly be on an innings restriction this year, you can also argue that his value wouldn’t increase that much by July or August because he might be running out of room to run. I like Yajure a lot; the kid has really developed in the last 24 months and I think there’s more growth on the horizon. This is a 50FV arm now that has room to grow. And Canaan Smith… well, I’ve read so many various reports on him from prospect evaluators that I think he could be anything from a 4th outfielder to a potential All-Star-season-or-two type corner OF. But he came on my radar via Fangraphs when other teams from around his league were calling him one of the toughest outs and that is something I take note of when the player is age-appropriate.
I think the Pirates did really, really well here. And I think the AL East is gonna be a lot of fun to watch between the Yanks, Rays and Jays. On top of what I think will be a very competitive NL East… I’m gonna have a lot of trouble picking the 7pm game I want to watch every night…
I think it’s a good point that the Pirates would have had trouble building Taillon’s value without giving him a fair amount of innings, but by giving him those innings they simultaneously would have been reducing his value for this season.
I will be interested in seeing how the Yankees manage Taillon’s workload to ensure that he’ll be in the best position to contribute in the postseason.
I disagree about risk, I think the Pirates need to take risks if they’re going to get back into contention. He wasn’t blocking anyone, they’re giving playing time to Chad Kuhl and Steven Brault, so there’s not a ton of value to be had on that side either. It’s a good point about the innings limit, but they’d also have a lot more demand once pitchers on contending teams get injured, which may be a lot uglier this year with no one pitching more than 90 competitive IP in 2020.
Betting on player development instead of one player’s TJ rehab is reasonable and I can see why they went for it now, but don’t undersell how well win now trades can work out for rebuilding teams in July.
You make a very good and fair point. What I should have expressed better is that the risk is assymetric. They got two players that I think will be good MLB usable parts (Yajure, Smith) and two lottery tickets. If Taillon gets hurt, they risk getting way less. If he performs well, they probably get a little more.
Yes, teams need to take risks to rebuild well… but I can understand offloading that assymetric risk.
One other thing I’ll point out: While I really like this haul for the Pirates, they have a lot of prospects right now who are going to need Rule 5 protection very, very soon, or who are pretty far away. Roansy Contreras and Rodolfo Castro probably won’t be ready for a while and are on the Rule 5. Meanwhile, Liover Peguero, Swaggerty, Smith-Njigba, Cody Bolton, Tahnaj Thomas, and Eddy Yean all need Rule 5 protection next winter, and it’s going to be a bit of a stretch for any of them but Bolton to be ready for the majors. And there are more guys like Endy Rodriguez and Escott who haven’t played above rookie ball and will need protection in 2022.
This isn’t inherently a bad thing because for many of the guys on the 40-man, if they aren’t producing soon it’ll be no problem to cut them loose (looking at you, Will Craig and Kevin Newman). They very well might have the room. But it’s going to be weird if there are 10 guys on the 40 man who aren’t realistic candidates for the MLB roster.
Excellent point. I think Mason Martin needs Rule 5 protection in December 2021 as well and he’s on my “intriguing to watch” radar.
Funny, I went back and it looks like someone did the exact same thing I did. Whoops. Should’ve read even the long comments all the way through before writing it out.
Will Craig was designated for assignment in November and then sent outright to Indianapolis. Later signed a Minor league deal
I confess that I am very curious with Taillon does. Odds he is in that 15 to 30 overall SP range versus he falls outside top 75.
I am surprised the Pirates and CLE have more 40+ FV guys than the Rays (look at the community prospect board for the Rays at DRaysBay to see what I mean…the talent the guys in the mid 20’s for us have is crazy) . Color me impressed.
If I’m a Yanks fan I’m biting my nails coming into the year. You’re heavily relying on guys coming back from lengthy and severe injuries and definitely innings limits (Kluber, Taillon, Severino, German, Montgomery, etc.).
Mid-season trades.
Going to be tricky since they seem committed to staying under every LT threshold. And they’re almost out of space already.
Just traded Ottavino and a prospect to Boston to eat their salary. Red Sox buy a prospect, see if they can fix Ottavino. Yankees duck a bit under the tax threshold. After signing Gardner, they’ll have roughly an Ottavino-sized slot in their salary structure to add more.
As discussed above, the Yankees have the depth to mitigate that risk. The rotation now runs something like seven deep:
Cole, Severino, Kluber, Garcia, Taillon, Montgomery, German.
You’re quite obviously not going to get 30+ starts from each of them. But you don’t need to. (And they’ll have guys like Loasiaga, Cessa, and maybe even Schmidt waiting in the wings as spot starters).
And, with a bunch of high-variance options, they increase their odds of a couple of them hitting their 80th percentile projected and forming a strong playoff 2/3 behind Cole.
This team is highly likely to make the postseason, and the structure of the Yankees makes it more appealing to have a binary 4 win/0 win outcome from some starters than a guaranteed 2-win caliber arm, IMO.
Depth? 5 of those guys have serious concerns (and Severino not going to be back until the all-star breakish). You don’t know what they’re going to do and they’re huge risks – not only that they’re going to be on very strict innings limits. It’s not inconceivable (I’d argue even likely) by June the Yanks are scraping their AA SP depth to fill slots. It’s a huge gamble on their part.
Honestly the Yanks, Rays, and Jays all have this uncertainty issue. The Rays because they’re going to heavily rely on a bunch of talented rookies and hoping sophomore year from Fleming is good. The Jays…well their pitching just sucks. I’d rank my confidence from Rays, Jays, Yanks.
Also, if I had to pick a teams SP rookies to rely on it wouldn’t be the Yanks. Patino > Garcia/Schmidt, McClannahan > Garcia/Schmidt. (I’m high on Joe Ryan, but I can buy the argument that he’s worse than Garcia and so-so with Schmidt)
Both sides did well here, I think, but Jameson’s injury history makes me think Pirates have a better shot of “winning” the trade. This sounds like 4 MLB players, even if none are likely to be stars, for a 29 year old who hasn’t pitched a whole lot (which I admittedly framed as a way to make it sound like Pirates definitely won).
Think your “sounds like 4 MLB players” might be a stretch here, but decent lottery tickets all. Yajure has debuted and looks like a decent 4-5 starter floor with perhaps a limited ceiling but still young. The other 3 haven’t played above low A, and sat in the Yanks #15-22 range of 40+ FV prospects. Yajure may be benefitting from being the only one seen in the past year, but Smith and Escotto had some helium off their ’19 performances. Guess we’ll see. Of course if Taillon’s arm falls off its a big Pitt win here.
Do the Pirates plan to trade every major leaguer with a salary above $1,000,000? It feels that way.
Anyone with two years of team control or less. Adam Frazier, Chad Kuhl, Erik Gonzalez, and Michael Feliz are the only ones left. The only reason they’re still on the team is because no one wants to give up anyone good for them right now. Maybe things will be different at mid-season.
They may even sign a guy who slips through the cracks, maybe by offering an option year. They’re thin at CF, C, and relief pitching.
They may as well. They’re going nowhere soon and need to keep bringing in kids. Polanco would be a good fit for someone somewhere I am sure.
Well this is interesting. Red Sox buy a prospect from the Yankees by taking on Ottavino’s salary.
https://twitter.com/lindseyadler/status/1353752361504825350
There are wings and there are prayers and it appears that the ’21 NYY rotation will have plenty of both.
I very much like what the pirates are doing outside the Musgrove trade, and it’s clear Cherrington is preparing for a long rebuild, this is generally the easy part though. The key is the development of these prospects as they move up the chain and how the upper level Pirates prospects develop. In a way Pirates lower minors mirrors Clevelands with a mix of athletes, good feel for contact guys, and interesting upside pitchers. I prefer Clevelands lower minors group over probably anyones at the moment but the pirates are coming
You would know better than I, but from my perspective it’s likely that, if you ranked farm systems solely on the basis of talent below AA, the Pirates would be miles ahead of any other team.
C – Endy Rodriguez, Geovanny Planchart, Jommer Hernandez
1B – Alex Mojica
2B – Ji-Hwan Bae, Yoyner Fajardo, Juan Jerez
3B – Jared Triolo, Maikel Escotto
SS – Liover Peguero, Luis Tejeda
OF – Hudson Head, Sammy Siani, Rodolfo Nolasco, Sergio Campana, Canaan Smith, Jack Herman, Lolo Sanchez
SP – Quinn Priester, Travis MacGregor, Steven Jennings, Omar Cruz, Carmen Mlodzinski, Tahnaj Thomas, Brennan Malone, Michael Burrows, Braxton Ashcraft, Santiago Florez, Nick Garcia, Domingo Gonzalez, Jared Jones, Eddy Yean, Wilkin Ramos, Andy Maldonado, Cris Cruz
And that’s just the guys (mostly) that you list on your roster resource page. Their 2020 IFA class looks awesome and their 2021 class seems to be shaping up well, too. Between them, they are likely to add at least another 15 guys to your radar for next year. My top 30 guys likely to get to your 15 would be:
C – Omar Alfonzo, Eybert Escalona, Miguel Sosa
INF – Javier Rivas, Delfin Ramirez, Tsung-Che Cheng, Isaias Dipre, John Zorilla
OF – Ewry Espinal, Robert DePaula, Heiron Montalban, Solomon Maguire, Emmanuel Terrero, Shalin Polanco, Ruben Vizcaya
P – Yojeiry Osoria, Isaias Uribe, Gilberto Alcala, Roelmy Garcia, Juan Santos, Juan Fuentes, Luis Joseph, Francis Olantilo, Sebastian Rodriguez, Yunior Thibo, Weslyn Toussaint, Po-Yu Chen, Wilber Dotel, Darlin Diaz, Jose Garces
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