Sunday Notes: Chase Utley is Ballot-Bound (and Underrated)

Who was better, Joe Mauer or Chase Utley? I asked that question in a Twitter poll earlier this week and the result was… well, lopsided. The erstwhile Minnesota Twins catcher/first baseman garnered 79.5% of the 1,362 votes cast, while the former Philadelphia Phillies and Los Angeles Dodgers second baseman received just 20.5%. With both debuting on next year’s Hall of Fame ballot — one that will include numerous notable holdovers — that breakdown could be telling. While it seems unlikely that Utley will join the likes of Bobby Grich and Lou Whitaker as a one-and-done snub, might he poll just as poorly, or even worse, with BBWAA voters as he did in the head-to-head matchup with Mauer?

Utley finished his career with 61.6 fWAR and 64.5 bWAR.
Mauer finished his career with 53.0 fWAR and 55.2 bWAR.

Adrián Beltré, who will also debut on the ballot, is a shoo-in to be elected in his first year of eligibility. It is much for that reason that the Mauer-Utley comparison is meaningful — at least for the segment of voters that includes yours truly. Eight of the 10 candidates I voted for this year will be returning, and Beltré is a no-brainer. That leaves one open slot. Moreover, I’m not alone in this conundrum. A total of 54 voters put checkmarks next to 10 names, with eight ballots being identical to mine.

Voting for both Mauer and Utley is obviously an option (and there is strong possibility that I’ll do just that) but who then would I drop? Many might suggest Bobby Abreu, but I’m firmly in his camp. Manny and A-Rod could be candidates, but I’ve grudgingly decided not to play PED cop (let’s not forget that Bud Selig is in the Hall of Fame). Gary Sheffield? Next year will be his last on the ballot, and while the chance of him getting the requisite 75% are remote, he hit 509 bombs while logging a 141 wRC+. Andruw Jones? That would mean incurring the wrath of Atlanta Braves fans, but unlike Sheffield he has multiple years of eligibility left and is in no danger of falling off the ballot.

Which brings us back to Mauer and Utley. I’ll be surprised if Mauer gets less than 50% of support in his first year on the BBWAA ballot, and I expect that he’ll eventually gain election. Which he should. As for Utley, let’s just say that I’m far less confident. Again, the chances of his suffering the same fate as Grich and Whitaker (both of whom had a higher WAR) are pretty low. Today’s voters are far more prone to look under the hood than they were a few decades ago. At the same time, the amount of support Utley gets will likely be far less than he merits. Regardless of how he compares to Mauer, Utley is very underrated. In my opinion, he’s worthy of a plaque in Cooperstown.

———

You Aren't a FanGraphs Member
It looks like you aren't yet a FanGraphs Member (or aren't logged in). We aren't mad, just disappointed.
We get it. You want to read this article. But before we let you get back to it, we'd like to point out a few of the good reasons why you should become a Member.
1. Ad Free viewing! We won't bug you with this ad, or any other.
2. Unlimited articles! Non-Members only get to read 10 free articles a month. Members never get cut off.
3. Dark mode and Classic mode!
4. Custom player page dashboards! Choose the player cards you want, in the order you want them.
5. One-click data exports! Export our projections and leaderboards for your personal projects.
6. Remove the photos on the home page! (Honestly, this doesn't sound so great to us, but some people wanted it, and we like to give our Members what they want.)
7. Even more Steamer projections! We have handedness, percentile, and context neutral projections available for Members only.
8. Get FanGraphs Walk-Off, a customized year end review! Find out exactly how you used FanGraphs this year, and how that compares to other Members. Don't be a victim of FOMO.
9. A weekly mailbag column, exclusively for Members.
10. Help support FanGraphs and our entire staff! Our Members provide us with critical resources to improve the site and deliver new features!
We hope you'll consider a Membership today, for yourself or as a gift! And we realize this has been an awfully long sales pitch, so we've also removed all the other ads in this article. We didn't want to overdo it.

RANDOM HITTER-PITCHER MATCHUPS

Mike Trout is 0 for 6 against Buck Farmer.

Billy O‘Dell went 1 for 5 against Jay Hook.

Collin Cowgill went 2 for 6 against Anthony Bass.

Troy O’Leary went 0 for 4 against Doug Creek.

Grover Lowdermilk went 0 for 7 against Ray Fisher.

Darwin Barney went 5 for 22 against Jake Westbrook.

———

Terry Francona is well on his way to the Hall of Fame. The Cleveland Guardians skipper ranks 16th all-time with 1,874 managerial wins, and this year he’ll move past Bill McKechnie, Gene Mauch, and Casey Stengel. Francona has led teams to a pair of World Series titles, and another to extra innings of a seventh game.

I asked A.J. Hinch for his thoughts on Francona last season.

“He’s sneaky new-school,” the Detroit manager told me. “I think he’s evolved, otherwise he wouldn’t still be managing. He’s managing one of the more progressive organizations around and doing it quite well. So, I think he’s a blend, as you would expect from someone who has lasted and been tested across time. I have never coached or managed with him — even spent a ton of time around him — but he’s still relatable. That’s a great skill to have with today’s players, to be just as relatable as he was when he first started managing.

“His success is incredible. Some of it is measurable. Some of it is not. But when you’ve had the impact on the players, and the organizations that he has, the highest honor should be bestowed upon him. He’s 100% a Hall of Famer.”

———

A quiz:

The top three all-time leaders in on-base percentage in Phillies franchise history (“Sliding Billy” Hamilton, Roy Thomas, and Elmer Flick) debuted in the 1800s. The player who ranks fourth is far more recent. Who is it?

The answer can be found below.

———

NEWS NOTES

The Oakland Athletics have added Johnny Doskow to their radio broadcast team. Doskow, who has been the voice of the Triple-A Sacramento River Cats since 2000, joins the top-notch duo of Ken Korach and Vince Cotroneo.

Gary Peters, who pitched for the Chicago White Sox from 1959-1969, and the Boston Red Sox from 1970-1972, died earlier this week at age 85. A left-hander, Peters went 20-8 in 1964, and logged the best ERA in the American League in 1963 and 1966. A good-hitting pitcher who went deep 19 times, he had at least one home run every year from 1963-1971.

Sal Bando died on January 20 at age 78. One of the best third basemen not in the Hall of Fame, the four-time All-Star amassed 56.2 WAR and had a 121 wRC+ while playing for the Oakland Athletics and the Milwaukee Brewers from 1966-1981. Bando was the A’s captain when they won three consecutive World Series titles in the ‘70s.

SABR Day will take place next Saturday, February 4, with numerous chapters throughout the country holding get-togethers, both virtual and in-person. Information can be found here.

——-

The answer to the quiz is Bobby Abreu, who logged a .416 OBP in his nine seasons with Philadelphia. Ed Delahanty (.415) and John Kruk (.400) ranks fifth and sixth.

———

Brayan Bello was throwing primarily four-seamers when I first talked to him for FanGraphs in June 2021. The 23-year-old right-hander, who was in Double-A at the time, now throws a higher percentage of two-seamers. That transition began last season.

“My fastball doesn’t have a lot of spin,” reasoned Bello, who debuted with the Boston Red Sox in July. “I can throw my fastball up, and sometimes inside or outside, but my two-seam is better.”

The numbers back that up. Bello’s four-seamer, which he threw 186 times in his 57-and-a-third big-league innings, was in the 89th percentile for velocity (97.0 mph), but only 27th percentile for spin (2,202 rpm). The Samana, Dominican Republic native told me that his arm angle is more conducive to a two-seamer, but that he’s needed to learn to command the pitch better.

Bello, who entered last year as arguably Boston’s top pitching prospect, also features a plus slider and what our lead prospect analysts Eric Longenhagen has called “a sneaky good changeup.” And then there is the pitch that Bello threw to big-league hitters just five times last season.

“My curveball is a new pitch I’ve developed,” said Bello. “My other pitches are all 85 and up — they’re all hard — and I’m hoping that a soft little curve will help throw some hitters off.”

Bello’s new curveball is in the 77-79-mph range. He’s expected to begin the season in Boston’s starting rotation.

———

A look back at a player who had a pair of big seasons, back-to-back, in the 1970s:

In 1977, Larry Hisle had 28 home runs, 119 RBIs, and a 141 wRC+ for the Minnesota Twins. The Portsmouth, Ohio native then signed with the Milwaukee Brewers as a free agent and proceeded to hit 34 home runs, drive in 115 runs, and log a 153 wRC+ in 1978.

Hisle dislocated his shoulder in April 1979 — he was 32 years old at the time — and never fully recovered. His career fizzled and was soon over. He finished with 166 home runs and a 123 wRC+.

———

FOREIGN AFFAIRS

Hirokazu Sawamura has signed with NPB’s Chiba Lotte Marines, one of two teams he played for (the Yomiuri Giants are the other) before spending the last two seasons with the Boston Red Sox. The 34-year-old right-hander appeared in 104 MLB games and went 6-2 with a 3.39 ERA and 101 strikeouts in 103-and-two-thirds innings.

The Adelaide Giants and the Perth Heat will play in the Australian Baseball League’s three-game championship series, which will begin on Friday. The Giants advanced by beating the Auckland Tuatara, while the Heat bested the Brisbane Bandits.

Bandits catcher Alex Hall led the ABL in OPS during the regular season, finishing with a .360/.440/.626 slash line and eight home runs in 159 plate appearances. The 23-year-old Perth native plays in the Milwaukee Brewers system.

Tuatara southpaw Jason Blanchard made 13 relief appearances and allowed seven hits and one earned runs in 21 innings. The 25-year-old Austin, Texas native plays in the San Diego Padres system.

———

Quinn Priester was a guest on Friday’s episode of FanGraphs Audio, and among the topics the 22-year-old right-hander touched on were a pair of his fellow Pittsburgh Pirates pitching prospects. Priester is rated by Baseball America as having the system’s best curveball, so I asked him how his compares to the one thrown by 23-year-old righty Mike Burrows.

“It hurts to say, but Mike has got a better one than I do,” Priester said on the pod. “He spins the absolute crap out of it. And it’s extremely sharp. Playing catch with Mike, when he throws his curveball, it comes out, one, like a fastball, so you almost flinch, because it looks like it’s coming at your face. And then there’s a second flinch where it looks like it rolls off the table and just drops straight down. It almost drills your ankles… I’ve got to imagine that it’s really not fun to see in the box.”

Asked if any of his other teammates have left him thinking, “Man, I wish I could throw that pitch,” the 2019 first-rounder named a newly-turned-24-year-old right-hander who some evaluators now consider the organization’s top pitching prospect.

“Everything Luis Ortiz does,” replied Priester. “I’m like, ‘Dang, I wish I could throw 101-mph sinkers.’ Ortiz is one of those outliers where he just kind of goes out and is just so talented. He’s so good…. I wish I could steal his velocity.”

Priester and Ortiz are Top 100 prospects. Burrows, a Top 10 in the Pirates system, is coming off of a 2022 campaign that saw him earn a midseason promotion to Triple-A after dominating at Double-A Altoona.

———

LINKS YOU’LL LIKE

MLB.com’s Molly Burkhardt talked to former Boston Red Sox and Cincinnati Reds right-hander Bronson Arroyo about his music career and forthcoming album, “Some Might Say.”

At Seattle’s MyNorthwest, Shannon Drayer talked to former FanGraphs editor Dave Cameron about how he went from a young Mariners fan, and blogger, to his current role as the club’s director of player procurement.

USA Today’s Gabe Lacques wrote about how after decades of headaches, the steroid era is almost over for Hall of Fame voters.

Tokyo’s Meiji Jingu Stadium, where Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig once played on a tour of Japan, is slated to be torn down… unless a petition can save it. Elaine Lies has the story at the Reuters news agency.

———

RANDOM FACTS AND STATS

Sadaharu Oh slashed .333/.532/.761 with 49 home runs for the Yomiuri Giants in 1974. He had 158 walks and 44 strikeouts.

Jeff McNeil was born in April 1992 and has 564 career hits.
Manny Machado was born in July 1992 and has 1,597 career hits.

Nolan Ryan walked 204 batters over 299 innings in 1977. Greg Maddux walked 199 batters over 1,430-and-a-third innings from 1996-2001.

Kirk Gibson, Warren Cromartie, Terry Puhl, and Todd Benzinger all played for the Royals in 1991. Gibson hit 16 of his 255 career home runs with Kansas City that season.

Philadelphia Phillies right-hander Pete Alexander led the NL in wins, ERA, and innings pitched each year from 1915-1917. His average season over that stretch was 31-12 with a 1.54 ERA, and 384 innings pitched. In December 1917, the Phillies traded HIM to the Chicago Cubs in exchange for Pickles Dillhoefer, Mike Prendergast, and cash. Alexander’s career was fascinating, and his SABR BioProject biography is well worth your time.

The Minnesota Twins signed Chili Davis as a free agent on today’s date in 1991. Davis hit 41 home runs and had a 133 wRC+ in two seasons with the Twins, part of a career that saw him go deep 350 times and log a 118 wRC+ from 1981-1999.

Players born on today’s date include Bobby Bolin, who pitched for three teams, most notably the San Francisco Giants, from 1961-1973. A right-hander who worked both as starter and out of the bullpen, Bolin went 10-5 with a 1.99 ERA for the Giants in 1968.

Also born on today’s date was Morgan Burkhart, a first baseman who debuted with the Red Sox in 1990, two years after being signed out of the independent Frontier League. Burkhart played 42 big-league games — 36 with Boston and six with the Kansas City Royals — logging 30 hits, including five home runs.





David Laurila grew up in Michigan's Upper Peninsula and now writes about baseball from his home in Cambridge, Mass. He authored the Prospectus Q&A series at Baseball Prospectus from December 2006-May 2011 before being claimed off waivers by FanGraphs. He can be followed on Twitter @DavidLaurilaQA.

42 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Justin1025Member since 2020
3 years ago

The way I always think about PED guys like ARod and Manny when it comes to the HoF ballot is if there is room for them to get votes vote for them. But, if the ballot is crowded then the penalty they pay for steroid use is to not get a vote. If three guys get in next year like they should there are only two guys coming onto the ballot for 2025 that make sense as votes and you can rotate one of the PED guys back on.

Terry HusethMember since 2019
3 years ago

David

You are correct, Bud is on tg
he HOF.

One wrong shoild not be made worse by 3 wrongs. The talent ARoid had wasn’t enough? Canseco isn’t in ARoid is a joke.

As for Utley vs. Mauer. Joe was the face of the Twins franchise. Had a great career and stayed clean. Sounds like a HOFer to me.

Chase???? Instead of comparing, let each be measured on his own merits.

Ukranian to Vietnamese to French is back
3 years ago
Reply to  Terry Huseth

Dayview

Pravoruch víd sy, Bud na -u
Pan HOF.

One wrong shmuck was not worse than three truths. Aroid’s talent wasn’t enough? Tsansetso is not in Aroid, she barked.

Хо бореться з Atlі against Mauer. Joe is the “Twins” bio-franchise. ao ajnu aíjeru remained clean. Call us HOFer wannabes.

What are you doing???? Instead of comparison, let everyone be measured by their own Merits.

MikeSMember since 2020
3 years ago

One wrong shmuck was not worse than three truths. 

I’m having business cards printed up with this on them.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago

I mean, it’s your ballot, but Utley and Mauer seem to me to both be more obvious Hall of Fame choices than anyone else leftover from this year’s crop. Maybe you should fill out Beltre, Utley, and Mauer first and then figure out who slots in after that.

I can also see wanting to keep Helton and Wagner and Jones on in case there’s enough for them to get over the line, and to keep Sheffield on since it’s his last time. But I’m pretty sure that A-Rod and Manny are not dropping off the ballot nor are they going to make major progress towards getting elected. You have to be pretty committed to the principle of “not playing PED cop” to decide that bumping them off for a year isn’t reasonable.

In any case, you’re going to have to figure something out for a little while. Unless some set of Helton, Wagner, Jones, Utley, and Mauer get elected in 2024 you’re going to have to bump someone for Ichiro (a lock if there ever was one) and CC Sabathia in 2025, plus anyone else you happen to like more than everyone else.

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Beltré, Utley, Mauer, Jones, Ramirez, Rodriguez, Sheffield, Helton and Jones are 9. If a voter is particularly partial to Abreu it’s 10. Wagner is easily the least qualified for me but I don’t consider “closer” or “reliever” a separate position from “pitcher”. Voters can pick whom ever they want of course

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  Ivan_Grushenko

He also voted for Beltrán.

Again, it’s his ballot but part of the problem with making up arbitrary rules about having to vote for certain players is that eventually guys you actually want to vote for get squeezed off.

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Strategic voting is problematic

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  Ivan_Grushenko

Analytics-heavy teams do view a “relief ace” as playing a different position from “starter,” to the point where Kenley Jansen is getting a higher AAV coming off a 1 WAR season than Tyler Anderson is coming off a 4 WAR season.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Yeah, Helton, Abreu, and Manny would be my immediate options to bump for Mauer.

speedy
3 years ago

I think there’s too much emphasis on cumulative WAR. Look at the hardware I say. How many gold gloves, silver sluggers, player of the months, MVP, and lastly all star appearances does he have? Did they get a bunch of either. Utley and Maier yes. Ryne Sandberg is the standard. Abreau’s resume is lacking the depth of awards.

Mahoney
3 years ago
Reply to  speedy

Only a handful of players have collected the trifecta of Rookie of the Year, All Star, and Gold Gloves in their careers. Of these, only a select few have also collected the ring trifecta of three or more World Series championship rings.

Derek Jeter and Buster Posey are in this select group of hardware-collecting monsters.

Also in this select group: Alfredo Griffin.

So, if you had to choose one or the other for the Hall of Fame, would it be Griffin or Abreu?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago

These sorts of questions like “who had the highest OBP in franchise history” are always kind of a letdown because it’s always some guy who played 120 years ago when the talent level was so uneven. So it’s nice to give some more recent guys a chance to shine.

This isn’t necessarily true for franchises who showed up after World War II. For example, the career leader for the Astros is Lance Berkman.
For the Padres, it is Jack Clark.
For the Mariners, it is Edgar Martinez.
For the Brewers, it is Prince Fielder.
For the Mets and Blue Jays, it is John Olerud.
And for the Royals it’s…Jose Offerman?!? What the…?

Mahoney
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Looking at Offerman a little closer, it actually makes a whole lot of sense:

— Offerman’s one carrying skill throughout his major league career was his ability to get on base – .360 career OBP, and .385 for the Royals (coinciding with his peak seasons).

— The Royals never have been big on high BB% hitters. During their heydays of the 70s and 80s they were probably typical in their amount of focus on OBP (aka little), but post Bill James/Moneyball they seem to have zigged when the baseball world was zagging on the value of drawing walks. So if you would have guessed George Brett or Mike Sweeney, their walk rates were actually a few % less than Offerman’s. Even Kevin Seitzer lags Offerman, with a smidge higher walk rate but lower batting average.

I remember Offerman very well as a Red Sox fan, because when Duquette signed him as a FA it actually seemed like a reasonable move to me, though it drew a lot of criticism at the time. Ironically, Offerman pulled a Larry Hisle and followed a great walk year with a strong first year post-FA, but then basically forgot to hit and play 2B in very short order.

Mahoney
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

For the Rangers, the highest OBP in team history belonged to Mike Hargrove.

I was trying to think of a good comp for Joe Mauer’s years as a first baseman. Hargrove is about as good as any (though Mauer was a lot quicker in the batter’s box).

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  Mahoney

Mauer was ridiculous through age 30 and then he basically just stopped hitting. I think that was also the last year he was even a part-time catcher as well. But it is weird, somehow he managed to keep his OBP up despite being essentially a league-average hitter overall. How anyone gets on base at a .360 clip and is roughly league average…

rosen380
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

FWIW- Mauer had a 134 wRC+ through age 30 and 103 afterward.

Among the 868 players all-time who had at least 3000 PA through age 30 and at least 1000 PA after, he has a lot of company:

Just looking at players recent enough to have a Fangraphs playerID <1000000 and who were at <150 wRC+ through age 30:
-57 Chris Davis
-39 Jason Bay
-37 Ryan Howard
-36 Jonathan Lucroy
-36 Jason Kendall
-36 Prince Fielder
-32 Nomar Gariaparra
-32 Chuck Knoblauch
-32 Carlos Gonzalez
-31 Joe Mauer
-31 Hanley Ramirez
-31 Todd Helton
-30 Ken Griffey Jr
-30 Adam Dunn
-29 Jeff Cirillo
-27 Andrew McCutchen
-27 Chase Utley [hey look, he dropped off almost as much as Mauer!]
-26 Vinny Castilla

And while I have the data– here are the ones who improved the most 31+ vs through age 30 (still using the “recent players” filter):
+36 Barry Bonds
+28 Bret Boone
+26 Adrian Beltre
+23 Sammy Sosa
+21 Jermaine Dye
+19 Luis Gonzalez
+17 Jeff Kent
+17 Ellis Burks
+16 Brady Anderson
+16 Torii Hunter

[NOTE: I did remove some players who were active in 2022 figuring that it might be unfair to include them here]

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  rosen380

Feel like you need to run that as 31-35, rather than just “Post-30,” to get an apples-to-apples comparison.

Utley had a 117 wRC+ from 31-35, then spent another 4 years hanging around as Veteran Presents in LA.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I wish we had Statcast sprint speed numbers from earlier in his career – his xSLG stayed in the .450 range during the 1B years, so I wonder if it was a matter of his doubles turning into singles.

fjtorres
3 years ago
Reply to  Mahoney

We’ll never see another like The Human Rain Delay™.
More’s the pity.

speedy
3 years ago

It’s hard to believe Don Baylor has a total WAR of 28.5. I say that as an Angel fan in comparison to Bobby Grinch. I would rank them in the same range in terms of great pro careers. But not sure I would say hall of famers. Whitaker too. Players like Schmidt or Brett or Carew or Bench you just knew were hall of famers. Name and face recognition that the fair weather fan would know.

Mahoney
3 years ago
Reply to  speedy

You’re a mean one, Mr. Speedy….. 😉

Mahoney
3 years ago

One cool feature I love about this site is the career WAR graphs option under the “Leaders” part of the top toolbar.

For fun, take a look at Beltre, Utley, and Mauer with this tool. If we use Beltre as a baseline for a no-doubt Hall of Famer, then the case for the others looks like this:

Utley – late start, but supreme peak stretch during his prime gets him in based on peak value.

Mauer – in the same ballpark as Beltre and Utley by the time he turned 30. But, as a catcher, the bar for success is at a lower WAR level (since you can’t catch anything near 150-162 games per year without a ton of cumulative wear and tear). So Mauer’s peak, during his catching years, was so ridiculously strong that he should be in the HOF based on that alone, forgetting about his post-injury years as a league-average first baseman.

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
3 years ago

Pickles Dillhoefer and Mike Prendergast mesmerized the Phillies with their far better names than Pete Alexander. If he had left it as Grover Cleveland Alexander it would have been more of contest

speedy
3 years ago

For me 3 other factors to consider for the Hall are leadership and respect among peers, which leads to the 3rd and that is part of winning teams(who then like their clubhouse presence) Players like Grich, Whitaker, Hershiser, Baylor, and Bob Boone have that. Boone only has a career 27 WAR but 7 gold gloves and 4 all stars. I would see these guys as HOFers before Abreau. Who was probably mostly described as “aloof”. In fact the Phillies went on their run with Utley and Howard and Rollins AFTER trading Abreau. If you read Phillies news, he was holding the team back that was one of the reasons they traded him to the Yankees for practically nothing.which is also why the Angels gave him a low-ball contract when no other teams really wanted him.

free-range turducken
3 years ago
Reply to  speedy

The Yankees went on their run AFTER Mattingly retired. Is he less of a winner than Luis Sojo?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  speedy

Look there are a lot of reasons to think Abreu might not be a Hall of Famer, you don’t have to go and make up stories about intangibles and “winners” to get there.

Nor do you need to repeat the mistakes that previous writers gave by just looking at their awards. Just because some dimwits decided to give multiple MVPs to Juan Gonzalez doesn’t mean you should take them seriously. Nor should you decide that the fan vote for the all star game is a deciding factor either.

There’s a whole conversation happening about each of these hall of fame candidates and Bob Boone has nothing to do with it.

Mahoney
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

To be fair, Boone was clearly a better player than Kevin Stocker, who was traded straight up for Abreu. So, by the transitive law…..

sandwiches4everMember since 2019
3 years ago
Reply to  speedy

Basing anything on Philly talk radio or Philly fan rumor-mongering is bad-faith argumentation. I mean, they ran Rolen right out of town, too…

free-range turducken
3 years ago

Am I the only one wanting the Twins and Angels to make one final offseason trade, so we can see Kyle Farmer and Jo Adell in the same lineup?

John Elway
3 years ago

Hay ho the dairy oh!!!!!

Just neighing.

hofisajoke
3 years ago

You know what would be fun? If hof voters pretended that everyone was clean outside of an obvious few.

But hof voters don’t even have that small amount of integrity, or Ortiz wouldn’t be in the hall. And does anyone thing Bagwell was clean? Lol

Mahoney
3 years ago
Reply to  hofisajoke

Bagwell did andro when it was legal, like many others. That doesn’t imply that he didn’t toe the line once MLB actually set it. So implying that Bagwell was unclean, simply based on his power numbers going up after leaving the cavernous confines of the Red Sox AA team, is kind of “cheating” on your integrity angle.

And, if you go dumpster diving on everyone based upon circumstantial evidence, who knows? If you look at every career renaissance along the lines of a Melvin Mora or Paul O’Neill or Casey Blake, you might miss someone like Manny Alexander who actually DID violate the rules at the time.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  Mahoney

I mean, Bagwell’s real power spike came in 1994…the same year that Finley and Caminiti had theirs.

Maybe it was a juiced ball year, but that was when Bagwell’s offensive profile transitioned from an Olerud/Hernandez type to a Frank Thomas one…and we don’t have a post-JDA sample size for him, like we do with Ortiz.

MichaelMember since 2016
3 years ago

David – some of the BA gents (maybe Josh and Carlos?) talked on their podcast after the futures game and said Burrows had best two pitch combo at the futures game. That kinda surprised me but after Priester interview maybe they were right

manormachine
3 years ago

Mauer had that shampoo commercial though. Automatic Hall of Fame Material.

maguroMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  manormachine

And the legendary PlayStation commercial. Well played, Mauer!

South DetroitMember since 2020
3 years ago

Love Maddux stats the are 🤯 here’s another I read: “Not counting batters who were intentionally walked, Greg Maddux faced 8,025 batters during the 1995-2003 seasons. Total pitches to those batters called balls? 8,006.” Averaged less than 1 called ball per batter over 9 seasons 😳 Who’s the closest comparison to Maddux today?

synco
3 years ago

This is an easy one. You drop Abreu and Jones, who both were great but aren’t Hall worthy, for the guys who are.

DH
3 years ago

“Manny Machado was born in July 1992 and has 1,597 career”

I didn’t realize machado had that many hits! I was curious, so I looked it up: machado has more career hits than mile trout, despite being a year younger!

In fact, Machado is the only active player who is younger and has more career hits than mike trout.

EonADSMember since 2024
3 years ago

The line I’ll draw with Manny and A-Rod is that both of them got caught more than once. One, fine. I can accept one positive test. Continuing to do so after you’ve already been caught? Nah. Not to mention A-Rod’s immediate reaction to getting caught a second time was to threaten to sue MLB, which is just childish. I can still justify voting for them if you have space, but not over less stained candidates.

Drop him for Utley or Mauer, both of whom played clean even when their careers were winding down.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  EonADS

A-Rod only got “caught” once – he just got leaked as part of the 2003 test.

By that standard, Manny got popped three times, haha.