Szymborski’s 2022 Bust Candidates: Hitters

© Rick Scuteri-USA TODAY Sports

Earlier this week, I ran down my favorite breakout candidates. Now it’s time for the darker side: the busts.

So what exactly is a bust? I don’t take it to mean that a player is awful or has no value. For me, a bust is a player who will step down a tier in performance or who is in a down cycle and has passed the window to get back to what they used to be. None of the players involved are literally without value, and some of them are still really good. But they’re all players I think will be well below their best, usually in a manner that makes me sad as a baseball fan.

Let’s start things off with a look at last year’s list of possible hitter busts and check how things worked out:

As you can see, I did much worse here than with the pitcher breakouts. I’m especially happy to have been wrong about Votto last year — my feeling was that there wasn’t another comeback left in him, but there was! I’m also quite pleased that Abreu didn’t slump back to league-average as I expected, staying a bit above instead, though well off his MVP performances. Lewis gets a pass since he was injured most of the year, and Grossman remained legitimately good, if below his 2020 rates.

Mike Trout, Los Angeles Angels

Two years ago, I wrote about Trout’s inevitable regression from baseball god to baseball mortal. Trout will almost certainly remain an awesome player in 2022, but I strongly suspect the days when there was an almost otherworldly character to his performance are now in the history books. In recent years, the time Trout has lost to varying injuries has increased, including a calf injury that cost him two-thirds of the 2021 season. He’s on the wrong side of 30 now, and repeated aches and pains have derailed many a superstar’s 30s.

Trout’s line looked just fine in his brief 2021, but there was a bit of trouble hiding at the edges. His impressive triple-slash was largely driven by a .456 BABIP, well above what even a superhuman like him generally does, and he showed some increasing contact issues. After little year-to-year variance in his contact numbers, last season his swing-and-miss rate increased by about 50% over its usual level, which is something that tends to be significant in fairly small samples.

He wouldn’t be a traditional bust, but given his status as quite possibly the best player most of us will ever see, him becoming just a normal superstar will feel almost devastating as a baseball fan. Unfortunately, I think there’s a good possibility that we’ve reached that point.

You Aren't a FanGraphs Member
It looks like you aren't yet a FanGraphs Member (or aren't logged in). We aren't mad, just disappointed. We get it. You want to read this article. But before we let you get back to it, we'd like to point out a few of the good reasons why you should become a Member. 1. Ad Free viewing! We won't bug you with this ad, or any other. 2. Unlimited articles! Non-Members only get to read 10 free articles a month. Members never get cut off. 3. Dark mode and Classic mode! 4. Custom player page dashboards! Choose the player cards you want, in the order you want them. 5. One-click data exports! Export our projections and leaderboards for your personal projects. 6. Remove the photos on the home page! (Honestly, this doesn't sound so great to us, but some people wanted it, and we like to give our Members what they want.) 7. Even more Steamer projections! We have handedness, percentile, and context neutral projections available for Members only. 8. Get FanGraphs Walk-Off, a customized year end review! Find out exactly how you used FanGraphs this year, and how that compares to other Members. Don't be a victim of FOMO. 9. A weekly mailbag column, exclusively for Members. 10. Help support FanGraphs and our entire staff! Our Members provide us with critical resources to improve the site and deliver new features! We hope you'll consider a Membership today, for yourself or as a gift! And we realize this has been an awfully long sales pitch, so we've also removed all the other ads in this article. We didn't want to overdo it. In case you didn't read all that, here's the short version. Membership includes:
✓Ad-free browsing
✓Unlimited FanGraphs & RotoGraphs articles
✓Historical & platoon projections
✓Leaderboard & player-page stat heatmaps
✓One-click data exports
✓Customizable player-page dashboards
✓Dark & Classic site modes
✓Weekly Members-only mailbag
✓FanGraphs Walk-Off, your year in review
✓Optional homepage photo removal
✓Gift articles to non-Members
✓Full postseason coverage
ZiPS Projection Percentiles – Mike Trout
Percentile BA OBP SLG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SB OPS+ WAR
90% .334 .482 .761 347 84 116 27 5 37 98 93 15 233 8.1
80% .308 .456 .687 351 81 108 23 4 34 90 89 12 207 6.9
70% .292 .440 .640 353 79 103 21 3 32 85 87 11 191 6.1
60% .284 .429 .610 356 78 101 20 3 30 81 84 10 180 5.6
50% .274 .418 .581 358 77 98 19 2 29 78 82 9 170 5.0
40% .267 .412 .563 359 75 96 18 2 28 75 81 8 163 4.7
30% .255 .398 .529 361 72 92 17 2 26 72 79 7 151 4.1
20% .245 .387 .504 363 70 89 17 1 25 67 77 6 142 3.5
10% .221 .361 .444 367 67 81 14 1 22 60 73 5 119 2.4

Christian Yelich, Milwaukee Brewers

Sadly, I don’t think the Yelich of old is coming back. ZiPS pegged him at 2.9 WAR using the playing time from the Depth Charts, and I think I’m actually taking the under on that. From 2017-19, Yelich was the fourth-best hitter in baseball against fastballs. Last year, he slugged under .400 against heaters and saw a large dip (3 mph) in his average exit velocity. Hitting the ball on the ground quite often, Yelich has essentially reverted back to the player he was pre-breakout, though without the value from being able to reliably cover center field. He’s off to a decent start so far, but I expect that he may be done as a star.

ZiPS Projection Percentiles – Christian Yelich
Percentile BA OBP SLG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SB OPS+ WAR
90% .312 .426 .607 430 90 134 30 5 29 88 82 25 172 5.6
80% .297 .408 .565 434 87 129 27 4 27 82 78 20 156 4.7
70% .286 .395 .526 437 85 125 24 3 25 78 75 18 143 4.0
60% .277 .383 .509 440 83 122 24 3 24 75 72 16 136 3.4
50% .268 .374 .481 441 80 118 22 3 22 70 71 15 126 2.8
40% .260 .364 .458 443 78 115 21 2 21 66 69 13 118 2.3
30% .251 .353 .439 446 76 112 20 2 20 64 66 11 110 1.8
20% .239 .341 .412 447 75 107 19 2 18 60 65 9 100 1.1
10% .224 .324 .382 450 73 101 18 1 17 55 62 8 88 0.3

Austin Riley, Atlanta Braves

Riley’s a good player, but I don’t think his baseline expectation should be anywhere near the 2021 performance that saw him come in seventh in NL MVP voting. The power is real and I don’t think that a lack of homers will be the problem. No, where there’s likely some significant regression coming is in the batting average department. Riley hit .303 in 2021, but without the contact skills that generally come with breaking the .300 line, especially in such a low-BA environment. In terms of overall contact rate, he was below league average.

Of the players with 300 plate appearances in the majors in 2021, no one else exceeded their ZiPS-modeled BABIP (zBABIP) by more than Riley did:

zBABIP Overachievers, 2021
Player BABIP zBABIP Difference
Austin Riley .368 .309 .059
Randy Arozarena .363 .307 .056
Wil Myers .333 .289 .044
Javier Báez .352 .310 .042
Patrick Wisdom .318 .277 .041
Rafael Ortega .349 .309 .040
Yuli Gurriel .336 .296 .040
Brandon Nimmo .366 .327 .039
Trevor Larnach .338 .299 .039
Tyler O’Neill .366 .330 .036
Trea Turner .362 .329 .033
Kevin Kiermaier .345 .313 .032
Phil Gosselin .322 .291 .031
Bryce Harper .359 .328 .031
Giancarlo Stanton .324 .293 .031

ZiPS Projection Percentiles – Austin Riley
Percentile BA OBP SLG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SB OPS+ WAR
90% .312 .381 .606 561 93 175 40 4 39 118 58 0 154 6.1
80% .297 .366 .563 563 89 167 36 3 36 110 56 0 139 5.0
70% .285 .353 .531 565 86 161 33 2 34 103 54 0 128 4.2
60% .277 .343 .508 567 84 157 31 2 32 100 52 0 120 3.5
50% .271 .337 .495 568 82 154 30 2 31 96 51 0 115 3.1
40% .263 .328 .470 570 79 150 29 1 29 91 49 0 106 2.5
30% .254 .318 .441 571 76 145 27 1 26 85 48 0 97 1.8
20% .243 .305 .414 573 73 139 24 1 24 79 46 0 87 1.0
10% .229 .288 .380 577 69 132 22 1 21 73 42 0 74 0.0

As I said above, Riley will continue to hit round-trippers, but I suspect that he’ll be more of a lower-BA slugger and not quite as competent an all-around player as he was in 2021.

Wil Myers, San Diego Padres

In the pantheon of Padres disappointments, Myers is fortunate in that he kind of gets to hide in the shadow of Eric Hosmer; he gets paid a lot less and has contributed a lot more. But that doesn’t mean that he’s not a problem for San Diego as a regular, given his relative lack of defensive value, and there were some warning signs in his numbers last year. After a surprise power outburst in the shortened 2020 season, during which he slugged 15 homers, Myers only bested that number by two over a full 162 last season. His velocity numbers all dropped off the table in 2021, while his contact numbers also declined.

Myers is a better player than Hosmer, but Hosmer may actually have more upside in that he still can hit the ball hard, though his approach results in him driving nearly everything into the ground like he’s a prototypical 1985 leadoff hitter. Without the power, the margin for error for Myers as a big leaguer is very slim; as soon as his bat slows just enough that he can’t punish a fastball, I think he’s done.

ZiPS Projection Percentiles – Wil Myers
Percentile BA OBP SLG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SB OPS+ WAR
90% .282 .367 .525 419 61 118 30 3 22 75 57 16 143 3.3
80% .264 .344 .476 424 59 112 26 2 20 70 52 13 124 2.2
70% .256 .334 .451 426 57 109 25 2 18 65 50 11 114 1.7
60% .248 .326 .440 427 55 106 24 2 18 63 49 10 109 1.3
50% .242 .317 .424 429 54 104 23 2 17 60 47 9 103 1.0
40% .237 .311 .405 430 53 102 22 1 16 58 46 8 96 0.6
30% .230 .303 .387 431 52 99 21 1 15 56 45 7 89 0.1
20% .222 .292 .374 433 51 96 19 1 15 53 43 6 83 -0.2
10% .211 .280 .345 435 50 92 17 1 13 48 41 4 72 -0.9

Matt Chapman, Toronto Blue Jays

Matt Chapman is still a valuable player, as he’ll likely remain a defensive superstar for at least a few more years. But I’m not very confident about his bat bouncing back much from its 2021 levels, let alone to what he showed in 2018-19, when I think he was one of the 10 best players in baseball. Along with Cody Bellinger — who I didn’t include here since I’ve already written a couple of pieces about his decline — Chapman has had one of the biggest drop-offs in both average exit velocity and hard-hit percentage. Even in a better hitters’ park than the Whatever It’s Called This Year Coliseum, I think we’re going to see further erosion in his home run count, and I don’t think he’s enough of a contact hitter to pump up the batting average to compensate. ZiPS does not see his spike in walk rate as corresponding with an actual improvement in his plate discipline stats; I suspect that Chapman’s struggles caused him to swap hits for walks.

ZiPS Projection Percentiles – Matt Chapman
Percentile BA OBP SLG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SB OPS+ WAR
90% .273 .373 .583 521 94 142 35 8 37 101 79 4 162 7.7
80% .256 .356 .535 523 90 134 30 7 34 92 77 3 145 6.5
70% .245 .343 .502 526 87 129 29 5 32 87 74 3 132 5.7
60% .236 .332 .476 529 85 125 27 5 30 84 71 2 122 4.9
50% .230 .324 .458 531 83 122 26 4 29 81 69 2 115 4.5
40% .224 .317 .442 532 82 119 24 4 28 77 68 2 109 4.0
30% .217 .309 .425 534 81 116 22 4 27 75 66 2 103 3.5
20% .207 .297 .401 536 78 111 21 4 25 70 64 1 93 2.8
10% .193 .279 .369 540 74 104 20 3 23 65 60 1 79 1.7

Frank Schwindel, Chicago Cubs

Schwindel was one of the best stories of the 2021 season. Most of us love a good rags-to-riches yarn, and Schwindel, a 29-year-old rookie, rose from being a future journeyman first baseman to a hitter with an OPS over 1.000 for the Chicago Cubs. He was legitimately excellent last season, and I don’t regret giving him a third-place vote in the NL Rookie of the Year race, one of two votes he received (Grant Brisbee of The Athletic was the other).

But all that aside, Schwindel’s résumé as a hitter is very, very short. Just two years before his 2021 debut, he was released after struggling for Triple-A Omaha. He went unclaimed on waivers, and when he signed with the Tigers, they put him down in Double-A, where he still didn’t hit, posting just a .700 OPS. Detroit only called him up to Toledo because Dustin Peterson hurt his elbow.

Two years later, he was enjoying his best minor league season, with a .992 OPS for Triple-A Las Vegas, when he was claimed on waivers by the Cubs. He got an opportunity because of the Anthony Rizzo trade almost by default, and the rest, as they say, is history.

I’d love if Schwindel was a starter for the Cubs for the next five years. But his breakout came at age 29, not 22, and one can’t ignore his minor league history. Here are the minor league translations I get for Schwindel prior to 2021.

Minor League Translations – Frank Schwindel
Year BA OBP SLG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB DR
2013 .200 .228 .275 64 265 23 53 8 0 4 20 6 34 0 -1.5
2014 .244 .264 .386 118 472 46 115 26 1 13 51 12 101 0 -3.6
2015 .224 .243 .344 123 451 38 101 31 1 7 44 8 116 0 4.0
2016 .245 .269 .397 120 461 51 113 19 0 17 54 13 103 1 -4.6
2017 .296 .313 .463 133 533 63 158 38 0 17 71 12 97 0 4.4
2018 .241 .283 .407 134 519 57 125 33 1 17 65 26 73 2 2.6
2019 .240 .270 .385 102 387 42 93 17 0 13 45 14 70 0 0.7

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and Schwindel’s going to have to continue to play at this level for a while before I’m confident he’s more than just a heartwarming tale of underdog triumph.

ZiPS Projection Percentiles – Frank Schwindel
Percentile BA OBP SLG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SB OPS+ WAR
90% .290 .333 .544 445 67 129 30 1 27 83 27 6 129 2.6
80% .282 .322 .510 447 64 126 28 1 24 79 25 4 118 1.9
70% .275 .314 .493 448 63 123 27 1 23 77 24 4 111 1.5
60% .272 .312 .482 448 62 122 26 1 22 74 24 2 108 1.3
50% .267 .305 .474 449 60 120 25 1 22 72 23 2 104 1.1
40% .265 .303 .463 449 60 119 24 1 21 70 23 2 101 0.9
30% .262 .299 .444 450 59 118 23 1 19 67 22 2 95 0.5
20% .256 .293 .424 450 57 115 22 0 18 63 22 2 89 0.1
10% .248 .282 .398 452 56 112 20 0 16 60 20 2 79 -0.4

Salvador Perez, Kansas City Royals

Perez is a barrel of fun, a player who ignores all that plate discipline mumbo-jumbo and goes out there in full “grip it ‘n’ rip it” mode. He pounds the cover off of the ball, something he did a shocking 48 times in 2021. But he also isn’t young anymore and is defensively limited, and while hitting homers is a good tool to have if you can only select one, it leaves him with a rather small margin of error as he ages. His contact rate took a big dip in 2021 despite his overall success, and that kind of aggression, while a lot of fun, leaves significant downside risk. Like Myers above, Perez is an aging fastball hitter, and he arguably has less to fall back on when he loses just a little bat speed.

ZiPS Projection Percentiles – Salvador Perez
Percentile BA OBP SLG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SB OPS+ WAR
90% .285 .326 .582 536 77 153 30 0 43 113 23 2 139 4.9
80% .276 .315 .555 537 73 148 27 0 41 107 22 1 130 4.2
70% .270 .308 .528 538 71 145 25 0 38 102 21 1 121 3.7
60% .264 .303 .511 538 68 142 25 0 36 97 21 1 116 3.3
50% .260 .300 .494 538 67 140 24 0 34 94 21 1 111 2.9
40% .256 .294 .490 539 66 138 24 0 34 92 20 1 108 2.7
30% .250 .289 .471 539 64 135 23 0 32 89 20 1 102 2.3
20% .244 .282 .452 540 62 132 22 0 30 84 19 0 95 1.8
10% .235 .272 .416 541 59 127 20 0 26 77 18 0 83 1.0

Gio Urshela, Minnesota Twins

I think the Twins are making a mistake in how they are using Urshela. His 2021 represented a massive drop-off from the prior two seasons, and there’s nothing obvious about his hitting profile that suggests it’s a fluke; both ZiPS and Statcast’s xStats saw his performance as perfectly consistent with his actual .267/.301/.419 line. His strikeout-to-walk ratio was a career-worst as well. Urshela’s best value, like that of players such as Jonathan Villar, is his ability to play a number of positions passably well. I remain unconvinced that Urshela isn’t actually the third-best realistic option at third for the Twins, behind both Luis Arraez and Jose Miranda. ZiPS is the most optimistic about Urshela, but I’m on the side of Steamer on this one.

ZiPS Projection Percentiles – Gio Urshela
Percentile BA OBP SLG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SB OPS+ WAR
90% .308 .352 .541 438 61 135 35 2 21 75 28 2 140 3.8
80% .298 .341 .513 439 59 131 33 2 19 68 27 2 130 3.2
70% .290 .331 .483 441 58 128 32 1 17 66 25 1 120 2.6
60% .286 .326 .469 441 56 126 31 1 16 63 25 1 115 2.3
50% .281 .320 .452 442 55 124 29 1 15 60 24 1 109 2.0
40% .278 .318 .450 442 54 123 29 1 15 59 24 1 108 1.9
30% .273 .311 .433 443 53 121 27 1 14 56 23 1 102 1.5
20% .266 .305 .418 443 51 118 26 1 13 54 23 1 96 1.2
10% .259 .297 .392 444 50 115 23 0 12 50 22 1 87 0.6




Dan Szymborski is a senior writer for FanGraphs and the developer of the ZiPS projection system. He was a writer for ESPN.com from 2010-2018, a regular guest on a number of radio shows and podcasts, and a voting BBWAA member. He also maintains a terrible Twitter account at @DSzymborski.

105 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
ianhamm
4 years ago

Never had a share of Trout on any of my teams. Looks like I’ll never have an “in his prime” Trout ever

BlueJaysBlackboard
4 years ago
Reply to  ianhamm

My girlfriend still makes fun of me like 5 years later because my draft was early in the morning, and I woke her up just to tell her I’d scored Trout with the first pick. It actually made me a little bit sad this year when he was almost still there for me at #16, thus signifying his mortality.

sogoodlooking
4 years ago
Reply to  ianhamm

Was I the only commenter who thought the Angels’ extension for Trout was foolish, simply in baseball (as opposed to commercial or sentimental) terms? I get that the alternatives were wretched, and we’re also talking about the Angels, who didn’t–before Ohtani’s ascension to baseball godhood–have much else going for them, but the chances of the contract being awful are fairly high. Too high, with $425 million at issue.

carterMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  sogoodlooking

If season ended today he would have the best wrc of his career

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago

I’m not sure that these predictions are busts, exactly.
1) Guys who have declined already who probably won’t bounce back (Yelich, Chapman)
2) Guys who played over their head for a year (Schwindel, Riley)
3) A guy who has already regressed back to his over-his-head stats from a couple of years ago (Urshela)

So in terms of guys who, based on the capsule, there’s a prediction for actual meaningful decline is Myers, Trout, and Perez (all of which I think I agree with). I think Schwindel and Riley are also reasonable predictions, despite them not really being busts. For Yelich, Chapman, and Urshela, I don’t really think it’s fair to predict something that has already happened.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I think if I were to pick guys who are regressing, I think I’d add Rafael Ortega and Harrison Bader to the bucket with Schwindel and Riley.

For my actual-busts, I think Wil Myers is a lock, and I’ll go with Perez too. To that, I’d add Yuli Gurriel.

olethrosMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I disagree on Bader, he’s still under 30 and hasn’t shown any indication of slowing down in the field/on the bases yet, and his offensive improvement is a direct result of surgery he had to remove nasal polyps in the 20-21 offseason. He’s been pretty open about how much better he can see the ball after the surgery due to the alleviation of allergy symptoms.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  olethros

I’ve gone back and forth on Bader. I think he’s a 90-95 wRC+ guy. He’s got some issues controlling the strike zone, which is the main reason he outperformed his xwOBA by something like 30 points last year. Based on his xwOBA, you’d think he would hit something like Paul deJong did last year, with a wRC+ in the 85-90 zone. But I also think his hard hit rate dropped by more than I would have expected, so I think he’s not going to fall quite that far.

Joe Joe
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Definitely see Gurriel and Brantley in the bust category if old guys who played better than expected last year count as busts.

carterMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  Joe Joe

Gurriel seems semi likely, Brantley has done the same thing for so long. Hitting coach son. But eventually everyone declines, so it doesn’t feel bold.

Another Old GuyMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I can’t see why your comment here is getting voted down, sadtrombone. Statcast had Bader’s xBA at .232 last year. The power and speed are real, but the .267 BA, not so much. I don’t see him as a bust, but I fully expect a regression toward the mean with his batting average. Time will tell if I am wrong, but I wasn’t paying the premium that seemed to be required in drafts for that .271 batting average.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago

I don’t know either. I think Bader is still potentially an everyday player because the defense is so fantastic. A low 90s-wRC+ would probably put him there, especially if the splits aren’t too dramatic, and since his xwOBA indicated he was probably more in the 85 area last year, I don’t think I’m being too harsh.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

For my super-unpopular picks that span both categories, I’ll go with two guys who, for different reasons, have a chance to make me look really stupid.

Joey Votto: He looked great last year, and his batted ball profile backs him up. He’s also 38, and was a lot closer to a league average hitter the last couple of years. I know betting against him and his ability to make adjustments seems like a bad idea, but I think last year was the outlier and his Steamer projection is closer to what he’ll do this year.

Randy Arozarena: On the other hand, we’ve got a guy who was a pretty useful player in 2021 and who crushed the playoffs back in 2020, and is still young enough to get better. But I just don’t buy that his improvement against breaking balls in 2021 was for real, and his hard hit rate went down a worrying amount. I think anyone who can spin a breaking ball is going to just feed it to him in 2022. I think he’s going to look a bit like Kyle Seager did last year, which would be pretty cool if he could play third base instead of left field, but he can’t.

Shirtless George Brett
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I think Salvy probably also belongs in the “played over their head for a year” bucket. If you ignore the pandemic season, he basically set career highs in everything in 2021. Some by a mile. At age 31.

It probably also worth pointing out that ZiPS’ 50% outcome for Perez (2.9 WAR) would essentially be tied for the best season of his career (3.3 in 2022 and 3.5 in 2013).

Last edited 4 years ago by Shirtless George Brett
rjm311Member since 2022
4 years ago

Have you considered that this hurts my feelings and that I know you’re only doing this to make me personally upset?

ScoreboardMember since 2016🏆 MVP
4 years ago

I agree with you on Urshela, his offensive surge corresponds exactly with the change in baseballs and he regressed when they were changed back.

I’m curious as to whether any of the projection systems explicitly factor in the ball given we now know the rough time frame when the sleeker one was used.

TwinPeaks
4 years ago
Reply to  Scoreboard

I’d like to agree with Dan about Urshela being the Twins 3rd best 3B, but I’m not sure he has seen Arraez attempt to field at this position. He’s brutal.

Last edited 4 years ago by TwinPeaks
fjtorres
4 years ago
Reply to  TwinPeaks

Wait a bit. Miranda isn’t far away.

murraygd13Member since 2019
4 years ago
Reply to  fjtorres

I think we see Miranda supplant Sano before anything. Sano has looked brutal so far.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  TwinPeaks

Is he a LF or DH only at this point? Is it possible he’d get better at either 2nd or 3rd if they’d stop moving him around?

TwinPeaks
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

In my view, he’s decent at 2b. He’s below-average but not really harming the team too much. He can get by in LF, too. Again, below-average but playable. He might improve at 3B, at least as far as botching routine plays, but he seems to lack the quick-twitch reactions and definitely lacks the long limbs you’d ideally like to see there.

MikeD
4 years ago
Reply to  Scoreboard

Urshela’s regression last year had more to do with him swinging at anything thrown up there by the pitcher, regardless if it was anywhere near the strike zone. He became overly agressive compared to the two prior years. That may be who he is now, but even a slight improvement in selectivity could lead to a bounce back.

Last edited 4 years ago by MikeD
yochuckieMember since 2019
4 years ago

I think we can face the reality of Mookie Betts having seen his best days. The big contract certainly isn’t going to help the motivational factor either.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  yochuckie

I don’t think Betts is short on motivation, but his problem last year was that his secondary skills (which have been elite basically every year he’s been in the majors) deserted him. That could be due to injury, or it could be that he’s getting older and his baserunning or fielding is starting to fade.

In terms of the hitting, I haven’t seen much of a decline there and he’ll probably keep positing .350 OBPs or higher with some power pretty much every year until he can’t stand up anymore.

Seamaholic
4 years ago
Reply to  yochuckie

Yeah Mookie would have been on my list too. He’s very clearly (to my eye anyway) lost a bit of bat speed and reaction time. He was coming from otherworldly bat speed, to be sure, but he’s definitely not contacting balls in the optimal zone like he used to, and seems to be surprised when it happens, which is a thing I’ve seen many times before in starting-to-age guys who relied on incredible quickness.

Last edited 4 years ago by Seamaholic
joelbarlow
4 years ago
Reply to  Seamaholic

another massive contract that I’m sure featured a lot of tables on this site and elsewhere saying ‘great deal’ etc etc . i’m glad a player got paid but we go from celebrating these contracts to questioning them very quick

carterMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  joelbarlow

Seems to have benefited from the Green Monster his whole career which obviously he doesn’t have anymore. I remember back when a website counted “lucky hrs” he had like 12 when second had like 5. Whether or not that was a real stat, who knows. But it sort of aligned with my thinking, he got the most out of himself for the ballpark he was in. He is a great player, but he is tiny.

hombremomento
4 years ago

Trout 90th percentile 233 OPS+???

Jimmy DuganMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  Dan Szymborski

The disparity between the rate stat projections and the WAR projections might appear disingenuous. For example, while Trout might be projected for ~450 PAs, if he were to play a full season (a 90% playing time projection) and reach a 233 OPS+ (a 90% rate production projection), he would far exceed 8.1 WAR

I feel like with Trout, showing a 50% rate projection for a 170 OPS+ (which makes sense because it’s just below his career average, and well below his per PA production over the last few years) is showing that he’s just as good as he has been. But the “low” WAR projection is just a function of assuming he won’t play a full season.

If Trout is a “Bust” under this criteria, then wouldn’t it apply to lots of other guys as well?

Buxton,
Rendon,
Kershaw
DeGrom
Tatis
Acuna
Bregman
etc.

hombremomento
4 years ago
Reply to  hombremomento

Oh I just saw the Riley 90th percentile 25 stolen bases so I realize these are very much far out

proiste
4 years ago
Reply to  hombremomento

90% percentile is very high!

rhswanzey
4 years ago

2.4 WAR as your 10th percentile projection. That’s nuts. Do you remember the highest 10th percentile you’ve ever projected across ZiPS history?

Mahoney
4 years ago
Reply to  rhswanzey

Lol, Trout’s 10th percentile projection > Keston Hiura’s 90th percentile projection!

Mahoney
4 years ago

Trout’s range of projections for 2022 (1) feels sorta blasphemous and (2) also looks a lot like the range of expectations for Tatis Jr.

MaxFreeze7
4 years ago

Are those SB projections for Riley wrong? They have to be, right?

Carson Kahla
4 years ago

I think I just fundamentally disagree with your Trout evaluation, mainly his ABs. His injury history is blown out of proportion, he had 600 and 604 PAs in 18/19 and played 53 games of the shortened season. Last year was bad but it was the first real injury in his career at age 30!

No he won’t play 162, or even 150. But this is expecting him to be injury prone which just hasn’t been the case throughout his career.

dl80Member since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  Carson Kahla

Exactly. He’s been at 600+ PA every normal year but 2017 until last year, and even then he got 500.

130 games of Trout is still an 8 win player.

Seamaholic
4 years ago
Reply to  Carson Kahla

It’s more than the injury history, which is noted in the piece. He’s starting to miss pitches he used to routinely hammer. Just starting, to be sure, and that doesn’t mean he can’t have another MVP season. But it’s there. You’re fooling yourself if you don’t see it. Still a great player and worth every penny of the contract, but time comes for everyone, and it comes for guys who rely on hand and foot speed first.

carterMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  Seamaholic

I am more concerned about him missing pitches he used to hammer. I think he sort of over compensated for struggling with high pitches that now he is swinging and missing low balls he used to hit. Who knows. His results last year were amazing and it’s only been a few games.

Demiurge
4 years ago
Reply to  Carson Kahla

I was going to say exactly the same thing. It seems like Fangraphs staff as a whole has adopted this narrative over the last year. One significant injury in over 10 years? Really? That’s predictive? It’s weird.

joelbarlow
4 years ago
Reply to  Demiurge

he hasn’t played more than 140 games since 2016

AnonMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  joelbarlow

This.

Yes he topped 600 PA in 18/19 but he’s been missing games, sometimes lots of games, with little nagging stuff for quite awhile now.

Carson Kahla
4 years ago
Reply to  Anon

While still reaching 600 PAs routinely, now they’re projecting him for less than 400 ABs. Maybe I’m just an optimist tho, just one man’s opinion.

sogoodlooking
4 years ago
Reply to  Demiurge

He’s getting old. That is what’s predictive.

edwinblumeMember since 2016
4 years ago

Not relevant to being a bust, but Myers is being paid more this year than Hosmer

Seamaholic
4 years ago

Hot take of the day: I actually think prime Soto is better (at least as a hitter) than prime Trout.

Mahoney
4 years ago
Reply to  Seamaholic

If he still hasn’t hit his prime as a hitter, Soto could end up becoming a better hitter than prime Trout.

Shirtless Bartolo Colon
4 years ago
Reply to  Seamaholic

A prime rib is better than both of them.

Jimmy DuganMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  Seamaholic

Soto Age 19-22:
464 GP, 2003 PA, 156 wRC+

Trout Age 19-22:
493 GP, 2195 PA, 165 wRC+

Soto is well behind Trout’s pace, what is there to indicate that he will surpass same-age Trout at some point?

MRDXolMember since 2021
4 years ago

Who is the heir to Trout’s crown as best player in baseball? Soto, (healthy) Tatis, and Robert are probably my top 3 choices there

Mahoney
4 years ago
Reply to  MRDXol

Franco will likely be the next undisputed best player in baseball. The three guys you mention, plus Franco and Acuna, might have an argument for best in baseball at any time in the transition from the Trout era to the Franco era.

Jason BMember since 2017
4 years ago
Reply to  Mahoney

Agree with tz – I think those five altogether are the “next tier” that immediately comes to mind, with Vlad Jr just outside

Mahoney
4 years ago
Reply to  Jason B

Of course, this whole list becomes moot if Ohtani finds another gear at the plate or on the mound 😉

solthecutter
4 years ago
Reply to  Mahoney

Ohtani is already 27 that’s why he’s not on this list

solthecutter
4 years ago
Reply to  Mahoney

I can’t really see Wander Franco being the best player in baseball at any point. Sure, he’s an extremely advanced hitter at his age and he’s got a lot of tools but does he have 30+ HR power? The projections seem to agree with this – Soto and Tatis are projected for 7+ WAR seasons with like .970 OPS while Franco is like a 5 WAR player. Now 5 wins from a 20yo is tremendous and he probably will have a great shot at a HOF career. But I just don’t see the perrenial MVP that everyone seems to see him as. I think a guy like Bo Bichette who is a capable SS with excellent power has a higher ceiling than Franco.

Mahoney
4 years ago
Reply to  solthecutter

I’ll say this – we shouldn’t overlook Bichette, if he can hit his potential on defense the way Soto is beginning to show signs of.

Jason BMember since 2017
4 years ago
Reply to  Mahoney

Bo also has 80-grade hair which can’t be overlooked

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  solthecutter

Franco’s got a decent chance for the Hall of Fame simply because he got started so early, and he’s already pretty good. He reminds me a bit of Jeter, who was a star basically every year between age 24 and 32 but who only had one year where you might think he was the best player in MLB (1999). Much of this is that like Jeter, he’s also going to be hit-over-power. But, like, he’s 21 years old and I’m comping him to a guy who averaged something like 5.75 fWAR over an 8 year period, and he might be a better fielder than Jeter too. I think he’s got a very, very good chance of being somewhere in between the 3rd and 6th best player in baseball for the better part of a decade.

MikeD
4 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

What made Jeter great was he was very good, but also very healthy. Health consistently gets underrated.

MRDXolMember since 2021
4 years ago
Reply to  Mahoney

yeah i completely forgot about Franco somehow lol. Acuña I am a little scared about the knee, and also that he’s probably corner OF only now. I’d throw buxton in but I tend to think he’s gonna remain extraordinarily volatile rather than settle into an all-world player

miltonfriedman
4 years ago
Reply to  MRDXol

He will be wearing a tigers uniform

sadtromboneMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  MRDXol

Steven Kwan.

jk, it’s probably gonna be Soto or Acuna (or Tatis or Buxton if they’re healthy, which they probably won’t be)

3cardmontyMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  MRDXol

Give me Buxton over Robert

carterMember since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  3cardmonty

Buxton could put up an absurd season. But I agree that Robert has a good shot at being right there. Of course if Vlad continues to hit like this he could be the best player in the game even with poor defense

kid
4 years ago
Reply to  MRDXol

My list:
1) Vlad Jr. (23) – He’ll roll out of bed and be a 150 wRC+ bat for the next decade, while annually competing for the triple crown. Yeah, 1B is boring… so what?
2) Soto (23) – Basically a left-handed Vlad with better plate discipline and just a tickle less raw power. Still a marvelous hitter.
3) Acuna (25) – He’ll go 50/30 one of these years but there must be a demerit for suffering a major lower-body injury. I suspect the “hair on fire” game speed will cost him regular game time.
4) Tatis (23) – Probably the single most mesmerizing player to take the field since Alex Rodriguez; the raw barreling ability, the blinding speed. But that labrum.. oh, that labrum. Sooner or later, he’ll lose a season+ because of the shoulder, and upon returning he will face the attendant questions about whether the atomic bat Is still there.
5) Luis Robert (24) – Has quietly thrown up 5.0 WAR in his first 128 games. Another guy who needs to take care of his body, but he’s got 80-90% of the Acuna package.
6) Wander Franco (21) – I adore Wander, but a realistic assessment of his abilities renders him more of a top-20 caliber player than a top-5 player. He’ll routinely challenge for the batting title, but he hits the ball on the ground a lot, and lacks plus natural power. If he learns to loft the ball, he could become Jose Ramirez. As is, he’s prime Michael Brantley who plays very good defense at Short.

dl80Member since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  kid

I think Robert has a chance to be Andruw Jones 2.0.

marianosz
4 years ago
Reply to  dl80

Wow. That level of defense?

miltonfriedman
4 years ago

Only a matter of time before Yelich gets busted.

casey jMember since 2019
4 years ago
Reply to  miltonfriedman

For what?

Seamaholic
4 years ago
Reply to  casey j

There are lots of stories about CY and sign stealing (or other assorted versions of cheating). I believe Yu Darvish out and out accused him of it once. No evidence though. I will say circumstantially his breakout was a wee bit suspicious, but just a bit, and as I say, there’s no evidence. Best really not to bring it up until there is.

dl80Member since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  Seamaholic

His power breakout was from the changed ball. He’s just returned to what he used to be.

WebsMember since 2020
4 years ago

I’ve been watching a lot of Brewers games this year. In the outfield, Yelich looks like that kid who’s scared of the ball and lets it bounce in front of him to make it easier to field.

casey jMember since 2019
4 years ago
Reply to  Webs

The Brewers haven’t played a lot of games this year.

Last edited 4 years ago by casey j
Lanidrac
4 years ago

Assuming we’re not counting Bonds nor Clemens, I still have to rank Albert Pujols over Mike Trout as the best player I’ve ever seen.

joelbarlow
4 years ago
Reply to  Lanidrac

Bonds and its not close

Dmjn53
4 years ago
Reply to  Lanidrac

Yea I’ll take a 180 wRC+ CF over a 180 wRC+ 1B every day of the week

Runaway ToasterMember since 2016🏆 MVP
4 years ago
Reply to  Lanidrac

At least by fWAR, Beltre and Chipper are a lot closer to Pujols than you think… Plus A-Rod was a player. A douchy one, but a player.

Art Fay
4 years ago

Um have you asked Mike Trout what he thinks about your little yarn? Specifically if he thinks about a 1.100 OPS 9 WAR season in your face?
😂

Smiling PolitelyMember since 2018
4 years ago

Watching Arraez play third this year (in a SSS, ofc), I’m not sure that Dan isn’t a better option at 3B than he is. Urshela is gonna be needed in lots of places.

tung_twista
4 years ago

Salvador Perez had seven full-time seasons.
His HR numbers are 48-27-27-22-21-17-13. 
There is no way his 10% outcome is 26 HR. 

gottaIch116Member since 2020
4 years ago

I thought Mike Trout made a conscious decision, last season, to pull the ball more and therefore he was trading contact for power?

Please tell me we are not post peak Trout.

Last edited 4 years ago by gottaIch116
Poster To Be Named LaterMember since 2020
4 years ago

Dan,

You are the man, and you continue to push some of the best baseball content on the internet. We appreciate you!

Angelsjunky
4 years ago

Some already addressed the issue of Trout’s injury history. I personally think there’s a bit of a middle ground – he’s been mostly healthy, with only two significant injuries, one in 2017 and one in 2021, but he also has had a bunch of nagging minor injuries. I see no reason why he shouldn’t be expected to play in ~140 games a season.

What I think your analysis of Trout misses is that he’s constantly adjusting his approach, and always addressing weak-spots. Yes, the BABIP was inflated, but as someone said, he changed his approach to more contact, presumably due to his Launch Angle inflation over the previous few years, that Tony Blengino talked about a couple years ago. Maybe Trout would rather hit .300 with 35-40 HR than .280 with 45 HR.

Either way, I think the your analysis may be a bit premature. Not saying you’re absolutely wrong, just that you’re jumping the gun a bit. If anyone deserves the benefit of the doubt, it is Trout, especially after changing his approach several times in his career. Plus, the fact that the last two years has reduced his body’s wear-and-tear, so while you say he’s “on the wrong side of 30,” you could also argue that he’s only played half a season over the last two years (age 28-29), and then has the wear-and-tear he would have had in 2020, at 28 years old.

Dmjn53
4 years ago

I feel like that’s actually a very rosy range of outcomes for Perez. His 30% outcome would be his 2nd highest WAR since 2013

MikeD
4 years ago

Great stuff, although Trout will still be the best player in baseball at the end of 2022.

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
4 years ago

Joey Gallo strikes me as someone who is liable to disappoint. Basically anyone with giant K% can crater all of a sudden.

hughduffy
4 years ago

Dan, two questions about ZiPS-modeled BABIP (zBABIP):
1. Does zBABIP account for when the defense is shifted?
2. Does zBABIP account for whether a hitter changes the direction balls are hit when the defense is shifted?

Having watched Austin Riley all season in 2021, when defenses were shifting against him, he tried to go opposite field sometimes. He’s already had two opposite field singles this year, groundball singles the other way against a shifted defense. I haven’t done a serious study of this other than confirming that he wasn’t trying to pull everything in 2021, but I think Riley hitting against the shift was part of his BABIP success.

E-Dub
4 years ago
Reply to  hughduffy

The more I sat with it, the more nebulous the Riley pick feels. He’s a swing change guy who’s also still developing in terms of swing choices. He’s more of a moving target than more established bats.

Predicting a BABiP regression is perfectly reasonable, but to what? If he’s a “Low-BA” hitter what is low? I don’t think a failure to hit .300 again would somehow constitute a bust. He could lose 30 points of AVG and still be a .270 30 homer bat, which would be a tremendous success imo.

kid
4 years ago

Some day, we need to get our best scientists working on figuring out what happened to Cody Bellinger, Christian Yelich and Gleyber Torres after the 2019 season. All 3 were early/mid 20s, peaks of their powers… then *poof*… completely fell off the ledge and have never recovered.

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
4 years ago
Reply to  kid

Christian Yelich got hurt, Gleyber Torres moved to SS, and Cody Bellinger remembered he was related to Clay Bellinger

dl80Member since 2020
4 years ago
Reply to  kid

The ball changed

sogoodlooking
4 years ago
Reply to  kid

Yelich turned 28. For some guys that’s the equivalent of 30, 31. In the era of fast, faster, fastest pitching, the end can come fast. The sort of tweaks you and I might barely notice (assuming you’re not a professional athlete) can end a career or turn a star into a mediocrity

j_woz12
4 years ago

Thanks, Dan. Always interesting stuff! You’ve probably went in depth on this, and if so, no need to respond, but can you explain how we’re supposed to use the ZIPs Projection Percentiles? I’m not sure if we should be looking best case scenario (90%), worst case (10%) or somewhere in the middle as the most likely result (and guessing that where things fall can vary due to a number of factors).

Momus
4 years ago

Speaking as a Jays fan, if we can get that 50th percentile projection from Chapman, I will be thrilled. Heck, even the 30th and 40th look okay.

Big MikeMember since 2016
4 years ago

Your zBABIP Overachievers chart has me worried about the second player on there – Randy Arozarena. I was watching the Rays game last night, and he just doesn’t look like a major league player at the plate sometimes. He was offering at sliders early in the count that started outside and kept going, and then throwing the bat into the zone just to make contact on weak fly balls. I know it’s early, but he’s chasing at 40% of balls and hasn’t got a walk on the season, and only one double with no steals. I think he could wind up a big bust. Your thoughts?

Kevbot034
4 years ago

Yeah, Urshella is an easy regression candidate. He was already looking worse each year since his random explosion in 19 and he’s had quite a few injury issues as well. He’s who I most expected on this list and here he is.

Shirtless George Brett
4 years ago

Kind of confused on the Perez call. He almost certainly wont do what he did last year but ZIPS says his 50% outcome is 111 wRC+ and 2.9 WAR. That would be better than basically every season he has ever had with 2021 and 2013 being the only exceptions.

How is that a bust?

DanBC
4 years ago

Chapman was hurt last year. Expect him to return to good production levels, thanks to good health, and a very productive lineup around him

miltonfriedman
4 years ago

Add Trevor Story. Giving a guy with a low 700 non coors OPS that deal? lol