The 2019 FanGraphs Franchise Player Draft: Picks 1-15
Yesterday, we released the results of the back half of the 2019 FanGraphs Franchise Player Draft. As a reminder, the idea behind the exercise is simple: throwing out existing contracts, teams, and other real life sundry, which player would you most want to build a baseball franchise around if you were starting from scratch? Today, we offer picks 1-15 for your amusement and derision. Enjoy!
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Devan Fink, Pick 1: Mike Trout, Los Angeles Angels
There’s no easier pick than Mike Trout at No. 1. He’s the only player in the league who guarantees elite production every year. Every time we think we’ve found someone better — whether it be Bryce Harper, Mookie Betts, Christian Yelich, or Cody Bellinger — Trout comes back to remind us why he reigns supreme.
Since 2005, no player has produced more WAR than Trout’s 71.0. He didn’t even debut until 2011. He has posted eight straight seasons with a wRC+ of 167 or better. He’s rated out as a positive defender in all but two seasons. Heck, even his baserunning has been worth 4.5 runs this year, eighth-best in the majors.
Perhaps the only downside, if you want to call it that, is Trout’s age. Position players tend to peak around 28, and Trout is 27. We don’t know how gracefully he will decline, but even at 70 or 80 percent of his current talent level, Trout would be one of the best. Age should not deter me.
Mike Trout is the best player of this generation. He could go down as the best player in baseball history. Wanting to start my team with anyone else would be foolish.
Eric Longenhagen, Pick 2: Francisco Lindor, Cleveland Indians
I assumed Trout would be off the board at No. 1, so my mix for this selection was Lindor, Mookie Betts (who I’d have announced as a second baseman), and Alex Bregman. Frankie is fourth among hitters in WAR since 2016 and would probably be third, ahead of Christian Yelich, had he not missed a few weeks this year with a calf and then ankle injury. He’s an elite athlete and defender at a premium position, and a dynamic offensive player who has grown into more power than even those who were most enthused about his future anticipated he would while he was a prospect. A switch-hitter with a 116 wRC+ from the left side and a 128 wRC+ from the right side, Lindor is also matchup-proof in an age when teams are more intelligently and proactively attacking hitters with relievers.
He also has the emotional maturity and easy-going affability suited to being a franchise’s cultural cornerstone, both in the clubhouse and off the field. His well-known, infectious smile and effervescence are great to be around, but he’s also an intense, vocal leader when he needs to be and has been willing to confront veterans about their play. Is that as important as his talent? No, but when everyone at the top of this draft is an elite talent, it’s a separator.
Rian Watt, Pick 3: Alex Bregman, Houston Astros
If Trout had been on the board at three, I’d have taken Trout. But Bregman would have been my choice even if I’d had Eric’s slot at two, as much as I love Lindor and Cody Bellinger (the other two players I considered here). That’s because Alex Bregman is 25 years old, already does just about everything right on the baseball field, and is still getting better. After hitting 31 homers across 700 or so plate appearances last year, he already has 23 in half that many trips to the plate so far this season. Last year, he was already one of the few players in baseball to walk more than he struck out (just four qualified players met that standard last year) and this year he’s bumped his walk rate more than three points while holding his strikeout rate basically steady. He’s good on the bases, and he’s terrific with the glove at third. He’s bilingual, a rock in the clubhouse, and already a world champion. Besides Trout, who is the best baseball player most of us will ever see, there’s nobody I’d want more to start a franchise with than Bregman.
Brendan Gawlowski, Pick 4: Cody Bellinger, Los Angeles Dodgers
This was not an easy decision. To the consternation of my friends, I interrupted a good half hour of our trip pinging back and forth between FanGraphs and Baseball Savant, making sure I took the right guy here. Would I be overreacting to select Cody Bellinger after a hot three months? To pass over Mookie Betts after his (relatively) slow start? Isn’t Christian Yelich the safe option? Would this blurb be more interesting if I picked Ohtani?
Ultimately, it came down to the swing. In an era characterized by uppercut hacks, Bellinger’s steep and swift cut still stands out for its unapologetic force. It’s easy to imagine how, in trusted hands, that swing could produce a 40-homer season or three. It is not, however, the measured and efficient stroke we associate with the game’s most judicious hitters. And yet Bellinger has walked more than he’s struck out this season. Anyone who can do this kind of damage, with that kind of discipline, must be pretty special. To top it all off, he’s also just 23 and he plays a capable center field. He is a remarkable talent, and a guy I feel comfortable drafting No. 4 overall.
Audrey Stark, Pick 5: Anthony Rendon, Washington Nationals
When selecting a franchise player, I wanted a “veteran” with consistently above-average play in the field and at the plate. It is important for this player to have experience so they can take on a leadership role in the clubhouse, but also have enough playing years left to be a cornerstone for this new ballclub over the next several seasons. At the end of the day, I felt like Anthony Rendon exemplifies all of those things.
Since the beginning of the 2017 season, his WAR is fourth in all of baseball. He has 144 wRC+ over that period and a 23.6 defensive rating. Rendon is a consistent hitter and an above-average third baseman. He is also a low-key, unproblematic person. Rendon seems like a genuinely good human, in addition to being a great baseball player. He is involved in the Nationals’ charity organization and his biggest scandal was cutting off his hair. I like watching him play; that’s the sort of person I’d like to build a team around.
Jason Martinez, Pick 6: Fernando Tatis Jr., San Diego Padres
Through his first 55 games as a big leaguer, Tatis has been a human highlight-reel with a collection of amazing baserunning and defensive feats. Even as he skyrocketed up the prospect rankings in recent years, there were some concerns that he wouldn’t be able to stick at shortstop long-term. Now, it would be difficult to tell which defender on the left side of the Padres’ infield is nicknamed “El Ministro de Defensa” and which one was in Double-A this time last season. While Manny Machado has been as good as advertised at the hot corner, it’s Tatis who seems to steal the show on a regular basis.
And the kid can hit, too. At his current pace, the 20-year-old would have 135 runs, 27 doubles, 15 triples, 41 home runs, 97 RBI, and 38 stolen bases over his first 162 games. Which shortstops have put up numbers that even remotely resemble those? A few players come to mind, all amongst the greatest to ever step foot on a baseball diamond.
There’s no question that we’re witnessing a rare five-tool shortstop in action. What makes Tatis stand out even more, however, are the incredible baseball instincts that enhance each one of those tools. It’s a big part of why he can be so good at such a young age, and why he’s the kind of player who you would build your franchise around.
Sung Min Kim, Pick 7: Christian Yelich, Milwaukee Brewers
If I were start a new franchise, there aren’t a lot of players I’d want more than the 27-year-old Christian Yelich. Sometimes, you don’t have to overthink it. Hitting for a 180 wRC+ and slashing .329/.433/.707 with 31 home runs through 82 games, Yelich is one of the bona-fide superstars of major league baseball. While his defense is not all that elite, his bat has amassed enough value to boast a 5.1 WAR, third-best among all positional players. The ridiculous thing about Yelich is that he’s taken steps to be a more dangerous hitter after his 2018 MVP campaign. He’s hitting fewer grounders (2.20 GB/FB compared to 1.11) while lifting the ball more (23.5 FB% to 38.7%), which has resulted in a higher home run rate despite a lower HR/FB rate (35.0% vs. 34.1%). What he’s doing right now is so ridiculous that you couldn’t possibly expect him to keep up this pace for the rest of the season or the next few years … unless he does. Even if things normalize a bit, he’d still be a 5-WAR player who has a lot of good years left in the tank.
Eli Ben-Porat, Pick 8: Wander Franco, Tampa Bay Rays
Baseball’s current economic environment necessitates accumulating surplus value by leveraging cost controlled years. Given the recent trend of team-friendly deals, especially those that included free-agent years, it seemed imperative to build a franchise around one of these players. Players who fit that mold (and were available at No. 8) were Wander Franco, Ronald Acuna, Gleyber Torres, Juan Soto, and Vlad Jr.
No prospect is a sure thing, but prospects who hit for power and don’t strike out are a very rare breed. Wander Franco, despite being extremely young for his level, has walked 50% more than he’s struck out, all while hitting for power and getting on base at a high clip. To top off his flawless profile, he also looks likely to stick at shortstop. Vlad Jr. shares a lot of the same traits as Franco, but he’s likely to be a liability on defense, much like Juan Soto.
The decision came down to Franco, Torres, and Acuna, all players who have shown they can play up the middle. They’re all young, but at 18, Franco is the youngest, a cornerstone I can build around for years to come.
Nick Pollack, Pick 9: Mookie Betts, Boston Red Sox
Mookie Betts was an easy choice and doesn’t require much defending. He’s a blend of offensive and defensive excellence, putting up 33.6 WAR in four-and-a-half seasons worth of games. Even in 2019’s “down” first half, Betts has still posted a 124 wRC+ as he holds a -2% strikeout-to-walk ratio, seemingly on the precipice of a return to the elites in the second half. Oh, and his glove is still ridiculously good in the outfield.
And on top of all his on-the-field talents, a franchise player needs to be a leader. A player who builds a clubhouse, displays maturity to steer new members in the right direction, a face of an organization who forces outsiders to flock to what you’re selling. Betts carries this without question, providing a steady rock to set the proper tone to lead a team.
At a young age of 26-years-old, Betts is an excellent combination of veteran leadership and elite performance while being highly capable of handling himself as the leader of a team. Honestly, who wouldn’t want Mookie Betts?
Tony Wolfe, Pick 10: Ronald Acuna Jr., Atlanta Braves
I strongly considered Vladimir Guerrero Jr. here because of the enormous upside that comes with his bat and his incredibly young age. Then I remembered Ronald Acuna Jr. is just one year older than Vlad, has almost as much upside offensively, and has already amassed nearly 7.0 WAR in 201 big league games. Acuna, 21, currently sits in the 95th percentile in both sprint speed and xwOBA, and has made some strides as a defender in center field. If we factored in team control, salaries, and all of that into this draft, Acuna’s legitimately gross contract might make him the No. 1 overall pick. But even after that’s set aside, it’s difficult for me to imagine a better player to build around than the center fielder, barely of legal drinking age, who already hits the ball harder than almost anyone else, runs faster than almost anyone else, and walks 10 percent of the time.
Mike Podhorzer, Pick 11: Manny Machado, San Diego Padres
I immediately eliminated pitchers from consideration, as their skills change more rapidly and injuries seemingly derail their performances more frequently than hitters. I wanted a hitter who could add defensive value, in addition to being highly productive at the plate, and of course, is young enough to still be in his prime. It’s easy to forget that Manny Machado just turned 27, as it feels like he has been around forever. It’s true that he hasn’t been absolutely elite offensively during his career, but he has still been pretty darn good (.349 wOBA and 120 wRC+). While he hasn’t performed nearly as well with the glove at shortstop as at third base, his ability to play two premium positions competently (and he has been a fantastic third baseman throughout his career) provides valuable roster flexibility. With strong contributions from both sides of the field, he’s clearly a guy to build a club around.
Dylan Higgins, Pick 12: Shohei Ohtani, Los Angeles Angels
I won’t insist that Shohei Ohtani is the most talented baseball player on the planet, but I’m willing to suggest it. Do you want someone that hits the ball very hard? What about someone who runs very fast? An ace pitcher should certainly be near the top of your list. Ohtani checks every box, having already proven to be outstanding at the plate and on the mound, and he hasn’t even had the opportunity to show what he could do in the field.
Baseball has had several multi-sport stars in the century since it last saw a legitimate two-way legend. Bo Jackson was absolutely incredible, but he wasn’t especially productive (7.7 WAR in 694 games across seven seasons). Ohtani is already over halfway there (4.1 WAR) after 1 1/2 years, and that’s including a Tommy John surgery and no defense. I will sell so many Sho Knows t-shirts.
Ohtani is a superstar on both sides of the ball and both sides of the globe, and he hasn’t come close to reaching his potential. He’s just 25, he can already do everything, and he isn’t even healthy. I am in love with the face of my new franchise at pick No. 12.
David Laurila, Pick 13: Matt Chapman, Oakland Athletics
When I learned we would be doing this draft, one of my first thoughts was “If he’s available, I’m taking Fernando Tatis Jr.” The opportunity never presented itself — he was long gone by the time my pick rolled around — so I defaulted to Rafael Devers, who I liken to a young David Ortiz. Then I changed my mind. Is there a more-under-appreciated superstar in the game of baseball than Matt Chapman? Superstar? Yes, it is reasonable to place that tag on the 26-year-old Oakland Athletics third baseman.
Brooks Robinson is in the Hall of Fame because he was an all-time great defender at the hot corner, as well as a steady, productive hitter. Chapman is on track to be just that. His glove is as good as it gets, while his offensive numbers — don’t forget that he plays his home games in Oakland — are quietly superb. He’s on pace to hit 40 home runs this year, and his wOBA and wRC+ since the start of last season are .369 and 136 respectively. He’s been worth 10 WAR over that same period. Matt Chapman is the type of player you can build a team around.
Paul Sporer, Pick 14: Gleyber Torres, New York Yankees
Torres is a 22-year old, up the middle infielder who showed that his debut effort (120 wRC+) was not only legit but may have undersold his premium bat. He takes a 130 mark into the second half and was rightfully named to his first All-Star game. Torres doesn’t have any 70s on his scouting report but rather a collection of 50-60 grade tools that add up to elite upside. Small plate skill improvements this year have him closer to his minor league rates (20% K, 10% BB) and if he continues to produce at this clip, he will have a double digit walk rate annually. His defense at shortstop isn’t top of the scale but it’s good enough to hold the position for the foreseeable future, with second base remaining a perfectly reasonable fallback. One of the game’s brightest stars, Torres could soon be hitting 30+ home runs while landing in the 4-5 WAR range every year.
Jake Mailhot, Pick 15: Joey Gallo, Texas Rangers
No one in baseball hits the ball harder than Joey Gallo. There are few who walk more than Joey Gallo. There are even fewer still who strikeout more than Joey Gallo. Therein lies the risk in picking him to headline this hypothetical baseball franchise. But the power is just so tantalizing. And to his credit, he’s made some real changes to his approach at the plate this year. He’s chasing pitches out of the zone far less often while managing to hit the ball harder than ever. When he does make contact—even if it isn’t all that often—he’s running an expected wOBA of .686! He’s also no slouch in the field either. He’s put up positive defensive marks at all three outfield positions and can play either infield corner in a pinch. That defensive value and flexibility elevates him above some of the other bat-first options on the board. His relative youth—he’ll turn 26 this November—gives him the perfect mix of short term and long term value. Picking Gallo feels like an endorsement of a particular baseball aesthetic, one centered around the three true outcomes, but his strong skills beyond his extreme power makes him a franchise cornerstone.
Bregman and Lindor over Mookie with only a year difference in age is crazy to me. Also tatis and Franco over acuna is shocking as well.
I agree with this for the most part. I think Lindor might be as good as Betts, so I can understand that, but seeing all those guys over Acuna when I thought he might be #1 overall seems odd.
Well, none of this could matter any less so you can rest easy.
Thank god that guy showed up.
Anthony Rendon, at 29 years old, seems way too high to me. There are players of similar caliber who are much younger. I probably wouldn’t have even taken him in the first round.
Franco looks too high as well, but I’m hesitant to criticize that after seeing the criticisms of Trout going third overall in 2011. Still, doesn’t make a lot of sense why someone would take Franco over a much more proven player who’s only a few years older like Acuña.
Rendon over Yelich and Mookie who are younger and have shown way higher peaks is indefensible. “DC” in the twitter bio clears things up quite a bit though…
Juan Soto is on the Nationals…
Which would have been a more defensible #5 pick, if you’re a big time Soto believer
The benefit to taking a late-20s, already proven player is that you have an established star to build around, and to rally your fanbase. The problem is, the perennially underrated Rendon really isn’t that face-of-the-franchise type player. And at 29 he’s not going to be carrying your team very long, either. I think he’s a better pick than the other 29 year old that some may have considered (Altuve), but not by much.
Agreed on Franco as well. Youth is great, but when you’re building your franchise you want somebody who can help a bit sooner, or you’re playing catch up for the first few years (and potentially longer if he doesn’t pan out). Franco could very easily make it all worth it, but there’s also a good chance he doesn’t. Acuna, Soto, even Tatis or Vlad have similar upside but less downside, and a shorter waiting period.
If Franco makes us all look silly in a few years though, awesome.
Even if Franco is as good as advertised, you’re still likely taking a wash on a year and a half of production. Soto is projected for 6.7 WAR via Zips in 2020, and Acuna is just below a 7 WAR pace this year, so that’s potentially 8-10 WAR for both before Franco even reaches the majors.
People downvoting me don’t seem to realize that I’m agreeing with the comment that Rendon and Franco are odd picks. Okay then.
There are some great young baseball players right now, but what Wander Franco is doing in the minor leagues as an 18 year old shortstop is unprecedented. He’s struck out in just 6.7% of his plate appearances while producing a walk rate of 10.6% and well above average power. Even assuming it takes him another year to reach the major leagues, it’s reasonable to believe that he will produce more wins above replacement over the next decade than Tatis, Acuna, or Vlad.
I don’t think that’s remotely reasonable to believe. I think it may be reasonable to assume over Vlad solely based on position but Tatis and Acuna are already succeeding in the majors at premium positions (there’s even an argument to be made CF is a more premium position than SS).
It would be unreasonable to believe a minor league prospect would be able to overcome a year and a half lag on those two players especially.
Granted Mike Trout happened, but odds are generally not in favor of a player being as consistently great as Trout. I still do think Franco warrants top 15 consideration considering a 10 year time span encapsulates most of his prime while a guy like Rendon is past his prime about 4-5 years into this thing.
The last thing I’ll say is the writer for the Franco pick mentioned team control, which was specifically not a consideration for this exercise. Wonder if Yelich or Mookie make that spot if the contract consideration is removed.
It’s definitely possible that Franco won’t surpass them, but you’re unquestionably wrong that it isn’t “remotely reasonable to believe.” Franco will be a year behind Tatis and Acuna, so he will have to perform at least 11.2% better over the remaining time period to be more valuable over the decade, which is more than possible. I would genuinely be shocked if Franco didn’t accumulate more WAR than Tatis over the next ten years, but Acuna will be a tougher task. Franco is legitimatelythat special as a prospect.
What do you think the actual odds are of Franco being more valuable than Tatis or Acuna? It could certainly happen, but I don’t think it would be the more likely outcome. Thus I don’t think it’s reasonable to take him over the other two.
Fernando: I’d say that Franco has a 75-80% chance of being worth more than Tatis over the next decade because of concerns about the latter’s contact and defense. I would put Franco’s chances of beating Acuna at around 55%, as Acuna has a similar ceiling to Tatis but less downside. Franco has no flaws as a prospect and a higher ceiling than the other two.
75-80%? If you’re that confident you oughta put some money on it. I’m sure you can find someone in Vegas willing to take that bet. I mean, why not?
lol, Acuna is 6 win player already while being unlucky at the plate (xwoba vs woba). This would mean that Franco needs to be a 7-8win player on average for a solid 5+ years something only Trout has been capable of doing (he was 9-10 which is insane)
Your math is amusingly inaccurate. Acuna isn’t quite a 6 win player yet anyway, but assuming he averages 6 WAR per season over the next decade then Franco starting a year behind him would need to average 6.7 WAR per season to beat him, not “7-8.”
Saying I’m unquestionably wrong is also unreasonable to believe. Sure “remotely” is strong language here but Franco’s MiLB numbers are better than Trout at the same levels and it’s certainly unreasonable to believe Franco performs like Trout.
People are comparing Franco’s numbers to Vlad Jr. and Vlad’s intro to the MLB hasn’t been smooth sailing as of yet. Don’t get me wrong I’m hyped on Franco, but not hyped enough to anoint him as unquestionably the second coming and reasonably expected to outperform 2 incredibly young, already All-Star level, talents based on MiLB stats below AA.
I couldn’t imagine sitting here saying I’d be genuinely shocked if Franco didn’t outperform Tatis in the next 10 years. Maybe it’s just life philosophy at this point, but I’d rather be cautiously optimistic and set myself up to be pleasantly surprised than full bore with greater chance of disappointment.
All that said I hope I eat my words here in 10 years and you’re right in all of this.
Your statement the way you phrased it is unquestionably wrong. If you had stated that you believe Tatis and Acuna will earn more WAR over the next decade than Franco, that’s a perfectly reasonable opinion, but that’s not what you wrote. Instead you insisted that it isn’t “remotely reasonable to believe” that Franco will be more valuable than those two, which is simply wrong because that is a reasonable belief.
Not just Vlad, Franco’s numbers are better than any prospect in recent memory. He’s made contact more frequently and with more authority than Mookie Betts did at the same levels.
I’ve been writing professionally about prospects for twenty years and I’ve never seen anything quite like what Franco is doing. I haven’t yet gotten to evaluate him in person, but scouts have unanimously praised his tools, so it’s not like this production is coming out of nowhere. Franco is extraordinary precisely because he has top of the scale talent with unbelievable production at such a young age while playing shortstop competently.
Again, you’re the one who insisted that it is not reasonable to believe that Franco will outperform Tatis and Acuna over the next decade. That’s the opposite of caution. I’m trying to get you to understand that Franco isn’t just another top prospect; what he’s doing is genuinely special. Over 594 minor league plate appearances he has struck out just 6.9% of the time while walking 10.6% and slugging .554, as a seventeen / eighteen year old shortstop. That is completely unheard of. Unlike Tatis (contact & defense), Franco has no red flags at all. There is absolutely nothing in his profile that appears to be any sort of weakness while his strengths are arguably superior. He has to start their race a year behind Tatis, but I have every confidence that Franco will pass him.
While I agree that Franco is not just a typical top prospect, I don’t think Franco’s defense has no concerns. There are reports that he may eventually go to 2B and Tatis has pretty much quelled all talks of him moving off SS. Sure his defense isn’t great yet, but it’s already average with most of his lost value coming on rookie errors. Defense isn’t a question mark at all with Tatis.
Acknowledging that defensive metrics need much larger samples than what we have so far for Tatis, among shortstops with at least four hundred innings in the major leagues this season he’s 17th in UZR/150, 17th in DRS, and 18th in Range Rating. He’s committed eight errors over 481.2 innings thus far, which is a worse rate than all but Tim Anderson and Trea Turner.
Exactly. His DRS is 0, which is exactly average for a SS. And that’s factoring in a poor error rate which is very typical for a rookie. As he shores up the errors he’ll be a plus defender at short.
Law just said on the radio that Franco is not “as dynamic of a fielder or runner as Tatis” but that he has a “more polished bat”.
I don’t think you can find anyone in baseball who believes that Tatis Jr. will ever be a plus defender at shortstop. The consensus is that he lacks the range and hands to be more than average there, while a lot believe that as he continues to fill out he’ll need to move off the position.
Eric and Kylie have Franco as a 60 present and 60 future runner while they put Tatis as a 55 present and 50 future.
You’re reading old reports and old grades. Read anything on Tatis’ defense since he’s been in the majors. There are a lot of people saying he’s gold glove level. I don’t think he’s that, but plus defense at short is well within reason. BP and Keith Law had him as a plus defender prior to his debut.
Eric and Kiley’s grades are old and they’ve even said that Tatis has had a growth spurt within the last year giving him way more athleticism than he was graded for. He’s top 5% in the majors in sprint speed. They’ve said in a chat that they rated Tatis’ speed too low. Tatis’ arm has all of the top 5 throw speeds in the infield this year. It’s literally the best infield arm in the majors by mph right now. They gave his arm a 60. He has the range and the arm, it’s just whether or not he can cut down the errors. If he does, he’s plus. If he doesn’t, then he’s just average, but he’ll still stick at SS. There’s no question about that.
Respectfully…picking a prospect who has yet to have an at-bat in the major leagues over a 20 or 21 year old (Tatis/Acuna) who is already putting up all-star numbers against the best pitchers in the game is insane. I do not believe a single major league GM would do so. No matter how amazing those numbers are…they are against inferior competition. Doing it at a high level, in the majors…is the whole enchilada. You simply don’t rank prospects ahead of that performance.
darrenasu: Didn’t we just get through discussing the 2011 and 2012 versions of this exercise where people made comments just like yours about Carson taking Trout #3 and Wendy taking Trout #4? Wander Franco is that type of prospect. Chances are that he doesn’t become Trout because the chances of anyone doing that are infinitesimal, but Wander Franco is the best combination of tools and production from an 18 year old shortstop that baseball has seen since Alex Rodriguez, except that Franco has far superior contact at the same age.
Hey jdbolick- of course. History is littered with exceptions to the rule that in retrospect we can always look back smugly at. But they are exceptions for a reason. Making future predictions based on those exceptions is a sure path to repeated failure. In short, anytime the support for your argument is, “well Mike Trout did it” your argument is a losing one.
That clearly hasn’t been my argument at all and it’s disappointingly disingenuous for you to pretend otherwise. I’ve made a logical case for Franco supported by both his statistical performance and scouting reports from the prospect analysts on this very site. I’ve also pointed out that Fernando Tatis Jr. has been extraordinarily lucky (stratospheric BABIP and HR/FB% to go along with below average Contact% and Hard Hit%) through his first three months and that he’s a much more flawed player than his surface numbers would suggest, indicating that it’s perfectly reasonable to believe that Franco could pass him in value over the next decade even when starting a year later.
Again, Wander Franco was rated higher (#2) than Tatis Jr. (#3) by Kylie and Eric coming into this season, which speaks volumes given that players at higher levels do tend to be ranked higher. Then during this season Franco has only increased in value as his performance both offensively and defensively have substantially improved, with his performance at the plate being absolutely ludicrous. As I keep pointing out, no 18 year old shortstop has had a better combination of tools and performance since Alex Rodriguez and even 18 year old Alex had nowhere near the contact rate that Franco has produced. Wander Franco isn’t just another #1 prospect, he appears to be a generational talent. It’s fine that you don’t believe me about that yet, but please do not deliberately misrepresent the nature of my argument just because you disagree with it.
Its getting overshadowed by other strange picks like Rendon but i think Chapman at 13 is pretty questionable as well.
Like, how is Chapman at 13 and Arenado is at 30?
Age. Given that Arenado went 17, it’s a reasonable pick if you value those extra two years of peak performance.
My mistake. I meant 30 in the original 2012 version
I don’t even think it’s close in this exercise. Chapman would be by FAR the better pick. If you put Chapman in Coors Field, he would produce numbers just like Arenado and he’s younger and he’s even a better defensive player.
Rendon and Franco are the really poor picks in my opinion.
“Sho Knows”
I can’t believe I had not made this connection until now – clever!
Ohtani is 25, not 23 as stated in the article, right? From a baseball standpoint he’s old enough and has had enough redflags that it’s easy to see this one not working out. But I still love the pick from a franchise standpoint. The hype he had coming into the bigs was massive, and there’s still a lot of intrigue surrounding him as we wait to see what he turns into. It’s a great pick from a business standpoint, and now as a franchise it’s time to sell it!
He just turned 25 7 days ago, so the error isn’t as egregious as it first seemed.
I don’t know how I goofed his age. Fixed. Thanks.
What redflags does Ohtani have? The TJ? Personally, I don’t think he should be a starting pitcher anymore as he has a potentially top 5-10 bat and taking his bat out of the line up for 200+ at bats seems silly to me. He should be moved into a Hader type roll, and DH at other times.
Which is fine, but then you’re looking at a corner outfielder who doesn’t walk quite enough, strikes out a little too much, and who despite only having about a season’s worth of experience is already 25, which for the purposes of this exercise is on the older side. I still love the pick like I said, but I’m not convinced it’s going to look like a great value pick in 5-7 years.
He is also relatively new to baseball stateside. He is likely a true talent 140 wRC+, with ++ speed, and apparently he can literally play every position on the diamond besides catcher. Obviously I personally would see him best as a RP and DH
Definitely fair. Based on the results of the 2012 draft though and how other mid-20s hitters aged, I’d hesitate to bet on him based on his bat alone. Factor in everything else he brings to the franchise and it’s a great pick. Even with the risks.
What more are you looking for?
His first 600 PA’s has generated a 292/358/567 line to go with a 149 wRC+ / 386 wOBA. 36 HR’s and 14 SB’s to boot. All while playing under the biggest international baseball microscope. I’m not totally sure what you are expecting but for a young kid making his debut in the majors that’s pretty decent.
Oh yeah … and he pitches … really, really good. Also, should mention that he put those numbers up while pitching or while dealing with a torn UCL or while rehabbing from TJ surgery. Not ideal circumstances.
I’m pretty confident that his bat will be just fine.
I’m not “looking for more.” He’s a great player and a great pick here. I commented on the 16-30 thread that I considered him a clear top 10 pick, possibly top 5. He’s a great pick at 12; the only available players I’d have taken instead were Soto and possibly Vlad.
But he’s also somewhat risky, especially if you’re counting on him providing value as a pitcher. There’s a very real chance he simply doesn’t provide that value, either because of his injury (he’s coming off Tommy John – and he was playing 7 months later! How many players have done that, let along pitchers?) or because it simply might not be worth it to sacrifice his plate appearances for innings. Or maybe you just focus on the value he can potentially provide with his bat, and consider anything else he brings to the table (the pitching, the global appeal) gravy – that’s fine too, and exactly why he’s such a great pick. But you have to acknowledge that if the pitching doesn’t work out, there’s a real chance his bat alone won’t quite justify this pick.
That said, when you consider all of the possibilities he opens and the likelihood of the various outcomes of each, he’s very much worth that risk here at 12.
I think the bat alone warrants top 12. He is certainly a top 12 hitter, so?
Based on the 2011/12 versions of this, the Rendon pick seems like one that won’t look so good halfway into this fake 10 year span. I get the logic behind Franco and Tatis, basically hoping one of them is a consistent MVP, but it’s interesting that the more proven big league guys in Gleyber and Ronnie went lower.
Maybe everybody read the old articles and made their picks that way. I get that the Orioles are in the MLB, but you take out his at bats vs the Orioles and Torres probably isn’t even on the list at all.
OMG how could you take Trout 3rd Cistulli!
It’s easy, you use your time machine and make the pick in 2011 rather than today.
Rendon at #5 is the worst pick in the top 30 by far imo.
Makes no sense for him to go far before Bryant and Arenado, who are a bit younger and giving equivalent production. Not that any of them should be going in the top 15. What a truly bizarre pick. It’s like it gets said so often that he’s the most underrated player in baseball that he somehow got severely overvalued over younger players here.
I think taking Gallo with Soto on the board is pretty suspect, but yeah, can’t compare to Rendon at #5.
Gallo has loads of defensive value over Soto. It’s more preference than anything if you believe in Gallo’s new found level of hitting.
It’s defensible, but I would much rather pin my franchise on a baby slugger than the hopes that Gallo can keep his newfound sub-18 SwStr%.
I would take Gallo over Soto. In terms of current value, one could argue Rendon should be top 5, but for the next decade? Yikes.
I could see Gallo being a regrettable pick as well if he gets Chris Davis-itis
Well, that applies to anyone who isn’t an elite level defender, but I understand the urge to lump Gallo in with Davis.
I’m not going to criticize the Franco pick, even though I want to, because I don’t want my comments to age like some of those 2012 ones. However, I will say Rendon at #5 is a dumbfounding pick. Honestly, was that name just picked out of a hat?
Yeah I feel the same way with Franco but that combination of skills/position is pretty tough to pass up on. Betting on him to be Trout would sure make me nervous tho
Great job everyone who participated. No matter what anyone says about the player you chose, thank you for the research and effort you put in for your picks.
Looking at the 2012 version it’s really hard to see what the “right” approach is. Sometimes prospects and fresh faces (Trout, Harper, Machado, Arenado) pay off. Sometimes, they don’t (Profar, Lawrie). Sometimes the veterans manage to defy their age and continue to build on their potentially HOF bound careers (Miggy, Votto, Verlander, Cano). Others, not so much (Kemp, Tulo, Braun). Sometimes the middle ground, the young but established players, prove to be the perfect compromise (McCutchen, Stanton). Other times, not so much (Andrus, Castro).
I think in a lot of ways, your approach in this draft says a lot more about personal preference for the direction of your franchise than it does about your player analysis skills, since it’s clear that players from any of the above categories of player can succeed or fail. It’s really just a question of how you want to start your team – establish your club with a bang, take a risk and build for the long term, or fall somewhere in between. You can go wrong with any of those approaches. Or maybe you’ll get lucky and be right.
Point is, there will be debates and opinions. Strong ones! I have some of my own, that I definitely intend to express in these comments shortly. But to those 30 community members who participated, don’t take those disagreements personally, as the clear takeaway from the previous versions of this exercise is: we have no idea.
While I mostly agree with you, I still think 2012 demonstrated the value of youth. Yes, there were success and failures in every category but it sure seems to me like the biggest success were in the very young prospect category. To me the conclusion is, if there are no sure things, take the biggest upside.
I disagree. I think the 2012 draft perfectly demonstrates the risk/reward tradeoff. That 2012 draft included Moustakas, Lawrie, Hosmer, Profar, Heyward, Starlin Castro, Andrus – all primarily based on youth and upside. Without going through a complete exercise of cumulative WAR, I think there’s an argument for even some of the comical veteran picks – Braun, Tulo, CarGo, Pedroia – over most of the youth. And guys like Longoria, Cano, Verlander, Votto and Cabrera have easily beat nearly all of them. So focusing on the fact that the best picks came from youth ignores that the worst picks did as well. Besides Kemp.
Of those listed( youth)players basically only Profar and Castro have hurt your team. The rest of those players have been reasonably productive. Could you imagine if in 2011 people thought Moosetacos would be a second baseman?
Your take isn’t hot enough
Oh man do I strongly disagree with some of these choices. Trout at #1 is defensible, for the reasons outlined, although not as much a slam-dunk as Devan implies. But Acuna is far too low (he’s an easy Top 3 pick), and Bellinger is arguably the best overall choice (people forget he is still 23, although for only another month). And Ohtani likely went too low as well. And Rendon at #5?
My general take on this is that the people picking here have not fully internalized the lessons of the 2011/2012 drafts. There were a lot of people picking players there who were in their late 20s and who were among the best players in the game, but most of those picks look terrible in retrospect because people are thinking about “who will help me win in the next two years” instead of the next 10 years, despite the instructions. The best picks were universal can’t miss prospects who were close to the majors (not sure there are any here except Vlad Jr) and super-young guys who have held their own (Acuna, Soto).
I can’t really be too hard on Lindor and Bregman, although I see Ohtani as a similar-value player at a similar age. And I think the gambles on Tatis Jr. and Torres make sense, given what they’ve done at their ages; those are the sorts of breakout candidates that get rewarded in this exercise. But there’s a lot of potential downside for later-20s superstars like Yelich, Machado, Bett (to a lesser extent), and (especially) Rendon. (You could say the same thing for Trout, which is why he’s not as much a slam-dunk as Devan claims even though he’s a worthy #1).
Trout’s a slam dunk because he’s a guaranteed first ballot hall of famer to build your franchise around, with plenty of good years still ahead of him. Even if he’s not the clear winner in terms of WAR produced moving forward (though he very well could be), he’s exactly the player every team would most want as their centerpiece.
Completely agree with your takes on Acuna, Soto, Tatis, Bellinger, Vlad, and Torres as great picks though. Ohtani is a major risk and not that young – but I love that pick anyway.
I rarely see Padres games, so is this really true? Obviously defensive metrics struggle with small samples, but UZR and DRS both have Tatis Jr. being significantly below average at shortstop over his first half season. Even at the plate, his success thus far has been courtesy of a .419 BABIP and 29.8% HR/FB rate that don’t appear sustainable given that his hard hit rate is actually below the league average for qualified hitters. Tatis Jr. (the profile currently links to his dad) is an exciting young player, but #6 is very aggressive given the wide variance in his potential outcomes.
He’s at 0 DRS, which is exactly average. His UZR/150 is -2.1, close enough to average with a small sample size. He’s probably averageish right now, though I do think he’ll likely have to move to 3rd eventually.
He’s making some amazing looking plays at shortstop (the arm is legit 80 grade), but he also makes a lot of errors which is probably typical for a rookie. I don’t think his range is actually as good as it looks, but he’s probably average at SS even with the errors. If he cuts down on them going forward he’s probably above average, but never as good as his flashy plays makes him look.
I’ve been saying exactly this for weeks now and no one seems to agree with it for some reason? It’s so bizarre, there’s this like, unlimited hype for him from prospect writers who seem to ignore all of those underlying numbers for some reason. I don’t get it.
He is a very exciting young player with immense potential, who’s racked up incredible stats at a premium position. He has also been incredibly lucky to accumulate those stats, and the underlying numbers and projection systems don’t look particularly impressive right now. People act like it’s impossible for both of those things to be true. Saying that doesn’t mean he’s a bad player or doesn’t have a bright future.
Agree on the BABIP argument. That’s legit. Tatis is not a 162 wRC+ hitter with his current K rate. That said, even if his BABIP regresses to .350 or so, he’s still a 130 wRC+ hitter, which is still pretty insane. Same goes for the HR/FB rate. Yes it should fall back a bit, but his EV on FB is over 95mph which is at top quarter if not top fifth in the league. He hits the ball very hard when he’s hitting the ball in the air. He still has Schwarber/Springer/Encarnacion level power.
So yeah he’ll regress, but he’s still a 20 year old kid who is a legit 120 wRC+ type hitter with average to plus defense at short and crazy dynamic baserunning skills. That might not be MVP level right now, but it’s certainly star level and if he improves at all he bumps himself into MVP level.
Franco that early seems wild to me.
That Franco pick is either going to look ok, or hilarious in a few years. Given that we know how good Betts is already, taking someone with 11 games above low A ball seems insane. This pick seems like it could either be slightly good (You pick someone at #8 who should go #3 or #4 if he turns into Lindor/Bregman), or a complete disaster if he’s the next Matt Wieters.
It is definitely aggressive given that he hasn’t even reached Double A, but he really is that impressive as a prospect. His contact skills are utterly ridiculous for someone with his power, and adding the likelihood of him being a capable shortstop makes him the best prospect we’ve seen since Trout.
Oh I know. What he’s done in A ball at his age is insane, even more so for a SS. But again, it’s A ball. He’s never seen a good curve or slider yet.
I get that you are trying to make a point, but plenty of people have good curve or sliders in A ball
Manny Machado hasn’t really shown himself to be a great hitter outside of Camden Yards. I don’t really get picking him ahead of the 4 1/2 years younger Torres.
wRC+ accounts for park factors, so his home park is moot.
How exactly the are park factors used by wRC+ calculated?
Right, because wRC+ is the only valid measure of a player. It is flawless and perfect!
One thing about Wander Franco: While I applaud the forward-thinking-ness of this pick, one of the most valuable things about Franco in real life is the team control. You don’t get that in this exercise. Plus, in your imaginary 10 year window, you still need to let him hack his way through the minors and adjust to major league pitching.
What this means is in this exercise, you probably have another full year of Franco hitting his way up the minors, and then another full year while he isn’t a fully-formed star. It’s very likely that even if Franco is a star, you won’t see that star paying dividend for your team until year 4 of this exercise. Meanwhile, Trout, Acuna, Bellinger, Bregman, and the rest are busy mashing right now.
Is 7 years of control for prime Franco going to be more valuable than 10 years of Acuna and Soto, who have already done a lot of development? Possible, but most likely not. I’m not sure Franco belongs on the top half of this exercise as a result, unless you think Franco is going to be an A-Rod level dominator right away. This is especially true if you weight present value more than future value. And this is even assuming Franco becomes a star, which seems likely, but he’s not even in the upper levels of the minors yet.
Now, in terms of real life trade value, the team control makes Franco an incredibly attractive asset but that’s not relevant here.
Saying “7 seasons” is disingenuous because Franco is only a year behind this year’s rookies and the time it takes him to reach “stardom” is offset by not experiencing a decline phase the way that someone like Bellinger will in 2027+.
I guess it depends whether you’re counting this year as part of it, and how quickly you think he’ll reach the majors. Doing the draft mid-year is confusing, because it’s not clear if this year is a part of that or not.
With respect to promotions, he’s only in A+ right now. If he spends half a year at A+ this year, and then splits the year between AA and AAA in 2020, then it seems unlikely he’d be up before the tail end of 2020. (In real life it may be longer because the Rays seem conservative with promotions)
So if he’s up at the beginning of 2021, then he’s losing 1 or 2 years (depending on whether this year counts or not), and then needs some time to develop (probably). His development time may be pretty short, or long. We don’t know. So I settled on one year of him adjusting to the league before he ascends. Do we think his learning phase is likely to be worse than the decline phase of someone like Ohtani? That’s a tough question.
That’s all assuming he will be a star, which I think we can all agree is potentially in the cards but not guaranteed. Franco’s got huge upside in this type of exercise but is also pretty scary.
Obviously you get the player until the all-star break in 2029. Ten years is 10 years, people.
The “ten years” factor was never mentioned in the rules for this year’s version.
With the way minor leaugers are moving up these days I think Franco is up much sooner than people think. He could be up early next year.
That could happen, but in a hypothetical new franchise it would be reasonable to expect Franco to appear in the major leagues by the second half of 2020, which would put him a year behind everyone else assuming that we start counting the next ten years from this All Star break.
What makes Franco so special is precisely that he does not have the red flags typically associated with even top prospects. Tatis Jr. has legitimate question marks regarding his contact rate going forward whereas Franco has 99th percentile contact ability while also having as much in-game power as Tatis. He’s basically Mookie Betts at shortstop.
Maaaaan I like this kid, even think he’s the best prospect right now, but this is a kid who just got promoted to A+. His red flag (maybe that’s not the right term here) is that he isn’t likely to even be in AA this year. Unless you think he’s a Soto-esque hitting genius who could come to the majors and crush major league hitting right now (I don’t, but maybe with that assessment you do), things actually have to happen in between now and then. I think they will. That’s still very different than knowing for certain they will.
Contact rates are already sticky at that point. You can see this for Betts, Pedroia, etc. Any 18 year old who strikes out in less than 8% of his minor league plate appearances is someone who is going to be a major league quality hitter barring catastrophic injury. Any 18 year old who strikes out in less than 8% of his minor league plate appearances while slugging over .500 is going to be a major league star. I keep trying to explain to people like you that Wander Franco isn’t just another top prospect. He’s not a Profar or a Buxton, he’s the best 18 year old shortstop baseball has seen since Alex Rodriguez.
Considering that the main difference between our positions is that I think he’s almost guaranteed to be a starter and very likely a star, and that your position seems to be that he’s almost guaranteed to be a star I don’t see this as a big disagreement except in the very unusual circumstance of this exercise where we’re pitting him against Ronald Acuna and Juan Soto.
But I just want to take a step back and evaluate the big picture: When people were hyping Profar or Buxton, I am sure that people said “this isn’t like [other big-time prospect]” as well. Maybe he’s not Profar or Buxton, or Delmon Young, but maybe he’s just merely okay like Jay Bruce or Pat Burrell or Matt Wieters. We can go back in retrospect and clearly pick out why Wander Franco is better than them as prospects, and you can also compare him to other stud prospects like Joe Mauer or Andruw Jones and A-Rod and that’s fair too. But what you’re saying is that it’s going to happen, guaranteed. That cannot possibly be correct, because literally nothing is guaranteed for any minor leaguer, especially one who hasn’t hit AA (even after excluding injury-related failure). I fail to understand why you’re digging your heels in and asserting something so vehemently that is logically impossible, even in the service of a broader point about the very very bright future of Wander Franco.
This. I don’t think anyone reasonable here is making an argument that Franco is not likely to be a stud. Numbers and eye test appears to suggest stardom. He’s awesome.
But Soto/Acuna/Tatis are young AND slaying ML pitching. There’s a real difference there. And one most ML teams recognize.
Soto is a legitimately great hitter but his value comes almost entirely from his bat. Tatis Jr. probably isn’t a legitimately great hitter and is currently riding a hot streak due to an unsustainable BABIP and HR/FB%. Acuna is the most valuable of those three by far. Franco does have a degree of uncertainty due to only being in the low minors, but he is also significantly better than any of those three were as 18 year olds.
*sigh* My argument has never been me just blindly insisting that Franco is different from those prospects, I have pointed out statistically why that is the case. I have not asked you to trust me based on my two decades of evaluating prospects with an extremely strong track record, I am pointing out specific statistical facts that differentiate Franco from Profar or Buxton or Wieters or Burrell.
Nothing is guaranteed, but what you keep missing is that the same is true for established major leaguers. No one expected Jason Heyward to post a 72 wRC+ in his first season after leaving the Braves, yet it happened. Acuna looks extremely likely to be a star for the next decade, but that’s not guaranteed just because he’s been very impressive over the last fifteen months. Meanwhile Tatis Jr. has posted strong numbers over his first three months but I’ve pointed out multiple reasons to expect strong regression from him going forward. We make projections based on what is likely to happen given historical data and statistical indicators. An 18 year old shortstop producing numbers similar to Franco’s with scouting reports similar to Franco’s has never failed to become a major league star. Never. If that happens to Franco then he would be the very first to do so, but barring something unexpected like an injury or a disease, there is no obvious reason to believe that he will fail, as he does not appear to possess any of the weaknesses that undermined other top prospects.
Because thus far every objection to my position has been a variation of the notion that we can’t value 18 year olds in A-ball that highly no matter how extraordinary those 18 year olds appear to be, and I don’t accept that. Amidst all these disagreements and all these downvotes, not one single person has even attempted to explain why I’m supposedly overrating Franco. Everything is just a blanket rejection of putting that kind of value on a minor leaguer even if their performance is historically exceptional. And what’s really bizarre is that many of the same people downvoting me mocked the exact same rational being used to dismiss Carson’s Trout pick in 2011.
The main question is this.
What is the probability that Franco *ever* performs like ’19 Bellinger?
10%? 20%?
We’ve seen many top prospects (Trout, Bryant, Acuna, etc) thrive, but there is definitely survivor bias there as the ones that don’t tend to get forgotten more easily. Profar, Buxton, Bruce, and Young, etc. are all decent players with the former pair being still young but they have not yet blossomed into stars a lot of people thought they would.
What is the probability that Bellinger *ever* performs like ’19 Bellinger?
10%? 20%?
100%. It is true by definition.
“What’s the probability of X event ever happening” for something that already happened is always 100%.
I wasn’t trying to be pedantic. I am merely making the point that we are probably seeing Bellinger’s best season of his career.
Yeah, but even then, that’s kind of like when people were saying Aaron Judge’s rookie season probably wasn’t sustainable. That’s true, but 80% of that is incredible, and not at all unreasonable.
Eh, Bellinger has a much better chance. Also, way less likely to never be that good going forward.
If for no other reason, Bellinger has a better chance of it, since he’s already done it.
I’m curious to see how much the FG commentariat lines up with the actual picks. My instinct here is that age still isn’t being taken into account enough here. So my picks would be something like:
Top 5 (in some order): Trout, Bellinger, Acuna, Soto, Ohtani
6-10 (in some order): Bregman, Lindor, Torres, Tatis Jr., Vlad Jr.
11-15 (in some order): Betts, Yelich, Devers, Alonso, Correa
16-20 (in some order): Chapman, Machado, Gallo, Seager, Baez
21-30 (in some order): Bogaerts, Franco, Story, Yordan Alvarez (NR), Lucas Giolito (NR), Walker Buehler (NR), Shane Bieber (NR), Ozzie Albies (NR), Aaron Nola (NR), [someone else].
Others considered (with original location): Aaron Judge (22), Yoan Moncada (NR), Bryant (24), Arenado (28), Ketel Marte (NR), Alex Verdugo (NR), Luis Castillo (NR), Brandon Woodruff (NR), Adalberto Mondesi (NR), German Marquez (NR), Eloy Jimenez (NR), Gary Sanchez (NR), Jose Ramirez (29).
Somewhere below that (with original location): Rendon (5), Snell (25), Harper (26)
Obviously this list will look silly in 7 years but I would hope it would be less silly than those drafts 7 years ago? One thing I think this reveals about me is that while I’m pretty sure that one of Giolito, Buehler, Bieber, and Nola is going to make the pick look really silly I can’t bring myself to pick any of them early because of the risk for pitchers. Also, despite me thinking Franco is a future star, I can’t take him earlier than that last third.
Just based on what people value every list would be different, but I largely agree with your list. The only things that give me pause are Ohtani (for injury reasons) and maybe dropping Vladdy into tier three, if only for the immediate production/floor of Betts/Yelich. Also worth remembering Alonso is 25, and for a big first baseman the back end of the 10 years might get ugly.
I was a pretty big skeptic on Ohtani that high, but I set out to prove that Ohtani didn’t belong in that top tier yesterday and mostly failed. Even if the guy is a 4-win pitcher and 2.5 win hitter, that’s enormously valuable. Maybe I’d drop him because pitchers break, but even then I bet he could convert to the outfield nicely (if we think what he’s doing this year is real, his bat plays anywhere, and he’d be doing it over a full season of PAs).
The risk in pitchers is just too high. 4-5 years ago Kershaw was far and away the best pitcher and would have seemed a slam dunk and while he’s still good, he’s not help he used to be. I can guarantee one of those arms you list will make everyone wish they grabbed them early here, but for the life of me I couldn’t pick which.
It’s also so tough to pick between young guys. I have faith that Franco and Vlad will slaughter the league in time, but compared to a breakout in Devers? Or someone like Yelich or Judge who are still fairly young and just mashing baseballs? Even a guy like Tatis is the pick that either looks genius 5 years later or you cringe at over-valuing half a season of production from a top prospect.
Yeah. but the last 5 years of Kershaw is still better than any non-Trout position player so it would have been the right call.
Good construct.
I think I personally have a hard time getting Tatis into my top 10.
Yes, he is freakishly young, plays a valuable position, seems to run well, and has hit enormously well year to date.
I am just not ready to put full faith in that last part. The .420ish babip is due for some substantial regression, he has some risk of being the sort of middling-power type who is hurt if the balls return to normal, and xwoba (for whatever it’s worth; the jury is still out) has him at not the 5th best hitter in baseball but about the *125th* best.
This is not to knock the guy. He’s a star in the making (if not already made). And I think where he is on the age curve is enormously valuable. But I am not sold enough on the bat as truly exceptional to take him over some of the others on the list.
(Please be sure to flag this in a year as exceptionally foolish when he turns into some combination of Mike Trout and Ozzie Smith.)
I would generally agree with that. His first half of 2019 is probably going to look nothing like the rest of his career, so it’s worth questioning exactly what he’s going to do going forward. Of course, he’s also 20 years old. So if that 162 wRC+ was real, he’d be an easy Top 5 pick but I think we can all agree it’s not.
The Rendon pick is the most egregious due to past learnings not being internalized here, but I am also perturbed by Gallo.
Do we really think his .400 BABIP is sustainable? He has been a 2.8 WAR/year player for 2 years and the projection systems all see him regressing by end of this year back with a .300 BABIP in the last 3 months, leading to a 5 WAR season. That’s great, but how does he replicate that? I can’t see him getting beyond 5 WAR or even repeating this season without a massive reduction in K’s.
You talk about risk, which there is tons, but I’m not seeing the upside. Here are his ranks:
– BB% (18.6%) = #2 Great, so is there any more upside? Feels like he’s already at the peak and there’s only risk of dropping.
– ISO (.365) = #2 Same as above. Can this really get any higher?
– BABIP (.400)= #5 He is going to plummet. His career is .250.
– K% (36.7%) = #6 This is the key. Unless he can push this number down drastically, he’s never going to be able to exceed his current performance levels.
Why would a player have a hard ceiling of 18.6% BB%? Dude’s on pace for 8.2 WAR/600 PA this season. So, no, no one is expecting that to continue — or else he would have gone #1 overall. That doesn’t mean he won’t have a great next 10 years, however.
I get your point, but considering he hit 40 HR the last two seasons, and is an excellent defender, it’s a reasonable choice imo.
I agree Gallo is a strange choice. If you want a big time slugger and aren’t bothered by K’s what is the justification for choosing Gallo over Judge? Judge has been a much better hitter and a much better defender in a similar number of games in their careers, and they are basically the same age. Recency bias.
He’s a good 18 months younger than Judge. And he looks like he can be at least an average CF, maybe much more. I’m certainly open to the idea that we’re overrating Gallo a lot because of recency bias and he should be lower, but I do think he should definitely be in the Top 30 of this exercise.
Also Judge–while awesome–is probably going to put so much stress on his lower body with that huge frame that I don’t think he’s going to last. We should enjoy him while we can, which is going to probably be a lot less than 10 years.
The reality is that Gallo is a career 118 wRC+ hitter with a 38% k rate who is riding a .400 BABIP to an unsustainable wRC+ of 158 that only just equals Judge’s career wRC+. There is a reason Judge has 15 career WAR in 330 games, while Gallo only has 9 WAR in 411 games. Unless Gallo changes his hitting profile dramatically he is much less likely to last 10 years than is Judge.
Acuña at 10 feels like the steal of the draft. A 21 yr old superstar that has already produced at an All-star level in his first full season of games. I dont really see the logic of selecting anyone over the age 25 when guys like Soto and Acuña are still on the board. Also, Tatis before Acuña is interesting as well. They both have MVP potential in their future and Tatis is great but he has been the luckiest hitter in baseball this season based on xwOBA vs wOBA and xSLG vs SLG.
The logic of selecting anyone over age 25 when Soto and Acuña are still on the board is that I’m taking Trout number 1, and he’s over age 25. Ten years from now, Trout will probably be not all that good. But youth isn’t everything. ~5 years of likely near peak Trout (and it’s entirely possible that we still have not seen peak Trout), followed by some decline is still really, really good. And value now has more value than value in 9 years.
Trout is the exception, I too would take Trout, but it was more in reference to Bregman, Yelich, Rendon and Lindor, all great MVP caliber players but are 25 and older
Good article. But I suggest next time, ordering it so #1 is at the bottom of the page. More suspense. (Well I guess not really, Mike Trout was the obvious choice).
tbh shocked Acuna fell to 10
The risk aversion is pretty insane in the first round as a whole. The fact that there are almost no young stud pitchers left in the bigs or the minors makes guys like Buehler and Marquez more valuable, not less.
It would make them more valuable–if they pan out. Even great pitchers who don’t go down in flames due to injury can have weirdly inconsistent career arcs.
Also, I think you are underestimating the number of “stud young pitchers”, depending on your definition of those words.
There’s some pretty significant risks being taken here, IMO. If I’m hypothetically running a new franchise, Round 1 is NOT where I’m taking my risks.
Who are these young, stud pitchers?
Put another way, why is it that plenty of successful orgs have drafted pitchers in the first round of the MLB draft over the years? Teams are well aware of the risk, but also the scarcity and the upside.
When the entire league starts behaving one way (“all pitchers are too risky for the first round”), that’s often when value is created.
There are plenty of young stud pitchers in the bigs and minors … it is just that nobody knows which they are. TINSTAAPP. And the same factors that make that true — inconsistency from year to year and susceptibility to injury — apply equally to supposedly identified young studs like Buehler. Dwight Golden, Kerry Wood, Tim Lincecum, Mark Fydrich, and many others, were all at one point young stud pitchers expected to dominate for the next decade whose careers did not play out that way. That scenario does not play out nearly as often with position players.
Nah. We’ve rarely if ever seen a time in the last 20 years with so few elite pitching prospects (per published rankings and scouting reports) and so few under-25 year old stud pitchers in the majors.
And yes, of course most pitching prospects flame out. It’s all part of the risk/reward calc. But the fact that we have so few pitchers who are even *expected* to have huge upside is very different than how things were even five years ago. MLB teams are acutely aware of this.
I will take your word that there are fewer highly ranked pitching prospects. But that may simply reflect that rankers and scouts have become more skeptical about pitching prospects in general (i.e., there are more TINSTAAP acolytes among them), rather than that there are in actuality less young stud pitchers/prospects. Of course, as you suggested in an earlier comment, the pendulum can swing too far and the value can be on the pitching side, and we may well be at that point. I am highly skeptical that that means guys like Buehler and Marquez (who I am not certain even actually is a true stud) should shoot up this board as a result – whether other young pitchers are undervalued or properly valued, there is still an extraordinary amount of uncertainty in pitcher careers compared to position player careers.
I’m sorry but this list is straight up insane lol.
Now I know how guys like Soto fell so far. Because Anthony Rendon and Wander Franco was in the top 10.
July 12, 2019: the day that somebody first OVERrated Anthony Rendon.
I feel like Ms. Stark used this exercise to highlight a player she believes is criminally underrated in an effort to raise his profile. That was her prerogative, but the comments here suggest it was a misguided effort.
So many red flags lurking with Machado. He’s been only moderately above average as a hitter for the last 2.5 seasons (103, 141, 116 wRC+), his K% is at an all-time high this season, and the defense (even at 3b) has fallen off a cliff, coinciding with a plummeting Speed score. This suggests an early decline to me.
The reason why he has a career high K% is due to the fact he has been brutal at home. In 45 games he has a .226/.290/.411 slash, 84 wRC+, 7.5% BB% and a 22% K%. He has been good on the road particularly the crazy series in Colorado, but yeah, not a great first year. He has also lost .4 WAR over the last 2 weeks or so during his most recent slump.
Agreed, I don’t even want to get into character arguments, but I think there is a lot of things about Machado that make him seem too high for me. This is a weird one, but I think Machado also has a very odd body, like I’d venture he has high body fat despite looking thin. My bold prediction is he is going to end up being the worst player over the next decade on this entire list.
Vlad Jr. outside the top 15 is going to age like Sharp Cheddar.
I’m sure he wouldn’t let any sharp cheddar age.
Why should he?
Minor correction – Gleyber Torres made the ASG for the SECOND time this season, not first.
I initially thought it was curious that Vlad fell to the second half of this draft, but then I saw the first and half and realized that, holy crap, there are a lot of young, uber-talented baseball players right now. It’s great!
How in the world did none of the 30 picks take the 25-year-old Ketel Marte?? Slightly plus defender at SS for his career, transitioned to CF and in one season ranks as one of the best defenders, is insanely athletic, and also has crazy raw power and good contact skills? Did I mention he’s only 25?
Instead we have some players that are almost 30, shortstops that are inferior (Trevor Story), players that have never even made the majors… This is egregious. FanGraphs is supposed to be the site where players like Marte are cherished, not a popularity contest.
Unlike most of this draft, recency bias loses out to cognitive dissonance in the case of Ketel Marte.
Trevor Story put up a 5-win season last year and is on pace to do it again. So Story is better than you think.
Ketel Marte is about a year younger and is on pace for a 6 win season, both of which are better, but I think we’re all afraid that this is a mirage. Is it? I don’t know. Obviously if this is what Ketel Marte is going to be the next couple of years then he deserves to be on this list.
It was just two months ago that Marte could only hit from the right side, so while not including him on this list might end up being a huge mistake, I wouldn’t be shocked if he returns to who he was preseason.
Ohtani’s not 23 – he just turned 25, this being his age 24 season.
Not sure how I messed that up. Fixed. Thank you.
Anthony Rendon at 5 and Kris Bryant at 24 is very bizarre. Bryant is younger, has been better by WAR thus far in his career, and is currently better by WAR
No Brandon Lowe? He’s a 5 win player making $3M per year for the next 6 years.
Well for this exercise contracts don’t matter (otherwise Acuña would be top 3) and I would guess the less than one full season of xp dings him
And Ozzie Albies would be up there too.
Yeah, we will certainly be seeing both of them on the last day of trade value series. I think it is honestly somewhat fascinating to consider Acuña v. Trout in that exercise.
Matt Chapman over Arenado? Can I get an explanation?
They like their players young in these parts. Go figure.
My guess is because he is a better hitter, better defender, a better baserunner, and is younger.
LOL
This is probably not literally true, but it’s close and it made me LOL.
If I had my back against the wall, I might admit that their hitting is pretty close to even, and if you think that wRC+ over-punishes players at Coors, because it’s tricky to say what the hangover effect is, I think that’s plausible and so MAYBE you could give a slight edge to Arenado with the stick. But Chapman is the superior defender and baserunner and is younger, and age is pretty huge in these things.
There’s a big difference between who you would take in a new dynasty fantasy draft and who you would take starting an actual baseball franchise. Fangraphs often forgets just how much of its traffic comes from fantasy players, but Fangraphs readers often forget that this site doesn’t view itself as a fantasy site in the first place.
If you are starting a brand-new actual franchise, you care about things like marketing and first season ticket sales and potential bad press. You care about how profitable your team will be more than how awesome the stats will be. The Rendon pick would be a terrible one from a pure fantasy baseball perspective, but that wasn’t what this exercise was about. Even in that context I still would have taken Yelich or Betts over Rendon, but the pick is more defensible looking at what the intention was. If you opened a brand new team with your best player a 20yo with lots of potential and that player never developed, you’ll lose millions in potential revenue. Selecting Yelich/Betts/Rendon is as much about avoiding failure as it is about seeking success.
if this exercise was 2 years ago, how high would Carlos Correa have gone? He’s such an afterthought to this discussion given his injury/performance issues since 2017
Much higher. Iirc WAR at that time predicted Correa would produce the most WAR over the next decade (even ahead of Trout) which was largely viewed with skepticism at the time.
While I agree with the Tatis pick, I wonder if he was putting up his expected line of .240/338/456 rather than his current line of 327/421/620 if he would be ranked nearly as high? I do think he will be a great player one day with game changing speed and great defense, but I think his bat is not as great as people think, yet. I saw some mock fantasy drafts where he is being drafted in the first round which is a hard pass for me. If the season ended today he would be the luckiest hitter of all time since recording these stats.
Holy Little Leaguers! Gallo is ahead of Harper.
They’re the same guy.
Trout is the best player most of us will ever see? What’s the average age of a Fangraphs reader? 12 years old? Well then kids, let me tell you about a man named Barry Bonds…
Think the whole steroids thing might have something to do with that comment.
Two Angels, two Padres. Double the franchise face fun in each case!
Then again, it depends upon what you expect from your “franchise player..” I’ll give Mike Trout serious props as the lad most obvious to get fanatical home support. And he’s earned it in the past. And he’s earned it in the future, with his (relatively) team-friendly extension. But he’s been the Face of the Angels for as long as he’s been around, and where has that got anybody?
He’s still the best baseball player on the planet. But you want face, you give face. I’m going for Shohei-san, assuming that the TJ works out over the next few years.
Shohei could actually win something for the Angels, which makes him a Face to be Dreamed upon. Also, he’s the closest thing we are ever likely to see to the Babe. And he has international appeal.
I mean, c’mon. In this particular contest, Ohtana knocks the spots off the competition.
Luis Robert could easily be #2 in a few weeks. I’ve never seen a prospect this exciting. And I’m getting older! Who is this kid!?
Acuna and Soto are both drafted way too late, biggest under drafts in this exercise imo. Tatis is an overdraft imo…he isn’t a great or even above average defensive shortstop and has been unbelievably lucky at the plate. Drafting him over Acuna and Soto is nuts imo.
That description of Bellinger’s is pretty off . Bellinger’s swing is much more measured and efficient than it was in the past which has him now in this conversation. You are describing the guy from 2018 that lacked the consistency to be a consistent force. He doesn’t play a capable CF either. He is however a gold-glove caliber 1B, which is where he belongs.
Rendon got drafted? I assumed he didnt make the cut after the last article
5th??? LMAOOOOOOOOOOO
Swap Soto & Rendon and this list improves substantially.
I think this information is useful for discussing this type of exercise. Here are the top 40 in WAR for the last 10 years (2009-2018):
1. Mike Trout-64.3
2. Clayton Kershaw-60.2
3. Justin Verlander-55.8
4. Joey Votto-52.1
5. Buster Posey-51.1
6. Max Scherzer-50.7
7. Robinson Cano-49.4
8. Miguel Cabrera-48.9
9. Andrew McCutchen-48.2
10. Yadier Molina-45.9
11. Adrian Beltre-45.2
12. Zack Greinke-44.9
13. Ben Zobrist-44.6
14. Evan Longoria-43.4
15. Felix Hernandez-41.7
16. Chris Sale-41.2
17. Brian McCann-40.3
18. Ian Kinsler-39.7
19. David Price-39.1
20. Russell Martin-39.0
21. Giancarlo Stanton-38.8
22. Dustin Pedroia-37.9
22. Cole Hamels-37.9
24. Jose Bautista-37.2
25. Justin Upton-37.0
26. Josh Donaldson-36.5
27. Jonathan Lucroy-36.2
27. Paul Goldschmidt-36.2
29. Ryan Braun-34.6
30. Corey Kluber-34.1
31. Cliff Lee-33.3
32. Troy Tulowitzki-33.0
33. Brett Gardner-32.1
34. Curtis Granderson-31.9
34. Nelson Cruz-31.9
36. Jose Altuve-31.6
37. Joe Mauer-31.4
38. CC Sabathia-31.3
39. Gio Gonzalez-31.1
40. Chase Utley-30.9
This kind of article really works better if you release 1-15 before 16-30. Oh well, I just waited a day and am reading them in that order, anyway.