The Astros and Mariners Made a Weird Trade
Most deadline trades follow a familiar coda. A team with fading hopes and eyes full of prospects gets rid of an overperforming reliever, or perhaps a soon-to-depart slugger. A contender who needs more pitching (so, all of them) gives up on its prospect-hugging ways long enough for a few to slip through its grasp. Wham-o! It’s a trade. This one is … well, it’s not that:
Source confirms: Astros acquire RHPs Kendall Graveman and Rafael Montero from Mariners for IF Abraham Toro and RHP Joe Smith. Montero had been designated for assignment. First: @brianmctaggart
— Ken Rosenthal (@Ken_Rosenthal) July 27, 2021
Kendall Graveman is definitely the aforementioned overperforming reliever. He’s been incredible this year, one of the best closers in the game. No longer a middling starter, he converted to relief in 2020, added velocity and started dominating. His 0.82 ERA is better than he’s actually been — shocker, that — but he’s cooked up an enviable mix of strikeouts and grounders, and he’s done it when it counts; he’s recorded 18 shutdowns this year (adding at least 6% of win probability) and only three meltdowns (losing 6%).
Rafael Montero? He hasn’t been that. He has 12 of those fancy shutdowns, but 12 meltdowns to match. The Mariners are 23–8 in one-run games, but it’s been because of Graveman, not Montero. In fact, they’ve swapped roles; Graveman now finishes games, and Montero sets him up. He, too, is a capable pitcher. But he’s been dicey this year, even at the underlying metric level, and that 7.27 ERA — ew!
Anyway, neither of them are Mariners anymore. The Astros snapped them both up, and they’ll fold them into their middle-of-the-road relief corps; they’ve been only 16th in baseball in park-adjusted ERA and 20th in park-adjusted FIP. Ryan Pressly has been great, but he’s a man, not an entire bullpen. Houston could certainly use the help.
We’ve penciled Graveman in as the team’s new setup man and Montero as a middle reliever, and that’s likely what Houston will do. Honestly, though, you could convince me that the two of them will put up comparable results the rest of the way. Graveman’s new turbo sinker is beastly, and his numbers speak for themselves, but baseball is a forward-looking game.
One possible issue for Graveman: Since missing roughly three weeks after landing on the COVID-19 IL, his fastball hasn’t been quite the same. In eight of his first 14 appearances, he averaged 97 mph or higher on the pitch, but in the 16 he’s made since returning, he’s hit that mark only once, and that was exactly 97. His whiff rate on the pitch has declined by roughly half, from 12.5% to 6.4%, and his slider has gone from a ludicrous 27.8% swinging-strike rate before down to 16.7%.
Graveman’s results haven’t suffered overly much, but that doesn’t mean things don’t look ominous underneath. After allowing only a single barrel before his IL stint (an easy delineating mark), he’s allowed four since, and loud contact is bad contact from a pitcher’s perspective. Just in terms of pure run value, he piled up three times more value in the first half of his season than he has since returning.
It’s all tiny samples, because I’m splitting a reliever’s already short track record into two buckets. I’m also tricking you by comparing Graveman’s recent form to his early-season success; he’s still been quite good since returning, and the building blocks are there for a great reliever. But if you told me that he would be 10% better than league average the rest of the way rather than the complete monster he’s been so far, I’d believe you.
Montero’s season has been the exact opposite. Graveman has a .176 BABIP; Montero checks in at .364. The defense behind him has cost him five outs, per Baseball Savant. Things have gone as wrong as they could, and in fact, the Mariners designated him for assignment on July 23. One way or another, he wasn’t going to be in the Seattle bullpen. But he’s been basically the same pitcher as always, which is to say a serviceable but completely unexciting reliever (with the exception of one season of starting for the Mets).
To add those two pitchers, the Astros sent a prospect of sorts and a pitcher of their own. Let’s cover the pitcher first, because reliever-for-reliever trades are the best. Like Graveman, Joe Smith is a righty sinker/slider type. Unlike Graveman, he’s a weirdo side-armer who sits in the mid 80s and has trouble with lefties, what with the side-arming and all. He’s also 37, and Houston was using him mostly as a mop-up reliever at this point; his average entry leverage index this year was 0.35, which means he was coming into games almost exclusively when the outcome wasn’t in doubt. He probably didn’t have a place in Houston after this trade and happened to have a nearly identical salary to Montero. Maybe the Mariners can use him — they’re down a few relievers now — but he’s a throw-in, not a reason to make a trade.
Abraham Toro is the highlight of Seattle’s return, and like every nerd, I’m a big fan. He’s hit a ton at multiple levels of the minors and was adequate when needed (despite a brutal .205 BABIP) in Houston this year before returning to Triple-A, where he has 11 walks, eight extra-base hits, and eight strikeouts. Is that good? I think that’s good.
The knock on Toro has always been how ungainly he looks in action. Looking the part is overrated, but he really doesn’t look the part, and he’s been kind of bad in his cup of coffee in the majors (308 plate appearances so far). He doesn’t have a true carrying tool; he has plus bat control and hits for a bit of power, but neither jump off the page. He’s also an indifferent defender, filling in for Alex Bregman at third base this season but having played all over the diamond in the minors, with middling results. I buy him as an average regular, but it’s definitely not a lock.
From a cut-and-dry surplus value view of this trade, I like Seattle’s side. Toro is my favorite prospect traded so far this deadline (he’s no longer a prospect, but only barely, and you get the idea), and if he’s not the best, he’s at least in the conversation. Graveman is a reliever on an expiring contract, and Montero was on the verge of being released. If the Mariners had a spot to play Toro, you could even argue this trade makes them better this year.
But they don’t, and they had a spot to play Graveman: in the closer’s role, winning them games and collecting high fives from the team. It’s hardly surprising that Seattle’s clubhouse was upset when the players learned about the trade. Graveman had just shut the Astros down in a key spot on Monday, in a thrilling come-from-behind victory. Trading your stud closer to the team you’re trying to compete with doesn’t feel good. In the aftermath of this trade, Jerry Dipoto stressed that he’s not done trading and that he plans on adding to the team, and maybe he will. He’s certainly no stranger to trades. He also just traded a guy who has played a large role in the Mariners’ surprising season — whether sustainably or not — to a divisional rival. You can understand why the team wouldn’t like it.
Do I think the Mariners were contenders? Not serious ones. Our playoff odds give them a 5.6% chance of reaching the postseason, and they’ve been sneaky bad this year; by BaseRuns, they’re the seventh-worst team in the league. Any additions they make should be players who will be on the team for several years, and there’s nothing wrong with trading players on expiring contracts for guys who will stick around longer. Without other moves, though, this one feels like blowing up the current team (and Tyler Anderson doesn’t count). It’s not, really; Graveman is a reliever, not a franchise cornerstone. But it feels like blowing up the team, and that seems ill-advised, particularly for a franchise that hasn’t made the playoffs since 2001.
I get the Astros’ side of the deal. Toro didn’t have an obvious fit; he’s more or less a four-corners defender, and the Astros have better options at those positions. That’s the exact kind of surplus that contending teams should trade for impact relievers, and if you think Montero is salvageable, they got two for the price of one. It’s an overpay in the long term, but turning your utility guys into useful bullpen arms is a trade contending teams will make all day. You can always develop another utility guy later, and they needed relief help right now.
So I’ll give both teams a conditional passing grade, but Jerry, buddy, read the room! If the Mariners make a subsequent series of trades, perhaps using Toro as part of them (teams love him), maybe all will be forgiven. But if he made a marginal surplus value upgrade and alienated the fanbase and clubhouse in the bargain, that’s certainly not great. I like Toro, but not enough to lose the confidence of the team over it. I’m guessing there’s more to come, but this is a great example of a move that makes sense from a numbers perspective but that I still kind of hate.
Ben is a writer at FanGraphs. He can be found on Bluesky @benclemens.
Mistake comment
Was there a way to delete this? I was only able to edit it. Seems like there should be a way to pull it back entirely within 60 seconds or something.
There are no mulligans in baseball.
Unless a low-flying bird gets in the way of your pitch at just the wrong time…
That bird sure didn’t get a mulligan…
Replay review!
I think you’re just supposed to translate it to Serbian, then to Vietnamese, then back to English
Ask and ye shall receive! “Annotation Error”
Eh. I mean, it’s not *good* to have your team pissed off at you, obviously. But if your competitive window is just opening, as Seattle’s is, and you can potentially get a long-term contributor to that (or someone who can be used to trade for a long-term contributor), you’ve got a lot of time to regain trust and confidence. I get the clubhouse being upset. They’re wired to compete and they lost a dude who was really good for them when they’re only a game out. But it’s Jerry’s job to have a longer-term time horizon right now. I don’t think the *fan* outrage is warranted.
If you want to win the clubhouse back, you could always swing a deal for Hosmer 😉
I am confident that if they packaged him with Mackenzie Gore they could not only unload Hosmer but get the extremely defensively talented Evan White in return. He makes plays that other first basemen can’t!
DiPoto + Preller = don’t rule this out!!
Almost makes too much sense.
Or take everyone out for pizza and ice cream. That always does the trick in little league
I think post-game little league celebrations are singlehandedly keeping many Dairy Queen locations in business.
Let’s see, he swapped a 2 months of a guy who had been awesome but his stuff was down for a possible everyday third baseman who will be around for a lot longer. There’s a reason why Dipoto is running this team and not the clubhouse.
Abraham Toro = Keith Foulke lol.
OP wasn’t criticizing the clubhouse; moreover, does anyone in that clubhouse think DiPoto is trying to win in 2021? Ofc they resent him (as they should). Whether the fans should (not that fans are homogenous, but w/e) is another story.
Graveman was a great sell high candidate… if he suddenly turns into (check notes for fair comp)… Dave Righetti? Eric Gagne? well shame on DiPoto. But since that has happened all of twice where middling starter for a few seasons suddenly “figured it out” and became a true asset as a closer, they are correct building on their deficient offense.
It’s definitely way more than twice. I can think of joe Nathan, Liam Hendriks, Wade Davis, Mark Melancon, and Brad Hand just off the top of my head. It happens a lot
I’m more familiar with guys turning into decent relievers with a switch rather than Andrew Miller or Zach Britton. But how exactly are they supposed to know at this point whether he’s Miller or… I don’t know, Ian Kennedy? Tyler Clippard? Do the Mariners have the luxury of waiting for Graveman to settle and maybe try to build the bullpen around him? Given that they have Steckenrider and Sewald on tap for multiple seasons, trading Graveman is the smarter move. It’s just a terrible look to trade him to the team you’re currently playing against, especially when every win matters if you think the Mariners are competitive. The optics suck, but this trade was a good decision on paper.
EDIT: just noticed that Graveman isn’t a free agent until after next season. So it’s slightly worse, but I still think the Mariners came out on top here.
The “free agent” ETA on the Fangraphs player pages are not intuitive to interpret–I think you had it right the first time. If you look at spotrac or roster resource you’ll see he’s a free agent after this season.
He’s got a 0.1 WAR by going 1 for 1 with a HR. Starting off with a bang!
This was a good move for the Mariners. End of story.
The problem is more of how Dipoto handled it. If you’re truly going to add more than subtract to this team, than maybe make the Anderson move, for example, before this one. Acquire another reliever before trading Graveman.
Also, I don’t know, maybe WAIT to make this specific move until Houston is out of town? I have a hard time believing the Astros would seriously pull Toro off the table if Dipoto waited this one out until Thursday.
In a vacuum, this is a smart move, but it’s not like we’re playing OOTP here. I’d still make it, but just put more consideration into the order and timing of it first. Human element should matter here.
Also, It will be fascinating when the Mariners inevitably regress if it’s pinned on this move or more just the fact they aren’t that good. There’s going to be a lot of low-hanging fruit for baseball writers when they fall out of the playoff chase.
It may be a smart move purely on talent/expected performance, but it’s a lousy signal to send to your team and fans. Seattle hasn’t made the playoffs in 20 years. They’ve got to try when they have a shot. This looks like a white flag.
kinda think the -49 run differential might be the white flag…
[kinda think the -49 run differential might be the white flag…]
Also, consider:
>23-8 in one run games
>10-1 in extra inning games
To me those two stats just scream “Regression to the Mean.”
The Mariners are exciting to watch in the way that all young, athletic teams are–They often play over their heads, particularly at home, they often make sensational plays, and they will make more than their share of bone-headed plays. IOW, they are learning at the Major League level. This is probably not their year, but watch out in 2022 or 2023 (As long as Dipoto doesn’t drink his own Master Trader Kool-Aid…).
Trading a CP when you have those close game stats is 100% going to put their inevitable regression on this move.
It helps that the traded closer wasn’t even their best reliever.
I liked this a lot from the Mariners perspective. I see the same positives with Toro that you mentioned in the article. It also seems like Graveman is performing a little over his head at the moment. Appears somewhat classically “buy low, sell high” in that way.
I also look at like before the season, there’s zero chance Seattle gets Toro for Graveman. Now, Graveman’s shown some success out of the bullpen that he hadn’t shown before the season, so I recognize his value is legitimately up. Even so, I like the way Seattle flipped a very modest asset for one with a lot more upside.
Don’t have a place to play Toro? The Mariners are playing Shed Long, Moore, and Jake Bauers at 1b and in the outfield almost every day. This move actually makes the team better in 2021
Not only is he possibly a long-term answer at second or third base he’s a lot better than the options they currently have at first / second (depending on where Ty France is playing, or is he DH’ing now? I can’t keep track). This is a win-in-the-future move but the drop from Graveman to whoever is next in the bullpen might not be as steep as from Toro to Shed Long.
I would think the most reasonable analysis is that Seattle is just as good a team as they were before, and there’s as much a chance this will help them as 2021 as it will hurt.
They’re mainly playing France and Torrens at first with Torrens often slotting into the DH slot and France playing second sometimes.
Right. So he can fake it at 2b instead of Moore or Long or play lf in place of Bauers or Long until Fraley returns.
Came here to write this.
I think the Mariners are going to win this trade by a lot on surplus value. The updated Steamer 600 has Toro as the Mariners 6th best position player. There is risk there, but I’m a little surprised by the dislike for the Mariners side of the deal in the general media.
My guess is that Houston trades/DFAs Montero and nets a 40-man roster spot, adds a setup man in Graveman, and gets a little breathing room so they don’t end up getting compensation draft picks pushed back. I doubt they could have found a deal that helps them better for Smith/Toro at the deadline even if Seattle gets the most overall value in the deal.
I understand entirely why Houston did this deal, because they’ve got some free agents, Toro is a bit of a luxury once Bregman is back, and there’s no obviously dominant team in the AL right now. So yeah, Houston should be losing on surplus value because their needs are more time-sensitive than Seattle’s. It’s a good deal for both sides.
FWIW, most of the people I see not liking the reaction (1) don’t know much about Toro, (2) don’t know much about how Seattle has overperformed. It’s an understandable reaction for a lot of reasons, it’s just also probably not correct.
Eh, with only 37% of the season left to go I’m not sure it matters how much the Ms have overperformed, especially not to fans. Sure, we can sit here, look at the FG ROS projections and say this is probably an 83-win team, but they’re currently 1 game out of the WC2, Oakland’s looking shaky, and the gambler’s fallacy works both ways. The fact that they overperformed for the first 102 games doesn’t mean they won’t also get lucky over the next 60, and this fan base (of which I’m a part) is starved for good news. I’m all for making a few win-now moves so long as the top 6 or so prospects in the organization are off the table for half or 1.5-year rentals.
That said, I’m with you on the deal itself. Every reason to think this trade doesn’t actually make the team worse today, plus the team gets a potential 4-year starter.
I look forward to the Mariners inevitably falling out of the playoff race in the next two months (because they aren’t very good), and everyone pointing to this trade as the reason.
And they’d somewhat be able to justify it. High win % in close games and extra innings can be attributed to having a good CP.
Best case scenario, they still make the playoffs and Graveman shits the bed.
A good closer will help you win more close games, for sure, but a good closer has nothing to do with how frequently a team finds itself in close games.
A bunch of one-run wins doesn’t (necessarily) mean a team’s closer’s so awesome that winning by 1 has become a repeatable team skill. It means the team’s not scoring (or I suppose preventing) enough runs to win comfortably, so it’s probably not as good as its record.
Also, this is a good example of how teams value of players and prospects can vary wildly than what fans think. I would think there would be no chance 6 years of a young position player with promise who has performed well in the upper levels would get traded for a solid reliever who is playing above his peripherals. I wonder if there is something in Toro’s profile that makes Houston not believe in him long term. Whether it’s positional fit, belief in the bat against MLB pitching, etc, I’m sure it’s something.
The trade deadline and various stages of competitive cycle make for some interesting trades. I would not read into Houston trading Toro as a negative indictment on their view of him. Houston wanted a reliever they could trust even with regression, and this was a deal they felt was better than potentially missing out. Seattle gets rewarded for being in the right place at the right time.
I think the team likes Toro (and KG has said as much before), but he is blocked for the foreseeable future by Bregman and they have a handful of prospects like Peña and Leon that profile better at short than either Bregman or Toro should Correa leave.
Apparently Graveman and his wife are also rather vocal anti-vaxxers, advocating that teammates not get the vaccine— I can’t help but think that trading Graveman right now might also be something of a preventative measure in Dipoto’s eyes, or even damaging a division rival if he’s lucky.
I don’t really think that plays into it at all.
Interesting take. But I don’t buy it. At all.
Upvoting not for the thought, but for exposing another anti vax moron.
The M’s season low point (around getting swept by the Padres) also matched up with Graveman to the COVID list. Upper management might not be seeing that as equating to “team player” and “important clubhouse presence” as some criticism of this trade mention.
I’m sure orgs look at vax status, as I am sure the look at everything that is measurable, but it probably factors very little. Is MLB still doing the 85% vaxxed threshold for relaxation of restrictions?
As a long time Mariners fan, I’ve been defending this trade since it happened. They’re not making the postseason as the team stands, they’ve had a -50 or worse run differential all year long (it was briefly -49 going in to last nights game). Nothing about it is sustainable, yet people get so focused on record. Graveman was SUPPOSED to be a 1 year player that they trade at this deadline. People get so emotionally attached to what is currently happening (they’re winning games) that they ignore what they should actually expect. It’s a long season, even the worst teams string some wins together. Seattle typically does it near the end of the year to accomplish nothing but have a worse draft position (I’m not salty at all hahaha), they just happened to do it right before the trade deadline. They’re more than a piece or two from truly contending, I’d rather see decent long term pieces added as opposed to holding on to relievers!
I can justify this theoretically. But when you have the longest post season drought in pro sports, do you really want to do this? Within the division no less
Well said.
I know the fans and players would’ve lost their minds, but the Mariners really should’ve traded Mitch Haniger before the deadline too. There’s no room for him in the outfield next year between Kelenic, Lewis, Rodriguez, and Fraley and this was the maximum point of Haniger’s trade value.
I know they’re only 2.5 back of the A’s for a Wild Card, but frankly the Mariners are not ready to compete this year. Trying to win now is stupid. It’s not worth altering your whole strategy to build a contender on an ill-advised gamble that you will outperform both the Yankees and A’s for the rest of this season when the team is just average. The Yankees just cleaned up on deadline acquisitions (as always) and they will crush the Mariners in the second half. Both the A’s and the Yankees are currently much better teams than the Mariners.
Let the fans be mad. Let the players be mad. Sorry to say this but they don’t know what it takes to build a winner and that causes them to get mad over dumb things. Always do the moves that make the team better regardless of their reaction.
They won’t be mad when we win a World Series in three years.