The Jays Put a Springer in Their Step
One of the big puzzle pieces of this offseason fell firmly into place Tuesday night as the Toronto Blue Jays came to terms on a six-year, $150 million contract with free agent outfielder George Springer. Springer, our second-ranked free agent overall, is coming off a .259/.359/.540, 1.9 WAR season in the abbreviated 2020, enough to make him a highly desired player despite the fact that he’ll turn 32 at the end of the 2021 season.
It seems almost like yesterday when I was fielding questions in my chat about whether Springer was a highly touted prospect-turned-bust after a rough first two weeks in the majors that featured a sub-.500 OPS and strikeouts in a third of his plate appearances. In fact, my standard, curt “April” reply originated in response to the initial panic caused by his slow debut. As one would expect from a player with his pedigree, April showers brought May power, and by the end of his second month in the bigs, Springer’s seasonal OPS was up to a much healthier mark in the mid-.800s. His OPS stayed at or above .800 until he was finally stopped in July due to a quad injury that cost him the rest of the 2014 season.
That was pretty much the last thing that stopped him. Starting in 2015, his first full season, Springer hit .274/.363/.494 and 154 homers and 24.7 WAR for the Astros. That’s not even counting his playoff appearances, another half-season of the highest-leverage baseball you can find, where Springer flourished, hitting .269/.349/.546 over those 63 postseason games. His 19 postseason home runs are currently tied for fourth in major league history, though admittedly, there are a lot more playoff games now than when Ted Williams played. All told, Springer’s performance has easily put him in the top 10 among outfielders in recent years.
| Name | HR | AVG | OBP | SLG | wOBA | wRC+ | WAR |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| Mike Trout | 204 | .303 | .432 | .605 | .428 | 177 | 46.8 |
| Mookie Betts | 150 | .301 | .374 | .526 | .379 | 136 | 38.4 |
| Christian Yelich | 138 | .299 | .386 | .513 | .381 | 140 | 28.5 |
| Bryce Harper | 177 | .278 | .403 | .536 | .392 | 144 | 26.6 |
| George Springer | 154 | .274 | .363 | .494 | .366 | 135 | 24.7 |
| Lorenzo Cain | 61 | .293 | .358 | .424 | .339 | 110 | 19.9 |
| Charlie Blackmon | 150 | .309 | .369 | .530 | .379 | 122 | 19.4 |
| J.D. Martinez | 191 | .298 | .369 | .571 | .391 | 145 | 19.4 |
| Aaron Judge | 119 | .272 | .390 | .558 | .396 | 151 | 18.8 |
| Giancarlo Stanton | 158 | .265 | .353 | .553 | .377 | 140 | 18.0 |
| Marcell Ozuna | 140 | .279 | .342 | .475 | .347 | 119 | 16.7 |
| Cody Bellinger | 123 | .273 | .364 | .547 | .375 | 137 | 16.7 |
| Starling Marte | 84 | .289 | .340 | .452 | .339 | 113 | 16.4 |
| Kevin Kiermaier | 61 | .245 | .306 | .408 | .307 | 94 | 16.0 |
| Michael Conforto | 118 | .259 | .358 | .484 | .358 | 128 | 16.0 |
| Brett Gardner | 89 | .253 | .340 | .410 | .326 | 104 | 15.9 |
| Tommy Pham | 82 | .274 | .370 | .463 | .358 | 127 | 15.5 |
| Jackie Bradley Jr. | 94 | .247 | .331 | .438 | .329 | 102 | 15.0 |
| Andrew McCutchen | 115 | .268 | .365 | .455 | .352 | 122 | 14.7 |
| Adam Eaton | 54 | .283 | .363 | .425 | .343 | 114 | 14.0 |
Now, Springer’s not Trout, and he’s not Betts, either. But do you think you’re getting Trout or Betts for under $30 million a year as free agents, even at 31? Remember, ZiPS knows if you’re lying.
While Springer’s no spring chicken, he also has the benefit of not starting out on the easy side of the defensive spectrum. You’d have to give me some pretty big odds to plunk money down on him being a competent center fielder by 2025 or 2026, but he’s perfectly adequate there right now. Springer’s faster than you’d expect from his traditional speed statistics like stolen bases — his sprint speed in 2020 was just behind players like Betts and Dee Strange-Gordon — but he’s not reliant on speed to play his position well. When the time comes to start playing right field full-time, I expect he’ll still retain significant defensive value there and not need to go straight to DHing.
| Year | BA | OBP | SLG | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | SO | SB | OPS+ | DR | WAR |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 2021 | .283 | .364 | .534 | 506 | 98 | 143 | 24 | 2 | 33 | 97 | 59 | 109 | 5 | 140 | 2 | 4.7 |
| 2022 | .280 | .361 | .527 | 478 | 90 | 134 | 24 | 2 | 30 | 89 | 54 | 100 | 4 | 137 | 2 | 4.2 |
| 2023 | .273 | .351 | .501 | 455 | 81 | 124 | 22 | 2 | 26 | 79 | 50 | 92 | 4 | 128 | 1 | 3.4 |
| 2024 | .267 | .344 | .466 | 431 | 73 | 115 | 19 | 2 | 21 | 69 | 45 | 84 | 3 | 118 | 0 | 2.5 |
| 2025 | .257 | .328 | .436 | 404 | 63 | 104 | 17 | 2 | 17 | 59 | 38 | 74 | 3 | 105 | 0 | 1.7 |
| 2026 | .250 | .317 | .404 | 376 | 55 | 94 | 14 | 1 | 14 | 50 | 32 | 63 | 3 | 94 | -1 | 0.9 |
| Percentile | BA | OBP | SLG | AB | R | H | 2B | 3B | HR | RBI | BB | SO | SB | OPS+ | WAR |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 90% | .300 | .392 | .629 | 496 | 106 | 149 | 28 | 3 | 43 | 115 | 69 | 88 | 9 | 171 | 6.7 |
| 80% | .292 | .380 | .590 | 500 | 104 | 146 | 26 | 3 | 39 | 108 | 65 | 96 | 7 | 158 | 5.9 |
| 70% | .291 | .376 | .570 | 502 | 103 | 146 | 25 | 2 | 37 | 103 | 63 | 100 | 6 | 152 | 5.5 |
| 60% | .287 | .369 | .552 | 505 | 100 | 145 | 25 | 2 | 35 | 101 | 60 | 105 | 6 | 146 | 5.2 |
| 50% | .283 | .364 | .534 | 506 | 98 | 143 | 24 | 2 | 33 | 97 | 59 | 109 | 5 | 140 | 4.7 |
| 40% | .280 | .359 | .524 | 508 | 97 | 142 | 24 | 2 | 32 | 94 | 57 | 112 | 5 | 136 | 4.5 |
| 30% | .278 | .355 | .510 | 510 | 96 | 142 | 24 | 2 | 30 | 92 | 55 | 117 | 4 | 131 | 4.2 |
| 20% | .275 | .350 | .488 | 512 | 94 | 141 | 23 | 1 | 28 | 88 | 53 | 125 | 4 | 125 | 3.8 |
| 10% | .272 | .345 | .471 | 514 | 93 | 140 | 22 | 1 | 26 | 85 | 51 | 132 | 3 | 119 | 3.4 |
ZiPS is actually quite bullish — more than I am — that Springer will remain decent in center throughout the contract. ZiPS ages the various components of defense separately when it makes a defensive projection for modern players. Eventually, I hope to integrate even more of this kind of thing with the additional breakdowns of various aspects of defense that Statcast brings to the table, but more time is needed for that. Regardless, ZiPS sees Springer’s lack of reliance on speed as a positive for his defensive projections in center. By contrast, ZiPS sees Tim Locastro, a very speed-dependent player, losing significantly more defensive value in center over the next five years than Springer.
From the standpoint of cruel efficiency, $150 million is probably a bit of an overpay on Toronto’s part (ZiPS would suggest six years, $130 million). But there are important caveats in this case that I think more than cancel this out. While I stand by the notion that the going rate for a win has gone down in this depressed market (I’m using $7 million, similar to how I’ve measured recent offseasons), I’m not sure that’s actually the case for someone who is a legitimate star. I don’t think the Mookie Betts contract or the figures being bandied about for a theoretical Fernando Tatis Jr. extension are outliers. One of the curious things about free agency is that projected wins and salary have had a highly linear relationship over the last 40-plus years, even though they really shouldn’t have this kind of relationship. (My colleague Craig Edwards explored this a year ago in this very space.) When I model recent years, I do see a case for a transition to non-linearity beginning in the projections, and I expect in this environment, with just a few stars available and nearly everyone pinching pennies, that this will escalate. I don’t know for a fact that is the case, and we’ll need a few more years to be sure, but I expect that wins one and two are getting cheaper, while wins three and up are getting considerably more expensive.
It’s also important to note that the Blue Jays are in a position to get a greater benefit from a Springer signing than the average team, meaning they ought to be willing to pay more for his services than the average team. When I ran the numbers for the league after the Lindor trade last week, the Blue Jays came up as the American League team that saw the biggest boost in playoff probability by adding five wins to the ledger, going from 26% to 53%. Springer doesn’t quite add five wins, even over the first season — he’s not quite a five-win player, and the Blue Jays weren’t Rockies-bad in the outfield — but he does add just a hair under four on average.
| Team | W | L | GB | Pct | Div% | WC% | Playoff% | WS% |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| New York Yankees | 94 | 68 | — | .580 | 58.4% | 28.8% | 87.1% | 11.4% |
| Tampa Bay Rays | 89 | 73 | 5 | .549 | 27.3% | 41.2% | 68.5% | 6.3% |
| Toronto Blue Jays | 87 | 75 | 7 | .537 | 13.5% | 34.8% | 48.3% | 3.6% |
| Boston Red Sox | 77 | 85 | 17 | .475 | 0.8% | 5.8% | 6.6% | 0.3% |
| Baltimore Orioles | 67 | 95 | 27 | .414 | 0.0% | 0.1% | 0.1% | 0.0% |
Signing Springer puts Toronto into the thick of the Wild Card hunt without needing much in the way of additional help. It also opens up a lot more scenarios in which the Blue Jays take the AL East, important under our current playoff structure. After all, the Rays just traded Blake Snell and the Yankees have a rotation that’s very reliant on Gerrit Cole. Even if the Jays don’t do anything else, this is at least enough to make Tampa Bay and New York look over their shoulders a lot more often, and there have been no indications given that Toronto’s finished.
And once again, yes, Springer is 31. This is already accounted for in the projections. Here’s one last chart demonstrating this, projecting his six-year contract assuming different current ages.
| 2021 Age | ZiPS Projected Six-Year Salary ($M) |
|---|---|
| 33 | 90.0 |
| 32 | 108.6 |
| 31 | 130.4 |
| 30 | 157.2 |
| 29 | 176.3 |
| 28 | 190.3 |
| 27 | 217.7 |
| 26 | 234.1 |
The Blue Jays are already getting the age-related discount for Springer; if he were 26 right now, he’d have been a more desirable free agent than Bryce Harper was the year he joined the Phillies (ZiPS suggests a 10-year, $307 million contract in that case).
While it doesn’t affect my overall evaluation as an analyst, I can’t say I’m sad to see Springer get a bit of a bonus given that the Astros played the same game with him that the Cubs did with Kris Bryant, effectively getting his services for seven years instead of six.
With the deal, Toronto moves into serious contender territory, George Springer gets his payday, and we finally see some positive movement in baseball’s molasses-like free agent market. Even a curmudgeon like me can’t find much to complain about here. Thumbs up.
Dan Szymborski is a senior writer for FanGraphs and the developer of the ZiPS projection system. He was a writer for ESPN.com from 2010-2018, a regular guest on a number of radio shows and podcasts, and a voting BBWAA member. He also maintains a terrible Twitter account at @DSzymborski.
Welp. Guess Straw is gonna have to take over center for us;
P.S. Myles please start eating a “balanced breakfast”
This sums up my thoughts pretty well. The contract works as long as he is in center field. When he isn’t in center field at the end of the contract, you’re going to have to rely on the good memories to keep you warm. So it’s a bit of an overpay, and one that will (probably) happily overlook the next two seasons and constantly bring up the last two seasons of the contract.
The main issue I have with this deal is that it makes the Jays challengers but not really contenders. They probably think they’re done but I would want them to still make a run at Trevor Bauer or another top pitcher to give them more certainty in the rotation, but I would be a little afraid if I were a Jays fan that this is it.
Bauer, a monster trade, or Vladito and Bo go Troutian.
Or Pearson blooms.
Still a bit short on paper but stuff happens.
Hard to see them signing the biggest free agent deal in franchise history and then calling it a day. And if the rumours about them still being on Brantley are true, that’ll create an OF surplus, along with their existing catching surplus, from which to trade from for arms. Feels more to me like they’re just getting started. The question is who’s next?
They just signed Brantley maybe they trade Gurriel for pitching?
If so, it’s not going to be a #2 or #3 going back. Because Gurriel and Hernandez aren’t stars and aren’t pitchers they aren’t that valuable, despite the appealing contracts. They’re not getting Kyle Hendricks or Sonny Gray for Gurriel (or if they did, it would be a huge heist)
Maybe they think Gurriel can play 3rd base?
I think you overestimate the competence of management in Cincinnati
If they were willing to move Gurriel they could’ve had Carrasco.
Cleveland asked about him.
False alarm. Apparently Brantley liked Texas’s low tax rate. 😉
Springer preferred Canada’s health system 😉
And tax rate?
With his track record of dings it might make sense for him.
But if he gets a major one he’ll likely travel south. 😀
I was thinking the same thing. Then we found out Brantley was premature call and he resigned with the Astros.
I figured Gurriel or Teo, plus a catching prospect could probably fetch a nice starting pitcher.
Springer has only played in 150+ games once, and 140 on 2 other occasions during his physical prime. I do not see the backend of this deal working out so well as he ages given his baseline not-great injury history and then injury risk & associated performance decline becoming exacerbated over time.
However, I like this deal a lot for them from the perspective of the next 2 years, and kudos to the Jays for going for it within the window of when further steps forward are anticipated of their young core players. They will be a really exciting team to watch over the next few seasons.
Yeah he has not been the model of health, but it looks like that is built into the projections. The question is whether the injuries will sap his athleticism.
Hey Dan, any chance in the future that you’ll either release a Top 50 Free Agents piece or collaborate with Craig on his and incorporate the ZIPs projected contracts?
Great to see. As a Jays fan I can’t help but be excited. Now we wait for the next shoe to drop – will the Jays keep on the free agent market (Bauer?) or will they trade one of their surplus OF’ers (Grichuk ideally, but more likely Gurriel or Hernandez) for 3B or P help? Who can they get for that realistically? 3B is a disaster zone right now (Vlad at 3B? I think I speak for all Jay pitchers when I say ‘oh god, please no’) but with the group of prospects coming up it might be a 1 or 2 year solution that is needed there. Pitching everyone always is after in these days of a 13 man staff.
I don’t think you want whatever player Grichuk brings back.
Roster Resource has the Jays at only $116M payroll after the Springer and Yates signings. In a normal year, Jays’ revenues are around $275M, so if they can do 50% of that in payroll in a chase for the playoffs, the Jays have $20M/year left to spend. That’s easily enough to sign a Semien or Turner to play 3B or Tanaka at SP. Maybe they stretch a little to grab Bauer? They did go to $182M in payroll in 2016 after all, on only $278M in revenue!
Dan mentioned that the Angels are in on Bauer but their normal revenues are around $375M and they’re already at $178M in payroll. So maybe they have another $10M to spend? Arte Moreno showed early in his ownership that he didn’t care about spending money and went for broke on Pujols and Vernon Wells. (LOL!) He was a hardliner in the pandemic season negotiations so I see them as less likely than the Jays on Bauer.
Gotta calculate in future years though. They have some guys who are going to need to be extended, and their only proven starter is 33 with a long injury history. They’re going to need to spend next off-season too, and mid-season.
Their revenue is highly discounted because the owners Rogers control the TV rights. The Jays have the highest TV viewership in all of MLB every year and it’s not even close. In fact in their playoff years, they had 4x the viewers of the second place team. Comparing their viewership to other recently signed TV deals, it’s not hard to come up with a $1B/yr valuation just for their TV deal (go do the math!). Point is there’s lots of money to spend!
They also have a 53,500 seat stadium, good for second. As recently as 2016 they were 3rd in attendance after the Dodgers and St. Louis. They also have the radio rights in the major cities, to really chase that last dollar.
Have you calculated currency exchange rates into this equation, Natescavich?
It’s based on $/viewer comparing to the most recent US deals, so the Canadian currency doesn’t factor in. In 2020, the Jays averaged 500,000 viewers on TV per game (source Forbes). Yankees 260k, Dodgers 234k. Every other team below 200k. The Jays have a higher TV audience than the Yankees and Dodgers combined.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/maurybrown/2020/10/04/mlb-sees-local-tv-and-streaming-viewership-up-over-4-for-2020/?sh=567073873dac
It’s been clear for decades that Toronto needs to pay a premium to convince players to sign outside the US, which I’ve learned to accept as a fan. I would have much preferred the contract at 5/$125 or 6/$130, but I think the Jays were forced to blow the next highest bid out of the water to overcome the lack of appeal from playing in Canada.
Completely agree, we saw this very clearly in the Russ Martin signing. You see the same thing with the Toronto Raptors. Generally you need to beat the next best offer by a margin otherwise players aren’t coming here.
I’m sure taxes & exchange rate play a part in that.
Sad thing is Toronto is an awesome city. Clean, vibrant downtown, right on Lake Ontario, beautiful in the summer, just like all the northern cities. Better than Chicago, IMO.
I think income taxes are consistently overlooked by sportswriters. Ontario gets to a marginal rate of 46%+ in a hurry (vs ~37% in Texas or Florida).
Without working through the ‘jock tax’ math for road games, it’s probably a reasonable back of the envelope to say that the Blue Jays have to pay ~15% more for the players to break even after that drag.
(And that’s before factoring in any currency hedging costs, albeit not huge ones, for players who ultimately want USD exposure and not CAD – which is how I assume the Jays play their players, but I’m not certain).
I left Canada for the US 20 years ago for the exact reasons you state above. It has been an absolute financial windfall for me, and I don’t make athlete money.
Good for you Kevin, glad the change in scenery is working out for you and hope it continues. If it doesn’t however and you require medical care in the future you might have a very different opinion. People always forget those taxes are going towards a lot of things that have real value to people, the communities they live in and the country as a whole. Including but not limited to universal healthcare, that is just one of the major items.
A large majority of Canadians do not have any problem with the tax rate, thank you very much. We’ve seen more than enough of a decline in important things we all take for granted that happens when certain governments cut taxes over the last 30+ years. We want a healthy society for our kids and grandkids, not to leave a legacy of decrepit infrastructure, environment, poor education and healthcare, and lack of prospects for any but the privileged few.
Ah, Canadian healthcare fear mongering is alive and well. For a family of 4, Cobra healthcare in the US costs about $600-$800/mo., which is less than half of the extra taxes I was paying in Canada. I think I can afford even better healthcare than that with the extra $2-million in lifetime earnings going into my pocket rather than Jean Chretien’s pocket, or whoever the current Prime Minister is.
Very happy for you, hope you are saving it up. As anyone who has worked with or otherwise had experience with insurance knows well, it is one thing to have “coverage” and another to successfully make a claim. Once you’ve dealt with out of pocket costs, exclusions, and finding a “preferred” care provider plus the nightmare of actually filing a claim you might not feel so content with your options.
And should you ever lose your coverage, best of luck to you. You’re on your own unless you can crowdfund effectively.
I note you also ignored the other societal benefits from taxes I mentioned.
Yes, this is about right. The US health insurance system costs the individual about the same amount as in Canada until you get seriously ill, and then hopefully you’ve been saving up.
It probably isn’t quite that much when it is averaged out across the population that gets health insurance through employers/COBRA vs people in Canada with the equivalent, but some people get really screwed and others have about the same experience in terms of costs.
And that’s before we get to the population that need to buy healthcare on the exchanges, which is notably quite a bit more expensive (although the exchanges are still light-years better than what was going on before!).
Health care in Canada is a pretty good system in most provinces, where it’s partially privatized but virtually no one gets screwed like in the US. Doctors make a whole lot less, though.
Healthcare is kind of a tangent for baseball players. A single day on an MLB roster gives you healthcare for life, and it’s probably not a discount insurance. The MLBPA is kinda awesome that way.
I think healthcare matters to baseball players just a little less than taxes do. In other words, about zero.
Ballplayers get Concierge Medicine. It’s part of their compensation package. Doctor Andrews and his brethren don’t take medicare. 😀
(Let’s not forget MLB ballplayets are millionaireS.)
I love how this guy acts like universal, tax payer funded healthcare isnt the global standard lol.
Well, in the OECD it is.
Guys, can we just stay out of the politics stuff? It just ends with all of you hating me instead of some.
The Jays pay their players in USD. All Canadian teams in the major leagues do (ie: Raptors, NHL teams, etc). The player unions aren’t idiots.
The Mets were the other team on Springer, so the comparison is vs NYC’s 49.7%.
Let’s actually look at teams that spend money, rather than suggesting we’re competing against Florida teams for free agents. Dodgers 50.3%, Giants 50.3%, Padres 50.3%, Yankees 49.7%, Red Sox 42%, Nationals 45.95%.
Another significant point to consider, especially if you’ve got a family, Toronto has the lowest violent crime rate in baseball.
13% sales tax doesn’t help.
I think the story is probably cultural rather than taxes / exchange rates. The US dollar goes farther in Canada and obviously goes as far in the US as with any other team. With relatively few exceptions like Zack Greinke we don’t see players particularly averse to playing in California (by far the worst income tax state, I think worse than Ontario) or particularly in love with playing in Florida or Texas (the best places in terms of income tax).
I think it’s just off their radar, being in another country. When people think of MLB, they think of the US. Players are probably no different. I think if they actually spent some time here it wouldn’t matter, since Toronto is probably no more different (and maybe even less different) from Chicago as Chicago is from Miami, but Toronto is just outside the range of what they would consider “normal”.
It’s not just the state. City taxes are a factor and NYC is high there. But NY state tax collectors are very aggressive.
Yes. I am skeptical that a millionaire who gets paid in salary like Springer is going to get much more (if any) take-home pay in NYC than Toronto. The difference is that NYC is “New York City” and Toronto is in another country.
I’m pretty sure the NYC income tax is a resident tax only and does not apply to individuals who work in the City but reside outside of it.
And on the resident front, I think a lot of players (vets in particular) choose to domicile in Florida and Arizona (around spring training locations), partially due to tax status.
And weather.
Players on cold weather teams don’t typically winter in the snow belt.
Better than Chicago is a very low bar. Though, I agree, Toronto a nice enough city in the Summer. But, the taxes and exchange rate are unfavorable and not offset by the market size as they are in high tax areas in California and New York.
Exchange rate is not the issue: they get paid in US greenbacks.
Yeah and I just looked it up–tax burden in Ontario is comparable to California for top earners. So it’s high but it’s not *that* high. Compared to NYC, it’s a little higher (53.5% vs 50%). In Florida it’s about 41%.
I think the bottom line is that if taxes really were that big a deal you would see a lot more players willing to take lower salaries from Houston / Dallas than in NY or CA, when it seems like geography plays little role unless you’re like Charlie Morton and only want to play close to home.
I lived in Toronto for 5 years. I don’t want to hurt any feelings but to this newcomer it didn’t seem a particularly awesome city. There are a lot of great things about Toronto, but there are a lot of drawbacks too.
Hey, that’s Buffalo Blue Jays to you mister…
Seems to be really highly paid…hmm those last 2 years on his contract look like an albatross. Blue Jays really need to make the playoffs in the first 4 years of this contract!
I’m not upset that the Mets didn’t match this offer. 6 years $150 million is a lot of money for someone as old as Springer is. I think Bradley would be a nice fallback. I don’t love the idea of pushing one of Nimmo or Smith to the bench in the case that there’s not a DH next year but there’s only so many spots to go around and the defensive upgrade over Nimmo last year would be huge.
A Bradley / Marisnick combo isn’t an efficient use of roster space but would work very well for them.
Bradley has been a consistently below-average hitter over his last three full seasons, is right at the age where his defence (which is his only real strength) would be expected to significantly decline, and signing him would result in an entirely left-handed outfield for the Mets. How is he a “nice fallback”? He’s a high-risk, low-reward move.
Agreed. JBJ is the Wilpons move that gets done because of his “long track record of success” and he’s cheap, despite the fact that projections say you’re paying for a different player. Nimmo does not need to lose playing time to Bradley.
Admittedly, there is nothing in the laws of man or God against throwing a corner outfielder in CF, but I would have thought Mets fans would be tired of that by now.
Bradley’s name keeps coming up because he’s better than Pillar, no one knows if guys like Cain or Starling Marte or Akiyama are available, and because no one knows what the Rays will accept for Kiermaier and Cain. Nothing more complicated than that.
Who cares if all the outfielders are left-handed? Lindor’s a switch hitter, Davis is right handed (he’s in line to start at 3rd as things stand right now) Alonso’s right handed, McCann and Nido are both right-handed. That’s four starting spots who aren’t strictly left-handed. And even if Bradley’s defense falls off a cliff, he’d still be better defensively than Nimmo. Marisnick would also be fine I guess but he shouldn’t be starting against righties.
Well, I presumed you would care if you wanted the Mets to win games. They were completely unable to handle left-handed pitching last year because of their lineup. And if Bradley becomes mediocre at defense then he’s going to average out as a below-replacement level player, meaning he’s actively hurting the team when he’s on the field.
The Mets were 7th in MLB in both wOBA and wRC+ last season.
I don’t wanna look up how many lefty starters the Mets faced in 2020 but I remember it being an unusually high number. I don’t know what else you want the team to do to address CF but under no circumstances should Brandon Nimmo be playing CF in the Major Leagues. I can’t emphasize enough how bad of a CF he is. Conforto should be in a corner too, Heredia shouldn’t be starting every day (if at all).
Kiermaier and Bradley are pretty much the same player and I assume if you’re scared about Bradley losing his defensive value you’re also scared about KK losing his. They could re-sign Marisnick but you’re probably scared about his defensive numbers falling off too. He’s bad against righties so he shouldn’t be an every day player either.
I took the time to look up Mets LHH starters and JBJ’s numbers against LHP so I’m just including them here.
Dominic Smith
2020- .283/.391/.509
64 PA
Career- .237/.331/.415
157 PA
Michael Conforto
2020- .284/.384/.486
86 PA
Career- .232/.311/.408
647 PA
Brandon Nimmo
2020- .196/.317/.333
60 PA
Career- .243/.358/.399
319 PA
Jeff McNeil
2020- .303/.368/.379
76 PA
Career- .303/.367/.436
294 PA
Jackie Bradley Jr.
2020- .288/.391/.508
69 PA
Career- .236/.318/.367
963 PA
The mets look to have ample offense, especially if the DH returns, so a glove first CF is easy to carry. Plus he’ll be cheaper and can be had on a short deal, possibly one year.
Flexibility is the buzz word du jour with the CBA negotiations looming on top of the pandemic.
Not to be overly picky, but I think you can add the White Sox to the list of Jays, Mets and Padres as teams that are trying to win. Assuming that there is a 1:1 correlation between spending and trying to win. Which there isn’t.
Meh. Speaking as a CHW fan, they’re trying to be good, but they could be blowing the doors off the American League and are choosing not to. Hendriks is great, but only $4.5M/year more than Colomé was. Going with a Eaton/Engel RF platoon will probably be okay, but pretty unlikely to produce more than 2.5 WAR, and they certainly could’ve afforded this Springer contract and locked up RF long-term.
They’re apparently giving the DH job to their top prospect Vaughn, when they could give Brantley 3 years or Cruz 1 year, for immediate production. They’re also content with their backup catcher being one of Collins or Mercedes, who should both hit but are in reality horrendous defensive catchers.
Lynn is a good acquisition, but the backend of the rotation has a very low floor, and they could stand to sign a pitcher, like, say, Quintana, in the likely event that their new pitching coach Katz doesn’t instantly get two healthy, quality, consistent starters out of the frustrating Kopech/Cease/Lopez trio.
TL;DR the White Sox could easily be trying to win much more than they currently are.
I’m not even a Cardinal or Cleveland fan, but as a St. Louis native who now lives in Cleveland, it’s annoying watching neither of those teams, who could have desperately used him, not even enter the conversation because cost cutting. Rather be outbid than not even be involved.
Dunno about the cards but Springer’s AAV would effectively double the Spiders’ budget. And his age? 31 is when Cleveland starts ditching players, not signing them long term.
I agree, but the upgrade it would give their miserable OF productivity and weak power supply would be substantia.
Cleveland is still haunted by the ghosts of Nick Swisher and Michael Bourn…
Hi Dan, I’m very confused that the Rays still are 2 games better than the Jays per your table but the Depth chart graphics show that the Jays would be 44 war (with springer) to the Rays 37 War. I get adding war is not a perfect way to add to wins but why have the graphics if they have are off by so much. Yankees are in the 50 war total range but only 2 wins better than the Rays. What does ZIPS love so much about the Rays team but not their player WAR totals?
Well, for one, it’s a Steamer mix and a different methodology. The one I use more stress-tests a team’s depth, so deep teams tend to come out better.
Thanks for the reply. I figured it had to do with the rays depth just surprised it’s making that much of an impact. There are only so many at-bats and innings to pitch. I would think depth would have diminishing returns fairly quickly. How often does a team without a player projected to have over 3 War or Pitcher over 3.1 win 87+ games. High floor, low ceiling kind of teams…
As a Rays fan the Rays are always more than the sum of their parts. Projection systems also tend to low-ball Rays players (because of playing time, park factors, etc.). I would put a greater than 50% chance that Brandon Lowe, Randy Aroz, and Meadows are going to be worth 3+ WAR next year.
Also as Dan mentioned depth. It’s almost unheard of for a team to go injury-free throughout the year. The Rays have basically an entire extra team of league-average players to sub in in case of injuries. That makes a big difference over 162.
Cool so now they have Springer, Brantley, Gurriel, Vladito, Tellez, Hernandez, and Grichuk, to play five spots. I think they must believe Vladito (or maybe Gurriel) can play third.
They may be thinking, “hey, we had E5 over there for years, how bad can it be?”
(Although Vlad might be even worse over there, and hasn’t shown to be his equal at the plate yet, either)
Buffalo calling?
Edwin actually didnt play that much 3B in Toronto. Only 184 games in 4 1/2 years. Only eclisped 45 games at 3B once in TO.
And, oddly enough, he was not terrible the one year year he did mostly 3B for them (2010).
You’re right on all of the above of course. His reputation proceeded him and was mostly gained from some rather brutal years in Cincy before coming over.
I would have to think that either Vlad or Gurriel will be manning third or one of Gurriel, Tellez or Teoscar are on the move. Otherwise, I’m not sure how this al fits together.
Right, Grichuk is probably not going anywhere except for a similarly unappealing production / salary combination, Tellez is pretty unknown and so probably isn’t going anywhere, and it doesn’t make sense to ship off both Gurriel and Teoscar and play Grichuk unless they are especially worried about defense in a corner. This is not really a “problem” in any normal sense but it sure is odd.
Roster Resource currently has Grichuk on the bench, Springer/Teoscar/Gurriel in the OF, and Brantley at DH. Tellez at 1B, Vladito at 3B and Biggio/Bichette up the IF middle. They also have Jansen starting at C with McGuire on the bench and Kirk in the minors. They also have 43 players on their 40-man roster. I think it is more likely that McGuire gets released, Kirk starts and Jansen heads to the bench, but we’ll see. That still leaves 2 spots on the 40-man to clear out. Maybe they already have a handshake agreement in place to trade one of Grichuk, Teoscar or Gurriel for a pitcher? I could see several teams being interested in Gurriel or Teoscar as young(ish) cost controlled players on the rise. Assuming some future one-for-one trade though, that still means the Jays need to give two guys the boot (assuming McGuire is released) from the 40-man.
I was just wondering about this as well; Gurriel back on the IF would be headscratching, since he moved to OF cause the yips. Vlad really has lost a ton of weight and, “best shape of his life” narrative aside, maybe it…no nevermind. Never buy into BSOHL for hope lol
Grichuk, Tellez, and Hernandez aren’t exactly guys you worry about having room for
Well, Grichuk is costing them a bit and you seem to be underrating Tellez and Hernandez a bit. Teoscar was excellent last year, and Tellez has definitely earned at bats.
Yeah, Grichuk is a very expensive fourth outfielder for almost any team right now. He’s not going anywhere. That would leave them needing to move Hernandez or Tellez, which is not such a big deal.
Frankly, they would be really wise to move Hernandez if they can get a taker who thinks his 2020 batting line will continue. His production is extremely volatile because he walks so little and strikes out so much. I don’t know that there are any teams out there that are big enough suckers at this point to prorate out his 2020 line to a 40+ homer season but maybe someone thinks he is a 30-homer guy.
Ha never mind, Brantley’s going back to Houston. Must have been the low tax rate. 😉
Seems to me that a comparison with the DJ LeMahieu contract would be interesting. Players with similar values, at similar ages and contracts of the same length. but an overall difference of $60,000,000.
Springer’s biggest issue is whether or not he can stay in CF long term, but otherwise there’s no reason to think he won’t hit well into his mid-30s. LeMahieu has more of a contact-based approach at the plate, which makes projecting his mid-30s far more of a risky proposition
“The second thing to go is the knees. “
Who could have predicted being elite in 6 out of 7 seasons gets you paid way more than
being elite in 3 out of 9 seasons.
LeMahieu has been nothing but fantastic recently, but I am probably not the only one making comparisons to Daniel Murphy’s short-lived renaissance.
So… Springer actually signed with the Astros.
https://twitter.com/Buster_ESPN/status/1352002585415327744
https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/1351958293518934017
https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/1352003161431699462
I’m like 95% sure that George Springer and Michael Brantley are different people. They spell and pronounce their names differently.
You’re probably right.
BUT HAVE YOU EVER SEEN THEM IN THE SAME ROOM AT THE SAME TIME…
oh you have? Well, fiddlesticks…
I appreciate that you left a 5% chance for dopplegangers.
I wonder which is the good guy and which the evil one. I need Rowdy Roddy Piper’s special sunglasses for this…
Dan, thanks again for your work. Can you please elaborate a little on how the speed-dependence vs. non-speed-dependence works with respect to defensive projections?