The Mariners and Going All-In
The Mariners are a decidedly mediocre team. They are 51-52. They have averaged 4.7 runs per game and given up an average of 4.8 runs per game. Their BaseRuns record is actually one game worse than their actual record, but that’s pretty darn close. They are projected to win half of their remaining games. When you include baserunning, their offense is 15th in the majors. Their defense ranks 18th, three runs above average. Their starters rank 23rd in WAR and their relievers 21st.
In other words, nothing about this Mariners team says go for it, yet the team has dipped its toes in that water acquiring bullpen help in the form of David Phelps and a potential bottom-of-the-rotation starter in Marco Gonzales. Despite their mediocrity, there are rumors the Mariners will dive all the way in this season, attempting to acquire Sonny Gray. And, it does make a little sense.
First things first, its best to assess the Mariners in relation to the rest of the Wild Card contenders in the American League. The FanGraphs playoff odds all put the Boston Red Sox, Cleveland Indians, and Houston Astros in the playoffs. Here are the playoff odds for the rest of the teams with at least a 5% chance. Two of these teams will make the playoffs.

The New York Yankees appear to have a really good shot. After that, the Royals have put themselves in good position. Of the rest of the teams, the Rays have about a one in three shot and then the Mariners hold a slim lead over the Rangers followed by the Blue Jays, Angels, and Twins. As you might expect, the number of wins a team is expected to have at the end of the season plays a role in how likely a team is to make the playoffs. Here are the same teams from above with their expected wins at the end of the season.

We have the Yankees at 85, the Royals at 84, Tampa Bay at 82, the Mariners and Rangers at 80, and the rest below that. Those five teams have something in common: they are all expected to win roughly half of their games going forward. The Yankees already have a lead so they are in good shape with the Royals not too far behind. The Rays were projected to be below .500 before trading for Lucas Duda, but now they, too, are expected to win half of their remaining games. It’s important to keep in mind that the projections above are not static. They are based on the talent on hand, and can change pretty significantly when the level of talent changes.
Take a team like the Toronto Blue Jays. They aren’t likely to get back in the race because of their current deficit, but the talent on hand (14.3 ROS WAR) is expected to win about 52% of their games going forward. The Mariners don’t have as much talent on hand with 13.2 ROS WAR projected and as a result, they are expected to win about 50% of their remaining games. So what happens if the Mariners get Sonny Gray, projected for 1.2 WAR the rest of the way? On a talent level basis, they shoot right up to the Blue Jays. All of a sudden, the Mariners are projected to win 31 more games instead of 29 and they jump ahead of the Rays and just two games behind the Royals.
Now let’s say the Mariners added a bat to play first base as well, all of a sudden, they are really close to the Royals. The Mariners also have a series next week against Kansas City as well as a series against the Rays in the middle of August to gain ground on their two closest competitors. Mediocrity in the American League gets you close to the playoffs and it doesn’t take much more than that to make you a favorite. For a team that hasn’t made the playoffs since 2001, making the extra effort this season makes some sense, especially given their long-term outlook.
Seattle’s best players this season by WAR have been James Paxton (3.6), Ben Gamel (2.1), Kyle Seager (2.0), Robinson Cano (2.0), and Jean Segura (2.0). Paxton, Seager, and Segura, are all locked up through at least 2020, and it’s fair to expect continued solid production from them. Cano is locked up well past that, is good this year, but less will be expected of him with each passing season. Gamel doesn’t hit for power and has a .420 BABIP that makes it reasonable to question whether he is much more than a bench bat going forward. Seattle has a decent core to compete over the next few seasons, and their financial situation isn’t quite as bad as you might think given the $50 million plus per season owed to Cano and Felix Hernandez through 2019. But even with this core, they’ve still been a middling team this season, and those players won’t be quite as good as they age.
Seattle has about $100 million committed to 2018 with another $15 million or so in arbitration cases, nearly half that due to David Phelps. Last season, the Mariners ran a payroll close to $170 million and this season, they should get pretty close. That means the Mariners could afford to take on a contract like Justin Verlander’s if they saw fit, but going after a pitcher like Gray might make more sense as they could still use some money in the offseason to fill the holes they are still going to have. Gray is cheap and isn’t likely to make more than $15 million over the next two seasons, so he provides more budgetary wiggle room.
Adding Gray to go with Paxton and a diminished King Felix, along with maybe Gonzales or perhaps Andrew Moore — assuming neither would go to Oakland in trade — is a solid rotation for the rest of this year as the Mariners try to make the playoffs, and it would put them in position to have a good rotation next year if they want to add in free agency. With $30 million or more free for next season the team could add in the rotation or fill in holes at first base or in the outfield. Their farm system isn’t great, and this trade would really hurt them, likely giving up one, if not both, of Kyle Lewis and Nick Neidert, but they aren’t really in a position to conduct a fire sale. Seager and Paxton are their only plus assets with good contracts, and they’re both officially on the back end of their prime years. Plus, they still owe a lot of money to Cano and Hernandez.
Acquiring Sonny Gray allows the Mariners to go all in for this year without sacrificing 2018. It will almost certainly hurt the 2020 and 2021 Mariners, but without a miraculous recovery by the farm system, those will likely be down seasons anyway. The Mariners haven’t been to the playoffs in a long time, and thanks to the rest of the American League, they have a window now, and they should have a window next year. If they really do want to maximize this current window, Gray fits their needs perfectly.
Craig Edwards can be found on twitter @craigjedwards.

I agree. Go for it! Get a first baseman and Sonny Gray for the next couple years. This team realistically only has a few more years before everyone falls off a cliff, and since all their big stars have no trade clauses, you might as well go for it.
You make a lot of sense, Craig. Thanks for the article (and injection of hope). What are the holes in the outfield in your opinion? To me, the biased M’s fan, I really like the 4 we have now.
Their OF has been elite so far this season with Gamel, Dyson, Heredia, and an injured Haniger. One could venture that Haniger should play better than he has going forward, but having 4 2+ WAR outfielders is something I am pretty certain every team would want.
I’ve been thinking this as well. AL West teams, other than the Astros, don’t look to be that good in the near term. Seems like burning down any piece of the farm not already on fire for whatever than can get for the next 2.5 years is the way to go.
Mariners aren’t in a good position to rebuild other than having Paxton. Mariners probably won’t look rebuild until 2019 trade deadline at earliest.
Besides his last start against Boston where he was not quite as sharp, Felix has looked quite a bit better the last few times out there. He still is walking a few too many guys, but maybe that is part of his game now with declining stuff trying to consistenly get guys to chase.
I just don’t understand why they gave up Tyler O’Neill (their #2 prospect) for Marco Gonzales. Gonzales is a barely serviceable #5 starter who is likely no better than Erasmo Ramirez (who they just got by trading away only half a year of mediocre Steve Cishek). Why not just package O’Neill with some other prospects and acquire a SP who is actually good?
Craig’s plan in this article is a good one, but Dipoto really diminished his ability to actually accomplish that plan by trading away O’Neill for a non-impact pitcher a few days ago. Even if Seattle does offer both Neidert and Lewis, it’s not especially likely that Oakland will choose that package over something like Florial and Mateo or Verdugo and Alvarez
If the Dodgers offer Verdugo and Alvarez, that’s going to top anything even close to what the Mariners could have offered, even if they still had Gohara and O’Neill.
Realistically the M’s can’t compete if the Dodgers offer Verdugo, Buehler, or Alvarez; or if the Yankees offer Torres or Frazier ; or if the Astros offer Kyle Tucker. Having O’Neill back probably wouldn’t change that.
But if the Yankees are trying to get Frazier out of the Yankees and are only getting Florial as the headliner instead, being able to offer the A’s O’Neill would have been helpful to separate them from the pack.
It’s definitely a matter of opinion, but I would prefer an O’Neill/Gohara package to Verdugo/Alvarez. I would take O’Neill’s plus power to Verdugo’s plus hitting. And Gohara is younger than Alvarez, and has legitimately worked his way to AA and been dominating, while Alvarez has only been mediocre at lower levels and was promoted to AA for some unknown reason. Still, Alvarez is said to have the higher ceiling, but you have to dream less to see Gohara reaching the level of #3 or better SP in the majors.
I disagree with the idea that a trade for Sonny Gray today would “almost certainly” hurt the 2020-2021 Mariners. Between prospect attrition, and other moves to be made between now and then, including a potential compensation pick from Gray when he goes FA…
Hmm…
Cishek for Erasmo Ramirez suggests they won’t go after Gray…
Or is diPoto working a wheel trade?
Going to be an interesting weekend.
That is an odd trade. Is Dipoto just trying to accumulate as many 5th-7th starter types as possible and see what sticks?
Dave’s article on the O’Neill trade noted a bunch of other ones too. It’s like they’re trying to corner the market on swingmen. I sort of get it in the sense that they’re running out sub-replacement pitchers right now and Ramirez should be at least replacement level.
But if you make it to the playoffs and win the wild-card, then you’re running out Paxton, Hernandez, and ?????? in the playoff rotation. You probably start Yovani Gallardo over Ariel Miranda, Marco Gonzales, and Erasmo Ramirez…and that’s sad.
I just think if the Mariners wanted to upgrade the rotation, they should have saved O’Neill as a secondary piece for a #2-#4 starter.
I don’t disagree. Maybe bullpen game? Who knows. Paxton would pitch the WC game, Hernandez start game 1. I don’t see a team going straight bullpen game(s) in the playoffs, but I wish one would try.
Don’t the Orioles essentially play straight bullpen games every time they’re in the playoffs.
Ariel Miranda is your third starter in that scenario, and it isn’t particularly close. (Your point stands. Why has Jerry been trying so hard to fill the position of #5 starter, when he doesn’t have a #3, or maybe even a #2?)
Orioles are copying Dipoto and reaching the ultimate goal of an entire rotation of 5th starters.
This is good stuff. I do question whether it’s fair to say Paxton is “officially on the back end of (his) prime years.” He has less than 400 innings logged, and while that’s largely due to injuries, there haven’t been a lot of structural arm issues. I think there’s good reason to think he’s could be a #1 or #2 for good long while. I’d like to see them go for it, and would prefer Lewis go over Neidart.
its more like the mariners are calling preflop with a small pocket pair trying to flop a set but unsure how to play the hand if they dont hit.