The Orioles Are Running Out of Lineup Spots

James A. Pittman-USA TODAY Sports

It’s a great time to be a fan of the Baltimore Orioles. This is now the third season since their emergence from the dark basement of the AL East, and they no longer retain their tatterdemalion appearance. The O’s, at 20-11, have been winning by the very straightforward method of beating their opponents into submission, not by collecting more than their fair share of extra-inning and one-run victories. While the pitching staff has been a big part of the team’s success, what has made the Orioles so dangerous is a lineup that leads the American League in runs scored and wRC+. Even better for an O’s fan, they’re terrorizing opposing pitchers with a lineup that’s largely made of players that came up with the franchise and are several years away from hitting free agency. And there’s more on the way, giving the team a rather novel first world problem: having too many hitters and not enough lineup spots.

That the O’s have some of the best young offensive talent in the majors should not be lost on anyone who is into baseball. Adley Rutschman was the runner-up for AL Rookie of the Year in 2022, Gunnar Henderson took the award last year, and Jackson Holliday was the heavy favorite before his poor debut. Holliday could very easily come back and win it in the end, but if he doesn’t, one of the current favorites is yet another young Baltimore left-handed hitter, Colton Cowser. Through Thursday’s games, Cowser stands with the top WAR among AL rookies, with a .277/.351/.578, 164 wRC+ line. I haven’t even mentioned Jordan Westburg, who has an .890 OPS while splitting time between second and third base.

Even with Holliday falling flat in his first 10 games in the majors – something I expect him to rectify in the not-too-distant future – the O’s are leading the league in WAR from players younger than the traditional peak age of 27.

Team Positional Player WAR, 26 and Under
Team PA HR BA OBP SLG wRC+ WAR
Orioles 513 25 .276 .332 .493 137 5.2
Yankees 470 16 .274 .365 .438 135 4.1
Guardians 746 17 .253 .324 .392 109 3.9
Brewers 644 13 .270 .341 .394 111 3.6
Royals 669 20 .237 .302 .406 98 3.0
Nationals 436 11 .267 .324 .413 110 2.5
Rangers 507 11 .252 .332 .396 109 2.1
Reds 502 18 .229 .311 .431 106 2.1
Giants 249 6 .269 .327 .408 113 2.0
Braves 333 4 .280 .351 .377 110 1.8
Padres 451 14 .245 .302 .404 106 1.8
Twins 373 14 .237 .319 .453 122 1.7
Phillies 319 10 .237 .308 .389 98 1.7
Rays 315 9 .262 .334 .397 117 1.6
Tigers 610 16 .216 .301 .372 94 1.5
Diamondbacks 428 5 .245 .331 .346 97 1.2
Astros 260 6 .290 .327 .412 114 1.1
Athletics 615 19 .201 .275 .352 84 0.9
Mariners 199 4 .261 .302 .367 97 0.9
Mets 163 3 .258 .313 .358 98 0.8
Cubs 377 13 .222 .289 .387 91 0.7
Dodgers 149 3 .217 .262 .333 72 0.4
Marlins 270 7 .240 .319 .368 96 0.4
Red Sox 435 13 .220 .281 .391 84 0.3
Blue Jays 435 8 .210 .292 .316 80 0.2
Angels 448 11 .235 .296 .368 90 -0.2
Cardinals 619 10 .203 .277 .315 72 -0.2
Rockies 513 14 .231 .284 .373 71 -0.7
Pirates 476 6 .210 .284 .293 65 -1.0
White Sox 360 6 .195 .243 .299 54 -1.5

In franchise history, including its first year as the Milwaukee Brewers in 1901 and through decades as the St. Louis Browns, the 2023 team ranked seventh in WAR (12.2) from position players younger than 27, and this year’s team is already within shouting distance of halfway to that mark. So naturally, my question is how this team is likely to end up by the end of the season, and whether it would stack up to the best young offensive teams ever. For this, I’ll use our Depth Charts playing time to give plausible estimates of how the O’s will use their lineup for the rest of the season.

Orioles Lineup Projections, 26-and-Under
Player WAR Rest of Season WAR Total
Gunnar Henderson 2.1 5.3 7.4
Adley Rutschman 0.9 4.6 5.5
Jordan Westburg 1.3 2.8 4.1
Colton Cowser 1.3 1.9 3.2
Jackson Holliday -0.3 1.1 0.8
Heston Kjerstad -0.1 0.4 0.3
Coby Mayo 0.0 0.3 0.3
Connor Norby 0.0 0.1 0.1
Total 5.2 16.5 21.7

Even with Depth Charts projecting a much more conservative promotion schedule for Holliday than expected at the start of the season, the O’s have a mean projection of 21.7 WAR from this group of players. That would be the best in team history, edging out the 1973 club with Bobby Grich, Don Baylor, Earl Williams, and Al Bumbry as the headliners. And yes, it’s significant on a historical level as well.

Best AL/NL Teams, 26-and-Under Hitters, 1901-2024
Season Team WAR
1943 Cardinals 29.9
1942 Red Sox 29.6
1912 Athletics 29.3
1910 Athletics 28.3
1941 Yankees 27.8
1928 Giants 25.8
1988 Reds 24.9
1965 Reds 24.8
1910 Giants 24.3
1911 Giants 23.7
1912 Red Sox 23.4
1913 Athletics 23.4
1987 Pirates 23.2
1929 Yankees 23.1
1939 Yankees 22.9
1935 Cubs 22.9
1942 Cardinals 22.5
2016 Cubs 22.1
1921 Yankes 22.0
1974 Reds 21.9
1930 Giants 21.8
2024 Orioles (Proj.) 21.7
1911 Athletics 21.4
1979 Expos 21.4
1978 Expos 21.3

Their 21.7 WAR would be enough to put the Orioles in the top 25, and there’s an argument that this undersells the group. The vast majority of the teams with the most 26-and-under contributions come from the pre-World War II era, when players were called up at younger ages and there was no ticking service time clock. Looking at just the divisional era – which now covers more than half a century – the Orioles rank impressively among recent stables of young talent.

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Best MLB Teams, 26-and-Under Hitters, 1969-2024
Season Team WAR Top Players
1988 Reds 24.9 Barry Larkin, Kal Daniels, Chris Sabo, Eric Davis, Paul O’Neill
1987 Pirates 23.2 Barry Bonds, Andy Van Slyke, Michael LaValliere, Bobby Bonilla, Jose Lind
2016 Cubs 22.1 Kris Bryant, Anthony Rizzo, Addison Russell, Javier Báez, Willson Contreras
1974 Reds 21.9 Johnny Bench, Dave Concepcion, Cesar Geronimo, Dan Driessen, George Foster
2024 Orioles (Proj.) 21.7 Gunner Henderson, Adley Rutschman, Jordan Westburg, Colton Cowser, Jackson Holliday
1979 Expos 21.4 Gary Carter, Larry Parrish, Andre Dawson, Ellis Valentine, Warren Cromartie
1978 Expos 21.3 Ellis Valentine, Gary Carter, Warren Cromartie, Andre Dawson, Larry Parrish
1972 Giants 21.2 Chris Speier, Bobby Bonds, Ken Henderson, Dave Kingman, Garry Maddox
2023 Braves 20.8 Ronald Acuña Jr., Austin Riley, Ozzie Albies, Michael Harris II, Braden Shewmake
1973 Orioles 20.7 Bobby Grich, Al Bumbry, Rich Coggins, Earl Williams, Don Baylor
1977 Royals 20.1 George Brett, Al Cowens, Darrell Porter, Frank White, Tom Poquette
1980 Athletics 20.0 Rickey Henderson, Dwayne Murphy, Tony Armas, Mickey Klutts, Jeff Cox
1970 Reds 19.9 Johnny Bench, Bobby Tolan, Bernie Carbo, Dave Concepcion, Hal McRae
1996 Mariners 19.8 Ken Griffey Jr., Alex Rodriguez, Darren Bragg, Manny Martinez, Raul Ibanez
2018 Red Sox 19.8 Mookie Betts, Xander Bogaerts, Andrew Benintendi, Rafael Devers, Tzu-Wei Lin
1975 Red Sox 19.8 Fred Lynn, Dwight Evans, Jim Rice, Cecil Cooper, Rick Burleson
2021 Astros 19.8 Carlos Correa, Kyle Tucker, Yordan Alvarez, Chas McCormick, Jake Meyers
2005 Guardians 19.5 Grady Sizemore, Coco Crisp, Victor Martinez, Jhonny Peralta, CC Sabathia
2019 Red Sox 19.3 Rafael Devers, Xander Bogaerts, Mookie Betts, Andrew Benintendi, Michael Chavis
1969 Athletics 19.2 Reggie Jackson, Sal Bando, Rick Monday, Blue Moon Odom, Lew Krausse
2007 Brewers 18.9 Prince Fielder, Corey Hart, J.J. Hardy, Rickie Weeks Jr., Ryan Braun
1992 Expos 18.8 Larry Walker, Marquis Grissom, Delino DeShields, Moises Alou, Bret Barberie
1973 Dodgers 18.8 Willie Crawford, Joe Ferguson, Ron Cey, Bill Russell, Steve Garvey
2013 Braves 18.7 Freddie Freeman, Andrelton Simmons, Justin Upton, Jason Heyward, Evan Gattis
1979 Twins 18.7 Butch Wynegar, Roy Smalley, Rob Wilfong, John Castino, Ron Jackson

There are some mighty impressive teams on that list, most notably the Big Red Machine and the early 1970s Athletics before free agency.

And even this perhaps underrates Baltimore’s offensive talent. It wouldn’t be surprising to see Holliday destroy in the minors and get a quick call back up, and if he does, he would slide right into the everyday lineup. Otherwise, though, the Orioles are now up to the practical limitation of roster and starting lineup spots. Cowser is an example of this: It would have been hard to get him regular playing time if not for Austin Hays’ dreadful start to the season. (Hayes is now on the IL). Heston Kjerstad was called up to replace Hays on April 23, after hitting .349/.431/.744 at Triple-A Norfolk, yet the former first rounder has gotten only eight plate appearances total in three games — the O’s have played 10 games with him on the roster.

Kjerstad is far from the only Orioles farmhand who likely would have gotten more playing time on a team with a thinner roster. At Triple-A, Coby Mayo is hitting .333/.397/.683 with 11 homers while mostly playing third base, a position at which the Orioles are already overflowing. Connor Norby has split time at second base and the outfield with an .829 OPS at Norfolk, but there’s no obvious place for him to get playing time unless the team decides to cut Ramón Urías. Using up-to-date minor league translations for Kjerstad, Mayo, and Norby, we can get an idea, via some up-to-date ZiPS projections, at what this trio could do if they O’s had playing time to give them.

ZiPS Rest-of-Season Projections – Mayo/Kjerstad/Norby
Player BA OBP SLG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB OPS+ DR WAR
Mayo .243 .326 .438 460 65 112 25 2 20 76 49 138 3 112 1 2.5
Kjerstad .261 .319 .432 472 69 123 22 3 18 75 34 116 2 108 3 1.6
Norby .248 .309 .410 474 71 118 22 2 17 69 38 127 6 100 -1 1.5

All three players project as league average or better if they started in the majors right now.

While this represents a pretty enviable problem for the Orioles to have, it also can be an opportunity. The organization is deep in hitters, but its farm system does not have anywhere near the same depth when it comes to pitching. We don’t yet have a 2024 farm system ranking up for the Orioles, but in the updated 2023 list, the top 15 prospects featured just two pitchers, Cade Povich and Seth Johnson. Corbin Burnes was a great acquisition, but it doesn’t have to end there; as teams fall out of contention, the possibility exists for Baltimore to add a pitcher who can not only pitch down the stretch or in a possible playoff series or three, but in 2025 and beyond. The surplus of offensive talent should give the Orioles the ability to offer more for the right pitcher than practically any other team in baseball can, and if they do swing a trade, they’d still have so many other hitters in the pipeline that such a move likely wouldn’t make a dent in the team’s long-term outlook in a meaningful way.

Whether Baltimore gets to the World Series after a drought of more than 40 years is still uncertain. But this is the Orioles team that looks the most like the ones of the early Earl Weaver years: It’s a club that’s built mostly from within and overflowing with young stars. That worked out pretty well the first time around.





Dan Szymborski is a senior writer for FanGraphs and the developer of the ZiPS projection system. He was a writer for ESPN.com from 2010-2018, a regular guest on a number of radio shows and podcasts, and a voting BBWAA member. He also maintains a terrible Twitter account at @DSzymborski.

64 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
soddingjunkmailMember since 2016
2 years ago

What does ZiPS think their chances of scoring 1,000 runs is?

Dominikk85Member since 2020
2 years ago

They are a great team and could easily win the division again but also consider they had a very easy schedule in april.

Series(projected wins by pecota)

Angels(73)
Royals(76)
Pirates(73)
Red Sox(78)
Brewers(83)
Twins(85)
Royals(76)
Angels(73)
As(65)
Yankees(94)

Now the Royals and brewers seem to be better than projected but the staffs they faced where not good.

April opponent by stuff+ rank:

Angels (faced twice): 21st
Oakland: 17th
Brewers: 24th
Royals: 28th
Twins: 16th

The only good staffs they faced where the Yankees (2nd) and red Sox (6th) -one series each.

Not hating on the Os, they are definitely good but they might be more like “only” the 5th or 6th best offense rather than the 2nd best like they where in april.

DoubleJ
2 years ago
Reply to  Dominikk85

Those ROS opposing team projections also reflect getting whipped by the Os/Royals.

Dominikk85Member since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  DoubleJ

Those where pre season projections.

DoubleJ
2 years ago
Reply to  Dominikk85

I sit down, corrected!

filter2Member since 2019
2 years ago
Reply to  Dominikk85

To be fair, the O’s are 6-1 in those two series with a +20 run differential. (35(RS) 15(RA))

thefanblog
2 years ago
Reply to  Dominikk85

They are 17-5 versus teams above .500 (excluding records vs Orioles)

These teams have won at a .627 win percentage versus teams that aren’t the Orioles but only .227 versus the Orioles

All Oriole opponents have won at a .547 win percentage versus others but a .324 win percentage versus the Orioles

I honestly have no idea what that looks like from a historical perspective, but the numbers, particularly those versus teams that have performed well to this point are extremely impressive. And I know it’s early but with 21 percent of the season complete, it seems as if it’s beyond just an early trend.

The Ghost of Johnny Dickshot
2 years ago

Better be virtually zero.

Last edited 2 years ago by The Ghost of Johnny Dickshot
angryyankeesfan
2 years ago

At first I was like “Wow the Yankees are really high up in the 26 and under ranking.” Then I remembered Soto’s 25.

OkraMember since 2016
2 years ago

A nice reminder of how amazing Soto is – the Yankees top prospect is in his age 23 season and in AA.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  Okra

And that prospect’s BB/K in AA is likes fifth of Soto’s

The Ghost of Johnny Dickshot
2 years ago

I’m sure this will get voted down hard but I cannot believe Soto is 25. When he was 18 he looked 30.

David WiersMember since 2016
2 years ago

Not the point of the first table, but my takeaway is:

Oh no, White Sox, what is you doin??

MarkZMember since 2017
2 years ago
Reply to  David Wiers

And pirates, and Rockies, and maybe even Angels? Sheesh

MikeSMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  David Wiers

Short answer? Waiting for Reinsdorf to die.

They are in the position they are in largely because of deficiencies in developing young talent. So the better time to ask that question was when they elevated the director of player development to GM.

Dmjn53
2 years ago

when they hired Elias and Mejdel to tear it all down, it seemed a matter of when, not if, they would turn this team in a juggernaut.

Building a winner seems like it would be really hard, but why is it so easy for these guys?

nattybros
2 years ago
Reply to  Dmjn53

I would love to be a fly on the wall in their scouting meetings. It would be so interesting to find out the type of advanced stats they look at when evaluating talent.

dezreMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  nattybros

Sig Mejdel was a rocket scientist for nasa I think. He’s a huge part of the book “Fantasyland,” a terrific read. Details how he uses an advanced data model to help try to win Tout Wars. It’s cool that he went from that to where he is now, as it was his dream to work for a major league team in the book.

bglick4
2 years ago
Reply to  nattybros

It’s telling that even guys they give up on like Nevin and Garrett find success. What ever voodoo they use to find players, it’s clearly effective. They’re not always successful (seeFujinami), but their hit rate is pretty good.

Sleepy
2 years ago

1996 Mariners – 19.8 WAR – Griffey, A-Rod, three random dudes from any Seattle area Thursday night slow pitch softball beer league

Dmjn53
2 years ago
Reply to  Sleepy

those three dudes must be really good at softball to be MLB replacement level!

formerly matt wMember since 2025
2 years ago
Reply to  Dmjn53

Ibanez was replacement level that year, but for his career I think he’s something like top 3 among players whose last name begins with I. IIRC Monte Irvin is number 1 at 31.6 WAR, but I may be missing someone obvious (and also may have only looked at position players when I did this).

formerly matt wMember since 2025
2 years ago

I believe that I has the lowest fWAR leader among players with that last initial (except X–I don’t think there’s ever been an MLB player whose last name started with X), thanks to Ben Zobrist, Chase Utley, and Jack Quinn (and more recently Jose Quintana).

norisk
2 years ago

Orioles and Mariners seem like inevitable trade partners

bubblesMember since 2024
2 years ago
Reply to  norisk

Yeah they do. SEA really needs offensive help to go with Julio. Maybe they will line up to trade Mayo Kjerstad for one of the young SEA pitchers.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  norisk

If Bryan Woo is healthy then maybe they’d trade him for Mayo (Orioles would probably say no) or Norby (Mariners would probably say no). I don’t think the other ones are going anywhere, except Hancock and he has not pitched well.

cowdiscipleMember since 2016
2 years ago
Reply to  norisk

They do if you accept that the Orioles are willing to trade like for like. I don’t know that they are – the hitter-heavy focus seems very intentional.

The Ghost of Johnny Dickshot
2 years ago
Reply to  norisk

They surely have a history…

OddBall Herrera
2 years ago

I remain skeptical of one of the big contributors here: Cowser’s plate discipline numbers are god awful and his numbers look more like a hot streak with an inevitable downward trend than a breakout

Last edited 2 years ago by OddBall Herrera
HappyFunBallMember since 2019
2 years ago

Ok, so maybe that’s Kjerstad’s way into the lineup. Or they let Hearn/Mountcastle get more OF time and bring Mayo up. Or something. It’s a stupid good problem to have.

carterMember since 2020
2 years ago

Tbf even with this downturn he has absolutely demolished the baseball. Like league leading hard hit percentage even since his numbers have fallen off

KvnMember since 2020
2 years ago

Just to quibble with this a bit his plate discipline is actually quite good in terms of swing decisions (he runs better than league average O-swing % and BB%). Cowser’s main issue is below average contact rates. This was Gunnar Henderson’s profile when he was called up as well, though he’s closer to average this year than Cowser.

PC1970Member since 2024
2 years ago

Thanks, Dan.

One correction on the 1969-2024 grid- On the 1979 Expos that is Larry Parrish, not Lance Parrish.

Lance Parrish was on the Tigers..of whom I am surprised the late 70’s
s/early 80’s iterations didn’t make it. Trammell, Whitaker, Lance Parrish..had Steve Kemp & Jason Thompson for a few years..Then Gibby came along in 1980, too.

Left of Centerfield
2 years ago

2005 Guardians Hitters under 26:

Grady Sizemore
Coco Crisp
Victor Martinez
Jhonny Peralta
CC Sabathia (???)

To be fair, CC did go 2-6 with a double and a home run that year. But seems like Ryan Ludwick (.222/.333/.512 over 48 PAs) would better fit the definition of hitter.

Roman AjzenMember since 2020
2 years ago

The O’s roster crunch starts to lighten up in 2025 once Santander leaves and some of the other core players (Mullins, O’Hearn, Hays, Mateo) are only one year away from free agency. It’s not optimal for 2024, but managing the roster crunch this year and then trading pending FAs in the offseason would both balance the roster and free up payroll to keep adding arms to the staff (Snell, Fried, etc)

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago

That last part—about them trading position players for pitchers—is what literally everyone brings up when we talk about the unbalanced nature of the Orioles’ system. But the Orioles don’t seem that interested to pay the price for guys like Cease, and there is no easy way to do it even if they wanted to, because teams don’t trade away controllable pitching. Pitching is so hard to come by, teams hoard their young guys even though they’re more likely to get hurt.

The Corbin Burnes deal is a more likely the sort of thing we can expect them to do, if they are willing to slowly whittle down their prospect depth every year for a rental to head up the rotation. The jury is out whether they want to.

DoubleJ
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

If Elias has any evaluation magic for pitchers like he does for hitters, it probably skews heavily towards vets with proven durability.

Agreed that the Corbin Burnes deal is exactly the model to expect. Not because of the price on younger arms with more control, but because he actually prefers the healthy vet risk profile.

gettwobrute79Member since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

So…Verlander maybe?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago

Short term I don’t think this roster crunch is a problem because Holliday needs some more work, the team hasn’t given up on Mayo playing third base but he’s clearly not ready to do so, Hays is hurt and wasn’t even playing that well before this, and Santander can DH. That would allow them to play:
1B: Mountcastle / O’Hearn
2B: Norby
SS: Gunnar (!)
3B: Westburg
LF: Cowser
CF: Mullins
RF: Kjerstad
DH: Santander

Things get more a bit more complicated when Holliday is ready, and again when they either feel good enough to let Mayo play third base or they give up and say he’s an outfielder. And if Dylan Beavers keeps raking. The odd ones out right now look to be be Mayo and / or Norby based on the fact that they are hitting very well and they’ve been reluctant to call them up, but it feels like one of them really should be in the majors so they can put Urias back in a utility role.

Uncle SpikeMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I feel like it’s a little too early to throw the towel in on Hays. His injury is not considered serious and he’ll likely be back soon. Call me crazy, but if a combination of Hays and Cowser could hack it in center field, I would be tempted to trade Mullins for a cost-controlled pitcher. The fans probably wouldn’t like it but it would probably make them better this year and definitely make them better in the future.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  Uncle Spike

The problem is they have that huge left field thanks to moving the left field wall back so they need a true center fielder and at least a tweener in left. I think Cowser is probably the long term guy in left field for this reason, unless Dylan Beavers keeps hitting and his defense looks really good. In center they’re probably hoping either Jud Fabian or Enrique Bradfield Jr assert themselves before Mullins leaves (although maybe they could platoon).

KvnMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  Uncle Spike

I think you’re overestimating what 1.5 years of Mullins at Arb 2 + Arb 3 would get you. An ok rental possibly, but cost controlled (>2 years)? I doubt a team would offer to send anyone meaningfully better than Dean Kremer back. This is even before analyzing the idea of having Hays or Cowser play CF, which would be not good.

tdmocMember since 2023
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

If/when they think Mayo can stick at 3B, I think that’s when he’s up in the majors. If they give up on the hot corner, I don’t think they call him up until the RF/1B/DH logjam with Santander (2025), O’Hearn (2025), Mountcastle, and Kjerstad is lifted.

Last edited 2 years ago by tdmoc
jdbolickMember since 2016
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

If Elias thought Norby was a second baseman, he would be in Baltimore. They don’t believe in him there, and he’s a bad fit for Camden’s cavernous left field as well, so he’s the most obvious trade bait.

From what I saw of Mayo in person, I am a believer in his ability to handle third, but there is no need to rush that right now.

AnonMember since 2020
2 years ago

Off topic but was poking around the 1974 Reds and noticed they used a total of 15 pitchers for the entire year, and they didn’t even have anyone run up crazy inning totals with 3 guys going between 212 – 243 IP. But they had 2 guys pitch 139 and 100 IP out of the pen. Their full season roster was a total of 35 guys.

The next year, the famous 1975 team, was even more extreme: they had a total of 12 pitchers for the entire year with nobody over 210 IP, and that included one guy who only threw 2 IP so they basically used 11 pitchers for the entire year. They had 3 guys out of the pen throw 90 – 96 IP and one at 125 IP and 3 of their 6 starters made 5, 7, and 8 relief appearances. The full season roster was 29 guys.

The 2024 Reds have already used 17 pitchers and 30 total players in just 31 games.

Was wondering if that was unusual for the time but not really – the 1975 Dodgers used a total of 14 pitchers but 4 of their pitchers threw 7 or fewer IP (including a 37 yo Juan Marichal!) so they basically made it through the entire year with 10 pitchers (and even 2 of those 10 only threw 16 and 33 IP so really more like they primarily used 8 pitchers for the vast majority of the season)

And as long as I’m this deep into it, the pitcher totals for the other 1975 NL teams:

Pirates 14
Phils 15
Mets 16
Cards 19
Cubs 19
Expos 14
Giants 14
Padres 14
Braves 19
Astros 15

As with the Reds and Dodgers, most teams had a few or more guys that threw just a handful of innings.

Just crazy compared to today

Last edited 2 years ago by Anon
PC1970Member since 2024
2 years ago
Reply to  Anon

Oh yeah, that was common. I remember the ’84 Tigers entire staff was basically:

Jack Morris
Dan Petry
Milt Wilcox
Juan Berenguer
Dave Rozema
Willie Hernandez
Aurelio Lopez
Doug Bair
Glenn Abbott
Sid Monge
Carl Willis- less than 20 innings
Bill Scherrer (August pick up)

They had a couple of September call ups pitch some because they clinched the division early, so they had them eat some innings..but, it was basically those 12 above that pitched with the top 8 pitching when it mattered.

The first 4 guys all qualified for the ERA title (Morris & Petry were over 230 innings). Hernandez & Lopez had 140 & 137 innings each as RELIEVERS. Rozema cleared 100 as a swing man. Bair hit 90. Abbott & Monge were mop up guys with Abbott making a few starts in a pinch (double headers, etc)

The top 8 had 1309 out of 1464 innings.

Jason BMember since 2017
2 years ago
Reply to  PC1970

Can I just say – from these two comments, I so appreciate the wealth of baseball knowledge and inquisitiveness that just casually patrols the message boards here. The writers here are fantastic, but the commenters add so much depth of knowledge after the writers provide a jumping-off point. Kudos to you both

Dominikk85Member since 2020
2 years ago

BTW I wonder if Elias will get more active in trades soon. So far he was quite reluctant to trade away what he built up.

But now the situation is different, most of the core players are up or had been up and as the article said the roster spots are full.

I think apart from holliday the other guy who has like a “guaranteed” spot is mayo who is a priority player.

Norby and kjerstadt will fight it out with westburg, mountcastle and o’hearn. The question now is what the Os will do. Trade mountcastle and o’hearn to clear roster spots (and accept to likely not get much of a return) or trade norby, westburg or kjerstadt and get a better return.

lesmashMember since 2017
2 years ago

Serious question here: is Coby Mayo for Mason Miller a win-win for both sides?

DoubleJ
2 years ago
Reply to  lesmash

I think about this a lot and keep coming to the conclusion that Miller’s injury risk is just too high for Elias’s valuation matrix vs Mayo.

Dominikk85Member since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  DoubleJ

I think mayo is about untouchable for Elias unless the return is a young, surefire starter.

Norby could be a good piece but you would have to add a second top100 ish prospect. I think the return is either a top30-40 overall prospect or 2 in the 80-100 range.

Mayo is more like top20 overall and might be too good to be available.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  lesmash

Mason Miller’s arm is going to fall off any second now.

I would trade Norby though and I really like Norby.

Ivan_GrushenkoMember since 2016
2 years ago
Reply to  lesmash

They might look at Miller as a rental figuring that he might be ok this season and postseason but massively uncertain after that.

The closest comp I can think of is Josh Hader to San Diego for Lamet, Gasser, Ruiz and Rogers. I don’t remember any of those being as highly regarded as Mayo but the combination might have been and my memory might be faulty

Dominikk85Member since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  Ivan_Grushenko

Edwin Diaz and Chapman to the cubs trades also are good comps

hebrewMember since 2016
2 years ago
Reply to  Dominikk85

I’m not sure you can use the Diaz trade as a comp considering the whole Cano fiasco

dkdc
2 years ago
Reply to  lesmash

To borrow from finance, my sense is Elias puts a very high discount rate on future seasons for pitchers.

I think the Burnes trade is a good example – only 1 season of control so Elias’s skepticism about years 2, 3, 4, etc are not relevant.

For a pitcher like Miller with tons of team control left, I think there’s probably a pretty big gap between how much value Elias places on future seasons and what the As view is.

wokegraphs3
2 years ago

I’m biased but the takeaway for me is Ben Cherington needs fired immediately from table 1.

rexx1Member since 2020
2 years ago

Trust in Elias, Sig, and Eve!

TKDCMember since 2016🏆 MVP
2 years ago

Nevermind. I made a stupid, incorrect point. You should be able to delete posts.

Last edited 2 years ago by TKDC
Groundout
2 years ago

If we assume that controllable pitching basically isn’t for sale, the trade I daydream about is:

Mullins + any non Holliday/Mayo prospect for Luis Robert; Mullins gets flipped to a team like the Phillies or Dodgers. This has to be at least close, and the Orioles have the ammo to go higher than this if required.

Robert seems like a more obvious trade candidate than any big name pitcher, and I’m not sure what other team could or would top this.

hebrewMember since 2016
2 years ago

Feels inevitable that they trade for Luzardo, right?

airforce21oneMember since 2026
2 years ago
Reply to  hebrew

Washington is on the way up. Why would they trade him?

Edit: Don’t listen to me, was thinking of Gore

Last edited 2 years ago by airforce21one
John WickMember since 2018
2 years ago

They have Basallo coming down the pipe too, maybe he’s their backup C but could warrant time at 1B/DH when he arrives sometime next year. If Mayo isn’t at 3B that becomes one more happy puzzle to solve.