The Rays and Guardians Help Each Other Out

Aaron Civale
David Richard-USA TODAY Sports

Every year, the Rays and Guardians pull off a neat magic trick. They piece together an impressive starting rotation by using a few awesome pitchers they’ve developed, some mid-level guys who pitch way above their pedigree, and a few slots of the rotation that mostly look like scrubs but churn out solid value anyway. The Rays like to sprinkle in some cheap veteran acquisitions that turn out to be better than we all thought, too. When the inevitable heat death of the universe occurs, I half expect Cleveland and Tampa Bay to be locked in the 12th inning of a 2–2 game, so consistent are their developmental pipelines.

The 2023 season has put some stress on the Rays’ side of that equation, though. Their top-end starters have been excellent. Shane McClanahan and Zach Eflin have both provided great bulk, Tyler Glasnow has been fantastic since returning from injury, and Taj Bradley is promising despite a rough start to the season (but is headed to Triple-A to make room for Civale). But injuries have wreaked havoc on their depth this year: Jeffrey Springs, Drew Rasmussen, and Josh Fleming have all hit the 60-day IL, with only Fleming likely to return this year.

Something else strange is going on down on the Gulf Coast, too: the Rays’ bullpen has been atrocious. I half expected Google Docs to underline that sentence as incorrect, because this is part of the Tampa Bay mythos: pick some random relievers, sprinkle in some crazy arm angles, and bam: top-five bullpen. But instead it’s been a bottom-five bullpen, and that makes the starters’ jobs much harder. The Rays have fallen out of first place in the AL East, the Blue Jays are lurking not far behind; something had to change.

That change: a trade that sent Aaron Civale from Ohio to Florida in exchange for Kyle Manzardo. Civale is having one of the best stretches of his career. Manzardo’s star has dimmed this year as he’s struggled in Triple-A and been hurt, but he’s a Top 100 prospect nonetheless. This deal makes a lot of sense for both teams, but I’m going to focus on two particular parts: Tampa Bay’s defense-in-depth rotation plans, and Cleveland’s new trade plans.

The Rays have invested a lot of resources in starting pitching. Eflin received the largest free-agent contract in team history. Glasnow and Rasmussen were trade return headliners. McClanahan was a high draft pick, Bradley is a heralded prospect, and Springs got a contract extension earlier this year. For a team that avoids contractual commitments as much as possible and tries to spend smarter rather than harder, these things matter: they’re taking away from possible investments elsewhere on the team.

Civale pushes that strategy even further. He won’t reach free agency until after the 2025 season, and he’s making his second trip to arbitration this year. I think he’ll do fairly well there; he has a 2.34 ERA and will set a new career high in innings pitched assuming he makes every turn down the stretch. That ERA overstates how good he is by a fair margin — a .242 BABIP and 5.6% HR/FB rate will do that — but he’s a solid third starter who makes up for a lack of strikeout stuff by flooding the zone and inducing weak contact with his cutter. He seems like the kind of pitcher who might benefit from Tampa Bay’s pitch mix optimization, too, though that’s more speculation than certainty.

You Aren't a FanGraphs Member
It looks like you aren't yet a FanGraphs Member (or aren't logged in). We aren't mad, just disappointed.
We get it. You want to read this article. But before we let you get back to it, we'd like to point out a few of the good reasons why you should become a Member.
1. Ad Free viewing! We won't bug you with this ad, or any other.
2. Unlimited articles! Non-Members only get to read 10 free articles a month. Members never get cut off.
3. Dark mode and Classic mode!
4. Custom player page dashboards! Choose the player cards you want, in the order you want them.
5. One-click data exports! Export our projections and leaderboards for your personal projects.
6. Remove the photos on the home page! (Honestly, this doesn't sound so great to us, but some people wanted it, and we like to give our Members what they want.)
7. Even more Steamer projections! We have handedness, percentile, and context neutral projections available for Members only.
8. Get FanGraphs Walk-Off, a customized year end review! Find out exactly how you used FanGraphs this year, and how that compares to other Members. Don't be a victim of FOMO.
9. A weekly mailbag column, exclusively for Members.
10. Help support FanGraphs and our entire staff! Our Members provide us with critical resources to improve the site and deliver new features!
We hope you'll consider a Membership today, for yourself or as a gift! And we realize this has been an awfully long sales pitch, so we've also removed all the other ads in this article. We didn't want to overdo it.

If you look at the makeup of the team, this push into starting pitching makes a lot of sense. The Rays have a tremendous track record when it comes to finding above-average regulars via trade or development. Jose Siri, Luke Raley, Randy Arozarena, Yandy Díaz, Isaac Paredes — all of these guys will be around for years to come, and they’re all performing well after the Rays picked them up for peanuts on the trade market. The homegrown core — Wander Franco, Josh Lowe, Brandon Lowe (eh), and a bushelful of hitting prospects — compliments those trade pieces nicely. The lineup isn’t going to cost Tampa Bay much salary, and it’s going to be around for a while. Further investments in hitting feel like diminishing marginal returns unless the Rays can find a difference maker at catcher, and those don’t exactly grow on trees.

Likewise, investing in the bullpen isn’t normally how they operate. The Rays don’t spring for big rental relievers; they look for players with unique skills who might unlock a higher level of performance with Rays coaching, or attempt to find those players in the draft or via free agency. They traded for Nick Anderson once upon a time, but he had a ton of years of team control remaining. There’s clearly a formula in place for how to construct an excellent bullpen from generally overlooked pitchers; just because it hasn’t worked this year doesn’t mean they’re likely to abandon it.

When you put it that way, investing spare resources in the rotation is a logical move. As the saying goes, you can never have too much pitching, so the marginal returns don’t decline as quickly. Sure, they’ll have some guys returning from injury next year, but let’s be real: some of the currently healthy pitchers will get injured. I’m not trying to jinx anyone; that’s just how baseball works. Pitching is tough on arms, but you have to do it.

When you consider it from an opportunity cost standpoint, this trade makes even more sense. Manzardo was blocked five ways to Sunday in the Rays system. Díaz is around for a few more years and is basically first base only at this point in his career. Raley’s natural home is first base. Top prospect Curtis Mead is probably a long-term fit at the position. Paredes is playing third base for now, but he might need to move across the diamond at some point. Jonathan Aranda is melting Triple-A again and works best at first. They’re packed to the gills, in other words. Manzardo would have to beat out a lot of guys to provide value at the major league level.

Over in Cleveland, the situation looks kind of the same, but only on the surface. Sure, the Guardians have Josh Naylor and Josh Bell, but Naylor can fake the outfield and Bell is only around for another year. Heck, DH exists too, and Cleveland designated hitters have a gruesome 83 wRC+ on the year. The Guardians have a glut of middle infield prospects but weaknesses everywhere else. Manzardo faking the outfield might be better than a lot of the options the team is currently running out there (Steven Kwan, you’re a gem, this isn’t about you).

Is it strange for a contender to trade away good starting pitching? Absolutely. The Guardians just traded for a bulk starter in Noah Syndergaard, in fact. But like the Rays, the Guardians run a comically small budget and have to think long and hard about where to allocate resources. As I mentioned in the Rays section, Civale is headed for a raise, and the team has plenty of starting pitching in place for 2024. Shane Bieber, Triston McKenzie, and Cal Quantrill are rotation stalwarts to varying degrees. Gavin Williams, Tanner Bibee, and Logan Allen are all making a case for rotation spots next year. Peyton Battenfield will be back at some point, too. If you’re pinching pennies, Civale looks like an odd man out, particularly considering the teams’ needs on offense.

In past years, the Guardians have opted for quantity over quality in trade returns. They seem to always receive two or more players back, and those players run the gamut from interesting statistical cases to reclamation projects to mid-tier hitters who project as future role players. That keeps the team flush with cheap contributors, but it’s led to years of 40-man roster crunches and a lack of top farm talent. Manzardo immediately slots in as Cleveland’s top prospect on The Board, an indication of how the team’s farm system generally works.

In a sense, this trade is about the limitations of the concept of replacement level. Manzardo might be below replacement level for Tampa Bay if you exclude his value in trade. The Rays are flush with people who do the same thing that he does, only better, and he’s not flexible enough to find a place in their platoon-heavy system. That’s no knock on his skills; despite a down 2023, scouts are still high on his bat-to-ball skills and ability to barrel the ball up frequently enough to make up for middling raw power. It’s just a fact of life given the state of the system.

On the other side of things, Civale’s value above replacement might also have been negative to Cleveland. Money matters a lot on a shoestring budget, and the organization’s crop of rookies can likely make up most of his performance. The Yankees or Dodgers might choose a 3.90 ERA starter making $4.5 million over a 4.00 ERA starter making the minimum, but the Guardians would likely prefer to use that money elsewhere. I’m not even sure Civale is better than the crop of rookies who would be competing with him for a job.

There’s just one strange part of this trade for Cleveland: a lot of the starters competing with Civale for rotation space next year are currently hurt. Again, the Guardians just traded for Syndergaard as a rental. Their rotation has been snakebitten this year, and they’re locked in a high-stakes pillow fight for the AL Central crown. They might need 83 or even 84 wins to take the division down, and those wins are likely slightly harder to get with Civale leaving town. Clearly, the team thought it was worth it, but I do think this leaves Cleveland with a rotation deficit. Another trade for bulk innings might be in the cards, Jack Flaherty pun intended.

From Tampa Bay’s side, this is just good business. It might not be enough business — the Orioles and Blue Jays are tough competition — but it’s a clear upgrade for both this year and the next few. Teams that operate on tight budgets need to be thinking a few years out, and this trade improves the present and potentially the future as well. This was a good bit of business both ways, and what else would you expect? These two front offices know what they’re doing, particularly when it comes to making trades. It only stands to reason that deals between them help both sides out in the long run.





Ben is a writer at FanGraphs. He can be found on Bluesky @benclemens.

42 Comments
Oldest
Newest Most Voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
TonyMember since 2017
2 years ago

I’m a Cleveland fan and am surprised they traded away Civale being 1/2 game back of the division lead and drawing well. I get what they hope to accomplish, but …..

Left of Centerfield
2 years ago

I’m honestly shocked that Cleveland was willing to trade away Civale, with Bieber and McKenzie both on the DL till September. Wonder if they’ve received good news re: one or both of them?

As for Manzardo, his struggles this year have come entirely against lefties (.906 OPS against righties, .535 vs lefties). At the very least, he’s a strong side platoon bat.

fjtorres
2 years ago

They could pair him with Fry, I suppose…

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago

I do not trust Aaron Civale at all, and I’m a big believer in Manzardo, so I like this trade for Cleveland and not for Tampa Bay. Civale has a 35-grade fastball, Manzardo is a hitting wizard and has been a hitting wizard for a long time, and Manzardo has a lot more team control.

But just at the surface level, if you told me that a guy who posited a 3.70-something xERA over his last 175 innings and has over two years of team control was traded for a first base only prospect who is hitting below league average at AAA, I would tell you the exact opposite. In that case, I would tell you the Rays cleaned up. I’m just not sure that I buy that either of those two things are going to continue.

OkraMember since 2016
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I think this trade makes sense in that both players have a very narrow path for success. Civale needs to continue to limit hard contact like peak Quintana and Manzardo needs to really maintain elite contact and walk rates to make it as 1B with below average raw power and speed. Both profiles are risky because there is almost no margin for error before they become replacement level. But I’ll take Civale because everyone always needs more pitching and I think what Manzardo provides is cheap and easily replaceable with a CJ Cron type 1B that seems to always be easily had.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago

One more thing, I like this trade a lot for Cleveland but only if they’re not planning to move Josh Naylor back to the outfield. He’s settled in nicely at first base, but Manzardo is also a first baseman, and he’s almost ready. So…does that mean Manzardo is going to DH? Are they going to see how he looks in left field?

fjtorres
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I doubt it.
After his injury Naylor has bulked up a lot. In fact, not only is it doubtful he can fake it in RF, 1B is looking iffy.

On the other hand, the bat has come along nicely.

Manco
2 years ago
Reply to  fjtorres

Naylor could be DH mostly going into the next year? Or Manzardo may need more time next year in AAA to sharpen up?

Left of Centerfield
2 years ago
Reply to  Manco

Yeah, I imagine the plan next year is to start with Naylor and Bell at DH/1B with Manzardo in AAA. And Bell being jettisoned once Manzardo looks like he’s ready.

fjtorres
2 years ago

Manzardo doesn’t need to be on the 40-man until Dec 24.
So he’s not coming up this year regardless of how he performs at Columbus.

David Klein
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Josh Bell will assuredly pick up his player option for next year, so they’ll be stuck with him next year too.

fjtorres
2 years ago

This trade would have been greeted in Cleveland with nods and a shrug in March. Going into the season Cleveland was 8 deep in rotation candidates and Civale and Plesac looked to be fighting for the four and five hole with Espino, Williams, Morris, et al. Plesac and Civale were the most disposable…
…then the injuries hit: Espino, Morris, McKenzie, Bieber, Quantil, and Civale himself…

Then Civale came back as the best version on himself and what in March would have been unthinkable: bringing back a 50 (albeit one with questions) looks, for now, light.

Basically its a challenge trade of sorts: which is the real Civale? The real Manzardo?
Is this another Hafner steal or a Diaz for Bauers Cleveland misread?
Or a double miss?

Both are young enough to be wins but as far ’23 goes, The Rays get what they need now and Cleveland gets…a promise…

Don’t think they’ll be celebrating this at the Jake.

Manco
2 years ago

Good timing for the Guardians. Sell at Civale’s best and buy Manzardo at his worst. I think this will be a win for the Guardians for the next six years. As for the Rays, this helps keep the window open after the downpour of pitching adversity they’ve dealt with this season.

isavage
2 years ago
Reply to  Manco

Does buying someone at their worst ever work out? A guy struggling is more often than not a sign that, you know, they are going to continue to struggle. Manzardo isn’t even on the field right now, due to a shoulder problem. I find it really hard to believe that if Cleveland held onto Civale now, and then called up the Rays come winter meetings and offered Civale for Manzardo, that Tampa doesn’t take it. The only way they don’t is if Civale again goes down for any extended time this year…which is certainly a possibility. But Manzardo is the currently injured, underperforming guy in the minors leagues and Civale is performing at a high level in the majors so I know which one I am betting on

MRDXolMember since 2021
2 years ago
Reply to  isavage

I feel like it’s definitely worked out with pitchers when young and hurt, and rather occasionally with struggling veteran hitters. But for every Jeff McNeil there’s a bajillion Adeiny Hechavarrias.

Cleveland is more than a little confusing to me, in that they have traits they clearly really— high contact lefty or switch hitters— and they recently have almost *refused* to acquire, develop, or play basically anyone who isn’t that type. Hence they have the lowest strikeout rate in baseball, but also the least homers in baseball. It doesn’t seem like a good trade-off to me. The division leading Twins have the highest K% in the league, but a wRC+ 9 points higher. This type worked great for Cleveland with J-ram, but they’ve not gotten a dude to develop a ton of pop like him since.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  isavage

Aaron Hicks for John Ryan Murphy worked out pretty damn well for the Yankees.

Also, Manzardo was cruising along pretty well for a 22 year old in AAA until 6/17.

He sat a couple games, then came back on the 21st and had a 7 wRC+ (not a typo) until hitting the IL at the start of July.

Last edited 2 years ago by Cool Lester Smooth
MarkZMember since 2016
2 years ago

I hope I’m wrong and it’s not the case yet, but I don’t have a lot of faith McKenzie will be a 2024 option.

fjtorres
2 years ago
Reply to  MarkZ

A bigger concern is Espino.
For him it’s 24 or never.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  fjtorres

I don’t know about that. He will probably need some time to build up strength.

fjtorres
2 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

McKenzie? Sure.
But he’s shown that when healthy he’s at worst mid rotation.
He has a ML track record.

Espino had 18 innings in ’22, zero in ’23. If he doesn’t pitch in ’24 that would be three lost years. Without those injuries he would already be in the rotation since last year. Even with two injuries he’d be in AAA. Instead, he’s been passed over by Williams, Bibee, Logan, and Curzon. Even Burns.

The pipeline is deep and he doesn’t come back soon he might run out of options.

Cleveland has seen this before: most recently with Adam Miller, another dominant prospect derailed by injuries.

Last edited 2 years ago by fjtorres
Left of Centerfield
2 years ago
Reply to  fjtorres

The pipeline has mostly dried up.

They had four 50 grade pitching prospects at the beginning of the year – Espino + the 3 rookies in the rotation.

Their one 45 grade (Justin Campbell) has been hurt all year.

Their four 40+ grades were Cody Morris (who is always hurt), Ethan Hankins (looks toast), Jacob Zibib (very young, hasn’t pitched an official game yet), and Davis Sharpe (reliever).

Then there are a bunch of 40 grade prospects, most of whom have struggled this year.

Left of Centerfield
2 years ago

Loving the down votes with no coutner argument. Because of course there is none. The pipeline has dried up.

fjtorres
2 years ago

You’re only looking at the queue from AA and lower.
You need to look at the players ahead of Espino, not just the ones behind him.
The four now up might very well lock up the rotation for two years or more.
And the injured ones in AAA are still candidates to figure it out: compare Curzon from last year to this year.

Young warm bodies matter, too.

isavage
2 years ago
Reply to  fjtorres

Espino will be doing well if he makes it back into minor league affiliate games by August of 2024. He has next to zero shot of impacting the major league team next season. The timeline for return to any kind of game action after his surgery was 12-14 months, which would be June to August of 2024, and at that point he won’t have pitched in games for over 2 years

Last edited 2 years ago by isavage
Groundout
2 years ago

Is there a trade that could be more according to type than this?

The Rays trade a 50FV for three years of a back end starter when it seems that sort of prospect can land a solid #2 as a rental. Cleveland, willing to trade the one type of asset everyone wants, decides that it prefers yet another hitter who can’t hit for power.

It’s like when your spouse goes out on an errand for you, and picks up something that’s technically what you asked for, but not exactly what you had in mind.

EonADSMember since 2024
2 years ago
Reply to  Groundout

“…another hitter who can’t hit for power.”

He is running a .200 ISO at every stop in the minors. He’s not a super power hitter, but he’s currently on pace for 25-ish home runs per 162 at AAA in a down year. That’s a bit much.

Cool Lester SmoothMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  EonADS

His ceiling is probably something like Christian Walker with a .300 BABIP…and that’s a really good player!

(Pre-2016 Freddie Freeman is another version of that guy).

fjtorres
2 years ago

That was my thought.
.280/.350/.450 with 20 HRs is playable.
Better than anybody Cleveland has rolled out there since Santana.

Last edited 2 years ago by fjtorres
sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago
Reply to  fjtorres

Santana is actually a pretty good comp for the sort of player I expect him to be.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
2 years ago

The guy he reminds me of is Anthony Rizzo, but that is definitely his ceiling. I think there is a risk he’s like late-stage Joe Mauer, who wasn’t the hitter before all the concussions. But not enough to worry too much about it.

isavage
2 years ago

“These two front offices know what they’re doing, particularly when it comes to making trades.”

I beg to differ. Here are the last 9 significant trades Cleveland made:
1) Yandy Diaz for Jake Bauers. Boooooo. Holy crap what a bad trade
2) Corey Kluber for Emmanuel Clase and Delino Deshields Jr – Kluber got hurt and pitched 1 inning for Texas in the pandemic year, and Clase is very good. Win Cleveland.
3) Lindor and Carrasco for Gimenez and Amed Rosario. Good for both teams.
4) Bauer for not having Bauer on their team, a half year of Puig and Franmil Reyes. Uh, wash?
5) Clevinger for Josh Naylor, Cal Quantrill and assorted stuff. Cantillo still a possible contributor. Good one
6) Yanier Diaz and Phil Maton for Myles Straw. Yeek. Yanier Diaz hits more home runs every week than Myles has hit in two years.
7) Junior Caminero for …. Tobias Myers? @##&@#
8) Nolan Jones for Juan Brito. TBD, but Cleveland sure could have used Jones this year, and this seems like a classic choosing floor over ceiling deal that the best case is a wash
9) Will Benson for Hajjar and Justin Boyd. So, Cleveland likes to trade for guys with shoulder problems?

Verdict: overall a pretty bad trade record. They have done MUCH better on their veteran for prospect swaps, with only the Bauer deal not turning out, and Civale for Manzardo is that kind of trade, so there is that. Their prospect for prospect swaps though have been a horror show of unforced errors, with the two worst coming at the hands of the Rays–giving up Caminero and Yandy for sub replacement level Bauers and a pitcher who was DFA’d 3 months later is insanely bad, and both deals were totally unnecessary. A Cleveland team that had Yandy Diaz, Yanier Diaz to go along with Bo Naylor, Junior Caminero in the minors, Nolan Jones and Will Benson instead of Myles Straw and Will Brennan, wouldn’t need to trade for Kyle Manzardo, and instead would have had the means to trade for pitching. It’s one thing when a Franmil Reyes turns into a pumpkin 3 years in, it happens, it’s another when you trade a living, breathing prospect like Caminero for a washed AAA pitcher that you didn’t need.

nktokyo
2 years ago
Reply to  isavage

Rays traded Joe Ryan for 2 months of sub zero Nelson Cruz

fjtorres
2 years ago
Reply to  nktokyo

They got nothing, yes, but Cruz had a history of being useful. Once. They bet on him still having something to offer.
Not unlike Cleveland getting Thor.
(Who gave them five shutout innings before the back end of the bullpen blew it.)

Teams betting on veterans is common. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn’t. Part of what makes baseball fun. As they say: You never know.

coldbagel12Member since 2018
2 years ago
Reply to  isavage

So three good grades, three bad ones, and three that we don’t know yet. Why is this a terrible record? Also, last nine is a weird and arbitrary cutoff, this same front office traded for Kluber, Carrasco, Trevor Bauer, and Clevinger. Those trades count too when evaluating their record.

isavage
2 years ago
Reply to  coldbagel12

This is the last 5 years of trades they have made and Civale is number 10. How is it random lol. They traded for those guys a long time ago. Their recent record is not great. I think it’s pretty rare for teams to make prospect for prospect swaps that misfire that badly. You SHOULD get valuable player(s) back when you are trading the likes of Lindor, Corey Kluber and Clevinger and Bauer. (Cleveland got those guys by trading Jake Westbrook, Choo, and well Vinny Pestano but you don’t want to be like the Angels) The other moves they have made never returned any value and we’re just straight misevaluations of their own and other team’s current talent. Again, it would be one thing if they traded a Caminero for a vet they thought could help and then the vet failed, or helped a little, and Caminero blew up. It happens. It’s a risk you take, trading prospects for current help. They traded Caminero for a used-to-be-a-prospect who the Rays may not have even rostered (it was the year of the no rule 5, but they didn’t know that), and who spent a couple months for Cleveland in AAA being bad and was released. The Yandy /Bauers trade was probably worse, since Bauers provided negative value and actively hurt them, and they spent most of the years since searching for a 1b/DH. The only one that is still too early to evaluate is Jones/Brito. Will Benson is duplicating his AAA season from 2022 for the Reds, Hajjar continued being hurt and has pitched poorly, Justin Boyd hit .150

Last edited 2 years ago by isavage
Left of Centerfield
2 years ago
Reply to  isavage

I think you’re being a bit unfair/premature with these grades. Caminero is very young and only at AA. Lots could still go wrong. Jones and Benson are mostly SSS guys. Time will tell if they can keep it up or not. And while I’m definitely not a Straw fan he’s produced about twice as much WAR as Diaz and Maton combined since the trade. That can obviously change but it’s hardly a bad trade at this point.

isavage
2 years ago

Caminero is being ranked as a top 5 prospect in baseball right now. He would have massive trade value right now, no matter what it is that he actually ends up doing. Cleveland traded him, a year and a half ago, for a pitcher who they DFA’d 3 months later. Not s veteran pitcher, a pitcher who has never pitched in MLB

WAR is a counting stat and pretty nonsensical to use in the context you’re using it–Straw’s been worth 1.6 WAR over the past 2 seasons, and -0.3 this year. Yanier has been worth 1 WAR in 231 PAs. The latter is … Preferable. Simply not having Straw, and playing Brennan in CF, would be a win in itself for Cleveland.

Last edited 2 years ago by isavage
fjtorres
2 years ago
Reply to  isavage

Diaz is a Catcher who hits.
Straw is a good fielding zero-hitting CF.
Which is harder to develop?

Left of Centerfield
2 years ago
Reply to  fjtorres

Diaz was a 35+ grade prospect when he was traded. No one cared about him. Fangraphs ranked him as the 58th-best prospect traded at the 2021 deadline. The fact that he developed may say more about Houston than anything else. But it wasn’t something that anyone expected when he was traded.

fjtorres
2 years ago

Young catchers traditionally take longer to develop the bat.

Essentially Cleveland chose Lavastida over Diaz because they figured Naylor will be the starter until ’27 so they looked at them as backup catchers. Lavastida fit that slot better.

Last edited 2 years ago by fjtorres
Left of Centerfield
2 years ago
Reply to  isavage

If Caminero had developed with Cleveland the same way he had with Tampa (which is a big if), they’d be holding on to him. But there’s still no guarantee he’s do anything in the majors. Just as there isn’t now.

And you’re seriously going to criticize my evaluation of the Straw trade using WAR (and calling it “non-sensical”) when your own evaluation was solely based on who hits more home runs??? Sheesh….

benmusch
2 years ago

Good write-up of the trade, though the first few paragraphs feel like they were written a month ago. The Rays’ bullpen isn’t perfect, but it’s settled down and become really solid. There’s one or two relievers who we maybe save for games that are mostly lost, but Poche, Diekman, Armstrong and Stephensson have all been super solid, building on-top of the core of Adam and Fairbanks. Conversely, Taj Bradley has been awful in his last few starts.