What If Justin Verlander Figured It Out?
A little over a month ago, Dave ran through his annual trade value rankings, and as he likes to do, after all the good bits, he wrote up the bad bit, addressing the game’s least-valuable players. Ranking third on his list was fallen Tigers ace Justin Verlander, whose contract is steady even when the pitching isn’t. Verlander ranked worse than Matt Kemp. Worse than Shin-Soo Choo. He’s making $28 million a year through 2019, and when Dave wrote the post up, Verlander looked like a wreck, after a season in which he also looked like a wreck. Verlander’s contract has been used as one of the reasons why the Tigers might be headed for disaster.
And, the Tigers might be headed for disaster. So might you and I be, I don’t know. Who knows anything? One thing I think I know, though — Verlander has turned things around. As the Tigers have faded out of the race, Verlander has seemingly re-emerged, and now it’s worth wondering what he actually is. Just as the world was getting used to the idea of an underwhelming, under-performing Justin Verlander, he’s showing signs that he…might…be…back? What if that were true? Are we open to the chance that that’s true?
Let me make things simple. The following table is why this is a post. You see a table with four lines of data. Included, lots of relevant statistics. Now, the lines are labeled mysteriously, and there’s a reason for that. One of the lines shows Verlander’s 2010. One of the lines shows Verlander’s 2011. One of the lines shows Verlander’s 2012. Basically, in that table, you see three consecutive peak Verlander seasons. The fourth line is Verlander, in 2015, since the All-Star break, over just shy of 50 innings. Of course, it’s a smaller sample size. That’s why this is a hint of something, not proof of something.
Anyway, do you know which one is recent 2015 Justin Verlander? Probably, you do not, because they’re kind of virtually indistinguishable. Which is interesting.

| Time Period | K-BB% | FIP- | xFIP- | SwStr% | Strike% | IFFB% | Hard% |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
| 1 | 16% | 70 | 84 | 9% | 65% | 12% | 26% |
| 2 | 20% | 74 | 77 | 10% | 66% | 11% | 22% |
| 3 | 19% | 70 | 80 | 12% | 66% | 15% | 24% |
| 4 | 20% | 70 | 91 | 12% | 67% | 15% | 23% |
Four lines. Which is which? The strikeouts are all sort of similar, relative to the walks. Each time period features above-average strikes, and above-average whiffs. Additionally, a good number of pop-ups, and limited hard contact. The FIP numbers are basically the same, and Verlander has a history of beating his xFIP on account of limiting damage on fly balls. This paragraph is all to re-state what was already stated — the stats are similar.
If it’s an answer key you want, I didn’t scramble anything. Time Period 1 is 2010. The next is 2011, then 2012, then 2015 post-break. Everything is there. Verlander looks a little bit different in style — more fly balls, more fastballs and sliders, fewer curves and changeups — but the end result is promising. What Verlander used to be able to do, he’s done. He can’t seem to throw 100 anymore, but the recent stretch would serve as evidence that velocity alone isn’t what Verlander needs to be terrific. There was a narrative that, at reduced velocity, Verlander would have to adapt to succeed. He’s succeeding, and while in some ways he’s adapted, it’s not like he’s staying away from his fastball, even though it isn’t what it was.
This is an interesting article from the beginning of July. At that point, Verlander was sitting on lousy statistics, but he expressed confidence in himself. Now, a lot of bad players do that, and a lot of them stay bad, but it’s interesting to reflect now. Verlander felt like success was right around the corner. He said he’d been feeling the best he’d felt in a long time, physically and in terms of his throwing. As far as he was concerned, the stuff was there, and he just needed to do some polishing, specifically pointing out his mechanics out of the stretch. Back then, maybe that could all be easily dismissed by cynics. Verlander now looks pretty sharp.
Time now to look at some screenshots, and specifically screenshots of Verlander’s follow-through when pitching with runners on base. It can be very difficult to perform a mechanical analysis on a pitcher when you just have the TV broadcast, but someone told me a long time ago that you can see changes by looking at the follow-throughs. Changes earlier in the process lead to changes at the end of the process, so based on that theory, let’s look at four pictures of Verlander out of the stretch before the break, and four pictures of Verlander out of the stretch after the break. Eight total pictures might not be representative, but then, they very well might be. I didn’t cherry-pick to get these.
Before the break
Mostly, I’m looking at Verlander’s right leg. From the camera perspective, the foot is about even with home plate, and the leg is mostly straight, with a bit of a bend in the second picture, which is Verlander throwing a breaking ball (the others are heaters). In isolation, this might not be real interesting. The next pictures make it more interesting.
After the break
Generally, a lot more leg bend. The foot is above home plate, from the camera’s perspective, and Verlander appears to have achieved fuller rotation. These pictures just look like pictures of a more stable pitcher, and while I can’t pinpoint what Verlander might’ve done in his delivery, I think the change in the follow-throughs indicates that there was a change earlier in the process. Verlander said he had to polish his pitches out of the stretch. These days, when pitching out of the stretch, he looks a bit different from how he did earlier, when he was plenty less successful. It’s evidence that something’s going on, and I think it helps to support the numbers.
Speaking of numbers, I have more of them. Verlander so far has pitched in June, July, and August. His performances with runners on base:
- June: 32 batters, 5 walks, 1 strikeout
- July: 41 batters, 1 walk, 6 strikeouts
- August: 38 batters, 1 walk, 11 strikeouts
I shouldn’t need to point out how small those samples are, but they support a theory that Verlander has gotten more consistent out of the stretch over time. At this point, he doesn’t seem to have any problems with runners on base, and a month and a half ago, Verlander considered that to be his final hurdle. If he’s beyond that — which is possible, and not definite — then we might really have something.
We might have Justin Verlander again. One theory is that he simply broke down, losing velocity and losing effectiveness. Sort of thing you don’t recover from. But there’s a pretty good alternate theory — Verlander struggled in 2014 because he didn’t get to do all his usual pre-season preparation, and then he struggled to find his mechanics early in 2015 because of an injury. Given time to condition and smooth out the delivery, Verlander could conceivably bounce back, and that seems to be what we’re seeing. Maybe this performance is above his true talent, I don’t know, but this is proof that an excellent Justin Verlander is still in there. Declines don’t have to be linear; not every bad performance is representative of decline. I don’t know what Justin Verlander really is today, but I know it’s too soon to say he’s finished. He’s just not pitching like a pitcher who’s toast. He’s pitching, rather, an awful lot like his old self.
Jeff made Lookout Landing a thing, but he does not still write there about the Mariners. He does write here, sometimes about the Mariners, but usually not.








If he had figured it out, there’d be a ring on my finger already.
Get it and run, girl.
Thank god she turned him down so his career could be resurrected
The “before” pictures look like he is throwing a little more across his body and cutting off his arm on the follow through. The “after” pictures look more downhill and he does not appear to cut off his pitching arm on the follow though to the point that his pitching hand is behind him at the follow though. He does not look balanced, but pitchers to not appear to be concerned with balance anymore.
It’s actually real simple. He’s forgotten how to pitch to the score.
Jack Morris was my favorite pitcher growing up in metro-Detroit. He had some great moments in a Tiger uniform as well as a few others.
That being said, I never thought he was HOF material. Not even close. However, I will say that I was sickened by the massive campaign to smear him by the sabrmetrics community. They did everything in their powers to make sure he didn’t get enough votes to get in writing weekly articles and posts leading up to the voting deadline showing from every angle why they he didn’t deserve to make it to the HOF.
I wish the same people that fought so hard against Jack Morris would take the same tact for Alan Trammell, but in reverse. Per B-R.com, Trammell has the 8th highest career WAR (70.4) for any SS (with more than 50% of games at SS). Why doesn’t the sabrmetrics community put as much effort to get the 8-10th best SS of all-time into the HOF? Is he as qualified as some of next year’s candidates?… No, but it’s his last year to be voted in so instead of using advanced stats only to kill a candidate, why not use it to build a case for Trammell?
Totally agree on Trammell. If he doesn’t get in this year, he’ll be a great gauge at whether the new-style Veterans Committee is up to the task.
Isn’t Trammell almost always one of the first guys brought up in the saber community when it comes to HOF snubs? Like Kevin Brown with pitchers?
Sabermetrics people have been highly supportive of Trammell getting into the HoF, along with Lou Whitaker (68.1 fWAR). I’ve been reading articles on the subject going back several years.
I know they have been supportive and that would be OK if they were just detractors of Morris. There was a focused campaign to keep Morris out and all I am saying is there should be at least a big push for Trammell. We’ll see closer to the election. Regarding Whitaker, it’s a shame he didn’t even garner enough votes to make it to the second ballot.
Brad, what is more bothersome
1) A guy who has no legitimate argument getting into the HOF
2) A guy with a bordeline case not getting into the HOF
I think you answer lies within this concept.
Pirates Hurdles,
I don’t disagree at all with your general point. But, he’s absolutely not borderline (and Whitaker should be a sure thing). ~60 WAR is the rough 50/50 threshold for making the HOF, he has 63.7. That’s a whole all-star season more than the hard and fast toss up HOFer mark. Plus, there is a bit of positional issue to contend with. For example, the top 30 SS in MLB history accumulated average, 65.3 fWAR. However, the top 30 1B in MLB history have accumulated an average of 74 WAR. Clearly its a little harder to be an “average HOFer” by WAR alone from defense first positions. Maybe the 50/50 line should be more like 55 WAR for C/2B/SS/3B/CF and 65 WAR for 1B/LF/RF.
The HOF voting has become a farce. Trammell is the 5th best SS in fWAR from 1960 to 2000. Just in front of him is Larkin (64.6 fWAR), who made it in easily on this 3rd try and 86.4% of the vote. I just don’t understand how the HOF doesn’t have room for something like the 5th best player at his position over a 40 year time period. Second base is even worse, with numbers 3-5 (Grich, Whitaker, Randolph) on that 1960-2000 list not in the HOF (they are 3, 4 and 7 moving it out to 2015 even, with Alomar and Biggio passing Randolph) . Yet, Almoar, Sandberg and Biggio sale right in? And CF, oh my. Loft off the ballot in a single try? I can’t wait to watch Andruw Jones and Jim Edmonds suffer the same fate. Or maybe they will stagnate on the ballot like Larry Walker? Though with the ballot crowding, they will be lucky get that.
Anyway, clearly I shouldn’t be discussing this. It just makes me mad. 2012 and 2013 should have been the years to get a few players in this good enough but not 1st balloter type players in. But they only managed to get Larkin in. Those were the years to get Trammel, Raines, Walker (maybe), Edgar, Whitaker, Bagwell out of the way, while the no-doubters if not for PEDs sit (Bonds, Clemens). But no.
Many writers have pushed it. The problem is other writers and fans don’t jump on it. I don’t think Morris was singled out as much as you think because saber guys weren’t nearly as influential back then. There was a lot of Morris hate by more traditional writers and voters simply because he didn’t have the accolades of other pitchers and his career. Stuff that HOF voters have been using for years. Back then if its merely saber guys versus traditional, the saber guys always lose the HOF argument. They may have pushed but they were one of several. The Saber guys have pushed for years for candidates such as Grich, Trammell, and Whittaker as well as Raines. But they always hit the same problem that they are all preceived as borderline players by most of the establishment and not worth the trouble to Enshrine. Saber guys have campaigned for years against Rice and couldn’t keep him out. They really don’t have the power you think they do at least not yet. Hopefully they do.
It’s also harder to bang the drum for Trammell as much as you’d like when Tim Raines is likely an even better candidate and still isn’t in either.
A lot of saber people have gone to bat (so to speak) for Trammell. The problem is that the same people who argued so vehemently for Morris never even considered voting for Trammell because he didn’t have the traditional counting stats of other Hall of Famers.
Revisionism!! Why wasn’t Morris elected right after he retired, before anyone had ever heard of Sabrmetrics? If he were worthy, it shouldn’t have taken him 11 years to crack 50%. I would argue that the only reason he was even close was beacause a of reactionary response by some writers against Sabrmetrics and PEDs.
Morris is one of my all-time favorites and won the greatest game I ever watched live (91 game 7), but he is two levels below hall of fame in my view… He is in that very good player category along with a few recent guys who don’t belong (Puckett & a few closers for instance)
To me – there are no arguments for putting guys in until Jeff Bagwell & Dick Allen are put in. It is a disgrace neither are hall of famers (and the two banned players).. Then you can start looking at Raines, Grich, Trammell & maybe Whitaker
Hey,J.V.,if your ex-babe Kate Upton likes cover boy handsome older black chaps-I’m 62-PLEASE tell her I’d LOVE to be her new boyfriend!!!!!!(Tarnish the Angels’ halos tonight,Justin!!!!!)
Why, over 12 hours later, is this not deleted?
Don’t ask me why but I have spent WAY too much time the past year trying to ‘guess’ what’s wrong with Justin Verlander and here’s a few things I found interesting:
1) The overwhelming answer given by most early on was that “Verlander isn’t as good now because he no longer throws hard etc” but Verlander’s velocity is actually still elite “for his age” being the key phrase. Of the 225 pitchers from 2011 till today that have started a game in their age 32 season and up, Verlander’s age 32 season (this year) ranks as the 2nd highest FB velocity on average (oddly enough behind only 2014 Alfredo Simon).
2) Verlander’s performance against left-handed hitters has actually stayed the same the last few years and wasn’t the real problem in his awful 2014 season. The downfall for Verlander had been against right-handed hitters from his slider and curve (2 pitches he uses a lot for a power pitcher) as his slugging percentage allowed off those pitches to RHH had nearly doubled last year from his peak seasons.
3) Verlander’s horizontal movement on his curver to RHH averaged above 7.00 in his 3 best seasons of 2010-2012 (brooksbaseball.net). The movement went below 5.00 the last few years and this year as well BUT here’s one big key IMO.
4) Verlander stated that after the July 24th start against Boston he made an adjustment and he’s actually seen more movement on his curve against RHH which has been above 5.20 in each start since pus his vertical movement on his FB is also way back up as well.
The biggest factor that shows Verlander may have turned the corner has been all the swing and misses he’s been getting as he ranks ONLY behind Sale and Archer in the American League for swinging strike percentage over the last 30 days.
The swinging strike bit is very important. I looked at the table and initially thought #4 because it had the worst xFIP- of the group, and that had to be it because even in a SSS improvement he still wouldn’t have his xFIP- as good as peak Verlander. But then I thought that couldn’t be right because I remembered Verlander hadn’t been getting as many swings and misses lately, so I guessed #1. So if the swinging strikes are back up it’s definitely key to why he’s succeeding.
I saw Verlander pitch against the Orioles last year, a game the Tigers won but where Verlander gave up a lot of runs (Cruz 3-run HR on a curve, if I recall). It occurred to me during the game that Verlander is a guy you would think would age well. Sure his velocity might go down, but he always was able to throw 4 or 5 quality pitches in a repeatable delivery, and he seemed to stay away from patterns, so you’d think he’d be able to adjust to decreased velocity. It is hard for some power pitchers to change their identity and become crafty veterans, and maybe that’s a part of the issue, but certainly Verlander has the weapons to do that.
Duh, it’s because I cut him in my fantasy league
Now I’m even more interested to have nearly behind home plate seats for tonight. I’ll be sure to watch the leg angle.
Concerned about his W/L record, but I’ve always been a believer in Justin. http://twtwsports.blogspot.com/2015/06/jurassic-verlander-lost-ace.html
Who in their right minds worries about a W/L record for a pitcher in 2015?
Especially if they also read FanGraphs… Truly bizarre
TWTW, what are you doing on fangraphs? I would’ve expected your head to burst into flames just from clicking on the link.
A genius, that’s who.
His gloveside looks to be a conscious change, letting his left arm go behind his body instead of trying to tuck it on his hip. That does help achieve full rotation, which could help.
Just looking at the pictures. It shows in his falow threw,,,,,he is not pulling his right arm through
what is a falow and what did he throw
fool me once… etc.
Well he’s taken a no-hitter into the 8th tonight, so this post looks very prescient
Ianetta dots the line for a double in the ninth. Ouch.
Good timing on the article!
Jeff you ruined it! What a jerk.
What if Jeff wrote a ridiculously well-timed piece on JV?
Too bad he couldn’t finish it.
Great day to have made that prediction since later that day Verlander goes and and throws:
No-no into the 9th, complete game 9K, 2 BB, 1 H.
I think the timing of this post couldn’t have been better after his one-hit shut out last night.
Your timing is impeccable – what a game by JV!
Now #5 on your second-half pitching leaders list:
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=all&stats=pit&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2015&month=31&season1=2015&ind=0&team=&rost=&age=0&filter=&players=
The stuff Verlander still throws in unreal. He averaged over 94mph his last start, and topped out at over 98. He induced 14 swings and misses on his fastball alone. His stuff is still filthy. He might not throw a 100 anymore, but topping out at over 98 is still pretty damn good.
The stuff he is featuring is better than atleast half the “aces” in baseball right now, and Verlander has the history behind him too. If they can be aces now, so can he.