When Super-Teams Fail

There is no strict definition of what a super-team is. There’s no cutoff at a certain number of wins, no cutoff at a certain number of standard deviations above the mean. We’re objective people with an analytical bent, so we should probably consider working on this, but for the time being, consider it a “feel” thing. Somewhere, there’s a difference between a super-team, and a team that just plain looks good. We mostly know it when we see it.

And it’s been suggested that we’ve entered a super-team era. An era in which there are a number of very clear favorites. This would all be cyclical, and not a permanent state of being, but it’s hard for me to argue with. There are seemingly a number of clear favorites. You know exactly who they are. It’s impressive what they’ve all managed to build, but you could make the case it’s taken some of the thrill out of the offseason, with so many other teams deciding they just can’t keep up. Super-teams have accumulated much of the power.

You’ve seen the various preseason projections. They’re all based on prior data, and projections inform the odds. We already know which teams are going to have strong World Series odds in 2018. In the interest of shining the light on uncertainty, though, I thought it could be instructive to examine a few super-team failures. As a reminder of how baseball could surprise, we can look at a few prior surprises. These are teams that looked extremely good. These are teams that fell short.

I’ve noted so many times that I have a spreadsheet of preseason team projections going back to 2005. They’re differently sourced, introducing some inconsistencies, but all projections fundamentally work the same. The projections haven’t gotten notably better or worse as time has passed. So here’s all I’ve done. As mentioned, there’s no definition of what a super-team is, but I decided to look at teams with preseason win projections of at least 95. Teams, in other words, projected to finish with records of 95-67 or better. From 2005 through 2017, 12 teams fit. Of that dozen, nine teams made the playoffs. Which means, three teams missed the playoffs. Three teams that could’ve been called super-teams in March. Here are summaries of the three teams. This is nothing exhaustive, mind you; entire books could be written. This is just a quick layout of what took place.

2008 Mets

  • Projected record: 95-67
  • Actual record: 89-73
  • BaseRuns record: 90-72
  • Preseason, division: 9 wins better than closest team
  • Preseason, league: 7 wins better than closest team
  • Actual division: 3 wins worse than best team

The 2008 Mets had, barely, baseball’s best preseason projection. The year before, they’d finished 88-74, and that wasn’t tremendous, but then during the offseason they traded for Johan Santana, considered the game’s best starting pitcher. Also, in 2007, the Mets got all of just five starts out of Pedro Martinez. Then he showed up to camp throwing well, saying he felt the best he had in a decade. Articles were written about how the Mets probably had baseball’s best 1-2 punch. And it’s not like the rest of the roster was empty; there was a heck of a position-player core in place.

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The Mets didn’t really get worse. Willie Randolph was replaced as manager midseason by Jerry Manuel, and, under Manuel, the Mets won 59% of their games. But they just didn’t play well enough for long enough, even though Carlos Beltran, David Wright, and Jose Reyes held up their end of the bargain. In 2007, those three combined for 19 WAR. In 2008, they combined for 20. And Santana was outstanding. But there were problems in the bullpen, with Aaron Heilman and Pedro Feliciano. Starter John Maine was injured and worse, and Oliver Perez also saw his performance slip. Probably the biggest blow, though? Pedro posted an ERA of nearly 6. Even though a lot of his missing velocity returned, Pedro was suddenly mortal. That 1-2 punch didn’t materialize. The Mets instead would tread water, while the Phillies again won the division.

2008 Yankees

  • Projected record: 95-67
  • Actual record: 89-73
  • BaseRuns record: 87-75
  • Preseason, division: 3 wins better than closest team
  • Preseason, league: 3 wins better than closest team
  • Actual, division: 8 wins worse than best team

The Yankees projected only very slightly worse than the Mets. See, in 2007, they’d gone 94-68, and they scored almost a thousand runs. They had the best preseason team projection in the American League, and the 2008 roster was to look similar. The dynasty was over; the Yankees weren’t always far and away better than everyone else. But this was the Yankees before the brief downturn. There wasn’t supposed to be much of anything wrong.

What’s funny is that, compared to 2007, the Yankees’ rotation was better. And the bullpen was much better, as well. If you can believe it, the bullpen improved by five full WAR. But the position players lost 16 WAR between seasons, and I can show you where. In 2007, Alex Rodriguez, Jorge Posada, and Robinson Cano combined for 20 WAR. In 2008, those three players combined for 6. Rodriguez was still great, but less so. Meanwhile, Cano’s performance dropped to replacement-level, and Posada’s did as well, mostly thanks to injury. Hideki Matsui also had problems with his knee that hurt his performance, and the Yankees just couldn’t recover from all this. Their position players dropped from ranking second in baseball in WAR to 15th. That was just too great a drop, as the Rays also came to blossom, after years of ramping up. The Yankees wound up in third place in the East.

2015 Nationals

  • Projected record: 95-67
  • Actual record: 83-79
  • BaseRuns record: 90-72
  • Preseason, division: 14 wins better than closest team
  • Preseason, league: 3 wins better than closest team
  • Actual, division: 7 wins worse than best team

Here’s the most recent, most memorable, and most dramatic failure. The Mets and the Yankees were still all right. The Nationals, according to BaseRuns, were also all right, but in reality they only barely eclipsed the .500 mark. In 2014, under the same manager — Matt Williams — the Nationals went 96-66. Then management added free-agent Max Scherzer. The Nationals had also traded for Trea Turner and Joe Ross. I remember this preseason pretty well. The Nationals looked like one of the best teams imaginable. The NL East was a foregone conclusion. Bryce Harper seemed poised to win a World Series. What could possibly happen?

The bullpen was hurt by the departure of Tyler Clippard. Tanner Roark wasn’t very effective, and Stephen Strasburg spent some time on the disabled list. That doesn’t seem to really capture the story, though. In this year, Harper had one of the best seasons of all-time. It was his breakout, his direct threat to Mike Trout’s supremacy. Harper seemed to become a surefire Hall-of-Famer before our very eyes. And yet Harper’s efforts were essentially wasted. In 2014, Ian Desmond, Jayson Werth, Anthony Rendon, and Denard Span combined for 20 WAR. In 2015, they combined for 4. Span had injury problems. So did Werth and Rendon. Desmond simply slumped. Throw in all the talk about clubhouse discord and you have a team that just went off the rails. This, while the Mets built around their healthy young pitching. In hindsight, BaseRuns does make the Nationals look better than it seemed, but they were more or less shoved out of the division race by the end of August. Relatively speaking, the 2015 Nationals were a catastrophe.

=====

And so these are our three failures. They’re not the only three such failures — the 2006 Cardinals went from 94 projected wins to 83 actual wins (except lol they don’t count), and more significantly the 2005 Dodgers went from 92 projected wins to 71 actual wins. They’re also failures of different degrees, with two of the three teams still ending up with win totals in the upper 80s. Even the nightmarish 2015 Nationals remained above .500, despite, you know, everything. The thing about super-teams is that they’re strong and deep, able to withstand a number of blows. But the other thing about super-teams is that they’re vulnerable. Each and every one of them, for reasons that, in the preseason, can be hard to envision. The odds are what the odds are. The preseason odds are never 100%. It’s something to keep in mind, should you ever find that baseball feels too predictable. It never really is.





Jeff made Lookout Landing a thing, but he does not still write there about the Mariners. He does write here, sometimes about the Mariners, but usually not.

46 Comments
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gawd_damn catapultMember since 2020
8 years ago

“Where’s my ring?” Bryce that Spring Training.

Sleepy
8 years ago

“Do I pick up my MVP trophy, or will you guys mail it to me?”

~ Bryce, that fall

Kevdog
8 years ago

Amazing how timing factors into these legacies too. That 06 Cardinals team was a massive disappointment, except they somehow made the playoffs and well, you know the rest.

rbemont
8 years ago
Reply to  Kevdog

Massive disappointment?

This team had injuries all year.

Lost Mulder for half the year, Pujols for a month, Edmonds for 2 months, Eckstein for 35 games, Isringhausen for september and playoffs.

It was basically the same team that had the most wins over 04 and 05, except for injuries.

Got healthy at the end of the season, and AW50 replaced Izzy.

Silver KingMember since 2024
8 years ago
Reply to  rbemont

It was the year Jim Edmonds stopped being ‘Jim Edmonds’, but I don’t remember quite how that played out.

Looking at the monthly splits, he missed most of August & September, but he also played fewer than normal games in the first half of the year. During each of the first three months, he hit at just an 88-102 rc+ rate. Only in July did he hit like himself, and that was also the month he had the most games & PA, both about 50% more than in June. In the postseason, he played all of the games, averaging 4 PA per game; his rc+ is listed as 101.

Over the previous six seasons, he’d been quite consistent at about a 7 WAR per year level. His ’06 dropoff in playing time and (mainly) quality could account for roughly half of the 11-game difference between the prediction for the team and the actual record…

Albert played only 10 games in June and hit badly in them. He still finished with 8 WAR. He played every postseason game and hit well.

I’d forgotten this, but Mulder actually had a very solid first season with the Cardinals in ’05, similar to his last season with the A’s in ’04. But in ’06, he was awful in 17 starts.

chuckbMember since 2016
8 years ago
Reply to  Kevdog

And Eckstein123 was born

res
8 years ago
Reply to  Kevdog

What happened

Alan
8 years ago

Poker writer Mason Malmuth wrote at least once that in order to be a great player, you must be willing to look bad at times. Teams increasingly seem to lack this quality, even though GMs should be “great” roster managers. This may be due to constraints from ownership or fearing their own job is at risk, but it seems to be leading to some pretty serious mistakes.

Long ago a very famous Baseball Prospectus writer used a poker analogy to explain why a team with a 1 in 10 or 1 in 20 shot (I forget which) at the postseason should not be trading prospects in a deadline deal. This assertion, and the poker analysis used to support it, are both incorrect. Teams that are able to both determine when it is closer to 1 in 10 than to 1 in 100 and to press on when it is the former are likely to be the most successful “big-game hunters” of the elusive “super team”.

timprov
8 years ago
Reply to  Alan

Eh, all of this depends on what the best way to consistently build revenue year-over-year is and we don’t really have hard data on that.

Is it better to try to get fluke wins, or to attempt to build a sustainable super-team? Does the answer to this question change based on individual teams’ market conditions?

francis_soyer
8 years ago
Reply to  Alan

This explains Michael Jordan’s gambling problems but I don’t know if it translates to athletics.

rosen380
8 years ago

Given roughly a 6.5 win standard deviation, we’d expect about:
1) 0.15% 3+ SD [0.02]
2) 2.35% 2 to 3 SD [0.3]
3) 13.5% 1 to 2 SD [1.6]
4) 34.0% 0 to 1 SD [4.0]
5) 34.0% -1 to 0 SD [4.0]
6) 13.5% -2 to -1 SD [1.6]
7) 2.35% -3 to -2 SD [0.3]
8) 0.15% -3 or lower SD [0.02]

The Mets and Yankees would fall into the bottom end of the 5th bucket and the Nationals would have been in the 6th bucket.

Do you have the numbers for the other 9 to share, just curious how the distribution looks.

trentaur
8 years ago
Reply to  rosen380

I heard early this offseason (from one of the writers) the SD on the FG projections is about 5 wins. Your 6.5 number works well enough, but just an FYI.

Jetsy Extrano
8 years ago
Reply to  trentaur

It’s about 6.5 even if underlying talent is unchanging and exactly known.

The only way to get lower is a gambler’s fallacy effect, steering records back toward prediction after chance has drifted them away.

Jetsy Extrano
8 years ago
Reply to  trentaur

Maybe you mean the SD of the set of predictions themselves? The thing here is their error versus actual records.

rosen380
8 years ago
Reply to  trentaur

https://www.fangraphs.com/standings/playoff-odds?lg=&date=pre

That was pre-season 2017… putting in the actual 2017 wins I get a 10.0 win SD.

Source for the 5 win claim?

Cubslol
8 years ago

The story of the 2017 Cubs. Atleast the dynasty and superteam talk has subsided, finally.

bunslow
8 years ago
Reply to  Cubslol

We haven’t even reached our final form.

kula
8 years ago
Reply to  Cubslol

They reached the 2017 NL championship series…

MoateMember since 2022
8 years ago
Reply to  Cubslol

I think we need to have a discussion of what “failure” is.

Win 90+ Games: Check
Win Division: Check
Advance to LCS: Check

I mean…wut?

FS54
8 years ago
Reply to  Moate

I understand what Cubslol is saying. After 2016 actually, lot of folks got behind Cubs and Cubs ended up winning the WS. If you see lot of preseason predictions for 2017, many experts had Cubs winning it all again. While Cubs did win division and advance to NLCS, no one expected them to struggle their way to it like they did. In mid-August, division race was still a tie with Brewers. I hash and re-hash NLDS game 5 every day (Nationals fan here). Cubs easily could have lost that game and not gone to NLCS. If you compare all this against the lofty expectations, you definitely won’t call it a success story.

bluescale
8 years ago
Reply to  FS54

This article is about super teams that failed, not super teams that struggled. For all the struggles in the first half of the season, the second half was pretty magnificent. Their entire run differential was thanks to the second half.

iBEGuRGaRDeN
8 years ago
Reply to  FS54

I mean, you use the whole dataset. Cubs started slow but won 92 games, having been projected for 97. They won their division by 6 games and went to the NLCS.

I definitely understand the sentiment because the Nationals and Dodgers (and certainly arguably Arizona) were better during the regular season and the Cubs were probably lucky to beat the Nationals in the NLDS and were clearly outclassed by LA in the NLCS. But that’s the game right now. A few superteams where every division has a strong favorite. Getting 2nd place in your league can’t be considered a failure in baseball like in the NBA or even the NFL.

Keyser Soze
8 years ago

The 2011 Red Sox didn’t qualify? I remember many preseason articles declaring them the all-world best that year after the trade with the Dodgers, including one ridiculous puff piece by Scott Miller on CBS Sports.

Keyser Soze
8 years ago
Reply to  Keyser Soze

Sorry wrong trade. This would be the trade with San Diego when they acquired Adrian Gonzalez, not the later charitable Dodger trade where they dumped him off along with Crawford and Beckett.

Mike NMN
8 years ago
Reply to  Keyser Soze

If I recall, Boston media was comparing them to the 1927 Yankees.

Dominikk85Member since 2020
8 years ago
Reply to  Jeff Sullivan

Is 4-5 wins under projection really big failure? I looked into it and last year the average deviation from the projection is like 5 wins,especially if you look at actual record and not baseruns.

Of course it isn’t an ideal outcome but it isn’t really failure, basically just one extra game lost per month. That seems more like natural variance than as inexplicable failure.

Catastrophic failure would be 10 plus wins which also happens every year albeit rarely to super teams.

Lou BrownMember since 2017
8 years ago
Reply to  Jeff Sullivan

What about the 2012 Sox?

Mike NMN
8 years ago
Reply to  Jeff Sullivan
Jason BMember since 2017
8 years ago
Reply to  Mike NMN

Of course Boston’s sports media has never been considered the most level-headed and rational of sources… =)

Shattenjager
8 years ago
Reply to  Keyser Soze

I may be wrong, but I swear I remember the projections being insanely high on the 2015 Red Sox. It didn’t seem like many people really were, but my memory is that the projections said that was going to be the best team in the AL (maybe in baseball). Perhaps it was only like 92-93 wins or my memory is completely wrong, but that was the first team I thought of.

Shattenjager
8 years ago
Reply to  Shattenjager

I found an article about it. It’s not on Fangraphs, but assuming they were reporting correctly it says Fangraphs projected them at 92-70, which was tops in the AL. They finished with 78 wins. So they just didn’t qualify as a “super team,” but they were an enormous disappointment.

Monsignor Martinez
8 years ago

The 2012 Phillies ring a bell. Utley, Howard, Halladay, Hamels, Lee, Victorino, Pence, Papelbon.

bananas
8 years ago

Would have been a pretty stud roster core in 2008

djanyreasonMember since 2020
8 years ago

If we define a “Super Team” as >=95 projected wins, then 3 Super Teams have missed the playoffs.

If we define a “Super Team” as >95 projected wins, then none have missed the playoffs.

dcomegysMember since 2016
8 years ago

Another big part of the Yankees fall in 2008 was the foot injury to Chien-Ming Wang who was having his same season as he had in 2006 and 2007 until he ran the bases in Houston and got hurt. His shoulder was going to go at some point but the foot injury accelerated the downfall.

Aaron Judge's Gavel
8 years ago
Reply to  dcomegys

Yep he was 8-2 with a 4.07 ERA (4.32 league avg) before going down. Also that is one of the most WTF bizarre outlier years of all time for a player, Robbie Cano. He put up 2.4 WAR as a rookie 2 years prior in just 122 games (3.1 WAR / 160 games pace), and then 4.7 in 2007. 2008: 0.0 in 159 games! 3.6 WAR in 2009, and then over the next 5 years a low of 5.1 and high of 7.6 WAR. I’m guessing if xwOBA was a thing back then he would have had possibly one of the largest discrepancies ever between his actual and expected wOBA.

oh Hal
8 years ago

Media in Chicago talking best rotation in baseball, a BP with 3 closers and multiple MVP candidates. Haven’t heard the Epstein is greatest GM in sports lately and surprisingly the team isn’t described as best of the decade or anything like that, but fans, media, FO and staff feel its a super team.

francis_soyer
8 years ago

Super teams project at 100+ wins.

Nothing “super” about a 95 win team.

Socrates Johnson
8 years ago
Reply to  francis_soyer

Has Fangraphs ever projected a team for 100+ wins? That’s extremely high for a projection system.

francis_soyer
8 years ago

So ?

1) Considering how many 100+ win teams there have been, perhaps they ought to revisit their system. A “Super” Team is an at least a once in a decade team.

There’s been on average one 100 win team a year since 2000. If you can’t call at least 100 wins the threshold for a Super Team, just lose the term.

2) Point stands, the teams mentioned in this article were by no means Super Teams at the start of the season. The 2008 Mets ??? Are they kidding ???

John Autin
8 years ago
Reply to  francis_soyer

Your definition of “super” is no better than Jeff’s. And I think that a definition which yields at most one team per decade — as I assume you meant, since “at least” makes no sense — is not very interesting.

ctrain03Member since 2026
8 years ago

Couple of “super teams” that underachieved come to mind. There was the Red Sox when they picked up Carl Crawford. There was the blue jays when they got Umm…was it Jose Reyes? I think there was a Marlins year about 5 years ago when they tried to stack their team to utter failure too.

ctrain03Member since 2026
8 years ago

Are “projected wins” The Vegas win totals?