Will Aaron Judge Get His $300 Million Deal?

© Jeff Hanisch-USA TODAY Sports

Instead of accepting a long-term extension with the Yankees before the season, Aaron Judge made a gigantic bet on himself. A seven-year, $213.5 million deal that starts at age 31 is no small bid for any player, and it was more than the projections — at least ZiPS — predicted at the time. But Judge clearly felt that his chances of doing significantly better outweighed the risks involved in playing out his final year of team control. Well, short of discovering he can throw 102 mph and pair it with a wicked slider, it’s hard to imagine a better season in terms of increasing the value of his next contract than Judge’s 2022. To my mind, he will almost certainly win the American League MVP — not because what Shohei Ohtani has done isn’t magical, but because the Yankees outfielder has put up one of the rare offensive seasons in MLB history that can match such an extreme level of two-way excellence. So just how high might Judge’s contract realistically go this offseason?

First off, let me stress that some appear to be underrating Judge’s season. In some quarters of the tired AL MVP debates on social media, you’ll see it described as just an ordinarily great offensive season rather than one that belongs in the history books besides those of Barry Bonds. By our reckoning, there have only been 55 position players seasons in history that notched double-digit WAR, and not all of those were driven primarily by hitting, but rather fielding (Cal Ripken Jr.), a healthy dose of transcendent baserunning (Rickey Henderson), or an incredibly weak league (Fred Dunlap). The vast majority of years like this are put up by Hall of Famers, so Judge is in rarefied air. There’s no question that he is having a special season.

The problem is that Judge isn’t likely to be paid directly for his special 2022 season, only the increased expectations resulting from such a high-level performance. Even if the Yankees were inclined to give a franchise player a bonus for an MVP season that was played in their uniform but was cost-controlled, no other team is likely to be as generous in rewarding a performance from which they didn’t benefit. When trying to gauge what Judge is likely to get, a few factors work against him, factors over which he has very little control. The biggest is that, again, the first year of his new contract will fall in his age-31 season, which means that no matter how high you think Judge’s baseline expectation is, he’s going to be expected to decline quite significantly throughout the course of the contract and relatively quickly. It’s not a coincidence that, with the nearly sole exception of Joey Votto, the mega-contracts that work out from the perspective of teams are those that start off at a very young age.

Also working against Judge is his position and the much more minor issue of baseball’s ever-larger playoff format. Judge has more defensive value than most sluggers since he has played center field better than anyone his size has any right to, but I can’t imagine that being a serious long-term proposition as he ages. What’s more, the 12-team playoff field reduces the value of a marginal win slightly, and while that likely won’t have a big direct impact on Judge’s deal, anything that alters the willingness of front offices to push in all their chips matters.

Back in June, I looked at how Judge’s bet on himself was working out. I presented a bunch of scenarios involving his performance, with the most optimistic simply assuming that his torrid early-season offensive pace would continue. Even that has turned out to be a bearish prediction; Judge had an OPS of 1.029 at the time but has been at 1.168 since. (Incidentally, for those wondering, ZiPS has his Triple Crown probability up to 29% this morning.) Running Judge’s projection in ZiPS right now gives him his spiciest future:

ZiPS Projection – Aaron Judge
Year BA OBP SLG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB OPS+ DR WAR
2023 .295 .402 .633 532 114 157 24 0 52 108 86 168 3 178 8 7.9
2024 .291 .397 .613 512 106 149 24 0 47 100 81 159 3 171 8 7.1
2025 .285 .388 .581 492 97 140 23 0 41 90 74 148 3 161 7 6.1
2026 .278 .377 .548 467 86 130 21 0 35 78 66 134 2 149 7 5.0
2027 .272 .366 .506 441 75 120 19 0 28 67 57 118 2 136 6 3.8
2028 .266 .352 .472 413 65 110 16 0 23 57 47 102 2 123 5 2.8
2029 .257 .336 .435 382 55 98 14 0 18 47 39 85 2 109 4 1.8
2030 .250 .325 .392 352 46 88 11 0 13 38 32 71 1 96 3 0.9
2031 .242 .308 .359 273 33 66 8 0 8 26 21 50 1 82 1 0.1
2032 .236 .294 .333 165 18 39 4 0 4 14 11 27 1 72 0 -0.3

ZiPS thinks eight years and somewhere in the $270 million to $290 million range looks appropriate. It’s a much better projection than Miguel Cabrera or Albert Pujols received when they inked their long-term mega-deals, so Judge has that going for him. But if we project Judge and simply make him five years younger, you can see the effects of age:

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ZiPS Projection – Aaron Judge (Born in 1997)
Year BA OBP SLG AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB OPS+ DR WAR
2023 .303 .414 .651 558 125 169 26 0 56 116 96 170 4 185 8 8.9
2024 .299 .416 .651 542 123 162 26 0 55 113 98 171 4 186 8 8.7
2025 .296 .413 .638 531 118 157 26 0 52 108 97 171 3 182 8 8.2
2026 .295 .413 .628 516 114 152 25 0 49 104 95 163 3 180 7 7.8
2027 .291 .410 .621 501 109 146 24 0 47 99 91 154 3 177 7 7.4
2028 .287 .405 .601 484 102 139 23 0 43 92 87 148 3 171 7 6.7
2029 .282 .398 .573 464 94 131 21 0 38 83 80 137 3 162 6 5.9
2030 .279 .389 .546 445 85 124 20 0 33 75 72 125 3 152 6 5.0
2031 .272 .378 .511 423 75 115 17 0 28 66 64 113 2 141 5 4.0
2032 .264 .364 .474 397 65 105 14 0 23 55 55 97 2 127 4 3.0

That’s a half-billion dollar player! There’s a reason the MLBPA would have had to win an epic death match against the owners to reduce the number of years of service time required to reach free agency. While I don’t know exactly how other teams and their internal systems are evaluating Judge, I’m certain that few, if any, are going to view aging much differently than ZiPS does. No matter how good Judge is, the only thing certain about his performance in five years is that he’ll be 36. Time is the undefeated champion of badassery; it vanquishes all of its opponents. Superstars age just like everyone else, they just start from a higher plateau. Here are the top 50 seasons by WAR for players in their age-29 to age-31 seasons, and how they did over the next eight years:

Top WAR Seasons at Ages 29, 30, and 31
Season Player WAR Next Five Next Eight Next 10
1924 Babe Ruth 12.5 47.0 76.9 88.8
1996 Barry Bonds 9.2 40.8 75.6 79.5
1903 Honus Wagner 8.4 50.4 73.3 84.8
1926 Babe Ruth 12.0 52.6 73.2 73.4
1904 Honus Wagner 9.0 51.1 72.8 79.3
1960 Willie Mays 8.3 49.7 69.0 76.7
1905 Honus Wagner 10.8 46.5 65.0 74.0
1962 Willie Mays 10.5 43.5 57.9 65.6
1963 Hank Aaron 8.4 35.7 55.6 65.1
1904 Nap Lajoie 8.8 32.3 48.6 53.1
1980 Mike Schmidt 9.0 34.2 48.1 47.6
1948 Ted Williams 8.5 23.9 45.7 59.9
1949 Ted Williams 9.9 22.4 45.5 50.0
1973 Joe Morgan 9.5 36.4 45.3 54.0
1917 Ty Cobb 11.5 28.4 44.1 49.8
1951 Stan Musial 8.6 33.2 43.7 47.7
1925 Rogers Hornsby 10.8 35.5 42.0 42.2
1974 Joe Morgan 8.6 30.4 41.9 46.7
1906 Nap Lajoie 9.4 31.8 40.8 41.5
1949 Jackie Robinson 9.6 33.3 39.3 39.3
1987 Wade Boggs 8.9 27.8 39.3 44.4
1934 Charlie Gehringer 8.5 32.3 37.0 37.0
2022 Aaron Judge 11.3 29.9 35.4 35.2
1975 Joe Morgan 11.0 23.4 34.4 35.7
2005 Alex Rodriguez 9.1 27.3 34.4 37.1
1989 Rickey Henderson 8.4 27.2 33.8 37.8
1988 Wade Boggs 8.7 22.4 33.7 37.1
1938 Mel Ott 8.7 24.6 33.6 33.5
1997 Larry Walker 9.1 24.6 32.8 32.8
1934 Lou Gehrig 10.7 31.5 31.5 31.5
1970 Carl Yastrzemski 8.9 18.2 28.9 32.0
1927 Rogers Hornsby 10.4 25.8 27.2 27.3
1961 Mickey Mantle 10.3 20.6 27.1 27.1
1991 Cal Ripken 10.6 19.9 26.0 26.8
1990 Rickey Henderson 10.2 19.6 25.5 28.1
2015 Josh Donaldson 8.7 19.2 24.0 24.0
2007 Alex Rodriguez 9.6 20.4 23.7 22.6
1997 Craig Biggio 9.3 17.6 23.6 23.7
2004 Scott Rolen 9.0 15.8 22.3 22.3
2001 Jason Giambi 9.2 18.8 21.9 22.9
1977 Rod Carew 8.6 16.6 19.9 19.9
1899 Ed Delahanty 8.4 18.1 18.1 18.1
1938 Jimmie Foxx 8.3 17.7 18.0 18.0
2009 Albert Pujols 8.4 17.2 17.7 16.6
2013 Miguel Cabrera 8.6 15.0 14.2 13.0
1906 George Stone 8.9 12.5 12.5 12.5
2010 Josh Hamilton 8.4 11.7 11.7 11.7
1953 Al Rosen 9.1 9.3 9.3 9.3
1948 Lou Boudreau 10.9 6.1 6.1 6.1
1922 George Sisler 8.3 3.3 5.4 5.4

ZiPS isn’t particularly harsh when it comes to its guess of Judge’s aging, basically placing him in the middle of a pack of inner-circle Hall of Famers. Based on these projections, it’s hard to see Judge getting too much more than $300 million.

Before we go, however, there’s one other factor to consider that does help Judge’s cause, and that is Mets owner Steve Cohen. The parsimonious nature of owners hasn’t yet hindered Cohen and while he hasn’t been explicit, hints have dropped about the team’s payroll reaching anywhere from $300 million to $345 million. That leaves room for the Mets to get into a Judge bidding war, and I doubt the idea of signing the crosstown rival’s MVP winner makes that prospect less enticing.

However things shake out, Judge’s gamble will have paid off handsomely. Rather than fight over who deserves the AL MVP, I implore you to save the squabbling for colder weather and enjoy the final chapter of one of the greatest offensive seasons in baseball history.





Dan Szymborski is a senior writer for FanGraphs and the developer of the ZiPS projection system. He was a writer for ESPN.com from 2010-2018, a regular guest on a number of radio shows and podcasts, and a voting BBWAA member. He also maintains a terrible Twitter account at @DSzymborski.

110 Comments
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Mahoney
3 years ago

It’s possible the biggest factor hurting Judge’s FA payday might be that the big spenders aren’t going all out for him because they would rather chase Ohtani for 2024 and later.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  Mahoney

I don’t know if this is true or not but I am a thousand percent sure I would rather have Ohtani going forward than Judge.

I do think it is true, more generally, that the actuarial nature of many front offices that could afford Judge (LAD, SFG, CHC) means they are probably not going to be in on Judge at this level and probably will be in on Ohtani at whatever level is deemed reasonable.

Manute Bol sings better than this
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Lol – I know some actuaries who would gladly make the numbers say what they needed to in order to get something done 😉

Pepper Martin
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Ohtani’s only going to be one year younger after next season than Judge will be now. And I would imagine that most front offices are going to forecast Ohtani as almost exclusively a DH/OF under the assumption that his arm is just not going to be able to continue being reliable over the years.

cowdiscipleMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  Pepper Martin

Any FO that doesn’t think Ohtani can continue to pitch just won’t be in on him.

steveo
3 years ago
Reply to  cowdisciple

He’ll definitely pitch, but he’s probably a 140-150 inning guy as opposed to a 190-200 inning guy and there’s nothing wrong with that as long as he’s healthy for the postseason. Also teams would probably like to see how he can handle 4 days rest (or if that’s even an option at all).

DougMember since 2019
3 years ago
Reply to  steveo

My guess is that nobody considers that a realistic option since it’s not the kind of full rest a normal starter gets.

Mahoney
3 years ago
Reply to  Mahoney

Crazy 2022 Aaron Judge Fact:

Here’s Judge’s post-All Star break numbers, prorated to 162 games:

.374/.508/.856, 79 HR, 171 RBI, 150 R, 147 BB (32 intentional), 176 K, 118 XBH, 23 SB, 1.364 OPS, and…

17.6 WAR

rosen380
3 years ago
Reply to  Mahoney

Just to go with one number, wRC+ — here are the top second half wRC+, 2000 onward:

272 Judge (2022)
256 Bonds (2002)
253 Bonds (2001)
234 Bonds (2004)
221 Yelich (2018)
218 Thome (2002)
213 Votto (2015)
213 Mike Napoli (2011)
209 Giambi (2001)
204 Man-Ram (2008)
202 Harper (2021)
202 Encarnacion (2015)
202 Ryan Howard (2006)
201 Votto (2016)
200 Soto (2021)
200 Posey (2012)

elmiguelon11Member since 2026
3 years ago

I’d imagine this is the perfect opportunity for Judge to break the record for highest AAV on a contract, surpassing Max Scherzer’s $43.3m. Could it be 7 years/$315m, for $45m per year?

Thanks for the writeup.

TKDCMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  elmiguelon11

He could, but he won’t do that. If a team wants to pay him $45 million for seven years, they will spread it over ~10 to reduce the AAV. Judge would also be amenable to that as it would allow him to surely finish his career in one spot if he wants and also get a larger contract in total dollars (the NPV may only be slightly higher to account for whatever minimal value Judge can sell his age 38+ years).

Scherzer felt like a bit of a special case that I think only another older, elite pitcher could replicate. At his age, no team wants to commit to that many years, but Scherzer also knows that those years could realistically have value, so it makes sense for the team and the player to go shorter with higher AAV. After the steroid era, it’s hard to imagine a hitter with the same situation.

johndarc
3 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

Yeah, players just want the money and maybe the bragging rights of being the top AAV (like Bauer, though he was a weirdo). Like with LeMahieu a few years ago: he wanted 4/90, Yankees gave him like 6/90 to lessen the AAV hit. He was okay with it.

Though there is obviously a limit to how many funny years they can tack onto the back of the contract to lessen the AAV. If not, give Judge 400/24 years.

Runaway ToasterMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  johndarc

I wouldn’t say it is entirely bragging rights for AAV. There is time value to getting money sooner. More likely: anyone who is good enough to be in the MLB believes strongly in himself and will make the bet he can still be a good player in X number of years.

Last edited 3 years ago by Runaway Toaster
TKDCMember since 2016
3 years ago

But even Cohen doesn’t want to dole out $50-$60 million AAV. Also, I don’t think most players care about AAV. I think they care about NPV and also just how big the number next to their name is. The NPV is the smart part of them, the big number is just for ego.

Bauer is finding out how stupid his idea was, though it crashed down in a different way than what was most likely.

Pepper Martin
3 years ago

Judge has basically allowed himself to set the terms of the negotiations, and while it’s obviously correct that he’s never going to be this good again, and that he’s starting out much older than most other top-level free agents, nobody’s ever done this before. I think it comes down tot he fact that the Yankees will pay him whatever they have to pay him to keep him, and that comes down to paying him as much as Cohen is willing to pay him. I think Judge will argue that if Mookie Betts is signed through his age 39 season, so should Judge be, and that he’s shown that an AAV of $40 million isn’t an overpay. Those two things might not be true when combined together, but I doubt Cohen or the Yankees are going to get away with paying him less than 9 years, $360 million, because if one refuses then the other one will.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago

The thing is with Judge is that it takes two owners who really don’t care that signing Judge to a $300M+ deal is a bad idea over the whole life of the contract. They need an owner who wants to win now and they don’t care about the costs. The Yankees might be one of those teams since he’s so much of the team’s identity and they’ve shown they are responsive to fan demand. The Mets, obviously, do this to some extent. The Phillies and Rangers owners have done this. In theory, so have the Padres, although at this point I can’t imagine them doling out another mega contract.

The Red Sox, Dodgers, Giants, Cubs, Braves, Astros, Mariners, and Cardinals are not going to be giving out a contract anything like this. They know what aging curves look like, they know that Judge is at the absolute height of his value, and they know his body type will break down. Their owners are not going to be gung-ho about this and the baseball ops departments aren’t either. I believe teams listed previously also know all of this, but they just don’t care.

(And of course, the Angels and Nationals aren’t taking on any big contracts while the sales are being negotiated)

I do think this probably comes down to the Mets and Yankees, and given that Cohen has never let cost worry him before, it’s entirely plausible he offers Judge $350M and the Yankees have to go meaningfully above $325M. It’s difficult to imagine deals getting too much closer to $400M but I suppose with Cohen you never know. I would also expect that the Yankees are probably not going to match the high offer, although they would probably be willing to come close.

TKDCMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I could see the Red Sox doing this, and I can’t see the Rangers handing out a third contract like this anymore than the Padres. I’d say those four teams (NYx2, Bos, Phi) with the Orioles as the mystery/wild card team.

steveo
3 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

The Phillies already have 3 corner OFs on large contracts. Adding a 4th seems unwise. The Red Sox let Mookie walk, I doubt they’d turn around and sign someone else for similar money they were unwilling to give Mookie.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  steveo

I think the way this would work for the Phillies is (1) they Dave Dombrowski, this is sort of how he works, (2) They trade Hoskins and move Castellanos to first base, which then allows Schwarber to DH full time. Or, alternately, they do the unwise thing and expect Judge to be a full time CFer for the next 5 years, which is kind of risky but also the kind of thing you do when you’re not thinking about stuff logically.

Bottom line is I would suspect that if ownership and the front office are both into the idea, logic is not going to enter into it much.

johndarc
3 years ago
Reply to  steveo

Not to mention they probably want to sign Devers back

steveo
3 years ago
Reply to  johndarc

Yep. Devers will probably be looking at around 10/300ish himself if not a bit more. Would have to think Boston will push their chips in on him after letting Xander Bogaerts walk.

TKDCMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  steveo

They let Mookie walk and win a World Series. I seriously think it is misguided to believe the Red Sox won’t be in on big contract guys. The Mookie thing was and always will be very strange. I wouldn’t take so much from that when you are talking about a large market team that prints money.

diamonddores
3 years ago
Reply to  TKDC

the Red Sox wouldn’t even pay Mookie Betts

bosoxforlifeMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  diamonddores

It is tiresome to have to read the same stuff with regards to Betts departure from Boston. The Red Sox were caught between a rock and a hard place with Betts. Most true fans here in New England believe he was never going to sign an extension with the Red Sox so, rather than risk losing him for nothing, made the best deal they could find. At least the Red Sox got something in return which the Orioles are still looking for, perhaps Kremer will deliver, in return for Machado. The fact that Jeter Downs, a very highly rated prospect at the time, is a bust has hurt.

steveo
3 years ago
Reply to  bosoxforlife

They traded away a generational player and got nothing in particular in return, you’ll hear about it for probably forever honestly.

TKDCMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  steveo

Yes, but pretending that will be their MO going forward is fantasy.

hughduffy
3 years ago
Reply to  bosoxforlife

Sadly, the Red Sox just never offered Mookie enough money. $300M/10 years wasn’t enough to seal the deal for the Red Sox.
$365M/12 years was enough to seal the deal for the Dodgers.

To be fair to the Red Sox, signing Mookie Betts would have meant that the Red Sox would exceed the luxury tax threshold for the foreseeable future. They managed to reset penalties in 2021.

I’d rather have Mookie Betts on my team.

TKDCMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  bosoxforlife

They should have tried, but you’re not completely wrong.

JaySap
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Very well said.

I suspect that even Cohen will realize that the kind of deal Judge is looking for has a high probability of going south within 2-3 years, at most.

I think the projections in the article are very optimistic, especially in terms of projected playing time (AB’s) during the next 3-4 years, which are the only years in which I think it’s reasonable to expect elite or close-to-elite batting from Judge on a rate basis.

The Yankees (and other teams) need look no further than Stanton, who’s just 2.5 years older than Judge and who was elite at a much younger age (usually a harbinger of longevity, I think).

There’s just no precedent for a deal like the one Judge wants working out well – taking into account Judge’s age and body type.

I don’t see any front office giving Judge what he wants and I’ve felt all along that the most he could do by playing out the season w/o signing was hurt his value, either via injury or performance. I didn’t think he could substantially increase what he could expect. His insane year may be changing that somewhat, but only to a point. I still think it wasn’t a wise gamble (and he could still hurt himself…).

Pepper Martin
3 years ago
Reply to  JaySap

There’s no precedent for Judge’s body type. Just doesn’t exist. When Stanton was Judge’s age, he’d just played 18 and 23 games in the last two years. And putting aside the COVID year, in the years Judge *was* injured and missed substantial playing time, he still put up 4.5 and 5.3 fWAR in 102 and 112 games, respectively. He’s just a much, much better player than Stanton ever has been.

krusty
3 years ago
Reply to  Pepper Martin

Frank Howard! Dave Winfield! Ritchie Sexson! There have been plenty of supertalls and their aging has been, generally, pretty poor.

Judge is one of the most athletic players ever at his height (only Winfield might be more athletic? fun question!) but he is absolutely with precedent, especially now that he’s laid off the weightlifting.

carterMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  krusty

Sure, tall. But none of those guys were nearly as big or athletic as Judge. Judge is more like a Tight End, or a 90’s era power forward

Pepper Martin
3 years ago
Reply to  krusty

1) Dave Winfield was an inch shorter and 50 pounds lighter than Aaron Judge;
2) Dave Winfield hit .290/.377/.491 as a 40 year old to finish 5th in the MVP voting.
3) Frank Howard’s 4 All Star Appearances all came from ages 31-34
4) Sexson was a skinny lanky guy who was never particularly good outside of home run hitting.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  JaySap

I guess it depends what he wants. I am pretty sure that it’s a bad idea to sign him to a $300M deal, and I’m pretty sure that most teams see what I see. He’s big, he’s not especially young, he’s been healthy the last couple of years but there are some injury stuff to worry about, etc.

But signing a guy like Judge to a mega-contract is akin to buying a famous work of art for tens (or hundreds) of millions of dollars. We’re talking about signing a guy who is going to break Roger Maris’s single-season home run total by leaps and bounds, and he’s got a decent chance to end up at #3 when this is all done, beating out a whole bunch of steroid guys. In terms of walk years, this is basically the best walk year in the history of free agency, and it’s not in a particularly subtle way either. It’s in a way that captures the imagination of both rich and poor alike.

For guys like Steve Cohen (and there may be only one owner like Steve Cohen now that Arte Moreno and the Lerners are out of the game, we’ll see!) this is a chance to get a status symbol that is way beyond anything his buddies will ever get. This is what drives $300M contracts. This is not a rational decision, it’s an emotional one.

hughduffy
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Andrew Friedman: “If you’re always rational about every free agent, you will finish third on every free agent.”

gettwobrute79Member since 2026
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

You keep saying it’s a bad idea to sign him to that deal. Why? Because it will be a bad deal from 2028-2030? News flash: almost every long term contract does, that’s the nature of the beast. If you think about it only from a rational place, as Hugh quoted AF, you’ll finish third on every FA. And likely keep finishing in third in your division and rarely make the playoffs. But hey, you thought rationally!

Teams that are contenders that really need that big piece to push them into that inner circle would love to have Judge help get them there. I’d also add that this season for Judge is incredibly surprising. It’s not out of nowhere, but I think very few thought he’d replicate or exceed his rookie season. So we’re in uncharted territory with a player like him.

No team is out there striving for a $ per WAR trophy. They’re trying to win (my Pirates being one of the big exceptions). So it’s not just an emotional decision, it’s a realistic one to try to sign him as well.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  gettwobrute79

No, it will be bad deal from 2025-2027 and an atrocious deal from 2028-2030. The ZiPs deal suggests $270-290M, but I don’t think ZiPs has any real comps for guys his size. He is a giant, and the chances of something going wrong with that much pounding on his joints and back is high.

I mean, the deal could still turn out well. I could be wrong. But the more likely scenario is he’s going to break and probably sooner rather than later. I would rather spend $300M…well, a lot of different ways.

Last edited 3 years ago by sadtrombone
TheUncool
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

That’s a bit silly to essentially suggest ZiPs is being too generous on Judge w/out providing real support for that.

ZiPs is generally quite conservative in its projections and rarely seem to overshoot the actual results by all that much… especially over a long enough stretch (and large enough sample).

I’m not suggesting a $300M deal would be a particularly good idea or would likely work out in this case, but given ZiPs projection, it’s probably reasonable enough.

Is there some substantial likelihood that aging/injuries will cost Judge substantial playing time and/or performance degradation in some years going forward? Sure. But there’s also decent likelihood he’ll actually exceed the projections in some year or two (or more) as well. He’s already done that before, including this year. And so have many other players… because such projections are mainly going for a fairly conservative, middle-of-the-road (guess)estimate, which will plenty often be lower than actual results just as they will often be higher than actuals (for whatever reasons) too.

Last edited 3 years ago by TheUncool
User79
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

A decade ago the Yankees played hard ball with Derek Jeter, who wanted a two hundred million dollar contract, and got him to stay at 51 million. I think the Yankees have been saddled with bad contracts in the past, seen what bad contracts can do to themselves and other teams, and know that the fan base will forgive them for letting a star go if they build a better team for it in the short term future. Derek jeter was not just a star but a Yankees legend who won multiple championships.

I think judge is phenomenal but he’s going into his age 31 season. If ZIPS projects him at 270 million I could see the Yankees go to 300. But if the Mets offer 350 I think the Yankees let him go and start pushing excitement for their next generation of young stars.

FreshOJMember since 2025
3 years ago
Reply to  User79

I don’t buy the “bad contract” argument for the big market teams. The yankees can easily sustain 50-100 mill of “dead” money and still have ample money available to field a playoff level team. It’s just an excuse and an unwillingness to use their money as a competitive advantage.

thebossjarhead
3 years ago
Reply to  FreshOJ

This is a real Yankee-fan attitude (coming from a Yankee fan). These contracts do make a difference and can hinder a team, as many of us seem to forget the decade of mediocrity the Yankees went through after being locked into all the contracts they signed to win 2009.

Domingo AyalaMember since 2024
3 years ago
Reply to  FreshOJ

“excuse and an unwillingness to use their money as a competitive advantage”. Just because you can handle dead money doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be averse to it. Rich teams may not be hurt as much, but they wouldn’t want it any more than a poor team.

Pepper Martin
3 years ago
Reply to  User79

When Derek Jeter was a free agent he was 36 years old and coming off a season where he’d just hit .270/.340/.370. fWAR wasn’t really in vogue at the time but he’d just put up 2.3 of it. That’s… not really a useful comp in any way.

User79
3 years ago
Reply to  Pepper Martin

It was not intended to be a comp for the numbers. It was intended to show that the Yankees are willing to let someone walk, rather than vastly overpaying. Derek jeter is at least the Yankees legend that judge is.

The numbers being thrown around like 350 million sound like a vast overpay. And the thought (from another poster) that the Yankees can afford 50 to 100 million of dead money is ignoring that the Yankees have to plan around an entire roster, which you can’t simply overpay everyone.

User79
3 years ago
Reply to  Pepper Martin

In retrospect I should have used Robbie Cano as the comparison, who entered contract negotiations for his age 31 season. Cano was a homegrown Yankee star, part of the 2009 champion team, and amassed 25 WAR over his last four seasons with the Yankees with a 140+ wRC while playing decent defense at a premium position. Robbie Cano, don’t ya know?

No he did not hit 60 homeruns in his last year with the Yankees. But he was preternaturally durable, playing almost every game of his career there. EVEN THEN, the knock on him, if you will recall, was his “thick” body type that people didn’t think would age well. As far as I can tell, Cano was never out of shape, and never became out of shape. But that characterization prevented the Yankees from going beyond $175 million, and the Mariners took him away.

Again, I am just disputing the view that the Yankees will have to match the highest bid out there. They have shied away from it before.

keithk
3 years ago
Reply to  User79

Derek was never going to go play anywhere else. Yankee fans (myself included) all were confident of that. Cano was a surprise because he seemed to love playing in NY and his father was gushing about him being a career Yankee. The Mariners just blew him away with a desperation overbid.

Thing is, the Cano contract – signed at the same age as Judge – was a bad contract in the final years. He was worth the contract dollars through the first seven, which is what the Yankees offered him, and utter dead weight after that. It’s really amazing how much that matches up. Front offices seem to have gotten so much smarter in the last decade that it’s hard to see anyone overbidding like that.

Then again, if I suddenly had Steve Cohen’s money I might spend it like it was going out of style. How else do you spend that much money?

TheGarrettCooperFanClub
3 years ago
Reply to  User79

I think with the Cano case, it was more so that the Yankees were really feeling the headaches of those mega deals (2013 Yanks had most of their big contracts injured for pretty much the whole season, and A-Rod was being suspended at the same time). I don’t think they were really in the mood to go and do another 10-year deal at that point in time.

johndarc
3 years ago
Reply to  User79

And they let Jeter go test the market to see if he could find something better. He could not, and so he stayed.

User79
3 years ago
Reply to  johndarc

That’s probably correct, although jeter himself wouldn’t say if he got a better offer. And neither do we know that the Yankees would have entered a bidding war if he had.

There is an assumption that the Mets or another team would throw huge numbers like 350 at him, and the Yankees would have to respond in kind. My point is I think one or both of these is not true.

cowdiscipleMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

The only thing I disagree with here is that a 300m deal for Judge for the Yankees/Mets/pick your mega market team is a bad idea.

Is it an overpay on a $/WAR basis? Yeah, probably. Will it reduce the team’s profit margins? Maybe by a hair, we don’t know. Will it reduce their total profit? I doubt it.

There’s value (especially to those teams) in an ultra high profile star beyond on-field production. There’s value (especially to those teams) in concentrating WAR in a single roster spot. There’s value in getting most of the production in the next few years when they’ll be top WS contenders.

There must be a point where the cost outweighs all this, but I suspect it’s more like 360m than 300. 300m is barely even an overpay based on the ZiPS projections.

JimmieFoxxalorianMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

There have also been suggestions that the Red Sox are willing to make Judge a strong offer, and speculation they haven’t extended Devers in order to at least be able to entertain that possibility. How real or imagined is anyone’s guess.

I think there’s no way the Yankees let him go. They will overpay to keep him and absorb the hit on his declining years, rather than face the public relations nightmare of losing the face of the franchise following an historically phenomenal season.

nmirraMember since 2017
3 years ago

A century ago, the cheapskate Red Sox sold Babe Ruth to the Yankees. The best outcome here is the Yankees don’t want to pay Judge and he signs with the Red Sox. Baseball needs more curses.

hopbittersMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  nmirra

Ah, but just think how glorious our deliverance from said curse (Judgement?) will be in, oh, 2109 or so.

johndarc
3 years ago
Reply to  nmirra

Fortunately, the Red Sox have shown they are also cheap. Will spend billions on a soccer team but let X go and trade Mookie and maybe not re-sign Devers.

LightenUpFGMember since 2018
3 years ago
Reply to  johndarc

No, no, 2023 is going to start the “Fooled Ya!” campaign where the Sox go old school and sign Bogaerts, Devers AND Judge. Bad contracts be damned!

soddingjunkmailMember since 2016
3 years ago

Defying Betteridge’s law so brazenly won’t be tolerated Szymborski!!!!

Pepper Martin
3 years ago

Unless Judge gets paralyzed in a train accident I can’t foresee any world where he gets less than $300 million.

Jason BMember since 2017
3 years ago
Reply to  Pepper Martin

Logging accident? Whaling accident? SIGN THAT MAN

Mike NMN
3 years ago

The money is interesting to ruminate over, as are the performance projections, but what’s really interesting is the pure baseball of it. There’s an implicit understanding that this is something unusual that we are watching. You don’t have to like Judge (and you certainly don’t have to be a Yankee’s fan) to appreciate it. The chase is the better for framing it as chasing an AL record and Ruth and Maris, rather than an all time record (where we have to get into the Bonds/Mac/Sosa thing, I don’t think we need to worry so much about whether Ohtani or Judge ends up with the MVP, 60 and Ruth is a magic number.

Paul-SF
3 years ago

I haven’t done all of the math, but if Williams 1948 isn’t the only player on the chart to average a higher WAR over his next ten years than over his next five, he’s in very select company. That’s a hell of a late-career peak.

Spahn_and_Sain
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul-SF

You’re right, he’s the only one.
If you sort by the percentage drop-off, Bonds is the next closest with 8.16/yr falling only 2.6% to 7.95.
Ruth and Aaron the only others to keep it within 10%.

Spahn_and_Sain
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul-SF

Also—and not to discount Williams putting up 9.7 WAR as a 38-yo at all—his 5-year stats are substantially decreased by the fact that he missed the majority of both ’52 and ’53 to Korea, but did appear in both seasons so they both count here toward the 5-year total despite only having 43 games between them.

The Stranger
3 years ago
Reply to  Paul-SF

As noted, Williams missed almost two of those five years because he was flying combat missions in Korea. He didn’t really get better in the latter part of that 10-year stretch, just played a lot more.

I’m constantly in awe of the sheer over the top 50s manliness of Ted Williams. Just your typical baseball playing Navy pilot with a supermodel wife who spent his spare time hunting and fishing. It’s like if you asked a six year old what they want to be when they grow up.

Last edited 3 years ago by The Stranger
tomerafan
3 years ago

He’ll get the *opportunity* for $300M in a very complicated deal. My prediction: something like a 3 year / $120M base (or 4 year / $160M) with player and team options or opt-outs that vest on certain AB numbers. In other words, if Judge is healthy/productive for 3-4 years, he will vest into at least $300M or the ability to opt-out if that for some reason suits him better. And if not, then team options will vest at lower values.

cowdiscipleMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  tomerafan

I do like that contract structure, but I think to get Judge to agree to the variable component of it you’d have to let it top out closer to $400m. I don’t think there’s really any doubt at all he could get $280m guaranteed.

steveo
3 years ago
Reply to  tomerafan

There’s zero chance of this happening. He’s been a top 5 player since he entered the league. He’s not signing some weird contract like this. He’ll likely get one team opt out and that’s probably it. He’s putting up an 11 WAR season lmao he’s not signing a team friendly deal with plate appearance numbers.

steveo
3 years ago
Reply to  steveo

Sorry, I meant player opt out after a few years not team opt out.

tomerafan
3 years ago
Reply to  steveo

Zero chance eh? For a player in his 30s who has only played full seasons in half of his MLB seasons? Even in 2020 he missed half the short season. And at some point he’ll be moving to a corner. I think the odds are higher than he gets one year 60 million than 300 guaranteed.

steveo
3 years ago
Reply to  tomerafan

He’s putting up a top 25 season of all time from a batter and on pace for 11.5 WAR lmao, he’s not signing a one year contract. Be serious. And he’s played 3/5 full seasons and he played in 100+ games in the other two years, and the other year was the covid year (which he also missed a couple weeks from covid). The injury issues are so tiring and overblown. He got HBP one year and missed like 2 months.

Last edited 3 years ago by steveo
tomerafan
3 years ago
Reply to  steveo

I should know better than to argue logic and reason against the homeristic passion of a Yankees fan.

But you’re right about one thing. He’s not signing a one-year contract. The problem is your reading comprehension skills, as I never said he would. I said that the odds were higher that he’d sign a 1/60 than get $300+ guaranteed/outright without any types of clauses, opt-outs, options, etc.

Meanwhile, you fail basic math. This is his 6th season; he’s played 3/6 full seasons (not 3/5) including this one. In the COVID season, he played less than half (28 games).

<i>The injury issues are so tiring and overblown. He got HBP one year and missed like 2 months.</i>

And then you acknowledge the injury history while calling it overblown. So you’re going to conveniently ignore the multiple calf and oblique injuries too? (Note – I’m counting 2016 as a “full season” but he missed time that year, too, the first time his oblique flared. It ended his year.) News flash: recurring oblique issues are a problem with heavy swingers as they age. Teams won’t simply dismiss that, no matter how good he is in 2022.

But sure, ignore facts and base your argument on how good he is this year. I’ll stand my ground. It’s an amazing, amazing, amazing season and he’s a hell of a player. But he’s not getting $300M fully guaranteed & outright at his age.

TheUncool
3 years ago
Reply to  tomerafan

Agreed on most of your points, except you’re likely wrong about his contract likelihoods.

300M isn’t that far off from the ZiPS projection, and ZiPS is generally quite conservative. And actual contracts have tended to exceed ZiPS projections by some bit, so 300M would be very much in line w/ reality.

A 1-year, 60M deal would be the opposite of being in line w/ reality. There’s just no remote reason to expect that at all and shouldn’t be mentioned at all no matter how much you personally dislike a 300M deal, which is in line w/ reality.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  tomerafan

He already got a deal for $220M or something like that, and the Yankees definitely aren’t getting him for less than this after he exploded this year.

If he’s getting a more complicated deal that involves vesting or opt-outs or stuff like that, I’d guess that the amount he’s guaranteed for will be close to $200M and the amount it vests for will be close to $400M.

But I don’t necessarily know that he’ll take that over guaranteed money. If I had to guess, I’d say the floor at this point is the 10 year, $270M deal that A-Rod got after opting out. We know more about aging curves now but salaries overall have gone up, so I think it’s a fair comp (I think they were the same age, too). Add in a no-trade clause and that’s the floor.

As for the ceiling? The ceiling is whatever Steve Cohen and Hal Steinbrenner and whatever mystery owner decide it is.

tomerafan
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Right. No one’s going to get him for less than that 220M. But this amazing season doesn’t inflate that contract offer by 40% over 10 years. Because the odds of him performing like this for more than a couple of years are so small and because he’s a player with a history of incomplete seasons due to injury.

So, I think for him to get a lot more than 220, it’s going to have to be an incentive lead in kick in opt out deal. The ceiling has been raised but the risk of minimal AB’s over the life of the contract is still the same.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  tomerafan

yeah, I strenuously disagree on this one. He’s gonna get paid. I know what your logic is about what he should get, and I think at least one team and possibly more isn’t going to care.

tomerafan
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

$10 consideration for charity?

You win if: he gets $300M+ without optouts/etc.
I win if: he gets <$300M without optouts, or $300M+ with them

Any other outcome we push.

Loser donates $10 to the winner’s charity.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  tomerafan

Why not? I think the minimum for him in guaranteed money is $270M. But I’ll split the difference between that and $300M for the sake of a bet. Or is $285M too low for you? I might be able to go to $290M.

$285M or more in guaranteed money — sadtrombone wins
Below $285M in guaranteed money — tomerafan wins

Note that this means you win if he signs a “bet on himself” deal like Carlos Correa did. I don’t really know that we need the more complicated vesting options / opt-outs types of things, since in both of your scenarios he’d get less than $300M guaranteed, and that seems to be the only area where we disagree.

Please don’t make me donate to an anti-vaxxer org. Thx.

tomerafan
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

If “guaranteed money” doesn’t include option years, then I’ll take the simple under on $285M. (And if it’s between $285 and $300, I’ll grumble atcha, but still pay up.)

I know I seek fair and balanced reporting on labor issues, but I’m far from an anti-vaxxer. My charity is Per Scholas: http://www.perscholas.org

Per Scholas prepares individuals for entry-level careers in technology, with most of their learners coming from underrepresented communities. It is the most successful workforce relevance program operating at a national scale. Typical Per Scholas graduates have a pre-training income of $10,000 and post-training income of $42,000 or often much more. The organization has successfully deployed over 16,000 Americans into entry level jobs.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  tomerafan

It wouldn’t include option years but would include buyouts. So a player option that Judge could decline could put him over 285M. So a 275M deal with a player option for 150M wouldn’t put him over, unless he also would get 15M on the buyout.

speedy
3 years ago

Ohtani will be 29/30 in his 1st yr of next big contract, but I don’t hear much people selling him short. Cabrera and Pujols were 1st B and DH throughout their 30s. Judge is still more versatile, and let’s face it, doesn’t have as much a weight problem. He can transition to LF eventually and has the size to play 1st later after that, along w DH. Ohtani can only DH when he’s not pitching.

cowdiscipleMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  speedy

The Angels only let Ohtani DH when he’s not pitching. He played the outfield in NPB, and he’s clearly fast enough. If I were trying to sign him I’d be tempted to let him – I’m pretty sure he wants to, and the Angels’ willingness to let him be a two way player was a big part of why he chose them in the first place.

Last edited 3 years ago by cowdisciple
speedy
3 years ago
Reply to  cowdisciple

They, and other teams, won’t take the chance of him getting hurt i think playing the field on some diving catch or running into a wall. He’s only stolen 11 bags this season also for that reason (I think). Which is a shame. Him and trout should’ve have 20 stls a piece, but don’t for fear of injury. And who knows what Ohtani wants. That’s a mystery.

User79
3 years ago
Reply to  speedy

It is sometimes forgotten that Ohtani can play outfield. We are not sure how well, but if he focuses on it, my guess is pretty well. And I think he could handle first as well.

Also, pitchers who make it to thirty tend to be durable, and some percentage of them can pitch into their late 30s. By next year if Ohtani pitches another complete season I think the health risk for his arm will be lower in peoples minds.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  speedy

cowdisciple touches on some of this stuff but the people out there trying to argue that one year doesn’t make a difference or that there’s a risk that Ohtani blows out his arm and can’t pitch are really selling the differences short. At the minimum the extra year means that teams are willing to give Ohtani an extra year. At the maximum, Ohtani could easily play the outfield (maybe even CF) if his arm gives out and Judge’s unusual physique creates many questions about how quickly his body will break down.

I suppose lots of things could happen next year with Ohtani, where he could slump or get hurt or something, or he could sign an extension with a team that trades for him this offseason and it will all be moot. And maybe teams will spend all their money this offseason and Ohtani just gets the short end of the stick. But I strongly suggest there are going to be far more teams interested in signing Ohtani for $300M (or at any level, really) than Judge.

Billsaints
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

I think it’s also important to remember that ohtani didn’t really give a crap about lots of money in Japan and when coming to the States. He’ll likely go to the place that lets him do what he wants with the best chance of winning.

MorboTheAnnihilator
3 years ago

Great article Dan, but I have one massive bone to pick:
“Judge has more defensive value than most sluggers since he has played center field better than anyone his size has any right to”

This is just a regurgitation of a baseball trueism that has been repeated without support for years. I would say that it is one of the biggest remaining inefficiencies left in the sport and for some reason the Pirates are the one leading the pack in exploiting it by keeping Oneil Cruz at short. We’ve seen a generation of tall and excellent short stops develop recently https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/tall-shortstop-become-the-norm/ . At this point the assumption that tall players can’t play premium defensive positions should be firmly in the dumpster but for some reason the idea that they can’t keeps getting perpetuated for no reason.

For decades it was believed that elite sprinters couldn’t be more than about 6 feet tall maximum and the Usain Bolt came and literally obliterated every previous record. But as it turns out stride length matters more than stride frequency which is limited to about 5 strides/second. There are other examples like how the average height of NHL goalies has increased significantly over time due to their increased reach and larger size relative to the net, the entirety of the NBA, the average height of NFL players has increased from about 5’11” near the beginning to 6’2″ today https://noahveltman.com/nflplayers/ .

Assuming that baseball is somehow different from pretty much every other sport is just silly. Taller and larger framed individuals will naturally have more mass and strength as well as greater leverage and reach. In most sports this is a huge advantage with the exceptions being tumbling sports like gymnastics where the reduced moment of inertia of smaller individuals far exceeds the increased strength of larger frames. The construction and use of golf clubs also limits a lot of the height advantage of larger individuals in golf but with the averages still favoring taller individuals https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.pga.com/archive/news/golf-buzz/pga-tour-most-productive-height-2013-2018%3famp=1

This is all a long winded way of saying: I think im the coming years we will see far more Aaron Judge and Oneil Cruze sized players all across the field, including premium defensive positions, than we will David Eckstein sized players because basic physics determines peak potential for athletic performance. Unfortunately for all of us that love watching player like Eckstein grittiness and scrappiness do not factor into the laws of physics as we currently understand them.

MorboTheAnnihilator
3 years ago
Reply to  Dan Szymborski

That’s a completely fair point about Judge’s speed for a center fielder but he still grades out better than you would expect base on his speed. He has mainly played right field in his career and I think most people would assume that would be his position at 35.

As for Cruze despite his speed most scouts and commentators doubt his ability to stick at SS. But most commentators posed the same questions about the ability of Corey Seager, Carlos Correa, Trea Turner, and Fernando Tatis Jr. to stay at short. Obviously some of them are better defenders than others but that can be said about any group of short stops.

TheUncool
3 years ago

Don’t conflate everything together. There are diffs and degrees.

Just because there are some questions about each of those players’ viability at SS doesn’t mean their viability are all the same as Cruz’s and that Cruz will end up doing equally well playing D at SS.

MorboTheAnnihilator
3 years ago
Reply to  TheUncool

I’m saying that there is a general skepticism about taller players playing premium defensive positions that is completely unwarranted.

hothands
3 years ago

I like this take

miltonfriedman
3 years ago

Tigers need to sign him:

  1. Greene
  2. Judge
  3. Baez
  4. Carpenter
  5. Torkelson
  6. Candelario
  7. Haase/Rogers
  8. Baddoo
  9. Kreider,Shoop,Lupious
steveo
3 years ago
Reply to  miltonfriedman

I think it’s a year too soon. They should go after someone like Devers next offseason who lines up better with their young core.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  miltonfriedman

This brings up a serious question–how much more money would the Tigers (who have won 57 games) have to pay Judge to beat out the Yankees and Mets (who have lost 58 and 56 games, respectively) to land him? I’m sure he has his price but I’m guessing that it would have to be at least 15% more. Like, a $400M deal if the other teams are offering him $350M.

steveo
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

It might be more considering Judge’s endorsements as a Yankees is probably worth 5-10M a year.

bosoxforlifeMember since 2016
3 years ago

It is very difficult to look at this 6’7″ – 280 pound man and not fear that his body type is more likely to experience an early decline in performance than a smaller man. The two recent huge albatross contracts given to Pujols and Cabrera, two very large men but still not Judge, are enough to give an owner and his GM nightmares. I am looking at Steve Cohen and the Yankees as the two most likely players in the game. The Braves have done such an amazing job signing their core players to long term contracts at very reasonable cost that they might be able to enter the bidding war. They could take a chance on Grissom and Albies up the middle and save big money by not signing Swanson. Any other team would surprise me.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  bosoxforlife

I don’t think he’s anything like Pujols and Cabrera in terms of body type. He’s not exactly overweight and it will take a lot for him to get there. But in addition to being pretty heavy, he is very tall and very strong. The biggest issue for him are (1) the pounding on his knees and back from being so tall and heavy and (2) him being so freaking strong that he just rips himself to pieces.

The comps for him (who came before him) are guys like Giancarlo Stanton, Mark Trumbo, and Frank Thomas. Big frames, huge power, heavy but they never looked it. If I had to guess what his future looked like, I would guess it looks like one of those three guys.

In the Frank Thomas scenario, he’s rarely fully healthy and muddles along as a decent offensive contributor, but every so often he turns back the clock and turns in something that looks vaguely like a vintage performance (Thomas did this at both age 32 and 35).

In the Stanton scenario, his offensive game gradually erodes due to small injuries sapping his tools, and his availability becomes a serious question.

In the Trumbo scenario, the pounding permanently destroys his body and he can’t even stand in the batters box anymore.

bosoxforlifeMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

It is the pounding on the knees and hips that I am most concerned with also. It is just part of being so big and while he is a superb athlete it is still hard to not take that into consideration when offering a long term deal to a 31 year old player. I would put Stanton in the albatross contract bin as well even though the Marlins are eating some of his deal. He is nothing but a DH, when he isn’t on the IL, and a very expensive one at that. While Thomas never had a similar contract his last eight years look a lot like Stanton Those deals have a terrible track record.

Pepper Martin
3 years ago
Reply to  bosoxforlife

You know who’s roughly the same height and weight as Judge? LeBron James. Karl Malone. I wouldn’t make too much of a comparison out of Pujols and Cabrera, who were never particularly athletic to begin with.

bosoxforlifeMember since 2016
3 years ago
Reply to  Pepper Martin

No question these great athletes continued to perform brilliantly well into their 30’s but baseball is a more difficult game to maintain that kevel of performance. Experience is a great aid in basketball and, being honest, the star system helps these players as well. There is no way to fake the inability to get around on major league quality velocity.

solthecutter
3 years ago

Why are the projections so low on SB? He’s got 16 this year.

keithk
3 years ago
Reply to  solthecutter

His previous career high was 9 as a rookie and he had 6 last year. Presumably ZIPS thinks that this year is an outlier. It probably is.

TheUncool
3 years ago
Reply to  solthecutter

Does that even matter (at least for this purpose)? Nobody’s gonna be paying him big $$$ for his SBs. In fact, whoever signs him might very insist he stops trying to steal bases to preserve his body better to perform over the long haul where it matters most…

AlbyMember since 2025
3 years ago

Few things demonstrate the deterioration of fandom more than people caring how much players are paid.

gottaIch116Member since 2020
3 years ago
Reply to  Alby

I don’t normally believe in superstars put people in seats (I think winning does), but I think Judge accomplishes just that. I bet he’s worth a lot more to the Yankees than what you normally pay for a win. He’s a homegrown talent that does the most crowd pleasing thing (hit home runs) at a record rate and the Yankees might not make the playoffs without him.

Also. It’s not rare to see teams spending way above expectations on megastars. Isn’t Gerrit Cole an example of that? Granted, teams pay a premium for top line starters because they bring more value in the playoffs.

Honestly. What do the Yankees do without Judge next year? We know they aren’t going to sign a shortstop. That cuts out Correa, Bogaerts, Swanson, and Turner. Anyone pursuing Degrom will be competing with the Mets for a starter that also has a history of injuries. Free agent class seems thin after that and Yankee fans are way more attached to Judge.

Also the Yankees can do it without going over the luxury tax.

AND… they have the spectre of Cohen and the Mets offering a crazy contract… OR the Rangers freaking out that they are now spending a ton on their aging middle infield, that they must win now, and convincing themselves that Judge will save them.

I can’t think of a better candidate (this offseason and others) than 2022 Judge to spend a premium on.

Last edited 3 years ago by gottaIch116
Domingo AyalaMember since 2024
3 years ago
Reply to  Alby

Lots of people, particularly on this site, care about roster building. It’s an interesting aspect of the game. I know that if a team pays X player Y amount, this means they won’t be able to afford player Z. I also know that if they have too much dead money my favorite team may not be competitive and could be in a hole for years.

southie
3 years ago

Al Avila being fired doesn’t help.

Lanidrac
3 years ago

I’d certainly count Scherzer’s mega contract as working out for the Nationals.

AnonMember since 2025
3 years ago

Just wanted to point out that if Judge were to achieve the forward-looking ZiPS projections he would be at 487 HR plus how many ever more he hits this year so basically 490ish. Looking at WAR he would be at 70.9 WAR. Pretty darn amazing for a guy who didn’t debut until 24, wasn’t a starter until 25 and then lost significant time in his age 26, 27 and 28 seasons for various reasons.

MikeD
3 years ago

Yes. He will get his $300M+ deal.