ZiPS 2021 Projections: Colorado Rockies

After having typically appeared in the hallowed pages of Baseball Think Factory, Dan Szymborski’s ZiPS projections have now been released at FanGraphs for nine years. The exercise continues this offseason. Below are the projections for the Colorado Rockies.

Batters

This is one of the worst teams in the majors — certainly the worst that seems blissfully unaware of that fact. The Rockies have two position players they can count on to be good, and one of them, Nolan Arenado, is no guarantee to start the 2021 season with Colorado. Even after a weak 60-game stretch in a year everyone would like to forget, if the Rockies do shop Arenado, they will get significant interest in the market. But would they actually close a deal? I’m not sure they will be realistic about the effect his contract and the unknown of an opt-out will have on trade offers. Regardless, ZiPS expects a bounceback season as he continues to make his mid-career Hall of Fame case.

If the Rockies do trade Arenado — and maybe even if they don’t — it would be hard for them to avoid trading Trevor Story if they actually do go for a full-on rebuild. Colorado has had poor fortune with some of its top offensive prospects, but Story has been one of the best kinds of surprises: a player who got far less press as a prospect than others in the organization (despite being a high draft pick) but kept hitting as he went up the ladder, got to the majors first and left the competition scrambling to find other positions. One of those players, Brendan Rodgers, is at risk of going the way of Ryan McMahon, in that he’s done everything he could in the minors to earn a chance in the majors only to find the team casually disinterested in distributing the necessary playing time.

The bright spots for Colorado end with Arenado and Story. There are few players on this roster who should be starting for a major league team; after more injuries and some ugly numbers when on the field in 2020, David Dahl may not actually be one of them. Josh Fuentes is currently listed as the first baseman on our depth charts, but I don’t expect him to end the offseason with that job. It’s possible that the Rockies stick with him at first, but his .306 batting average shouldn’t mask his .759 OPS at the position.

On the plus side, the Rockies got a good long look at promising youngster Matt Kemp, and Ian Desmond is coming off the best season of his Colorado career with an 86 wRC+ and -0.3 WAR.

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Pitchers

Things are less bleak here, though likely nowhere near enough to compensate for the team’s all-encompassing malpractice in the lineup. Germán Márquez is just below the top tier of starting pitchers, but he’s survived Coors Field better than most. In a good season, he ought to make some noise at the back of Cy Young ballots; if I’d had an NL Cy Young vote in 2018, I’d have given him a spot on the ballot over Kyle Freeland. Signed through 2023 with an option for ’24, I think Márquez would actually fetch more on the market than either Arenado or Story, as weird as that might sound.

There were reasons to both be happy and worried about Freeland’s 2020. His line was closer to reasonable expectations than his dreadful 2019 season as — predictably — his home-run rate returned to relative normalcy. It’s not quite captured in a computer projection, but I like that he tinkered with his repertoire and focused on his curve and changeup quite a lot during the season. But on the negative side, losing a strikeout a game for two straight seasons is rarely an auspicious sign, so it keeps me in “hold” rather than “buy” territory.

As usual, the bullpen needs help. ZiPS likes Scott Oberg, Mychal Givens, and Carlos Estévez just fine, but there isn’t a great deal of upside, and the quality falls off after this trio. One exception is Daniel Bard, one of the majors’ best comeback stories and who hadn’t been both healthy and effective since 2011. He came back throwing 97 mph and struck out 27 batters in 24 1/3 innings for Colorado; his projection might in fact be low. In this case, though, I can’t really expect ZiPS to have a great feel for a player in this type of situation.

Matt Pierpont is an interesting minor league free agent as a pitcher ZiPS thought should be in Colorado’s bullpen for 2021, but like countless others before (Mike Tauchman, Tom Murphy, Roberto Ramos, etc), the Rockies never showed much interest in him despite his success in the minors. He didn’t make this list, but Alexander Guillen, signed by the Marlins, had a projection of similar quality.

Ballpark graphic courtesy Eephus League. Depth charts constructed by way of those listed here.

Batters – Standard
Player B Age PO PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS
Trevor Story R 28 SS 650 587 96 160 35 6 33 86 57 176 27 7
Nolan Arenado R 30 3B 613 547 86 158 32 3 32 99 56 89 2 2
Colton Welker R 23 3B 518 472 56 133 28 2 15 67 36 104 3 1
Kevin Pillar R 32 CF 586 552 79 156 36 3 17 74 23 90 13 5
Charlie Blackmon L 34 RF 603 545 93 159 29 6 22 76 46 112 5 5
Ryan McMahon L 26 2B 524 469 65 118 24 3 22 73 49 162 5 2
Yonathan Daza R 27 CF 535 501 61 148 28 5 7 45 26 89 12 8
Raimel Tapia L 27 LF 527 489 68 144 29 8 8 48 31 106 17 4
Dom Nuñez L 26 C 369 319 44 69 14 1 13 40 42 105 5 2
David Dahl L 27 LF 429 394 56 109 21 6 18 58 27 119 5 3
Garrett Hampson R 26 2B 513 465 64 121 18 7 11 39 39 127 25 6
Ryan Vilade R 22 3B 608 543 71 138 24 7 10 49 48 129 15 9
Mike Gerber L 28 CF 488 448 62 114 30 3 20 69 33 148 4 3
Brendan Rodgers R 24 2B 389 359 46 92 20 2 12 46 22 88 5 2
Brian Serven R 26 C 326 292 35 64 14 1 9 30 21 82 1 4
Chris Owings R 29 2B 366 337 45 84 17 2 12 43 24 99 11 4
Eric Stamets R 29 SS 371 335 39 74 15 2 8 33 25 102 10 1
Tony Wolters L 29 C 333 294 33 70 13 2 2 28 29 70 0 1
Connor Joe R 28 1B 442 383 54 93 22 3 12 49 49 102 1 3
Josh Fuentes R 28 1B 499 470 60 126 27 4 13 60 18 130 4 2
Chris Rabago R 28 C 306 273 29 59 12 2 4 22 27 79 10 5
Max George R 25 C 345 298 39 62 12 2 8 27 32 91 17 7
Elias Díaz R 30 C 340 315 33 84 16 0 6 38 22 57 1 0
Jose Briceno R 28 C 277 260 28 59 9 1 10 32 13 70 4 1
Alan Trejo R 25 SS 504 468 51 112 21 2 12 45 24 129 5 6
Kelby Tomlinson R 31 SS 367 334 35 83 12 2 0 19 27 75 7 4
Daniel Murphy L 36 1B 411 379 46 104 22 1 12 55 27 61 1 0
Austin Bernard B 25 C 252 220 24 38 8 2 5 17 27 93 2 1
Sam Hilliard L 27 RF 522 476 65 110 18 5 22 58 41 183 19 8
Matt Kemp R 36 LF 377 346 43 93 14 0 17 64 28 95 1 0
Vince Fernandez L 25 LF 424 376 49 77 16 3 16 46 42 179 5 6
Jimmy Herron R 24 CF 374 332 39 77 13 3 8 35 32 77 10 9
Bret Boswell L 26 2B 469 432 53 95 15 2 17 48 29 163 5 7
Drew Butera R 37 C 215 192 23 39 10 1 3 20 17 56 0 0
Ian Desmond R 35 LF 471 430 59 105 21 5 15 58 34 115 8 4
Matt McLaughlin R 25 2B 400 358 38 83 15 1 2 24 32 101 8 10
Drew Weeks R 28 LF 443 405 52 100 19 4 13 48 28 103 6 8
Luke Morgan R 25 RF 352 318 35 69 15 4 3 22 29 106 10 4
Matt Hearn L 25 CF 450 414 44 103 12 4 1 22 30 97 19 13
Casey Golden R 26 LF 432 385 50 71 13 1 18 46 31 204 10 5
Taylor Snyder R 26 SS 379 351 35 71 14 2 9 33 19 142 10 7
Manuel Melendez L 24 CF 553 523 56 132 17 6 6 41 18 93 16 13
Sean Bouchard R 25 LF 404 367 42 78 19 1 9 36 30 137 9 6

 

Batters – Advanced
Player BA OBP SLG OPS+ ISO BABIP RC/27 Def WAR No. 1 Comp
Trevor Story .273 .340 .521 110 .249 .336 6.8 6 4.0 Robby Thompson
Nolan Arenado .289 .354 .534 117 .245 .296 7.1 10 3.8 Aramis Ramirez
Colton Welker .282 .331 .445 91 .163 .334 5.6 3 1.3 Willy Aybar
Kevin Pillar .283 .317 .451 88 .168 .312 5.5 0 1.1 Garry Maddox
Charlie Blackmon .292 .352 .488 106 .196 .333 6.4 -5 1.1 Andy Van Slyke
Ryan McMahon .252 .324 .456 92 .205 .337 5.4 -1 1.1 Mat Gamel
Yonathan Daza .295 .331 .413 84 .118 .348 5.1 2 0.9 Skip Schumaker
Raimel Tapia .294 .337 .436 91 .141 .363 5.8 2 0.8 David DeJesus
Dom Nuñez .216 .313 .389 74 .172 .279 4.2 4 0.7 Chad Kreuter
David Dahl .277 .325 .497 101 .221 .354 6.0 -2 0.7 Brant Brown
Garrett Hampson .260 .317 .400 77 .140 .336 4.9 1 0.7 Mike Fontenot
Ryan Vilade .254 .313 .379 72 .125 .317 4.2 9 0.6 Denny Hocking
Mike Gerber .254 .310 .469 90 .214 .336 5.2 -4 0.6 Dan Briggs
Brendan Rodgers .256 .306 .423 79 .167 .309 4.7 3 0.6 Kelly Heath
Brian Serven .219 .280 .366 59 .147 .274 3.3 9 0.4 Blake Barthol
Chris Owings .249 .301 .418 77 .169 .319 4.6 2 0.4 Gookie Dawkins
Eric Stamets .221 .283 .349 57 .128 .293 3.7 7 0.3 Erick Monzon
Tony Wolters .238 .315 .316 59 .078 .306 3.5 5 0.1 Doug Newstrom
Connor Joe .243 .336 .410 85 .167 .301 4.8 1 0.1 Chris Jelic
Josh Fuentes .268 .298 .426 77 .157 .346 4.7 7 0.1 Jose Leon
Chris Rabago .216 .290 .319 52 .103 .289 3.2 5 0.0 Paul Hoover
Max George .208 .303 .342 61 .134 .271 3.6 0 0.0 Brian Moon
Elias Díaz .267 .315 .375 71 .108 .310 4.4 -3 0.0 Raul Chavez
Jose Briceno .227 .264 .385 59 .158 .272 3.6 2 -0.1 Jason Brown
Alan Trejo .239 .281 .370 60 .130 .306 3.5 6 -0.1 Travis Hanson
Kelby Tomlinson .249 .307 .296 52 .048 .320 3.2 6 -0.2 Chico Ruiz
Daniel Murphy .274 .324 .433 86 .158 .301 5.2 -3 -0.3 Rich Aurilia
Austin Bernard .173 .271 .295 41 .123 .270 2.6 4 -0.3 Jerrey Thurston
Sam Hilliard .231 .294 .429 77 .197 .325 4.5 0 -0.4 Andy Tomberlin
Matt Kemp .269 .321 .457 91 .188 .325 5.4 -8 -0.4 Walt Dropo
Vince Fernandez .205 .291 .391 68 .186 .337 3.7 5 -0.5 Juan Williams
Jimmy Herron .232 .306 .361 66 .130 .279 3.6 -1 -0.5 Lee Grimes
Bret Boswell .220 .274 .382 61 .162 .310 3.4 4 -0.5 Paul Gonzalez
Drew Butera .203 .268 .313 44 .109 .271 2.8 -1 -0.6 Tony Pena
Ian Desmond .244 .302 .421 78 .177 .300 4.5 -5 -0.8 Dan Gladden
Matt McLaughlin .232 .302 .296 51 .064 .318 2.8 -1 -1.3 Chris Gutierrez
Drew Weeks .247 .302 .410 75 .163 .301 4.2 -8 -1.3 Fletcher Bates
Luke Morgan .217 .286 .318 50 .101 .316 3.2 -1 -1.4 Scott Little
Matt Hearn .249 .303 .304 52 .056 .323 3.1 -2 -1.4 Trench Davis
Casey Golden .184 .265 .364 54 .179 .325 3.2 1 -1.4 Keith Kimsey
Taylor Snyder .202 .249 .330 43 .128 .310 2.7 -1 -1.5 Jake Wald
Manuel Melendez .252 .282 .342 55 .090 .297 3.3 -1 -1.6 Clay Timpner
Sean Bouchard .213 .275 .343 53 .131 .312 3.2 -1 -1.6 Gary Crabtree

 

Pitchers – Standard
Player T Age W L ERA G GS IP H ER HR BB SO FIP
Germán Márquez R 26 13 9 4.29 32 32 186.7 191 89 28 49 200 3.87
Kyle Freeland L 28 9 8 5.07 29 29 149.0 169 84 22 58 113 4.87
Jon Gray R 29 9 8 5.05 25 25 133.7 147 75 22 47 130 4.52
Antonio Senzatela R 26 10 11 5.51 32 28 150.3 175 92 24 58 103 5.16
Antonio Santos R 24 6 6 5.49 23 21 114.7 133 70 22 33 89 5.17
Jeff Hoffman R 28 8 8 5.66 31 21 117.7 130 74 20 53 115 4.94
Scott Oberg R 31 4 2 3.88 55 0 55.7 51 24 6 21 58 3.74
Wes Parsons R 28 4 4 5.27 27 10 85.3 93 50 14 38 75 5.07
Brandon Gold R 26 8 9 5.93 25 25 133.7 177 88 27 31 88 5.36
Ryan Rolison L 23 6 6 5.68 19 19 90.3 100 57 17 39 76 5.44
Carlos Estévez R 28 4 3 4.64 67 0 66.0 66 34 11 25 75 4.30
Peter Lambert R 24 7 8 6.15 29 29 142.0 170 97 30 49 101 5.71
Mychal Givens R 31 4 3 4.63 56 0 58.3 51 30 10 24 74 4.26
Heath Holder R 28 5 5 5.54 35 7 79.7 85 49 14 39 77 5.19
Jairo Díaz R 30 4 4 4.75 62 0 60.7 61 32 7 31 60 4.43
Matt Pierpont R 30 3 3 4.57 35 0 45.3 46 23 6 20 42 4.57
Ashton Goudeau R 28 4 4 5.71 21 11 69.3 81 44 13 23 53 5.26
Dereck Rodríguez R 29 6 7 6.12 25 18 103.0 124 70 22 37 83 5.57
Tommy Doyle R 25 5 4 4.85 44 0 42.7 43 23 6 20 41 4.70
Daniel Bard R 36 6 5 4.83 41 0 41.0 36 22 5 26 47 4.74
Phillip Diehl L 26 3 2 5.13 44 1 59.7 61 34 10 25 61 4.77
Matt Dennis R 26 7 9 6.27 29 20 117.7 152 82 23 49 76 5.86
Ben Bowden L 26 3 3 5.07 50 0 49.7 44 28 9 32 67 4.89
Chi Chi González R 29 5 7 6.42 23 19 102.3 117 73 21 54 79 6.03
Yency Almonte R 27 4 3 5.32 67 0 69.3 73 41 11 38 64 5.21
Reid Humphreys R 26 2 2 5.24 40 0 34.3 34 20 5 19 34 4.93
Zac Rosscup L 33 0 0 5.24 24 0 22.3 20 13 4 16 29 5.19
Wade Davis R 35 3 3 5.45 43 0 38.0 36 23 6 23 42 5.00
Chad Smith R 26 3 3 5.53 37 0 40.7 40 25 4 32 39 5.12
Harrison Musgrave L 29 2 3 6.35 29 7 56.7 62 40 12 31 51 5.88
Jose Mujica R 25 2 3 6.75 10 8 41.3 55 31 9 17 19 6.47
Tyler Kinley R 30 3 3 5.76 61 0 54.7 52 35 9 41 61 5.50
Tim Collins L 31 3 3 5.94 46 0 36.3 36 24 6 28 38 5.63
James Pazos L 30 2 3 5.92 49 0 48.7 54 32 9 27 42 5.71
AJ Ramos R 34 2 2 6.31 29 0 25.7 27 18 5 18 27 5.83
Rayan González R 30 2 3 5.98 40 0 43.7 46 29 7 31 38 5.86
Joe Harvey R 29 2 2 6.23 37 0 39.0 40 27 8 26 41 5.90
Jesus Tinoco R 26 3 3 6.05 55 0 61.0 69 41 11 37 50 5.85
Brian Gonzalez L 25 4 5 6.80 24 12 83.3 104 63 19 39 61 6.23
Justin Lawrence R 26 2 3 6.37 46 0 41.0 43 29 5 37 35 5.98
Nelson Gonzalez R 31 1 2 7.02 18 3 41.0 48 32 10 27 35 6.77
Tim Melville R 31 6 9 7.03 23 18 96.0 115 75 25 50 79 6.64
Ryan Castellani R 25 5 8 7.44 21 20 90.7 107 75 21 67 69 7.08

 

Pitchers – Advanced
Player K/9 BB/9 HR/9 BB% K% BABIP ERA+ ERA- WAR No. 1 Comp
Germán Márquez 9.6 2.4 1.4 6.2% 25.2% .319 120 83 3.5 Bob Rush
Kyle Freeland 6.8 3.5 1.3 8.7% 16.9% .313 101 99 1.8 Johnny Schmitz
Jon Gray 8.8 3.2 1.5 8.0% 22.0% .323 102 98 1.7 Mike Krukow
Antonio Senzatela 6.2 3.5 1.4 8.6% 15.2% .310 93 107 1.3 John Denny
Antonio Santos 7.0 2.6 1.7 6.5% 17.5% .311 94 107 0.9 Rick Wise
Jeff Hoffman 8.8 4.1 1.5 9.9% 21.5% .324 91 110 0.8 Bill Swift
Scott Oberg 9.4 3.4 1.0 8.9% 24.5% .300 132 75 0.8 Greg Minton
Wes Parsons 7.9 4.0 1.5 9.8% 19.4% .311 97 103 0.8 Russ Bauers
Brandon Gold 5.9 2.1 1.8 5.1% 14.5% .332 87 115 0.7 Lary Sorensen
Ryan Rolison 7.6 3.9 1.7 9.5% 18.6% .306 91 110 0.7 Mike Miller
Carlos Estévez 10.2 3.4 1.5 8.7% 26.1% .316 111 90 0.5 Jerry Dipoto
Peter Lambert 6.4 3.1 1.9 7.6% 15.7% .308 84 120 0.5 John Mitchell
Mychal Givens 11.4 3.7 1.5 9.6% 29.6% .295 111 90 0.5 Gregg Olson
Heath Holder 8.7 4.4 1.6 10.8% 21.3% .313 93 108 0.4 Tony Fiore
Jairo Díaz 8.9 4.6 1.0 11.3% 21.9% .314 108 92 0.4 Doug Sisk
Matt Pierpont 8.3 4.0 1.2 9.9% 20.8% .305 113 89 0.3 Ed Farmer
Ashton Goudeau 6.9 3.0 1.7 7.4% 17.0% .312 90 111 0.3 Bill Swaggerty
Dereck Rodríguez 7.3 3.2 1.9 7.9% 17.8% .319 84 119 0.3 Ownie Carroll
Tommy Doyle 8.6 4.2 1.3 10.5% 21.5% .306 106 94 0.2 Newt Kimball
Daniel Bard 10.3 5.7 1.1 13.9% 25.1% .298 106 94 0.2 Ryne Duren
Phillip Diehl 9.2 3.8 1.5 9.4% 23.0% .309 100 100 0.2 Juan Agosto
Matt Dennis 5.8 3.7 1.8 8.9% 13.8% .325 82 122 0.2 Bill Swift
Ben Bowden 12.1 5.8 1.6 14.3% 29.9% .307 101 99 0.2 Darren Oliver
Chi Chi González 6.9 4.7 1.8 11.4% 16.6% .304 80 125 0.1 Don Schwall
Yency Almonte 8.3 4.9 1.4 11.9% 20.1% .308 97 104 0.1 Bill Kelso
Reid Humphreys 8.9 5.0 1.3 12.2% 21.8% .302 98 102 0.1 Bill Zuber
Zac Rosscup 11.7 6.4 1.6 15.5% 28.2% .302 98 102 0.0 Marshall Bridges
Wade Davis 9.9 5.4 1.4 13.3% 24.3% .300 94 106 0.0 Don Aase
Chad Smith 8.6 7.1 0.9 16.5% 20.1% .310 93 108 0.0 Newt Kimball
Harrison Musgrave 8.1 4.9 1.9 11.9% 19.5% .303 81 124 -0.1 Dean Stone
Jose Mujica 4.1 3.7 2.0 8.8% 9.8% .313 76 131 -0.1 Mike Nagy
Tyler Kinley 10.0 6.8 1.5 16.0% 23.8% .303 89 112 -0.1 Ted Abernathy
Tim Collins 9.4 6.9 1.5 16.3% 22.1% .303 86 116 -0.1 Arnold Earley
James Pazos 7.8 5.0 1.7 11.9% 18.6% .310 87 115 -0.2 Jim Brewer
AJ Ramos 9.5 6.3 1.8 14.9% 22.3% .314 81 123 -0.2 Marshall Bridges
Rayan González 7.8 6.4 1.4 14.9% 18.3% .302 86 116 -0.2 Ted Abernathy
Joe Harvey 9.5 6.0 1.8 14.3% 22.5% .305 83 121 -0.2 Newt Kimball
Jesus Tinoco 7.4 5.5 1.6 12.9% 17.4% .312 85 118 -0.3 Ron Willis
Brian Gonzalez 6.6 4.2 2.1 10.0% 15.6% .317 76 132 -0.3 Mark Brandenburg
Justin Lawrence 7.7 8.1 1.1 18.2% 17.2% .309 81 124 -0.3 Ken Wright
Nelson Gonzalez 7.7 5.9 2.2 13.7% 17.8% .309 73 137 -0.3 Jerry Johnson
Tim Melville 7.4 4.7 2.3 11.1% 17.5% .308 73 137 -0.4 Dick Fowler
Ryan Castellani 6.8 6.7 2.1 15.1% 15.5% .305 69 145 -0.7 Rod Boxberger

Players are listed with their most recent teams wherever possible. This includes players who are unsigned, players who will miss 2021 due to injury, and players who were released in 2020. So yes, if you see Joe Schmoe, who quit baseball back in August to form a Finnish industrial death metal fourth-wave ska J-pop band, he’s still listed here intentionally.

Both hitters and pitchers are ranked by projected zWAR, which is to say, WAR values as calculated by me, Dan Szymborski, whose surname is spelled with a z. WAR values might differ slightly from those which appear in the full release of ZiPS. Finally, I will advise anyone against — and might karate chop anyone guilty of — merely adding up WAR totals on a depth chart to produce projected team WAR. ZiPS is assuming that the designated hitter will continue in force in 2021; if it does not, there will be widespread minor adjustments across the board come April.

ZiPS is agnostic about future playing time by design. For more information about ZiPS, please refer to this article, or get angry at Dan on Twitter or something.





Dan Szymborski is a senior writer for FanGraphs and the developer of the ZiPS projection system. He was a writer for ESPN.com from 2010-2018, a regular guest on a number of radio shows and podcasts, and a voting BBWAA member. He also maintains a terrible Twitter account at @DSzymborski.

38 Comments
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Mahoney
5 years ago

So after Story and Arenado, the Rockies’ best position player projection for 2021 is a 23-year-old 45 prospect who has one season above A ball.

Nice.

Stevil
5 years ago

Colorado is one of the most puzzling teams in baseball. They seem to have little or no faith in their prospects, which is fine if they at least traded them for someone they do believe in. But they don’t do that, either. They’ve already lost Tauchman, Murphy, Mundell, and Ramos for nothing and without a hard look; they’re currently snubbing Rodgers and Daza, and, for some reason, still seem to think Tapia is an answer for the outfield. Fuentes was the PCL MVP in 2018 and he was rewarded with another season in AAA, having only seen minimal playing time in wake of injuries. Are they finally going to give him an opportunity, or seek out another old veteran?

This organization needs an overhaul.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  Stevil

They have one of the worst 5 front offices in baseball, easily, and are in contention for the worst, but I don’t think that’s quite fair. I don’t know who Mundell and Ramos are, Rodgers almost certainly would be starting if he wasn’t hurt all the time, and Daza got 100 PAs this year and looked almost impossibly bad. Fuentes is blocked by Arenado (his cousin) and wasn’t exactly a hot prospect to trade. Giving up Tauchman and Murphy was pretty bad though, and they really should have traded Hoffman before literally today (back when he had actual trade value) because he is a terrible fit for that home ballpark.

Colorado’s problem appears to be, aside from the fact that they aren’t really above average in any area, that they make truly bad decisions with spending money. They get really cheap at bad times and spend a lot on guy who do not work out. They’d probably be a .500 team regularly if they got even a league-average return (1 win per $8M) on their free agent / extension investments

pedeysRSox
5 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Ramos is Roberto Ramos who hit very well in the KBO this last season after being released to play for the LG Twins of the KBO.

Stevil
5 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Mundell and Ramos raked in AAA, and though it was AAA (and Ramos was a bit K-prone), the point was that they never even got a chance despite there being opportunities.

Daza got 105 inconsistent PAs last season. He didn’t play this season, so you couldn’t have seen him. Like Mundell and Ramos, he hit AAA extremely well, but he also offers excellent defense–unlike Tapia–and controls the zone.

The Rockies literally had enough prospects in the upper-minors deserving of an opportunity, along with players on the bench, to field an interesting team while rebuilding had they chosen to go that route. Fuentes would have presumably taken 3B in that scenario. He barely got a look this season and it was at 1B.

Small sample sizes, no sample sizes… whatever. What the Rockies are doing isn’t positive.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  Stevil

So I just looked up Mundell and Ramos. They both look like org filler. The Rockies are not a good organization but I do not see how this is something to get worked up over about.

Stevil
5 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Did you conclude that they were organization filler while you weren’t watching Daza look ‘impossibly bad’?

Seriously, the point is that there’s a pattern of bad process and it’s not just their choice of free agent relievers.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  Stevil

They’re first basemen who are old for their level and have statistical red flags all over the place. If they had Kevin Cron hanging out and not getting a chance, that’s a different story, but guys like that are everywhere and they almost never pan out.

Stevil
5 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Way to miss the point. Again.

They were two of many prospects that have been snubbed in favor of bad free agent signings or squeezed out because of puzzling infatuations with players that have limited upsides. You’re singling them out because you think it fits your nitpicking narrative, but both were top-25 prospects just 2-3 years ago (and not that ‘old’ for their level). So are/were Tauchman, Murphy, Daza, Rodgers, and Fuentes… is it really that hard to see the pattern?

And what more could you have possibly asked of those two? They pretty much did everything asked of them, and again, my problem is with the process/approach of their front office. If you agree that Colorado isn’t a well-run organization, this should be hard to follow.

But feel free to focus on just Ramos and Mundell, dismiss them despite having earned, yet never given, an opportunity, and simultaneously blast Colorado for poor management.

Happy Thanksgiving.

Johnnie TMember since 2024
5 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Hey @sadtrombone, interesting that you identified them as one of the 5 worst front offices in baseball. Who are your other candidates?

I have seen a number of foolish moves (like the Dansby Swanson or Jerred Kelenic trades) but not too much wholesale incompetence, so I am really interested in your thoughts.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  Johnnie T

I mostly just said bottom 5 because the Rangers’ front office is about equally bad. Neither of them are very good, and I’m not sure whoever is #3 from the bottom is close to those two.

Generally, most teams are good at something. The other ones I’d put near the bottom all do something well. The Reds FO has mostly been bad, except that they have made huge, huge moves in both acquiring pitchers and rebuilding their pitching development system. The Tigers are pretty bad and have made some awful non-moves, but I really like their farm system right now. The Royals are pretty bad in the player acquisition and development phase–they’re probably third from the bottom on that–but the FO has invested a lot in analytics for advance scouting. The Blue Jays FO team seems hopelessly overmatched when it comes to trades and free agents but they’ve drafted well and they are still relatively new.

Ironically, I would guess both the Rockies and the Rangers would be about middle of the pack 15 years ago, potentially even top third. Front offices right now are so much better than they used to be; the last 8 years or so has seen a lot of the FOs getting replaced by alumni from the Astros, Rays, Red Sox, and Cleveland. Dave Stewart, Zduriencik, Ruben Amaro…those guys were light years worse than what we have right now. Walt Jocketty did okay with the Cards and was hopelessly outmatched with the Reds, because everyone else got so much better. Kenny Williams built a legitimate winner but was totally left in the dust by the time he turned over full control to Hahn. Remember Terry Ryan? Neal Huntington was considered a Top 5 GM not too long ago and might get a chance again, but right now he’s out of baseball and not seen as a top candidate.

Antonio BananasMember since 2026
5 years ago
Reply to  sadtrombone

Given the absurdly long development time of baseball, how long do you think it takes for an accurate evaluation? Don’t you also have to consider if it’s an in house successor vs wholesale change? Ownership influence as well is considered I assume?

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago

There are two issues here that you’re touching on.

1) Very rarely do teams leave the farm system completely barren. When Dipoto took over the Mariners, or Eppler took over the Angels, or Shapiro and Atkins took over the Blue Jays, the farm system was not good. But when Cherington took over the Pirates, he inherited Ke’Bryan Hayes, Travis Swaggerty, and Quinn Priester. Who gets “credit” for their success? Hayes almost certainly goes to Huntington; the others aren’t as clear. Zaidi didn’t draft Joey Bart or Ramos, and didn’t sign Luciano.

2) The length of time–even when a new front office takes over a completely empty farm system, it just takes time. You can sometimes tell by how the farm system is doing in the interim but it’s not the same.
Two extreme cases in that vein, one where you can already tell an FO is good at something and one where you absolutely cannot:
A. The Blue Jays front office team selected Biggio, Bichette, and Pearson; but their guys moved pretty quickly. And that’s probably the soonest you can expect your guys to make it to the majors.
B. The now-fired Angels’ front office team kind of got a raw deal because he got fired before all but maybe one or two of his picks made it to the majors, partly because he kept picking the youngest possible high schoolers.

All that said, Brdich worked his way up through the Rockies system and has been in charge since 2014 and Daniels has been in charge for something like 12-15 years now. Brdich might have some excuses but the interim reports aren’t good, and Daniels has zero.

BillMember since 2017
5 years ago

My parents say it is ok for me to look at the projected WAR for the rockies’ left fielders. Please respond.

drewsylvaniaMember since 2019
5 years ago
Reply to  Bill

The RIAA, in their incompetence, forgot to redact Desmond’s WAR number in the liner notes.

john0lerude
5 years ago
Reply to  Dan Szymborski

Not even Tony LaRussa?

tdouglas
5 years ago
Reply to  john0lerude

His vision would be too blurry to focus, anyway.

PhilMember since 2016
5 years ago

So, not 94 wins then?

VinnieDaGooch
5 years ago

The Hoffman for Stephenson trade that just went down is so interesting. I feel like both pitchers have the potential to have a big breakout year and make the deal look like a massive steal

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  VinnieDaGooch

Hoffman is going to be great if you can rebuild his confidence after pitching in Colorado. He needed to get out for a while. Stephenson fits the mode that the Rockies like–huge stuff, questionable command–and it probably can’t hurt for them to give him a shot, but I suspect the Reds and their excellent pitching coaches / coordinators both have more to work with and are more likely to get what they can out of Hoffman.

Tulo2low
5 years ago

I’ve been a serious Colorado fan for 21 years, but I’ve never felt worse about this organization than I do now. Consistently finishing 4th or 5th in the NL West during the oughts was still enjoyable because you could root for the players and, while they did make some terrible signings, the front office showed flashes of rational thought. This new strategy of consistently surrounding your stars with below replacement level talent is extremely frustrating. I can only imagine how Arenado and Trevor must feel.

free-range turducken
5 years ago

Correction – Ian Desmond is indeed coming off his best season in Colorado, but you showed his 2019 numbers (86 wRC+ and -0.3 WAR). Desmond increased his WAR to 0.0 in 2020.

r24j
5 years ago

The worst run organization in baseball. Down to Low-A where prospects are fed leftovers from the night before (when all other teams cater new meals daily). They don’t do anything. They don’t spend a lot of money, they don’t invest in analytics or player development. They simply exist. And when they do make headlines it’s for ticking off the face of the franchise. Even in past years, other poorly run orgs (Tigers, White Sox, etc.) have picked up and made some kind of exciting developments. There’s no philosophy, no message, someone please buy and overhaul this team.

carterMember since 2020
5 years ago
Reply to  r24j

With you on this. I’d go as far as to say all sports. They are happy just making money, selling a lot of beer, having a large regional audience and going. Daily fantasy people tuning in for Coors helps a little too.

Antonio BananasMember since 2026
5 years ago

What could they get if they traded:

Arenado
Story
Marquez
Freeland
Gray
Senzatela

Plus a likely #1 pick? Three 60 FVs, two 50 FVs, eight 40+ FVs?

Then sign short term stopgaps for 2 years.

Sign a few 3 WAR FAs in 2023 and maybe be competitive? Jesus.

sadtromboneMember since 2020
5 years ago

Arenado: Probably nothing. With the injury, his contract is currently underwater.

Story: Unclear. He’s only got one year left on his contract. Lindor is also on the market and he’s probably better. Maybe an FV45+, and an FV40 or two? Or a 45 and a 40+?

Gray: You might be able to get Gary Sanchez for him if you gave up an FV40 prospect with him. Somehow that doesn’t seem appealing. Maybe you could get a 40+ guy back. Maybe.

Marquez: This would be the real prize. 4-win guy signed for about $33M for 3 years, plus an affordable option year. He compares pretty favorable to Jose Quintana a few years back and while the Cubs overpaid you might be able to a really nice headliner…an FV55, perhaps. Or Jo Adell or CJ Abrams if you’re dreaming big.

Freeland: Probably a 45 and some other prospects, maybe a couple of FV40s. Cost-effective #4 starter.

Senzatela: #5 starter. Probably an FV40+.

I think the game plan would probably be (1) trade Marquez because he’s very valuable, (2) trade Story because otherwise you’ll lose him, (3) keep Freeland and Senzatela and Gray, hope they do well and a team wants to acquire them at the deadline, (4) trade Arenado after he has demonstrated his shoulder is okay and he opts-in (he won’t have trade protection then) or watch him walk if he opts out.

NATS FanMember since 2018
5 years ago

David Dejesus is far from a bad comp! More than one 3 and 4 War seasons and a bunch of 2s if I’m recalling correctly. Andy Van Slyke was a better player than Charlie Blackmon in his first ten seasons. Unfortunately he fell apart in his 11-12th season then left the game shortly thereafter. Blackmons entering year 11, so you hope its better than Van Slyke at the same point. but 1.5 WAR is about the same i guess.

NATS FanMember since 2018
5 years ago

They do have one of the better starting pitching staffs for the Rockies over their entire history.

Bill
5 years ago

Bad owner, horrible GM and a clueless manager! A mission statement that reads: Sign old over priced, past prime free agents. Block cheaper more productive rookies and bury them on the bench. Sign one or two franchise players and piss them off by never actually trying to win. Eventually let everyone walk without getting anything in return.
Solution: Sell the team and clean out the front office. Hire Theo, he loves this type of challenge!

Stevil
5 years ago
Reply to  Bill

They traded Nevin and Vavra (and a PTBNL or cash), two of their best prospects, for a year and a month of Givens. Ditching infielders is hardly shocking, but you’d think they’d target pitchers, catchers, or outfielders with more control & that could actually make a difference, or recognize that a rebuild is necessary and keep them around to see if they can be apart of a more promising future.

It’s almost as if they’re trying to drive the organization into the ground.

carterMember since 2020
5 years ago

While I agree with the people saying the Rockies are bad, in general, I still think the projection systems are not accurate when it comes to the Rockies hitters. Arenado looked pretty poor last year while playing through an injury, but you cannot tell me that he has been only 11% better than average hitter for his career, or story with a 114 wRC+ or Blackmon projected to be literally average. I know it is one team, but the entire NL west in my opinion has a screwed up wRC+ due to what happens when players leave elevation. I do not know how you could fix it, but that still doesn’t make it right.

gtagomoriMember since 2017
5 years ago

Ouch! Those comps are just horrible.

john0lerude
5 years ago

Daniel Bard?? That’s a name I haven’t heard in a long time

third37Member since 2020
5 years ago

Please excuse my ignorance, but why do so many players have so many PAs and IPs? Is this best-case scenario?

AaronsAronMember since 2024
5 years ago
Reply to  third37

Yeah, it is treating it as if all the players would win over the job more or less. There are way too many PAs per position obviously at the moment, but as the offseason moves along and roles become more defined, the PAs will dwindle down to the proper number.

MikeD
5 years ago

A perplexing organization. Several years back, heading into 2017, I had the Rockies as one of the teams that looked ascendant, meaning they were about to take a big step forward and would continue to rise due to a strong farm system. They’ve mismanaged their assets and now are a team that seems completely lost. It happened rapidly.

hombremomento
5 years ago

The Rockies are gonna be turning to the Broncos for players soon enough. The running backs might make a better outfield